1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's me Josh, and for this week's select, 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,119 Speaker 1: I've chosen a two parter one of the most baffling 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: true crime mysteries ever to hit America, the Thailand All Murders. Uh. 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: In part one, which you're about to hear now, we 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: introduced the murders, the senseless deaths, and the panic that 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: gripped America. And then you'll hear from me again for 7 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: part two. So in the meantime, enjoy part one and 8 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:33,599 Speaker 1: I'll see you soon. Welcome to Stuff you should Know, 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to 10 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. There's Josh, not me, Chuck. 11 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: Guest producer Josh is back in the house. Yeah, and 12 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: there's a little Chuck in your pockets, Remember little Elvis. 13 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: I was just about to say that you got that right, 14 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: Tony Oh Man, what a great sketch it really was. 15 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: That was Nicholas Kane, wasn't it. Yeah? Man, did you 16 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: ever see Mandy? Yes? It was terrible. I don't care 17 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: what anybody else says. You hate it. Terrible, terrible movie. Yeah, 18 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: Nolan I talked about it on movie Crush. He's seen 19 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: it like four times thinks it's the best thing ever. 20 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: And he was like, people the love it, I hate it. 21 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: And I was like, actually, I was kind of in 22 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: the middle. Were you really Yeah? I mean I told 23 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: him young Chuck, like twenty two year old college Chuck 24 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: would have probably liked it a lot more. But today 25 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: Chuck was kind of like, I get it. Like, sure, 26 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: parts of it, we're fine. Sure to me. Spending an 27 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: hour doing character development but not successfully making you care 28 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: about the characters, it just really irked me. Wow, you 29 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: had structural issues. Yeah, that was really the big thing. 30 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: I also thought Lenis Roach was very very odd for casting. 31 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: But which one was the main bad guy? That that 32 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: was weird, very weird. I don't even know him, but 33 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: it's from Law and Order and like some other stuff, 34 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: you gotta get into law. See how much you're missing 35 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: out on that's becoming a bit. So did we start 36 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: recording yet? I think so? Oh, I already welcomed everybody 37 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: the podcast. Um so, Chuck, we are this is some 38 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: true crime stuff. For getting into here, that's right, But 39 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: I feel like we need to set the tone right 40 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: because this isn't just didn't happened just yesterday. This happened 41 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: way back in two in Chicago, Illinois. And I remember 42 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 1: this and I was like six at the time. It 43 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: was one of my favorite years because of this, the 44 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: opposite of that, right, mainly because of movies that was 45 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: so great about two look it up? Man, Well, I 46 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: was kind of hoping, Oh yeah, okay, yeah, that was 47 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: Do you know I didn't see Blade Runner until I 48 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: was forty That's not true. Yes, the original, the original 49 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: Blade Runner. Did you like it? It was good. I 50 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: like the second one too, You're like, but they spent 51 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: way too much time on characters. Um. Yeah. And I 52 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: just did a little poking around about two and it 53 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: was It was a good year for an eleven year old, 54 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: but it was an uneasy time in America. Uh well 55 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 1: for a bunch of awful things happened that year. Uh 56 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: And I don't know if it was any more or 57 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: less than other years, but uh, air Flight nine D 58 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: crashed into into the Potomac River, remember that in Washington, 59 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: d C. The plane crash in the river. Didn't hit 60 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: a bridge, maybe, but there was there was like a 61 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,839 Speaker 1: daring icy river rescue. Yeah. Seventy eight people died though. 62 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: That same day, a metro train in d c derailed 63 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: killed three people. Uh. February was when Wayne Williams was convicted, 64 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: and that was just the end of a lot of honeys, 65 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: you know, for years. Uh, Klaus Vambu Law was found 66 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: guilty of attempted murder of his wife in March. I 67 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: didn't make it to the end of reversal of fortune, 68 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: so I honestly didn't know what happened to class guilty. Uh. 69 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: In June was the murder of Vincent Chen, who was 70 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: a Chinese American who was beaten to death by two 71 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: men in Michigan thinking he was a Japanese and they 72 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: were like stealing his their auto work. I know, right, Uh. 73 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: And then July nine, pan Am flight seven nine goes 74 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,559 Speaker 1: down in Louisiana, Louisiana kills all one forty six people 75 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: on board, plus eight more on the ground. And then 76 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: in September, early September was when I know, man, remember 77 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: planes used to just crash a lot. Yeah that never 78 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: happens now, Uh, not as much. But yeah, weird that 79 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: we're recording this in the midst of more plane gradges. 80 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: And then early September was when that paper boy in Iowa, 81 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: Iowa was kidnapped and never seen again. Johnny Gosh, I 82 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: don't know that that was a big deal too, because 83 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: it was you know, the paper boy, and there was 84 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: this false story about a pedophile ring from politicians and 85 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: that turned out not to be true, but he was 86 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: never found again. So basically everything that's going on today 87 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: is just a rehash of two It sounds like I 88 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: just remember being about that age, and they're just the 89 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: nightly news sort of just being a horror show and 90 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: not politically speaking, you know, like real bad incidents is occurring. Well, yeah, 91 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: plane crash like just about at any age, like that'll 92 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: that'll bring you down if you see that on the 93 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: news for sure. Yeah, um, because you know when you 94 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: get on a plane, you think maybe this plane will 95 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: go down while I'm want it and that would be terrible. 96 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: Although I wasn't flying at eleven. So all of those 97 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: things you just mentioned sweep them totally off the table, 98 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: because come the end of September of that year, nothing 99 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: else mattered but what we're about to talk about now, 100 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: that's right, nothing nothing came close to taking the over 101 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: the national psyche like the deaths of seven people beginning 102 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: on September two in Chicago, Illinois. Yeah. And one of 103 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: the articles I read about this, I mean, are we 104 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: trying to keep it a secret? It's a show title, 105 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: right yeah, yeah yeah, I think they're gonna have to 106 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: figure it out. So yeah, go ahead, the thailan All murders. Yeah, okay, 107 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 1: you're like, oh no, no, but that's that comes up 108 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,679 Speaker 1: in part two. Oh yeah, this is a two parter 109 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: ye as well, so Buckle and everybody. Uh So. I 110 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: was doing some research though, and I saw one article 111 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: that said something about, you know, the first domestic terror 112 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: incident United States that nobody has ever heard of. It's like, what, 113 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: who hasn't heard of this? A millennial wrote that headline. Well, 114 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: I have to say Josh on the way in here, yeah, 115 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 1: I told him Tailttle murders and huh he goes, what's 116 00:06:54,760 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: the title? And all you old kadr, we should say 117 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: what Thailand all is? Huh Okay, yeah, I guess just 118 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: in case you are a MILLENNI only you've never heard 119 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: of Thailand all, but Thailand all was and still is 120 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: and over the counter pain reliever. It's like you have 121 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: eggs and pains and apparently, what's crazy? People would take 122 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: thaile and all whatever was wrong with them, because now 123 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: you can go get like you know, aspirin and um 124 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: aadville and and a leave. There was no leave back then. 125 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: That was the nineties drug There's way more over the 126 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: counter pain relievers now than they we're back then. Back then, 127 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: Thailand All was basically it. Yeah, it's a set of menafin, 128 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: which is different than aspirin, and I think a lot 129 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: of people just think those are interchangeable. Right. The reason 130 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: I believe Thailand All became so big is because aspirin 131 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: upsets a lot of people's stomachs. Thailand All does not, 132 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: or it's not supposed to, and that's why it came 133 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: out of nowhere and just took over the aspirin market. 134 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: I think by two thailand All had thirty seven of 135 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: the market. It's pretty good cornered. Yeah, yeah, almost half, 136 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: especially since like some of the other like aspirants have 137 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: been around since you know, nineteenth century, right, So it 138 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: makes sense then that when a little girl named Mary 139 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: Anne kellerman Uh complained that she had a sore throat 140 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: and wasn't feeling too good at like seven am on Wednesday, September, 141 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: her parents said, just take an extra strength title and 142 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: all and go back to bed man for sore throat. 143 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: You imagine the guilt. Oh no, these parents feel well, 144 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 1: don't blow it. We haven't said what happens to Marianne 145 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: Kellerman yet. I think everybody knows. Uh. Yeah, she got up, 146 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: said I'm sick. He said, take this. The father said 147 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: he heard her go into the bathroom and close the door, 148 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: then heard something drop and went to the door, saying, 149 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: are you okay, you're okay? Uh? No answer, opened the 150 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: door and there she is on the floor. Um. Taken 151 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: to the hospital, but died very quickly. Yeah, probably was 152 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: dead when she went to the hospital. Was pronounced there 153 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: um and she they suspected this is just a little 154 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: twelve year old girl of middle school, girl into Jane 155 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: Adams Middle School. Um. She they think she died of 156 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: a stroke. That's what they thought happened to her. They 157 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: were just so baffled that they're like, it had to 158 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: have been a stroke. That's the only thing that can 159 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: come on like this. Yeah. So that's seven am. Just 160 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: the day is just beginning, and one atrocity has already happened. Yeah, 161 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: this is a this is a very bad day in 162 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: the history of Chicago. September. Yeah, absolutely, and it started 163 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: early Adam Janice, who uh will detail his story, but 164 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: put a pin in this one too, because he figures 165 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: in even more prominently in a minute. But a little 166 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: bit later that same morning, Uh, this gentleman, Adam Janese's 167 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: twenty seven years old and lived in Arlington Heights, another 168 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: Chicago suburb, and he died. Uh, and they think that 169 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: this is a heart attack. Uh. He complained of chess 170 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: pains after he had driven his daughter's neighbor home from school. 171 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: Uh said, I'm gonna take the day off, comes home, 172 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 1: eats a little lunch, takes two extra strength tile and 173 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: all that he bought from a local drug store, collapses 174 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: in front of his wife, and by you know, a 175 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: few minutes later, when the paramedics arrived, he was dead right. 176 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: And again, like you said, they said heart attack because 177 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: he's been complaining of chess pains, which had nothing to 178 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: do with it. But just like Marianne Kellerman took an 179 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: extra strength tile and all for a sore throat, he 180 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 1: took some extra strength tile and all for some chest pains. 181 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: This is just what people did back then. Yeah, and 182 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: that's what complicated it a little bit. At first, Um 183 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:41,599 Speaker 1: was that you know, if you take the tile and 184 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: all it means you felt bad already, So obviously you 185 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: know they're gonna be saying like, wait a minute, chess 186 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: pains or some throat like, how does that figure in? Yeah, 187 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: and it didn't. Plus, Also, what made this even more 188 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: baffling is that Marianne Kellerman was twelve and healthy. Adam 189 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: Janis was twenty seven and healthy, and all of a 190 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: sudden they just dropped up. People just dropped dead. No 191 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: matter what you see on TV or in the movies 192 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: or whatever, dropping dead inexplicably is a really bizarre thing. 193 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: When you're a healthy person, that just doesn't happen. Uh. 194 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: Next we have Mary Reiner, same day, same day. This 195 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: is still all on the same day. Um, she's twenty 196 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: seven years old. She's feeling a little dizzy. She had 197 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: just come home from the hospital, uh, after having given 198 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: birth to her fourth kid a couple of days before. 199 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: Super super sad. All of these are, obviously, but being 200 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: a just a brand new mom for the fourth time, 201 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: it's just so tragic. Uh. And then by three five 202 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: she was so ill she was rushed back to the 203 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: hospital and again died, very very quickly. Yeah, and like 204 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: Adam Janis collapsed in front of his wife, she collapsed 205 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: in front of her young eight year old daughter. One 206 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: of her children sare um and yeah. When she was 207 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: taking the hospital, they pronounced her dead as well. This 208 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: is mid afternoon. Mary mcfar Marland was up next. She 209 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: was over in um the suburb of Lombard, and she 210 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: worked at the Illinois Bell Phone Center where you remember, 211 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: like you go get your phone, like the rotary phone, 212 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: you know, you would actually lease your phone. I wasn't 213 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: involved in that process, but we had them in our home, okay, 214 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: well your parents that stuff. No, there was like a 215 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,719 Speaker 1: store where you would go it's like the phone company's 216 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: retail store, and you would go and be like that 217 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: pink one. It's like smartphones today, kind of same model. 218 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: Kind of Um, yeah, I guess so. But this was 219 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 1: with a big, clunky rotary phone and you had to 220 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: pay extra for the extra long court. Well. Mary McFarlane 221 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 1: worked in one of these stores, and at about four 222 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: o'clock UM at the Illinois Bell Phone Center, she was 223 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: she had a massive headache that just came on out 224 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 1: of nowhere, and she went back and got some extra 225 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: strength tilent all out of her purse, took a couple 226 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: of them, and within minutes collapsed in the door. Yeah 227 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: she was young as well. She was thirty one years old, 228 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: mother of two. And then remember I was talking about 229 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: Adam Janice a few minutes ago. Um, his family goes 230 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: to the hospital. Obviously, everyone converges there, he passes away, 231 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: and so the family makes their way home UM to 232 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: begin morning and just sort of trying to reconcile what 233 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: had just happened. His brother, Stanley, he was only twenty, 234 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: and then his wife Teresa, who was only nineteen, are 235 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: both just overcome and worn out and have headaches. So 236 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: they're at Adam's house. They got his medicine cabinet, get 237 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: out the tile on all that he took completely unknowingly obviously, 238 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: and uh, Stanley hits the ground. Foam comes from his mouth, 239 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: his eyes rolled back in his head. Everyone's freaking out, 240 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 1: and a few minutes later, his wife collapses and they 241 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: called the ambulance. By the time and the ambulances get there, 242 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: I think Stanley died that day and Teresa somehow managed 243 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: to live a couple of days. Yeah, she hung on. 244 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: And I don't know if like her dose is lesser 245 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: or what. But but she she survived for a couple 246 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: of days after that. Yeah, I mean my guess is that, uh, 247 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: there just wasn't as much cyanide and the capsule she took. 248 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: Did I just give something else away? But the so 249 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: Stanley took his tail in all first, and then Teresa's occurs, 250 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: and one of the paramedics noted, like Teresa was the 251 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: one that called the ambulance out to come out for Stanley. 252 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: And when you get there, they're they're both like on 253 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: the ground and they're like, what's going on? And one 254 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: of the paramedics said, everything that was happening to the 255 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: guy happened to the woman like a couple of minutes later, 256 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: like she was just following him through this process of 257 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: like basically systemic organ failure. And this is the same 258 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: day that his brother had passed away. Yep. This is 259 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: about five six hours, six hours after Adam Janis had died. 260 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: Then finally, I know this is all tough to go through. Everyone. 261 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: We almost selected this as our next live show. I'm 262 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: really glad we did, because, I mean, can you imagine 263 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: trying to liven this up with some jokes? I saw it. 264 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: The whole time I was like, no, we can do that. 265 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, the more I got into it, I was like, yeah, 266 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: it's probably not good live material. We should have a 267 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: rule of thumb that any story that begins with the 268 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: death of a twelve year old girl probably not live 269 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: show material. I think you're right. So finally we have 270 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: Paula Prince. Paula Jeene Prince. This is a couple of 271 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: days later. This is not the same day. This is 272 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: on Friday evening. She was a thirty five year old 273 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: flight attendant and she was found dead in her apartment 274 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: after police responded for a welfare check that her sister 275 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: called in saying, hey, you know, I know she's a 276 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: flight attendant and all, but no one knows where she is. 277 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: Can you go check on her welfare check up? And 278 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: they finally found her and she was gone, very very sad. 279 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: She was found in her bathroom with a bottle of 280 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: extra strength Title and all still open on the counter 281 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: and she uh They look into um her receipts and 282 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: found that she had purchased it on Wednesday, September that's right. 283 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: Uh So, at the end of this very short span 284 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: of time in the Chicago area. We have seven people dead, 285 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: and I feel like that's a good time to take 286 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: a message break. Yeah, yeah, all right, stop you know, stop, okay, Chuck, 287 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: So you said cyanide. How did you know that? Because 288 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: I was eleven years old and I watch the nightly 289 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: news like all eleven year old stad just called it 290 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: just me and broke aw Dan Rather, yeah, Copple, who else? 291 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: That was it? Peter Jennings He came a little later, 292 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: but sure, yeah, yeah, he came after somebody. Well, I 293 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: mean Cronkite wasn't still around, was he? Or was he? 294 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think so. I was I 295 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: was going to be into the news as a kid 296 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: a little bit. Well, yeah, I mean that was that 297 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: was where you got your news back then. Yeah, you 298 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: would watch the evening news. It's very strange to think 299 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: about now, with the with the up to the minute 300 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: news cycle. So oh yeah, I know how much more 301 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: innocent things were back then. Um, So remove yourself from 302 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: the benefit of hindsight or the benefit of Dan Rather's insight, 303 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: and put yourself in the shoes of the people in Chicago. Right, 304 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: these are five These are seven different deaths. Um, I 305 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 1: think from five different townships in the greater Chicago area, 306 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: including Chicago. Paula Prince, the last person to die, lived 307 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: in Chicago. These people aren't talking. These people have no 308 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: idea what's going on. It's just that there were five 309 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: seven separate baffling deaths. If you want to if you 310 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: were people to be dead, yeah I do. That's good. 311 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 1: My voices aren't working though. Um. It just so happens 312 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: that the ambulance paramedics that showed up to attend to 313 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: marry Mary Anne Kellerman, the first girl to die. Um, 314 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: they were just logging everything because it was such a 315 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: baffling thing, and they logged her tile and all, yeah 316 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: logged isn't collected, right, Yeah, took it as evidence to 317 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: maybe look into who knows, But they took the extra 318 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: strength tile and all that she had taken, not thinking 319 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: anything of it, but just basically throwing anything at the 320 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: wall to see what stopped. Yeah, I'm sure the dad 321 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: was like, you know, she went in, took some tile 322 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: and on and dropped dead. So it probably made sense, 323 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: even though it's just Thailand all to say like, well, hey, 324 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: let's at least take this in yes, and that title 325 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: and all that, right, you know, because that bottle of 326 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: tile and All made its way into the hands of 327 00:18:55,040 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: a medical examiner um whose name was Michael Schaefer, and 328 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: Michael Schafer tested the tile in All it was rather 329 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: surprised to find that some of the capsules had not 330 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 1: tile in all in it, but sixty five milligrams of 331 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: potassium cyanide. And it takes about fifty milligrams to kill 332 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 1: a healthy adult. Yeah, I mean some of them. I 333 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: don't think they were all exactly the same, but some 334 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: of them had been completely emptied of any staminafin and 335 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 1: completely filled with cyanide. With cyanide right, yeah, I mean 336 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: it was it was someone intent on for sure killing people. Yes, 337 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: because cyanide is no joke. It's a it's a really 338 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: really small molecule um and it normally attaches to metals 339 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 1: outside of the body, which is why you have or 340 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: minerals I guess, which why you have potassium cyanide um 341 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: when it goes into the body when you ingested, however 342 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: you ingested, whether it's from a tile in all capsule 343 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: or breathing cyanide gas like they used to use to 344 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: execute people with. Like they stopped using it for execution 345 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: because it was such a brutal death. Yeah, it's very cruel, 346 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: painful way to die. Um in the body. It detaches 347 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: from its its mineral or metal, and it attaches to 348 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: a protein in the body called UM cytochrome c oxidase, 349 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 1: which doesn't sound like could be a big problem, but 350 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: it turns out that that's about the worst protein that 351 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: cyanide could attach itself too, because we really need cytochrome 352 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 1: c oxidase to breathe. Yeah, basically it I mean, this 353 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: sounds like such a cruel thing because it's just rapid 354 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: cell death and it's not like your throat closes up 355 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: and you can't breathe, like you're inhaling oxygen and you 356 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: you are technically taking breaths, but the oxygen is not 357 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: getting in the cells. No, it's not because that c 358 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: or that cytochrome c oxidase is what helps transport the 359 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: oxygen and get and allows the oxygen to be used 360 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: for energy. So if the potassium is clinging to it, 361 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 1: the oxygen can't. It just stays in the bloodstream and 362 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,959 Speaker 1: it doesn't get used by the cells. And since your 363 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 1: central nervous system is the most oxygen hungry system in 364 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: your entire body. It starts to shut down first, and 365 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: when your brain and your spinal cords starts shutting down, 366 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: all sorts of things happen. Your long start shutting down. 367 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: Your heart, God bless it keeps beating for minutes after 368 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: the rest of your body is shut down. Can So 369 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: you're not technically dead. And they're not sure exactly how 370 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: long the pain and excruciation of dying from cyanide lasts, 371 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: but they think you're probably conscious in a way and 372 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: freaked out for about a minute at least, and your 373 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: heart may continue beating for three or four minutes after that. 374 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: So it's not a pleasant death at all. No. I mean, 375 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: you're you're gasping for air, You're breathing in air. Nothing's happening, 376 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: Like I said, um Stanley Janice. He was foaming at 377 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: the mouth and his eyes rolled back in his head 378 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 1: in front of his family. It's just like it's awful, 379 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: like writhing on the floor, gasping for air. You're breathing, 380 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: but it's not doing anything. It's just I can't imagine 381 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: anything more horrifying, right, because your central nervous system has 382 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: kind of falling out of its um, out of controller 383 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: rhythm convulsions are usually a hallmark of cyanide poisoning. And 384 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: then you turn bright red at the end of it. Yeah, 385 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: sin a chair, you read, they said, Because when your 386 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: body has gotten rid of oxygen to your cells and 387 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 1: the oxygen becomes depleted, um, your your skin kind of 388 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: turns like a rusty brownish red. But because it can 389 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: unload that oxygen when you're dead, it stays a bright red. 390 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: And your skin turns bright red. And then the other 391 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: real telltale sign is your breath will smell a bit 392 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: like almonds. Yeah, I mean not a bit. I mean 393 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: these bottles supposedly were really pungent with bitter almond, And 394 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: unless you know what that means, then you're probably not 395 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: clued in, you know, Like I wouldn't I wouldn't have known. 396 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: I open the bottle of Thailand on it smelled like 397 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: better almen would probably be like, h right, it's a 398 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: nice smell. Actually, yeah, I like this tail and all. Yeah, 399 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: I guess they have a new almond flavor. Awful. So 400 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: Michael Schaefer, that medical examiner has just realized that this 401 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 1: this little girl has been poisoned, but he he knows 402 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: nothing about these other deaths. There's nothing like that. Um 403 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: It's not entirely clear how everything became connected or who 404 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: connected it. But what I find just particularly astonishing is 405 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 1: that within just a few hours, by that evening, by 406 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: the evening of September twenty nine, people were saying, there's 407 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: something up with the Thailand all in these mysterious deaths 408 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: that have been going on all around Chicago. Yeah and not. 409 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 1: I mean, we'll get into the dragnet they cast. But 410 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 1: within a few days they had kind of solved everything. 411 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: But who did it and how it may have happened? 412 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: Who done it? Who done it? Um? So yeah, very 413 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: quickly they figured out the Thailand. On. There are a 414 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 1: couple of different stories, um on, Like you said, on 415 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: who who was the first person to point this out? Um? 416 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: One story is that a reporter for the City News 417 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: Bureau in Chicago was doing the reporter thing and doing 418 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: some deep diving and investigating and called up a deputy 419 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: corner and said, hey, I think this is what's happening. 420 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: They told the police. Another story is that too, people 421 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: who didn't know each other kind of came together independently 422 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: to um let people know. One was a fire captain 423 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: name Philip Capitelli. I knew it. I knew you were 424 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: going to do that. There was like a chance, you 425 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: know why, because we got a lot of support from 426 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: people that wrote in saying I'm Italian and I love it. 427 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: Keep doing it. And only one guy who hated it. 428 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: But ironically it was fire Captain Philip Capitelli and said 429 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: so he uh, here here was his deal. His um 430 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: his mother in law was friends with Mary Kellerman, the 431 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,880 Speaker 1: victim's mother, the first of the little girl, and she said, hey, 432 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: would you mind looking into this because I'm friends with 433 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 1: this little girl's mom and it's weird that she dropped 434 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: at at and he's a fire captain and they're all 435 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: connected to you know, the police, into the medical community. 436 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 1: Everybody knows you want something done, ask a fire captain, um, 437 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: because they'll bust into the room with an ax get 438 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 1: everybody's attention. UM. So he's he's investigating. And then there's this, Uh, 439 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: there's a nurse named Helen Jensen and she I don't 440 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: do you know why she was so into this case? 441 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: Was no, no, no. She was the public health nurse 442 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,679 Speaker 1: for Cook County, I believe, Okay, so she had an 443 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: official designation to investigate. Yes, but unfortunately no one would 444 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: listen to her because this is n two and she 445 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 1: was a nurse. Even though she was like a public 446 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,479 Speaker 1: health director, she was still a nurse and people wouldn't 447 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: listen to her. And she recalled in an oral history 448 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: I read about this that she was stomping her feet 449 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: out of frustration, saying like, there's something wrong with the 450 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: taile and all, like the tail and all is behind 451 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: all this, and people wouldn't listen to her. Supposedly, she 452 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: and Philip got together and um joined forces, and I 453 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 1: guess we're able to convince everybody that no, there's something 454 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: wrong with the with the taile and all. And by 455 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: this time people started talking and you know, the the 456 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: idea that Michael Shaffer had identified tail and all. I 457 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,919 Speaker 1: don't know if it was the same day or the 458 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: day after something like that, but all this is within 459 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: a span of thirty six forty eight hours. TOPS said, 460 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: all of this is going on, that the dots are 461 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: being connected, right, So, uh, then what follows is um 462 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: Cook County's Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Dr. Edmund Donohue holds 463 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: a pressor. I've either watched this one or one of 464 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: the other ones, Like I remember specifically seeing this press 465 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: conference on the news, probably saw Jane Burns. That would 466 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: have been the national wide when I guess yeah, And 467 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: I was like, how would that have been nationwide? And 468 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: then I looked it up. W g N was a 469 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: superstation starting in night. Oh you know it, man, So 470 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: everybody saw it because wg N could broadcast nationwide. By 471 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: I watched Cubs games Kid just because it was on. 472 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: That was it like that embraced games were all you 473 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: can So Dr Donohue Um has a pressor a local 474 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: pressor Um, of course there is panic initially. Yeah, he 475 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: scares the s out of everybody because he comes out 476 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: of nowhere and says stop taking the tile and all. 477 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah sure, and so anyone, I mean, imagine how 478 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: many people in Chicago had taken tile and all within 479 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: two hours of that press conference and are thinking like 480 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 1: should I go to the hospital? Right And as a 481 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,640 Speaker 1: matter of fact, Um, the poison control lines for basically 482 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: every in every city where somebody saw this started to 483 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: light up right after that, and people are like, I 484 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: just took tile in all my k or gave my kid. 485 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: Can you imagine? And the the what came to be. 486 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: The pat response was, if you are still standing and 487 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: talking to us, you're probably okay, which is sort of 488 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: a double edged sword, right, It's like, don't worry, you 489 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: die super fast kind of so just relax. So just 490 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 1: hold the line for five minutes and then I'm gonna 491 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: come back and check on you. And if you're still talking, 492 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: you're fine. Oh man, um, alright, So then the Chicago 493 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: Mayor's office gets involved, Like you said, Mayor Jane Byrne, 494 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: she gets says, you know, print a bunch of flyers, 495 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,719 Speaker 1: print them in a bunch of languages, maybe on Golden 496 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,120 Speaker 1: Rod and corn flower blue. Sure, why not really catch 497 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: people's attention? Uh? That she had police drive through um 498 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: with loudspeakers on their car, basically saying like, don't take 499 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: tile in all, re enacting that scene from The Blues Brothers. 500 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: Whether I was thinking Slacker and that's funny, two different movies. 501 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: But do you remember they're driving through in the police 502 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: carver with the loudspeaker talking about their their show. Yeah, 503 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: same as like her, I don't remember, I don't. I 504 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: guess I didn't make either. The end of slack Er either. 505 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: It was in the middle ish there was no, dazed 506 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: and confused. H oh, just different movies. Um, so they're 507 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: they're posting flyers, cops are driving around blaring it through 508 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: neighborhoods uh. And then she has a press conference, she 509 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: has all Thailand all removed from the Chicago area. She 510 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: calls for it. Well, sure she didn't go around with 511 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: her her basket, right, No, I'm not a hundred percent 512 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: clear if she was actually able to demand that the 513 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: Thailand all be removed. I think she was more warning. Yeah, 514 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: I mean I doubt if there was any law she 515 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: could invoke. I wonder though, it seems afterward I would 516 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: imagine that's you know, we'll talk about that later. So, um, 517 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: the TV and the radio. You know, obviously everyone picks 518 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: us up, not just in Chicago or the United States. 519 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: It goes worldwide, and so you know there's people in 520 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: Europe and Asia pulling Thailand all off the shelves. Yeah. 521 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: So this is a big deal and there was a 522 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: lot of attention lavished on this. There was a poll 523 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: that was taken the next month in October that found 524 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: that this was in cities all over the country, that 525 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: found that respondents were aware of this tail and all 526 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: poisoning story. Some some press agency like a news clipping 527 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: service said that it's the number of the number of 528 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: stories dedicated to it were second only to the number 529 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: of stories dedicated the assassination of JFK. That's how big 530 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: this story became overnight. And again one of the reasons 531 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: why is because everybody took tail and all for everything 532 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: all the time. That's just what you did. It was 533 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: just something everyone took and that same product was now 534 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: killing people. So the most chilling part of all this 535 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: to me, and this is all chilling, uh, maybe the 536 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: copycat stuff because almost immediately, um, copycat incidents has started 537 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: popping up all over the country. Um, there were two 538 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: seventy reports a product tampering in the month after thirty 539 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: six were quote hardcore true tamperings. And that's what's the 540 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: most chilling to me, is like, there were that many people, 541 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,239 Speaker 1: at least thirty six, let's go on the low end, 542 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: thirty six people across the country that wanted to kill 543 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: people and just saw an idea. I'm like, oh, that's 544 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: what I'll do now. I should have thought of that myself. 545 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: I mean, that's scary, man, Yeah, what's what's scary? But 546 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: also infuriating is that there's such terrible self starters that 547 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: they had to be a copycat murderer in that, you 548 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like it's bad enough that they're 549 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: trying to kill somebody, randomly kill somebody, anonymously kill somebody. 550 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: They didn't even think of it themselves. That is a 551 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: pathetic murderer right there. It's pretty pathetic. Put down Exceedrin 552 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: extra strength eccterrian capsules UM were found poison with mercuric chloride. Uh, 553 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: and that almost killed a man in Colorado. His name 554 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: was William Sinkovich and he got He had liver and 555 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: kidney failure, but he did survive. Uh. This one gets me. 556 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: So more than one person thought, Oh, well, you know 557 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: people spray and like drop things in their eyes and nose. 558 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: I'll put acid in there. So tampered sin X and 559 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: tampered vizine both turned up after they had burned people 560 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: with acid. Chemical burn up your nose. Unbelievable. Yeah, that's 561 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: a bad one. So food was also on the list 562 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: of things being tampered with UM, orange juice, chocolate milk. 563 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: Very high profile incident with ballpark hot dogs. They pulled 564 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: a million pounds of wieners off the shelves and ran 565 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: them through a metal detector. Yeah, because this was a 566 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: scare all of you know, the old urban legend of 567 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: razor blades and Halloween candy. I don't Did they actually 568 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: find pins and needles and things for sure? Yes? Okay, 569 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: because I thought that had literally never happened. It hadn't. 570 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: It was an urban legend that became true. But nothing 571 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: in in the wieners. No, some boys I think in 572 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: Detroit claimed to have found razor blades in their ballpark wieners, 573 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,719 Speaker 1: and like you said, a million pounds were recalled and 574 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: then the boys were like, wow, we were just kidding. Yeah. 575 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,479 Speaker 1: And ballpark, well we'll talk about how ballpark was treated 576 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: after that. But they were put on shoulders and carried 577 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: around for how great they handled everything. Uh. And you know, 578 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: there are a lot of hoaxes. There were a lot 579 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: of um tips called in about other tampering and it 580 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: had to really like it. If the purpose of this 581 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: was to induce panic and fear and terror, then it 582 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: absolutely worked. Absolutely. Should we take another break? I think so, Man, 583 00:33:51,360 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna come back and talk about the investigation. Stop, okay, 584 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: chuck um. I also want to point this out Time magazine. 585 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 1: You know how, I'm like super into uh like going 586 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: back and reading contemporary news articles about an event this one. 587 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,959 Speaker 1: I mean, it's all over the place. But Time wrote 588 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,919 Speaker 1: about the copycat incidents back in two and they said 589 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: that the copycats were trying to quote emulate their demonic hero. 590 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: There's still unknown poisoner their demonic hero. That's what the 591 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: journalists from Time decided to go with. That's funny, I guess. 592 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: I mean that seems like a very two thousand nineteen 593 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: thing to write. That's what I'm saying. I feel like 594 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: we're reverting back to two right now. I guess. So 595 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: after that intro of yours, I'm now convinced. So everybody's 596 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: freaked out there there are whole towns that canceled Halloween 597 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: because remember this happened like a month before Halloween, and 598 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: everyone was very scared about candy tampering because of the 599 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: urban legend in some places that turned out to be true, 600 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 1: a self fulfilling prophecy. There are all these hoaxes, there 601 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: are all these actual true product tampering copycats. People were 602 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: freaked out and the cops needed to do something, and 603 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: initially these seven different deaths in five different towns in 604 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: the Chicago area were being treated as five different investigations. Um. 605 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,720 Speaker 1: That didn't last for very long. Within two days, by Friday, 606 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: by the time Mayor Burne holds her press conference on 607 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: w g n UM, what came to be called the 608 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: Thailand All Task Force was formed. All five of those 609 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: investigations got folded into not just local investigations, the FBI, 610 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: the Illinois State Police, UM FDA of course, Yeah, the 611 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: FDA was involved that, and then the whole thing was 612 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: led by the Illinois District Attorney's office, who was the 613 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 1: nominal head of the investigation. Yeah. So they figured out 614 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: pretty quickly that um, you know, like I said earlier, 615 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,919 Speaker 1: they cast their drag net. They come up with about 616 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: a fifty mile radius of where all this stuff was 617 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: bought and sold, and go investigate drug store after drug store, 618 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: and they did find more more bad thaile in all that. 619 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm still sitting on the shelves thankfully. Yeah, yeah, I don't. 620 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: I don't want to skim past that. They found more 621 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 1: talent all waiting to be bought, that's right, like just 622 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: sitting there like hey, come by me. Within two days 623 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: of of these first deaths, that these first murders, we 624 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: keep calling them deaths. These were murders, that's right. Uh. 625 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: And they name their their case there's they're always code 626 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: names for all these cases. This one ranks pretty low 627 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: in my opinion. Timers T Y m U r S 628 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: short obviously for Tilent all murders. At the very least, 629 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 1: the should have been a Z timers. Yeah, yeah, let's 630 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: give it a little flavor, agreed. Uh. So the cops 631 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 1: are um there. There was some confusion about how this 632 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: went down because they're trying to figure out, you know, 633 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: did it happen at the factory, did it happen after 634 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: the factory, what's the supply chain? Like that's that's huge, 635 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: it's like the crux of the investigent. Yeah. Absolutely, Where 636 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: did the tainting occur? Yeah, So they found out that 637 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: all of the containers were from Lot number MC, which 638 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: was pushed out in August. Again, this is the end 639 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: of September. Uh, in states east, all states east of 640 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: the Mississippi, plus the Dakotas, Nebraska, in a bit of Wyoming, 641 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,800 Speaker 1: just a touch of Wyoming for flavor, that's right, for 642 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:03,800 Speaker 1: that mesquite flavor. Uh. However, they were from different production 643 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: plants and they were sold in different drug stores, which 644 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: is weird. It's tough to wrap your head around that 645 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: because it's the same lot, but they came from different plants. 646 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: And it turns out Thailand has also a really weird 647 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: convoluted distribution network. I think that's every company. I have 648 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: a friend that works in supply chain management and I 649 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: was like, huh, so supposedly they'll they'll take boxes and 650 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 1: open them up and repackage them in smaller boxes, and 651 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: it happens at like different different companies at different points 652 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 1: around the country. It's pretty complicated from from a product 653 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: from factory to your mouth, like what happens to kind 654 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: of everything. Um, I would think simplicity would be safer much, 655 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: you know, probably not cheaper, though you're probably right. So 656 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,839 Speaker 1: what they finally figured out was, here's what we think 657 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:57,800 Speaker 1: happened is this stuff was not tainted at the factory. 658 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: This stuff was not tainted in this supply chain. But 659 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: this stuff was tainted it from the store and then 660 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:10,359 Speaker 1: returned back to the store. Right because these pills were 661 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: sold in different stores, which is a big one because 662 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: not only could it have been like part of the factory, 663 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: it could have been one of the local stores distribution 664 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,879 Speaker 1: centers where there was somebody messing with it. But since 665 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: they were sold in Jewel food stores and Walgreens and 666 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: other places to around the Chicago area, that didn't make 667 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: any sense. It couldn't have just been like the Jewel 668 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: distribution center. And also because they were coming from different 669 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,360 Speaker 1: production plants, it really couldn't have been the production plant 670 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: or the factory where it came from. It had to be, 671 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: like you said, happening at the stores. Yeah, And there 672 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: were a lot of initial theories. You know, was it 673 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: someone who like a former disgruntled employee of Johnson and Johnson? 674 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 1: Was it someone uh? Was it it just a serial 675 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: killer who just picked tail on all and wanted to 676 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: randomly kill people, Right, And this is that's weird, that's 677 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: a weird idea at the time, like now it just 678 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: seems normal, like yeah, probably, but this but this was 679 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: two years before the Sanya Cidro McDonald's massacre, which is 680 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: one of the very one of the next random killings 681 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 1: of people who just happened to be in the wrong 682 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 1: place at the wrong time. This was kind of the 683 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 1: first of that, but it was still so new and 684 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: remote an alien that that's that didn't seem like a 685 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 1: realistic idea at the time. Yeah. Some of the other 686 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 1: ideas they thought, um, maybe this was someone that was 687 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: targeting a specific person or people and then randomly poisoned 688 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,400 Speaker 1: other people to cover their tracks. One of the weird 689 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: um one of the weird theories that came out later 690 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: after an spoiler alert, we now have tamper proof medicines. Sure, 691 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,439 Speaker 1: everyone's noticed. There was one theory that it was someone 692 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: who had a financial stake and tamper proof technology. Yeah, 693 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: I saw something like that too. I don't think there 694 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: was ever a ton of credence put into that one. 695 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,879 Speaker 1: But the point is there were a lot. I mean, 696 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 1: they were flying blind basically because it was just such 697 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 1: an unexpected, odd, random thing that we're basically coming up 698 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: with kind of any idea they could think of. But 699 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 1: the one that the cops settled on and the one 700 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 1: that Johnson and Johnson also settled on too, because they 701 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: went back and tested samples from Lot MC and found 702 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 1: that there was no no, there's no taining of the 703 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,839 Speaker 1: of the lot that the their samples were pure. So 704 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: the cops and Johnson and Johnson both decided they settled 705 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: on what's called the mad poisoner theory. That somebody went 706 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: around this fifty mile radius in in the Chicago area, 707 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 1: UM in about seven hours is what the cops calculated. 708 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 1: It would have taken either bought a bunch of tile 709 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: and all and then took it back to their house 710 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,880 Speaker 1: and poisoned it, repackaged it, and then drove around and 711 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: redistributed it, or went from store to store, went in, 712 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 1: bought some tile and all to get out to the car, 713 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,240 Speaker 1: poisoned it, and then repackaged it and brought it back in. UM. 714 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: But that it was local and it was specific to Chicago. 715 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: That was the mad poisoner theory. And again why still 716 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: no one has any idea why. Um. It could have 717 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,919 Speaker 1: been random, They could have been targeting somebody. It could 718 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 1: have been a disgruntal Johnson and Johnson employee. But the 719 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,800 Speaker 1: main theory for the Thaile and all killings in Chicago 720 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: is the mad poison er theory. Yeah. And do you 721 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 1: know how they tested that the rest of that lot. 722 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: They got Detective John Pinky McFarland who had the best 723 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: drug Pinky and all of Illinois, and he went around 724 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,919 Speaker 1: and dipped that pinky in touched it to his tongue. Yeah, 725 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: he said it's good. He's like, I can't feel my 726 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: face right now. The guy's a legend. Yeah, he's his 727 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 1: pinky is his pinky ring is so significant and barely 728 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 1: lift his finger. He only lifts it to test drugs. 729 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,399 Speaker 1: I told you we'd find some jokes. So by mid 730 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 1: October this is sort of the final bit of part 731 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: one here. Um, there was another bottle that people that 732 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,760 Speaker 1: they found another tainted bottle that was purchased on September 733 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: twenty nine, so it fit the bill. And it was 734 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 1: a woman who uh was feeling bad and went to 735 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: go get that tail and all, and her sister was like, no, 736 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 1: I've got some buffering right here, just go ahead and 737 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,399 Speaker 1: take that. And the lady presumably said, well, I really 738 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: prefer see a benefit, but I guess I'll take an aspirin. 739 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, her sister in law saved her by offering 740 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 1: her buffering instead. She was steps away from dropping dead 741 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: at a family gathering. Unbelievable. That is a good place 742 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 1: to stop, huh. Yeah, So that's part one of the 743 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 1: Thailand All murders or timer's with an S and we're 744 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,279 Speaker 1: gonna come back with Part two after this. If you 745 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: want to get in touch with us in in the meantime, 746 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 1: you can go on to stuff you Should Know dot 747 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 1: com and check out our social links, or you can 748 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: send us a good old fashioned email. Version two stuff 749 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: podcast at i heart radio dot com. Radio Stuff you 750 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,120 Speaker 1: Should Know is a production of I heart Radio. For 751 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 752 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,280 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 753 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: H