1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 3 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and there's Jerry over there, and this 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: is the podcast known as Stuff You Should Know Podcast podcast. 5 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: We all three on our group teleconferencing thing here, had 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: our cameras on for the first time. Yeah. It was 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: great for about I don't know forty five seconds before 8 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: I turned mine off. Yeah, and then it was like, well, 9 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to just be observed. I'm no goldfish. 10 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: Then you turn yours off. I like Jerry's long here, 11 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: though I know Jerry just looks like I just don't 12 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: quite know how to put it, just like a wealthy, 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: middle aged person who could buy and sell your sorry 14 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: ass if she wanted to. So we're cussing now. I 15 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: think so you said you said the D word, not 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: too long and go. So I feel like I'm I'm 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: allowed at least one. Uh well, we'll probably bleep that 18 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: out for fun D word? Which D word? Uh d 19 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: A m N. No, I didn't you did, and I 20 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: don't remember when, but you said or no, the P word. 21 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: I'm sorry you said the P word? What what's the 22 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: P word? You know the P word. I can think 23 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: of a few bad words. It was P I, S, S, 24 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: E D. Period. That's not a cuss word. Yes it is. 25 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: And you because you didn't mean it like drunk. You 26 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: meant it like p od. Oh goodness, you don't even 27 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: know what a cuss word is. And you're in your 28 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: mid forties. This has become one of the most juvenile 29 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: introductions we've we've come up with so far, and we've 30 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: we've said some pretty juvenile stuff over the course of 31 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: the years. Chuck, but I think it's trying shake it off. Okay, 32 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: get serious and prepare to re record an episode. No no, 33 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: and actually, so I hit you you you decided we 34 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: were going to do this one, this EPISO st on 35 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: criminal records, and um I hit you back and said, hey, 36 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: we've actually done one. We did an episode back in 37 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve called why you Probably have a criminal record, 38 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: And there's gonna be some overlap when we were talking 39 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: about criminal records, but this is definitely different, and even 40 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: more to the point, this is an important enough thing 41 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: that people don't really think about or know about unless 42 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: you're suffering from it, that it's worth like restating every 43 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: ten years basically as long as it's a problem. Yeah, 44 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: and this is this is a little more robust. But 45 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: and I know we talked back then. You know, I 46 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: I did not have a criminal record ten years ago. 47 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: I'm happy to say I still don't have not been 48 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: arrested in the last ten years. But that was something 49 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 1: I don't remember. I'm sure we talked about it, but 50 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: I don't remember the first time. Is that like, you know, 51 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: this is sort of getting ahead. But you can have 52 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: a criminal record if you just get arrested and they're like, oh, sorry, 53 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: you didn't do anything after all, but you still have 54 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: a criminal record. That's nicely right, man. As a result 55 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: of that, that rule, um, something like one in three 56 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: Americans have a criminal record. I saw one in three. 57 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: I also saw one in four. And if it's one 58 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: in four, that means that as many Americans have a 59 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: criminal record as have a four year diploma. Yeah. That's 60 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: that was pretty mind boggling. And it's kind of like, okay, well, 61 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: so like I have a criminal record. I was arrested once. Um, 62 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: it's part of my checkered past and I don't like 63 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: to talk about it, but you know, it's not really 64 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: stood in my way. Well, I was kind of I 65 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: got a little bit of the birth lottery in a 66 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: lot of ways, and I was able to navigate and 67 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: make my way through life having a criminal record without 68 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: it actually proving a problem. That is not necessarily the 69 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: case for a lot of people, including people who have 70 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: only been arrested but haven't um in, weren't even convicted 71 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: of a crime. They just happened to be of a 72 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: different race or a different sexual orientation or something like that. 73 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: But we're having a criminal record can prove to be 74 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: a real problem for you if you're especially if the 75 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: deck is already stacked against you, almost as if employers 76 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: are looking for a reason not to hire you. They 77 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: can legally not hire you because you have a criminal record. 78 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: There's a lot of problems with it, and we'll get 79 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: into all of that, but um, I feel like we 80 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: need to just generally explain the whole thing first, to 81 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: the whole process of what they are and how they're 82 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: dealt with. Right, unless you live under a rock, you 83 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: know what a criminal record is, right, That's right. A 84 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: criminal record, like you said, is it's it's very simple. 85 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 1: It's it's literally just government uh like information that the 86 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: government in the United States keeps about you. That says 87 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: it's data, and it says I mean, I guess we 88 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: can go like what's on the literal criminal record, Like, 89 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: once you get arrested, you've they've got your name, they've 90 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: got your data, birth if you have any known aliases, 91 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: which I wish I did, but I don't. I'm not 92 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: nearly cool enough to have aliases, Johnny tight lips. Uh. 93 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: Physical description of me, Yeah, that's funny. Physical description a 94 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: little known fact that usually includes looks on a scale 95 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,239 Speaker 1: of one to ten. Yeah, mine just says Harry Loaf 96 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: And they're like, is that his name? Description? That should 97 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: be an alias of yours h A R l O 98 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: A p h A. While I don't think your alias 99 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: should also describe you though. That's probably about aliens. Yeah, 100 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: you wanted to be forgettable and make you more forgettable. 101 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: That's true. That's like rule number one of aliases, right. Uh, 102 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: current address, the type of crime you committed, allegedly, outstanding arrestaurrants, 103 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: dates and arrest of your conviction, fingerprint data, and oh 104 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: that mug shot. I know, it's weird to feel like 105 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: I wanted a mug shot at one point in my life. 106 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: But it's a weird thing in this country because mug 107 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: shots are kind of one of two things. It's either 108 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: really embarrassing or it's kind of like this weird badge 109 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 1: of honor. I'm not sure it happened how that happened, 110 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: but yeah, but I mean that's how you that's how 111 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: you might view it from from society, right, Yeah, well, 112 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: I mean, but from from society in general, it's a stigma. 113 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: And there's the entire businesses basically like patent trolls, but 114 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: with mug shots that just accumulate these things because they're 115 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: a matter of public record and publish them online and 116 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 1: you have to pay them to take them down, which 117 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: is a problem. But it does go to show like, yeah, 118 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: there's a there's a it's it's like, um, it is. 119 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: It's a social stigma to have a mug shot of you. 120 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: And even beyond the social stigma, it can be really 121 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: problematic and prevent you from a lot of getting a 122 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: lot of normal things in life. Well, and you know, 123 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: I was kind of kidding when I said I don't 124 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: know how that happened in America, but I do know 125 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: how that happened, And that's the Internet when they started 126 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: just publishing, like, oh, look at Nick Nolty and look 127 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: how awful this person and looks on their worst night. 128 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: So that's how it became, you know, a cultural sort 129 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: of and badge of honor was probably the wrong thing 130 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: to say, but you know, something to be shared, Well, 131 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: it's kind of like owning it, you know, where if 132 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: everybody everybody's gonna judge you, you might as well own 133 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: it and be like, yeah, I've got a mug shot. 134 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: What are you gonna do about it? Square? You got 135 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: a mug shot? Well, that makes you square if you don't. Yeah. 136 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: My favorite ones are when the celebrity is super smiley, 137 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: they like, I defy you to I'm not gonna look 138 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: like Nick Nalty here. Yes, those are funny enough, We're fine. 139 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: But the ones where the person like really actually committed 140 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: a terrible crime and they're still smiling, those are enraged. Well, 141 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: those are disturbing. Yeah, but poor Nicknolty. You know. Riff 142 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: tracks the the fine people um who who basically made 143 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: the second iteration of Mry Science Theater three thousand and 144 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: now carried on and make perhaps an even better version 145 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: of that as Riff tracks. Yeah, stuff, you should know listeners. Yeah, 146 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: I think so. Them are um friends of the show. 147 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: They they perennially, especially Mike Nelson, picks on Nicknolty every 148 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: chance they get, kind of painting a sketch of him 149 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: as a really unsavory and grizzled and in terrible person. 150 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: But it's it's hilarious, but also it's like, what what 151 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: did Nicknolty ever do? And I genuinely don't know. Yeah, 152 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: I'm not sure what that much shots even from inside 153 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: from probably drugs, but I know the one you're talking about. 154 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: He's wearing like a Hawaiian shirt that's like ruffled and 155 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: rum old and like the collar sticking up on one side. 156 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 1: It's not a Einstein here. Yeah, it's not a good 157 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: picture for sure, But here's the good news. In the 158 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: United States. And by the way, this doesn't include traffic violation. 159 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: So if you've talked about, you know, having speeding tickets 160 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: still on your record quote unquote, that's it's not your 161 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: criminal record. That's something different, which we'll get to. It 162 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 1: depends though, if it was a really big like it 163 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 1: was a crime committed with your car, like you I 164 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,719 Speaker 1: vehicular homicide. It's wrong, right those would be on there. 165 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, speeding ticket or something I think even like 166 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: a suspended license due to points or something like that, 167 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: that that's on a different database. But ye wouldn't be 168 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: your criminal record, right. But if you do have a 169 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: criminal record, you can and you've heard this on on 170 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: TV shows plenty of times, I want to have that expunged. 171 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: You can have your record expunged sometimes. Um, this means 172 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: all it means is it's not active anymore. It's not 173 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: like they just they take your file and they burn 174 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: it with a torchlighter and they say, have a great life. 175 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: The government still has all that data, like that record 176 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: is still there, but it's just and it varies from 177 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: state to state, like how you go about it. But 178 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: that that just means that your record is now sealed. Uh, 179 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: and you have you know, if you want to do this, 180 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: you go you the best place to start is where 181 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: you got pinched to begin with, and they will help 182 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: you from that point forward. You may have to hire 183 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: an attorney, but um you may not well so um yeah, 184 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 1: even and if you don't hire any training, if you 185 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: do it yourself. There's a lot of court fees and 186 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,359 Speaker 1: court costs associated with it's a really long, hard, difficult, 187 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: um process, which you know makes sense in in a 188 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: lot of cases, but in other cases you're like, this 189 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: is unjust. You know, we need to make this easier. 190 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: But the I I actually saw, and I think the 191 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: reason is because different states called different things expunging or ceiling. 192 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: But I saw in a lot of cases those are 193 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: two different things. And in the case of expunction and 194 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: then a terrible word, um, they they actually do destroy 195 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: the case. Yeah, like it's gone, Like it's like it 196 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: didn't happen, like the crime happened. But as far as 197 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: you're concerned that that your case file is destroyed, so 198 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: you're not in the database anymore, and that point, no, 199 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: it's gone. But and then ceiling is more like what 200 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: you described, where they actually keep the records. They might 201 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: destroy the things like the evidence that they gathered from me, 202 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: like DNA evidence and um, all that stuff might be destroyed, 203 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: but the record, your criminal record associated with the case itself, 204 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: that will remain. But it's just really hard to get 205 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: to and usually you need a court order and a 206 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: judge will have to weigh the benefits or the pros 207 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: and the cons of unsealing it. For whatever it is. 208 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 1: And usually it's like, I mean, anybody who's watching enough 209 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: law in order knows this. If they have you on 210 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: a crime and they suspect that you've committed this crime before, 211 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: they'll go to the judge and ask to unseal that 212 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: criminal record to just kind of find out, oh, this 213 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: guy's a repeat offender or whatever. Yeah, And as far 214 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: as whether or not they will either expunge or seal 215 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: to begin with, they're going to consider, obviously sort of 216 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: the no brainer stuff like what it was you did, 217 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: whether you were convicted, how long it's been, what you have, 218 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: what you've been like since then. Uh, he looks on 219 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: a scale of one to ten, the Harry Loaf, no, 220 00:11:52,240 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: thank you, No expungement. Uh, expunkment, expungement, expunction. I'm serious, 221 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: Like you can't help but kind of like drag up 222 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: a little bit of flim from the back of your 223 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: your throat when you say that word. All right, I 224 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: think we should take a break because I'm thoroughly grossed 225 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 1: out right now. I'm gonna go check my privilege and 226 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: then we'll talk about juve juvenile criminal records right after this. Well, 227 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: now we're on the road, driving in your truck. Want 228 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: to learn a thing or two from Josh Camp Chuck. 229 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: It's stuff you should know, all right, and things jo stop. Alright, 230 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: So you're talking about juvie records that are coming up. 231 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: Now we're we're coming up on criminal records for kids 232 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: and they which I think, by the way, I think 233 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: we should do a whole episode. I kind of thought 234 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: Crime and Punishment our series was over. Now there's this, 235 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: and I think I think we should do one on 236 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 1: the juvenile I think we should do one on Juby. 237 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: It'll be over, Chuck, when we do an episode that's 238 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: actually about the dustvs. Key book. When we do that, 239 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 1: that will be that will be the final seal on that. OK. 240 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: I need to get started now. We will seal the 241 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: Crime and Punishment suite with that one. But we were 242 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: talking about juvenile criminal records, UM, not Juby itself, but 243 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 1: you were saying you want to do an episode on that. 244 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: I think so for sure, I'm down with that. But 245 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: the pretty much at least in the United States, and 246 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: I assume in plenty of other countries as well that 247 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: share um similar sentiments about crime and punishment and justice. 248 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: UM that if you're a kid, the crimes you commit, 249 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: especially non violent crimes, especially if you've only committed say 250 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: like one crime. UM, that's typically treated differently than if 251 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: an adult commits a crime. And one of the major 252 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: ways that it's treated differently, well, one of the first 253 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: ways is treated differently is it's tried in a different court, 254 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: the juvenile court. UM. And one of the things that 255 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: UH seems to be pretty much agreed upon across the 256 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: board is um, you shouldn't you shouldn't have this criminal 257 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: record follow you around for the rest of your life 258 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: because of some mistake you made as a kid. UM 259 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: And as a result. I don't know if it's automatic, 260 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: but I think it's at least so common you could 261 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: almost call it automatic that the juvenile's records will be 262 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: sealed when they turn eighteen, so that after long as 263 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: they've kept their nose clean, right, there's a lot of 264 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: the Yeah, there's a lot of qualifiers with that, and 265 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: that's a big one that you you need to it 266 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: needs to have been number one, a small enough crime 267 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: or a non violent crime so that you know it 268 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: makes sense to to basically protect you from society's judgment 269 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: rather than protect society from you, which is I don't 270 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: know if we really said. One of the big reasons 271 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: criminal records exist or are searchable, say like in the 272 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: case of a job search or a landlord or something 273 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: like that, UM is to basically is basically saying like 274 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: you're not really trustworthy. You gave up the base trust 275 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: that everyone has walking around when you committed a crime. 276 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: We need to let other people know that you're not 277 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: trustworthy in that sense, so you know your criminal records 278 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: can be accessed like that. This is the opposite of that. 279 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: This is saying like, you're screwed up once as a kid, 280 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: and we don't want to to just ruin the rest 281 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: of your life because of that, So we're gonna just 282 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: make it like you're not even like you never even 283 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: had a criminal record. It's not going to be searchable, 284 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: that's not going to pop up, and you can legally 285 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,239 Speaker 1: say when your record is sealed or expunged in particular, 286 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: that you don't have a criminal history from that point on, right, 287 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: And we should point out that this all means that 288 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: you are a juvenile who has tried as a juvenile 289 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: in the United States, as someone under eighteen, you can 290 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: still be tried as in a alt if and this 291 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: is obviously something they do when it's much more serious crimes, 292 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: definitely serious serious felonies, sometimes the more serious misdemeanors. But 293 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: in this case, it's just this as far as your 294 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: criminal record goes in expungement and ceiling and everything. Uh, 295 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: this is just the same as you are an adult, 296 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: as is with the case with registering as a sex offender. 297 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: If you are a minor who is a convicted sex offender, 298 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: you have to be on that sex offender registry just 299 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: like uh an adult would be, and that is on 300 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: your criminal record, and uh you you know, maybe at 301 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: some point we should do one on the sex I 302 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: know we've talked about it a couple of times, but 303 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: we should probably do a full episode on the sex 304 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: offender Registry. I mean, it's just it needs to be 305 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: discussed because it makes a lot of sense in a 306 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: lot of ways, and then there's a lot of problems 307 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: with it that ruined people's lives. It's it needs Yeah, 308 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: we definitely need to do one on that, agreed. Yeah, 309 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: because that's one where are uh that database is open 310 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: to the public. You can you can go online and 311 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: you can search your neighborhood or search specific people or addresses, 312 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: and um, you know it's so parents and in the 313 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: public at large can track the whereabouts are registered sex offenders. 314 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: Like you said many many times, that is a great 315 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: thing to happen. But I know in a recent episode 316 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: we talked about the fact that I think if you 317 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: get arrested for public your nation, you have to register. 318 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: Is that right? Yeah? Another big one that can be 319 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: really really life ruining is um, consensual sex with a 320 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: minor when you're like one year over the line, like 321 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: if if the line is seventeen and you're seventeen and 322 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: she's sixteen, or vice versa, that can Yeah, you can 323 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: end up on the sex register, UM, sex offender registry 324 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: for life. Um. And that's a like again, it's like 325 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: needed and necessary. The sex crimes are just treated differently, 326 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: and I think rightfully so I think most people agreed 327 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: these are special kinds of things. One of the reasons 328 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: why they're treated differently is because sex offenders have been 329 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: shown to have the highest recitativism rates of any criminal. Um. 330 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: I think you're through an extra d in there. Recitativism. 331 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: I know I nailed it, is that right. It's a 332 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: bone head word, admittedly, but I think I nailed recidivism. 333 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: No recitativism. Man, I'm pretty sure I this is deletrious 334 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: to my self confidence. You made that joke before, the 335 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: same reasoning, don't joke. There's only one. There's only one. 336 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: D Well, we you have to make that joke every 337 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: time you say that word. It just comes as a 338 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: bone frequently in that movie is so good. But the 339 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: but the point is is that sex offenders have a 340 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: reoccurrence they commit crime. Um, they're more likely to recommit 341 00:18:55,359 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: sexual offenses than the average criminal is occur. It's you 342 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: got me on that one. It's true. And also I've 343 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: noticed I've been saying like shut up lately, and I 344 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: am sorry. I don't know where it's coming in. But no, no, 345 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: you don't mean it. That is, I'm not supposed to 346 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 1: say the S word, I know, and you know I 347 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 1: won't do it anyway, So what no, I know, it's 348 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: a it's a few point. Uh So, as far as 349 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: storing these things, you know, in the old days, it 350 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: was exactly like you probably think it was, which is, 351 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: these things were kept at local police stations and that 352 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: was kind of the end of it. Maybe they would 353 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: share things between counties, which meant um, probably somebody driving 354 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 1: over and looking in their file cabinet and then saying 355 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: thanks a lot, and then shutting that, putting the file 356 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: back and shutting that foul cabinet and leaving again. But 357 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: these days, of course, this is all going to be 358 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: done on databases. But it's still really kind of I 359 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: don't want to say willy nilly, because I feel like 360 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: that's uh a little too critical, but there's it's definitely 361 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: not some national really codified thing where this happens than this, 362 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: than this. The you know, that first database is at 363 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: the state and local level, and then if you're convicted, 364 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: you you may have that uploaded into a larger state 365 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: repository or you may not. And then that state repository 366 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: may be linked to the National Crime Information Centers, Interstate 367 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: Identification Index or the Triple I, but maybe not. You like, 368 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,959 Speaker 1: it's it's hard to tell unless you really do all 369 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: this investigating about your own criminal record where it lies. Yeah, 370 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: it's there is a federal database, like you're saying, that 371 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 1: does exist, but it's just not compulsory among the states 372 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 1: or among the localities to submit it to that. And 373 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: some people are like, this is ridiculous. Is the dumbest 374 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: thing ever, Like every crime committed, every maybe arrest, every made, 375 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: certainly every conviction ever made in any locality in any 376 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: state on on the federal level, should all go into 377 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: the Interstate Identification Index UM, which is by the way 378 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: open or available for searching only to law enforcement and 379 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: like the courts, Like it's not no one else, no 380 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: private background check company could get their hands on it, 381 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So it's just on state, yes, 382 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: Like if you're a state, if you're a cop and 383 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: like you know, um, Atlanta, you could go onto the 384 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: II and UM and search it. But you know, like 385 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: if if I were an employer and I hired a 386 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: company to conduct a background check, they couldn't gain access 387 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: to that. No, no no, no, I meant on the state level, 388 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: like if you're convicted on the state level, regular citizen 389 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 1: can search public records. Like that's viewable by anyone, right now, 390 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: that's correct, That is true, um, when there's really no 391 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: distinction between the criminal record you would have in that 392 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: state repository and that criminal same criminal record that state 393 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: repository uploads to the Interstate Identification and so yeah, you 394 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: could you could conceivably have that same criminal record checked. 395 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: It's just that particular data. It makes you wonder what 396 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,959 Speaker 1: they got in there that isn't that isn't elsewhere, or 397 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: they just don't want to give out the password to 398 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: any schmo, you know, I don't. I don't know. But 399 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: the the whole thing starts in the responsibility for keeping 400 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: the record begins at the local level, and that local 401 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: law enforcement agency or if a state trooper arrested you, 402 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: the state, or if the FBI arrested you, the FEDS 403 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: whoever arrested you, or whatever court convicted you, I should say, 404 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: and or because you can have multiple criminal records from 405 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: different you know, from the the cops and from the court. Um, 406 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: they're they're responsible for maintaining, creating and maintaining that. And 407 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: then they're also the ones that uploaded or don't upload, 408 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: depending on the state laws. Right uh. And you know 409 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: we mentioned the traffic stuff earlier that is on the 410 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: National driver Register if you have that d u I 411 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: or a suspended license. I think failure to help someone 412 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: at the scene of an accident is a pretty serious offense, 413 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: any kind of fatal accident, or even lying a perjury 414 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: about driving um or operating a motor vehicle. All of 415 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: that stuff can be on the National Driver Register, and 416 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: that can be accessed by an employer if your job, 417 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: like if you want to go drive for UPS or something, 418 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: and they're they're sure, you're going to probably look into 419 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: that stuff. Yeah, but but that kind of again, that 420 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: kind of stuff is not going to come up on 421 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: a criminal background check, and the average employer for a 422 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: non driving job is not going to bother to to 423 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: look into the National Driver database from what I could 424 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: tell right, Um, but an employer might ask you that 425 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,959 Speaker 1: it's actually very frequent. I think something I saw like 426 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: eighties something percent of employers ask for or do background 427 00:23:54,680 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: searches on potential applicants, and something like seventy three per 428 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: cent of employers in the United States have like a 429 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: stated background check policy. Um, so it happens a lot, um, 430 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: and employers are are perspective. Employers are one of the 431 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 1: few groups that you can say, yes, you may access 432 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: my criminal background records, Like I couldn't give you permission, Chuck, 433 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: and you go off and access my criminal record or 434 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: vice versa. I've asked no, and I've given you permission. 435 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: But when you went to the Sheriff's office. They were like, 436 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: beat it loaf. I was like, how did they know 437 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: my alias? Right? Yeah, that is true. Uh, but you also, 438 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: as an employer have to have permission for them to 439 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: go through a firm or a credit agency or something. 440 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: They can't just do that on their own. You can say, um, no, 441 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: don't go look at my criminal record, but you're probably 442 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: not going to get that job. If you are getting 443 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: interviewed and you do have a criminal record and arrest 444 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: for something, Uh, it's you know, it's best to own 445 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: up to that in the moment and don't try and 446 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: fool them because they can probably find out and uh, 447 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: you know, you probably have a good excuse or a 448 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: good reason. Um, if you're trying to put your life 449 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: back together and it was something when you were younger, 450 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: or maybe a really minor offense, just best to be 451 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: honest about all that stuff because it will probably come 452 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: out in the end one way or another. Right, Um, yeah, 453 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: especially if they if they end up doing the background check. 454 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: I think there's like two boxes like have you ever 455 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: been arrested? Which is way different from have you ever 456 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: been convicted? Which is you know, what I've always seen 457 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: is have you ever been convicted of a crime. But 458 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: apparently on some job applications they ask if you've ever 459 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: been arrested. So if you say no and you have 460 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: complete but then you give them the authority to do 461 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: your background check and it comes back and you lied 462 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: on your application, they're just gonna turn you down. I 463 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: saw even if you say yes and they they come 464 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 1: back with a UM, you know, with and find out 465 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: that you have a criminal record. UM. I think something 466 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 1: like fifty percent of employers said like that would be it, 467 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: like they would just move on to the next candidate. 468 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: But that's really high. But that also means that fifty 469 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: percent of employers would not say that that disqualifies you. 470 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,959 Speaker 1: So if you're truthful and honest, and especially especially if 471 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 1: you have an explanation for what what you know, what 472 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: the crime was, then you know, you're there's a really 473 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: good chance that among that of employers, you're gonna move 474 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 1: on and and like that will be sorted and you'll 475 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: just continue on an application process or even possibly get 476 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: the job. So I don't I didn't see anywhere that 477 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: said you know, you should totally just lie on the 478 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 1: application that they will never find out. Nothing like that 479 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: like everything I saw is like what you said. You 480 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 1: should just be upfront and honest about it and have 481 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: a have an explanation at the ready to not just 482 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: like yeah, I know anyway, you were asking me, you 483 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: know what my greatest fault is, and I would say 484 00:26:54,440 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 1: perfectionism and working too much and that arrest. Uh you 485 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. You can be discriminated against because of the 486 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: job because you're not you're no longer what's called being 487 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: in a protected class. UM, you can be discriminated against. 488 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: You can be refused that job, you can be refused 489 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: public housing. UM. Many many things can say an agencies 490 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 1: can say no, no, thank you because of your arrest record. 491 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 1: I think if you have a felony drug use convention 492 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: convention conviction of a convention I know, man underrest Thompson 493 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: sit right in exactly. Uh, that means that they cannot 494 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: in most cases discriminate against you because of that conviction. 495 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 1: So they've made a little bit of headway. And we 496 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: may have talked about that in our Drug Courts episode, 497 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: but I can't remember, but we did. UM. So there 498 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: are a couple of things that, like, UM, that we'll 499 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 1: talk about. I guess that reformers are basically saying, like, 500 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,239 Speaker 1: we need to we need to do something about this. 501 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: But one of the first kind of band aids that 502 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: the federal government came up with to help people who 503 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: have a criminal record get a job despite having a 504 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: criminal record is something called fidelity bonding, which I didn't 505 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: even know existed, did you. I had heard of that 506 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: because of um, the film industry. Uh and I don't 507 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: know that they called it fidelity bonding. But it's sort 508 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: of like back when you know, Robert Downey Jr. Was 509 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 1: having all his troubles years ago. Yeah, that was fidelity bonding. Yeah, 510 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: they would these insurance these movie companies would have to 511 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: put up these really big insurance bonds to ensure that. 512 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: You know, they're spending a ton of money on this movie. 513 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: You can't have Robert Downey Jr. And you know he's 514 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: turned everything around, which is a testament to him and 515 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: he really has and his wife's help. But uh, yeah, 516 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: that that like he's got to show up to work 517 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: and it's a real risk hiring him in the state 518 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: or any you know, this this goes across the board. 519 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: It's not just movie stars. But yeah, you can put 520 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,479 Speaker 1: up and pay for a fidelity bond to kind of 521 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: cut their risks. Yeah, so I saw it here that 522 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: you can, but it looks like it's pretty common, um 523 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: that the federal government will actually issue them free of 524 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: charge to the to the worker, where the federal government 525 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: is basically saying, give this person a chance. Um if 526 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: they if they steal all your whole stock room, uh, 527 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: if they rob you, uh if if if you suffer 528 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: a loss because you hired them, we will compensate you. 529 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: That's what that that fidelity bonds dos, which I think 530 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: is really cool. You know, it's like a good I 531 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: don't know, there's just something I didn't know it existed, 532 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: and it made me think the world's a slightly nicer 533 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: place than I realized it was before I realized there 534 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:48,239 Speaker 1: was federal bonding. Yeah, or fidelity bonding or any kind 535 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: of bonding coupling is what you're thinking of. Okay, So, um, 536 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: there's a there's a kind of a push among um 537 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: legal legal types to standardize um uh criminal records. And 538 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: if you take all of the information on a criminal 539 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: record together, UM, it's called criminal criminal history record information. 540 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: That's like what all the details are. If you're a researcher. 541 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: That's what you would refer to it as everybody else 542 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: calls criminal records or wrap sheets or whatever. But um, 543 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: there's a pusheet two people among certain people to say, hey, 544 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: we need to standardize this. It needs to be compulsory 545 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: to report crimes to the to the federal database that 546 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: you know law enforcement can search. Um, we just need 547 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: to make this a better, more robust thing. And there 548 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: is another group, there's a whole other camp that says 549 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: these are really ruining people's lives unjustly, and we need 550 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: to take another look at this. And they don't necessarily 551 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: disagree with the people who say this needs to be 552 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: standardized and compulsory, but they do say we need there's 553 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: it's being left to hang far too long, And I 554 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: say we take our our last break and then come 555 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: back and talk about the pros and the cons of 556 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: criminal records. What about you? Let's do it. Well, now 557 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: we're on the road, driving in your truck. Want to 558 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: learn a thing or two from Josh Camp Chuck. It's 559 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: stuff you should know, all right, Lening things with Chuck, 560 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: all right? So, uh, you know, if you're a fine 561 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: upstanding citizen out there and you've never been arrested, you 562 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: might think, well, there's no downside at all to keeping 563 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: these robust records. Um, anytime you think there's no downside 564 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: to something, you should right there and just reflect on 565 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: it a little further. Yeah. Absolutely, it doesn't matter what 566 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: it is. There's a downside too, sugar cookies with icing. 567 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,719 Speaker 1: There's a downside to Teddy Bears. Somewhere, there's a downside. 568 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: That's my new Mottel Chuck that just came up with 569 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: a new model. Somewhere there's a downside. What's the Teddy 570 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: Bear downside? I haven't researched him enough. Probably choking hazard 571 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: from the eyeballs. All right, good point, Yeah, thank you. 572 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: I just came up with that. I'll come up and 573 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: say more things if you give me a few minutes. 574 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: So some of the some of the pros of keeping 575 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: good track of criminal records is you have a robust 576 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: data set and it's not just like, look how many 577 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: bad people there are in the world, because I think 578 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: we've hopefully already gotten across that. That doesn't necessarily mean 579 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: you're a bad person. But you can use this data 580 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: for recidivism research. It's a really valuable source of data 581 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: instead of having to go to all these different agencies. 582 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: It is nice to be able to go to one place, 583 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: a kind of a one stop shop to find out if, um, 584 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: some of these programs are effective to keep people from 585 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: recommitting crimes are going back into the criminal justice system. Yeah, 586 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,239 Speaker 1: that's a really important thing to know and to have 587 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: like actual data on you know. Oh, absolutely another thing, 588 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: and it's not just recidivism, but redemption. There are people 589 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,719 Speaker 1: that do research on on redemption. And it's not just like, 590 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: I mean, that's sort of a broad word to call it, 591 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: but that's really what what it is. These researchers, Alfred 592 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: Bloomstein and uh Kim Hoori Nakamura have done a lot 593 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: of research trying to find out basically, like if you're 594 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: trying to get a job, what is where is the 595 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: reasonable point in your life after you haven't done something 596 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,479 Speaker 1: like done something wrong again that it's null and void 597 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: and that an employer shouldn't even have to ask you anymore. 598 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: Basically like when are you fully rehabilitated as far as 599 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: the law enforcement goes, Yeah, like what's the point where 600 00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: criminal stops being a criminal when they stopped committing time? 601 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: How long after that, and they actually studied something like 602 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: eighty eight thousand criminal records from New York State, Yeah, 603 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: and then followed them for twenty five years. So this 604 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: is a really robust study. And what they found was 605 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: that there actually is a point, a quantifiable point, where 606 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: somebody stops being a criminal UM. And they found that 607 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: if you're UM, if if you committed a serious offense 608 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: as your first offense, typically it was about eight years 609 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,800 Speaker 1: UM where you were no more likely to be arrested 610 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: than the average citizen, which is a really huge Yes. Exactly, 611 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: that's the key because every time you commit another crime, 612 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: you're like still a criminal, still a criminal, right, But 613 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: if you commit like say just one crime, that's the 614 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: easiest way to do it. But ostensibly it would work 615 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,839 Speaker 1: for people who commit multiple crimes and then stop, which 616 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: is something called dessistance. It's where criminal stops committing crimes 617 00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: UM at some point. If you care about rehabilitation and 618 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: reintroduction in society, you have to say, Okay, you're no 619 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 1: longer a criminal. And these these two researchers, Bloomstein and Nakamura, 620 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: quantified it eight years for a serious offense with no 621 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: other offenses in between, and then three years for a 622 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: less serious crime. I didn't see what they were takes 623 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: about three years before that. That person who was once 624 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: a criminal is now statistically no more likely to be 625 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,439 Speaker 1: arrest of her crime than the average person who has 626 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 1: never committed one before. And I think that's fantastic. The 627 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: thing is, in this case, criminal records are a paradox. 628 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: You need to um have criminal records to study them 629 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: to figure out when a criminal record is no longer 630 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: needed and it's in fact actually harmful to the person. 631 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: It's not serving any benefits for society. Person is no 632 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: longer a criminal. Now it's actively harming this person who's 633 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: no longer a criminal by keeping them from getting jobs. Yes, 634 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: and I think that's uh. I think the last part 635 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: of that quantification for that study is the most important part, 636 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:05,359 Speaker 1: which is, after a certain time, they're just like everybody else. Yeah, 637 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: like someone who's never been arrested before. They are no 638 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: more likely to commit a crime than you aren't just 639 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: because they did it one time eight years ago or 640 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,760 Speaker 1: three years ago. Yeah, And that is not the way 641 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: that society, at least as far as as in practice goes, 642 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: is set up. It's now the way it is now generally, 643 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: although the minds are changing, as we'll see. Um, the 644 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: if once you're criminal, you're criminal, that's it. You're criminal 645 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: for life. And these research like this is saying like 646 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,919 Speaker 1: that's just not true and this is really unjust after 647 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: a certain period of chime. Yeah, obviously the cons we've 648 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: kind of dabbled in that through most of this episode. 649 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: You know, we have a mass incarceration problem in this country, 650 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: and we're not saying like, oh, just don't police and 651 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,439 Speaker 1: let people do what they want. It's no big deal. 652 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 1: But that's different than mass incarceration when one, like you 653 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: said at the beginning, one and through adults has been 654 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,800 Speaker 1: arrested by the age of twenty three in this country. 655 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: And not only that, but if you include jail along 656 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: with prison, Um, the number of people behind bars in 657 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: the US, and I think this is pretty accurate right now, 658 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: is about two point two million. Yeah, that was that 659 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: was the latest I could find. I think it was 660 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 1: in an article from one So that's pretty pretty accurate. 661 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 1: And it's just did you say it's quintupled since no, 662 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: but that's a pretty staggering number. You should see a 663 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: graph of it. It's just shoots up starting in like 664 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,839 Speaker 1: like starting around the nineteen eighties. Crazy enough. I can't 665 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 1: quite put my finger on why that would have happened, 666 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: but it just goes through the roof, right U. And 667 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: of course this is no surprise, I suspect, even to 668 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: people who don't want critical race theory taught in schools. 669 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: But if you are of color, or if you are UM, 670 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: l G B, t q UH, if you are transgender 671 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,839 Speaker 1: although I said tea in there, didn't I, if you 672 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 1: UM have mental illness, you're way more at risk of 673 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,800 Speaker 1: being incarcerated than somebody who doesn't check those same boxes. 674 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 1: And UM, in America, black men are six times more 675 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,879 Speaker 1: likely to be incarcerated than white men, and Hispanic men 676 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: or two and a half times more likely to be 677 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,240 Speaker 1: incarcerated than white men. And so it kind of starts 678 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,320 Speaker 1: to become clear, especially when you realize that UM having 679 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: a criminal record is a big driver of poverty. That 680 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 1: this is that's disproportionately affecting communities of color and other minorities, UM, 681 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,760 Speaker 1: which makes it so much easier for society at large 682 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: to just ignore this problem. Yeah, for sure, I mean 683 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,720 Speaker 1: the obstacles in your way. It's not just getting a job, 684 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: it's building credit, it's getting housing, any kind of public assistance, education, um, 685 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: getting back together with your family. UM. It's it really 686 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: creates sort of a wall around you and the rest 687 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 1: of the world, even if you were trying to get 688 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 1: back into society and be a good citizen and you 689 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,240 Speaker 1: want that job. I think more than six of people 690 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,280 Speaker 1: who are formally incarcerated are unemployed a year after being released. 691 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: And that's like an open invitation to recidivism. Trying to yeah, 692 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 1: I mean not trying to excuse saying, oh, right, well, 693 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: you should just go out and commit crimes. Then if 694 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: you can't get a job, We're not saying that at all, 695 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 1: but it's certainly a barrier if you can't get a 696 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: job and you're trying to reintegrate into society and sixty 697 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: of them a year later can't get those jobs. And 698 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: then if you do get a job, those who do 699 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: have the jobs, you're getting less pay annually. UM. And 700 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:45,760 Speaker 1: you know, I guess over the years you can build 701 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: that back up, and it's good that they get that 702 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:51,399 Speaker 1: one job at least, But there's an imbalance here, uh, 703 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 1: in this country as far as trying to genuinely rehabilitate people. 704 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: And that doesn't just mean well, you got out of 705 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,919 Speaker 1: jail or you got out of prison, and we feel 706 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: like you're a pretty good person now and you're on 707 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: your own good luck like getting a job or getting 708 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: housing or anything like that. Right. So there, UM, and 709 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: even if you're the kind of person who's like I 710 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: only vote on the economy, that's all I care about, 711 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,720 Speaker 1: there's actually something here for you too to be interested 712 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:21,320 Speaker 1: in in um, making criminal records less of a lifetime stigma. UM. 713 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,760 Speaker 1: They found that there was a Center for Economic Policy 714 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 1: and Research study from two sixteen. They looked at two 715 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, just to confuse things a little bit, and 716 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,479 Speaker 1: they said that, UM, the people who are shut out 717 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: of legitimate work due to having a criminal records represents 718 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 1: an overall reduction in the American workforce by point nine 719 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: to one percent of the workforce, which is something like 720 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 1: one point seven to one point nine million people. And 721 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,840 Speaker 1: they concluded that that means that the gross domestic product 722 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: lost out that year, just in that year on between 723 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,800 Speaker 1: seventy eight and eight se than billion dollars just because 724 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: these people have been shut out of work just because 725 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 1: they had a criminal record in some cases for an 726 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,240 Speaker 1: arrest that they weren't even convicted for, and that that 727 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: that that is a big problem, and it's also a 728 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: problem for employers too, and that if you just go 729 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: by criminal records, because you're legally allowed to, if you 730 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: just say you've got a criminal record, we're not gonna 731 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: hire you. Some some UM companies even advertise that like basically, 732 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,280 Speaker 1: if you have a criminal record, you need not apply. 733 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: They're they're they're saying that that in some cases or 734 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: that sets the company up to go hire a less 735 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:43,360 Speaker 1: qualified and possibly less competent candidate UM who doesn't have 736 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: a criminal record. So the whole point, the whole push 737 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,239 Speaker 1: to all this is like, Okay, there's nobody, including me, 738 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,240 Speaker 1: who's saying we should do a way with criminal records. 739 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 1: There are indeed very bad people out there in the world. 740 00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,800 Speaker 1: They do exist, right, But there's also in this dragnet 741 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 1: that we create to catch as many people as of 742 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,360 Speaker 1: those bad people as possible. Other people who aren't necessarily bad, 743 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: or maybe even we're bad once and aren't bad anymore, 744 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 1: get caught up in that. And that there are things 745 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,040 Speaker 1: we can do without doing away with the criminal record system. 746 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: And one of the big ones seems to be like 747 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 1: putting a finite time on that, like after you've kept 748 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,399 Speaker 1: your nose clean next number of years, Like maybe these 749 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: things should just get sealed automatically. Um, That's that's a 750 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 1: really big one. Another one is looking at employers and 751 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 1: being like, we don't really know if you should be 752 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 1: asking about this for some professions, Like some professions it 753 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: doesn't really matter, Like if you're Starbucks, does it matter 754 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 1: that that this person had an arrest? You know, exactly 755 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 1: should they really be denied a job? And so there's 756 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,239 Speaker 1: some laws that are called banned the box laws that 757 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: people have been thinking of. Yeah, those boxes is like 758 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 1: you were kind of talking about earlier. When you fill 759 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,279 Speaker 1: out applications for jobs, there's always that little box says 760 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 1: have you been convicted of a crime. It's also called 761 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: fair chance legislation in some states, and it's basically what 762 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: we've been talking about is, you know, maybe you should 763 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,799 Speaker 1: at least have a limit on what you can ask 764 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: in that initial interview. Maybe you should have a time 765 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 1: limit on how far back into somebody's past you can dig. Uh, 766 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: maybe in the application process it's at least, um, there 767 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: is a place spelled out where you may be allowed 768 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,440 Speaker 1: to ask that if it's the kind of job that 769 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: you should ask that. Yeah, because there definitely are jobs 770 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: like that, like were ones that work with vulnerable populations 771 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,640 Speaker 1: like the elderly or and they cut those out of 772 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 1: this legislation. You know, you can't get a job working 773 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,799 Speaker 1: with kids or something like you said in a in 774 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 1: a nursing home or something like that. But I mean, 775 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 1: you know, there's like if you need to be a 776 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,400 Speaker 1: barber or something like that, like do you have to 777 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 1: have a clean record, and you don't necessarily, And actually 778 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,120 Speaker 1: barber is one of the problem um professions because you 779 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: need a license to be a barber, which we're going 780 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 1: to do short stuff about that. Somebody wrote in wants 781 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,320 Speaker 1: to tell us, like we should look into that. Um. 782 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: But in any any profession, almost any profession that requires 783 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,920 Speaker 1: a license, and there's a lot of them, and barber 784 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 1: is one of them, that licensing board will almost always 785 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 1: say if you have a criminal record, you're you're you 786 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: don't qualify, So you can't get that job. Despite being 787 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,760 Speaker 1: born wanting to be a barber. Yeah, some one mistake, 788 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 1: you're you're out. I can't do it by cutting heads. 789 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, that's different, different kind of cutting heads. 790 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 1: In that case, you got anything else? I got nothing else? 791 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 1: A good one, Chuck, I like this one. Will we 792 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,440 Speaker 1: do it in ten more years of unless there's been 793 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,280 Speaker 1: some real reform. Yeah, we got a chance to soapbox 794 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:48,239 Speaker 1: it a little bit. Um. Well, if you want to 795 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: know more about criminal records and criminal record reform in particularly, 796 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,880 Speaker 1: to start reading about it on the internet. Um or 797 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 1: turn to two other of your friends, because there's a 798 00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,680 Speaker 1: really good chance that one of them is a criminal 799 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 1: record and they might tell you that things have been 800 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 1: kind of hard because of it. And you can trite 801 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,680 Speaker 1: a story. And since I said you can hear the story, 802 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:11,600 Speaker 1: it's time for listener mail. Uh. This is I'm gonna 803 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 1: call this m r I follow up from a professional. 804 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: It's always good to hear from the pros that say 805 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,080 Speaker 1: we did a decent job. It's never a great job, 806 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,279 Speaker 1: but I'll take decent. I'll take decent too, when we're 807 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 1: explaining things like m R I. Uh, let me see here. Hey, guys, 808 00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,880 Speaker 1: big fan, longtime listener listen on a daily basis. I'm 809 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:33,880 Speaker 1: an m R I radiographer or radio graphic technologists in 810 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 1: your country, and I work with m r I s 811 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,880 Speaker 1: every day. I wanted to commend you on the accuracy. Overall, 812 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 1: the m r I physics can be confusing, if not 813 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,120 Speaker 1: near impossible to understand, especially to someone who doesn't have 814 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,120 Speaker 1: experience in the field. I myself went to university for 815 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 1: three years to become a radiographer. You gave a really 816 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,719 Speaker 1: good summary of the physics involved, so hats off. A 817 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,840 Speaker 1: couple of things to add. It's true that a lower 818 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,360 Speaker 1: power magnet can produce decent images comparable to a higher 819 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: strength magnet it but you usually do so with a 820 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 1: trade off of an extended scan time. What takes me 821 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,520 Speaker 1: ten minutes on my three Tesla machine might take twenty 822 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,279 Speaker 1: and at one point five, and as you rightly said, 823 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 1: you have to stay completely still because if you don't, 824 00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 1: it'll be blurry and then you have to repeat the scans. 825 00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,680 Speaker 1: I drive a three Tesla machine, which is the highest 826 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,399 Speaker 1: strength magnet widely available for clinical use. Seven Tesla MRI 827 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,480 Speaker 1: machines have been approved by the FDA for clinical use, 828 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,840 Speaker 1: and tin Tesla machines you're referring to our for research 829 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,080 Speaker 1: purposes only and have some interesting effects, such as being 830 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:37,600 Speaker 1: able to levitate a frog awesome or causing the mercury 831 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,760 Speaker 1: and dental feelings to leach out. Oh my god, man 832 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,880 Speaker 1: uh And then Russell here in Sydney, Australia goes on 833 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,359 Speaker 1: to say point out that I got a CT scan 834 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:55,080 Speaker 1: for the diverticuli search, not an m R I. So 835 00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,120 Speaker 1: that makes sense. I was not an m R I. 836 00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,239 Speaker 1: So have you had an m R I? Then I have. 837 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 1: And again it was years ago. And I want to 838 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 1: say it was my back, which is now fine, but 839 00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,440 Speaker 1: I think it was a back deal. I'm glad your 840 00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:14,919 Speaker 1: back is fine. It's been fine. I mean I knew 841 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: it was. You complain, Yeah, but there was a big 842 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 1: that your back is fine, that you have a nice beard. 843 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,840 Speaker 1: You know what. There was a brief time where I 844 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 1: had some back issues, but it was pretty brief. It 845 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,080 Speaker 1: was a few months. I think. Gotcha, Well, is that it? 846 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,840 Speaker 1: That's it? It was from Did I say? That is 847 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:40,520 Speaker 1: from Russell in Sydney? Russell? You can use my name 848 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,440 Speaker 1: in Sydney. That's awesome. Thanks, Russell. You can use my 849 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: name in Sydney. That's a great name. Very odd one, 850 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,439 Speaker 1: but good. Um. And I really feel like we need 851 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 1: to put more cadavers into ten Tesla m r I's 852 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,200 Speaker 1: and watch the Mercury come out because that must be amazing. 853 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,439 Speaker 1: If you want to get into the video, yeah me too. 854 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,279 Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with this, like 855 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: Russell did, we love hearing from experts who say we 856 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 1: did a so so job. You can send us an 857 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:15,600 Speaker 1: email to Stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff 858 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,600 Speaker 1: you Should Know is a production of I heart Radio. 859 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,239 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 860 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,360 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.