1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: Col Zone Media. In March of twenty twenty five, a 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: few dozen white nationalists from across the country gathered at 3 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: a castle in the mountains. The meeting itself wasn't really 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: a secret, it had been announced months ahead of time, 5 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: but it was a private event, and the location was 6 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,319 Speaker 1: a closely guarded secret, shared only with those on the 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: invite list at elector and adorned with a golden eagle 8 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: and flanked by flags bearing fascies and lightning bolts. Speeches 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: were made by movement leaders spanning generations, men in their 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: seventies nearing the end of their decades long careers as 11 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: white nationalist organizers, and men in their twenties looking ahead 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: to the movement's future. During an afternoon break between speeches, 13 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: the keynote speaker took off a suit jacket in bolow 14 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: tie to oversee a shirtless, bare knuckle boxing match on 15 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: the lawn. The American Freedom Party has changed its logo, 16 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: its leadership, and even its name over the fifteen years 17 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: since it was first founded as the American Third Position Party, 18 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: but they are still who they've always been, a handful 19 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: of racists and suits whose inability to properly fill out 20 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: paperwork keeps getting in the way of their dreams of 21 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: a white ethno state. I'm Molly Conker. This this weird 22 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: little guy. When we left off last week, we were 23 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: talking about the strange winding road that led a white 24 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: nationalist group called the American Third Position Party to run 25 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: a failed filmmaker for president in twenty twelve. By his 26 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: own account, Merilyn Miller had never been all that interested 27 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: in politics, that is, until he had his political awakening 28 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: after nine to eleven. He'd been trying unsuccessfully to sell 29 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: the distribution rights to his second film, a western called Jericho, 30 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: when he met a man who had served aboard the 31 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: U s S. Liberty in nineteen sixty seven when the 32 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 1: ship was bombed by the Israeli Air Force. Batman introduced 33 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: Merlin Miller to the wide world of conspiracy theory surrounding 34 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: the incident and connected him with Richard Thompson, a Navy 35 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: veteran who had recently helped finance a documentary about it. 36 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: For several years, Thompson and Miller discussed making a movie 37 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: about the US Liberty, not another documentary that had been done, 38 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: but an action thriller set in the modern day, connecting 39 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: the conspiracy theories that have grown up around that incident 40 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: with those About nine to eleven, the screenplay was written 41 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: and ready to go. The movie was going to be 42 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: called False Flag. Miller would direct and produce it, and 43 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: Thompson was going to be the moneyman. When Richard Thompson 44 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: died unexpectedly in the summer of tearwo thousand and seven, 45 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: the project stalled out. Without funding, he couldn't make the movie, 46 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: and it looks like he redirected some of that energy 47 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: into the Ron Paul campaign. Federal Election Commission records show 48 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: that Merlin Miller made his first ever federal campaign contribution 49 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: in November of two thousand and seven when he gave 50 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: Ron Paul one hundred dollars. He even threw his hat 51 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: into the ring to be a Ron Paul delegate in Tennessee, 52 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 1: but doesn't look like he was chosen. But he made 53 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: a lot of new friends through the Paul campaign. Admittedly, 54 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: there's a bit of a blank space in my research here. 55 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you exactly what path he took down 56 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: the road to political extremism between two thousand and two 57 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: and two thousand and seven. That part of the timeline 58 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: is pretty sparse. It's entirely possible that his descent into 59 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: USS liberty conspiracy theories brought him into contact with the 60 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: political fringe long before he got involved with the Paul 61 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: campaign in two thousand and seven, but that's the point 62 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: in time where he reappears in any record I can find. 63 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: By two thousand and eight, Merlin Miller was rubbing elbows 64 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: with some of the big names in American racism. That summer, 65 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: he was a speaker at the Council of Conservative Citizens 66 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: National Conference. The archived version of that racist group's website 67 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: shows that at some point all of that year's speeches 68 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: were uploaded, but the files haven't survived, and the attendee 69 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: who uploaded some of them to YouTube must not have 70 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: thought Merlin Miller's speech was very interesting, because it isn't there. 71 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: Other speakers at that event included Drew Lackey, the police 72 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: officer who was famously photographed fingerprinting Rosa Parks after her 73 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: arrest in Montgomery in nineteen fifty five, and he was 74 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: also the officer who booked Martin Luther King after his 75 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: arrest in nineteen fifty six. Lackey's speech, too, seems lost 76 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: to the sands of time, but according to a write 77 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: up on AlterNet, he talked about his book Bok called 78 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: Another View of the Civil Rights Movement, in which he 79 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: calls Rosa Parks a communist agitator and dismisses the entire 80 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: civil rights movement as a farce designed to intimidate and 81 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: demoralize the police. In America, Alabama State Senator Charles Bishop's 82 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: keynote speech was a rambling racist rant about Mohammed Obama 83 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: and Several of the other speakers listed on the website 84 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: are men who would go on to serve together on 85 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: the board of the American Third Position Party, Paul Frome, 86 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: Tom Sunich, and James Edwards. And a few months after that, 87 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: Merlin Miller packed a suitcase for another trip. 88 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 2: September second, two thousand and eight. You remember what you 89 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 2: were doing that day, September second, two thousand and eight. 90 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 3: Yes, up in Minneapolis. 91 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: Merlin Miller and another man who will come to these microphones, 92 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 2: William Daniel Johnson, the chairman of the American Free Party, 93 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,799 Speaker 2: and yours truly, all three of us were in the 94 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: Target Center in Minneapolis, Minnesota. 95 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: This one came as a bit of a surprise to me. 96 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: None of the write ups I could find about the 97 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: early days of the party led me to believe that 98 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: Merlin Miller had been involved with the group's actual founding, 99 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: let alone hanging out with its founders more than a 100 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: year before the group even existed. But there it is 101 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: in his own words. In May of twenty thirteen, he 102 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: appeared on an episode of the American Freedom Party's new podcast. 103 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: It was a project they'd launched that spring as part 104 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: of their rebranding after they changed the name from American 105 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: Third Position to American Freedom Party. And the man he's 106 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: talking to is Jamie Kelso, one of the party's founders. 107 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 1: Kelso is I know. I say this all the time. 108 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: He's the guy that's going to get his own episodes. 109 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: He is an incredibly odd man. Before he was on 110 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: the board of the American Third Position Party, he was 111 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: a member of National Alliance for years. In the early 112 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: two thousands, he was David Duke's live in personal assistant. 113 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: He was a moderator on Stormfront for a decade, and 114 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: when he was a much younger man, he was a 115 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: member of Scientology's Sea Org. And in two thousand and eight, 116 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: Jamie Kelso was traveling all over the country attending Ron 117 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: Paul campaign events because he recognized their value as a 118 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: recruitment pool for white nationalism. And I guess he wasn't 119 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: attending those events alone. Like I said, I can't find 120 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: much evidence that still exists online about the nature of 121 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: Merlin Miller's relationship with the movement during those early years, 122 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: but he was close enough to Jamie Kelso and William 123 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: Daniel Johnson by the fall of two thousand and eight 124 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: to be traveling with them. 125 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 3: Now. 126 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: Ron Paul did not become the president in two thousand obviously, 127 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: but Miller's involvement in the campaign had introduced him to 128 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: new friends and new possibilities. He'd failed to gain the 129 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: support of Tennessee Republicans to become a primary delegate, just 130 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: like he'd failed to make films in Hollywood. This system 131 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: seemed designed to prevent white men with traditional values from 132 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: succeeding in anything, and in that spirit, Merlin Miller founded 133 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: a new film production company in two thousand and nine. 134 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: He'd produced his first film, A Place to Grow, in 135 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five through his company Ozark Pictures. His second film, Jericho, 136 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: premiered in two thousand and one through his company Black 137 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: Knight Productions, But his new vision was going to require 138 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: a new production company, Americana Pictures, a film company dedicated 139 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: to making movies that promote quote, traditional American ideals. He 140 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: announced the new venture in an essay on The Occidental Observer, 141 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: a far right publication edited by Kevin mac donald, another 142 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: future founding member of the American Third Position Party. In 143 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: the essay, Miller asks where are the good stories? Where 144 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: have our heroes gone? Writing quote At one time, we 145 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: could discern right from wrong because stories promoted truth, justice, 146 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: and liberty. The world felt good when they ended happily, 147 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: or inspired us to overcome when they did not. They 148 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: made us want to be better people and live in 149 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: a better world, a world built by our European American brethren. 150 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: But after working in Hollywood, he came to realize that 151 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: Hollywood was in the business of killing those heroes, of 152 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: killing that American dream and propagandizing for a new world order. 153 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: Hollywood doesn't represent traditional Americans. Instead, it quote seeks to 154 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: destroy our European American heritage and our Christian based traditional values, 155 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: place them with values that debase these traditional values and 156 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: elevate minorities as paragons of virtue and wisdom. He complains 157 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: that despite graduating from a prestigious film school program, the 158 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: industry had no place for people like him, people with 159 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: traditional values who refused to denigrate Christianity and participate in 160 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 1: the Jewish controlled media. Americana Pictures could be an alternative 161 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: to Hollywood, making pro white movies for pro wide audiences, 162 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: developing their own talent by running screenwriting workshops. When Americana 163 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: Pictures launched in two thousand and nine, Miller had two 164 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: projects in mind, that unfunded film about the USS liberty 165 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: that he'd been working on for years, and one that 166 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: he tentatively titled The Liberator. The Liberator was a retelling 167 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: of the story of Arminius, the Germanic chieftain who commanded 168 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: a coalition of forces against the Romans at the Battle 169 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: of tutors Forrest in nine AD. As part of an 170 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: effort to drum up financial support for the films, Miller 171 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: published a piece in The Barnes Review later that same year. 172 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: I know I'm always telling you about this seemingly infinite 173 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: number of conspiracy theory blogs and Nazi newsletters and racist magazines, 174 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 1: and they all probably run together. But the Barnes Review 175 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: has been described by the Southern Poverty Law Center as 176 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: one of the most virulent anti Semitic organizations around, and 177 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: most issues feature several articles devoted to Holocaust denial. I mean, 178 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: you'd think you'd run out of ways to talk about it, 179 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: but they haven't. This particular issue included the text of 180 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: a speech made by Hitler in nineteen forty one, two 181 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: articles about Hitler, an interview with the founder of a 182 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: Greek fascist party, and an essay by Ingrid Zundel, wife 183 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 1: of famous Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel. Miller's piece was about 184 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: the historical figure of our Minius, and there was just 185 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: a little box of text on the side of one 186 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: page announcing that he would be making a film to 187 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: tell this incredible story. Okay, I'll admit I don't ever 188 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: think about the Roman Empire. That's just never on my mind. 189 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: I don't know the story of Arminius. I don't have 190 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: the tiniest bit of interest in knowing more about how 191 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: Publius Quintilius Verus committed suicide out of shame at having 192 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: lost three Roman legions at the Battle of Tuteburg Forest. 193 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you if Merlin Miller's retelling of those 194 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: events is historically accurate. Maybe he's a Roman history buff. 195 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I do think it's worth considering 196 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: that his interest in the story of Arminius might be 197 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 1: less about a love of two thousand year old Roman 198 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: history and more about an interest in some slightly more 199 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: recent history. Arminius has long been a symbol of German 200 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 1: national identity and German nationalism. Two plays written in the 201 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: nineteenth century dramatizing the events of the Battle of Tuderberg Forest, confusingly, 202 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: both called the Hermannschlacht, were so wildly popular in Germany 203 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties and forties that it was shameful 204 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: and scandalous to put them on stage for decades after 205 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 1: the war. In January of nineteen thirty three, just weeks 206 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: before Hitler was appointed Chancellor, a party official gave him 207 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: a gift, an illustrated copy of The Hermannschlacht. Hitler not 208 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 1: only loved the gift, but he responded, that's the idea 209 00:13:55,720 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: a second Battle of Tudeberg Forest. That same week, Hitler 210 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: gave a speech comparing himself to Arminius, and when the 211 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: text of that speech was published at a Nazi Party newspaper. 212 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: It was accompanied by a picture of a statue of 213 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: Arminius surrounded by swastikas. Nazi Party election posters in nineteen 214 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: thirty three feature this imagery prominently, along with slogans like 215 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: Machtrei dos Hermannsland free Hermann's country. Hermann is the German 216 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: variation of Arminius. I picked up a copy of Arminius 217 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: the Liberator, Myth and Ideology, a book by Martin Winkler, 218 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: a classics professor at George Mason University, to get a 219 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: better idea of where Arminius lives in the nationalist imagination. 220 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: It's four hundred pages long. I didn't have time to 221 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: do more than skim it, admittedly, but it seems pretty 222 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: clear the popularity of this story was at an all 223 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: time high when it was rep purist in Nazi propaganda 224 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirties Germany. I found what I needed in 225 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: the book, but as I was flipping to the back 226 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: to see if the last chapter was a convenient summary, 227 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: which is often the case in academic texts, I found 228 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: something else. 229 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 4: Entirely. 230 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: The final chapter of Winkler's book is not a summary. 231 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: It's called arminious and white supremacy, and it's about this. 232 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: It's about this article by Merlin Miller. There's a picture 233 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: of the front cover of this two thousand and nine 234 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: issue of The Barnes Review. Winkler writes of Miller's article, quote, 235 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: Miller explicitly but unconvincingly rejects propagandizing by means of falsehood, 236 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: But he also implies that Miller himself doesn't seem to 237 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: realize that he's building his own story on a foundation 238 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: of propagandized false hoods. In comparing Miller's use of the 239 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: story to that Nazi propaganda, Winkler writes, quote, the similarities 240 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: are astonishing or rather predictable. The only difference is that 241 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: Nazis saw Jews as the root of all their evils, 242 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: while Miller is obsessed with non white and racially mixed globalism. 243 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: To the Nazis, as to Miller, Arminius had laid the 244 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: foundation of a superior West. Later generations, especially contemporary ones, 245 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: have lost this heritage and become victims of decadence and 246 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: domination by others. That spring two thousand and nine issue 247 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: of The Barnes Review is dedicated almost entirely to Arminius. 248 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: It's not just Merlin Miller's article. Immediately following Miller's piece 249 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: is the one by Ingrid Zundel. In two thousand and nine, 250 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: her husband, Ernst Zundel was still in a German prison. 251 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: He'd been convicted of incitement of racial hatred, and she 252 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: writes that during his imprisonment, she felt moved to rekindle 253 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: the spiritual flame by reviving the story of Arminius, and 254 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: her company, Soaring Eagles Studios, published a book about Arminius 255 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: that had come out that year, and it wasn't just 256 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: a book project. I didn't find an actual copy of 257 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: this book, but I found one for sale on eBay, 258 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: and I saw a picture of the cover, and the 259 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: cover bears a picture of that Arminia statue, the same 260 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: one featured in Nazi propaganda posters in nineteen thirty three. 261 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: But across Arminius's chest there's text that reads soon to 262 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: be a major motion picture. Ingrid Zundel wrote in that 263 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: Barnes Review article that she'd been having intense meetings with 264 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: Merlin Miller and they were collaborating on the film adaptation 265 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: of the book. In December two thousand and nine, he 266 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: even scouted locations. The pair hoped to film in Herman, Missouri, 267 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: a small town settled by German immigrants and named after Arminius. 268 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: Locals and Herman were horrified to learn that the independent 269 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: filmmaker wandering around town was a member of the Council 270 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: of Conservative Citizens, and the local newspaper printed a quote 271 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: from Miller about his opposition to interracial marriage. They didn't 272 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: really need to worry, though. The movie never got made. 273 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: Americana Pictures never made any movies at all. Both of 274 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: the projects he'd hoped to produce, False Flag and The 275 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 1: Liberator were someone else's idea. They were someone else's obsession. 276 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: He wasn't a subject matter expert on the USS liberty, 277 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: he didn't have any meaningful connection to Arminius as a 278 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: symbol of German nationalism. But he presented himself in these 279 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: circles as someone who was going to break the system 280 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 1: and make propaganda films for the white supremacist movement. And 281 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: I think he really wanted to. He wanted to make movies. 282 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: It had been his dream since childhood. It just never 283 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 1: came together. But what I've been trying to get to 284 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: all this time was his run for president. On January third, 285 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: twenty twelve, he posted a candidate statement on Merlin Miller 286 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: twenty twelve dot com. It's nothing special. He's fighting back 287 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 1: against the new World Order and the global elites. He's 288 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: very concerned about the ongoing demographic assault against traditional America, 289 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 1: which is just a few extra words for white genocide. 290 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: He's outraged that patriots are being silenced by political correctness, 291 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: et cetera. At the bottom of the statement, he links 292 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: to the party's website, but only after dropping a link 293 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 1: to the site for Americana Pictures. A week later, the 294 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: party's chairman, William Daniel Johnson, issued the party's official press relief. 295 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: His language is more explicit, writing the American Third Position 296 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: Party believes the time has come for a strong political 297 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: party that explicitly advocates for the interests of white Americans. 298 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 1: And posts started popping up on stormfront, but it wasn't 299 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 1: really a hot topic. Most of the people posting enthusiastically 300 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: about his candidacy on those stormfront threads are people I 301 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: can identify as party members, like a thread from Harry Bertram, 302 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: the party's frequent candidate in West Virginia, offering to pay 303 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: Stormfront members a dollar per name if they'll go out 304 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: and collect signatures for the campaign. In February of twenty twelve, 305 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: a month into the campaign's existence online, the party filed 306 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: paperwork with the Federal Election Commission, or at least they 307 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: tried to. They filed a statement of organization for a 308 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 1: committee called Merlin Miller for President twenty twelve, but they 309 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: failed to fill out the part of the form where 310 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: you say who the candidate is and on the page 311 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: where you check a box to indicate whether the committee 312 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: is a candidate committee or a party committee. They checked both. 313 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 1: The FEC responded with aid request for additional information, and 314 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: they tried again. It wasn't until April that they filed 315 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,719 Speaker 1: forms to register the party itself with the FEC, and 316 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: they didn't actually file a statement of candidacy for Miller 317 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: until July. It's a bit of a mess. Almost everything 318 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: they've ever filed is quickly followed by a reply from 319 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: the FEC that they've done it wrong and they only 320 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: ever raised eighty seven hundred dollars. As the party is 321 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: fumbling with the paperwork, behind the scenes, Merlin Miller is 322 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: out there as the face of the party. The American 323 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: third position party is running for president. In every campaign 324 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: interview I listened to, he talks about himself a lot. 325 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: That's normal for a candidate, right, I mean, who is 326 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 1: this guy? Why should I vote for him? But someone 327 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: should have sat him down and broken the news that 328 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: making two independent films over a decade ago and being 329 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 1: really mad about the Federal Reserve aren't enough. And it's 330 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: just confusing that you keep rambling on about how you 331 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: knew David Petraeus in college, but he does it every time. 332 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: Most of these interviews are with friendly outlets, white nationalist 333 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: fringe podcasts and conspiracy theorists who make Alex Jones look 334 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 1: like a level headed and professional broadcaster, so he can 335 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: regurgitate the talking points from the website without really getting cornered. 336 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: For the most part, no one's asking him hard questions. 337 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: But in one interview in February, someone does ask a 338 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: question that I'd actually spend hours searching for an answer 339 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: to on the party's website. Why third position? 340 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 5: Tell us a little bit about the third position? You know, 341 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 5: I think some people might be a little confused by 342 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 5: that term. I know when I hear third position, I 343 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 5: almost think third way or takes me back to the 344 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 5: nineteen thirties or twenties or something. But I don't know. 345 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 5: I mean, why did you choose that name? And what 346 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 5: are you trying to evoke by calling yourself a third position? 347 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: That's Richard Spencer. By twenty twelve, he was already the 348 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: director of the National Policy Institute, and he was the 349 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: editor of his Alternative Right dot com website, having coined 350 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: the term alright a few years earlier, at least by 351 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: his account, and for all the evil that man has 352 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: visited upon this world and my hometown in particular, he's 353 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: not stupid. I mean, he's not the brilliant philosopher he 354 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: believes himself to be, don't get me wrong, But he's 355 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: read some books. He is at least conversant in the 356 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: political theory he's working with. This is a question with 357 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: an actual answer, And Merlin Miller didn't know that. 358 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 3: You know, actually the founding members of Bill Johnson William Johnson, 359 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 3: an LA attorney, as the chairman of the American Third 360 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 3: Position Party, and I believe it was a bill that 361 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 3: came up with the name American Third Position, and a 362 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 3: year and a half, two years ago, I actually recommended 363 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 3: he used the Americana Party because I didn't actually understand 364 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 3: his reasoning for the American third at that time. I've 365 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 3: since grown not only accustomed to it, but I do 366 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,439 Speaker 3: like it because I see the Republican and the Democratic 367 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 3: parties as really being two heads of the same monster. 368 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 3: And we really don't have a voice party that represents 369 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 3: the interests of the American people anymore. 370 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: Oh, dear, no, No, that wasn't the end, Sir Richard 371 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: Spencer was looking for. It wasn't the answer I was 372 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: looking for. Third position isn't just some generic term for 373 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: third party. It doesn't mean the party is offering itself 374 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: up just generally is some kind of third option. He 375 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: seems to think that third position just means not Republican, 376 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: not Democrat, but a secret third thing. I guess, come 377 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: to think of it, you know, in the spirit of 378 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 1: the secret third thing meme kind of does the secret 379 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: third thing? Here is fascism. Here's another member of the 380 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: party offering his definition. 381 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 4: Third positionism is not centrism. Third positionists understand the false 382 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 4: dialectic that liberal capitalist regimes established to split the electorate 383 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 4: and maintain their all holigarchic rule through fiscal power. This 384 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 4: capitalist dialectic separates nationalism from socialism, ensuring that two positions 385 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 4: are never united under one political party. 386 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: Now, I think he probably thinks he sounds very clever here, 387 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure he actually comprehends the words he's using. 388 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: But it is closer, He's a little closer. That's Nathan 389 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: Dimigo speaking at the party's national convention earlier this year. 390 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: And if you're familiar with Nathan Dimigo's name, you may 391 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: remember him as the founder of Identity Europa, the neo 392 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: Nazi organization that started popping up on college campuses and 393 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: was marching here in Charlottesville in their white polo shirts 394 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen. But he actually has a very long 395 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: history with the American Third Position Party. But that's something 396 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,880 Speaker 1: we'll get to itother day. The problem that Nathan Dimigo 397 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: and Merlin Miller and others in the party are running 398 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: into when they try to define third positionism is that 399 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: most people aren't using it sincerely. I mean, maybe they 400 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: don't actually know what it means at all, like Merlin Miller, 401 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: or they're just using it as a branding strategy because 402 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: it sounds more intellectual and more rooted in history and 403 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: tradition and less crude than saying I'm an ultra nationalist 404 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: neo fascist. And you'll also see a lot of disingenuous 405 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 1: descriptions of the third position as being a sort of 406 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: ideological melding of both left wing and right wing ideas. 407 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: It's not a left or right wing ideology. It combines 408 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: a bit of both. Like Merlin Miller was saying, it's 409 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: not aligned with either of the two traditional polls. It's 410 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: not democrat or republican. It's neither left nor right. But 411 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: that's a lie. It is. I'm sorry it is, and 412 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: I think most people who say that know it. I'm 413 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: no political theorist, but advocating for policies that benefit the 414 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: working class, but only the white working class, because everyone 415 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: else is dead, deported, disenfranchised, or enslaved. That's not a 416 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: left wing policy idea. The anti capitalism and anti imperialism 417 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: of a third positionist isn't inherently left wing. It's in 418 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: service of nationalism. The socialism in national socialism wasn't sincere, 419 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: and it wasn't for everyone. When these people say that 420 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: they aren't left or right, they mean they're so far 421 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: right you can't see them on the spectrum anymore. They're fascists. 422 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: American fascists like Tom Metzger in the eighties and Matthew 423 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: Heinbach in the twenty tens both pushed ideas that you 424 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: could describe as third positionist, though I believe Heinbach specifically 425 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: called himself a Strostrist, which I guess is technically a 426 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: slightly separate thing. It's sometimes described as a precursor to 427 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,959 Speaker 1: third positionism, but they're used so interchangeably by guys who 428 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: are trying to bring an air of intellectualism to their 429 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: ethno state manifestos that honestly, I don't think it matters. 430 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: Don't email me about it. At the nineteen eighty seven 431 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: Aryan World Congress, Tom Metzger, the leader of White Arian Resistance, 432 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: was talking about third positionism when he said this quote. 433 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: War is dedicated to the white working people, the farmers, 434 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: the white poor. This is a working class movement. Our 435 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: problem is with monopoly capitalism. The Jews first went with 436 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: capitalism and then created their Marxist game. You go for 437 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: the throat of the capitalist. You must go for the 438 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: throat of the corporates. You take the game away from 439 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: the left. It's our game. We're not going to fight 440 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: your whore wars anymore. We've got one war, and that's 441 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: right here, the same war the essay fought in Germany, 442 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: right here in the streets of America. There's plenty to 443 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: be written on the actual historical origin of the term. 444 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: In post war Europe. There are third positionist fascist nationalist 445 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: groups in Italy, the UK, Germany, and France, and it's 446 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: a little bit different everywhere you go. For the most part, 447 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: it's branding. I think if you had to trace an 448 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: ideological lineage, the American Third Position is most closely connected 449 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: to the British fascist group International Third Position. That group 450 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: was founded by Nick Griffin after he split with National Affront, 451 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: though he eventually left Third Position two had joined the 452 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: British National Party, but in the early days of the 453 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: American Third Position Party, Nick Griffin was on their conference calls. 454 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: When Merlin Miller was asked about the party's name again 455 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: in an interview with Russian Tabloid a week before the election, 456 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 1: he said they were thinking of changing it as soon 457 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: as the election was over, and that did end up happening. 458 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: They rebranded as the American Freedom Party just a few 459 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: months later. All that to say, Merlin Miller is hardly 460 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: some innocent rube who got tricked into joining a Nazi party. 461 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: He knew what he was doing. He hung around with 462 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: these people for years before he put his name on 463 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: that paperwork. He's willing to say that he's a nationalist, 464 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: and he openly advocates for all of the race based 465 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: nationalist policies that would make someone a white nationalist, but 466 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: he said that he doesn't care for the label because 467 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: it has too much baggage. I'm not saying he doesn't 468 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: know what he's advocating for. He does, but I do 469 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: think that he did not know that third position was 470 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: an actual political ideology and not just a fun name. 471 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: I mean, he wanted to call the party the Americana Party, 472 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: the same name he gave his pro white film company, 473 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: and I think that tells us something too, that one 474 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: little comment he thought the party should have the same 475 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: name as his film company. He links to his film 476 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: company website. On his official campaign materials, he mentions that 477 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: he's looking for funding for his movie False Flag. In 478 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: every interview. In September of twenty twelve, when he was 479 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: in the home stretch of his presidential campaign, he spent 480 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: a week in Tehran trying to pitch the movie to 481 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: Iranian investors. In a segment on Iranian TV that week, 482 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: he spent more time talking about the movie than the 483 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:52,239 Speaker 1: party he wanted to sell the movie. This was a 484 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: convenient press junket. That's the vibe I get anyway. I 485 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: don't know, n surprised he did not win. He only 486 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: made it onto the ballot as the American third position 487 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: party candidate in Colorado and New Jersey, but he appeared 488 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: on ballots in Tennessee as an independent candidate. He also 489 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: got a handful of write in votes in Maryland and 490 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: New York. All told, Merlin Miller was the preferred presidential 491 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: candidate of two thousand, seven hundred and one people. That's 492 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: zero point zero percent of the vote. The FEC only 493 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: calculates it to one decimal place. A month after the election, 494 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: Merlin Miller was invited to speak to a student group 495 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: at a university campus in Maryland. Matthew Heinbach was a 496 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: senior at Towson University and he'd recently formed a white 497 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: student union. It wasn't his first foreign into white nationalism, 498 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: and I wish it had been his last. He was 499 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: already a member of the American Third Position Party, and 500 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: he would go on to and lead the Traditionalist Worker Party, 501 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 1: perhaps following in this group's footsteps by actually registering his 502 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: Nazi group with the Federal Election Commission. You can look 503 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: at committee filings on the FEC's website to show that 504 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: they expensed to the party the helmets that they wore 505 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: to the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville. But again 506 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:29,240 Speaker 1: a story for another day. But after all this, Merlin 507 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,720 Speaker 1: Miller sort of drifted away from this now rebranded American 508 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: Freedom Party. He appeared on an episode of the party's 509 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: official podcast in May of twenty thirteen. When the party 510 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: held a conference in July, I don't think he was there. 511 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: His absence wasn't specifically noted, but I found video of 512 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: quite a few of the speeches, and not only was 513 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 1: he not one of them, but I was kind of 514 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,720 Speaker 1: surprised that the speeches didn't really talk about the campaign. 515 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: Even a failed campaign is something to talk about, you know, 516 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: A good leader would praise members of the organization for 517 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: their hard work and a tough situation, talk about lessons 518 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: learned and what they'll do differently next time. Appreciate the 519 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: sacrifice made by your candidate something I don't know. It 520 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: struck me as odd, but maybe I'm reading too much 521 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: into it. By twenty fourteen, Merlin Miller had officially parted 522 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: ways with the American Freedom Party. He formed his own party, 523 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: calling it the American Eagle Party. There's no public animosity here. 524 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: In a few speeches during this time period, Miller mentions 525 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: in passing that he left his old party, which he 526 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: doesn't usually name, because their focus was too narrow. In 527 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 1: one video, American Freedom Party chairman William Johnson says pretty 528 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: plainly that his party speaks explicitly, and Miller wanted to 529 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: be more implicit about the same ideas. So it's not 530 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,800 Speaker 1: an ideological shift. He's just using a different communication style. 531 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: But the American Eagle Party was not long for this world. 532 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: It never ran a candidate, and the only money had 533 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: ever raised came in the form of a couple of 534 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: donations from friends. An overwhelming majority of the funds raised 535 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: by the group in its less than two years of 536 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 1: existence was from one man, an attorney in Baltimore named 537 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: Glenn Keith Allen. In the summer of twenty sixteen, as 538 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: he's involved in Miller's American Eagle Party and making donations. 539 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,800 Speaker 1: The Southern Poverty Law Center wrote an article about Glen Allen. 540 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: He'd been in the movement for years, but he'd never 541 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: been publicly identified before. The SBLC had obtained internal accounting 542 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,439 Speaker 1: records from the neo Nazi organization National Alliance, and those 543 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: documents included receipts showing that Glenn Allen had been a 544 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: dues pay member for years. At the time they published 545 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: the article, Allen was working as an attorney for the 546 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: Baltimore Police Department, a job he quickly lost. And this 547 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 1: is actually when I first encountered Merlin Miller. It wasn't 548 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: in the context of the American Third Position Party or 549 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: the American Freedom Party or the American Eagle Party. I 550 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: saw Merlin Miller's name for the first time years ago 551 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:33,280 Speaker 1: while I was putting together notes about Glenn Allen. Merlin 552 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: Miller is on the board of directors at a nonprofit 553 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: Allan founded in twenty eighteen with the stated purpose of 554 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: providing legal assistance to victims of the thought Police. His words, 555 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:49,800 Speaker 1: not mine. As an attorney, Glenn Allen has bravely defended 556 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 1: the free speech rights of clients like Warren Baylaw, the 557 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: Nazi who tried to sue the City of Charlottesville for 558 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: failing to roll out the red carpet for his Nazi rally, 559 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: members of Patriot Front who were sued for defacing a 560 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: mural of black Tennis legend Arthur Ashe members of the 561 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: Goham Defense League, and he wrote amicus briefs for members 562 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 1: of the Rise Above movement. His foundation has also been 563 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,400 Speaker 1: used to solicit donations for legal defense in cases they 564 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,240 Speaker 1: didn't officially take on, like the criminal prosecution of Patriot 565 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: Front leader Thomas Rousseau here in Albmarole County, Virginia last year. 566 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,879 Speaker 1: Allan is currently representing Nathan Dimigo in his bankruptcy court 567 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: battle to discharge the debt from a civil court judgment, 568 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,120 Speaker 1: a lawsuit filed against him as an organizer of the 569 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: deadly Unite the Right rally. And I actually mentioned Glenn 570 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: Allen briefly last week. He's co counsel on William Daniel 571 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 1: Johnson's dried seaweed tariff case. I am on the edge 572 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: of my seat waiting for a ruling on that one. 573 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: Merlin Miller is to this day on the board of 574 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: directors at Allen's Foundation, where his bio describes him as 575 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 1: a filmmaker. He never did make any more movies, but 576 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,359 Speaker 1: according to his personal website, he still hopes to make 577 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: False Flag of Reality someday. Merlin Miller ran for president 578 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: on the ticket of a Nazi party in twenty twelve, 579 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 1: but his heart was never really in it. I don't think. 580 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 1: I think he just wanted to get on TV and 581 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 1: talk about how the Jewish controlled media wouldn't let him 582 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 1: make his movies. The American Freedom Party, though, they moved 583 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 1: on too. When I started researching these episodes, all the 584 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: articles about the group were old. It looked like they 585 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,399 Speaker 1: were more or less defunct, but I just wasn't looking 586 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,759 Speaker 1: in the right places. Admittedly, I wasted a lot of 587 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: time this week reading about Arminius, so I didn't get 588 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 1: as far into the story as I'd intended. But what 589 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,800 Speaker 1: I actually spent most of this week doing was listening 590 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,840 Speaker 1: to interviews with the new generation of the party's leadership. 591 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 1: In March of this year, the American Freedom Party recommitted. 592 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: They gathered at the castle in West Virginia owned by 593 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: white nationalists publisher Peter Brimlaw and they're talking about making 594 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: a real comeback. 595 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 5: Weed. 596 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: Little Guys is a production of Polso Media and iHeart Radio. 597 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: It's researched, written and recorded by me, Molly Conger. Our 598 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,359 Speaker 1: executive producers are Sophie Litcherman and Robert Evans. The show 599 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: is edited by the wildly talented Bory Gaigan. That theme 600 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 1: music was composed by Brad Dickard. You can email me 601 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,280 Speaker 1: at Riddula Guys Podcast at gmail dot com. I would 602 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: definitely read it by I probably won't answer, it's nothing personal. 603 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: You can exchange conspiracy theories about the show with other 604 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: listeners on the Red Lily Guy sub reddit. Just don't 605 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:03,959 Speaker 1: post anything that's gonna make you on my ru Little 606 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: Guys h