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Speaker 1: Crime. Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Real

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Speaker 1: Time Crime. I'm your host Lee Lamar and I have

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Speaker 1: with me actually back our friends sometimes oftentimes Dmitri and

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Speaker 1: now I deserve this sometimes because I was not here

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Speaker 1: last time. So it's true you've been demoted back to sometimes. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that sticks. I think that that nickname resonates

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Speaker 1: with everyone anyway, so I would agree with that and

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Speaker 1: my little social slukes. Today, we've got a crazy episode

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Speaker 1: in the store for you. We've got a lot of guests, Like, uh,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of guests today, so we're not gonna

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Speaker 1: do hot topics. We're just gonna talk about a lot

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Speaker 1: of big cases. Dmitri, how do you feel about this?

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Speaker 1: Not that you have a say yeah, no, can I answer? Now?

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Speaker 1: That's cool with you? Um, I like it because listen,

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Speaker 1: everybody wants to talk crime, right, That's why they're is this.

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Speaker 1: That's why there's a podcast, and that's why there's you know,

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Speaker 1: so many shows and stuff age. Everyone wants to talk

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Speaker 1: about it. Get some other people in here, let's get

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Speaker 1: some some different views and stuff like that and find

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Speaker 1: out what's really going on. That's how you solve cases.

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Speaker 1: So just so everyone knows we're going to be deep

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Speaker 1: diving into the amber heard Johnny Depp case. Again. We

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Speaker 1: are all captivated by this case. And if you're not,

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Speaker 1: I mean, no offense, but you don't really understand good entertainment. Um,

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna be talking with one of the biggest

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Speaker 1: entertainment lawyers in Hollywood who's going to tell us what

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Speaker 1: she thinks is going to happen at the end of

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Speaker 1: this case. We'll pick her brain about it a little

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Speaker 1: bit as well, and then we're going to get into

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Speaker 1: talking with two of the producers of ABC's Who Do

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Speaker 1: You Believe, which is a new true crime show. And

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Speaker 1: you guys, this is gonna be a great episode. I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited. Also, just let everyone know I'm going to

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Speaker 1: a visa literally right after this. I've never been to Europe.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how that's possible. Really, yeah, I know. See,

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Speaker 1: even Demitria surprised. What you look like. Your your world

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Speaker 1: traveler like you you've you know, so I just assumed

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Speaker 1: that you had been everywhere. Thank you. I'm actually been

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Speaker 1: living in a bubble pretty much my whole life, and

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Speaker 1: I've decided that i need to see the world. So

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Speaker 1: every episode. I'll be in a different place for the

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Speaker 1: next almost month. Hey, so, if you happen to be

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Speaker 1: a fan of the podcast and you live in Dubai,

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Speaker 1: I'll be there at the very end of my trip

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Speaker 1: doing a comedy festival. So if you want to come

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Speaker 1: meet up in person, let me know. And guys, let's

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Speaker 1: waste no more time. We got to talk about our

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Speaker 1: first guest, who is absolutely stunning and intelligent and successful

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Speaker 1: and I'm so excited she's on the podcast today. She's

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Speaker 1: a Beverly Hills based entertainment attorney. Her name is Mitra

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Speaker 1: are In. She's represented every type of player in Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: from actors, every type of player, including my ex Okay,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's like you knew it was coming, all right.

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Speaker 1: From actors, musicians, producers, movie studios, book publishers. Her longtime

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Speaker 1: clients have included Justin Baldoni, Oh I love him, NFL

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Speaker 1: player Ryan Claudy, the world famous Magic Castle. She just

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Speaker 1: reps the Magic Castle casually. That's pretty wild. She's done

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Speaker 1: deals for Larry King, Bill Maher Rain Wilson, Penn Badgeley,

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Speaker 1: Ja Shetty. Not only does she have firsthand knowledge on

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Speaker 1: a wide range of issues including intellectual property, copyright infringement, incorporation,

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Speaker 1: show business contracts, and sexual harassment plates. But she has

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Speaker 1: been closely following amber Heard's defamation trial. Why do I

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Speaker 1: say defamation every time? I'm not sure, I think because

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Speaker 1: after that one story, I'm you're afraid that you're gonna

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Speaker 1: say defecation. So I think you just kind of tweak

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Speaker 1: it defamation. It's it's the defamation defication trial. Sadly, it

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Speaker 1: is the deafamation death vaication trap. We should make a musical.

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Speaker 1: We should make a musical. Um, Okay, so you guys,

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Speaker 1: basically moral of the story is she's going to come on,

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Speaker 1: Mitra is incredible. She's gonna share some insight on the

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Speaker 1: Johnny Depp amber Heard story, and maybe we can slowly

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Speaker 1: or very quickly ask her about Mike Tyson and asap Rocky.

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Speaker 1: Let's see. All right, please, welcome to the show, Mitra.

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Speaker 1: How's it going. Hello, Oh my gosh, it's nice to

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Speaker 1: meet you. To me, just so you know, I've already

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Speaker 1: introduced you. I can just just imagine feeling very loved

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Speaker 1: with a very big, flattering introduction. We're so exciting, said,

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Speaker 1: but okay, you know, yeah, only only the best things,

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Speaker 1: only your biggest credits, all of it. They were Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I'm still learning how to read. And it was a lot,

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Speaker 1: so thank you. Um, you know, it was just like intelligent, successful,

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Speaker 1: gorgeous killing It worked with all the stars, but then

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Speaker 1: named them all, you know. And then there was a

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Speaker 1: gas when we got to the Magic Castle. There was

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Speaker 1: a bit of gasp from both of us. We gasped.

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Speaker 1: I was like, the whole Magic Castle is your client. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's wild. For people who don't live in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles, you don't know how legendary the Magic Castle is,

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Speaker 1: and that's a you problem. But but it is a

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Speaker 1: destination where it's worth coming to l A just to

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Speaker 1: go to the Magic Castle. I actually know it sounds crazy.

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Speaker 1: Hate magic. I have magic phobia. Well I know, except

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Speaker 1: for when I go to the Magic Castle because I

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Speaker 1: get so nervous that they're not going to finish their

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Speaker 1: trick and it just performers anxiety. It's performers anxiety. And

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Speaker 1: so every time I even went on a date with

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Speaker 1: this guy once and he hired a magician. Is a

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Speaker 1: long story, but I was like this, I mean, you're

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Speaker 1: not gonna get a second date. Yeah, surprisingly we're not

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Speaker 1: married anyway, Enough about me, Mitra, let's just jump right in.

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Speaker 1: Weird you're here? Sorry, go ahead? Do you feel good

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Speaker 1: about that one? To me? Do you know what? It

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Speaker 1: came to me? And I was just like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: that's gotta be seen? Sorry, go ahead? Oh boy, Okay,

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Speaker 1: he really would have had to pull a rabbit out

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Speaker 1: of a hat to get a second date. Okay, we're

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Speaker 1: moving on anyway. All right, Okay, I'm gonna go back

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Speaker 1: in the waiting room and come back. Guys are done

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Speaker 1: with whatever this is. Okay, I'm like interview, so sorry,

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Speaker 1: come on one this morning. Um, Metra, can you tell

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Speaker 1: us what is the latest with the Johnny Depp and

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Speaker 1: Amber Heard trial. First of all, this has been the

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Speaker 1: most amazing case to cover. Um, it's like so many

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Speaker 1: emotions happening. It's sad. Um, it's hard to see, you know,

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Speaker 1: a celebrity you know and love kind of airing it

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Speaker 1: all out like that. Um. There are times when he's

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Speaker 1: charming and funny and you know, and it's really kind

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Speaker 1: of hard to imagine that in order to get justice

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Speaker 1: a celebrity has to go through all of this and really,

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Speaker 1: Era all his dirty laundry. So as far as the updates. Um.

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Speaker 1: But so we started with the plaintiff's case, which is

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Speaker 1: Johnny Depp sued Amber heard right, and then of course

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Speaker 1: she countersued for the same thing for defamation for what

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Speaker 1: he alleged in his lawsuit, basically that she was a liar. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so he sues her for defamation. And defamation we

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Speaker 1: all know is like something that somebody says about you

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Speaker 1: that's negative, or somebody puts something in print that's negative. Um.

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Speaker 1: But for a celebrity, they have to also go beyond

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Speaker 1: that and show that they did it with malice so

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Speaker 1: maliciously meaning knowing it was, knowing it was false, or

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Speaker 1: not caring if those false. Um. So Johnny's lawyers kind

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Speaker 1: of started by, you know what I like to call

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Speaker 1: the character development phase of a trial, which is very

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Speaker 1: much like a movie. You're kind of introducing Johnny Depp

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Speaker 1: as the character. Um, you know, his childhood. It started

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Speaker 1: with testimony of his sister talking about when he was

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Speaker 1: a kid and was abused and also describing kind of

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Speaker 1: the learned adaptive behaviors that he picked up as a kid,

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Speaker 1: which is getting you know, kind of escaping from the

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Speaker 1: abuse or staying out of the line of fire, so

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Speaker 1: to speak. Um, and then sort of went through the

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Speaker 1: dynamic of their relationship with Amber being the aggressor and

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Speaker 1: the one that's constantly sort of poking at him, and

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Speaker 1: you know, even played some recordings of her admitting to

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Speaker 1: having hit him. I hit you, I hate you, sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff like that, and um. And then after that,

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Speaker 1: you know, they get to cross exam and him on

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Speaker 1: the other side, and that's when sort of the ugly

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Speaker 1: stuff comes out. So can I ask you a quick question?

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Speaker 1: So it's funny because we think that we know somebody,

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Speaker 1: especially when they're an active you think you know. So

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Speaker 1: the character set up is always quite fascinating because you

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Speaker 1: learned so much more about someone that you kind of

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Speaker 1: even though we know we know don't know them, we

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Speaker 1: think we do. Um, how do you think his team

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Speaker 1: did with his character set up? I think they did

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Speaker 1: a great job. They made him look really vulnerable. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: celebrities are really larger than life, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: and it's and like you said, it's really hard to

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Speaker 1: distinguish what we know about them as characters and what

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Speaker 1: we also project on celebrities as you know, this is

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Speaker 1: who we think they are, who we want them to be.

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Speaker 1: So they presented him as this, you know, this guy

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Speaker 1: who has had addiction problems but also created empathy around

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Speaker 1: that with his you know, sort of his abuse and

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Speaker 1: all of that, um and his struggles to get sober.

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Speaker 1: And so I think they did a really really good

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Speaker 1: job of humanizing him, and that's key when you're in

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Speaker 1: any lawsuit. Yeah. So, I mean I have a million questions,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I see him as Captain Jack Sparrow

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Speaker 1: on the stand. You know, he's so charming and he's

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Speaker 1: without even trying to hilarious. You know, his use of

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Speaker 1: language is so unique, and the fact that he even

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Speaker 1: when he's insulting someone, he's like, refers to her as

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Speaker 1: a slippery whore. It's like, what, you know, do you

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Speaker 1: think that these elements of charm will and his you know,

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Speaker 1: humor so to speak. You know, when he's correcting, um,

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Speaker 1: correcting them when they're asking, oh is that right, and

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Speaker 1: he's like, no, it's not best of luck, it's best

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Speaker 1: if luck. Yeah, he's good, but I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's a good actor. But I honestly, I'm like, wow,

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Speaker 1: this feels like they are shooting a movie that we're

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Speaker 1: all watching in real time, like we're all on the

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Speaker 1: Truman Show. But do you think that that sort of

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Speaker 1: element of charm and humor will help him in the

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Speaker 1: trial or do you think that ultimately people will see

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Speaker 1: through it or they won't be able to identify that

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Speaker 1: as as something that would help him in the trial. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good question. So you got to think like

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Speaker 1: a jury, right, so you are going to be here

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Speaker 1: for six weeks not able to look at anything because

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a high profile case, so you're not

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Speaker 1: allowed to really look at anything outside of what's going

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Speaker 1: on in that courtroom. Some of it's really boring. Some

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Speaker 1: of it drags out. I mean some of the questions

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Speaker 1: that lawyers have to ask are really foundational or you

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Speaker 1: know kind of no one cares in a sense, but

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Speaker 1: they have to kind of lay things out legally. So

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Speaker 1: it's you know, hours and hours a day. So if

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Speaker 1: I were on a jury, I'd be like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: thank god somebody made me laugh or thank god I

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Speaker 1: saw like some emotion or some personality or something, because

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Speaker 1: you kind of need those moments, you know, of like

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Speaker 1: comic relief or entertainment. Um, so I can't imagine that

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Speaker 1: would that would hurt him. You know what's interesting too,

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Speaker 1: is that when stuff like Lea pointed out like like oh,

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Speaker 1: he's like, no, it's not of it's if like when

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Speaker 1: correcting those things, if I'm on a jury, if I'm

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Speaker 1: just thinking from a differ, from a different perspective, he's

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Speaker 1: correcting it to make sure that they get the smallest awards, right.

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Speaker 1: So in my mind, I'm like, oh, this guy's this

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Speaker 1: guy's a stickler for details. He's telling the truth. He's

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Speaker 1: making sure that everything's right. So subliminally, subconsciously, as it

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Speaker 1: goes on, I'm thinking, oh, he's telling me the truth

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Speaker 1: because he's corrected the Yeah, he's he's come off as

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Speaker 1: really credible, as authentic. Um as you know you believe him.

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Speaker 1: Um he was. I mean they really leaned into the

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Speaker 1: drug abuse and the alcoholism his lawyers did before the

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Speaker 1: defense even had a chance to bring it up, basically

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Speaker 1: getting rid of that surprise factor or that sting that

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Speaker 1: you know they're going to come in and say, well,

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Speaker 1: he was an addict, and you know, ad ex abuse

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Speaker 1: people and they block out, they don't know what they

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Speaker 1: do and all of that, but they leaned into that,

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Speaker 1: which made him super vulnerable and really credible, and I

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Speaker 1: think that that was that, I mean, obviously very deliberate,

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Speaker 1: but like you said, you know, he also senses when

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Speaker 1: they're trying to catch him in something he said before

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Speaker 1: and kind of twist and minipulate his words, so instead

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Speaker 1: of giving them the yes or no that they want,

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Speaker 1: he sort of is like clarifying, which is really smart. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so sorry, I just wanted to piggyback on something that

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Speaker 1: you brought up before, which was that if you're on

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Speaker 1: the jury, you're not allowed to be watching clips of

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Speaker 1: the trial online, you know, or check them out. It's

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Speaker 1: almost like you're in a quarantine again. Yep. But I

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Speaker 1: remember reading just maybe last week that one of Johnny's witnesses,

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Speaker 1: Georgina Dooders, was dismissed from the trial because she watched

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Speaker 1: clips of the trial online allegedly and because Amber Heard's

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Speaker 1: friend was watching in the courtroom. Man now she's Eve

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Speaker 1: Barlow has now since been banned from the courtroom because

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Speaker 1: of this um and also apparently her dramatic nature and

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Speaker 1: tweeting and texting from the front row of the courtroom,

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Speaker 1: which is something that usually people who are just friends

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Speaker 1: of someone on trial don't really have the privilege of

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Speaker 1: doing right. Um, but do you think that you know

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Speaker 1: this will hurt his case? Do you think that? Um?

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Speaker 1: I mean I read that it seemed like it was

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Speaker 1: going to be a blow to the case. But do

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Speaker 1: you think that he'll have enough to go off of

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Speaker 1: to win. Well, we don't know what her testimony was

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Speaker 1: going to be, and usually the testimony is like a

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Speaker 1: big piece of the puzzle, right the way they're going

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Speaker 1: to tell the story. Um, it didn't hurt them that

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Speaker 1: she did that, because you know, the judge even said

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Speaker 1: it was kind of obvious that they didn't know. She said,

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Speaker 1: I believe you guys that you didn't know that this happened. Um,

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Speaker 1: So that was okay, didn't kind of get you know,

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Speaker 1: they didn't get out of the good racist of the judge.

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Speaker 1: But in terms of storytelling, they're going to have to

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Speaker 1: find a way to kind of connect the dots without her. Okay. Also,

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Speaker 1: there is a rumor that Amber's lawyer quit. Is that true?

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Speaker 1: I didn't hear that. Okay, I don't think so, because

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Speaker 1: he's still the main there's two main lawyers. Um, and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna love it when I hit one of them.

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Speaker 1: His name's Rotten Born. Um, and everyone like you can't

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Speaker 1: when you're commenting on this and you just can't not

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Speaker 1: can't make fun of that. But those are the things

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Speaker 1: that you change. Yeah, does that not get change? Yeah? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean so yeah, that's you know, he's in a

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Speaker 1: very public case and people cannot help but bring that up.

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Speaker 1: But um, but those two are definitely there. They have

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Speaker 1: obviously a team of lawyers, so there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: people that are also there that might be, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: involved kind of behind the scenes. Um, but as far

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Speaker 1: as I can tell, everyone's still there. Okay. So also,

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Speaker 1: just on the note of them continually bringing up him

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Speaker 1: being quote unquote a monster when he's drawn or on drugs,

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Speaker 1: and that he's an addict and that you know, Elton

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Speaker 1: John tried to help him get sober and he gets

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Speaker 1: aggressive when he's drunk and all these different things. I

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Speaker 1: thought that it was interesting that they were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: when you do drugs or when you get drunk with

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Speaker 1: Marilyn Manson. It's like he gets drunk with everyone, not

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Speaker 1: just Marilyn Manson. So I'm wondering do you think that

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Speaker 1: they keep trying to align him with Maryland so that

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Speaker 1: people's perception of him is that he is painted in

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Speaker 1: a more negative light. Because okay, one, because he was

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Speaker 1: I think he was convicted of abuse or play guilty too,

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Speaker 1: amusing a woman too, and just he's I mean, everyone

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Speaker 1: knows he's like weird, right, no matter, just yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I will say I was at Marilyn Manson's birthday party

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Speaker 1: five years ago, six five, and Giant Up was there,

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Speaker 1: Courtney Love was there, and everyone was quote unquote having

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Speaker 1: a good time. So um, but I would say probably

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Speaker 1: one of the more magical musical performances I've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: Not that I'm sure that must have been because you

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Speaker 1: don't drink, right, so that must have been quite an

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Speaker 1: event for you to be there with all those heavy

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Speaker 1: party ers just watching. Well, I mean, this is like

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Speaker 1: the story of my life. Okay. So so okay, Mitra,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have photo and video evidence of him

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Speaker 1: having bruises on his face, of her having bruises on

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Speaker 1: her on her face, um, of him saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: she like burst open the bathroom door and bashed his head,

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Speaker 1: and you know they have a very violent relationship and

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Speaker 1: it's super intense and filled with drama. I mean, at

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Speaker 1: this point, I don't know if I feel like I

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Speaker 1: really can tell who's in the right or the wrong,

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Speaker 1: because there's a part of me that's like, deep down,

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Speaker 1: if I look into my self, do I think that

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Speaker 1: Johnny Depp is just very charismatic and I love him

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Speaker 1: and so I just believe him more. Um, But then again,

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Speaker 1: I you know, Amber Heard did ship the bed and

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Speaker 1: leave it there, so you know, a lot of questions,

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Speaker 1: but how do you think this will turn out? So

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are sort of struggling

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Speaker 1: with what you're you know, what you're describing is we

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Speaker 1: love Johnny Depp. We don't want to believe that he

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Speaker 1: was the aggressor here. You know, today we have testimony

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Speaker 1: from a psychologist saying Amber Heard has porterline personality disorder.

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Speaker 1: And you know, she's clearly from the videos and the

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Speaker 1: audio that we're hearing, I mean, she's got a lot

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Speaker 1: of issues too, and she's causing a lot of this.

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Speaker 1: Their own marriage counselor described them as being mutually abusive.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's kind of like we recognize, you know,

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Speaker 1: we either some people have been or they know people

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Speaker 1: who have just been in these toxic relationships where their

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Speaker 1: traumas are attracted to each other and they can't get out,

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Speaker 1: like they are horrible to one another, but they love

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Speaker 1: each other. And it just sounds like that. So if

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Speaker 1: there's anyone on the jury that kind of knows people

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Speaker 1: like that or has been in a relationship like that,

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Speaker 1: or even is just watching the evidence, is like, you,

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Speaker 1: guys are both involved in this somehow, you know. So

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Speaker 1: that's going to make the case really hard for him

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Speaker 1: to prove. It's so interesting because she keeps filming him

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Speaker 1: when he doesn't know he's being filmed, and it's like,

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Speaker 1: are you doing that because you were trying to show

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Speaker 1: people the abuse because it's happened so many times, or

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Speaker 1: because you are trying to trap someone and somehow catch

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Speaker 1: them in a moment out of context, you know? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I just yeah, So so you don't so do you

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Speaker 1: feel like you know who will come out on top

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Speaker 1: in this case? I think that the jury is going

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Speaker 1: to be kind of tired of hearing all this after

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Speaker 1: six weeks, and they're gonna be I think there's enough

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Speaker 1: there to really say that they were both involved in

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Speaker 1: the abuse and there's different kinds of abuse, right, So

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Speaker 1: it's not just physical. There's a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: emotional abuse and psychological abuse. I mean the kind of

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Speaker 1: the stuff you hear her saying about, like why would

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Speaker 1: you or want to work with you? You know, like

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Speaker 1: they they are a classy brand, like why would they

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Speaker 1: want why would they want you? Like stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: you know, or it's like it's super degrading and just

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Speaker 1: not a healthy, healthy relationships. So I think people are

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Speaker 1: going to see that and not be able to say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this was a one way thing. Do you think there's

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Speaker 1: any way that she goes and testifies and just ruins

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Speaker 1: it for herself. You know, it's interesting they have, UM,

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Speaker 1: they have people like like you know, people study human behavior,

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Speaker 1: UM sort of watching her. She's been really good about

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Speaker 1: kind of having this very stoic, like straight face, trying

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Speaker 1: not to react to too many things. But there's people

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Speaker 1: that are observing her, you know, especially with the case

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Speaker 1: like this, when you have millions of dollars being spent

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Speaker 1: on legal fees, everyone's interpreting and analyzing everything that happens

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Speaker 1: in that courtroom, from every single juror you know, to her.

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Speaker 1: And I was watching this thing. Um it was actually

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Speaker 1: on air with this woman who was um like observing

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Speaker 1: her microbe expressions, and there was a moment where she

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Speaker 1: was expressing like contempt because just like one side of

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Speaker 1: her cheek was up like you couldn't even notice it.

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Speaker 1: So I think that if people, and I think people

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Speaker 1: kind of feel those things like they don't realize what's

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Speaker 1: happening necessarily, but that's how we kind of gauge people,

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Speaker 1: is like body language. So I think there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways where she can she can hurt herself, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's going to be an uphill battle for

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Speaker 1: her just because she's going second. We've heard so much

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Speaker 1: about her. Mm hmm. Okay, Tom too. Do you have

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Speaker 1: any final questions or can we move on? We have

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Speaker 1: a couple of moments with Mitra and I want to

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Speaker 1: slide in a couple of Mike Tyson questions, a couple

386
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Speaker 1: of eyes after hockey questions. Yeah, no, I want to

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Speaker 1: as well. Okay, awesome, Semitra. I know because we don't

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Speaker 1: have that much time with you, we also just want

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Speaker 1: to ask you quickly, what do you think is going

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Speaker 1: to happen with the Mike Tyson incident? You know, do

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Speaker 1: you see I mean, like, do you think he'll get

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Speaker 1: charged for punching the other passenger even though he was

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Speaker 1: the one being provoked? I think so. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think physical is a whole another level. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: that's sort of you know, it's there's a separate line

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Speaker 1: for physical um, and that's that's battery. Um. And so

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Speaker 1: I think there's a criminal element. There's also federal like

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Speaker 1: federal laws when in the in an airplane. Um. And

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Speaker 1: so there's those kinds of laws that are specific to

400
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Speaker 1: being on board with a plane where people can't really

401
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Speaker 1: escape and you're you know, threatening the lives of other people. UM.

402
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Speaker 1: So there's an issue with that, and people take that

403
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Speaker 1: really seriously because of not only terrorism, but because of

404
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Speaker 1: the stuff we've seen with the mask bandate and people

405
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Speaker 1: getting kind of aggressive with flight attendants. UM. And then

406
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Speaker 1: of course, you know, the guy that got beat up

407
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Speaker 1: is going to sue Mike Tyson and get a lot

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Speaker 1: of money. M hmm. Do you think Mike Tyson will

409
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Speaker 1: have will be eligible to counter sue. I don't know.

410
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Speaker 1: I mean, I think I'll certainly try because a lot

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Speaker 1: of times these things happen, things people countersuit to kind

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Speaker 1: of protect their image. But it's probably something that's going

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Speaker 1: to settle that we might not even hear about. Mm hmm.

414
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Speaker 1: And do you think that this will get Mike Tyson

415
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Speaker 1: on some sort of like no fly list or does

416
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Speaker 1: hee kind of walk around scotfree after this? I mean

417
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Speaker 1: this also is really interesting. Yeah, I mean this also

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Speaker 1: feels reminiscent of Will Smith and Chris Rock. It's like,

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Speaker 1: even though Chris Rock didn't press any charges, Will Smith

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Speaker 1: did face a lot of consequences and he's not allowed

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Speaker 1: back at the OSCARS for ten years. Yeah. So with

422
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Speaker 1: Mike Tyson, I mean, no finalists. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: the rules are around that specifically, but definitely not whatever

424
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: that airline was. And also Mike Tyson should be flying

425
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: private anyway because he's Mike Tyson. Don't shots fired? Shots fired? Yeah?

426
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: You know what his thought when he punched the guy

427
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 1: in the face is probably like, why am I still

428
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: flying commercial? Right? How did it here? Yeah? Let me

429
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: make sure I never have to fly commercial again. I

430
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: know a way. I'm only one row away from a

431
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: guy like this commander right, dear lord, that Mike Tyson.

432
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: It's just it's weird because when you're that famous, I

433
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 1: didn't even know you could fly commercial. How do you

434
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: walk through the airport? It's rough, Yeah, it is rough.

435
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: I mean I have a lot of clients obviously who

436
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 1: you know, are flying because the projects that they work

437
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: on are not paying for private planes. They're typically paying

438
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: for it for class trouble, and so they're all Most celebrities,

439
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: unless they're arranging or going through something other than work,

440
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: you might catch them in an airport at some point.

441
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 1: So that's why you see people with bodyguards. I guess

442
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: my cousin doesn't need a bodyguard, right hilarious is an

443
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: extra fee for being his own bodyguard, right, Yeah. So

444
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: if you wanna catch a celebrity, just hang out at

445
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: L a X all day you might see one. Yeah.

446
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: And lastly, just real quick, so we want to ask

447
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: about the asap Rocky arrest. Do you think that he

448
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: knew or that we knew that this was coming when

449
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 1: he landed back in the States after all the drama

450
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: with him in Rihanna and their little vacation after the

451
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: whole cheating incident. I don't think so. Um, because usually

452
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 1: when something like that happens, people call the cops. You know,

453
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: people do something right away. Why didn't Why weren't the

454
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 1: cops called in that moment, especially if there was an injury? Right, So,

455
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: now we're months later, months down the line, which always

456
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: makes the cop, the police's case a lot harder anyway,

457
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: because you don't really have the evidence that you had before.

458
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: You're not right there on the scene where people are

459
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: fresh with their memories. Um. So, I mean, and I

460
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: also think anytime you have someone in the press living

461
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: their best life and someone's like, now you're out there

462
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: living your best life and you try to shoot me, No,

463
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: it's a little damper on things. Yeah, that's a good

464
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: way of putting it. Yeah, boy, I mean all right, well, Dmitri,

465
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: do you have any final questions? Real quick? Is there

466
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 1: any has there ever been in a case where you're

467
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: representing somebody and you're like, I cannot touch this. I'm

468
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: not doing this for either moral reason or you and

469
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: you don't have to tell us what it was. But

470
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: is the one where you're just like, I'm out of here.

471
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,959
Speaker 1: I've I've actually had to let go of clients because

472
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 1: I felt like they were they were the problem. Um

473
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: in a lot of situations. Yeah, it was. It just

474
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: kind of became clear that like, this is you. This

475
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: is not right now, It's not me, it's you. Um.

476
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: But yeah, and you know, I'm really lucky. I have

477
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: my own firm and I started it because I want

478
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,719
Speaker 1: to work with people I love and I believe in.

479
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: I work with a lot of artists and um and

480
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: producers who want to change the world, and there for

481
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: the most part, really good people. So I kinda I'm

482
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: I'm lucky to be able to sort of pass on

483
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: people that that I'm like, yeah, you're not. Like. There

484
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: was one guy. Remember I can say this because he's

485
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: not a client, but I just remember like the first

486
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: phone call we had, he was just going like he

487
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: had a temper problem. He was just kind of like

488
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: it was it was bad, And I was like, I'm

489
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: I can see what I'm going to be dealing with

490
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: for months and no, thank you. It's really cool. Yeah,

491
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: no one could pay you enough. They're just people. No

492
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: one can pay be enough. Yeah, well I don't have

493
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: a law degree, but you could pay me enough to

494
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: do nothing for you. Mitro, will you wrap me? You're

495
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: so cool? I love it. I love comedians. I have

496
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: a couple of comedian clients and you guys, you guys

497
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,479
Speaker 1: are awesome. Oh my god, Well we could talk offline

498
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: about that, but are you planning crimes? I mean you

499
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: know me? Yeah, Mitra, this has been incredible. Thank you

500
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: so much for bringing your expertise, your insight, and your

501
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: humor today to the podcast. We appreciate you so much.

502
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: And is there anything you want the audience to know

503
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: or if you want them to follow you online or

504
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: anything like that? Um My Instagram and Twitter Metra e

505
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: s Q, so if you want to follow me there.

506
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: I also do a lot of analysis on the Johnny

507
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: Depp case like on TV, so I post that stuff. Um,

508
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: if you want to follow that more then yeah? Would

509
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: you rather represent Johnny or Amber? God? I mean, come on,

510
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: no brainer. Johnny Depp who want to be working with

511
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: every single day and like you know, for months and months.

512
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: So yeahing. Well, thank you so much for coming on

513
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: the podcast. You are amazing and we so appreciate your

514
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,479
Speaker 1: insights today than anytime. Guys, be careful what you wish for.

515
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: You know, my favorite part of the Amber heard Johnny

516
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: Depp trial is listening to him how oh like you

517
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: know she threw a bottle at his finger and the

518
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: tip cut off, and then he mixed you with blood

519
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: and pain and then started like drawing on the walls

520
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: penis and then then like I love you. Hey, whatever

521
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: right because it doesn't no, But I'm like this sounds

522
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: like some Billy Bob Thornton, Angelina Jolie bullshit where they're like,

523
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: we're having vials of blood with each other's names on

524
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: them and a piece of rice and the necklace and

525
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: I threw it in the backyard and now it doesn't

526
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: know where it is. And then when you look up

527
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: what happened. Billy Bob Thornton and Amber Heard were shooting

528
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: a movie together, and that is what calls the drama.

529
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: And I'm like, see, I knew it. Billy Bobb is

530
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: somehow Billy Bob is the problem. Why isn't he testifying? Yeah, alright, guys,

531
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: I think let's take a little quick break before we

532
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: bring on our next guests. What do you think? Dmitri agree?

533
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: I love that for us, guys, don't commit any crimes.

534
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: See in a minute. Hey, hello everyone, and welcome back

535
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: to Real Time Crime. I'm your host Lee Lamar, and

536
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: I have with me sometimes Dmitri what's up. Wow. Dmitri

537
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: is thrilled to be here today. I just want to

538
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: get to the next guest. I'm excited. Okay, okay. Our

539
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: next guests are Ben Crompton and Alex where So. So.

540
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: They're both producers on this new incredible show called ABC's

541
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: Who Do You Believe, which comes out May third. That's

542
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: when it airs. Okay, So, Who Do You Believe is

543
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: a new series that features simultaneous storytelling to take viewers

544
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: through compelling true crime cases from dual perspectives, and in

545
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: each episode, the audience steps into the shoes of two

546
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: contrasting narratives to hear the recounts directly from the victims

547
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: and criminals with never before revealed details. Then the viewer

548
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: plays armchair detective to deduce and piece together different versions

549
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: of the truth. This sounds almost like a comedy, but

550
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: it's not. This is real, okay, So, because we all

551
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: know that there are always two sides to every story,

552
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: and there's no telling how far one would go for

553
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: their marriage, child, their way of life. Within this unique

554
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: storytelling format, every episode culminates by revealing key details from

555
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: the adjudicated cases, leaving you to question, who do you

556
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: Believe and it's being produced by Line Pictures and in

557
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: association with Walt Disney and and Ben Crompton is one

558
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: of the executive producers, and Alex Wereso is the showrunner

559
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: and EPs, and we have them both with us here

560
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: today and I'm really excited to chat with them. Hello,

561
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: how are you, Alex? I'm fantastic And I think Ben, Hello, Ben,

562
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, nice to meet you. Very nice to

563
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: meet that accent. Okay, so, gentlemen, we've already introduced you,

564
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: so we're going to go right into it because we're

565
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: so excited to hear more about who do you believe

566
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: and about your careers in general. And for those who

567
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: may not be as familiar with you both, can you

568
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about how you got excited

569
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: about the true crime genre? M M yeah, I mean

570
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: it's a good question. I think truth crime is is

571
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: a really exciting space and has been for the last

572
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: decade right on all platforms. And what I think we

573
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: particularly liked it at Lime when we were looking at

574
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,719
Speaker 1: the genres as with the development team, was like, we

575
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: love stories. When we were really trying to put ourselves

576
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: into people's heads, not necessarily in you know, interested in

577
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: the the facts or the intricacies of the evidence, but

578
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: more like how how these people went through their experiences,

579
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: like what was actually going through their head when something

580
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: crazy happens or something bad happens, and you know, how

581
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: did they rationalize what was happening and then also how

582
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: did they experience it versus how the other side experienced it.

583
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: So we love true crying, but I think we felt

584
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: like we really wanted to get inside people's heads more

585
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: than what we're finding on on you know, lots of

586
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: shows that were involved in um so that's what kind

587
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: of led to the development of this show. That's how

588
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: we kind of started the process on it. We wanted

589
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: to actually speak to people on both sides of a

590
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: crime and find out what what their experiences was in full,

591
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: without being influenced by what the verdict was. I think

592
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: that's that's brilliant because um, well, everybody wants to play

593
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: arms to our quarterback, but it's brilliant to to bring

594
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: up both sides. Because we were just talking about the

595
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: Johnny Depp and for heard thing and people said, oh,

596
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: you know, people have many have said, oh, they're both

597
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: at fault, they're both crazy and they're both this, but

598
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: what it's what's interesting is to sit there and look

599
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: at Okay, well, yes they both did this, but did

600
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: this happen first? And then you gotta put yourself in

601
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: their shoes. If this was happening to me, how would

602
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: I react? Would I then do something crazy? Because you're

603
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: just so it's it's interesting to see how things unfold

604
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: and look at it that way. So I think that's

605
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: a great idea, and that's kind of what our show

606
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: is too. But putting those two perspective side by side.

607
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: So when Johnny Depp makes an accusation about what happened

608
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: that one night, we then play Amber heard right up

609
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 1: against him and she responds exactly, and we do them separately.

610
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 1: All our interviews are done separately. But I don't know

611
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: if you've had a chance to to look at the show,

612
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: but we had this device where all of our master

613
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: wide shots they kind of make up a half of

614
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: a room, so symmetrically, when you piece them together, looks

615
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: like they're in the same room, which creates this interesting

616
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 1: effect of having them in the same room but they're not.

617
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 1: But you get these outsized reactions, you know, as if

618
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: the other person wasn't listening to them, but for the

619
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: audience subconsciously, it kind of puts them together. And I

620
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: like playing with with that device. Um and I think

621
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: that's kind of what's going on in a lot of

622
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: these criminal cases. And you know, who do you actually

623
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: believe is at the root of what you're thinking? But

624
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: we're bringing that in the forefront and kind of simplifying

625
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: the format. Two, it's not you know, detectives with cops

626
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: and this and that. It's two voices primarily for most

627
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: of these episodes, and it's just their opinions, and it's

628
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: bringing their sides of the story to life. Um. And

629
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: we have dual perspective p o vs in recreation that

630
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: we're playing around. Split screen is as well. UM. So

631
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: the split screen thing is is imperative to our show

632
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 1: and um kind of takes from that those court trial

633
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 1: things you know. Um yeah, scream scenes very metaverse. But okay,

634
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: So has there been anything that has surprised you about

635
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: the show, anything that you learned you you thought you

636
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: might not, for example, where you actually decided that you

637
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: really were citing with the criminal instead of the victim,

638
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: or are all these cases very um equally matched in

639
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: a sense or does it feel like there are some

640
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: that are very lops We tried to make them all

641
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: equally matched, and that was one of the criteria for

642
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: picking a story. You know, can I actually believe this person?

643
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: If somebody's story was so unbelievable or they didn't believe

644
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: in their own story, they did not make the cut

645
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: for our show. Um, that was very important that you

646
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: actually could go along for that ride. You know, in

647
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: one act you're believing that Charity is correct, and the

648
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: next act you're like, oh, now she's a liar. It's

649
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: definitely Marcus who's telling the truth. And I love going

650
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: back and forth, right what kind of crimes? It properly

651
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: pinballs back and forth, And that's what we willed to

652
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: really play with. And it's also not just who you believe,

653
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: it's also who do you relate to the most? And

654
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: who's who's a response to a certain situation, did you

655
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: did you understand the most? I think viewers go on

656
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: a real journey in there. It's not just their allegiances

657
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: tested as they try to decide who is right and wrong.

658
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: You know that it is their allegiance, you know, tested

659
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: as to who they like the most. At certain scenarios

660
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: and and whose head they can get in the most.

661
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: So you know, it's it's been fascinating. It is a

662
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: proper journey, and it does feel completely different and unexpected

663
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 1: pre each episode. And what types of primes do you feature?

664
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: Lots of different times. I don't want to tell you

665
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: all of them, but some of them are more domestic disputes.

666
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 1: I don't want to give away the endings. There are

667
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: a good share of murders, but nothing's too like gruesome.

668
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: A good share of murders, good share of murders. You know,

669
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: we're aiming for like fifty umme party. But it's it's

670
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: ABC prime time, you know, so we don't want to

671
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 1: get to too gory to you heavy you know. Um,

672
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that murder is not heavy. It's always

673
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: pretty heavy. Um what else can I say? There's a

674
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: conservatorship battle in episode to all of the um Britney

675
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: Spears case. This one is with Michelle Nichols, who was

676
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: the first African American UM actress on Star Trek the

677
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: original series with Robert Chattner, Robert Chatner, Richard what's his name,

678
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: Willie chat Robber or somebody else. Yeah, Um, so there's

679
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: a conservator ship. Um, a couple of murders. I don't

680
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: want to give away the first one, I think, I think,

681
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: I mean what the reason why we don't want to

682
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: give anything away is the kind of whole point of

683
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: this show is we want everything to be reset at

684
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: the top of the episode and you meet two parties,

685
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: and then over the course of that episode, the story

686
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: will unfold and your legences will be tested, and you know,

687
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: we really do want it to feel unexpected. And you know,

688
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: is that it's saying we do explore murder from two sides.

689
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,919
Speaker 1: We explore conservative ship, we have some theft in there,

690
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: we have some interesting black moil for us. It's a

691
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: really interesting way to kind of fit different crime and

692
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: crime adjacent stories into this format framework and see how

693
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: it pays out. Do you struggle at all putting that together? So,

694
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: for instance, like a lawyer would say, I'm a public

695
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: defending I'm defending this person, but in their head they

696
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: know they're guilty. Do you have trouble putting these together

697
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,919
Speaker 1: and maybe thinking I'm gonna make this person look too

698
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: good or I don't want them to look as good

699
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: because they're clearly the ones obviously you're trying to go

700
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: down the middle because you want people to to kind of,

701
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: you know, like you said, play armature quarterback and make

702
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: their own decisions. But do you struggle with that and

703
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: putting it together? A do, And it's something we get

704
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: a lot of development on before we got to the

705
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: stage of pitching it actually, because you know, there are

706
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: many shades are right or wrong. Clearly some people are

707
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 1: right and some people are wrong, but we're not we're

708
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: not cast as versions on that. When we're not as

709
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 1: producers pointing out what is right right and what is wrong,

710
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: we are allowing them to air their truth, the truth

711
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: that they experienced it, how they experienced it, and eventually

712
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: the truth, the truth will catch up with them. And

713
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: you know, in the later part of the episodes, we

714
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 1: have the verdict and we have the you know, the

715
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: results of the adjudication. So you know, we're not really

716
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: were What we really want to explore is that people's

717
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: own perspectives and logical experiences, they skew their own version

718
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: of the truth, but that's their version of the truth.

719
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: You know, they fully believe that, and then it's down

720
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: to the viewers to deduce whether they believe any part

721
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: of that. Really, it's down to them. I have a

722
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: million more questions, right, but I mean I want to

723
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: ask you more about true crime, obviously, but I just

724
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: want to quickly pivot and ask a very selfish question. Um, Alex,

725
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: I know that you were an EP and showrunner on

726
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: Lea Remini Scientology in the Aftermath Soil series. I'm wondering

727
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: where did you guys receive any threats from Scientology? Um?

728
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 1: A lot of letters, Um, a lot of letters telling

729
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 1: us not to But did I I never myself felt

730
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: physically threatened. Um. There was a couple occasions where there

731
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:24,919
Speaker 1: may have been somebody outside of my house and going

732
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 1: through my trash and things like that, but UM, you know, nothing,

733
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: nothing too intense of what some of those people on

734
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: that show have experienced. The amount of fair game that

735
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: Scientology has opposed on these people is brutal when ripped

736
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 1: those families apart. So I'm very grateful that none of

737
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 1: that has happened to me and they haven't come after

738
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: me full force. But it was the original showrunner on

739
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: that show, and yeah, it was a it was a

740
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: tough decision. One season was was enough for me. Um.

741
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: They didn't, you know, make an attack page attacking me?

742
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: Thankfully knock on wood, there's still time. Um. Yeah, I

743
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: was kind of putty. Would you be hesitant there? I

744
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: was in a bunch of that that first season, and

745
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 1: they were kind of following us around and they would

746
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,919
Speaker 1: show up at airports when we were there and they'd

747
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: have the p I s waiting for us, and you know,

748
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: they would a lot of It's just intimidation, but not

749
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: a lot of bite behind the park. Would you be

750
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: hesitant to do something like that again? Yeah, I feel

751
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: like I've already done that. I have a family now,

752
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: and I feel like I escaped unscathed, and I think

753
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: that's a good thing. Um, I've done that. I've told

754
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: those stories to tell other stories, but my heart is

755
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 1: still with those those victims. Wow. Okay, well we won't

756
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: press too much on that and we'll just pivot real fast,

757
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 1: Ben Alex, do you guys have a favorite true crime story?

758
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: And I put favorite in air quotes because it's like,

759
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 1: you know, how can you have a favorite story about murder?

760
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 1: But do you have a case that you are super

761
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 1: passionate about or something that really threw you into true

762
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 1: crime in the first place. Mmm, I notice. I mean

763
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: the lead remedy thing is what kind of got me

764
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,280
Speaker 1: in that space, and it's kind of true crime adjacent.

765
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 1: I had never done true crime before. I did more

766
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: kind of British experimental social experiment shows like Undercover Boss

767
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: and Wife Swap, more more formatted kind of stuff. Um,

768
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: but I always wanted to do more serious stuff. I mean,

769
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: I saw that Alex give Me Going Clear thing and

770
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: it seemed like a incredible new world to discover. And

771
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: that's that's one of my favorite parts about producing, is

772
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: just learning about new world and immersing yourself in that.

773
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: And true crime offers a lot of that. You know, um,

774
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: people from all different kinds of socio economic backgrounds, and

775
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: to get to know those people in their circumstances and

776
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: tell their stories is an interesting part for me. But

777
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: now there's no one that really sticks out. I guess

778
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: the Natalie Holloway case. I did a series on Natalie

779
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: Holloway when Oxygen first launched into true crime, and I

780
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: got to know they've all the way pretty well, spent

781
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: a year with him as he searched for his daughter,

782
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: so that one kind of emotionally unattached to Ben. Do

783
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: you know what I'm I'm less of a true crime

784
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: fanatic in the sense that I you know, I don't

785
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 1: track stories. I watch good great docks. You know, I

786
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: love the stuff that raw do. I love in The Swindler.

787
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: You know, I love going back to the Impostor, which

788
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: is like a decade ago. You know, I love a

789
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: great version of storytelling. Um, you know, true crime story.

790
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm raptured by all of the stories

791
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: that everyone else are talking about. I've been watching a

792
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: hell of a lot of Johnny Depp and versus Amber Heard.

793
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: I find it just fascinating and kind of you know,

794
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: um interesting, how he is enacting himself and court and

795
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: how that process is all working out. But you know,

796
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: I'm really drawn. I what I really like is that

797
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: the way that the production community are telling true crime

798
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: stories and the way that they're telling them. So I'm

799
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: a big fan more of the format behind a lot

800
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: of that. You know. What I find is maddening is

801
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: um which is nice that you guys are doing this

802
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: with your show and showing different things, but stuff like

803
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: the the just laying Maxwell because Ley Maxwell and stuff. No,

804
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: there's no cameras, isn't We're just left out here to

805
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 1: speculate what's happening, right, Johnny Depp and never heard we're

806
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: getting full on, like all this stuff. It's maddening that

807
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 1: there's stuff that's not not to put one crime over another,

808
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: but one of them, in my opinion, is more serious

809
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: because it affects a lot of people, that affects children

810
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 1: as underage, and yet we we can't know and I

811
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: understand that that's part of that, but we don't know

812
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: enough about what's going on, and it just kind of

813
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: fades away. But this Johnny Depp, we're getting six weeks

814
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: straight up of a bad marriage. Yeah. I'm starting to

815
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: think there's a merged store outside the courtroom. Yeah. I

816
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: also think, you know, so much of it is about

817
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: the process of court. So much of it is just

818
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: an answer to, uh, you know, a defense question. It

819
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: doesn't I'm not really I'm getting snippets of responsive. I'm

820
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: not really able to build a full picture. And you know,

821
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: it kind of goes back to what I like about

822
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: some great crime docs and what we're trying to do

823
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: with our show as well. There's like I want to

824
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: hear the full story. I don't want to keep being

825
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: interrupted by a lawyer saying, let's hearsay, you know, just

826
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: let me just hear it, let me understand it and

827
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: get inside their head and what they experienced. Um. And

828
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,720
Speaker 1: I also think it's it's more accessible to the Johnny

829
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: Depp amber heard stuff even have you know, domestic violence

830
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: is and a like subject, But compared to the um

831
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: Giselle Maxwell stuff, that stuff gets really dark and really

832
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: heavy and that stuff. You know, I don't know how

833
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: much time you can emotionally invest in that kind of

834
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: stuff day after day, you know. In being producing a

835
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: lot of true crime stuff, it wears on you. I

836
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 1: don't know if anybody talks about that, but it's it's

837
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: hard to to shake some of these stories when you

838
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: come home and you want something a little bit lighter.

839
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: So I think most people that I know who actually

840
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: make true crime don't like to watch it when they

841
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: go home. Um, it's it's it's a lot so that stuff,

842
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: like what you too, It's just it's more entertainment, you know.

843
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 1: And I think our show kind of falls in that

844
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 1: line to where, yeah, it's it's still murder and stuff,

845
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: but it's not as intense, all encompassing. I can't go

846
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 1: to sleep that night, you know, Yeah, what do you

847
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: do when you go home? Like, if you've had a

848
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: long day of producing something that's super heavy and and

849
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 1: you feel so you said you'd like to kind of

850
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 1: move away from it. What do you do when you

851
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: go home? Do you watch a certain show? Do you

852
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: what do you do to kind of get that feel

853
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 1: kiss off of you to spend some of your kiss

854
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: my little baby girl. And that's what I do. I

855
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: spend time with my family and try not to think

856
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 1: or discuss work and stuff. My wife also works in

857
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: the business, because she's always interested about what I'm doing.

858
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 1: But the last thing I want to do sometimes is

859
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: is talking about murder again when I've been talking about

860
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: it all day long. Um, so funny, I'm the opposite.

861
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: But I also don't have a family or anyone who

862
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: loves me here, so it doesn't really matter. It's just

863
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: me talking to me, So she's just talking about murder,

864
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: whether someone's in the room or not. It's basically where

865
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 1: that comes down to. Yeah, and Ben, do you have

866
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: a routine for watching selling Sunset? I do have a

867
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: lovely family, and I kissed them on the foreheads as well,

868
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,879
Speaker 1: and then I watched Selling sunset for maybe an hour.

869
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,240
Speaker 1: And that's my that's my general's fisher. We we produce

870
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: a lot of reality as well a lot of entertainment format.

871
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: So luckily I'm not one buried in the true crime world. Um,

872
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: and so I have other events, which is great, and

873
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: a family. Yeah, so if you guys could bring up

874
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:42,760
Speaker 1: your families one more time. Yeah, hey you guys, I'm married,

875
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: I have four kids, so yeah, alright, alright, guys, I

876
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: got it. Okay, But as soon as we're done here,

877
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go kiss my kids and you know, tell

878
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,959
Speaker 1: him I love you. So but Leah's going to a visa,

879
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 1: so don't don't make it seem like she doesn't have

880
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: anything going on. She's going to Europe for like a month.

881
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 1: Oh I know. Well because they don't have a family,

882
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: so yeah, um, you know the trade offs. But okay,

883
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: So your show airs on May third on ABC. It's

884
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: called Who Do You Believe? And do either of you

885
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 1: have anything you want to share about the show that

886
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: we may not have covered, or anything that might surprise

887
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: viewers or excite them that we didn't get to talk

888
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: about today, or anything anything any final notes about the show.

889
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: I think every every episode is different. You know, every

890
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: episode there's one special two part of but every every

891
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 1: episode is its own true crime story or dispute um.

892
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: You know, it is told from the two central perspectives involved,

893
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 1: and it's fascinating and we can't wait to hear what

894
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 1: people think about it. You know what. I like the

895
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 1: idea that debates will continue after they have watched the episode.

896
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,919
Speaker 1: You know, people will still have questions after they've seen

897
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: the verdict and after they've heard both sides um. The

898
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: other thing I will say is that it's incredibly brave

899
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: for both sides to, you know, appear on something like this.

900
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: We found from responses from the been involved that it's

901
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: also a really cathartic experience for them. Is they're able

902
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: to fully air their perspective and get a right to

903
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: apply to some of those opposing, contrasting perspectives that they

904
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: didn't get a chance to do before. So I think

905
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: I'll be interested to hear what they think. That's one

906
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: of the most challenging parts of actually getting people to

907
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 1: participate in the show. We're up front that the other

908
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: side is going to have their equal airing, and oftentimes

909
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: this is their mortal enemy in life and knowing that

910
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 1: they're going to have the rights to reply scares a

911
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: lot of people away and they don't want the other

912
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 1: side to have their opinion aired. So that's been a

913
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: challenge with the people, to de Ben's point who have

914
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: agreed to do it, have been been brave and I

915
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 1: feel like we're we're giving them each a fair shakes

916
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: as much as we can. Yeah, I can see that,

917
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: and I can see that. Do you have problems with

918
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 1: lawyers wanting stuff out? No? No, yeah, um, but so

919
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: but you what you're saying about in the courtroom, you

920
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 1: were saying that, you know, you're always being interrupted and

921
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: there is here say that. But that's they've got to

922
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: feel good about that, because that's gotta be frustrating for

923
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: them as well when they understand, oh I didn't say correctly,

924
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: oh this person so they can just sit down and

925
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 1: tell their side of the story. So I can see

926
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 1: how there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind

927
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: the scenes to corroborate, you know, the things that they're saying,

928
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: and in legal documents and in other ways. Um, but yeah,

929
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: there are certainly as any true crunch, there's lots of

930
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 1: legal landlines to navigate through. Yeah, but you're right though,

931
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: it's that and it's not just went that what went

932
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: down in court, it's also you know, how the case

933
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: was reported, and you know what their family or their

934
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: community that the kind of the nuggets of the case

935
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: that they've held onto that they want to finally have

936
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: a chance to kind of rebuff or they want to

937
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: have a chance to respond to something that's kind of

938
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: been a shadow over them for a long time. So

939
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,959
Speaker 1: it is it isn't you know, fascinating to see how

940
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: their story has evolved and how good they feel after

941
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 1: they've been able to fully air in. Can I just

942
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 1: say Legal land Mines is the best name for show

943
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: for lawyers who've had difficult cases, Alex, I mean, I'd

944
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 1: love to come on as a creative story producer. Just

945
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:15,439
Speaker 1: let me know I'm available for hire, And I will say, also, Ben,

946
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: you know, I noticed that you were one of the

947
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 1: EPs on Ease Dating No Filter. If you haven't noticed,

948
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 1: I don't have a family, I'm very lonely and I

949
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: have no filter. So if there's a season to just

950
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:32,919
Speaker 1: let me know. We cast like it was really fun,

951
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,320
Speaker 1: you know, having a comedic commentary on top of dates

952
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,879
Speaker 1: dates always funny, you know. So yeah, it's a very

953
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 1: different show to this, but they're funny when you're married

954
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: and have a family. That's all I'll say. Dating is

955
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 1: no longer fun. I'm not having fun. No one's having fun.

956
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: Are you think? I love how I've convinced three men

957
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: that I'm not? Okay? All right, Um, gentlemen, this has

958
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: been such an honor, unemploy sure having you here today.

959
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: I guess I just want to give you both the

960
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 1: floor for any final thoughts that you may have or

961
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 1: anything you want to share with the audience or where

962
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: we can find you on the internet. Yeah, Internet that

963
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: We want as many true crime fans to watch it

964
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: as possible. ABC have been just wonderful partners of this,

965
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 1: you know, really are benchmark raising and you know exciting

966
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 1: home for True Crime on on Hulu as well. So um, yeah,

967
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,479
Speaker 1: we're excited to see how it how it pans out

968
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,439
Speaker 1: and let us know what you're thinking. Thank you, thank

969
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: you for the time. I appreciate it, Thank you. I'm

970
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: so excited to watch the show. This is a really

971
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 1: novel idea and both of you have worked on such

972
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 1: a wide gamut of genres and all the shows you

973
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 1: worked on have been super successful, so I don't doubt

974
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: that this will be just another hit for both of you.

975
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: Very excited to watch it. So that's May third on ABC.

976
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 1: Who do you Believe? And you know we're gonna be

977
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: talking about it, so make sure you watch it. Yeah, brilliant.

978
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 1: We look forward to that. Yeah, thanks guys, having thank you,

979
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: And then there were two there. It is. That's the

980
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: tough thing about guests is when they leave, then there's

981
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: that that's silence in the house. Yeah. See when guests

982
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: usually leave my house, I'm like, thank god, now I

983
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 1: can fart. You're not doing that now though, right M.

984
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:28,800
Speaker 1: I like those guys. I loved every guest we had today.

985
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 1: Every guest we had today was x Yeah. I felt

986
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: bad when um when Ben said that he had a family,

987
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 1: because I know it's a little twinkle in your eye.

988
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 1: When he first came on, You're like, oh, I'd like

989
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 1: to welcome your accent and your handsome face. Hello. Yes,

990
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 1: Alex is here too, Hello, Ben, tell me about yourself.

991
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,479
Speaker 1: I don't know what made you think that I would

992
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: like to go adithan Acentum. That was Australian by the way. Okay,

993
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 1: you guys please DM me at Leo lamar l e

994
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: A H l A m A r R. You already

995
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: know this. Let me know if you think Amber Heard

996
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 1: will win the trial or Johnny Depp. Also, we're going

997
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 1: to post a clip, so just post on the clip,

998
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: post on the reel. I want to know who you

999
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: think is going to win this trial. And as always,

1000
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 1: call in live baby, leave us a voice smail if

1001
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 1: you've got a hot tip for us, or if there's

1002
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: a case you think that we should be looking into,

1003
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: or a bit of information that we didn't know, let

1004
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: us know. It is an open forum calling it eight

1005
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:34,399
Speaker 1: that's eight six six twenty one crimes. Normally there's someone

1006
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: eight six six two two seven four six three. Al Right,

1007
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: social sleuths, I love you very much. I'll see you

1008
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 1: from across the world next week, and stay safe, don't

1009
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: commit any crimes as usual. Love you very much. Bye bye.

1010
00:55:53,200 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 1: It's real time gra real time gro I mean, is

1011
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: it actually real time crime when I'm solving anything or

1012
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 1: is that just the thing we say, it's a thing

1013
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 1: we say, got it? Okay, see you next week for

1014
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 1: more real time crime only on I Heart Radio.