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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlie.

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Speaker 2: This is all BALLU man. We got a lot to

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Speaker 2: get to today, as we've seen Kevin Durant and Lebron

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Speaker 2: James and of course Steph Curry all be eliminated either

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Speaker 2: from the play in or the tournament itself. And then

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Speaker 2: of course you have the wild, wacky world of an

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Speaker 2: I l which we'll get to with Part two with

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Speaker 2: Dan Poneman, who is the most known and respected of

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Speaker 2: the NIL agents I believe out in space in terms

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Speaker 2: of landing players. You know, everybody does NIL a little

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Speaker 2: bit differently. Some of these guys. You know, there's Darren Heidner,

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Speaker 2: who we've had on before, who does more of the

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Speaker 2: traditional name moons and likeness deals with the Cavender twins

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Speaker 2: and others. But anyway, I think that it's been and

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Speaker 2: Jason Belzer has joined us previously, and of course Dan

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Speaker 2: Poneman will join us for Part two. I think we'll

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Speaker 2: have a part three as well. So let's let me

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Speaker 2: give you a couple thoughts here. At the time that

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Speaker 2: we dropped this pod, the Lakers have just lost their

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Speaker 2: fourth game to the Denver Nuggets, and I thought the

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Speaker 2: Lakers gave the Nuggets all they wanted really do. And

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Speaker 2: there was a couple of games in the middle where

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Speaker 2: Lebron didn't play as well high turnovers defense, Like he's

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Speaker 2: not the defender he used to be. It's not really

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Speaker 2: close snort should he be asked to be that level defender?

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Speaker 2: But I mean, I kind of find it hard. You know,

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Speaker 2: you really sound like a Lebron hater when you're finding

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Speaker 2: fault with Bron in this particular case as opposed to

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Speaker 2: the construct of the roster. And you know, the decision,

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Speaker 2: I frankly think that higher divn Ham like that was

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Speaker 2: a bad decision. And I don't know Darvin personally. I

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Speaker 2: know enough about how he runs his ship. But the

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Speaker 2: idea that you would bring a guy who's that inexperienced

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Speaker 2: in granted former player, right, So there's the and you know,

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Speaker 2: with his size, he can legit look Lebron in the eyes.

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Speaker 2: There's a little bit of mutual respect, but like, look,

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Speaker 2: Lebron wants to win. And you just got the sentence

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Speaker 2: over the past two years of playing for him that

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Speaker 2: you know, whether it's personnel and you know D'Angel Russell

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Speaker 2: not being good enough for you know, rotations, and I mean,

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Speaker 2: even who was in in the last shot last night

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Speaker 2: when Jamal Murray hit the shot, Like just the little

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Speaker 2: things like substitutions are huge things in everybody's minds, but

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Speaker 2: especially Lebron James. So you know, somehow I went from

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Speaker 2: if you go back a decade ago, you know, when

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Speaker 2: Lebron was winning in Miami. I was trying to tell

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Speaker 2: people this guy has been maligned and you know, he's

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Speaker 2: held to a ridiculous standard when he's an unbelievable player.

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Speaker 2: And since that, in trying to keep it real and

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Speaker 2: point out some of his clause and the way he

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Speaker 2: does things, et cetera, et cetera, I've become seen as

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Speaker 2: the Lebron hater. I just feel like I'm a realistness thing,

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Speaker 2: and the reality is that Lebron James is an incredible player,

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Speaker 2: and he gave incredible effort and had a ridiculous season. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: does he take a lot more plays off shore? Are

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Speaker 2: there some excuses afterwards? Like afterwards we heard the man

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Speaker 2: we just had so many injuries, Like what are you

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Speaker 2: talking about? Game Vincent was hurt. They never got anything

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Speaker 2: out of Gay Vincent, I'll give you that, and he

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Speaker 2: probably would have been your starting point guard. That is

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Speaker 2: a fair assessment. That's fair. But the top four players

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Speaker 2: and the Lakers played seventy games. You know, the Lakers

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Speaker 2: seven seed didn't have anything to do with load management,

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Speaker 2: didn't have anything to do with anything other than they

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Speaker 2: just weren't that good. And I don't I'm not convinced

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Speaker 2: the Nuggets are as dominant as they were last year.

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Speaker 2: Just I don't think their bench is nearly as good.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's one of the reasons that they trail,

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Speaker 2: you know, so often, they trailed time of all these games.

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Speaker 2: As for lebron and where he'll go, you know, he's

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Speaker 2: obviously going to leverage the fact that he's a free

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Speaker 2: agent and can be a free agent to get Bronni

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Speaker 2: with the Lakers. I just think that's a mistake. Just

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Speaker 2: do you know, I get it. Like, look, if my

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Speaker 2: dad could have done it, he probably would have done

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Speaker 2: it too. Get you in the league, give you a chance,

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Speaker 2: and you can develop in the G League. But like

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Speaker 2: I think, I think Bronni can have a great college

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Speaker 2: career and really have a fun college career. Now there

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Speaker 2: is a world there where Lebron Lebronny goes to Duquane

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Speaker 2: Right plays for his one of his best friends, and

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Speaker 2: in year two with the Lakers. There's also a world

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Speaker 2: where Lebron as a free agent, could sign for minimum money.

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Speaker 2: None of these guys do it, but he could sign

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Speaker 2: for a lot less so that they could sign they

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Speaker 2: could actually build a super team, and he could act

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Speaker 2: like he's thirty nine. He could chill out some games.

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Speaker 2: But again, we know the reality of how the Players

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Speaker 2: Association would react to that, how Lebron would not. That's

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Speaker 2: that's not something he's ever been down for. I just

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Speaker 2: don't see it happening. As for Kevin Durant, the Sons,

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Speaker 2: you know, that's just a bad mix and bad mix.

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Speaker 2: They they made some poor personnel decisions. I don't think

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Speaker 2: they needed Brad Deel. I actually think DeAndre Ayton would

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Speaker 2: have been a good fit, especially playing for a new

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Speaker 2: coach and in Frank, but it wasn't. They didn't have

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Speaker 2: a center, they didn't have a point guard, and the

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Speaker 2: wings didn't all fit together. They didn't seem to buy in,

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Speaker 2: and Frank seem to struggle to coach. And then you

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Speaker 2: have the Golden State Warriors and what do they do?

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Speaker 2: What do they do with Clay. You know again, it's

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Speaker 2: like you bring Clay back? Sure, well, at what price?

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Speaker 2: At what price? With all these guys, it's at what price?

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Speaker 2: And then we wait to see with the Clippers and

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Speaker 2: the MAVs, losing coach could be the next Lakers at coach.

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Speaker 2: But also, are you better off playing without Kawhi in

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Speaker 2: this series? And hope he's healthy for the next series,

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Speaker 2: and see if you can squeak out two more against

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Speaker 2: the against the Mavericks more NBA Steff to come. But

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Speaker 2: let's take back into the portal and Nil, here's part

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Speaker 2: two with Dan Punter.

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Speaker 3: All right, let's just get right back.

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Speaker 2: Let's just dive right back in, because you just get

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Speaker 2: back from Portsmith, which of course is the more traditional

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Speaker 2: agent place right where seniors are trying to find a

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Speaker 2: guy to help them and guide them through all of this.

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Speaker 2: And I know that you were hit up by hundreds

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Speaker 2: of people in terms of listening to the first pod

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Speaker 2: questions they had. Let's start with a couple of things

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Speaker 2: that I get asked, and I just wonder kind of

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Speaker 2: your immediate response. Let's start with an agent, and so like,

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Speaker 2: why do you need an agent? Why does a college

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Speaker 2: player need an agent in the world of an iol.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'll answer that question, but first here initial comment.

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Speaker 4: It's funny. I was at Portsmouth at Portsmuth Invitational, which,

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Speaker 4: for those who don't know, is the top sixty four

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Speaker 4: outgoing seniors in college basketball playing in a tournament in

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Speaker 4: front of two hundred and fifty NBA scouts. So I'm

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Speaker 4: there because I have some guys in the draft, right,

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Speaker 4: so I'm going to talk to NBA scouts to push

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Speaker 4: my guys get information. Almost every NBA scout just wanted

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Speaker 4: to talk to me about Nil. Everybody's like, oh, yeah, cool,

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Speaker 4: let's talk about your players, but also what the heck

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Speaker 4: is going on with Nil? I mean, everyone is fascinated

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Speaker 4: by this world. It's I'm so entrenched in it. It

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Speaker 4: seems so normal to me. It's just everyday life. But

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Speaker 4: I guess from the outside looking in, it is this

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Speaker 4: whole mystery box of madness that I guess. That's why

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Speaker 4: there was so much interest in our first episode. I'm

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Speaker 4: happy to be back, but I guess, yeah, let's jump

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Speaker 4: into it. Why does a player need an agent? Well,

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Speaker 4: let's look at any other sport, basketball, soccer, football, where

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Speaker 4: athletes are making between one hundred thousand and a million plus.

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Speaker 4: Whether it's olympians or pro sports overseas or here, they

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Speaker 4: all have agents. If you're a musician and you're making

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Speaker 4: a million dollars a year touring, you have an agent.

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Speaker 4: When you're dealing with money at that magnitude, you need

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Speaker 4: an agent. You need someone who's been through the battles,

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Speaker 4: you know, hundreds, if not thousands of times, who knows

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Speaker 4: what to look for in a contract to know, Hey,

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Speaker 4: is this team going to be able to wiggle out

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Speaker 4: of paying this money or is this ironclad? You need

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Speaker 4: someone who understands the marketplace where you're not just I mean,

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Speaker 4: I've heard stories from coaches recently where parents are doing

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Speaker 4: the negotiations on nil for their kids and they're just

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Speaker 4: seeing online these numbers that are sometimes real, sometimes fake,

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Speaker 4: like we all saw the Jeremy Roach rumors recently, right,

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Speaker 4: and parents are just walking into coach's office and asking

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Speaker 4: for absurd numbers and pricing their children out of real

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Speaker 4: opportunities by asking for money that the market doesn't have

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Speaker 4: for them. Right, Like, with an agent, initially, yes, you

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Speaker 4: have someone who's going to protect your money. You have

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Speaker 4: someone who's going to understand the marketplace and know how

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Speaker 4: to value you properly so you get the right opportunity

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Speaker 4: and don't price yourself out of the market. But I

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Speaker 4: think specifically in an NIL world, maybe the number one

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Speaker 4: function of an agent is making sure you actually get

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Speaker 4: your money. Like we've heard all these stories of guys

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Speaker 4: being promised big numbers and not getting those numbers right

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Speaker 4: our schools, handing out contracts or handing out promises for

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Speaker 4: money they haven't raised yet. A lot of them are true.

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Speaker 4: Like I've heard a lot of kids who got promised

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Speaker 4: one hundred thousand and got twenty, promise four hundred thousand

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Speaker 4: and got one hundred. I mean, there are real, real

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Speaker 4: instances of that that I've seen.

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Speaker 3: How do you protect against them?

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Speaker 4: Well, first and foremost, it's getting an ironclad guaranteed contract

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Speaker 4: when a kid gets on campus, and you know there's

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Speaker 4: always you know, as an agent, you want your contracts

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Speaker 4: to be as guaranteed as possible. Like an NBA, I mean,

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Speaker 4: the players use an incredible job of protecting their athletes

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Speaker 4: where like you can get arrested, you can there's a

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Speaker 4: lot that can go down where that money is still

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Speaker 4: going to be guaranteed. Now in college. We're not at

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Speaker 4: that point yet. Like sometimes there's a give and take

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Speaker 4: where hey, if a guy's not academically eligible to play,

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Speaker 4: maybe you know, it's fine to cancel the nil contract.

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Speaker 4: Or if he gets arrested and he's not on the team,

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Speaker 4: But if he's injured, we need that guaranteed. You can't say, oh,

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Speaker 4: he's sprained his angle, he's red shirting. He's not getting

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Speaker 4: his money right. So you know, as an agent, initially

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Speaker 4: we have to get the guaranteed contract. But then also

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Speaker 4: I've seen instances of collectives filing for bankruptcy midseasons so

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Speaker 4: they don't have to pay their players because they want

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Speaker 4: to push out a coach. And it's my job to

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Speaker 4: be a little bit of an enforcer, right to go

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Speaker 4: to those coaches and say, hey, you promise this kid this.

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Speaker 4: This collective you know, promises kid this, and if you

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Speaker 4: don't pay him, I control a huge portion of the

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Speaker 4: market and I can't trust you again. I can't work

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Speaker 4: with you again, knowing that the first time or the

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Speaker 4: second time we've done business together, you made a promise

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Speaker 4: to a young man and you screwed him out of

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Speaker 4: his money. We're not going to work together again, and

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Speaker 4: most of the industry is going to find out that

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Speaker 4: you don't pay your bills. So I think there is

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Speaker 4: a checks and balances where there are agents to help

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Speaker 4: stabilize that system to prevent a coach from promising a

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Speaker 4: huge number for a grad transfer who, if they don't

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Speaker 4: pay him, is one year and out and there's no reprofessions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's the question, right, especially if you know

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Speaker 2: the easiest way to get rid of a guy is

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Speaker 2: to stop paying a guy, right, So how do you

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Speaker 2: I guess it's it's mirror threat of kind of smear

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Speaker 2: within or exposing within the industry. That's the only kind

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Speaker 2: of defense you really have.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, obviously the contract is the defense, right,

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Speaker 4: Like I've had to use, you know, take a legal

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Speaker 4: action against collectives who weren't paying money, right. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: like I've seen one particular instance I'm thinking of with

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Speaker 4: the same boosters who are funding the collective wanted to

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Speaker 4: push out the head coach.

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Speaker 3: What they do is they just stop payment to the players.

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Speaker 2: Right then the players won't play, and the players won't play, and.

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Speaker 3: You can't get new players because you don't have any money. Collective,

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Speaker 3: You're screwed.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: I know of a coach, I major coach that happened

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Speaker 3: to a year ago.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so what do you do in that instance when

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Speaker 2: it's not the coach's fault, it's the boosters and collective's fault.

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Speaker 3: What do you do there?

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Speaker 4: That's where the contract comes in, right. I had that

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Speaker 4: instance at his school two years ago where the boosters

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Speaker 4: wanted to push out the coach. They stopped paying the players.

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Speaker 4: Most of those players were on handshake deals, or they

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Speaker 4: were on contracts that were negotiated by the parents that

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Speaker 4: were very easy to be broken by the collective. Now,

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Speaker 4: I had a sense going into it that that school

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Speaker 4: was shake. He didn't trust the boosters. So I not

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Speaker 4: only put the collective on the contract, but I put

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Speaker 4: the individual booster's name as a guaranteur on the contract.

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Speaker 4: So when he wasn't paying anybody else and they said, well,

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Speaker 4: you can sue the collective or bankrupt we got no money,

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Speaker 4: I said, yeah, but your name is on the contract,

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Speaker 4: and my kid got all of his money. So that's

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Speaker 4: what comes from being through hundreds of these battles, is

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Speaker 4: you kind of know how to protect against those situations.

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Speaker 3: It's a big toll school.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, I think we're talking about the same score.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you heard this.

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Speaker 2: No, A lot of the pushback from some of the

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Speaker 2: donors is like, there's no ROI on this thing at all,

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Speaker 2: you know, And so I heard that at one is

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Speaker 2: a football deal.

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Speaker 3: But one of.

257
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Speaker 2: The most regarded returning football players.

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Speaker 3: You had a booster who just said, like, I'm.

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Speaker 2: Going to buy all his rights, by all his true

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Speaker 2: nil rights. It's like a million dollars, and then he

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Speaker 2: won't do much of anything and will write it off

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Speaker 2: as a loss.

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Speaker 3: I'll write off of my personal as a loss to

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Speaker 3: a certain amount.

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Speaker 2: That's that's that's one way which around some of the

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Speaker 2: tax stuff which you don't get any benefit from giving

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Speaker 2: this money.

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Speaker 4: You heard of that, yeah, well there. I know. There

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Speaker 4: was some controversy last year where a lot of collectors

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Speaker 4: were promoting to their boosters that these were nonprofit five

271
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Speaker 4: to one C three and you can have tax right

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Speaker 4: off from your donations to the collective, and then like

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Speaker 4: midway through the year, it turned out to not be

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Speaker 4: the case all the time, and there were some unhappy

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Speaker 4: boosters who had donated money and it turned out they

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Speaker 4: might not be able to write it off. That's actually

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Speaker 4: the first time I've heard about the buying NIL rights

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Speaker 4: and writing it off as a loss. It's actually pretty genius.

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Speaker 4: But one thing I want to talk about when it

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Speaker 4: comes to ROI is I mean, let's let's take a

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Speaker 4: side step here, right, We've all seen the conversation online

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Speaker 4: around like, this isn't true NIL, this is pay for play?

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Speaker 4: Is this is not this is not nil? This is

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Speaker 4: pay for play. Well, maybe it's not ANIL in the

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Speaker 4: sense of, you know, getting an endorsement from Nike or

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00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,560
Speaker 4: your local pizza shop, which is what we thought on

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00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,360
Speaker 4: IL would be. But I actually do believe in many cases,

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00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,360
Speaker 4: in most of these cases, this is players making money

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00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,320
Speaker 4: from their name, image, and likeness because these universities are

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Speaker 4: using college sports as a marketing vehicle for the university.

291
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,840
Speaker 4: When Florida Atlantic or George Mason makes the final four,

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00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,080
Speaker 4: emissions go up, revenues go up. Right, those players are

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00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:03,160
Speaker 4: acting as a marketing vehicle for universities that bring in millions,

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Speaker 4: if not billions of dollars.

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Speaker 3: So I would I hear here's here'd be my pushback

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Speaker 3: on that.

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Speaker 2: Everybody push back, and I've I've and I understand that

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Speaker 2: I've lost the true Anil war because I saw this coming,

299
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Speaker 2: which is like I love the idea of true nil,

300
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,280
Speaker 2: It's just not a reality. There's just there's no way

301
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,960
Speaker 2: you can check in balance on everything. And this is

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00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,320
Speaker 2: what happens when there's no checks in that the argument

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00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,240
Speaker 2: against what you're saying, which is accurate, right when you

304
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,760
Speaker 2: when you win the school, usually the emissions go up

305
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:35,760
Speaker 2: and everything goes up.

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Speaker 3: But when you win, you also.

307
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Speaker 2: The nil that I experienced as a player, from having

308
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,040
Speaker 2: a great career, from being on teams that people liked,

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00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,000
Speaker 2: is the rest of my life. I don't really have

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00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,800
Speaker 2: to work, you know, I don't, and you know from

311
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,320
Speaker 2: guys getting a chance to There's.

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00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,320
Speaker 3: A guy named Matt Davison. Do you ever hear that

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00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:58,200
Speaker 3: name Matt Davison?

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Speaker 4: I think so.

315
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Speaker 2: Matt Davison he played basketball and football at Nebraska.

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00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:04,280
Speaker 3: Okay, but his.

317
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,720
Speaker 2: Claim to fame I think it was I want to

318
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,800
Speaker 2: say it was the last time Missouri and Nebraska play,

319
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:12,720
Speaker 2: but I could be wrong because I'm they're in different

320
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:17,640
Speaker 2: leagues now obviously. But he caught a ball between his legs.

321
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,360
Speaker 2: He's a tight end dough for balls. Bad pass bubbled up.

322
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,600
Speaker 2: I think he caught it between his like some miraculous catch.

323
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,560
Speaker 2: He's literally used that to make his life right.

324
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Speaker 3: He's the I think he's the color commentator for football

325
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,080
Speaker 3: and basketball at Nebraska, at least he has been. And

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Speaker 3: the point is that the way it used to.

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Speaker 2: Work, which I would I would agree with anybody who said, like, hey,

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00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,920
Speaker 2: maybe it's not the actual value of what you brought

329
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 2: to university, but there's other things that university does for

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00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,440
Speaker 2: you that we don't give him credit for him. I mean,

331
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,160
Speaker 2: most of us couldn't have gotten into the school that

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00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,240
Speaker 2: we played for, let alone, you know, gotten through and graduated.

333
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,320
Speaker 2: But that that's the real essence of how it used

334
00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,920
Speaker 2: to be and how it does. It does in fact

335
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,160
Speaker 2: even out, which is, yes, when you go to a

336
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,600
Speaker 2: final four, admissions go up, everything goes crazy, but you're

337
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,399
Speaker 2: also forever part of something special and if you have

338
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,760
Speaker 2: any brains at all, you can make a life for

339
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,760
Speaker 2: yourself out of it. Now, how that factors into the

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00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,280
Speaker 2: NIL world should be, you know, there should be I

341
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,240
Speaker 2: don't want to say performance bonuses, but like team collective deals.

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00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,879
Speaker 2: The reason it's not nil, Daniel is because we're giving

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00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:32,679
Speaker 2: these guaranteed contracts before there's any ever, any achievement, you know.

344
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,520
Speaker 2: So that's why I propose, like, all right, apparently now

345
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,880
Speaker 2: the transfer portal thing is just going to keep going on.

346
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,320
Speaker 2: But it's the combination of the transfer portal and NIL

347
00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,199
Speaker 2: which has this thing a mess because you don't have

348
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 2: to stay, you can't build culture and can't really build

349
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 2: a base for yourself for the future. And because we

350
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,760
Speaker 2: give money before the kid even played a snap or

351
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,960
Speaker 2: you know, on a shot, that it's that you're you're

352
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 2: paying for potential performances. Whereas like again, a real NIL

353
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,160
Speaker 2: would be, hey, here's a guy who's had a great year,

354
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,560
Speaker 2: he was All League, he hit a big shot, he

355
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,160
Speaker 2: should receive, you know, something for all of his hard work.

356
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,080
Speaker 2: Like that would be one in which I think you'd

357
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:24,959
Speaker 2: get kind of united front on contracts where if you

358
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Speaker 2: I don't want to say backlum, you talked about last

359
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,359
Speaker 2: time about multi year contracts. Is there a way to

360
00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 2: build these things where there's bonuses for you know, team's success,

361
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,800
Speaker 2: where there's bonuses for academic success, where there's retention bonuses

362
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,439
Speaker 2: as well, so you get kids that come back for

363
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,720
Speaker 2: a couple of years, because that's really what makes the

364
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:45,760
Speaker 2: sport hard to follow.

365
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,360
Speaker 3: Is everybody somewhere else every year?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you're barking up an interesting tree here, Okay, And

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00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,520
Speaker 4: I have two points on it. To your first point, like, yes,

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00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,320
Speaker 4: if you're Doug duckleebin, you're smart and you can you know, talk,

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00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,639
Speaker 4: you know, sell water to a whale, and you have

370
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,280
Speaker 4: a good career. Yeah, there's a lifetime of opportunity from

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00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 4: your career. But some of these kids you said, you know,

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00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 4: he said, maybe aren't the smartest, or maybe aren't the

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00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 4: most outgoing, or maybe aren't the most entrepreneurial, right, and

374
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:13,840
Speaker 4: now they might not be able to again. I have

375
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 4: a friend, Matt Mooney played at Texas Tech. He goes

376
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,199
Speaker 4: back every summer, runs it camp, makes probably you know,

377
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 4: fifty grand whatever because he played on that four team.

378
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,360
Speaker 4: He's entrepreneurial, he's smart, he's savvy. Right. There's other kids

379
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,960
Speaker 4: on that team that don't have that gene, right, that

380
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 4: aren't capitalizing in that way. But the school did profit

381
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,639
Speaker 4: from their their performance and the name image of likeness.

382
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,359
Speaker 4: So to your second point, we would all love for

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00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,720
Speaker 4: there to be a system where we could actually reward performance.

384
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,639
Speaker 4: As of now, we're not allowed to write into nil

385
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,639
Speaker 4: contracts bonuses for performance. But I think, be great if

386
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,920
Speaker 4: there is a world where you know, you got a

387
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,159
Speaker 4: final four bonus in your contract, right, then all these

388
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 4: kids are motivated to win and play together because we're

389
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 4: all going to get paid if we make it far. Right.

390
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,359
Speaker 4: I think there is one tournament that just popped up

391
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 4: next year, Like I think it's like a holiday tournament

392
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,520
Speaker 4: where they have like you know, eight to twelve teams,

393
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,480
Speaker 4: where every team gets a million bucks and I think

394
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 4: the winner gets two. I mean, I think that's great.

395
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,639
Speaker 4: That's a great incentive not just for individual performance but

396
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 4: for team play. And one of the schools or all

397
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,960
Speaker 4: of the schools in that tournament are doing much better

398
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:17,639
Speaker 4: at retaining their players because there is this pot of

399
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,119
Speaker 4: gold at the end of the rainbow for guys to

400
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,080
Speaker 4: stay because you're like, oh wait, if we stay here

401
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:22,639
Speaker 4: and we play in the tournament, we win, we split

402
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,199
Speaker 4: two million bucks. So it's great. But right now, the

403
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 4: system we have doesn't allow us to reward for teams

404
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,200
Speaker 4: success except for in that instance, right, you can't put

405
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 4: it's harder to put performance bonuses based on the current

406
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 4: contract of the rules. Right. I have talked to one

407
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 4: collective recently that has started putting in a bonus for

408
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 4: a postseason appearance, which is the first time I'd heard that.

409
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 4: This offseason. They said, hey, this is the number, and

410
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,160
Speaker 4: this is the number that you know, the bonus if

411
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 4: they make the postseason. I believe that's allowed because as

412
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,240
Speaker 4: a marketing company, which is a collective marketing companies, you

413
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 4: can say, if the team you know plays these extra games,

414
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 4: or if the team you're on gets this extra exposure

415
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 4: that gives us, you know, added marketing value to your name,

416
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 4: image and likeness, right, so thus we can give you

417
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 4: a bonus. But the reality is the rules are so gray,

418
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,639
Speaker 4: they're constantly changing. No one knows right from left. So

419
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 4: until we do stabilize this and like have some real

420
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,159
Speaker 4: rules in a real system, which we all need to

421
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 4: work together to do, You're right, you're going to have

422
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 4: to gamble on the potential anile future of these guys.

423
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 4: But I'll counter that and say most jobs are that.

424
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,639
Speaker 4: If you're hiring someone for a sales job, yeah, there's commissions,

425
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 4: but you are gambling that the money you're paying them

426
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 4: is going to lead to profit. That's how most jobs are. Right.

427
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428
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Speaker 1: listen live.

431
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like, okay, so, which which job is

432
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 3: this for? For players? Is it their first job?

433
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 2: I had some it's their first job, you know, like

434
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,399
Speaker 2: you're getting nothing and having to earn it, right, and

435
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 2: then if you achieve, then your every job you get

436
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,479
Speaker 2: a little bit more. That's where it does kind of

437
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 2: mirror the business world.

438
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,880
Speaker 4: Isn't so unique because again, like in pro sports, the

439
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:24,159
Speaker 4: pro team is the for profit vehicle, right, whereas with

440
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 4: college sports, the college team is a marketing arm for

441
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 4: the true for profit vehicle, which is the university itself. Right,

442
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 4: So this is true, true.

443
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 2: I would only here, here's one thing that I think,

444
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 2: and your argument is a valid one in that we

445
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 2: use athletics to market and promote the university. My pushback

446
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 2: to this has always been, hey, guess what they do

447
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 2: that with everybody? Right, Like the college, the universities are

448
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:56,360
Speaker 2: they're brilliant businesses because they operate under this tax exempt status.

449
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 3: They operate as if they're not a business.

450
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 2: And then what they do is they charge everybody and

451
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 2: then you know, they make money off of basically everything,

452
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 2: and then if you achieve anything science, music, obviously sports

453
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 2: is the easiest to road. But they're going to get

454
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 2: all of the juice out of that orange.

455
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 3: They can't.

456
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 2: And then the second you finished, they're like, hey, can

457
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 2: you give something back for the next generation, Like it's amazing,

458
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 2: what's what they do?

459
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 3: Like the balls on these people? I just got done.

460
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 2: I just you know, paid for my kid to graduate

461
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,199
Speaker 2: from X y Z University. And how they want you know,

462
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 2: undergrand like what it just gave them two hundred fifty

463
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 2: grand over four years.

464
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 4: I think I think the tip of the iceberg is

465
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 4: the NCAA, and the real iceberg is uh colleges and

466
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 4: universities in America and the scam that that that somewhere.

467
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 4: I mean, I didn't go to college, right and I'm

468
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 4: doing great, but I'm the exception of the rule. But

469
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 4: but yeah, I mean, and to that point, people are

470
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 4: talking about donor fatigue and NIL the nil world, Like

471
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 4: when are they gonna stop? You know, when are people

472
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 4: get tired of donating money for you know, no return

473
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 4: for these basketbas I mean, it's the meaning of time.

474
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 4: Every science building and park bench on. These universities were

475
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 4: built by someone who gave money with no return right,

476
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 4: and this is used.

477
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 2: To be write offs with it, right, It's used to

478
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 2: be right ups and people like again, I guess rich

479
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 2: people like their names on buildings, that's my building. They're

480
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 2: you know, whereas with a player, they're here, they're gone

481
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 2: so quickly. When people accuse you of proaching the player,

482
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 2: what's the reality to how you view it and how

483
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 2: things actually good?

484
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 4: Dot So poaching. I don't like this term. Right. Poaching

485
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 4: is a term that is used in the college basketball

486
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 4: marketplace but will never be used in a pro pro context. Right,

487
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 4: if you have a player in Spain playing for Basconia

488
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 4: for four hundred thousand, and Barcelona reaches out to the

489
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 4: agent and says, hey, we're really interested in your player

490
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 4: for next season, we have a million, that is not poaching.

491
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 4: That is a higher level team exploring building their team

492
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 4: next year using players who have overachieved at a lower level.

493
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 4: And similarly, if Basconia is reaching out to the agent

494
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 4: of a bench player on Barcelona about their interest in

495
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 4: moving down a level, that's not poaching. That's the way

496
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 4: the marketplace works. Whereas in college. If there's a player

497
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 4: making zero dollars at a mid major and a high

498
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,239
Speaker 4: major uses an agent or someone else to put out

499
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 4: a feeler if that could be interested in moving up

500
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 4: a level to make life changing money, it's called poaching, right,

501
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 4: And I think we need to throw that term out

502
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 4: the window. I do think that we need more strict

503
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 4: guidelines and by laws around when these conversations can happen,

504
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 4: how these conversations can happen, what constitutes tampering and what doesn't.

505
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 4: But you have mid major coaches up in arms that

506
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 4: everyone's poaching my players. No, these guys are leaving for

507
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 4: better opportunity. They're leaving to their lives. And and like

508
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 4: one of my biggest, if not my biggest pet peeve

509
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 4: in this whole economy, this whole anile world, is when

510
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 4: I hear coaches say things along the lines of, Oh,

511
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,719
Speaker 4: he's a good kid, he's not worried about money. Oh

512
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 4: he's about the right things. He's not worried about money, right,

513
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 4: or like oh that kid just just wants the bag, right.

514
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 4: It drives me crazy because when I hear a coach

515
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 4: saying he's about the things, the right things, he doesn't

516
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 4: worry about money. I hear a coach saying, Oh, he's

517
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 4: willing to give me his labor for free so I

518
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 4: can profit. I like that kid, right.

519
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think.

520
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 2: I think. I think you're taking it to way too

521
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: far of an extreme.

522
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 3: Because.

523
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 2: Because the kids that I've talked to that the coaches

524
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: gravitate towards it's not that they're not going to get paid,

525
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 2: it's that that's not the driving force behind every decision.

526
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 2: And that's actually a really good life lesson. It's a

527
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 2: hard one that I think all of us learn at

528
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 2: some point, which is like, oftentimes the best jobs are

529
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 2: not the highest paying jobs. You got to find the

530
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 2: right fit for yourself and you know, yes, no, do

531
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 2: you want to go Do you want to go play

532
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: for nothing when everybody else is playing for something? Of

533
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: course not nobody's nobody is telling you to play for free.

534
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: But you know when you have an established role, established identity,

535
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 2: when you have sweat equity in a program, You know

536
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 2: when you care about winning and losing and know that

537
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 2: the money will take care of itself. There is a

538
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 2: difference there between Hey, I want you to play for free,

539
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: and you're only concerned about the money, and somewhere in

540
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: the middle is that sweet spot that way you're trying

541
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 2: to thread that needle.

542
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 4: Right, You're right, the sweet spot is in the middle.

543
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 4: And one thing also, you said, oh, the money will

544
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 4: take care of itself. I've heard so many coaches and

545
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 4: collectives say, hey, if you come here and perform, we

546
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,239
Speaker 4: could give you more than this. I've heard that every time. Right,

547
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 4: here's your baseline number. If you come here and play well,

548
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 4: you could make way more than this. Zero times out

549
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 4: of what fifty plus deals I've done in the last

550
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 4: two years, zero times getting more from active.

551
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 2: No, no, no, but but but but again, this is

552
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 2: where this is where having an agent, I want to

553
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: be properly compensated for what I'm worth.

554
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 3: I have Dan Potaman, for example.

555
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 2: He's negotiate that we get into the window where you

556
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: know that you're in in you know, in the right

557
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 2: area financially like that it should then it's just about

558
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 2: like our relationship and I do I want to play for.

559
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 3: You like because I can?

560
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 2: Because that should be really the argument, right, Like if

561
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: the kid's a two fifty kid, he can get to fifty.

562
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 3: A bunch of differlaces, all right, so what makes your

563
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 3: program you need?

564
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: Why should I come play here when the money is

565
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: the same X, y Z whatever. You know, that's that's

566
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: where the coach has to then okay, here's what we

567
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,479
Speaker 2: you need. And for a player, you can tell if

568
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 2: he's engaged in that or if it's just dude, listen,

569
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 2: whoever the highest bet or that's where I'm going, which.

570
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 3: Again you're allowed to do.

571
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: But I actually really understand that because when that mentality

572
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: is one which doesn't really allow you to engage with

573
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 2: the players, with your teammates, with the school. And again

574
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 2: it's not an all or nothing thing. They're all going

575
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 2: to get paid. It's just a question of the in

576
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 2: the if you write down the ten most important things,

577
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 2: is it number one or is it number seven? And

578
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: I think you know, once you get past like three

579
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: through ten, now you're okay.

580
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 3: But if it's the number one thing, it just doesn't

581
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 3: work for someplace.

582
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, And honestly, when I sign a new client, we

583
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 4: do an intake interview where we ask them rate one

584
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 4: through ten, how important are each of these things? Do

585
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 4: you money? Academics, winning player development, conference, location, So we

586
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 4: let the client tell us what they value and it's

587
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 4: our job as an agent to find something that fits

588
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 4: the buckets that they value most. Right, kids this year

589
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 4: that are grad transfers that said I need a really

590
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 4: good MBA or a law program at my grad school. Right,

591
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 4: that's important to them. There are other guys who say, hey,

592
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 4: I want a grad school where I can take ballroom

593
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 4: dancing and not actually have to take real classes. Right.

594
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 4: So every kid has a different Every young man has

595
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 4: a different set of priorities. But if a kid says, look, Dan,

596
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 4: I know I'm probably not a pro. My family is struggling,

597
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 4: my mom is sick. I need the biggest bag possible,

598
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 4: that doesn't make him a bad person. Who is a

599
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 4: coach to tell you what your values should be? Right?

600
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 4: If you are different, kids have the luxury of saying

601
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 4: money doesn't matter that much. I have a trust fund,

602
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 4: my family makes money. I'm middle class, whereas other kids

603
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 4: know that luxury and this money is life changing for them.

604
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 4: And if they say this is my number one priority,

605
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 4: they are not to be judged for that. It is

606
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 4: not a coach's place to say, oh about the wrong things.

607
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 4: But to your other point, I.

608
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 3: Would say, why why can't he Why can't he make

609
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 3: the judgment.

610
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 4: Why can't a coach make the judgment that he's about

611
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 4: the wrong thing? Yeah, because you.

612
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 3: Know what I mean, Like like, listen, if he if

613
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 3: he if he is.

614
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 2: If you bring a kid on campus and you literally

615
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: can't get in a focus because all he's doing is

616
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 2: chasing ass, you know.

617
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 4: It's about the wrong things. But I'm saying in the instance, specifically,

618
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 4: if the kid's life circumstances dictate that money can and

619
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 4: should be a priority in this decision making process. As now,

620
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 4: for a coach to say, oh, you should be more

621
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 4: worried about player development or tell a kid what he

622
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 4: should be concerned about, right.

623
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 3: And well, you only do that if you don't have

624
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 3: the money.

625
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 4: You do you do that if you have the money

626
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 4: that right?

627
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: Right?

628
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 3: Or fifty short? Yes, but we have great player development.

629
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 4: Great player Oh yeah, he's about the wrong things. No,

630
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 4: you don't have a big enough budget. But having said that,

631
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 4: other guys are represented, probably like only twenty percent end

632
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 4: up taking the highest financial offer. My goal is generally

633
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 4: to get multiple schools in the same range, so a

634
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 4: kid can make a decision based on other factors. Right,

635
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 4: if you have four schools than four to four fifty. Great,

636
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 4: Now you can just pick the best one, right. There

637
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 4: are situations where there's schools that have outlier offers that

638
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 4: are hard to turn down, but kids and my experience

639
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 4: rarely actually take those.

640
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 3: I agree. I know of several of those from last year.

641
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: Biggest deal per year, biggest deal you've done so far

642
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: this year?

643
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know if I should. I don't know

644
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 4: if they can tie it back to an individual I've done.

645
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 4: I've done multiple five hundred plus. I haven't broke a

646
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 4: million yet this year.

647
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 3: What is What is the market like this year as

648
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 3: opposed to last year?

649
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 4: The market is a lot more robust this year last year,

650
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 4: last year.

651
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: In terms of a number of deals or the actual

652
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: deals selves.

653
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 4: Both Like last year. If you heard of someone getting

654
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 4: last year, you heard of someone getting five hundred plus

655
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 4: thousand outlier this year, it's completely normal. That's happening all over.

656
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 3: The place, but mostly one conference, no multiple conferences.

657
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I can think of right now, guys making

658
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 4: five to seven and the ACC, the Big twelve and

659
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 4: the Big ten. I don't know about big I know

660
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 4: I can think of a couple in the Big East.

661
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, generally the SEC has the most money,

662
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: that spends the most money.

663
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, But I'm thinking of a couple of Big

664
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 4: East teams right now, a couple of Big ten teams,

665
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 4: a couple of ACC a couple of Big twelve that

666
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 4: are consistent.

667
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 2: A couple of big twelves that have big money. But

668
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 2: I would say across the board, in the SEC you're

669
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: either in like you're you're you got to be in

670
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 2: on some level. Otherwise it's just it's stupid.

671
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 4: And the sec of your budget less than three million,

672
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 4: you're in a bad spot.

673
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 2: Here's a question that I have that I wont okay.

674
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: So a lot of these guys you're at Portsmouth, A

675
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: lot of those guys are going to go sign their

676
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: first overseas deal, right What has the adjustment been like

677
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 2: for college players adjusting to the fact that sometimes you're

678
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 2: going to make more money now in college than you

679
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 2: are when you're a professional player in your first contract.

680
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 3: What are those conversations like in the agent side.

681
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I like to have really real conversations

682
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 4: and lay out clear expectations ahead of time and make

683
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 4: sure that these guys are making their current their college

684
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 4: decisions knowing three four steps ahead. So you know. Recently,

685
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 4: for instance, I had a client turned down upwards of

686
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 4: six hundred thousand to take about a third of that

687
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 4: because he really liked the school. I said, great, I

688
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 4: support you, but like I want you to, let's game

689
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 4: out the different paths you could be in your financial future,

690
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 4: and then you can make the decision if this extra

691
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 4: you know, four hundred thousand dollars is how important it

692
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 4: is to you, because there might be a point when

693
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 4: you're twenty five years old playing in the G League

694
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 4: making forty five thousand when that extra you know, three

695
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 4: hundred grand to buy a house could be really useful.

696
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 4: If you want to turn it down, that's fine, but

697
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 4: let's let's you know, let's talk about these different paths

698
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 4: because if for these guys, if you're not in the NBA,

699
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 4: this is your peak earning, right Like G League salaries

700
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 4: are forty you know, if you're depending onf you're getting

701
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 4: an exhibit ten or not, like you're making between like

702
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 4: forty and one hundred and fifteen thousand, you know, pre

703
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 4: tax in the NBA. You know, rookies overseas are generally

704
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 4: even if you're a high end rookie, you're making you know,

705
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 4: fifty to seventy net your rookie year, So most of

706
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 4: these guys are going to be taking pay cuts if

707
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 4: you're not in the NBA now. It could work a

708
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 4: few different ways. On one hand, it could be pissed, like, hey,

709
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 4: I'm used to making this amount of money, why am

710
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 4: I making this now? But on the other hand, it

711
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 4: makes it a little more palatable because if you've saved

712
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 4: your money now, you can live a little more comfortably

713
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 4: and climb that European ladder, right or fight it out

714
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 4: in the G League because you've got some savings, right,

715
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 4: It makes life more livable. For making a forty thousand

716
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 4: dollars salary in the G League and you've got two

717
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 4: hundred thousand saved from your college career, you don't have

718
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 4: to train guys in the off season to make up

719
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 4: that income. One thing I think we're going to see though, actually,

720
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 4: but I've noticed this year is college players being less

721
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 4: likely to go to the g LE route because they're

722
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 4: so used to making so much money. Right, Sure, you're

723
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 4: accustomed to making three four hundred thousand dollars a year

724
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 4: and you're like, wait, my salary is gonna be what

725
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 4: forty thousand all right, let me go to let me

726
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 4: go to Asia and get this bad because I've become

727
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 4: accustomed to this quality of life and I can't go

728
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 4: back to, you know, that lower income bracket. So I

729
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 4: do think it's it's going to make guys go overseas

730
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 4: quicker rather than going to the G League because they

731
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 4: want to continue earning at the level they have been.

732
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 3: Where is the portal now?

733
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 2: So right now we're in, uh the end of April,

734
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 2: and when I say where is the portal now, because

735
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 2: you have this is my interpretation of it, you're actually

736
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 2: living in on a daily basis.

737
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 3: Right.

738
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 2: So you had the initial thrust of portal guys, most

739
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 2: of them weren't going to be welcomed back at their

740
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 2: school anyway. You know, as soon as the season's over,

741
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 2: they put themselves in them.

742
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

743
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 2: You also had you know, coaching changes or whatever. And

744
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: then as the dust settled, you could see which players

745
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: would go in and probably ask for you know, a

746
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 2: rate increase. Coach would say no, or we don't have that,

747
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 2: and then you'd see those players leave, and now the market.

748
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 3: Kind of gets a flushed.

749
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 2: You've seen some high end players, a couple of them

750
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: have committed a couple of them happened. A lot have

751
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 2: declared for the NBA Draft, and I believe again this

752
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 2: is me outside of your insider is that's just delaying

753
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 2: the portal thing because it doesn't put you in the portal,

754
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 2: but it puts you in the portal to declare for

755
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 2: the for the NBA. And so uh, it's it's kind

756
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 2: of chaos right now because you have over a thousand

757
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 2: guys in the portal, but you also have you know,

758
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 2: over one hundred guys with their names declared.

759
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 3: For the draft.

760
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: And then you have you know, the grad transfers that

761
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 2: are there's untold grad transfers and you know they're on

762
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 2: the market. They don't have to put themselves in the portal. Right,

763
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 2: what am I missing anything? I'm missing any kind of

764
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,439
Speaker 2: group of players that's out there.

765
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 4: Actually, grad transfers do have to put themselves in the portal.

766
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 4: This year, they change that because they had last chaos

767
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 4: like last year, the are people picking off grad chansers

768
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 4: from other teams when they're already in school on campus.

769
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 4: So they did change. And for NBA players, if you're

770
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 4: testing the waters, you still have to put your name

771
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 4: in the portal, but where we've reached right now is

772
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 4: coaching season. And again, I know I just said I

773
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 4: don't like to use that word, but that's that's the

774
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 4: terminology we're we're working with here, like the point where

775
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 4: where the guys in the portal or the guys in

776
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 4: the portal, there's a few more entering every day, but

777
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 4: a lot of the guys that are entering now are

778
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 4: entering with a destination in mind. Right, we've reached a

779
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 4: point where schools with big budgets have struck out on

780
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 4: guys that are currently in the portal, and they're looking

781
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 4: at the roster saying we have to figure something out,

782
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 4: and they're calling agents to ask about guys that are

783
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 4: currently on other rosters. And people can say it's unethical,

784
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 4: it's wrong, but everybody's doing it to each other. So yeah,

785
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 4: you're getting a guy poached off your roster, but you're

786
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 4: trying to poach somebody off someone else's roster. So until

787
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 4: we get to May first, we have about a week

788
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 4: left of people throwing insane offers at guys who are

789
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 4: on other people's rosters, and everyone's doing it to each other.

790
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 4: So no one can be holier than now. Because I

791
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 4: don't I mean, that's what the name of the game is.

792
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 4: Until we have a set of rules that we can enforce,

793
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 4: that set guidelines around what's allowed and what isn't. This

794
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 4: is the name of the game. So I think the

795
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 4: first wave of the portal was the guys who knew

796
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,919
Speaker 4: all year they were entering. The second wave was Oh, crap,

797
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 4: everybody's leaving my team, or prap, my coach got fired,

798
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 4: or crap, I don't like this new coach. I'm mean

799
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 4: under the portal, right, and then it's oh crap, they

800
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 4: brought in someone at my position, So writing's on the wall.

801
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 4: I got to get out of here, right, And now

802
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 4: we've passed that phase, and now it's oh crap, I

803
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 4: don't like I can't get the best guys in the portal.

804
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 4: Let me go find a guy on someone else's roster

805
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 4: to pick off. And I think that's a final wave

806
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 4: of the portal. So we're going to probably see some

807
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 4: interesting names this week, just like we saw last week

808
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 4: that no one expected to jump that that that already

809
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 4: have a spot in mind.

810
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 2: What about what about when you commit to a school

811
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,240
Speaker 2: and then that school. I saw this yesterday at school

812
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 2: took like one school took two point guards yesterday. I

813
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 2: thought that was interesting. How binding are these agreements when

814
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 2: you commit to a school.

815
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 4: They're not. They're not, I mean straight up, like most

816
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 4: of these collective contracts are like tied to being enrolled

817
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 4: in an institution in a specific geographic region and parameters

818
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 4: like that. But if you don't go to that school,

819
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 4: like generally penalty to breaking it again. I suggest that

820
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 4: on the last one there could be buyout clauses. I

821
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 4: could prevent that right now. These agreements really aren't binding.

822
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 4: So if you know, I think you know from my perspective,

823
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 4: if you commit to a school and you give your

824
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 4: verbal agreement and you handshake or a sign with the

825
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 4: collective and before the period's over, somebody else, another school

826
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 4: makes a bigger offer, I do think it is unethical

827
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 4: and I would never advise a client to back out

828
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 4: of an agreement for a higher offer. If you've already

829
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 4: made an agreement, I think your word, you should stick

830
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 4: with your work. Right. However, if you agree to something,

831
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 4: you agree to a role, and they say you're gonna

832
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 4: be the only point guard, and we make an agreement

833
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 4: and they bring another point guard, they put themselves in

834
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 4: a position where now you might need to look around

835
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 4: for an opportunity that suits you better, if that makes sense.

836
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 4: Like I think it's it's not right to break a

837
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 4: handshake or written agreement if everything is as they promised

838
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 4: it would be. But if you're really change and they

839
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 4: lie to you, and I think a kid should have

840
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 4: the right to shop around and find something that suits

841
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 4: them better.

842
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 2: Okay, Uh, the least one least one for for this

843
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 2: for this part we're talking about.

844
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 3: Okay.

845
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 2: Then there's also a bit of a waiting game here, right,

846
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 2: because you have let's just use the term we use

847
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 2: the term mid major waight too loosely, right, because there's

848
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 2: actually low major, the major minusment mallior plus all right,

849
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 2: So in the in the mid major world, like you

850
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: have players, a lot of them grad transfers. They're sitting

851
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 2: out there and you've established what their value is, right well,

852
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 2: what you believe it should be, and schools that are

853
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: recruiting them are somewhere in that area. But you know

854
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 2: in the back of your head that that after poaching

855
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 2: season probably comes panic season. We hang out anybody we

856
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 2: got to go, and we'll be willing to overpay guys

857
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 2: that we previously thought were at you know, at fifty.

858
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: Now we're willing to give them seventy five or one

859
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 2: hundred because now we're high major as opposed to fifty

860
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 2: or seventy five is really kind of topping out at

861
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: the mid major level. But that's like a delicate balance

862
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 2: for you, right, because you have the player and you

863
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 2: want to put them in a place where they can play.

864
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 2: You want to make sure you don't want to because again,

865
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 2: it hurts your relationship with the team. If you send

866
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 2: a kid who can't play at a high major level

867
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 2: to a high major you know, yeah, you got over

868
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 2: on them for a year, but your relationship is everything.

869
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 2: And because you've done the evaluation thing, go back to

870
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 2: when you're fourteen. So what's that waiting game like where

871
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 2: the balance of Hey, I have a bird in the hand,

872
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: but I potentially have two in the bush. Do I

873
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 2: take this deal? Do I not take this deal? Knowing

874
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 2: that the high majors are going to panic when some

875
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 2: of them need to fill roster spots here late late

876
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:49,919
Speaker 2: in the portal game.

877
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we've already reached panic season peak panic seas,

878
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 4: and I'll tell you that much. But again, my philosophy isn't.

879
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 2: The best part about You're talking about peak panticsies as

880
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 2: you're doing so with no facial effect at all, like

881
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 2: you're like they're panicking.

882
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 4: I'm not panicking the school, right, I just have to

883
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 4: sit here and navigate the changing marketplace and understand what

884
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 4: phase of the portal we're in. But again, my philosophy

885
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 4: as an agent is, when you find something you like,

886
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 4: you take it. You don't wait to get an extra

887
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 4: twenty or fifty that might be out there on the horizon.

888
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 4: You find something that suits you, right, you take it.

889
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 4: And maybe I have the luxury as an agent to

890
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 4: say that because these the difference of commission is not

891
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 4: materially affecting my life.

892
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 3: Right.

893
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 4: If you're an agent where you've got four guys and

894
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 4: your whole income for the years depending on these four commissions,

895
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 4: maybe you drag it out to get every single penny

896
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 4: and you put them in bad situations. But my business

897
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 4: is doing well enough that I don't need the extra

898
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 4: two thousand dollars here and there for myself. I can

899
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 4: tell a kid, hey, yeah, maybe you can get an

900
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 4: extra five or ten grand if you wait. But this

901
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 4: is a really good situation where you're really valued, and yes,

902
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 4: someone could come out of left field and offer you

903
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 4: a crazy bag, but this wool has been recruiting you

904
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 4: for a month and done a really good job. Kind

905
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,919
Speaker 4: of go where you're valued, right. But having said that, yeah,

906
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 4: there are gonna be some guys that were getting offered

907
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 4: forty fifty sixty all through portal season and someone's going

908
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 4: to come off for one twenty because they're desperate. Of course,

909
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 4: that happens all the time. And additionally, there are going

910
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 4: to be situations where people are tapped out on budget

911
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 4: and they don't like their roster and they're going back

912
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 4: to boosters being like, yo, I need another, I need

913
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 4: another one, one, five. There's this really good kid on

914
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 4: this other roster. I need a million form right now.

915
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 4: And that's when kids get really overpaid. There are a

916
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 4: few schools last year that late in the period paid

917
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 4: absurd sums for guys who averaged you know, four points

918
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,479
Speaker 4: a game, and uh, and those coaches got fine.

919
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 2: Then yeah, and then you have to pissing enough the

920
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: boosters and then you get yourself and they get yourself fire.

921
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 2: If you were going to establish a couple of basic rules,

922
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: basic rules, I put you in charge how do we

923
00:45:58,560 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 2: calm the chaos?

924
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 3: What do you do?

925
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 4: First off, we have to have a mutually agreed upon

926
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 4: uh governing body for collective contracts where if there's non payers,

927
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 4: late payers, liars that there are repercussions. We can't have

928
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 4: schools out here, uh not you know, promising one thing

929
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 4: and not paying it, or or giving contracts for money

930
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 4: that hasn't been raised yet. And I've seen that a lot. Right,

931
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 4: They're they're they're they're promising three million in contracts with

932
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 4: one to five in the day. Right, So we need

933
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 4: something to put parameters on on uh you know what

934
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 4: happens when when the kids aren't getting paid with their

935
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 4: own Additionally, we need heay.

936
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 3: So so let's let's start with that. So how do

937
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 3: we do that?

938
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 2: Because because right now, the I'm sure the NCAA and

939
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 2: the NCAA in parness to them is they're just really

940
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 2: made up of the schools and the issue that I

941
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 2: think most of the school the high major schools have

942
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 2: is like, look, we're handling this like this is the Senate.

943
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 2: Everybody gets a We want to be more like that.

944
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 2: If anything, in the House representatives where things are more

945
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 2: skewed in our favor because we're making more of the

946
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 2: money and we should determine how all this stuff goes

947
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 2: and so the end, So all these schools like what's

948
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 2: the difference with the past rule? You can get a

949
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 2: shot down in a court anyway, none of it can

950
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 2: stand up. So how do you how do you handle

951
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 2: that element to it well?

952
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 4: And we're far away from this, but I think, you know,

953
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 4: players having some sort of union where we can work

954
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 4: together with the NCAA where they're not just making rules

955
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 4: on the player's behalf, but that we're working together collectively

956
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 4: bargaining to find something that works for everybody. Like I

957
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 4: have friends at the NBA, at the NCAAA. I just

958
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 4: hung out with two of them at Portsmouth this week

959
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 4: and we talked about potential solutions. We're so far away

960
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,399
Speaker 4: from those actually being able to be put in put

961
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 4: in to reality. But again, I think the problem to

962
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 4: this point has been ncage is arbitrarily making rules that

963
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 4: everyone has to follow, where the players don't get a say.

964
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 4: The institutions are the only ones that get to say.

965
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 4: When we get to a world where the players and

966
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 4: the institutions can work together to create as system that

967
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 4: works for everybody, then we're going to be in business.

968
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 4: But I think we're pretty far off from that because

969
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 4: the NCAA has been i think hell bent on putting

970
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 4: the toothpaste back in the tube. It's not going back

971
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 4: in the tube. The toothpaste is on the table or

972
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 4: the toothbrush whatever, and now you want to use let's

973
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 4: call it what it is and let's figure out how

974
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 4: to work together to move forward instead of putting that

975
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 4: toothpaste back in the tube. So in the NCAA is

976
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 4: going we're going to start working together to create a

977
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:31,720
Speaker 4: sustainable system.

978
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:33,399
Speaker 3: Okay, so we have.

979
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 2: There's other obviously a bunch of other kind of things

980
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 2: that hoops to jump through before you get there. Okay,

981
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 2: So but in the in the short term, some sort

982
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 2: of accountability where people have to pay what they contract

983
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 2: to pay, and what else.

984
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 4: Rules around when contracts can be signed, how they can

985
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 4: be negotiated, when they can be negotiated right there should

986
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 4: the portal seasons would be called free agency, right it

987
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 4: should be for transfers, you can negotiate from here to hear,

988
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 4: this is when contracts can be negotiated and signed. These

989
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 4: are the rules around when a player can ask for

990
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 4: an agent can ask for an extension, you know, just

991
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 4: like we have in the NBA, right, Like, there needs

992
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 4: to be some parameters around what's acceptable and what isn't

993
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 4: so we can have a little bit of guardrails on

994
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 4: this chaos. Right. I think this system is not sustainable

995
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 4: of these external anile collectives again, like, let's call them

996
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 4: what they are, and let's you know, tie them to

997
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 4: the institutions and have situations where there can be like

998
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 4: we talked about performance bonuses and postseason bonuses and schools

999
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 4: directly raising money to give to the players. Sharing the

1000
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 4: TV revenue, Like I was speaking to some of the

1001
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 4: other day who proposed what if the conferences shared some

1002
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 4: of their TV revenue with the collectives? Right, Hey, there's

1003
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 4: two million a year to each collective from our TV

1004
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 4: our TV revenue is as a conference, right like starts

1005
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 4: taking the burden just solely off the shoulders of the boosters, Uh,

1006
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,399
Speaker 4: bringing some of that TV revenue in and tying the

1007
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 4: collectives to the schools. I think that's the problem with that.

1008
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 2: The problem with that is that money is generally all

1009
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 2: spoken for, so you can get it, but something's going

1010
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 2: to come up short, and we all know what that

1011
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 2: we we all know what that is, right, That's the

1012
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 2: only place they're going to cut is in the non

1013
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:30,240
Speaker 2: revenue generating sports.

1014
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 3: That's where the that's where the cuts at.

1015
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, in theory, yes, but like also we have you know,

1016
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,720
Speaker 4: these It's funny I see schools raising one hundred million,

1017
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 4: five hundred million for these crazy practice facilities and you know,

1018
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 4: building new arenas and like maybe some of those luxuries

1019
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 4: aren't quite as necessary with a kid.

1020
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 3: Rather, I listen, I agree with you.

1021
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,359
Speaker 2: Most of these coaches will tell you, like I don't

1022
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:54,879
Speaker 2: want a new facility, don't want any of that shit.

1023
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 2: But that all that in the collector, all that in.

1024
00:50:57,920 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 4: The collect Northwestern. But I think they built like a

1025
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,439
Speaker 4: nine one hundred million dollars nine hundred and thre hundred

1026
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 4: out of practice facility on the lake. I'm sure some

1027
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 4: of those players would have rather had a slightly less

1028
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,439
Speaker 4: a beautiful practice facility on the lake and a little

1029
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 4: more money in a pocket.

1030
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1031
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's always amazing. They all they all do things.

1032
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 2: And some of it they do because they get grants

1033
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 2: from the state, you know they can, and they get

1034
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 2: some academic money as well. There's okay, So so UH,

1035
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 2: guardrails for contracts in terms of timing and UH and

1036
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 2: some some fine print issues.

1037
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 3: You got to have accountability for non payers. What else?

1038
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 4: Well, one thing I would theoretically like to say is

1039
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 4: sometimes a certification program for agents, right like the NBA

1040
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 4: has You have to pass a test and pay dues

1041
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 4: to be an NBA certified agent, and and the NCAA

1042
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 4: anybody can just pop up and call themselves an Anisle agent.

1043
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 4: And there are people who are sabotage and play's career

1044
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 4: is ruining. I mean, it's it's it's it's tragic. But

1045
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 4: the question is who's in charge of certifying those agents.

1046
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 4: In the NBA, it's the players Union that certifies those agents.

1047
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 4: It's it's a it's an organization that is created to

1048
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 4: protect and defend their players, so they want these agents

1049
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 4: to be qualified. So it's not the NBA certifying the agents,

1050
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 4: it's a players union. So if the NCAA is in

1051
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:29,839
Speaker 4: charge of certifying agents, their incentives are different than if

1052
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 4: it was if it was the players. And we don't

1053
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 4: have a union yet, the players aren't even employees yet,

1054
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 4: so we're so far away from that, and so I

1055
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 4: don't know how we can get to a place where

1056
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 4: there's a vetting process for agents. Until we have that,

1057
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,439
Speaker 4: I mean, I've talked to the NCAA about their agent

1058
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 4: certification program for players who are testing the waters the

1059
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,240
Speaker 4: NBA waters right, and I think they want to create

1060
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 4: something for an il agents, but they really can't because

1061
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 4: if they're marketing deals, these are marketing companies that are

1062
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 4: giving marketing deals, not the institutions themselves. So the NCAA

1063
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 4: really their hands are tied. But I think we need

1064
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 4: to get to a point where there is some type

1065
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 4: of vetting process for agents, because there are some people

1066
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 4: who are doing some criminal things to kids' careers by

1067
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 4: just not knowing what they're doing.

1068
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 2: Right, You have guys who are kind of the old

1069
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 2: school runners and they're you know, moving pieces around and

1070
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 2: just to make a quick buck. And those people, some

1071
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: of them even actually it's not that they have anything

1072
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 2: any bad intentions, They just a little there. It's just

1073
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 2: a little too old school.

1074
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 4: I'll actually say some of those old school guys are

1075
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 4: better agents than some of these pop up agents. Like

1076
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 4: some old school AAU coaches know this market better than

1077
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 4: anybody know how to price a player cut a deal.

1078
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 4: Because They've been doing it for twenty years now. Some

1079
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,959
Speaker 4: AAU coaches and runners for years have been doing deals

1080
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 4: in pocketing the money, which is criminal, right. But there

1081
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 4: have been guys who have been helping kids families keep

1082
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 4: their lights on with you know, shoe box money for you,

1083
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 4: and they know this market better than anyone. But some

1084
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 4: of the worst actors I've seen in this place are

1085
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 4: actually like college kids or recent grads who read about

1086
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 4: NIL and call themselves an Nile agent, or reach out

1087
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 4: to kids on Instagram. And I get dms all the

1088
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 4: time because people will see my tweets or listen to

1089
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 4: our podcast, right. And I've had people say, hey, I've

1090
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 4: signed these five players, they're in the market, but I've

1091
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 4: never seen an anile collective contract. Can you send me

1092
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 4: one or can you tell me how to talk to

1093
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 4: a collective. I'm like, you're representing a player in the

1094
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 4: biggest decision of his career and you've never seen a

1095
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 4: collective contract. You don't know how to have the discussion.

1096
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 4: They're like, hey, do we talk to the collective now

1097
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 4: or when they get there? Like they don't even know

1098
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 4: how the process goes. There's no education in this other

1099
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 4: than listening to us talk on this podcast or reading

1100
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 4: me and Darren Heidner and Mitt Winner's tweets, and I

1101
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 4: think some of the worst actors I've seen are just

1102
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 4: like young people who call themselves agents and reach out

1103
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 4: to people on Instagram. And because you've got ANIL agent

1104
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 4: in your bio, you seem official and you are ruining

1105
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 4: people's careers.

1106
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 3: Sure, all right, let's do this.

1107
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 2: So we have basically one week left until the portal closes,

1108
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 2: so we'll see. As you point out, there's going to

1109
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 2: be probably some big names here. I'll throw out here

1110
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 2: that if you listen to this and you have any

1111
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 2: any sort of nil question, feel free to tweet us

1112
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 2: or hit us up on Instagram to d m us

1113
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 2: and we'll work it into a part three. And in

1114
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 2: the meantime, like you get hit with these questions all

1115
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:30,799
Speaker 2: the time, as do I like you, and I got

1116
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,959
Speaker 2: to keep like a better text chain going of it.

1117
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 2: We get the add that I think we're going on

1118
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 2: something else. But it's going to be an interesting week

1119
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 2: because you've had I know, there was one player. There's

1120
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 2: one player that everybody said he told people was a

1121
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 2: million dollars and he committed to a place, So I'd

1122
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 2: love to know if that was in fact a million

1123
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,720
Speaker 2: dollars at the end of the day, and then let's

1124
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 2: let's have a part three kind of wrap up discussion.

1125
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,800
Speaker 2: But yeah, so my my original rules that I thought

1126
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 2: would work would be that you didn't get nil you

1127
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 2: didn't get nil money until you played a game for

1128
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 2: your program. That that was my and I believe that

1129
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 2: you have to have retention bonuses like the whole way

1130
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 2: to use this to quote unquote save the sport and

1131
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 2: propel the sport because I think that there's a there's

1132
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 2: a window there where you can make it so that

1133
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:35,799
Speaker 2: it's better than it's ever been because guys will stay

1134
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 2: there two or three years and they're not going to

1135
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 2: be a second round or undrafted draft pick.

1136
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 3: Right.

1137
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:45,720
Speaker 2: But uh, but you gotta how do you create that window?

1138
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:47,879
Speaker 2: What do people want to see? They want to see

1139
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 2: the best players play at the biggest schools, but they

1140
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 2: want to see and for as long as possible they

1141
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 2: kind of fall in love with these kids, if you will.

1142
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 2: I thought that more tell your deals and you know

1143
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 2: it's with the new rule, it's not going to happen,

1144
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 2: so it doesn't even work. Bring it up I have

1145
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 2: thought that not sitting out on the second transfer is

1146
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 2: a mistake, like when you you don't have to be

1147
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,760
Speaker 2: fully engaged mentally because you can transfer and play anywhere.

1148
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 2: But again, that's not the path that they're choosing to

1149
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 2: fight right now. So I think the way to do

1150
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 2: it is you have to have some sort of retention bonuses.

1151
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 3: And I'm with you on.

1152
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 2: The buyouts, like, hey, you want to leave, sure, bye

1153
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 2: and go ahead, I'll be a buyout. I think those

1154
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 2: two things along with some sort of delayed gratification.

1155
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 3: Where you have to perform for your getting paid.

1156
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 2: And I understand the other side to it, right, The

1157
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 2: other side to it is, hey, they offer me this

1158
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 2: gargantuan some money, everybody says they don't have it, and

1159
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 2: if I don't get it July first, or you know,

1160
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 2: July fifteenth, when I've been on campus for a month,

1161
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 2: I'm out. So that's the other side to it, right

1162
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 2: that you have to you have to protect the student,

1163
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 2: not just protect the school. But there has to be

1164
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 2: some form of balance in protecting both sides.

1165
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I think retention bonuses are great. Graduation bonuses are great.

1166
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 4: Team performance bonuses are great. Multi year deals with biolts.

1167
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 4: Now biots have to go both ways. If you run

1168
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 4: a kid off, you gotta pay him. You got to

1169
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 4: buy him out of the right. And those are great,

1170
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 4: And I think it would be fine if you don't

1171
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 4: get paid unil you play for the school. If we

1172
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 4: talked about there was some type of governing body where

1173
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 4: if the money doesn't get paid, there's legal repercussions and

1174
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 4: you can collect on that money like we have in overseas.

1175
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 4: We have FEBA that you know, can can enforce that.

1176
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 4: So I think me and you are having these conversations,

1177
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 4: and everyone should be having these conversations. Who are you know,

1178
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 4: stakeholders in the sport to move these things forward? You

1179
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 4: know again, what we're doing right here is trying to

1180
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 4: think of ideas and no one has all the answers.

1181
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 4: But we get instead of his complaining about the way

1182
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 4: things have changed, let's continue having no one has answers.

1183
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 4: I am knee deep in this thing every single day

1184
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 4: up to my eyeballs. I'm going to pick up my

1185
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 4: phone and have fifty calls. But I don't have all

1186
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 4: the answers. All I have is some ideas and a

1187
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 4: desire for this thing to stabilize because I love college

1188
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 4: basketball and I grew up doing some fourteen years old.

1189
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 4: My best friends in the world are all college coaches,

1190
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 4: and I just want to move this thing forward, just

1191
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 4: like you do. We've created built our lives on this sport,

1192
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 4: and I think instead of just complaining and bitching about

1193
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 4: how everything's bad, like, let's just continue having these conversations

1194
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 4: between me and you, between college coaches, between the NCAA,

1195
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 4: between the agents, between the players, between the AAU coaches,

1196
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 4: so we can all put our ideas together and fare

1197
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 4: out how to move this thing forward. Because there is

1198
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 4: a path forward, like you said, where there can be

1199
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 4: a better future than there was before. No one, I

1200
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 4: don't think anyone thinks the past was great, where coaches

1201
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 4: are making millions of dollars and kids' families can't afford

1202
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 4: to fly to see him play, and the only way

1203
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 4: to do it is for a coach to illegally give

1204
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 4: part of his salary and risk going to jail to

1205
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 4: help keep that kid's lights on. No one thinks that

1206
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 4: was the right system, but we all know that this

1207
00:59:58,160 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 4: isn't the right system either.

1208
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 2: No, No, I do, but I do wonder like whenever

1209
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 2: we put any even even if we get a collectively

1210
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 2: bargain upon agreement, right, and again your years down the road.

1211
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 2: Basketball has been an under the table pay sport forever, right,

1212
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 2: So it's like, hey, we can.

1213
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 3: Only pay a kid two fifty, Like, do we really

1214
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 3: think that that's what it's going to be. So that's that.

1215
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 4: But look, you're right, but the more the salaries are,

1216
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 4: the less the under the table is relevant. When the

1217
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 4: salaries are zero, that fifty grand in the shoe box

1218
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 4: means a lot. When the salaries are four hundred thousand,

1219
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 4: that fifty grand in going. It's funny. I noticed this.

1220
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 4: I had this observation in the agent game recently. So

1221
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 4: it used to be some agencies would pay huge upfront

1222
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 4: sums to players to sign with them for the draft, right,

1223
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 4: two hundred grand to get you a late first round pick. Well,

1224
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 4: now players are late first round picks are coming out

1225
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 4: with five hundred thousand in the bank. The agent can't

1226
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 4: buy them anymore. They have to pick. They're generally in a.

1227
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 3: Pick energy, so it affects It affects the pro world

1228
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 3: that they already have money, so there's not the desperation

1229
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 3: in once once they get to the pro world. Just

1230
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 3: to side with an agent.

1231
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:12,520
Speaker 4: It's a lot harder to buy a draft pick, which

1232
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 4: is great for me because I've never had the resources

1233
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 4: to buy a draft pick in the first place. So

1234
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 4: now guys are picking based much more based on, you know,

1235
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 4: all things being equal, because you know that money doesn't

1236
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 4: go as far. And I think to your point, the

1237
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 4: shoe box money, Yeah, when there's a collectively bargained you know,

1238
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 4: a system, Yeah, there might still be cheating, but the

1239
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 4: cheating is going to have much less of an impact

1240
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 4: because that you know, the under the table money is

1241
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 4: going to be so much less than you know, in theory,

1242
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 4: than what the salaries will be. So again to your point,

1243
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 4: your earlier point, there is a brighter future here where

1244
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 4: things could be great. We saw, you know, Armando Baycot

1245
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 4: stay in college five years because he could have been

1246
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 4: a two way player, but he kept coming back to

1247
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,040
Speaker 4: North Carolina. We've seen this with a few guys who

1248
01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 4: have stayed in college longer because that that money is

1249
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 4: good and they can stay and developed. That's great. They're

1250
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 4: gonna be got more guys graduating. There's going to be

1251
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 4: there's so much upside.

1252
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, like even the Kofe Coburn story is

1253
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 2: a terrible story for him, but it's a great story

1254
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 2: for other big guys. Right, Like he leaves Illinois, could

1255
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 2: have played one more year, doesn't play for a year

1256
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 2: because he thought, you know whatever, he was making an

1257
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 2: Illinois like that's what he should be playing for, and

1258
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,479
Speaker 2: that's like not the reality. And now I think he's playing.

1259
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 2: I think he went and played the Philippines whatever. But

1260
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 2: it's more. And you know, you hate it for Kobe,

1261
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 2: but you like it for the best, Like, hey, dude,

1262
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 2: you could stay here and have and have a hell

1263
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 2: of a have a five year run where you're valued

1264
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 2: as opposed to going out in the real in the

1265
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 2: pro world, where you're not nearly as valued anymore because

1266
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 2: of your position.

1267
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 4: I had this conversation this morning with the recruit and

1268
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 4: his mother where he has two years left and he's

1269
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 4: signing a one year deal for two hundred K, and

1270
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 4: I'm like, hey, buddy, you played well. Next year, you

1271
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 4: could make three hundred. He's like, oh, no, next year,

1272
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go pro no matter what I said, No,

1273
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 4: no you're not. Because if next year you could stay

1274
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 4: there and get your degree and your other best option

1275
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 4: is going to Finland for thirty K. You're going to

1276
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 4: take that three hundred and you're going to get your degree.

1277
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 4: We're not just I know in your head you think

1278
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 4: that's a good idea, but it's not a good idea.

1279
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 4: And I think we're going to see more and more

1280
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 4: guys staying, staying longer, graduating now that. On the other hand,

1281
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:27,000
Speaker 4: there's the multi transfer progress towards degree conversation of credits transferring.

1282
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 4: But that's I think two in the weeds for this

1283
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:33,400
Speaker 4: audience for now. Even though every college basketball coach listens

1284
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 4: to this podcast, I had no idea everybody listens to

1285
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 4: the podcast. So hey, all my friends listening to this,

1286
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 4: I know you all know what I'm talking about with

1287
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 4: the progress towards degree issues we're dealing with right now

1288
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 4: with multi time transfers. But I guess we can get

1289
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 4: into that next time.

1290
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 2: Well let's say that next time, okay, because you also

1291
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 2: have the progress or agree you have the online online classes,

1292
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 2: which is an issue at some of these schools right

1293
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 2: they don't want to take online classes and anything else that

1294
01:03:57,480 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 2: comes up in this last week and a half in

1295
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 2: the portal, and then we'll get to you get to

1296
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 2: part three.

1297
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, we never want to get into the weeds of

1298
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 4: the academic Yes, Black Cities. I'm not the foremost expert.

1299
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 4: We should bring on like Brandon Goebel or someone or

1300
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 4: maybe just like a college coach, because there is we.

1301
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 3: Can bring on Geobal.

1302
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 2: I think Goble has been on before. We can bring

1303
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 2: on Goobal. I got no issue with that.

1304
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 4: With Goebel's my transcript. Man, I'm like, yo, Gooble, look

1305
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 4: at this. This is this kid going to be able

1306
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 4: to transfer. He's got to stay put. He's a wizard

1307
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 4: with it. I don't know how he does it.

1308
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 2: All right, brother, I appreciate you joining me. Now you

1309
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 2: get both phone calls to make. Thanks for being my guest.

1310
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 4: All right, thanks so much for having me again.

1311
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 2: All mine. Thanks to Dan Paraman. What a talented guy

1312
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 2: with a great presence and way of presenting all his answers.

1313
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 2: Truly appreciate his time. My thanks to you as well

1314
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 2: for listening. Reminder, if you want to listen to the

1315
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 2: Doug Gotlib Show, do so daily three to five Eastern

1316
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 2: twelve to two Pacific, or listen. We have an hour

1317
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 2: pod that is unfiltered, unedited and it's really cool. It's

1318
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 2: called in the Bonus check it all out. Where we

1319
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 2: download this find, you can download that one as well.

1320
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 2: I'm Doug, gotta leave.

1321
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 4: This is all ball

1322
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 2: H