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Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody. I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to politics.

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Speaker 1: And I heard podcasts and unbothered production. Time to get spolitical.

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Speaker 1: Bryce Harper just lived out of fantasy that a lot

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Speaker 1: of Americans have. And now I'm not talking about having

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars and being a professional athlete at the

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Speaker 1: highest level. This man actually cussed out his boss from

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Speaker 1: ESPN Baseball insider Jeff Passon Philadelphia Philly star Bryce Harper

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Speaker 1: std Noson knows Rob Manford during a meeting between the

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Speaker 1: Major League Baseball Commissioner and the team last week, telling

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Speaker 1: him to quote, get the fuck out of our clubhouse.

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Speaker 1: If Manford wanted to talk about the potential implementation of

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Speaker 1: a salary cap, well damn.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: This conversation is very noteworthy because it is definitely foreshadowing

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Speaker 1: the fight that's expected to take place between Major League

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Speaker 1: Baseball owners and players next December, when their collective bargaining

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Speaker 1: agreement expires. Major League Baseball is the only North American

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Speaker 1: sport that doesn't have a salary cap, and in recent years,

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Speaker 1: Manford has been going around to various ball clubs trying

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Speaker 1: to sell the players that for the growth of the

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Speaker 1: game and their own salaries. They need a salary cap.

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Speaker 1: Now Madford might have had an easier time trying to

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Speaker 1: sell ketchup popsicles to a man in white gloves, because

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Speaker 1: history has shown that when it comes to instituting a

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Speaker 1: salary cap, the players are willing to take it to

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Speaker 1: the mat.

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Speaker 2: Remember what happened in nineteen ninety four.

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Speaker 3: The season was officially canceled with a press release issued

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Speaker 3: by Major League Baseball, supported by the signatures of every

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Speaker 3: team but two, the Baltimore Orioles and the Cincinnati read

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Speaker 3: later as a fitting symbol of how far apart the

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Speaker 3: players and owners are. But the Oligan Donald Deer held

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Speaker 3: news conferences in two separate city each reminding us of

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Speaker 3: the reason there will be no World Series the salary cap.

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Speaker 4: Like a lot of things in life, you anticipate something

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Speaker 4: and fear that it's coming, hope.

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Speaker 5: That it isn't, and when the day just here, there's

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Speaker 5: an incredible amount of sadness. There appeared to be no urgency,

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Speaker 5: no desire to go to any extraordinary lengths to find

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Speaker 5: an agreement, every reason to believe, given the calmness with

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Speaker 5: which this announcement was preceded, that this was something the

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Speaker 5: owners had long since weeks if not months ago, come

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Speaker 5: to accept as necessary.

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Speaker 2: And then there was twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 5: You're like baseball's collective bargaining has expired and the owners

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Speaker 5: have locked out of the players until the new deal

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Speaker 5: has worked out.

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Speaker 2: Marshall Harris joins us, and it's been months in the

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Speaker 2: making and it could take months to result it.

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Speaker 4: Everyone just needs to buckle in.

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Speaker 6: It's baseball's first work stoppage in twenty six years, the

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Speaker 6: owners locking out players to avoid another strike, which the

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Speaker 6: sport would be susceptible to without a new CBA. Now,

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Speaker 6: the players union wants to expand salary arbitration earlier free

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Speaker 6: agency for its players. Rob Manfred said the lockout is

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Speaker 6: MLB's only tool to speed up the negotiations.

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Speaker 4: I think we're in a process.

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Speaker 2: I'm prepared to continue that process, and I'm optimistic that

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Speaker 2: we're going to get a deal.

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Speaker 1: The twenty twenty one lockout resulted in a ninety nine

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Speaker 1: day work stoppage, the nice such stoppage in baseball's history.

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Speaker 1: When the current CBA expires, many expect it will lead

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Speaker 1: to another lockout, including Major League Baseball Players Union Executive

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Speaker 1: director Tony Clark, who said in the spring, unless I

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Speaker 1: am mistaken, the league has come out and said there's

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Speaker 1: going to be a work stoppage. So I don't think

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Speaker 1: I'm speaking out of school in that regard. Sounds like

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Speaker 1: a tenth works stoleage is on the horizon. But here's

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Speaker 1: the real question. Does baseball indeed need a salary cap

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Speaker 1: if they want to thrive? Well, it depends on who

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Speaker 1: you ask. If you ask Manfred, of course the answer

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Speaker 1: is yes. Mafford has told the players that their salaries

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Speaker 1: would be two billion dollars higher if they would have

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Speaker 1: agreed to a fifty to fifty revenue share and a

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Speaker 1: salary cap twenty years ago. Mafford also claimed that during

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Speaker 1: that span, baseball player salaries have grown the slowest among

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Speaker 1: the four major professional sports. Now, even though we've recently

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Speaker 1: seen Juan Soto sign a seven hundred and sixty five

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Speaker 1: million dollar deal and Sho hal Tani signed a seven

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Speaker 1: hundred million dollar contract, Madford has told players that ten

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Speaker 1: percent of the players earned seventy two percent of the money.

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Speaker 1: In that ten percent class is Bryce Harper, who is

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Speaker 1: on a thirteen year, three hundred and thirty million dollar deal. Now,

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Speaker 1: if there is anything I've learned from observing labor strife

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Speaker 1: between players and owners, is that the numbers usually floated

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Speaker 1: by the league, let's just say, you often have to

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Speaker 1: take them with a grain of salt, and it's important

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Speaker 1: to recognize what their strategy is. Now in labor negotiations,

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Speaker 1: it's not uncommon for players to undermine themselves, and certainly

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Speaker 1: Manford and other baseball owners notice that. When the players

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Speaker 1: agreed to the new CBA in twenty twenty two, the

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Speaker 1: players Union's eight member executive subcommittee voted against the current CBA,

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Speaker 1: but the majority of the player representatives voted to accept

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Speaker 1: the deal. Now, that probably gave man For some hope

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Speaker 1: that there are at least some players who might be

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Speaker 1: willing to abandon the union's historical position of being against

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Speaker 1: a salary cap. But here's the thing I'm not being

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Speaker 1: on taking it easy on billionaires. The owners are looking

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Speaker 1: at these escalating player salaries and even if it's just

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Speaker 1: among the ten percent, they are clutching their pocketbooks.

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Speaker 2: Now. They claim it's.

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Speaker 1: About establishing competitive balance, but there have been nine different

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Speaker 1: World Series winners in the last decade. They haven't had

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Speaker 1: a repeat champions since the Yankees in the late nineteen

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Speaker 1: nineties early two thousands. To argument for a cap always

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Speaker 1: centers around small market teams. How are they supposed to

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Speaker 1: compete with the bottomless checkbooks of the New York Yankees

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Speaker 1: and the Los Angeles Dodgers. Well, last year, my Detroit Tigers,

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Speaker 1: they made it to the Divisional round of the playoffs,

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Speaker 1: even though Ohio State's football team had a higher.

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Speaker 2: Pay role than they did.

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Speaker 1: Now, I would argue that not having a cap gives

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Speaker 1: small market teams a better chance to compete. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if the money is all relative, if it's all basically equal,

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Speaker 1: then a player is definitely going to pick the hippos

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Speaker 1: city and the biggest media market. If this is just

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Speaker 1: a matter of spending, then suddenly some teams will be

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Speaker 1: in the mix that weren't before because the highest bidder wins.

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Speaker 1: Now we've seen this at the college level. It's all

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Speaker 1: about whether or not you can present the best nil pack.

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Speaker 1: That's how Ruggers Basketball wound up with two top five

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Speaker 1: draft picks on the same team, and the talent becomes

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Speaker 1: much more widespread. It's not the fault of the players

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Speaker 1: that some own owners in smaller markets would rather make

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Speaker 1: a profit over building a championship.

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Speaker 2: That's an issue of mentality, not of money.

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Speaker 1: Just this history has taught us that baseball players will

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Speaker 1: fight tooth and nail against the cap. History has also

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Speaker 1: shown us that when you concede to owners, you never

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Speaker 1: regain that leverage. I'm Jamel Hill, and I approved this message.

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Speaker 1: Today's podcast is really special to me because I get

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Speaker 1: to be in conversation with one of my absolute favorite people.

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Speaker 2: He is an author and an educator who runs a

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Speaker 2: transformational training academy in my hometown of Detroit that has

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Speaker 2: drawn widespread praise and was the subject of an ESPN

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Speaker 2: thirty for thirty documentary.

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Speaker 1: Now he works specifically with underserved and at risk boys,

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Speaker 1: most of whom are black. He uses martial arts to

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Speaker 1: teach them healthy emotional habits, leadership, emotional regulation, and discipline.

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Speaker 2: He has gone viral many, many, many.

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Speaker 1: Times because of how he relates to these boys and

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Speaker 1: for the con sations he's fostered among men, men who

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Speaker 1: are broken, who are struggling to find emotional balance and release.

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Speaker 1: Our conversation today is among the most powerful you will hear,

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Speaker 1: especially for those boys and men who are struggling to

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Speaker 1: be heard and to break free from what my guest

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Speaker 1: refers to as emotional incarceration. Coming up next on politics,

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Speaker 1: Jason Wilson. Jason, I'm going to start the podcast with

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Speaker 1: the question I ask every yes that appears on politics,

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Speaker 1: and given how you have been able to create a

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Speaker 1: pathway or a presence in the sports space, it feels

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Speaker 1: even more perfect for you.

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Speaker 2: A name, a athlete or a moment that made you

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Speaker 2: love sports.

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Speaker 4: Wow, so many athletes that I admire. Wow, that's a

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Speaker 4: good question. I would have to say, it's a toss.

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Speaker 4: So can I say too, it has you one? It's

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Speaker 4: a tosso between geez, I would say Barry, Well, no,

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Speaker 4: I have to go back. Lynn Swan was my favorite

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Speaker 4: wide receiver the entire Pittsburgh still his team in the seventies.

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Speaker 4: I you know, I was a big fan of even

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Speaker 4: my number was number eighty eight Lynn Swine And then

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Speaker 4: of course the great Barry Sanders was an inspiration to

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Speaker 4: me as well. And of course growing up in the

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Speaker 4: city of Detroit and named Jalen and Chris Weber and others.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, it's so many, a lot of memories You've triggered,

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Speaker 4: and I can't forget Michael Jordan's you know, the first

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Speaker 4: one that really made you know, like had his own

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Speaker 4: gym shoe and the jogging suits and everything. So definitely

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Speaker 4: the Pittsburgh still is of the seventies, Barry Sanders the

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Speaker 4: greatest running back ever, and Michael Jordan. Of course, just

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Speaker 4: being around Detroit athletes. It's just, uh, that's what triggered

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Speaker 4: me I love for sports.

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Speaker 1: Now, a lot of athletes do hold you in high

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Speaker 1: regard and been able to kind of get into that space.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it feels like something that it was

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Speaker 1: kind of organic. Now for those who are not familiar,

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Speaker 1: you have a thirty for thirty documentary on the Cave

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Speaker 1: of Abdulam that is tremendous, by the way, so I

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Speaker 1: highly encourage everybody out there to watch it. I think

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Speaker 1: it's probably available on ESPN Plus, maybe even Netflix, but

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Speaker 1: I think ESPN Plus for sure. You know, I saw

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Speaker 1: the interview that you did on All the Smoke, and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you got a lot of feedback from that.

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Speaker 1: You of course were sitting with two friends of mine,

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Speaker 1: Matt Barnes and Steven Jackson, and that was really such

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Speaker 1: a transformational conversation. Now that you have been in this

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Speaker 1: space of being around athletes who come to you for

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Speaker 1: counsel or you wind up organically counseling. What are some

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Speaker 1: of the things that you notice from a mental health

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Speaker 1: perspective that athletes go through that most people would be

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Speaker 1: underway aware of.

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Speaker 4: Wow, that's a really good question. Yes, that moment on

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Speaker 4: all the smoke was I knew it was going to

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Speaker 4: be special day because when we sat down, I'm thinking

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Speaker 4: it's going to be an interview about my book, and

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Speaker 4: we just start talking about life, and I just said,

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Speaker 4: you know what, let's throw the book out. It's just

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Speaker 4: we just need to talk as brothers. And I think

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Speaker 4: one of the main things athletes deal with that many

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Speaker 4: may not be aware is that they constantly have to

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Speaker 4: keep their guard up. They don't know who they could trust. Again,

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Speaker 4: in this age of social media, you know, unlike what

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Speaker 4: Jordan and Isaiah, the Pistons and teams of that era,

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Speaker 4: even though still if they didn't have to deal with

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Speaker 4: all of their private lives being in public and so

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Speaker 4: being an athlete, you not only have to deal with

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Speaker 4: the pressure of playing the sport and then getting the

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Speaker 4: deals and staying out of trouble, but also everyone getting

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Speaker 4: in your business, and then you have to deal with

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Speaker 4: the family that you know constantly is in need. I

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Speaker 4: remember being at Dame Lillard's camp formerly zero, and I

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Speaker 4: had a moment where I opportunity to talk to some

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Speaker 4: of the boys and one of the kids he was

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Speaker 4: so stressed out because he felt that he had to

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Speaker 4: put on for his family. And I said, man, no,

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Speaker 4: you got it wrong. You're the child. This boy was

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Speaker 4: only fifteen. I'm just like, whoa, And so here it is.

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Speaker 4: He's already getting locked into this mindset that he's only

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Speaker 4: a provider. And then you got to understand as well.

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Speaker 4: These athletes are graded when they get started, so you graded,

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Speaker 4: you know, what is a five star, four star, three star,

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Speaker 4: So now you're being programmed that your worth is based

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Speaker 4: on your performance. And then I guess I would say, also,

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Speaker 4: you know everyone expects him like since they're making a

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Speaker 4: large sum of money, that they're not human. You know

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Speaker 4: that they don't have trauma at time travels even in

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Speaker 4: their sport, and you know the pressure of having to

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Speaker 4: always have to perform at a high level when you

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Speaker 4: may be dealing with the father wound or a mother

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Speaker 4: wound of depression. Of suicidal thoughts. And so these guys

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Speaker 4: aren't They far from being superheroes, just like men in society.

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Speaker 4: And I would just like to see one day where

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Speaker 4: athletes are not just treated as you know, humans or

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Speaker 4: just regular people, but also understood that, hey, you know,

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Speaker 4: they have lives as well. And that's why I'm happy

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Speaker 4: for my brother, Dame Lillard that he's able to go

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Speaker 4: back to Portland. You know, you hear people say, well,

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Speaker 4: he won't be able to get a ring who cares.

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Speaker 4: His goal is to be with his children. And that's

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Speaker 4: why I respect them so much because he's a family

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Speaker 4: man and that was really tough for him, not being

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Speaker 4: around him as much as he was used to. And

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Speaker 4: so again, these guys are human, and I think that's

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Speaker 4: the biggest challenge. So many people put them on a

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Speaker 4: pedestal like they can't make a mistake, so when they

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Speaker 4: do make a mistake, people condemn.

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Speaker 2: Them along those same lines about what you said about

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Speaker 2: Dame Lillard. As we're recording this, Chris Paul has.

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Speaker 1: Agreed to deal a one year deal with the Clippers,

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Speaker 1: and I recently was in conversation with Chris at the

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Speaker 1: American Black Film Festival and one of the things he

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Speaker 1: talked about from a mental health perspective about how hard

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Speaker 1: it's been for him these last five six years of

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Speaker 1: his career because he's been separated from his family.

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Speaker 2: His family is in Los.

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Speaker 1: Angeles, and he did not want to burden them with

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Speaker 1: constantly moving, and so they chose to stay in Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles while he is out here obviously playing a sport

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Speaker 1: that he loves, making a living, providing for his family.

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Speaker 1: But he spoke very candidly about how mentally tough it

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Speaker 1: was for him to when you know, to go home

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Speaker 1: to an empty house. And so when Day made that decision,

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Speaker 1: I also recognize the same thing. Like for a lot

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Speaker 1: of fans, they think like, oh, no, you're supposed to

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Speaker 1: be pursuing a championship constantly.

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Speaker 2: And I get it. These guys make a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: So people say, well, I would deal with that if

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Speaker 1: it meant I'm on an eighty million dollar contract.

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Speaker 2: I get it.

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Speaker 1: But it's a little bit more complicated than that. But

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Speaker 1: I want to highlight or at least zone in on

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Speaker 1: something that you talked about, because it doesn't just apply

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Speaker 1: to professional athletes. You're talking about the provider. The provider

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Speaker 1: narrative that men have been conditioned to accept and believe

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Speaker 1: that is a part of the fabric of who they are.

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Speaker 1: For women, I think what is similar, especially for black women,

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Speaker 1: is the strong black woman archetype. That is also it's

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Speaker 1: great to be a strong Black woman to be known

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Speaker 1: in that. I know people mean it as a compliment,

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Speaker 1: but it's also killing a lot of us at the

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Speaker 1: same time. And I think, based off what you have

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Speaker 1: talked about in I read your book The Man, the

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Speaker 1: Moment Demands, you talk so much in this book about

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Speaker 1: how that provider archetype can be very toxic. I hate

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Speaker 1: to use that word given what you said about words

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Speaker 1: when you just talk so eloquently and candidly about how

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Speaker 1: this provider narrative can be to the detriment of men.

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Speaker 1: So can you explain and expound more that about that

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Speaker 1: provider narrative sometimes being a roadblock for men in terms

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Speaker 1: of their overall health and growth.

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Speaker 4: YEA, being a provider for one is an honor. It

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Speaker 4: is actually you know, as a man of faith. You know,

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Speaker 4: a man who doesn't provide is called an unbeliever. So

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Speaker 4: it's something it's men that we have to do a

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Speaker 4: must And you know, I consider it an honor to

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Speaker 4: be able to provide the life that I can for

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Speaker 4: my wife and children. However, the issue becomes is when

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Speaker 4: that becomes our sole identity, that that is all we're

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Speaker 4: here to do. Hand over the check, give me a

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Speaker 4: play of food so I can eat and go to sleep.

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Speaker 4: And what has happened is that men are realizing now

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Speaker 4: that this really isn't living. And then when you look

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Speaker 4: at studies of how we die by suicide almost four

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Speaker 4: times as likely as women. And what is it. Nine

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Speaker 4: out of ten people who live to be one hundred

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Speaker 4: are women, and ninety percent of violent crimes in the

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Speaker 4: United States are done by men. And so when you

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Speaker 4: lock a man in this box of what I call

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Speaker 4: just being in a box of masculinity, meaning all you

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Speaker 4: can do is provide, protect, and build the rest of

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Speaker 4: his life, the rest of his I guess attributes are lost.

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Speaker 4: And I compared it to the pit bull terrier. You know,

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Speaker 4: when I grew up, this dog was known for being

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Speaker 4: the aggressor and fighter and protector, which you know, if

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Speaker 4: I had a pitbull terrier still I would want him

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Speaker 4: to have those attributes. But what we missed is that

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Speaker 4: this breed or bully breeds are called nanny dogs. They

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Speaker 4: were also great family companions. But what happened to this

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Speaker 4: dog when it was only locked in protector mode? It

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Speaker 4: became very unstable and was banned throughout you know, many

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Speaker 4: cities in the country. And if not for many animal

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Speaker 4: rights group, we would have never known that this dog

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Speaker 4: was a comprehensive dog. It was a protector but also

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Speaker 4: a nurturer. And so you know, when you got a

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Speaker 4: man also who is usually just providing for everyone, he

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Speaker 4: doesn't even understand what it means to provide for himself.

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Speaker 4: You know, I had an interview recently. They asked for

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Speaker 4: pictures of me, my wife, my family, me working with

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Speaker 4: the kids in the cave, and then they asked for

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Speaker 4: a picture of me hanging with my friends. To mean

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Speaker 4: I couldn't find one. I was searching, and it really

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Speaker 4: was sobering because here it is, I provide a work,

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Speaker 4: I do everything I can, I serve the community, but

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Speaker 4: where is my own social life? You know, for so

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Speaker 4: long my identity and I've broken free from a lot

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Speaker 4: of bad habits, but this would be my last one.

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Speaker 4: And so as a man, again, if your whole existence

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Speaker 4: is doing it's hard for you to be you know,

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Speaker 4: they say you become a human doing instead of being

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Speaker 4: a human being. And so I encourage men to, you know,

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Speaker 4: of course, continue to provide for those that we love,

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Speaker 4: but let's not forget that we too are a part

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Speaker 4: of the family.

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Speaker 1: So a couple of months ago, actually I don't think

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Speaker 1: it was a couple of months, but more a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks.

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Speaker 2: I posted on my Instagram.

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Speaker 1: It was a black woman who was talking about how

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Speaker 1: she was really concerned about the mental health of black

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Speaker 1: men who had done what you were talking about, who

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Speaker 1: had limited their vision of themselves just into their provision

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Speaker 1: and what they could do for other people. And the

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Speaker 1: response that she got from men was really was really

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Speaker 1: quite alarming because many of them were criticizing her and

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Speaker 1: what do you know about being a man? I understand that,

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Speaker 1: like I do, but I thought what she was saying

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Speaker 1: was really helpful. So I just posed the question on

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Speaker 1: my Instagram because I was curious, is like I wanted

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Speaker 1: to hear, specifically from men, and definitely from black men,

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Speaker 1: is why don't men think about being happy? And the

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Speaker 1: responses were really heartbreaking. So many of them kept saying,

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Speaker 1: I just want to be a piece. I don't care

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Speaker 1: about being happy. To me, being happy is me being

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Speaker 1: able to provide for my family. I don't have time

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Speaker 1: to think about being happy. And I was like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, which is totally different than how frankly, women

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Speaker 1: are conditioned. We are conditioned, maybe too much to think

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Speaker 1: about our own which is why y'all was like, y'all

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Speaker 1: ain't accountaballs like I get, I never know, because we're

371
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Speaker 1: always like, we got to be happy, we got to

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Speaker 1: be happy all the time, so we're.

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Speaker 2: Probably overrun with it.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, conversely, men are just not conditioned to think that

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Speaker 1: they deserve to be happy. And so many of my

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Speaker 1: black mail friends hit me up on the side, like,

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Speaker 1: since I never even thought about that question. So, as

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Speaker 1: someone who operates in this space, can you perhaps provide

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Speaker 1: some illumination about like why aren't men condition or why

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Speaker 1: do they never think about their own happiness?

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Speaker 4: You know what's interesting? My wife often says she just

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Speaker 4: wants me happy, and I tell her, happiness is like

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Speaker 4: any emotion is fleeting, It comes and goes. No emotion

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Speaker 4: is You're never in the constant state of happiness. Joy

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Speaker 4: the only thing that you can possibly maintain is peace,

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Speaker 4: and that becomes possible when you understand that peace is

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Speaker 4: not a place. It has to be within you before

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Speaker 4: it can be around you. And so a lot of men,

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Speaker 4: you know, if you go back again to how we've

390
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Speaker 4: been conditioned, so from as boys, we're told big boys

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Speaker 4: don't cry, all right, that right there, When you understand

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Speaker 4: that tears contain stress hormones that get excreted from our

393
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Speaker 4: bodies when we cry, you've literally told a man to

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Speaker 4: no longer allow himself to release all that he's dealing

395
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Speaker 4: with the natural way. So now we have to go

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Speaker 4: to the drugs, the pornography, to the high risk behavior,

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Speaker 4: and I mean I could go on and on, and

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Speaker 4: so happiness never became a part of being a man.

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Speaker 4: Then when you become a man, they say no pain,

400
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Speaker 4: no gain, and what doesn't kill you can only make

401
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 4: you stronger. Where is happiness? Where is expressing any emotion

402
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:46,400
Speaker 4: besides being strong, fearless and bold and a protector. We've

403
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 4: been conditioned that now it's okay to be a stoic, emotionless.

404
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Speaker 4: And now to your point about women, women are now

405
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Speaker 4: becoming storks. And that's to me, you know, and many

406
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Speaker 4: men agree that's The real danger is when a woman

407
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Speaker 4: cuts off her heart from the world. You know, I

408
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:07,199
Speaker 4: call it emotional incarceration, is self imposemental imprisonment where a

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Speaker 4: male a boy isolates his heart and his cares from

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Speaker 4: the world, and because of that, no one it feels

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Speaker 4: like no one cares. And I tell men, we have

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Speaker 4: to be careful when we say no one, because it's

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Speaker 4: not true. Because if I gather a room of fifty

414
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Speaker 4: men and we all can share transparently about what we're

415
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Speaker 4: dealing with, what we repress, you will see men start

416
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Speaker 4: opening up. And then you realize, wait a minute, people

417
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Speaker 4: do care. I'm just around the wrong people. And it's

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Speaker 4: typically you have to be around men. And so to

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Speaker 4: your point, happiness, you know, and as matter of fact,

420
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Speaker 4: when you think of the word, it's always attributed to

421
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 4: our wives. Happy wife, happy life. And we all know

422
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 4: that's the line. You've been married for how long.

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Speaker 2: Now it's sixty years, yes, okay, I.

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Speaker 4: Got twenty seven in in the game, so we already

425
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 4: know that's a misleading mantra. My wife and I now

426
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Speaker 4: say happy houses, happy spouses, And so it has to

427
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 4: have a if we're two halves becoming hole, that means

428
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 4: we're one now. So you can't just work on one

429
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 4: side of the body. That's like a guy going to

430
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 4: the gym only working his upper body. It's skipping leg

431
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 4: there every week. Eventually, if you get in a real fight,

432
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Speaker 4: I shoot forward legs. I can easily lift them in

433
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 4: body slam them. It's the same thing with marriage. You

434
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 4: can't neglect the husband always working on the wife, and

435
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 4: vice versa. You can't neglect the wife always focusing on

436
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 4: the husband. And so until we get to the place

437
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 4: where we feel value that it's okay, you know for

438
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 4: us to even you know, express joy. You know, think

439
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 4: about this. You grew up in Detroit. We used to

440
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 4: talk about you. If you were friendly, we would say,

441
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 4: oh you friendly, what you're friendly for? You know? So

442
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 4: being friendly is meaning I'm happy. So we condition see

443
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 4: if you're happy, that means those emotions are joy and

444
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 4: kindness and feeling good that don't mix well with today's masculinity.

445
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 4: And so because of that, we shun those emotions and

446
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 4: don't understand like, wait a minute, this is how I

447
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 4: can be a comprehensive man. This is how I can

448
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 4: tap into the gentleman attribute or characteristic or the nurturing

449
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 4: characteristic or truly being a lover outside of sex. But

450
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 4: until you know as me and we understand and accept

451
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 4: that we're more than providers, we're more than just doers.

452
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 4: But with human beings, I think it's going to be

453
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 4: difficult for all of us to really embrace those moments

454
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 4: of happiness enjoy when they come.

455
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 2: So your current book, The Man, Be the Man, the

456
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 2: Moment Demands, this is your third book.

457
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 1: I've read all of them now like a Man That'll

458
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: cry and there and by the way, even though this

459
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: book is these books are designed for men, I think

460
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 1: as a woman it really informs me, especially about how

461
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: I can be a better partner, a better emotional partner

462
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: for my husband. So I would encourage women to read

463
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: these books as well, because I think it's very good

464
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: information for us. With that being said, how does your

465
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: current book, Be The Man the Moment Demands. How do

466
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: you feel like that differs from your previous two?

467
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 4: Well? Quite, Like a Man was my message driven memoir.

468
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 4: Was my journey of my escape or fighting for my

469
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 4: escape from emotional incarceration, where I help men understand right

470
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 4: in my journey, that's what a lot of men love

471
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 4: that first book because they see instantly when they read

472
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 4: those pages that they're not alone in the way that

473
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 4: they feel. Battle Cry is an introspective blueprint that teaches

474
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 4: men how to wage and win their internal battles before

475
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 4: they become external wars. So so often as men, we

476
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 4: again we're taught to repress our emotions instead of really

477
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 4: dealing with them and becoming a verbal process where we

478
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 4: can express them. And then we wonder why we always

479
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 4: lose it, you know, at the slightest offense, or if

480
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 4: our wife, you know, as we get hit with a

481
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 4: barrage of questions and we had a rough day at work.

482
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 4: We can't pull on the patience or subdual any emotion

483
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 4: that would stop us from meeting that moment. So Battle

484
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 4: Cry was that book is teaching me how to wage

485
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 4: and when they're in the battles, and then the man

486
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 4: the moment demands teaches men to how to be the

487
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 4: right man in the moment. So many of us have

488
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 4: so many regrets because we were the wrong man in

489
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 4: the moment. And it teaches men, you know, that what

490
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 4: we've always felt, there was nothing wrong with it, but

491
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 4: we didn't know how to truly express it. For instance,

492
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 4: like being a nurturer. For instance, if you wanted to

493
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 4: be a gardener in my era, you know, you would

494
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 4: get clowned in my neighborhood if you in the backyard,

495
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:50,959
Speaker 4: you know, I guess pruning some flowers, or in the garden,

496
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 4: like pulling greens or tomatoes. You know. But now, if

497
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 4: you look at the culinary arts profession, it's majority men

498
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 4: or even the gentleman characters that we've been misled to

499
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 4: believe that a chivalry is pandering to women, but actually

500
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 4: it was a cold for medieval knights. And then the

501
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 4: whole alpha male myth, which has been debunked many times,

502
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 4: even by the guy who created it. Men find more

503
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,719
Speaker 4: comfort in hiding behind that facade because it's harder to

504
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 4: deal with the internal struggles that came from being a child,

505
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 4: whether it's abuse the father, womd, the abandonment, or being bullied.

506
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 4: And so you know the man the moment, the man

507
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 4: goes through the ten characteristics of a comprehensive man and

508
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 4: teaches us as men that were more than providers, but

509
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 4: we're also leaders, lovers, were gentlemen, were friends, and so

510
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 4: many of us we don't even understand what a friend

511
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 4: A true friend is now, because what do we say

512
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 4: now when someone has a lot of problems or they're

513
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 4: constantly bothering you, we call them toxic like you said earlier,

514
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 4: But we understand that true friends, we don't have to

515
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 4: put a boundary up between one of our friends who

516
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 4: are hurting. We make ourselves available and tell them the truth.

517
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 4: Whatever they're struggling with, we help them push through it.

518
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 4: And then, of course, the last three characteristics in that book,

519
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 4: which are really important is the husband, the father, and

520
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 4: the son. And I close with the son because that's

521
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 4: the characteristic that made me a comprehensive man when I

522
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 4: had to learn I was more than masculine. When I

523
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 4: had to care for my mother who had dementia. She

524
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 4: didn't need someone who just would fight bill collectors or

525
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 4: you know, confront the doctors who just wanted to push

526
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 4: psych mads on her. She needed a son who would

527
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 4: massage her, scout when she was stressed, the son who

528
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 4: would found her nails, who were cleaner, who would hug

529
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 4: her and caress her. And you know, I wasn't that

530
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 4: type of guy growing up. I was hyper masculine. But

531
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 4: that moment I refused to allow my mother to leave

532
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 4: here without getting the best care that she needed and

533
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 4: the most I made it clear, until I became a

534
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 4: comprehensive man, I couldn't meet that moment, would be the

535
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 4: man that moment demanded.

536
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: So it was that chapter, the Son chapter, that all

537
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: of it, every chapter you have resume neated with me

538
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: in different ways, either when it came to allowing me

539
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: to understand my husband better or thinking about my own

540
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: emotional incarceration.

541
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 4: That I have.

542
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,959
Speaker 1: But the Son chapter really resonated with me because I

543
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: was particularly interested in how you repaired or sought to

544
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: repair the relationship with your father. You know, I noticed

545
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: in a lot of interviews that you do, they wind

546
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: up being therapy sessions for the people you and I

547
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: It's like, I promise, I'm not doing that. I need to.

548
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: I need other people to get this information, especially men.

549
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: But I have to say it did make me think

550
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: about my own very complicated relationship with my father, who

551
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: I have not spoken to in probably almost three years

552
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons, and for the first time

553
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: in that time, it actually made me want to pick

554
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: up the phone and call him. And something that you

555
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: said in the book about how sometimes the treatment women

556
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: received can make us hearten our hearts, and my heart

557
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: feels very hard toward him now, and I don't know

558
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: how to make it unheard, but reading your book it

559
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: certainly gave me some things to at least think about.

560
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: So I wanted to ask you a little bit more

561
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: about what was it that allowed you to maybe see

562
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: your father in a way you hadn't seen him before

563
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: as he was dealing with I believe it was prostate cancer.

564
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 4: Correct, prastate cancer and park and Parkinson's.

565
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: Yes, that is correct, And so what was it about.

566
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: It that repairing that that unlocked it for you even

567
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: though your father had not yet been in the place

568
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: yet where you could understand why he parented you the

569
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: way that he did.

570
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 4: You know, to be honest, I have to say it

571
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 4: was it's my relationship with your shoe or eye, because

572
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 4: my wife told me when I cursed him out for

573
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 4: him accusing me of stealing money from him and hung

574
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 4: up on him, she was like, you know, Jay, you know,

575
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 4: you know we often say what would Jesus do? Like literally,

576
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 4: in this moment, what would he do? And I know

577
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 4: forgiveness is not necessarily for the one who offends you,

578
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 4: is for us you know, and in my relationship with

579
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 4: y'all the most high, and so I had to forgive him.

580
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 4: And when my stepmother made that call and say, hey,

581
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 4: your father's not doing well, you know, it wasn't that

582
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 4: much of an offense where I would let him die

583
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 4: without seeing And even though I didn't, I didn't I

584
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 4: knew he wasn't dying. But when you tell me that

585
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 4: there's one of the strongest men avenue in my life

586
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 4: isn't doing well, I had to go visit him, and

587
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,719
Speaker 4: so I still was, you know, guarded, but when I

588
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 4: saw my father barely could move, it broke me. You know.

589
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 4: I sat next to his bed and cried, and from

590
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 4: that moment I vowed to be in his life. I

591
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 4: forgave him, and I'm so glad I did, because I

592
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 4: learned that he was just a product of how he

593
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 4: was raised. He was conditioned to be hard, just like

594
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 4: my generation, except worse. They didn't have opportunities to express

595
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 4: how they feel like we do today. And so I

596
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 4: chose not to give the devil two stones, you know,

597
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 4: like you're not going to take me and him out,

598
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 4: you know, I'm going to make sure I do my

599
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 4: part to make sure I reconcile, and I wanted to

600
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 4: get some information from him, like you know, why are

601
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 4: you this way? What happened? And I learned that he, too,

602
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 4: like me, was called to be a servant of the

603
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 4: most high, but he ran from his and what was

604
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 4: deep After the many visits to the nursing home where

605
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 4: it was, I asked him to make you know, if

606
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 4: I had to make him a promise, what would it be?

607
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 4: And out of anything he could have asked me, he said,

608
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 4: I wanted, I want you to preach the gospel and

609
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 4: I want to hear you. And he was able to

610
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 4: do both. And so I always encourage, you know, children

611
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 4: of parents who they've been wounded by, like don't let

612
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 4: them die without you trying your best to reconcile it

613
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 4: like that weight. You don't want to be the child

614
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 4: at the funeral that jumps at the casket, you know.

615
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 4: And so I don't know what you and your father

616
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 4: went through, and you know, sometimes it seems like it's

617
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 4: you can't go back, But the first step is always forgiveness, Like, hey,

618
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 4: you know, I forgive you. I got to let it

619
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 4: go for myself. Once I was able to let go,

620
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 4: I was finally able to learn his side of the story.

621
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 4: And then I found that I was interpreting a lot

622
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 4: like it wasn't It wasn't a lot of truths there

623
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 4: because I was young, and if I didn't hear it

624
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,959
Speaker 4: from a horse's mouth, you know, I was just interpret

625
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 4: But when I finally heard where he got his mindset from,

626
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 4: why he was so angry, it seemed like perpetually my

627
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 4: father had a chip on his shoulder, we were able

628
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 4: to finally laugh. And then Jay at seventeen, no, at

629
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 4: thirty seven years old, was the first time I heard

630
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 4: him say he loved me. And that all happened because

631
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 4: I gave him an olive branch and he took it

632
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 4: and we were able to reconcile.

633
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to take a quick break, and after

634
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: the break more to come.

635
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 2: On Spot Ticks.

636
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: You do talk a lot about those father and mother

637
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: wounds that young men, men of all ages have to

638
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: deal with right now as we're recording this year in

639
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: the middle of camp at the Cave, and for those

640
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: who are not familiar with the Cave, it is a

641
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: transformational academy where you use sort of mixed martial arts

642
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: as a book, so to speak.

643
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 2: But it's really much more.

644
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: About character growth, you know, personal growth, character growth, integrity,

645
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: a lot of those things that young boys, young black

646
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: boys especially need. And you'd say something earlier about when

647
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: you were pointing out the different the different characteristics you

648
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: lay out in your book.

649
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 2: The Father of the Son, all of those things.

650
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: One of them that you laid out was about chivalry

651
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: and about how now that is being positioned in today's

652
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 1: age as being you know me and just pandering are

653
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: simping for women. But it made me wonder about trends

654
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: overall that you're seeing among our young people.

655
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 2: One of them is that is that chivalry.

656
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: They don't even think about chivalry, like it's just.

657
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:44,959
Speaker 2: It's just dead.

658
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: But given that you have such regular interaction with these

659
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: young boys and men, what are some of the trends

660
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: you are noticing, both positive and negative, about how they're

661
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: dealing with their own mental health.

662
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 4: Well, from this camp, you know, it was what I

663
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 4: love about it. We've gotten boys from the community to

664
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 4: come out, and the boys that probably wouldn't even get

665
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 4: into the cave of Adlements, so I get to get

666
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 4: you know, dexter Limb with all the boys from around

667
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 4: the community and even further out to come in, so

668
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 4: I get to see, you know, different backgrounds in one facility.

669
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 4: So we have fifty boys, and one thing I'm noticing

670
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 4: that is different is that they're willing to be transparent

671
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 4: when there is a safe space. They come, of course

672
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 4: with their guards up and the facade, and I get it.

673
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 4: You know, you don't know this kid standing next to you,

674
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 4: don't know if he's going to try you, So you're

675
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 4: going to try to act tough the entire time. But

676
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 4: when I open up the sessions and first allow myself

677
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 4: to be transparent, showing them my mistakes and the things

678
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 4: that happened to me back then, it's still time traveling.

679
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 4: Now the boys are really open with their fears. It

680
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 4: takes them a moment. But what I'm noticing on the

681
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 4: negative side is that they're like hyper anxious and have

682
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 4: a like stifling fear of failure. I ask the one

683
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 4: class you know about the fear of failure piece and

684
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 4: you know, as a parent, it hit me because they

685
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 4: said it comes from their parents just constantly yelling at

686
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 4: them when they make a mistake, and so it prevents

687
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 4: them from even striving or trying to do something that's

688
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 4: a good risk, you know, like trying to be the

689
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 4: best at a certain sport or academically trying to go

690
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 4: for that four point zero. But if you're constantly getting

691
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 4: yelled at for having a two point five, it's like, man,

692
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,760
Speaker 4: I know I have to make a mistake to become better,

693
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 4: but I don't want to constantly be condemned for trying.

694
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 4: And That's what I'm seeing. And then also, not just

695
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 4: our boys, I'm starting to see that the majority of

696
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 4: their parents are hurting, like so many parents are not

697
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 4: aware or skilled at not only identifying their trauma, but

698
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 4: going through the process of releasing it. And whence why

699
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,959
Speaker 4: you know, we encourage the parents whose sons are able

700
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 4: to get in the cave of a deloment, they go

701
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 4: through our trauma informed care training so they can understand

702
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 4: how their trauma is being passed down through their children.

703
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 4: And so those are the two things I'm seeing. And

704
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 4: then again they're battling a culture that says, you know again,

705
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 4: you know, being sure, this is what you call simping,

706
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 4: or that you know, why are you emotional? Why are

707
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 4: you crying? Why are you weak? Why are you sad?

708
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 4: But I'm noticing that these boys are dealing with great

709
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 4: depression when they bottle up their emotions. And when I

710
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 4: showed them a clip last week of a song Drake

711
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 4: has called Fears from an older album. He says, I

712
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 4: pop bottles because I bottle my emotions. And so when

713
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 4: they saw that, they were like wow. So even in

714
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 4: the culture it's promoted to mask how you feel as

715
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 4: a man, but now they're starting to see, even in

716
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 4: class that like wow, me sitting at the desk like this,

717
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 4: this is sending signs to my brain that I'm tired,

718
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 4: I'm lazy, instead of forcing yourself to have correct poster

719
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 4: and say no, I'm a master this emotion in this

720
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 4: moment and lock into my teacher. But overall, Jade, the

721
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 4: boys are are more transparent because there many of them

722
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 4: are at a breaking point. But then on the flip side,

723
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 4: the fear of failure is really what's concerning me, because

724
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 4: this is why you have a generation of boys where

725
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 4: many are apathetic.

726
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: You know, among along those same lines we keep hearing

727
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,240
Speaker 1: or reading. I think Time magazine did a piece about

728
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 1: how we are in a time where among adult men

729
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 1: that this is the loneliest error ever for men, which

730
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 1: is kind of startling to see what have you noticed

731
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: about or how much do you buy into or the

732
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: male loneliness epidemic.

733
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 4: I'm a byproduct of it. I helped tens of thousands

734
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 4: of men, and I have a close circle of friends,

735
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 4: but all of us we're there for each other. We

736
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 4: just had to make ourselves. Two of my friends go

737
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 4: get something to eat together. But we think being an

738
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 4: individual is isolation, and that's the problem. We find strength

739
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 4: in camaraderie. Like the warrior David and the scriptures, when

740
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 4: he was running from his life from King Saul, who

741
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 4: was jealous of them, the scriptures say four hundred men

742
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 4: came to him and he became a leader. These men

743
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 4: were in debt, distressed and discontented, just like many of

744
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,479
Speaker 4: us today, and they came together in this cave, which

745
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 4: the cave was a place of refuge, but they exited

746
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 4: that cave as mighty men of valid and so as

747
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 4: men when we find ourselves. You know, you often hear

748
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 4: say I did it on my own. No one does

749
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,800
Speaker 4: anything on their own, but we've been conditioned to believe

750
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 4: that that's how it happens. And so you know, I

751
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 4: have to fight. You know, I'm just like a lot

752
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,720
Speaker 4: of men. You know, I'm strong and want to provide

753
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 4: for myself, and you don't want to be a burden anyone.

754
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 4: And so when you don't, when hang time looks like

755
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 4: you're a burden, or if you have a lot of

756
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 4: responsible men like I do in my circle, they prioritize

757
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 4: priorities more than their own health or more than their

758
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 4: own emotional wellness and what they needs men And I

759
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 4: forgot one study recently came out that said that men

760
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 4: need to increase their hang time at least I think

761
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 4: it's twice a week now or something. And that's how

762
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,919
Speaker 4: bad it is for men. We're isolated. And when you're

763
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 4: isolated with your thoughts and your trauma, the one that

764
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 4: we lead in suicide.

765
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: As women, I think we're complicit and a lot of

766
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: things that we didn't create the patriarchy for sure, but

767
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: we certainly carry the water for it. And how for

768
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: you know, women, be it in relationships with you know,

769
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: husband's boyfriends, or even in dealing with your children or

770
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: dealing whatever man in your life, how can we be

771
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: less complicit in the emotional incarceration of men?

772
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 4: When you say and be emotional incarceration and men, what do.

773
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: You mean meaning that, like you just got haven emotional conversation,

774
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: incarceration is you know, men who feel like they have

775
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: to suppress everything, that they have to be stoic, that

776
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,800
Speaker 1: they have to live up to this sort of superhero perception.

777
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 1: Women certainly contributed to that because we make you feel Yeah,

778
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: we contribute because we make men.

779
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 2: Feel like that's the only value that you can provide.

780
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: Hits why I hate this fifty to fifty conversation so much,

781
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: But that's a story for another day. But like you know,

782
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: a lot of we're not responsible for men's behavior. However,

783
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 1: men do take their cues from what will attract us,

784
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: and I hear not maybe among my own friends, but

785
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: you see it across social media of women sort of

786
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: you know, not making men feel safe about expressing these emotions.

787
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: So that's why I ask, like, how can we be

788
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: more less complicit in the emotional incarceration and men feeling

789
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: like they don't have anywhere to turn to or go.

790
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 4: Well, one thing I would advise, I guess both men

791
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 4: and women. I talk to two men now who are

792
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 4: listening and watching. Your wife is not your counselor therapist.

793
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 4: You know, once you start breaking free, from emotional incarceration,

794
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 4: you become more expressive. I have men who are street

795
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 4: guys in Detroit will call me once they start breaking

796
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 4: free and start asking me. They start asking me, you know,

797
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 4: they'll say, Jay, Man, you don't have to read your book.

798
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 4: I'm finding myself crying a lot more, and I'm like,

799
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 4: what do you mean said? Now? I watch a movie

800
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 4: with my son and I'm tearing up, and I just say, brother,

801
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 4: you just backed up like a damn you know, And

802
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 4: finally you have an opportunity to release, and it's going

803
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 4: to take you some years. When I first started breaking

804
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 4: free from emotional incarceration, I was I had held so

805
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 4: much in, so much trauma from losing, you know, intergenerational trauma,

806
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 4: for my grandfather's lynching, to losing two brothers to murder,

807
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 4: to my best friends dropping dead of a heart attack.

808
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 4: I held all of that in and so when I

809
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,720
Speaker 4: had opportunities to finally express it, it would just flow

810
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,919
Speaker 4: out of me. And so once I was able to now,

811
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 4: once I had released enough to where I could become

812
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 4: emotionally stable. I had made the mistake early on believing

813
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 4: that Nicole, my wife, was my counselor and therapist, and

814
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 4: that's not how that works. Meaning I appreciate her being

815
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 4: there for me and supporting me, but I have to

816
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 4: always be wise enough to read the room or what

817
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,399
Speaker 4: I call the huddle principle and my book Battlecry. If

818
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 4: you're a quarterback and you go to the huddle and

819
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 4: you're the leader and you feel like you're going to

820
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 4: lose the game, you can't let those in the huddle

821
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 4: know that. You got to say, hey, this is the

822
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 4: play we call. Now we're gonna run it. Let's go,

823
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 4: let's fight, and let's break moon. And you go and

824
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 4: you play the game. When you come home, got to

825
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 4: evaluate how is your wife feeling, what's the mood of

826
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 4: the home, where the children at and you can't share

827
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 4: certain things, and that's where the camaraderie brothers come. Now

828
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 4: far as to the wife, what does she have to

829
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 4: bring to the table to help her man become a

830
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 4: comprehensive man. The first thing I ask is, don't try

831
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 4: to be his wife mom. Basically his wife and his mother.

832
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 4: Like I lost my mom, and there's no love ever

833
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 4: I will ever receive like the one I love I

834
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 4: got from my mother. My wife is a strong second

835
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 4: and she still can't touch the love I got for

836
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 4: my mother. What I mean is that so Nicole knows

837
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 4: now is that she is to nurture me in the

838
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 4: right moments. And that happens when the wife becomes a

839
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 4: great listener. Instead of listening to respond, she listens to

840
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 4: my heart to say, oh, this is heavy for him.

841
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 4: And then she had kindly either tapped me on my head,

842
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 4: which is a signal for me to lay into her

843
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 4: lap like we'll see in the Black community. You'll see

844
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 4: the picture of the pharaoh laying in the lap of

845
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 4: his queen. It's similar to that, but she never forces

846
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 4: the moment. You know a lot as the mother and

847
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 4: you the nurture in you. If you see your husband

848
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 4: is hurting her disappointment or disappointed, you want to step

849
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 4: in and be that mom, but you can't. You're his wife.

850
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 4: And so when he allows you that space, when he

851
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 4: gives you that room, listen, and when you see the

852
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 4: sign of the opportunity, take it and comfort him through

853
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 4: those moments. And that's the most valuable thing I've seen.

854
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 4: What my wife is that she knows now not to

855
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 4: I guess try to be my cold to say you

856
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 4: could God even keep pushing through. She'll say, wow, Jay,

857
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 4: that was tough. I don't know how you endure that. See,

858
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 4: as man, we're used to the peptos. We're used to

859
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 4: the man up and keep going. It's very rare we

860
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 4: get from women or even sometimes our friends that on man,

861
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 4: I don't even know how you're dealing with that, like

862
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 4: acknowledge that what I'm caring is heavy. And that's why

863
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,720
Speaker 4: men feel so unappreciated by the women in their lives.

864
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, you acknowledge it on holidays, but we

865
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 4: don't care about that. We would like to acknowledgement throughout

866
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 4: the year, like, hey, I appreciate you doing what you do.

867
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 4: I know it's hard considering the way you treated at

868
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 4: your job, the way you treated in society, the way

869
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 4: you got to move past. You're on father womb because

870
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 4: everything that he told you was negative. And so that's

871
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 4: what I would tell women. First, listen with intent. Don't

872
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,399
Speaker 4: listen to speak, Listen to hear his heart or listen

873
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 4: to respond. Second, look for the cues to enter. Look

874
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 4: where he's long and look for what he's longing for.

875
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 4: And once you know your husband, you will be able

876
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 4: to identify them and then move there and then you know. Lastly,

877
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 4: don't try to culture. Instead identify what he's dealing with

878
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 4: and say, wow, it really takes a strong man to

879
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 4: do all that you're doing, and I truly appreciate it.

880
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 4: That affirmation for my wives is what you know makes

881
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,399
Speaker 4: us feel appreciated and keep going, and don't wait till

882
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 4: Father's Day or birthday to do that. Do it once

883
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 4: a week even, you know, and acknowledge us when it's

884
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 4: not a celebration. Just say hey, I like how you

885
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 4: You know you you fix the garage today, or you

886
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 4: constantly you're never late for work, You're constant providing the

887
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 4: kids need this, I need the car fixed or whatever.

888
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 4: You're always there and that's what keeps a man encouraged.

889
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 4: And that's what helps us feel appreciated.

890
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: And also, I think you said this and be the

891
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: man the moment demands is that we shouldn't always listen

892
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: and have a ready made solution.

893
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 4: Yes, right, that's what I mean by don't coach him.

894
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 2: But don't coach him, okay, because I remember that very

895
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 2: much so.

896
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: And by the way, that works great with women too,

897
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: because sometimes we just want to vent.

898
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 4: We don't need to. I made that mistake with Nicole

899
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 4: a few times. But she's not looking for me to

900
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 4: be this teacher. She just needs her husband to hear

901
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 4: her heart, you know. And that's true. I called that

902
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 4: concept don't change the weather, because a lot of times

903
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 4: you care, you say, bane, it's gonna be all right,

904
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 4: We're gonna make it. But it dismisses that right now,

905
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 4: it's not okay. And so as me and we're fixs.

906
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 4: We strategies. We like the hard work and pushing through,

907
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,439
Speaker 4: but we don't like our emotions or the situation being

908
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 4: lessened than what it really is. If it's raining, let

909
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 4: me sit in this for a moment so that I

910
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 4: can come out of it, so I can figure out

911
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 4: what's going on. Men don't like being pacified. You tell

912
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 4: me what it is. Let it be what it is

913
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 4: so I can figure it out and fight through.

914
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: This very good advice, And what would be what would

915
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 1: be your advice for men? Because I have I think

916
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: women we notice this too sometimes when y'all get together,

917
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: we're hearing the sort of report of back or even

918
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: when I have seen in them my husband and his friends,

919
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: is that there's a lot of surface level. There's a

920
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 1: lot of like, you know, they might sit up there

921
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: and argue about who is the best way I receiver

922
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 1: from nineteen eighty seven football thirty minutes, And there's a

923
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: place for that, and that in itself, it's probably therapy,

924
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:19,240
Speaker 1: like being able to have those kind of frivolous conversations

925
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,879
Speaker 1: that just are a sense of relief. But among their

926
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 1: own friendship groups, especially seeing how silent and stoic and

927
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 1: men don't always tell you, you know, your problems. Because sometimes

928
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: my husband will tell me the situation a friend is

929
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 1: going through. He's never specific about who it is because

930
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to divulge any confidences.

931
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 2: But I'm like, well, did you ask him this? And

932
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 2: did you ask him about any of them? Like no,

933
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 2: I'm like, what are we doing right?

934
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 4: So?

935
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: What is your advice to men among their own friendship

936
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: groups how they can get other men, you know, their

937
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: friends to open up more.

938
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 4: Well, first you got to, you know, be what they

939
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 4: don't see. You know, I'm always the first example when

940
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 4: ever there's a gathering of men and I have to

941
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 4: lead the group, you know, not just you know, hear

942
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 4: what's going on inside of them. Ask them the deeper questions,

943
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 4: ask them what's going on, what's how you how does

944
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 4: this make you feel? Has it ever taken you to

945
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 4: a dark place? And give them the floor and don't

946
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 4: rush them. I think it's good, like you were saying,

947
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 4: to have those surface level conversations. Those are what we

948
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 4: call starters. But what men need is actually real introspective

949
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 4: work of conversations where they can dive deep and know

950
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 4: that their brothers are truly with them. And I would

951
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 4: tell brothers to, you know, again, be what they didn't get,

952
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 4: you know, be quick to listen and slow to speak,

953
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 4: and understand that you know you're not the only one

954
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 4: with problems. And that's I had to learn that early

955
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 4: on as a leader. You know, if a lot of

956
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 4: people are looking to you, they're making sure your problems

957
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 4: are taken care of. But what about all the other

958
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 4: men that you're teamed up with to basically or to

959
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 4: accomplish a mission. They get left out. And so I

960
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 4: make sure that if my problems are addressed, I want

961
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 4: to address every man that's in my circle. I'm really

962
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 4: more intentional now with the young men that I disciple,

963
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 4: ask them about what's going on in their lives, let

964
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 4: them talk, and I don't limit the time and then

965
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 4: give them sound advice, but almost give them the opportunity

966
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 4: to figure out the process as well.

967
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:29,319
Speaker 2: So what does self care look like for you?

968
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 5: Now?

969
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 4: I have a concept I created called the four RS,

970
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 4: which is reflect, release, reset and rest. This is a

971
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 4: process I do every day. I've done it once during

972
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 4: this interview. When I have something to think about, I

973
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 4: reflect and release it real quick so I can stay

974
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 4: present in this moment. So I reflect on whatever is

975
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,839
Speaker 4: troubling me that may not have me present, and then

976
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 4: I release it so that I can reset and then

977
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 4: getting a state of rest, not sleep, but in a

978
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 4: state where I'm calm throughout my day. And this is

979
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 4: how I'm able to maintain a peace or have the

980
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 4: peace you could have in the mouth deeds just riding

981
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 4: your bike down seven miles. And that's what's really crucial

982
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 4: for men. And this is why I'm thankful that we

983
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 4: piloted the summer camp for the boys, because for the

984
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 4: first time we get to keep them for eight hours

985
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 4: during the time when school would influence them their friends.

986
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 4: We're there. We're able to check it immediately and then

987
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 4: help them understand the moment and how to process their emotions.

988
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,439
Speaker 4: In it and to teach them the four hours, like okay, cool,

989
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 4: reflect on what happened. He was trying to bully you.

990
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 4: All right, we reconcile. Now let's release it so that

991
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 4: we can reset. And now we're in a state of

992
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 4: rest where we can move throughout this day in peace.

993
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 4: And so that's where I'm at now. That's what self

994
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 4: care looks for me, or I call self maintenance in

995
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,919
Speaker 4: my book, because when you say care or self love

996
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 4: as a man, we're like, what is that? That's like happiness?

997
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 4: What are you talking about? We don't know what that

998
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 4: feel like. What are you talking about? You say maintenance?

999
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 4: A man instantly knows what you mean. Take care of something,

1000
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 4: stay on top of it. And I tell men, you

1001
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 4: don't want to die as a work of course, you

1002
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 4: want to. You want to die and be honored as

1003
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 4: a war horse, a workhorse. That's all he does is work.

1004
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 4: A war horse works fights and is maintained because you

1005
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 4: never know when that battle is coming. And so I

1006
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 4: encourage men to be warhorses and not just workhorses. And

1007
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 4: the way you can maintain that is by practicing the

1008
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 4: four urs, not allowing a day to get by where

1009
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 4: you haven't reflect on either something that's hurting you or

1010
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 4: something you've done to hurt someone else. And then you

1011
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 4: may need to practice another R which I call retain,

1012
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 4: because you don't want to release something that may have

1013
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 4: offindit your wife and your children. You want to retain

1014
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 4: that and then revisit it, which is another R which

1015
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 4: I didn't plant and say, but you want to revisit it.

1016
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 4: And then now once you reconcile, which is another R

1017
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 4: which I'm not trying to do, but then you can

1018
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 4: finally reset, and then you can rest. And when men

1019
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 4: learn that power of being able to practice what I

1020
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,240
Speaker 4: call Sherlock meditation, which is based in the four hours

1021
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 4: in the moment, even in fighting, even in sitting still,

1022
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 4: even in the boardroom, even during the game. When I

1023
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,359
Speaker 4: work with athletes, stop wearing your headphones. While you got

1024
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 4: headphones on in the pregame warm up, you can't wear

1025
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 4: them during the game. You're training your brain that this

1026
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 4: is the only way you can lock in and focus,

1027
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,760
Speaker 4: and in twenty minutes you're about to be in a lousy,

1028
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 4: loud environment, and so understanding how to be in a

1029
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 4: state of rest even when it's chaotic, is a great power,

1030
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 4: and as men, we always desire peace, but we got

1031
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 4: to do the end of work to be able to

1032
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:49,439
Speaker 4: maintain it wherever we are.

1033
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 2: I know that you see it.

1034
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 1: But whenever you post a clip for the work that

1035
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 1: you're doing in the Cave or just really anything that

1036
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: you're speaking of speaking on and especially as it pertains

1037
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 1: to young boys, is always in the comments, Man, I

1038
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:02,879
Speaker 1: wish you had a.

1039
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 2: Program like that here.

1040
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 1: Man, I wish they had this in this city or

1041
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 1: that city or this place. How much thought have you

1042
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: given to expanding what you do in other locations.

1043
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 4: It's always on my heart. Again, I think we have

1044
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 4: about eight hundred and twenty boys on a wait list

1045
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 4: right now, which is actually, you know, greeves my spirit

1046
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 4: because by the time we can get to the majority

1047
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 4: of them, they aged out of the right of passage.

1048
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 4: So this is why we started the Cave Camp or

1049
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 4: the Cave Summer Campus year as a pilot for a school.

1050
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 4: That's why I call it an academy. It was something

1051
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 4: that I had the foresight to see, like, wait a minute,

1052
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 4: if we could actually become the culture, the school culture.

1053
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 4: Now the parents have to be in touch with us.

1054
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 4: Now we can deal with bully and we can deal

1055
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 4: with it. We deal with everything as they go through

1056
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:57,240
Speaker 4: their lives. Now we can truly train change the boys.

1057
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 4: And so this is a pilot for school we hope

1058
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 4: to launch soon where we'll start, I think it's grades.

1059
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 4: We say, yeah, six through eighth grade. Started the sixth

1060
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 4: grade maybe with thirty students, and then build on to

1061
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:14,760
Speaker 4: the next grades. And so that's the only scalable model

1062
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 4: I could see where because you can do just the

1063
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 4: cave alone and it works. But what we've discovered over

1064
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 4: twenty years doing it now is that if we're not

1065
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 4: involved in the area where they spend the most time,

1066
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 4: it's very hard to really help them transform their or

1067
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 4: renew their minds to how they see life. And so

1068
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 4: that's our desire is to take this pilot and then

1069
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 4: to create a middle school for boys, a Cave of

1070
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 4: Adelam Academy, where instead of physical education, they'll do the

1071
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 4: Cave of Adelam training and they will have their core

1072
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 4: subjects as well as well as after school programming like dining, etiquette, grooming, etiquette,

1073
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 4: workforce development, financial literacy, and other life skills or workforce development.

1074
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: Very happy that in your book you covered the etiquette

1075
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: at your part. Yeah, that is important, and especially as

1076
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 1: it relates to encouraging the young man to stop wearing

1077
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: the hoodies everything.

1078
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1079
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 4: And the key thing again at tying to the principle

1080
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 4: of why we talked about it this morning, I call

1081
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 4: it the hood mentality because the boys had their hoods on.

1082
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 4: Of course, we tell him to take them off, but

1083
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 4: ask him why and what the hood represents. So I

1084
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,439
Speaker 4: call it a portable cave because when the kid puts

1085
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 4: a hood on inside, he just doesn't want to be bothered.

1086
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 4: You know, you never know what a child has dealt

1087
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 4: with in the car ride just going to school, and

1088
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 4: so we give him that space, but we always make

1089
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 4: him dig deep to why are you doing what you do?

1090
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 4: When you teach the kid why why, he won't he

1091
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 4: won't fail in life as often because then he start

1092
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 4: being a principal based man. Uh.

1093
00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 1: And finally, I want to ask you on a serious

1094
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 1: now before we get to the messy question that ends

1095
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: every podcast. Is there has been there's been a lot

1096
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: of conversation around black male mentorship and what that looks

1097
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: like in today's time, and there have been some concerns

1098
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 1: that there is a lack of black male mentorship from

1099
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:22,919
Speaker 1: maybe I guess, I would say our generation and maybe

1100
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 1: a little bit older from where you are.

1101
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 2: What do you.

1102
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 1: See from that perspective, like, do you feel like there

1103
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: is a lack do you do you sense any reluctance

1104
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: among the men of you know, maybe your generation before

1105
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 1: or beneath that, to get involved in mentoring young black boys.

1106
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 4: I would say yes, that I don't see as many

1107
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 4: men volunteering to be mentors as it was when we

1108
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 4: first started our nonprofit in two thousand and three. And

1109
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 4: I think that that's because more men now. I believe

1110
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 4: men we always have been experts at repressing or suppressing

1111
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 4: how we feel, just to keep things going. Like you know,

1112
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 4: what's the saying they say, I can't even think of it. Basically,

1113
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 4: you just continue to push through no matter what's going on.

1114
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 4: We've reached a place now where men are struggling to

1115
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 4: push through, and as a result of that, it's hard

1116
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 4: for you to pour out of a not just an

1117
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 4: empty cup, but a cup that is empty and cracked.

1118
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 4: And so so many good men, good men with jobs,

1119
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 4: have a lot to pour out. Their cups are empty

1120
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 4: because their entire lives is pouring and so they have

1121
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 4: really nothing. They have something to give, but they have

1122
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 4: nothing to give. And so until we can get to

1123
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 4: the place where these men are being poured back into

1124
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 4: and their cup isn't always like this, we're going to

1125
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 4: constantly see the lack of mentors in our community. And

1126
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 4: you know, Frederick Douglas said it's easier to raise children

1127
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 4: than it is to repair broken men. It's true, but

1128
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:12,520
Speaker 4: we should never leave men broken. And that's where I

1129
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 4: feel that we're failing the village of the tribe is

1130
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 4: that you know now that we're all awakened to the

1131
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 4: importance of our identity is not in what we do.

1132
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 4: Our identity is black people, is not in our trauma

1133
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 4: and what we've been through is. But where we're going

1134
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 4: and for me is me being a servant of the

1135
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 4: Most High who I am and his son. We have

1136
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 4: to find and seek the healing that we need so

1137
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 4: that the next generation coming behind us won't be the same.

1138
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 4: It's almost like in construction when I used to lay tout,

1139
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 4: what good is it to tear up a roott sub

1140
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 4: floor if you're not going to put a new one down.

1141
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 4: And that's what's happening. We've opened the wounds. We see

1142
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 4: what's happening, But now who's going to help bring the

1143
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 4: healing and actually cover this area in our community? You know,

1144
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 4: we have more resources than ever, but why don't we

1145
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 4: see a lot of transformation Because we're planning seeds on

1146
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 4: ground that's not fertile. The hearts and the minds have

1147
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 4: been wounded and trauma side traumatized so much it's hard

1148
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 4: to receive the seed, and so the seed never grows.

1149
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 4: And that's why I believe that we are as a community,

1150
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 4: which is why I'm often asked by the fathers in

1151
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 4: the cave and men that see me when I'm out

1152
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 4: and about, They say, when can you do the Cave

1153
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 4: of Adellam for men? Because we need it? And that's

1154
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 4: my next step in my calling is to create a

1155
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:39,000
Speaker 4: gathering space for men where they get the same opportunities

1156
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 4: as their son did on those mats, where they can

1157
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 4: have moments where they're transparent, emotionally open and deal with

1158
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 4: their fears and anxieties and their trauma and then break

1159
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:53,240
Speaker 4: free and become comprehensive men of the Most High.

1160
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 1: All right, well, Jason, I want to thank you for

1161
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: spending some time with me, because I know your time

1162
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: is extremely valuable. You have a lot going on, especially

1163
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 1: this summer. But before we end the podcast, I will

1164
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 1: ask what is the messy question? This is where we

1165
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 1: make some headlines for no reason at all, But it's

1166
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 1: actually not as messy as I normally try to take it.

1167
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 2: But I'll ask you this.

1168
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: Between the three books you have written, you have you know,

1169
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 1: each of them have had a different thing. I read

1170
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 1: this so you can you know, clarify whether or not

1171
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 1: this is true. It is be the man the moment

1172
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 1: demands your last book.

1173
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 2: Of this series.

1174
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 4: Yes, as far as manhood. If they don't have it

1175
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 4: by now, they never get it. I've exhausted it, you know,

1176
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 4: but I still teach on it. Yes, my next book

1177
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 4: will actually be for about boys raising boys in this generation, okay,

1178
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 4: and to be written for parents, teachers, caregivers, anyone that

1179
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 4: works for boys or have sons that want to know

1180
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 4: the way that has worked for us in the Cave

1181
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 4: of Adela. I will empty my cup in that book

1182
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 4: and make sure now that may be my last book altogether.

1183
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 4: I know writing Jay is no joke. Writing a book

1184
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 4: is draining, especially if you would have a one of

1185
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 4: the top publishers, you know how it is with the

1186
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 4: copy of it, phases and all that. It's a lot,

1187
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 4: and writing the Man in the Moment Demands was draining.

1188
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 4: But I'm finished with the Manhood series. They got three

1189
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 4: books to really unpack what they're dealing with. But now

1190
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 4: let's teach men how to be fathers and help moms

1191
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 4: become the mothers that they truly desire to be, you know,

1192
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 4: and so many mothers are I had one mother recently

1193
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 4: in accounting session with her son, and she just wept

1194
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 4: in the office because she had to become both dad

1195
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 4: and mom and she can't be dad. She just can't.

1196
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 4: And to give a mother an opportunity to just be

1197
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 4: mom is liberating for them. And so the care we

1198
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 4: operate as that father figure, and it what's beautiful is

1199
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 4: when the son's father comes, we can actually work with him,

1200
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 4: and it's just truly a powerful I guess, a moment

1201
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 4: in time that I'm thankful that I'm a part of.

1202
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 2: So maybe one more book.

1203
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 4: Yes, it's going to be one more. It's going to

1204
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:28,959
Speaker 4: be one more. My publisher's like, oh, you got one more,

1205
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 4: and but this one here, I wish I could shuld

1206
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 4: a title. I can't, but it's really powerful. So imagine

1207
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 4: me taking you into the world of a boy, what

1208
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 4: he deals with, what he faces, so that your heart

1209
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 4: will become tender, and then give you the tools needed

1210
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 4: to help him transform from where he is into becoming

1211
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 4: a comprehensive man.

1212
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 1: Well, I know that everybody who meets you, and certainly

1213
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 1: is a whaere of your work, says this, but it

1214
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,920
Speaker 1: can't be said enough. You talked a lot about showing

1215
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: important men and our lives appreciation, but there's so many

1216
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: people whose lives you've touched, so many trajectories you've changed,

1217
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 1: futures you've altered in the most powerful way. So may

1218
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 1: God continue to bless you and bless you know sort

1219
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:18,080
Speaker 1: of everything that you're doing, and most importantly people you

1220
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 1: know these While God provides.

1221
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 2: Write a check, we just you know what I'm saying.

1222
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 2: I was like, the provision is telling y'all write a check.

1223
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:35,800
Speaker 4: You know, I'm glad you said that because we just

1224
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:40,200
Speaker 4: had to replace our roof. It was forty thousand dollars. Yeah.

1225
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, listen, he loves it when y'all bringing props checks.

1226
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know we had to pay for it again.

1227
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 4: Because we couldn't stop, you know, helping the youth. But

1228
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 4: that's forty thousand going out of our account. We're nonprofit,

1229
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 4: and so I'm opposed to videos soon like, Hey, if

1230
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 4: you willing to help put some of that back, we

1231
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:03,640
Speaker 4: truly appreciate it. So thanks for mentioning that.

1232
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 1: Yes, I understand the struggle already. So yes, everybody, make

1233
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 1: sure that you not only verbally support the Cave and Jason,

1234
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 1: but financially supports the Cave as well so he can

1235
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 1: keep doing what you're doing. All right, Well, thank you, Jason.

1236
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 1: I appreciate you and supporting you both up close and

1237
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 1: from power away.

1238
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 4: Appreciate you too.

1239
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 1: One more segment to go coming up next, the Final Spin.

1240
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:43,160
Speaker 1: Time now for the final spin, the topic wrestling legend

1241
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 1: Hulk Hogan passes away at the age of seventy one.

1242
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:48,919
Speaker 1: The spin, it is wrong to bring up the fact

1243
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 1: that Hulk Hogan exposed himself as a racist. The truth

1244
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 1: even in death surfacing hok Hogan's racism is fair game.

1245
01:07:57,520 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 1: Now listen, I used to love ho covid, yeahd me,

1246
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 1: sam My prayers, even my vitamins, and practicing his infamous

1247
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 1: leg drop in a living room he was larger than life,

1248
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 1: and then he showed the world he had a pretty

1249
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 1: small mind. As part of a massive civil lawsuit Hogan

1250
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 1: won against Gawker Media for publishing portions of a sex tape,

1251
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 1: it was discovered that Hogan also made some bio racist

1252
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 1: remarks during the recording. Now on the recording, Hogan is

1253
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 1: heard expressing disgust at the idea of his daughter dating

1254
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 1: a black man, and he uses the N words several times. Now,

1255
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:34,759
Speaker 1: Hogan issued an apology and said he wasn't a racist,

1256
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 1: but a lot of people, especially black people, didn't get

1257
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 1: the feeling he was being sincere. He even blamed growing

1258
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,720
Speaker 1: up in Florida for the reason that he used these

1259
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 1: harmful words, even though plenty of people grow up in

1260
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 1: Florida and don't express the disdain that he did for

1261
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:53,759
Speaker 1: black men. When this happened, Hogan was sixty one years old,

1262
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 1: which is more than enough time for Hogan to have

1263
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 1: developed a more worldly opinion about black people. But Hogan's

1264
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 1: brought up questions about whether it's fair to remember the

1265
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 1: bad parts of someone when they die, to which I say,

1266
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 1: everybody is entitled to their own remembrances, and just because

1267
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 1: you die. That doesn't negate the bad things that you've done,

1268
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: particularly when there is still a question of accountability. Now,

1269
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 1: there's also the fact that Hogan essentially became a Trump cheerleader,

1270
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:24,599
Speaker 1: showing support for someone who also has a track record

1271
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 1: for behaving and speaking like a racist.

1272
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:27,719
Speaker 2: Now, Huk Hogan was a.

1273
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 1: Great wrestler and the perfect character Terry Balaa Hok Cogan's

1274
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:35,599
Speaker 1: real name was the man and a deeply falled person.

1275
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: This concludes another episode of Politics. You can reach me

1276
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 1: across social media or via email. I'm at Jamail Hill

1277
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:46,519
Speaker 1: across all social media platforms, Twitter, Instagram, fan based, bluestoyt

1278
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 1: and threads. Please use the hashtags politics. You also have

1279
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:53,679
Speaker 1: the option of emailing me as Politics twenty twenty four

1280
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. You can also video me a question,

1281
01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:00,519
Speaker 1: but please make sure it's thirty seconds or less. Don't

1282
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,760
Speaker 1: forget to follow and subscribe to Politics on iHeart and

1283
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,520
Speaker 1: followspolitics pod on Instagram and TikTok.

1284
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 2: Politics is spelled sbo l I t i c S.

1285
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:13,320
Speaker 1: A new episode of Politics drops every Thursday on iHeart

1286
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:17,920
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics

1287
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 1: where sports and politics don't just Mix.

1288
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 2: They Matter.

1289
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:28,599
Speaker 1: Politics is the production of iHeart Podcasts and the Unbothered network.

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Speaker 1: I'm Your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Schakoigne.

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Speaker 1: Lucas Hymen is.

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Speaker 2: Head of Audio and executive producer.

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Speaker 1: Original music for Spolitics provided by Kyle Visk from wiz

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Speaker 1: FX