Speaker 1: Crime. Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Real
Speaker 1: Time Crime. I'm your host Lee Lamar and I have
Speaker 1: with me actually back our friends sometimes oftentimes Dmitri and
Speaker 1: now I deserve this sometimes because I was not here
Speaker 1: last time. So it's true you've been demoted back to sometimes. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that sticks. I think that that nickname resonates
Speaker 1: with everyone anyway, so I would agree with that and
Speaker 1: my little social slukes. Today, we've got a crazy episode
Speaker 1: in the store for you. We've got a lot of guests, Like, uh,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of guests today, so we're not gonna
Speaker 1: do hot topics. We're just gonna talk about a lot
Speaker 1: of big cases. Dmitri, how do you feel about this?
Speaker 1: Not that you have a say yeah, no, can I answer? Now?
Speaker 1: That's cool with you? Um, I like it because listen,
Speaker 1: everybody wants to talk crime, right, That's why they're is this.
Speaker 1: That's why there's a podcast, and that's why there's you know,
Speaker 1: so many shows and stuff age. Everyone wants to talk
Speaker 1: about it. Get some other people in here, let's get
Speaker 1: some some different views and stuff like that and find
Speaker 1: out what's really going on. That's how you solve cases.
Speaker 1: So just so everyone knows we're going to be deep
Speaker 1: diving into the amber heard Johnny Depp case. Again. We
Speaker 1: are all captivated by this case. And if you're not,
Speaker 1: I mean, no offense, but you don't really understand good entertainment. Um,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna be talking with one of the biggest
Speaker 1: entertainment lawyers in Hollywood who's going to tell us what
Speaker 1: she thinks is going to happen at the end of
Speaker 1: this case. We'll pick her brain about it a little
Speaker 1: bit as well, and then we're going to get into
Speaker 1: talking with two of the producers of ABC's Who Do
Speaker 1: You Believe, which is a new true crime show. And
Speaker 1: you guys, this is gonna be a great episode. I'm
Speaker 1: very excited. Also, just let everyone know I'm going to
Speaker 1: a visa literally right after this. I've never been to Europe.
Speaker 1: I don't know how that's possible. Really, yeah, I know. See,
Speaker 1: even Demitria surprised. What you look like. Your your world
Speaker 1: traveler like you you've you know, so I just assumed
Speaker 1: that you had been everywhere. Thank you. I'm actually been
Speaker 1: living in a bubble pretty much my whole life, and
Speaker 1: I've decided that i need to see the world. So
Speaker 1: every episode. I'll be in a different place for the
Speaker 1: next almost month. Hey, so, if you happen to be
Speaker 1: a fan of the podcast and you live in Dubai,
Speaker 1: I'll be there at the very end of my trip
Speaker 1: doing a comedy festival. So if you want to come
Speaker 1: meet up in person, let me know. And guys, let's
Speaker 1: waste no more time. We got to talk about our
Speaker 1: first guest, who is absolutely stunning and intelligent and successful
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited she's on the podcast today. She's
Speaker 1: a Beverly Hills based entertainment attorney. Her name is Mitra
Speaker 1: are In. She's represented every type of player in Hollywood,
Speaker 1: from actors, every type of player, including my ex Okay,
Speaker 1: I mean it's like you knew it was coming, all right.
Speaker 1: From actors, musicians, producers, movie studios, book publishers. Her longtime
Speaker 1: clients have included Justin Baldoni, Oh I love him, NFL
Speaker 1: player Ryan Claudy, the world famous Magic Castle. She just
Speaker 1: reps the Magic Castle casually. That's pretty wild. She's done
Speaker 1: deals for Larry King, Bill Maher Rain Wilson, Penn Badgeley,
Speaker 1: Ja Shetty. Not only does she have firsthand knowledge on
Speaker 1: a wide range of issues including intellectual property, copyright infringement, incorporation,
Speaker 1: show business contracts, and sexual harassment plates. But she has
Speaker 1: been closely following amber Heard's defamation trial. Why do I
Speaker 1: say defamation every time? I'm not sure, I think because
Speaker 1: after that one story, I'm you're afraid that you're gonna
Speaker 1: say defecation. So I think you just kind of tweak
Speaker 1: it defamation. It's it's the defamation defication trial. Sadly, it
Speaker 1: is the deafamation death vaication trap. We should make a musical.
Speaker 1: We should make a musical. Um, Okay, so you guys,
Speaker 1: basically moral of the story is she's going to come on,
Speaker 1: Mitra is incredible. She's gonna share some insight on the
Speaker 1: Johnny Depp amber Heard story, and maybe we can slowly
Speaker 1: or very quickly ask her about Mike Tyson and asap Rocky.
Speaker 1: Let's see. All right, please, welcome to the show, Mitra.
Speaker 1: How's it going. Hello, Oh my gosh, it's nice to
Speaker 1: meet you. To me, just so you know, I've already
Speaker 1: introduced you. I can just just imagine feeling very loved
Speaker 1: with a very big, flattering introduction. We're so exciting, said,
Speaker 1: but okay, you know, yeah, only only the best things,
Speaker 1: only your biggest credits, all of it. They were Honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm still learning how to read. And it was a lot,
Speaker 1: so thank you. Um, you know, it was just like intelligent, successful,
Speaker 1: gorgeous killing It worked with all the stars, but then
Speaker 1: named them all, you know. And then there was a
Speaker 1: gas when we got to the Magic Castle. There was
Speaker 1: a bit of gasp from both of us. We gasped.
Speaker 1: I was like, the whole Magic Castle is your client. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's wild. For people who don't live in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, you don't know how legendary the Magic Castle is,
Speaker 1: and that's a you problem. But but it is a
Speaker 1: destination where it's worth coming to l A just to
Speaker 1: go to the Magic Castle. I actually know it sounds crazy.
Speaker 1: Hate magic. I have magic phobia. Well I know, except
Speaker 1: for when I go to the Magic Castle because I
Speaker 1: get so nervous that they're not going to finish their
Speaker 1: trick and it just performers anxiety. It's performers anxiety. And
Speaker 1: so every time I even went on a date with
Speaker 1: this guy once and he hired a magician. Is a
Speaker 1: long story, but I was like this, I mean, you're
Speaker 1: not gonna get a second date. Yeah, surprisingly we're not
Speaker 1: married anyway, Enough about me, Mitra, let's just jump right in.
Speaker 1: Weird you're here? Sorry, go ahead? Do you feel good
Speaker 1: about that one? To me? Do you know what? It
Speaker 1: came to me? And I was just like, you know what,
Speaker 1: that's gotta be seen? Sorry, go ahead? Oh boy, Okay,
Speaker 1: he really would have had to pull a rabbit out
Speaker 1: of a hat to get a second date. Okay, we're
Speaker 1: moving on anyway. All right, Okay, I'm gonna go back
Speaker 1: in the waiting room and come back. Guys are done
Speaker 1: with whatever this is. Okay, I'm like interview, so sorry,
Speaker 1: come on one this morning. Um, Metra, can you tell
Speaker 1: us what is the latest with the Johnny Depp and
Speaker 1: Amber Heard trial. First of all, this has been the
Speaker 1: most amazing case to cover. Um, it's like so many
Speaker 1: emotions happening. It's sad. Um, it's hard to see, you know,
Speaker 1: a celebrity you know and love kind of airing it
Speaker 1: all out like that. Um. There are times when he's
Speaker 1: charming and funny and you know, and it's really kind
Speaker 1: of hard to imagine that in order to get justice
Speaker 1: a celebrity has to go through all of this and really,
Speaker 1: Era all his dirty laundry. So as far as the updates. Um.
Speaker 1: But so we started with the plaintiff's case, which is
Speaker 1: Johnny Depp sued Amber heard right, and then of course
Speaker 1: she countersued for the same thing for defamation for what
Speaker 1: he alleged in his lawsuit, basically that she was a liar. Um.
Speaker 1: And so he sues her for defamation. And defamation we
Speaker 1: all know is like something that somebody says about you
Speaker 1: that's negative, or somebody puts something in print that's negative. Um.
Speaker 1: But for a celebrity, they have to also go beyond
Speaker 1: that and show that they did it with malice so
Speaker 1: maliciously meaning knowing it was, knowing it was false, or
Speaker 1: not caring if those false. Um. So Johnny's lawyers kind
Speaker 1: of started by, you know what I like to call
Speaker 1: the character development phase of a trial, which is very
Speaker 1: much like a movie. You're kind of introducing Johnny Depp
Speaker 1: as the character. Um, you know, his childhood. It started
Speaker 1: with testimony of his sister talking about when he was
Speaker 1: a kid and was abused and also describing kind of
Speaker 1: the learned adaptive behaviors that he picked up as a kid,
Speaker 1: which is getting you know, kind of escaping from the
Speaker 1: abuse or staying out of the line of fire, so
Speaker 1: to speak. Um, and then sort of went through the
Speaker 1: dynamic of their relationship with Amber being the aggressor and
Speaker 1: the one that's constantly sort of poking at him, and
Speaker 1: you know, even played some recordings of her admitting to
Speaker 1: having hit him. I hit you, I hate you, sort
Speaker 1: of stuff like that, and um. And then after that,
Speaker 1: you know, they get to cross exam and him on
Speaker 1: the other side, and that's when sort of the ugly
Speaker 1: stuff comes out. So can I ask you a quick question?
Speaker 1: So it's funny because we think that we know somebody,
Speaker 1: especially when they're an active you think you know. So
Speaker 1: the character set up is always quite fascinating because you
Speaker 1: learned so much more about someone that you kind of
Speaker 1: even though we know we know don't know them, we
Speaker 1: think we do. Um, how do you think his team
Speaker 1: did with his character set up? I think they did
Speaker 1: a great job. They made him look really vulnerable. Sometimes
Speaker 1: celebrities are really larger than life, and so you know,
Speaker 1: and it's and like you said, it's really hard to
Speaker 1: distinguish what we know about them as characters and what
Speaker 1: we also project on celebrities as you know, this is
Speaker 1: who we think they are, who we want them to be.
Speaker 1: So they presented him as this, you know, this guy
Speaker 1: who has had addiction problems but also created empathy around
Speaker 1: that with his you know, sort of his abuse and
Speaker 1: all of that, um and his struggles to get sober.
Speaker 1: And so I think they did a really really good
Speaker 1: job of humanizing him, and that's key when you're in
Speaker 1: any lawsuit. Yeah. So, I mean I have a million questions,
Speaker 1: but you know, I see him as Captain Jack Sparrow
Speaker 1: on the stand. You know, he's so charming and he's
Speaker 1: without even trying to hilarious. You know, his use of
Speaker 1: language is so unique, and the fact that he even
Speaker 1: when he's insulting someone, he's like, refers to her as
Speaker 1: a slippery whore. It's like, what, you know, do you
Speaker 1: think that these elements of charm will and his you know,
Speaker 1: humor so to speak. You know, when he's correcting, um,
Speaker 1: correcting them when they're asking, oh is that right, and
Speaker 1: he's like, no, it's not best of luck, it's best
Speaker 1: if luck. Yeah, he's good, but I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: he's a good actor. But I honestly, I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: this feels like they are shooting a movie that we're
Speaker 1: all watching in real time, like we're all on the
Speaker 1: Truman Show. But do you think that that sort of
Speaker 1: element of charm and humor will help him in the
Speaker 1: trial or do you think that ultimately people will see
Speaker 1: through it or they won't be able to identify that
Speaker 1: as as something that would help him in the trial. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good question. So you got to think like
Speaker 1: a jury, right, so you are going to be here
Speaker 1: for six weeks not able to look at anything because
Speaker 1: you know, it's a high profile case, so you're not
Speaker 1: allowed to really look at anything outside of what's going
Speaker 1: on in that courtroom. Some of it's really boring. Some
Speaker 1: of it drags out. I mean some of the questions
Speaker 1: that lawyers have to ask are really foundational or you
Speaker 1: know kind of no one cares in a sense, but
Speaker 1: they have to kind of lay things out legally. So
Speaker 1: it's you know, hours and hours a day. So if
Speaker 1: I were on a jury, I'd be like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: thank god somebody made me laugh or thank god I
Speaker 1: saw like some emotion or some personality or something, because
Speaker 1: you kind of need those moments, you know, of like
Speaker 1: comic relief or entertainment. Um, so I can't imagine that
Speaker 1: would that would hurt him. You know what's interesting too,
Speaker 1: is that when stuff like Lea pointed out like like oh,
Speaker 1: he's like, no, it's not of it's if like when
Speaker 1: correcting those things, if I'm on a jury, if I'm
Speaker 1: just thinking from a differ, from a different perspective, he's
Speaker 1: correcting it to make sure that they get the smallest awards, right.
Speaker 1: So in my mind, I'm like, oh, this guy's this
Speaker 1: guy's a stickler for details. He's telling the truth. He's
Speaker 1: making sure that everything's right. So subliminally, subconsciously, as it
Speaker 1: goes on, I'm thinking, oh, he's telling me the truth
Speaker 1: because he's corrected the Yeah, he's he's come off as
Speaker 1: really credible, as authentic. Um as you know you believe him.
Speaker 1: Um he was. I mean they really leaned into the
Speaker 1: drug abuse and the alcoholism his lawyers did before the
Speaker 1: defense even had a chance to bring it up, basically
Speaker 1: getting rid of that surprise factor or that sting that
Speaker 1: you know they're going to come in and say, well,
Speaker 1: he was an addict, and you know, ad ex abuse
Speaker 1: people and they block out, they don't know what they
Speaker 1: do and all of that, but they leaned into that,
Speaker 1: which made him super vulnerable and really credible, and I
Speaker 1: think that that was that, I mean, obviously very deliberate,
Speaker 1: but like you said, you know, he also senses when
Speaker 1: they're trying to catch him in something he said before
Speaker 1: and kind of twist and minipulate his words, so instead
Speaker 1: of giving them the yes or no that they want,
Speaker 1: he sort of is like clarifying, which is really smart. Okay,
Speaker 1: so sorry, I just wanted to piggyback on something that
Speaker 1: you brought up before, which was that if you're on
Speaker 1: the jury, you're not allowed to be watching clips of
Speaker 1: the trial online, you know, or check them out. It's
Speaker 1: almost like you're in a quarantine again. Yep. But I
Speaker 1: remember reading just maybe last week that one of Johnny's witnesses,
Speaker 1: Georgina Dooders, was dismissed from the trial because she watched
Speaker 1: clips of the trial online allegedly and because Amber Heard's
Speaker 1: friend was watching in the courtroom. Man now she's Eve
Speaker 1: Barlow has now since been banned from the courtroom because
Speaker 1: of this um and also apparently her dramatic nature and
Speaker 1: tweeting and texting from the front row of the courtroom,
Speaker 1: which is something that usually people who are just friends
Speaker 1: of someone on trial don't really have the privilege of
Speaker 1: doing right. Um, but do you think that you know
Speaker 1: this will hurt his case? Do you think that? Um?
Speaker 1: I mean I read that it seemed like it was
Speaker 1: going to be a blow to the case. But do
Speaker 1: you think that he'll have enough to go off of
Speaker 1: to win. Well, we don't know what her testimony was
Speaker 1: going to be, and usually the testimony is like a
Speaker 1: big piece of the puzzle, right the way they're going
Speaker 1: to tell the story. Um, it didn't hurt them that
Speaker 1: she did that, because you know, the judge even said
Speaker 1: it was kind of obvious that they didn't know. She said,
Speaker 1: I believe you guys that you didn't know that this happened. Um,
Speaker 1: So that was okay, didn't kind of get you know,
Speaker 1: they didn't get out of the good racist of the judge.
Speaker 1: But in terms of storytelling, they're going to have to
Speaker 1: find a way to kind of connect the dots without her. Okay. Also,
Speaker 1: there is a rumor that Amber's lawyer quit. Is that true?
Speaker 1: I didn't hear that. Okay, I don't think so, because
Speaker 1: he's still the main there's two main lawyers. Um, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna love it when I hit one of them.
Speaker 1: His name's Rotten Born. Um, and everyone like you can't
Speaker 1: when you're commenting on this and you just can't not
Speaker 1: can't make fun of that. But those are the things
Speaker 1: that you change. Yeah, does that not get change? Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean so yeah, that's you know, he's in a
Speaker 1: very public case and people cannot help but bring that up.
Speaker 1: But um, but those two are definitely there. They have
Speaker 1: obviously a team of lawyers, so there's a lot of
Speaker 1: people that are also there that might be, um, you know,
Speaker 1: involved kind of behind the scenes. Um, but as far
Speaker 1: as I can tell, everyone's still there. Okay. So also,
Speaker 1: just on the note of them continually bringing up him
Speaker 1: being quote unquote a monster when he's drawn or on drugs,
Speaker 1: and that he's an addict and that you know, Elton
Speaker 1: John tried to help him get sober and he gets
Speaker 1: aggressive when he's drunk and all these different things. I
Speaker 1: thought that it was interesting that they were like, oh,
Speaker 1: when you do drugs or when you get drunk with
Speaker 1: Marilyn Manson. It's like he gets drunk with everyone, not
Speaker 1: just Marilyn Manson. So I'm wondering do you think that
Speaker 1: they keep trying to align him with Maryland so that
Speaker 1: people's perception of him is that he is painted in
Speaker 1: a more negative light. Because okay, one, because he was
Speaker 1: I think he was convicted of abuse or play guilty too,
Speaker 1: amusing a woman too, and just he's I mean, everyone
Speaker 1: knows he's like weird, right, no matter, just yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I will say I was at Marilyn Manson's birthday party
Speaker 1: five years ago, six five, and Giant Up was there,
Speaker 1: Courtney Love was there, and everyone was quote unquote having
Speaker 1: a good time. So um, but I would say probably
Speaker 1: one of the more magical musical performances I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: Not that I'm sure that must have been because you
Speaker 1: don't drink, right, so that must have been quite an
Speaker 1: event for you to be there with all those heavy
Speaker 1: party ers just watching. Well, I mean, this is like
Speaker 1: the story of my life. Okay. So so okay, Mitra,
Speaker 1: you know, we have photo and video evidence of him
Speaker 1: having bruises on his face, of her having bruises on
Speaker 1: her on her face, um, of him saying, you know,
Speaker 1: she like burst open the bathroom door and bashed his head,
Speaker 1: and you know they have a very violent relationship and
Speaker 1: it's super intense and filled with drama. I mean, at
Speaker 1: this point, I don't know if I feel like I
Speaker 1: really can tell who's in the right or the wrong,
Speaker 1: because there's a part of me that's like, deep down,
Speaker 1: if I look into my self, do I think that
Speaker 1: Johnny Depp is just very charismatic and I love him
Speaker 1: and so I just believe him more. Um, But then again,
Speaker 1: I you know, Amber Heard did ship the bed and
Speaker 1: leave it there, so you know, a lot of questions,
Speaker 1: but how do you think this will turn out? So
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are sort of struggling
Speaker 1: with what you're you know, what you're describing is we
Speaker 1: love Johnny Depp. We don't want to believe that he
Speaker 1: was the aggressor here. You know, today we have testimony
Speaker 1: from a psychologist saying Amber Heard has porterline personality disorder.
Speaker 1: And you know, she's clearly from the videos and the
Speaker 1: audio that we're hearing, I mean, she's got a lot
Speaker 1: of issues too, and she's causing a lot of this.
Speaker 1: Their own marriage counselor described them as being mutually abusive.
Speaker 1: So I think that's kind of like we recognize, you know,
Speaker 1: we either some people have been or they know people
Speaker 1: who have just been in these toxic relationships where their
Speaker 1: traumas are attracted to each other and they can't get out,
Speaker 1: like they are horrible to one another, but they love
Speaker 1: each other. And it just sounds like that. So if
Speaker 1: there's anyone on the jury that kind of knows people
Speaker 1: like that or has been in a relationship like that,
Speaker 1: or even is just watching the evidence, is like, you,
Speaker 1: guys are both involved in this somehow, you know. So
Speaker 1: that's going to make the case really hard for him
Speaker 1: to prove. It's so interesting because she keeps filming him
Speaker 1: when he doesn't know he's being filmed, and it's like,
Speaker 1: are you doing that because you were trying to show
Speaker 1: people the abuse because it's happened so many times, or
Speaker 1: because you are trying to trap someone and somehow catch
Speaker 1: them in a moment out of context, you know? I mean,
Speaker 1: I just yeah, So so you don't so do you
Speaker 1: feel like you know who will come out on top
Speaker 1: in this case? I think that the jury is going
Speaker 1: to be kind of tired of hearing all this after
Speaker 1: six weeks, and they're gonna be I think there's enough
Speaker 1: there to really say that they were both involved in
Speaker 1: the abuse and there's different kinds of abuse, right, So
Speaker 1: it's not just physical. There's a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: emotional abuse and psychological abuse. I mean the kind of
Speaker 1: the stuff you hear her saying about, like why would
Speaker 1: you or want to work with you? You know, like
Speaker 1: they they are a classy brand, like why would they
Speaker 1: want why would they want you? Like stuff like that,
Speaker 1: you know, or it's like it's super degrading and just
Speaker 1: not a healthy, healthy relationships. So I think people are
Speaker 1: going to see that and not be able to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: this was a one way thing. Do you think there's
Speaker 1: any way that she goes and testifies and just ruins
Speaker 1: it for herself. You know, it's interesting they have, UM,
Speaker 1: they have people like like you know, people study human behavior,
Speaker 1: UM sort of watching her. She's been really good about
Speaker 1: kind of having this very stoic, like straight face, trying
Speaker 1: not to react to too many things. But there's people
Speaker 1: that are observing her, you know, especially with the case
Speaker 1: like this, when you have millions of dollars being spent
Speaker 1: on legal fees, everyone's interpreting and analyzing everything that happens
Speaker 1: in that courtroom, from every single juror you know, to her.
Speaker 1: And I was watching this thing. Um it was actually
Speaker 1: on air with this woman who was um like observing
Speaker 1: her microbe expressions, and there was a moment where she
Speaker 1: was expressing like contempt because just like one side of
Speaker 1: her cheek was up like you couldn't even notice it.
Speaker 1: So I think that if people, and I think people
Speaker 1: kind of feel those things like they don't realize what's
Speaker 1: happening necessarily, but that's how we kind of gauge people,
Speaker 1: is like body language. So I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of ways where she can she can hurt herself, and
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be an uphill battle for
Speaker 1: her just because she's going second. We've heard so much
Speaker 1: about her. Mm hmm. Okay, Tom too. Do you have
Speaker 1: any final questions or can we move on? We have
Speaker 1: a couple of moments with Mitra and I want to
Speaker 1: slide in a couple of Mike Tyson questions, a couple
Speaker 1: of eyes after hockey questions. Yeah, no, I want to
Speaker 1: as well. Okay, awesome, Semitra. I know because we don't
Speaker 1: have that much time with you, we also just want
Speaker 1: to ask you quickly, what do you think is going
Speaker 1: to happen with the Mike Tyson incident? You know, do
Speaker 1: you see I mean, like, do you think he'll get
Speaker 1: charged for punching the other passenger even though he was
Speaker 1: the one being provoked? I think so. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think physical is a whole another level. You know, that's
Speaker 1: that's sort of you know, it's there's a separate line
Speaker 1: for physical um, and that's that's battery. Um. And so
Speaker 1: I think there's a criminal element. There's also federal like
Speaker 1: federal laws when in the in an airplane. Um. And
Speaker 1: so there's those kinds of laws that are specific to
Speaker 1: being on board with a plane where people can't really
Speaker 1: escape and you're you know, threatening the lives of other people. UM.
Speaker 1: So there's an issue with that, and people take that
Speaker 1: really seriously because of not only terrorism, but because of
Speaker 1: the stuff we've seen with the mask bandate and people
Speaker 1: getting kind of aggressive with flight attendants. UM. And then
Speaker 1: of course, you know, the guy that got beat up
Speaker 1: is going to sue Mike Tyson and get a lot
Speaker 1: of money. M hmm. Do you think Mike Tyson will
Speaker 1: have will be eligible to counter sue. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I'll certainly try because a lot
Speaker 1: of times these things happen, things people countersuit to kind
Speaker 1: of protect their image. But it's probably something that's going
Speaker 1: to settle that we might not even hear about. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: And do you think that this will get Mike Tyson
Speaker 1: on some sort of like no fly list or does
Speaker 1: hee kind of walk around scotfree after this? I mean
Speaker 1: this also is really interesting. Yeah, I mean this also
Speaker 1: feels reminiscent of Will Smith and Chris Rock. It's like,
Speaker 1: even though Chris Rock didn't press any charges, Will Smith
Speaker 1: did face a lot of consequences and he's not allowed
Speaker 1: back at the OSCARS for ten years. Yeah. So with
Speaker 1: Mike Tyson, I mean, no finalists. I don't know what
Speaker 1: the rules are around that specifically, but definitely not whatever
Speaker 1: that airline was. And also Mike Tyson should be flying
Speaker 1: private anyway because he's Mike Tyson. Don't shots fired? Shots fired? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You know what his thought when he punched the guy
Speaker 1: in the face is probably like, why am I still
Speaker 1: flying commercial? Right? How did it here? Yeah? Let me
Speaker 1: make sure I never have to fly commercial again. I
Speaker 1: know a way. I'm only one row away from a
Speaker 1: guy like this commander right, dear lord, that Mike Tyson.
Speaker 1: It's just it's weird because when you're that famous, I
Speaker 1: didn't even know you could fly commercial. How do you
Speaker 1: walk through the airport? It's rough, Yeah, it is rough.
Speaker 1: I mean I have a lot of clients obviously who
Speaker 1: you know, are flying because the projects that they work
Speaker 1: on are not paying for private planes. They're typically paying
Speaker 1: for it for class trouble, and so they're all Most celebrities,
Speaker 1: unless they're arranging or going through something other than work,
Speaker 1: you might catch them in an airport at some point.
Speaker 1: So that's why you see people with bodyguards. I guess
Speaker 1: my cousin doesn't need a bodyguard, right hilarious is an
Speaker 1: extra fee for being his own bodyguard, right, Yeah. So
Speaker 1: if you wanna catch a celebrity, just hang out at
Speaker 1: L a X all day you might see one. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And lastly, just real quick, so we want to ask
Speaker 1: about the asap Rocky arrest. Do you think that he
Speaker 1: knew or that we knew that this was coming when
Speaker 1: he landed back in the States after all the drama
Speaker 1: with him in Rihanna and their little vacation after the
Speaker 1: whole cheating incident. I don't think so. Um, because usually
Speaker 1: when something like that happens, people call the cops. You know,
Speaker 1: people do something right away. Why didn't Why weren't the
Speaker 1: cops called in that moment, especially if there was an injury? Right, So,
Speaker 1: now we're months later, months down the line, which always
Speaker 1: makes the cop, the police's case a lot harder anyway,
Speaker 1: because you don't really have the evidence that you had before.
Speaker 1: You're not right there on the scene where people are
Speaker 1: fresh with their memories. Um. So, I mean, and I
Speaker 1: also think anytime you have someone in the press living
Speaker 1: their best life and someone's like, now you're out there
Speaker 1: living your best life and you try to shoot me, No,
Speaker 1: it's a little damper on things. Yeah, that's a good
Speaker 1: way of putting it. Yeah, boy, I mean all right, well, Dmitri,
Speaker 1: do you have any final questions? Real quick? Is there
Speaker 1: any has there ever been in a case where you're
Speaker 1: representing somebody and you're like, I cannot touch this. I'm
Speaker 1: not doing this for either moral reason or you and
Speaker 1: you don't have to tell us what it was. But
Speaker 1: is the one where you're just like, I'm out of here.
Speaker 1: I've I've actually had to let go of clients because
Speaker 1: I felt like they were they were the problem. Um
Speaker 1: in a lot of situations. Yeah, it was. It just
Speaker 1: kind of became clear that like, this is you. This
Speaker 1: is not right now, It's not me, it's you. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and you know, I'm really lucky. I have
Speaker 1: my own firm and I started it because I want
Speaker 1: to work with people I love and I believe in.
Speaker 1: I work with a lot of artists and um and
Speaker 1: producers who want to change the world, and there for
Speaker 1: the most part, really good people. So I kinda I'm
Speaker 1: I'm lucky to be able to sort of pass on
Speaker 1: people that that I'm like, yeah, you're not. Like. There
Speaker 1: was one guy. Remember I can say this because he's
Speaker 1: not a client, but I just remember like the first
Speaker 1: phone call we had, he was just going like he
Speaker 1: had a temper problem. He was just kind of like
Speaker 1: it was it was bad, And I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: I can see what I'm going to be dealing with
Speaker 1: for months and no, thank you. It's really cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no one could pay you enough. They're just people. No
Speaker 1: one can pay be enough. Yeah, well I don't have
Speaker 1: a law degree, but you could pay me enough to
Speaker 1: do nothing for you. Mitro, will you wrap me? You're
Speaker 1: so cool? I love it. I love comedians. I have
Speaker 1: a couple of comedian clients and you guys, you guys
Speaker 1: are awesome. Oh my god, Well we could talk offline
Speaker 1: about that, but are you planning crimes? I mean you
Speaker 1: know me? Yeah, Mitra, this has been incredible. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for bringing your expertise, your insight, and your
Speaker 1: humor today to the podcast. We appreciate you so much.
Speaker 1: And is there anything you want the audience to know
Speaker 1: or if you want them to follow you online or
Speaker 1: anything like that? Um My Instagram and Twitter Metra e
Speaker 1: s Q, so if you want to follow me there.
Speaker 1: I also do a lot of analysis on the Johnny
Speaker 1: Depp case like on TV, so I post that stuff. Um,
Speaker 1: if you want to follow that more then yeah? Would
Speaker 1: you rather represent Johnny or Amber? God? I mean, come on,
Speaker 1: no brainer. Johnny Depp who want to be working with
Speaker 1: every single day and like you know, for months and months.
Speaker 1: So yeahing. Well, thank you so much for coming on
Speaker 1: the podcast. You are amazing and we so appreciate your
Speaker 1: insights today than anytime. Guys, be careful what you wish for.
Speaker 1: You know, my favorite part of the Amber heard Johnny
Speaker 1: Depp trial is listening to him how oh like you
Speaker 1: know she threw a bottle at his finger and the
Speaker 1: tip cut off, and then he mixed you with blood
Speaker 1: and pain and then started like drawing on the walls
Speaker 1: penis and then then like I love you. Hey, whatever
Speaker 1: right because it doesn't no, But I'm like this sounds
Speaker 1: like some Billy Bob Thornton, Angelina Jolie bullshit where they're like,
Speaker 1: we're having vials of blood with each other's names on
Speaker 1: them and a piece of rice and the necklace and
Speaker 1: I threw it in the backyard and now it doesn't
Speaker 1: know where it is. And then when you look up
Speaker 1: what happened. Billy Bob Thornton and Amber Heard were shooting
Speaker 1: a movie together, and that is what calls the drama.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, see, I knew it. Billy Bobb is
Speaker 1: somehow Billy Bob is the problem. Why isn't he testifying? Yeah, alright, guys,
Speaker 1: I think let's take a little quick break before we
Speaker 1: bring on our next guests. What do you think? Dmitri agree?
Speaker 1: I love that for us, guys, don't commit any crimes.
Speaker 1: See in a minute. Hey, hello everyone, and welcome back
Speaker 1: to Real Time Crime. I'm your host Lee Lamar, and
Speaker 1: I have with me sometimes Dmitri what's up. Wow. Dmitri
Speaker 1: is thrilled to be here today. I just want to
Speaker 1: get to the next guest. I'm excited. Okay, okay. Our
Speaker 1: next guests are Ben Crompton and Alex where So. So.
Speaker 1: They're both producers on this new incredible show called ABC's
Speaker 1: Who Do You Believe, which comes out May third. That's
Speaker 1: when it airs. Okay, So, Who Do You Believe is
Speaker 1: a new series that features simultaneous storytelling to take viewers
Speaker 1: through compelling true crime cases from dual perspectives, and in
Speaker 1: each episode, the audience steps into the shoes of two
Speaker 1: contrasting narratives to hear the recounts directly from the victims
Speaker 1: and criminals with never before revealed details. Then the viewer
Speaker 1: plays armchair detective to deduce and piece together different versions
Speaker 1: of the truth. This sounds almost like a comedy, but
Speaker 1: it's not. This is real, okay, So, because we all
Speaker 1: know that there are always two sides to every story,
Speaker 1: and there's no telling how far one would go for
Speaker 1: their marriage, child, their way of life. Within this unique
Speaker 1: storytelling format, every episode culminates by revealing key details from
Speaker 1: the adjudicated cases, leaving you to question, who do you
Speaker 1: Believe and it's being produced by Line Pictures and in
Speaker 1: association with Walt Disney and and Ben Crompton is one
Speaker 1: of the executive producers, and Alex Wereso is the showrunner
Speaker 1: and EPs, and we have them both with us here
Speaker 1: today and I'm really excited to chat with them. Hello,
Speaker 1: how are you, Alex? I'm fantastic And I think Ben, Hello, Ben,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, nice to meet you. Very nice to
Speaker 1: meet that accent. Okay, so, gentlemen, we've already introduced you,
Speaker 1: so we're going to go right into it because we're
Speaker 1: so excited to hear more about who do you believe
Speaker 1: and about your careers in general. And for those who
Speaker 1: may not be as familiar with you both, can you
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about how you got excited
Speaker 1: about the true crime genre? M M yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's a good question. I think truth crime is is
Speaker 1: a really exciting space and has been for the last
Speaker 1: decade right on all platforms. And what I think we
Speaker 1: particularly liked it at Lime when we were looking at
Speaker 1: the genres as with the development team, was like, we
Speaker 1: love stories. When we were really trying to put ourselves
Speaker 1: into people's heads, not necessarily in you know, interested in
Speaker 1: the the facts or the intricacies of the evidence, but
Speaker 1: more like how how these people went through their experiences,
Speaker 1: like what was actually going through their head when something
Speaker 1: crazy happens or something bad happens, and you know, how
Speaker 1: did they rationalize what was happening and then also how
Speaker 1: did they experience it versus how the other side experienced it.
Speaker 1: So we love true crying, but I think we felt
Speaker 1: like we really wanted to get inside people's heads more
Speaker 1: than what we're finding on on you know, lots of
Speaker 1: shows that were involved in um so that's what kind
Speaker 1: of led to the development of this show. That's how
Speaker 1: we kind of started the process on it. We wanted
Speaker 1: to actually speak to people on both sides of a
Speaker 1: crime and find out what what their experiences was in full,
Speaker 1: without being influenced by what the verdict was. I think
Speaker 1: that's that's brilliant because um, well, everybody wants to play
Speaker 1: arms to our quarterback, but it's brilliant to to bring
Speaker 1: up both sides. Because we were just talking about the
Speaker 1: Johnny Depp and for heard thing and people said, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, people have many have said, oh, they're both
Speaker 1: at fault, they're both crazy and they're both this, but
Speaker 1: what it's what's interesting is to sit there and look
Speaker 1: at Okay, well, yes they both did this, but did
Speaker 1: this happen first? And then you gotta put yourself in
Speaker 1: their shoes. If this was happening to me, how would
Speaker 1: I react? Would I then do something crazy? Because you're
Speaker 1: just so it's it's interesting to see how things unfold
Speaker 1: and look at it that way. So I think that's
Speaker 1: a great idea, and that's kind of what our show
Speaker 1: is too. But putting those two perspective side by side.
Speaker 1: So when Johnny Depp makes an accusation about what happened
Speaker 1: that one night, we then play Amber heard right up
Speaker 1: against him and she responds exactly, and we do them separately.
Speaker 1: All our interviews are done separately. But I don't know
Speaker 1: if you've had a chance to to look at the show,
Speaker 1: but we had this device where all of our master
Speaker 1: wide shots they kind of make up a half of
Speaker 1: a room, so symmetrically, when you piece them together, looks
Speaker 1: like they're in the same room, which creates this interesting
Speaker 1: effect of having them in the same room but they're not.
Speaker 1: But you get these outsized reactions, you know, as if
Speaker 1: the other person wasn't listening to them, but for the
Speaker 1: audience subconsciously, it kind of puts them together. And I
Speaker 1: like playing with with that device. Um and I think
Speaker 1: that's kind of what's going on in a lot of
Speaker 1: these criminal cases. And you know, who do you actually
Speaker 1: believe is at the root of what you're thinking? But
Speaker 1: we're bringing that in the forefront and kind of simplifying
Speaker 1: the format. Two, it's not you know, detectives with cops
Speaker 1: and this and that. It's two voices primarily for most
Speaker 1: of these episodes, and it's just their opinions, and it's
Speaker 1: bringing their sides of the story to life. Um. And
Speaker 1: we have dual perspective p o vs in recreation that
Speaker 1: we're playing around. Split screen is as well. UM. So
Speaker 1: the split screen thing is is imperative to our show
Speaker 1: and um kind of takes from that those court trial
Speaker 1: things you know. Um yeah, scream scenes very metaverse. But okay,
Speaker 1: So has there been anything that has surprised you about
Speaker 1: the show, anything that you learned you you thought you
Speaker 1: might not, for example, where you actually decided that you
Speaker 1: really were citing with the criminal instead of the victim,
Speaker 1: or are all these cases very um equally matched in
Speaker 1: a sense or does it feel like there are some
Speaker 1: that are very lops We tried to make them all
Speaker 1: equally matched, and that was one of the criteria for
Speaker 1: picking a story. You know, can I actually believe this person?
Speaker 1: If somebody's story was so unbelievable or they didn't believe
Speaker 1: in their own story, they did not make the cut
Speaker 1: for our show. Um, that was very important that you
Speaker 1: actually could go along for that ride. You know, in
Speaker 1: one act you're believing that Charity is correct, and the
Speaker 1: next act you're like, oh, now she's a liar. It's
Speaker 1: definitely Marcus who's telling the truth. And I love going
Speaker 1: back and forth, right what kind of crimes? It properly
Speaker 1: pinballs back and forth, And that's what we willed to
Speaker 1: really play with. And it's also not just who you believe,
Speaker 1: it's also who do you relate to the most? And
Speaker 1: who's who's a response to a certain situation, did you
Speaker 1: did you understand the most? I think viewers go on
Speaker 1: a real journey in there. It's not just their allegiances
Speaker 1: tested as they try to decide who is right and wrong.
Speaker 1: You know that it is their allegiance, you know, tested
Speaker 1: as to who they like the most. At certain scenarios
Speaker 1: and and whose head they can get in the most.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's it's been fascinating. It is a
Speaker 1: proper journey, and it does feel completely different and unexpected
Speaker 1: pre each episode. And what types of primes do you feature?
Speaker 1: Lots of different times. I don't want to tell you
Speaker 1: all of them, but some of them are more domestic disputes.
Speaker 1: I don't want to give away the endings. There are
Speaker 1: a good share of murders, but nothing's too like gruesome.
Speaker 1: A good share of murders, good share of murders. You know,
Speaker 1: we're aiming for like fifty umme party. But it's it's
Speaker 1: ABC prime time, you know, so we don't want to
Speaker 1: get to too gory to you heavy you know. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that murder is not heavy. It's always
Speaker 1: pretty heavy. Um what else can I say? There's a
Speaker 1: conservatorship battle in episode to all of the um Britney
Speaker 1: Spears case. This one is with Michelle Nichols, who was
Speaker 1: the first African American UM actress on Star Trek the
Speaker 1: original series with Robert Chattner, Robert Chatner, Richard what's his name,
Speaker 1: Willie chat Robber or somebody else. Yeah, Um, so there's
Speaker 1: a conservator ship. Um, a couple of murders. I don't
Speaker 1: want to give away the first one, I think, I think,
Speaker 1: I mean what the reason why we don't want to
Speaker 1: give anything away is the kind of whole point of
Speaker 1: this show is we want everything to be reset at
Speaker 1: the top of the episode and you meet two parties,
Speaker 1: and then over the course of that episode, the story
Speaker 1: will unfold and your legences will be tested, and you know,
Speaker 1: we really do want it to feel unexpected. And you know,
Speaker 1: is that it's saying we do explore murder from two sides.
Speaker 1: We explore conservative ship, we have some theft in there,
Speaker 1: we have some interesting black moil for us. It's a
Speaker 1: really interesting way to kind of fit different crime and
Speaker 1: crime adjacent stories into this format framework and see how
Speaker 1: it pays out. Do you struggle at all putting that together? So,
Speaker 1: for instance, like a lawyer would say, I'm a public
Speaker 1: defending I'm defending this person, but in their head they
Speaker 1: know they're guilty. Do you have trouble putting these together
Speaker 1: and maybe thinking I'm gonna make this person look too
Speaker 1: good or I don't want them to look as good
Speaker 1: because they're clearly the ones obviously you're trying to go
Speaker 1: down the middle because you want people to to kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, like you said, play armature quarterback and make
Speaker 1: their own decisions. But do you struggle with that and
Speaker 1: putting it together? A do, And it's something we get
Speaker 1: a lot of development on before we got to the
Speaker 1: stage of pitching it actually, because you know, there are
Speaker 1: many shades are right or wrong. Clearly some people are
Speaker 1: right and some people are wrong, but we're not we're
Speaker 1: not cast as versions on that. When we're not as
Speaker 1: producers pointing out what is right right and what is wrong,
Speaker 1: we are allowing them to air their truth, the truth
Speaker 1: that they experienced it, how they experienced it, and eventually
Speaker 1: the truth, the truth will catch up with them. And
Speaker 1: you know, in the later part of the episodes, we
Speaker 1: have the verdict and we have the you know, the
Speaker 1: results of the adjudication. So you know, we're not really
Speaker 1: were What we really want to explore is that people's
Speaker 1: own perspectives and logical experiences, they skew their own version
Speaker 1: of the truth, but that's their version of the truth.
Speaker 1: You know, they fully believe that, and then it's down
Speaker 1: to the viewers to deduce whether they believe any part
Speaker 1: of that. Really, it's down to them. I have a
Speaker 1: million more questions, right, but I mean I want to
Speaker 1: ask you more about true crime, obviously, but I just
Speaker 1: want to quickly pivot and ask a very selfish question. Um, Alex,
Speaker 1: I know that you were an EP and showrunner on
Speaker 1: Lea Remini Scientology in the Aftermath Soil series. I'm wondering
Speaker 1: where did you guys receive any threats from Scientology? Um?
Speaker 1: A lot of letters, Um, a lot of letters telling
Speaker 1: us not to But did I I never myself felt
Speaker 1: physically threatened. Um. There was a couple occasions where there
Speaker 1: may have been somebody outside of my house and going
Speaker 1: through my trash and things like that, but UM, you know, nothing,
Speaker 1: nothing too intense of what some of those people on
Speaker 1: that show have experienced. The amount of fair game that
Speaker 1: Scientology has opposed on these people is brutal when ripped
Speaker 1: those families apart. So I'm very grateful that none of
Speaker 1: that has happened to me and they haven't come after
Speaker 1: me full force. But it was the original showrunner on
Speaker 1: that show, and yeah, it was a it was a
Speaker 1: tough decision. One season was was enough for me. Um.
Speaker 1: They didn't, you know, make an attack page attacking me?
Speaker 1: Thankfully knock on wood, there's still time. Um. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was kind of putty. Would you be hesitant there? I
Speaker 1: was in a bunch of that that first season, and
Speaker 1: they were kind of following us around and they would
Speaker 1: show up at airports when we were there and they'd
Speaker 1: have the p I s waiting for us, and you know,
Speaker 1: they would a lot of It's just intimidation, but not
Speaker 1: a lot of bite behind the park. Would you be
Speaker 1: hesitant to do something like that again? Yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like I've already done that. I have a family now,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I escaped unscathed, and I think
Speaker 1: that's a good thing. Um, I've done that. I've told
Speaker 1: those stories to tell other stories, but my heart is
Speaker 1: still with those those victims. Wow. Okay, well we won't
Speaker 1: press too much on that and we'll just pivot real fast,
Speaker 1: Ben Alex, do you guys have a favorite true crime story?
Speaker 1: And I put favorite in air quotes because it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, how can you have a favorite story about murder?
Speaker 1: But do you have a case that you are super
Speaker 1: passionate about or something that really threw you into true
Speaker 1: crime in the first place. Mmm, I notice. I mean
Speaker 1: the lead remedy thing is what kind of got me
Speaker 1: in that space, and it's kind of true crime adjacent.
Speaker 1: I had never done true crime before. I did more
Speaker 1: kind of British experimental social experiment shows like Undercover Boss
Speaker 1: and Wife Swap, more more formatted kind of stuff. Um,
Speaker 1: but I always wanted to do more serious stuff. I mean,
Speaker 1: I saw that Alex give Me Going Clear thing and
Speaker 1: it seemed like a incredible new world to discover. And
Speaker 1: that's that's one of my favorite parts about producing, is
Speaker 1: just learning about new world and immersing yourself in that.
Speaker 1: And true crime offers a lot of that. You know, um,
Speaker 1: people from all different kinds of socio economic backgrounds, and
Speaker 1: to get to know those people in their circumstances and
Speaker 1: tell their stories is an interesting part for me. But
Speaker 1: now there's no one that really sticks out. I guess
Speaker 1: the Natalie Holloway case. I did a series on Natalie
Speaker 1: Holloway when Oxygen first launched into true crime, and I
Speaker 1: got to know they've all the way pretty well, spent
Speaker 1: a year with him as he searched for his daughter,
Speaker 1: so that one kind of emotionally unattached to Ben. Do
Speaker 1: you know what I'm I'm less of a true crime
Speaker 1: fanatic in the sense that I you know, I don't
Speaker 1: track stories. I watch good great docks. You know, I
Speaker 1: love the stuff that raw do. I love in The Swindler.
Speaker 1: You know, I love going back to the Impostor, which
Speaker 1: is like a decade ago. You know, I love a
Speaker 1: great version of storytelling. Um, you know, true crime story.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm raptured by all of the stories
Speaker 1: that everyone else are talking about. I've been watching a
Speaker 1: hell of a lot of Johnny Depp and versus Amber Heard.
Speaker 1: I find it just fascinating and kind of you know,
Speaker 1: um interesting, how he is enacting himself and court and
Speaker 1: how that process is all working out. But you know,
Speaker 1: I'm really drawn. I what I really like is that
Speaker 1: the way that the production community are telling true crime
Speaker 1: stories and the way that they're telling them. So I'm
Speaker 1: a big fan more of the format behind a lot
Speaker 1: of that. You know. What I find is maddening is
Speaker 1: um which is nice that you guys are doing this
Speaker 1: with your show and showing different things, but stuff like
Speaker 1: the the just laying Maxwell because Ley Maxwell and stuff. No,
Speaker 1: there's no cameras, isn't We're just left out here to
Speaker 1: speculate what's happening, right, Johnny Depp and never heard we're
Speaker 1: getting full on, like all this stuff. It's maddening that
Speaker 1: there's stuff that's not not to put one crime over another,
Speaker 1: but one of them, in my opinion, is more serious
Speaker 1: because it affects a lot of people, that affects children
Speaker 1: as underage, and yet we we can't know and I
Speaker 1: understand that that's part of that, but we don't know
Speaker 1: enough about what's going on, and it just kind of
Speaker 1: fades away. But this Johnny Depp, we're getting six weeks
Speaker 1: straight up of a bad marriage. Yeah. I'm starting to
Speaker 1: think there's a merged store outside the courtroom. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: also think, you know, so much of it is about
Speaker 1: the process of court. So much of it is just
Speaker 1: an answer to, uh, you know, a defense question. It
Speaker 1: doesn't I'm not really I'm getting snippets of responsive. I'm
Speaker 1: not really able to build a full picture. And you know,
Speaker 1: it kind of goes back to what I like about
Speaker 1: some great crime docs and what we're trying to do
Speaker 1: with our show as well. There's like I want to
Speaker 1: hear the full story. I don't want to keep being
Speaker 1: interrupted by a lawyer saying, let's hearsay, you know, just
Speaker 1: let me just hear it, let me understand it and
Speaker 1: get inside their head and what they experienced. Um. And
Speaker 1: I also think it's it's more accessible to the Johnny
Speaker 1: Depp amber heard stuff even have you know, domestic violence
Speaker 1: is and a like subject, But compared to the um
Speaker 1: Giselle Maxwell stuff, that stuff gets really dark and really
Speaker 1: heavy and that stuff. You know, I don't know how
Speaker 1: much time you can emotionally invest in that kind of
Speaker 1: stuff day after day, you know. In being producing a
Speaker 1: lot of true crime stuff, it wears on you. I
Speaker 1: don't know if anybody talks about that, but it's it's
Speaker 1: hard to to shake some of these stories when you
Speaker 1: come home and you want something a little bit lighter.
Speaker 1: So I think most people that I know who actually
Speaker 1: make true crime don't like to watch it when they
Speaker 1: go home. Um, it's it's it's a lot so that stuff,
Speaker 1: like what you too, It's just it's more entertainment, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think our show kind of falls in that
Speaker 1: line to where, yeah, it's it's still murder and stuff,
Speaker 1: but it's not as intense, all encompassing. I can't go
Speaker 1: to sleep that night, you know, Yeah, what do you
Speaker 1: do when you go home? Like, if you've had a
Speaker 1: long day of producing something that's super heavy and and
Speaker 1: you feel so you said you'd like to kind of
Speaker 1: move away from it. What do you do when you
Speaker 1: go home? Do you watch a certain show? Do you
Speaker 1: what do you do to kind of get that feel
Speaker 1: kiss off of you to spend some of your kiss
Speaker 1: my little baby girl. And that's what I do. I
Speaker 1: spend time with my family and try not to think
Speaker 1: or discuss work and stuff. My wife also works in
Speaker 1: the business, because she's always interested about what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: But the last thing I want to do sometimes is
Speaker 1: is talking about murder again when I've been talking about
Speaker 1: it all day long. Um, so funny, I'm the opposite.
Speaker 1: But I also don't have a family or anyone who
Speaker 1: loves me here, so it doesn't really matter. It's just
Speaker 1: me talking to me, So she's just talking about murder,
Speaker 1: whether someone's in the room or not. It's basically where
Speaker 1: that comes down to. Yeah, and Ben, do you have
Speaker 1: a routine for watching selling Sunset? I do have a
Speaker 1: lovely family, and I kissed them on the foreheads as well,
Speaker 1: and then I watched Selling sunset for maybe an hour.
Speaker 1: And that's my that's my general's fisher. We we produce
Speaker 1: a lot of reality as well a lot of entertainment format.
Speaker 1: So luckily I'm not one buried in the true crime world. Um,
Speaker 1: and so I have other events, which is great, and
Speaker 1: a family. Yeah, so if you guys could bring up
Speaker 1: your families one more time. Yeah, hey you guys, I'm married,
Speaker 1: I have four kids, so yeah, alright, alright, guys, I
Speaker 1: got it. Okay, But as soon as we're done here,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go kiss my kids and you know, tell
Speaker 1: him I love you. So but Leah's going to a visa,
Speaker 1: so don't don't make it seem like she doesn't have
Speaker 1: anything going on. She's going to Europe for like a month.
Speaker 1: Oh I know. Well because they don't have a family,
Speaker 1: so yeah, um, you know the trade offs. But okay,
Speaker 1: So your show airs on May third on ABC. It's
Speaker 1: called Who Do You Believe? And do either of you
Speaker 1: have anything you want to share about the show that
Speaker 1: we may not have covered, or anything that might surprise
Speaker 1: viewers or excite them that we didn't get to talk
Speaker 1: about today, or anything anything any final notes about the show.
Speaker 1: I think every every episode is different. You know, every
Speaker 1: episode there's one special two part of but every every
Speaker 1: episode is its own true crime story or dispute um.
Speaker 1: You know, it is told from the two central perspectives involved,
Speaker 1: and it's fascinating and we can't wait to hear what
Speaker 1: people think about it. You know what. I like the
Speaker 1: idea that debates will continue after they have watched the episode.
Speaker 1: You know, people will still have questions after they've seen
Speaker 1: the verdict and after they've heard both sides um. The
Speaker 1: other thing I will say is that it's incredibly brave
Speaker 1: for both sides to, you know, appear on something like this.
Speaker 1: We found from responses from the been involved that it's
Speaker 1: also a really cathartic experience for them. Is they're able
Speaker 1: to fully air their perspective and get a right to
Speaker 1: apply to some of those opposing, contrasting perspectives that they
Speaker 1: didn't get a chance to do before. So I think
Speaker 1: I'll be interested to hear what they think. That's one
Speaker 1: of the most challenging parts of actually getting people to
Speaker 1: participate in the show. We're up front that the other
Speaker 1: side is going to have their equal airing, and oftentimes
Speaker 1: this is their mortal enemy in life and knowing that
Speaker 1: they're going to have the rights to reply scares a
Speaker 1: lot of people away and they don't want the other
Speaker 1: side to have their opinion aired. So that's been a
Speaker 1: challenge with the people, to de Ben's point who have
Speaker 1: agreed to do it, have been been brave and I
Speaker 1: feel like we're we're giving them each a fair shakes
Speaker 1: as much as we can. Yeah, I can see that,
Speaker 1: and I can see that. Do you have problems with
Speaker 1: lawyers wanting stuff out? No? No, yeah, um, but so
Speaker 1: but you what you're saying about in the courtroom, you
Speaker 1: were saying that, you know, you're always being interrupted and
Speaker 1: there is here say that. But that's they've got to
Speaker 1: feel good about that, because that's gotta be frustrating for
Speaker 1: them as well when they understand, oh I didn't say correctly,
Speaker 1: oh this person so they can just sit down and
Speaker 1: tell their side of the story. So I can see
Speaker 1: how there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind
Speaker 1: the scenes to corroborate, you know, the things that they're saying,
Speaker 1: and in legal documents and in other ways. Um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: there are certainly as any true crunch, there's lots of
Speaker 1: legal landlines to navigate through. Yeah, but you're right though,
Speaker 1: it's that and it's not just went that what went
Speaker 1: down in court, it's also you know, how the case
Speaker 1: was reported, and you know what their family or their
Speaker 1: community that the kind of the nuggets of the case
Speaker 1: that they've held onto that they want to finally have
Speaker 1: a chance to kind of rebuff or they want to
Speaker 1: have a chance to respond to something that's kind of
Speaker 1: been a shadow over them for a long time. So
Speaker 1: it is it isn't you know, fascinating to see how
Speaker 1: their story has evolved and how good they feel after
Speaker 1: they've been able to fully air in. Can I just
Speaker 1: say Legal land Mines is the best name for show
Speaker 1: for lawyers who've had difficult cases, Alex, I mean, I'd
Speaker 1: love to come on as a creative story producer. Just
Speaker 1: let me know I'm available for hire, And I will say, also, Ben,
Speaker 1: you know, I noticed that you were one of the
Speaker 1: EPs on Ease Dating No Filter. If you haven't noticed,
Speaker 1: I don't have a family, I'm very lonely and I
Speaker 1: have no filter. So if there's a season to just
Speaker 1: let me know. We cast like it was really fun,
Speaker 1: you know, having a comedic commentary on top of dates
Speaker 1: dates always funny, you know. So yeah, it's a very
Speaker 1: different show to this, but they're funny when you're married
Speaker 1: and have a family. That's all I'll say. Dating is
Speaker 1: no longer fun. I'm not having fun. No one's having fun.
Speaker 1: Are you think? I love how I've convinced three men
Speaker 1: that I'm not? Okay? All right, Um, gentlemen, this has
Speaker 1: been such an honor, unemploy sure having you here today.
Speaker 1: I guess I just want to give you both the
Speaker 1: floor for any final thoughts that you may have or
Speaker 1: anything you want to share with the audience or where
Speaker 1: we can find you on the internet. Yeah, Internet that
Speaker 1: We want as many true crime fans to watch it
Speaker 1: as possible. ABC have been just wonderful partners of this,
Speaker 1: you know, really are benchmark raising and you know exciting
Speaker 1: home for True Crime on on Hulu as well. So um, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're excited to see how it how it pans out
Speaker 1: and let us know what you're thinking. Thank you, thank
Speaker 1: you for the time. I appreciate it, Thank you. I'm
Speaker 1: so excited to watch the show. This is a really
Speaker 1: novel idea and both of you have worked on such
Speaker 1: a wide gamut of genres and all the shows you
Speaker 1: worked on have been super successful, so I don't doubt
Speaker 1: that this will be just another hit for both of you.
Speaker 1: Very excited to watch it. So that's May third on ABC.
Speaker 1: Who do you Believe? And you know we're gonna be
Speaker 1: talking about it, so make sure you watch it. Yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 1: We look forward to that. Yeah, thanks guys, having thank you,
Speaker 1: And then there were two there. It is. That's the
Speaker 1: tough thing about guests is when they leave, then there's
Speaker 1: that that's silence in the house. Yeah. See when guests
Speaker 1: usually leave my house, I'm like, thank god, now I
Speaker 1: can fart. You're not doing that now though, right M.
Speaker 1: I like those guys. I loved every guest we had today.
Speaker 1: Every guest we had today was x Yeah. I felt
Speaker 1: bad when um when Ben said that he had a family,
Speaker 1: because I know it's a little twinkle in your eye.
Speaker 1: When he first came on, You're like, oh, I'd like
Speaker 1: to welcome your accent and your handsome face. Hello. Yes,
Speaker 1: Alex is here too, Hello, Ben, tell me about yourself.
Speaker 1: I don't know what made you think that I would
Speaker 1: like to go adithan Acentum. That was Australian by the way. Okay,
Speaker 1: you guys please DM me at Leo lamar l e
Speaker 1: A H l A m A r R. You already
Speaker 1: know this. Let me know if you think Amber Heard
Speaker 1: will win the trial or Johnny Depp. Also, we're going
Speaker 1: to post a clip, so just post on the clip,
Speaker 1: post on the reel. I want to know who you
Speaker 1: think is going to win this trial. And as always,
Speaker 1: call in live baby, leave us a voice smail if
Speaker 1: you've got a hot tip for us, or if there's
Speaker 1: a case you think that we should be looking into,
Speaker 1: or a bit of information that we didn't know, let
Speaker 1: us know. It is an open forum calling it eight
Speaker 1: that's eight six six twenty one crimes. Normally there's someone
Speaker 1: eight six six two two seven four six three. Al Right,
Speaker 1: social sleuths, I love you very much. I'll see you
Speaker 1: from across the world next week, and stay safe, don't
Speaker 1: commit any crimes as usual. Love you very much. Bye bye.
Speaker 1: It's real time gra real time gro I mean, is
Speaker 1: it actually real time crime when I'm solving anything or
Speaker 1: is that just the thing we say, it's a thing
Speaker 1: we say, got it? Okay, see you next week for
Speaker 1: more real time crime only on I Heart Radio.