WEBVTT - How the Internet Happened

0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:06.920
<v Speaker 1>How the Internet Happened, the new book that I am

0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:09.920
<v Speaker 1>just loving. What's going on. I'm Rich Damiro. This is

0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:13.159
<v Speaker 1>Rich on Tech. Joining me today is Brian McCullough. He

0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:15.720
<v Speaker 1>is the author of a new book called How the

0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:19.200
<v Speaker 1>Internet Happened. It's available today. Man, I've been reading this

0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.560
<v Speaker 1>and it is just fascinating. It's basically the world that

0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.599
<v Speaker 1>I live through the Internet bubble, the burst, and I

0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.560
<v Speaker 1>basically get to relive all of my college and post

0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:31.000
<v Speaker 1>college years through this book.

0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:33.159
<v Speaker 2>Brian, thanks so much for joining me this morning to

0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:33.840
<v Speaker 2>talk about the book.

0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:35.320
<v Speaker 3>Oh, Rich, thanks for having me on.

0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:36.120
<v Speaker 2>So Brian.

0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.040
<v Speaker 1>You also host the Tech Meme Ride Home podcast, which

0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.920
<v Speaker 1>is literally the first thing I listened to every day

0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:44.319
<v Speaker 1>on my way to work, which I know it's called

0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:47.200
<v Speaker 1>the ride home, but it's also for me the ride

0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:48.040
<v Speaker 1>in as well.

0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:48.640
<v Speaker 2>Is that Okay?

0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, And you know, like thirty

0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.160
<v Speaker 3>percent of the audiences overseas, so god knows what part

0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:55.800
<v Speaker 3>of their day part they listen.

0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Then you also host the Internet History podcast. Tell me

0:00:58.920 --> 0:00:59.320
<v Speaker 2>about that?

0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Well, essentially the Internet History Podcast is how we

0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:07.120
<v Speaker 3>got the book. Because I'm actually a tech guy myself.

0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:09.720
<v Speaker 3>I founded three different web companies, and I'm used to

0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:11.800
<v Speaker 3>immediate feedback, So when I had this idea to write

0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.920
<v Speaker 3>this book, I wasn't used to going away in a

0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.280
<v Speaker 3>room and maybe three or four years later something coming

0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:20.320
<v Speaker 3>out of it. So as I was doing research and

0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:24.600
<v Speaker 3>getting interviews with primary sources, I'm recording them and I

0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:26.800
<v Speaker 3>just thought to myself, well why not throw them out

0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:31.399
<v Speaker 3>on the web as a podcast. And the podcast almost

0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.320
<v Speaker 3>took off and made me forget about doing the book,

0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:35.560
<v Speaker 3>But then it all came full circle and the books

0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:36.040
<v Speaker 3>out today.

0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:38.840
<v Speaker 1>I love the journey that you take readers on in

0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.280
<v Speaker 1>the book because it is how the Internet happened. And

0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:44.320
<v Speaker 1>if you remember any of these little things, these milestones

0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:48.360
<v Speaker 1>that happened over the years, like Netflix starting and Blockbusters

0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:53.400
<v Speaker 1>sort of starting their rival to that, and Netscape and Yahoo,

0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.160
<v Speaker 1>it really is a great ride that you bring them on.

0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.680
<v Speaker 1>How did you kind of come up with the way

0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:00.480
<v Speaker 1>you were going to do this book?

0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:03.760
<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean, in a way, the title could almost

0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:05.600
<v Speaker 3>be how the Internet happened to us. You know, there

0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.680
<v Speaker 3>have been other well done history books going back to

0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:12.040
<v Speaker 3>the arpaet and how the Internet itself, you know, was

0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:15.600
<v Speaker 3>came out of the military and academia and things like that.

0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:17.840
<v Speaker 3>But what I was interested in is, you know, what

0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.800
<v Speaker 3>has been more disruptive is the word that everyone likes

0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.600
<v Speaker 3>to use, but what's been the biggest revolution in all

0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.840
<v Speaker 3>of our daily lives? So I wanted to talk about

0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.359
<v Speaker 3>the era when the Internet started happening to us. And

0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:33.440
<v Speaker 3>you know, even things like you know, my wife is like, oh,

0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:35.880
<v Speaker 3>tell talk about Excite. Excite was where I got my

0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:39.400
<v Speaker 3>first email address, or you know, people always say, tell

0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:43.480
<v Speaker 3>us about GeoCities or Napster, and people have these really

0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:49.400
<v Speaker 3>formative personal connections to these companies and this technology. And

0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:51.960
<v Speaker 3>even though you know there's individual books about all these

0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.040
<v Speaker 3>different companies, I thought no one had put it all

0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:57.720
<v Speaker 3>together in one sort of narrative. And even though it

0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.200
<v Speaker 3>is essentially just the A led to b Let to

0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:04.359
<v Speaker 3>see you, I think you can see how it infiltrated

0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:06.280
<v Speaker 3>basically all of modern life.

0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.360
<v Speaker 1>And what I love about the story that you tell

0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.880
<v Speaker 1>is two things. Number One, you did this in a

0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.640
<v Speaker 1>very consumer friendly way where anyone can understand what happened

0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.360
<v Speaker 1>and kind of see like what the founders were thinking

0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:21.480
<v Speaker 1>and what the kind of results of their actions were

0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:23.560
<v Speaker 1>to the average person like me, and you like.

0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.800
<v Speaker 3>You said, Yeah, I was always thinking of my dad,

0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.480
<v Speaker 3>keeping my dad in mind. You know, here's how you

0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:31.760
<v Speaker 3>got a supercomputer in your pocket. But then also, you know,

0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:35.400
<v Speaker 3>I talked to a lot of kids in air quotes,

0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.480
<v Speaker 3>people entering the tech industry today, twenty four, twenty five,

0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.840
<v Speaker 3>twenty six years old. And you know, if you're twenty six,

0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:45.320
<v Speaker 3>you maybe never heard a modem dial up sound. You know,

0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.680
<v Speaker 3>a Facebook is almost fifteen years old, so people might

0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.040
<v Speaker 3>not remember there was a MySpace before Facebook and things

0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:53.080
<v Speaker 3>like that. That's that's what I wanted to try to capture.

0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:55.840
<v Speaker 3>The industry itself is not good about its own history

0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:59.320
<v Speaker 3>because everybody's always focused on what's next, what's next, the new,

0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:01.360
<v Speaker 3>the next version in the next gadget, that sort of thing.

0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.040
<v Speaker 3>But there's a lot of valuable lessons in looking back

0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.760
<v Speaker 3>as at like I said, at the A led to

0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:10.040
<v Speaker 3>B led to C even to even give you a

0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:11.680
<v Speaker 3>hint about what might be coming next.

0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.720
<v Speaker 1>It all starts with Netscape, right, And I remember downloading Netscape,

0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:18.440
<v Speaker 1>and then of course we all switched to Firefox, and

0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:21.880
<v Speaker 1>then of course we all switched to Chrome. So tell

0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.840
<v Speaker 1>me about how Netscape kind of the word you use,

0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:27.599
<v Speaker 1>they let the riff raff in right.

0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:30.760
<v Speaker 3>Yes, because you know he he denies it. But Tim

0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:34.039
<v Speaker 3>berners Lee, who invented the Worldwide Web, originally really conceived

0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:38.640
<v Speaker 3>of it as an academic sort of tool. And the

0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.320
<v Speaker 3>kids at the University of Illinois, among them Mark Andresen,

0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:46.080
<v Speaker 3>they really conceived of it as this kind of sexy,

0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:50.720
<v Speaker 3>sort of new kind of medium that could have newspapers

0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:56.080
<v Speaker 3>and movies and you know, videos and things. So essentially

0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.040
<v Speaker 3>the thing that the Netscape browser did, it was sort

0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.080
<v Speaker 3>of a chicken and an egg. It was a lot

0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.360
<v Speaker 3>of people's first introduction to the web, and so they

0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:06.440
<v Speaker 3>would get on a Netscape browser, try the web for

0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:08.840
<v Speaker 3>the first time, see all this cool stuff that was

0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:12.320
<v Speaker 3>suddenly popping up, and then they themselves wanted to go

0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.520
<v Speaker 3>off and create some of this cool stuff. So Netscape

0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:19.520
<v Speaker 3>both made the Web mainstream and was mainstreamed by the

0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:20.640
<v Speaker 3>Web being mainstream.

0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:22.200
<v Speaker 2>And I'll never forget.

0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.160
<v Speaker 1>And I, like I said, Brian, when you're when I'm

0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.200
<v Speaker 1>reading this book, I felt like you were inside my

0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.600
<v Speaker 1>brain because everything in this book sort of happened to

0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:31.200
<v Speaker 1>me as I went along. But I'll never forget. I

0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:34.880
<v Speaker 1>had AOL and I remember going to this AOL sort

0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:38.320
<v Speaker 1>of portal that said the world Wide Web is coming soon.

0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.240
<v Speaker 1>Because AOL was not the Web, right, but they had

0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:43.960
<v Speaker 1>this little section of AOL that like you can kind

0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.520
<v Speaker 1>of access the Web through before they had a browser

0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:48.320
<v Speaker 1>built in. It was really crazy, and you talk about

0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:50.280
<v Speaker 1>that in the book, which I thought was really cool.

0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and this is another thing that, like people that

0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:56.640
<v Speaker 3>listened to the Internet History podcast, when I've done stories

0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:00.480
<v Speaker 3>or Sorry episodes on things like AOL, I would get

0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.159
<v Speaker 3>these tweets and emails saying thank you, I didn't actually

0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.479
<v Speaker 3>understand what AOL actually did, Like, if there's the Web,

0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:07.960
<v Speaker 3>why does AOL need to be there?

0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:08.839
<v Speaker 2>And I get it.

0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:11.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Again, if you're twenty six and the internet's just

0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.640
<v Speaker 3>always been around in the ether, things like an ISP

0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.000
<v Speaker 3>and a dial up modem and things like that, you

0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.039
<v Speaker 3>didn't understand what it was for.

0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:19.680
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah.

0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean the delineation between those things was tough at

0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.559
<v Speaker 1>a certain point in our lives. And you just nailed

0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.000
<v Speaker 1>it on the head when you said what is AOL for?

0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, realistically, they had a big struggle when they

0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:33.800
<v Speaker 1>went from being the way you got to the Internet

0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.680
<v Speaker 1>to oh wait, I don't really need this for the Internet, so.

0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:39.080
<v Speaker 3>Yes, But at the same time in the book, I

0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.000
<v Speaker 3>give them a ton of credit for they were the

0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:45.480
<v Speaker 3>training wheels for the Internet, which was a pejorative at

0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.080
<v Speaker 3>the time, but someone needed to do that. Someone needed

0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:51.240
<v Speaker 3>to train Americans how to live their lives online. And

0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.200
<v Speaker 3>we really we have to give aol and Steve Case

0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:55.640
<v Speaker 3>and all those guys a lot of credit for that.

0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, in the book, you debunk some of the Internet

0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.960
<v Speaker 1>lore that we all grew up with, like the eBay story.

0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:04.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to give it away, but I love

0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.760
<v Speaker 1>how you did that. And one theme that I kind

0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.560
<v Speaker 1>of noticed throughout the book is a lot of these

0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:12.920
<v Speaker 1>founders you know nowadays, I feel like, and maybe you

0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.320
<v Speaker 1>could speak to this more. I feel like founders today

0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.560
<v Speaker 1>have more lofty visions of things, whereas back in the

0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:20.640
<v Speaker 1>day they just seem kind of like crazy kids that

0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.520
<v Speaker 1>had a good idea, but not necessarily like a crazy

0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.400
<v Speaker 1>business plan and all the I you know, they didn't

0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:28.400
<v Speaker 1>sort of flush it out for ten years.

0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.320
<v Speaker 3>You know that's funny because I can even speak to

0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.440
<v Speaker 3>that as a three time founder myself. Anyone that's actually

0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:38.160
<v Speaker 3>been a company founder an entrepreneur knows that, yes, if

0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:40.720
<v Speaker 3>you're successful. You know, ten fifteen years later you can say, oh,

0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:43.400
<v Speaker 3>I was brilliant. I knew all along that this was no.

0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.240
<v Speaker 3>The reality is is a lot of it is, and

0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:48.120
<v Speaker 3>especially in this era when no one knew it was

0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:49.440
<v Speaker 3>going to work, it was a lot of it was

0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.480
<v Speaker 3>throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what stuck. And

0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:56.560
<v Speaker 3>I was very yeah, I purposely tried to capture some

0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.600
<v Speaker 3>of that because legitimately, even Jeff Bezos didn't know for

0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:03.160
<v Speaker 3>sure that people would want to buy books on the internet.

0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.120
<v Speaker 3>Once he proved that, he decided that people would buy

0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:08.440
<v Speaker 3>everything on the internet. But at the you know, if

0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.040
<v Speaker 3>you could get Bezos or anybody to be honest about

0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.200
<v Speaker 3>it and go back in time to their mindset twenty

0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.680
<v Speaker 3>years ago, they'd have to admit that they didn't necessarily

0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:17.400
<v Speaker 3>know what they were doing.

0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Do you have very specific numbers, dates, times, places? Was

0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.160
<v Speaker 1>that all tough to kind of dig up?

0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:26.720
<v Speaker 3>Well, you know what the hardest part is is we

0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:29.760
<v Speaker 3>think that now you know, in the Internet era, that

0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:32.800
<v Speaker 3>all information is there and it never goes away. It's not,

0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.160
<v Speaker 3>you can't erase it. There was a lot of stuff

0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.240
<v Speaker 3>from the nineties that you know, things like like Newsweek

0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.600
<v Speaker 3>their archives are all gone. There's a lot of magazines

0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.800
<v Speaker 3>like Industry Standard from the time gone. So there was

0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:47.240
<v Speaker 3>a lot of me actually going to the library what

0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:51.600
<v Speaker 3>and finding old copies of these business magazines and these

0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:55.440
<v Speaker 3>technology magazines and you know, Computer World and Computer Week

0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.679
<v Speaker 3>and things like that to actually find that, like you said,

0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.000
<v Speaker 3>the actual hard numbers and dates and stuff like that,

0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.160
<v Speaker 3>that legitimately real library research was required.

0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:07.160
<v Speaker 1>Wow, like old school, like microfiche or is that even

0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:07.560
<v Speaker 1>I did?

0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:09.839
<v Speaker 3>I did microfiche. Oh yeah, well, but you can put

0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:11.800
<v Speaker 3>it on your little thumb drive. So actually it's much

0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.160
<v Speaker 3>easier now. You just go and download, you know, a

0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.440
<v Speaker 3>whole year's worth of periodicals and you've got it on

0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.280
<v Speaker 3>your thumb drive to take home and pour through.

0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Brian, what's your favorite story you tell inside the book?

0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.679
<v Speaker 3>I would say I like telling I liked telling the

0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:30.040
<v Speaker 3>real story of Facebook. Everybody knows the movie version, which

0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:34.120
<v Speaker 3>is not inaccurate. It's just it focused on different things

0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.240
<v Speaker 3>other than the actual founding of a company. And I

0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:39.880
<v Speaker 3>fought hard to keep a lot of the dot com

0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.600
<v Speaker 3>stuff in there, the dot com bubble, because I think

0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.080
<v Speaker 3>there's a lot of lessons to be learned, just even

0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:49.040
<v Speaker 3>from a larger cultural and social thing in terms of

0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.360
<v Speaker 3>that was the first bubble that all of us mainstream,

0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:57.160
<v Speaker 3>main street Americans experienced, and we've had several since then,

0:09:57.160 --> 0:09:58.760
<v Speaker 3>and seemingly the only thing we can do with the

0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:03.040
<v Speaker 3>economy is inflate fulls all the time. But I wanted

0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.600
<v Speaker 3>to I wanted to preserve what was unique and special

0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:09.400
<v Speaker 3>about the dot com bubble and maybe have people take

0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:10.200
<v Speaker 3>some lessons from that.

0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:14.400
<v Speaker 1>And that perfectly segues into another theme that I noticed

0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:18.600
<v Speaker 1>in the book. Even the biggest tech companies seemingly can

0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.880
<v Speaker 1>be leveled by the next big idea. We saw it

0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:26.080
<v Speaker 1>happen to Netscape in the book, Yahoo, Palm, MySpace. Do

0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:27.680
<v Speaker 1>you think that can still happen today?

0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.840
<v Speaker 3>One would hope so, because you know, the reality is

0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.640
<v Speaker 3>is that today I think it's seven or eight of

0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:39.320
<v Speaker 3>the top ten companies by market cap are all technology companies,

0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:42.240
<v Speaker 3>and even as as recently as five years ago, there

0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.960
<v Speaker 3>was only one. You would like to think that someone

0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:47.600
<v Speaker 3>can come out of left field and level all of them,

0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.480
<v Speaker 3>but the worry would be that they're creating a sort

0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:54.520
<v Speaker 3>of oligopoly where now you've got five trillion dollar and

0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.240
<v Speaker 3>half a trillion dollar companies that the next guy that

0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.880
<v Speaker 3>comes up to try to disrupt them, you've got you know,

0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.440
<v Speaker 3>five to seven huge companies that can just buy them

0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:07.040
<v Speaker 3>up and bring them in and like the borg, assimilate them.

0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.800
<v Speaker 3>I feel like that's the danger because like think of

0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:14.400
<v Speaker 3>think of Instagram. If Instagram had been allowed to stay independent,

0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:16.160
<v Speaker 3>like what would that company look like?

0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.880
<v Speaker 1>How the Internet Happened by Brian McCullough available now on

0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:20.160
<v Speaker 1>Where should people buy this?

0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:21.360
<v Speaker 2>Where's the best place to buy it?

0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.880
<v Speaker 3>Anywhere that books are sold. There's ebook versions, so you

0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.280
<v Speaker 3>know Kindle and all that. There's also an audiobook version.

0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.560
<v Speaker 3>So basically anywhere that you that find books can be had,

0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:32.160
<v Speaker 3>you'll find this.

0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Book, all right. I think you'll really enjoy the book.

0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.199
<v Speaker 1>Also check out Brian on the Tech Meme Ride Home

0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:42.360
<v Speaker 1>podcast and the Internet History Podcast. Brian mcc on Twitter,

0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:44.400
<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much for joining me today to talk about

0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:46.560
<v Speaker 1>the book again. It's called How the Internet Happened. I

0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.600
<v Speaker 1>am thoroughly enjoying it. I think you will too. If

0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:51.280
<v Speaker 1>you want to learn more, you can go into the

0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.760
<v Speaker 1>show notes of the podcast. You can find a link there,

0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:57.600
<v Speaker 1>or just go to my website. Rich on tech dot Tv, Thanks.

0:11:57.360 --> 0:11:59.240
<v Speaker 2>So much for listening. I'm Rich Dmiro. I'll talk to

0:11:59.240 --> 0:11:59.880
<v Speaker 2>you real soon.

0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:01.000
<v Speaker 1>Three