1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noll. They call 6 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: producer Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you 8 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know the show where it's 10 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: always kind of Halloween, just making that up. Uh, this 11 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: is our listener mail segment for the week, and uh 12 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: we have gosh, like the center Bites says in hell Raiser, 13 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: we have such wonders to show you or to tell 14 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: you about. Uh, we're going through history. We're running into 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: some curses, were into the future of troubling problems with privacy. Frankly, Uh, 16 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: I don't know where best to begin. Would it be? 17 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: Would it be okay if I took a swing first 18 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: with this ancient history stuff? Have had it? Have had it? 19 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: My good man. Alright, we're doing this with the help 20 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: from our fellow conspiracy realist, Evan. Evan writes to us 21 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: and says hello, I'm wondering if you have done an 22 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: episode on the burning of the Library of Alexandria. It's 23 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: a fascinating topics, says Evan, and has been said to 24 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: send civilization hundreds of years back. Uh, set civilization hundreds 25 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: of years back. It's a common misbelief that it was 26 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: all of a sudden burned, as I believe it was 27 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: actually becoming very unpopular over centuries and then it was 28 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: accidentally burned. Would society be at a different place today 29 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: if it had still been kept intact? Are there any 30 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: rumors of important documents that would have changed society today? 31 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: Why didn't they just save all the physical copies as 32 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: PDF files? Evan? So Evan says, all joking aside, I 33 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: believe there are many avenues to explore with this topic, 34 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: and if it has not already been an episode, it 35 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: would make for a great show. I agree. I think 36 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: that's that's a fantastic point, because the Library of Alexandria 37 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: is one of those big historical what ifs. You know, 38 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: we all we're all vaguely aware of it. We've we've 39 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: heard of this. Uh. We know that human society in 40 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: general has a bad, bad habit with when it comes 41 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: to book burning, in this case scroll burning. But I 42 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: don't think a lot of us know the I think 43 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: in the modern day, like a lot of us are 44 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: not aware of how the decline of the Great Library 45 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: actually worked, you know what I mean. Like picturing Library 46 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: of Alexandria, it kind of reminds me the exploration we 47 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: did on a rom the City of Pillars, right, which 48 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: was mythological city, but we found the real thing and 49 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: it it turns out that maybe it just looked more 50 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,679 Speaker 1: impressive back then because the people who finally happened upon 51 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: it were often starving to death and you know, lost 52 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: members of their caravan along the way. So maybe the library, uh, 53 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: if we saw it in the modern day, maybe it 54 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: wouldn't have been as impressive as it was the people 55 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: of the time. But it is an interesting question. I 56 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: don't know, what do you all think? So do you 57 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: think it would have changed history? I don't know. It's 58 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: like I mean, I guess we it's hard to know. 59 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: Do we have a sense of what what we're missing 60 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: or is it just like it's just poof gone. We 61 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: don't even have any indication of what might have been 62 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: in the well Okay, we know a couple of things 63 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: about Alexandria of the time and what the library really was, right, Um, 64 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: the first thing you need to know is that gosh, 65 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: I mean it was Tell me if I'm wrong on 66 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: this bend. My understanding is that it was Alexander the 67 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: Great that founded this. Um, well, I founded Alexandria at least, 68 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: and that was way back in the day three thirty 69 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: one BC I believe BC. Um. And then from there 70 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: it became this big essentially a harbor town, like a 71 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: trade A big part of the trade routes alex area 72 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: itself in Egypt. And one of the big things that 73 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: they did in Alexandria was create papyrus specifically for writing purposes. 74 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: And you know, you can imagine if you're at the 75 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: hub of or if you're the you are the creator 76 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: of most of the paper or something, you would be 77 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: also interested in keeping around the things that are put 78 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: onto paper, generally words which become books, sometimes pictures, um 79 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,679 Speaker 1: or both which is the best kind pictures and words. 80 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: I agreed, My friends agreed, But I mean, we would 81 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: like a modern day equivalent of this being something like 82 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: the Library of Congress, Like it's meant to you know, 83 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: how is all of these really crucial cultural documents of 84 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 1: import that would be, you know, a legacy type thing, 85 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: or was it just a really awesome library that just 86 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: had like fantastically curated materials. Yeah, I can feel some 87 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: of these. So the the library itself had a an 88 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: agglomeration of a ton of different things. But to me, 89 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: one of the most fascinating parts of this is that 90 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: the experts right now, if you ask them, if you 91 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: put them to the sword and said, tell me how 92 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: many scrolls, I mean, how many things documents were in 93 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: the library, then their best guess is somewhere between forty 94 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: thousand to four hundred thousand. And the reason that's roughly 95 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: you'll see people say that's roughly the equivalent to a 96 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: hundred thousand books. For reference, the Library of Congress has 97 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: more than thirty nine million books that are cataloged. The 98 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: problem is, we know the founding of the Library of Congress. 99 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: We have a factual history of how that institution came 100 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: to be. But if we look at something as ancient 101 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: as the Library of Alexandria, uh, it's like finding the 102 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: origins of dynasties in ancient China. You know, we get 103 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: into the world of legend very quickly. We know it 104 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: wasn't the first library of its kind, but it's their 105 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: their mythic elements to the origin story, absolutely, And just 106 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: before we jump into some of those, the big fact 107 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: in my mind and answer to your question, well, is 108 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: that think about we we can't even imagine it. Think 109 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: about the time of three hundred four b c e. 110 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: Just the number of writings of knowledge, of of recorded 111 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: histories of sciences that were being developed, and I mean 112 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: really anything. It wasn't It's not like you could just 113 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: go somewhere and grab a book, right. You couldn't order 114 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: one online. You can't go to a bookstore down the road, 115 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: because people don't just have giant stores of books and 116 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: paprietor scrolls anywhere where you can pick up and learn 117 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: what you want to learn. Libraries like the one in 118 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: Alexandria and in a few other places across the world 119 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: at the time, that was it, man. That is the 120 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: knowledge base essentially, right, And if you're going to make 121 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: copies or something, you you know, you needed to have 122 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: the source material and you can only go to a 123 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: couple of places to get it. Yeah, they had a 124 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: they had a huge operation for this. The the government 125 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: funded UH purchase of books or purchase of scrolls and documents, 126 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: and they sent out government agents too, with tons scads 127 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: of cash UH to try to find any and every 128 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: text that they could get their hands on because they 129 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: wanted They were nothing if not ambitious. They wanted this 130 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: to be the number one repository of all human knowledge, 131 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: and that's why they were trying to archive things as 132 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: well as collecting them. They wanted the oldest possible stuff. 133 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: So if they had like five leads on different translations 134 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: of something, they would they would one all five, but 135 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: they would definitely go for the oldest first. So in 136 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: answer that question, that means that we can we can 137 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: surmise that we're religious text because remember religion and science 138 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: are very you know, fingers. On the same hand here 139 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: this time, they would also want biographies. They would want 140 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: things that appeared to be descriptions of the natural world, myths. UH. 141 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: Poetry was really big. That's back when people cared about 142 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 1: poetry still. And because of this, they would also host 143 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: specialist you would go get a job at the library, 144 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: which is which is no small feat because we also 145 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: have to remember that literacy was considered a weapon. In 146 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: many parts of the world at this time. There are 147 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: people who are not allowed to be literate because it 148 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: was seen as a threat to the status quo. Uh. 149 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: There is a rumor that there may have even been 150 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: they may have even started keeping live animals there, like 151 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: exotic animals as a again, a repository. You know, I've 152 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: never heard I had never heard that. That's amazing. So like, 153 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: you go, I love the idea of you're going to uh, 154 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: the wing of the building where where you're looking through 155 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: alphabetized things, let's just call it g and you're like, okay, 156 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: geography and there's a giraffe. Okay, like the draft being 157 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: between the books and geometry over here. So yeah, there's 158 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: a big draphing between just hanging out on the bookshelf, 159 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: between the bookshelves. But to the question about how how 160 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: was this destroyed, you're right, Evan, it appears that it 161 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: went through a period of decline before before it met 162 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: it's uh, it's death knell. We know that it was 163 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: accidentally burned by Julius Caesar around forty eight b c E. 164 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: But we don't know how much of it was completely destroyed, 165 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: how much could have been salvaged or rebuilt shortly after 166 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: in a recovery phase. We know that it dwindled. Public 167 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: support and funding were being pulled around two sixty CE 168 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: or yeah, the mid to sixty C membership at the 169 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: library stopped being an option, and then over the course 170 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: of rebellions, counter attacks, domestic unrest, sometime between two seventy 171 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: and two seventies C. E experts believe whatever remained of 172 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: the library was destroyed. But it wasn't like some equivalent 173 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: of a terrorist came to an existing successful institution and 174 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: then burned it to the ground. It just kind of 175 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: ended with a whimper instead of a bank. Well, okay, 176 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: so that's really interesting. I had read elsewhere, I think, 177 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not the best source. It was medium 178 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: dot com, but and I couldn't find the sourcing for it. 179 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: But the impression of this writer was that you're exactly 180 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 1: what you're saying is correct about the first time it 181 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: accidentally burned in in in that time frame. But then 182 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: there's this author is saying that with the decline of 183 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: Egypt under Roman rule, which is what you're talking about, 184 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: that's what kind of caused to have that downturn and 185 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: funding and support and all of that stuff. But then 186 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: Alexandria revolted against Roman control, I guess, and there was 187 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: um that battle or the battles that then ensued after that, 188 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: is what caused it to burn. I wasn't sure if 189 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 1: you guys found anything about that. Yeah. Again, it's a 190 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: little tricky because we're examining the story of something that 191 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: has a partially legendary origin tale, you know what I mean. 192 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: And then we have to consider the Greek game of telephone, 193 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: all the intervening agendas of people who are reporting on 194 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: this over the millennia. Uh. We also have to say, uh, 195 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: we also have to point out that it's a weird 196 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: question because it turns out that a lot of the 197 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: information at the library, not everything, but a lot of 198 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 1: the information there existed in other places, Like a minority 199 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: of stuff was actually lost for good forever. It's kind 200 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: of what it seemed like would be the case. That's 201 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: sort of what I was getting out early on, was like, 202 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: surely there were backups or you know, I mean, they 203 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: would be even if hand copied. I mean, they think 204 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: they would have made more than one. If these things 205 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: were really you know, culturally significant, well, you know, that 206 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: one of the main things I think Ben mentioned this, 207 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: but one of the main things they would do at 208 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: the library is make copies books and things that were 209 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: coming in. It makes me think of the Game of 210 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: Thrones where the citadel, you know, where the uh what 211 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 1: are they the master's all hang out and the library 212 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: is this amazing? I bet you it was that even 213 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: modeled after something like that. Uh. And there's a lot 214 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: of those uh scribes or the library, you know, masters 215 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: or copying manuscripts by hand. Yeah. Yeah. And and just 216 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: speaking of backups, there was a there was a second 217 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: library that was essentially an overflow library. Um, I'm gonna 218 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: pronounce it incorrectly serapium some of serapium maybe, um and 219 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: it uh, it did a lot of things, but one 220 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: of the major things it did was take care of 221 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: the overflow from the Library of Alexandria because there was 222 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: so much just going into that place. And they I'm 223 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: assuming we again we don't know for sure, but I 224 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: assumed that there was quite a bit of backing up 225 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: of documentation that one did survive another like a hundred 226 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: and twenty years after the Library of Alexandria burned at least. Yeah, 227 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: and that's that's the thing. I love that you're pointing 228 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: this out. Don't think of the Library of Alexandria as 229 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: just a supersized version of your local library. Think of 230 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: it more as a research institute. This is a place 231 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: where people are translating work continually, and it's very rare 232 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: that to happen with such systemic uh and successful design. 233 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: The thing is, there are other libraries too that we 234 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: would talk about. Maybe we should just talk about the 235 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: loss of ancient libraries. Because the Library of Baghdad was sacked. Uh, 236 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: there's the House of Wisdom that people might not be 237 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: as aware of. Uh. It's it is an enormous loss 238 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: to history. UH. But but it's a very difficult question 239 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: for us to answer when we say what would the 240 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: world have been like? I mean revisionists or alternative history aside. 241 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: To answer that question, we would need to have a 242 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: little bit better idea of what was in there that 243 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: was lost the time, you know, the old chicken or 244 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: the egg question or something, the papyrus or the page 245 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: boom ben way to make it era appropriate. Um, this 246 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: is I mean, I I started to harp on this, 247 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: but it does feel like there is a parallel with 248 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: the National Archives and and the Library of Congress, and 249 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: just the idea that like this is a repository of 250 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: all the stuff that we think is important enough to 251 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: keep and tag and put a number on. But I'm 252 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: sure there's digitization efforts involved now, just in case, you know, 253 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: there were an attack or god forbid, uh waste paper 254 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: basket fire that you know, poof took the whole thing up. 255 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: They probably do have those PDFs that the listener was 256 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: talking about. Oh, I hope they have a secret room 257 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: in Iron Mountain. I'm sure they have like real rooms 258 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: and an out in the republic knowledge. But how fun 259 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: would a secret room be? A secret room in a 260 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: secret mountain. This is the b site the Iron Mountain, 261 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: you know, that nobody knows about. So we may well 262 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: dive into these strange mysteries of ancient libraries, their destruction, 263 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: and how that destruction did or did not influence the 264 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: modern day. But before we do that, we're going to 265 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: pause for a word from our sponsors, and then we'll 266 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: hear more from you specifically we're back then, Yes, that 267 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: was that last line was a little misleading for a 268 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: lot of the people listening to the audience today. But 269 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: but for one person you just had, Matt, you mentioned 270 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 1: this off area. You're just you're gonna have a real 271 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: weird moment. Yeah, sorry everybody else, Hannah, we were we 272 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: were talking about you. Um, Hannah actually just sent us 273 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: a link. That is all that was included in her email. 274 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: It was a link she did. There was She didn't 275 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: need to greet us, she didn't need to tell us 276 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: anything about it. She just said, hey, look over here 277 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: at this. I said, okay, popped it open and this 278 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: is what I found. It is a Guardian article, The 279 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: Guardian in fact, and the title is tourist returns stolen 280 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: artifacts from POMPEII after suffering curse. Yeah, you know how 281 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: we like curses here on stuff. They don't want you 282 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: to know. Please do not cast any upon us, but uh, 283 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: we we like discussing them. Specifically. Was it King Tutton 284 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 1: commons curse that we looked at back in the day. 285 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: I think that was the one. Yeah, that sounds right, 286 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 1: maybe a few others. What happens when you meddle with 287 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: something ancient that deals with or that had something terrible 288 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: occur to it or around it or to the humans 289 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: that used it. Um, well, that is the case here. 290 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: Let let's jump into the article just a little bit. 291 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: There was a tourist from Canada who visited Pompeii fifteen 292 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: years ago as of this month, and she while she 293 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: was there, she took to mosaic tiles and a piece 294 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: of ceramics, and she took both of those things back 295 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: with her to Canada after leaving Pompeii. Um, first of all, 296 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: let's not do this, everybody. Let's just make a pact 297 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 1: right now. If you're in Pompeii or some other ancient 298 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: city or place, let's not pilfer things from those ancient places. 299 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: Should I should wait? What? Oh? Oh no, I've just 300 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: I think it's a noble thing to do. Why do 301 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:02,479 Speaker 1: we want to be honest, it's you know, things come up. Well, okay, 302 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: it's something we should strive to not do. Okay, looking 303 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: at you British museic, I mean even like you know, 304 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: there's this historic cemetery in Atlanta called Oakland Cemetery, and 305 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: you know there's like a golfer's grave there, whether people 306 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: have dumped all these golf balls there and like teas 307 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. You know, people even that's like 308 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: not cool, you know, taking taking that stuff as a 309 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: souvenir or like Jean Benet Ramsey's grave, And I'm sorry 310 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: I'm being depressing about that, but there's like a tree 311 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: next to her grave that people hang these little ornaments in, 312 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: and you know you don't want to take that stuff either, 313 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: but you certainly don't want to take something that could 314 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: be like a culturally important artifact, let alone that has 315 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: religious significance. And the idea of of of desecrating a grave, 316 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: that's just you know, not chill, You're correct, And on 317 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,959 Speaker 1: this show, we as of yet have enabled to confirm 318 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: or deny the existence of karma. But it's certainly something 319 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: that I feel exists and uh comes something that comes 320 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: something akin to what you put into the world, you 321 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: will also get out of it. Um. But it's not 322 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: always true. In history has proven this. Uh So let's 323 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: let's get back to this tourist. Her name is Nicole, 324 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: and when she was fairly young, in her early twenties, 325 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: she visited POMPEII and she took these things. She took 326 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: these things back to where she was living. And at 327 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: this point, fifteen years later, she is blaming this simple, 328 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: this single act on several pretty terrible things that have 329 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: happened in her life. Um. She she apparently has suffered 330 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: with breast cancer um twice in her life, so getting cancer, 331 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: being treated, going to remission, then getting cancer again the 332 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: second time. She was forced to get a or she 333 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: had to get a double mastectomy in order to treat 334 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: the cancer. And she said she's had a run of 335 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: misfortune going getting into financial hardship. Um, I'm sure in 336 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: part from her medical expenses. And then she took these, 337 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: put them in a package, sent them back with a 338 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: note that said, please take them back. They bring bad luck. 339 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: And and she did apologize for the act of pilfering. 340 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: And you know, it's one of those things like at 341 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: least she did the right thing and sent them back, 342 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: because not everyone does, and people take things from Pompeii 343 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: all the time and other places. And I just want 344 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: to jump to an article from oh and from all sources, 345 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: mail online, but bear with me here, um, oh gosh, 346 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,719 Speaker 1: it's it's not that bad of a of a source. 347 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: But my goodness, if you try and navigate their website, 348 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: the ad placement is just insane. UM, I get what 349 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: you're doing, mail online. You gotta have those ads. But 350 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: come on, I can barely read your articles. Um. This 351 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: is an article from that describes just how many people 352 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 1: take things from Pompeii and return them. Um, there's a 353 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:32,479 Speaker 1: seventy year old woman who took something from They call 354 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: it the attraction. So it's like the actual city of 355 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: Pompeii that was uncovered after amounts of vesuvious, you know, 356 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: erupted and it essentially encased most of everyone who was 357 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,959 Speaker 1: there in the city in ash and the bodies were 358 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: actually recovered after it was rediscovered years and years and 359 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: years later. Um. It's a very somber place. But but 360 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: this woman's seven year old woman took uh something in 361 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four and then returned it. And then in 362 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: this article, the director of the archaeological museum there at 363 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: least I think that's who they're referring to, it does 364 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: not actually say here UM says they've been receiving hundreds 365 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: of packages with hundreds of fragments for years and they 366 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: were considering setting up a special special display essentially that 367 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: was going to be all of the artifacts that have 368 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: been taken and returned. Um. It's really interesting. There's a 369 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: specific Fresco fragment that was taken and of the archaeologists 370 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: there they wanted to restore. This thing is called the 371 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: Costa del Fruteo and or it's on the Costa Fruteo side. 372 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: It's what it says. They wanted to restore this thing. 373 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: But there was there were a couple important fragments missing, 374 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: and one person who did take this important thing returned 375 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: it and they were able to put the thing together 376 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: restore it. I mean that's nice, right, yeah. But Nicola 377 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: at the leave her package had some there were some 378 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: other people, I think a couple from Canada that included 379 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: some stuff they were returning. Uh. And I couldn't find 380 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: other people referring to a curse. Uh. It seems like 381 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: many people were just returning these pilfered pieces of history 382 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: because they rightly felt bad about what they had done. 383 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 1: And also, just to be very clear about my earlier joke, yes, 384 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: don't don't steal from museums. Don't steal other people's culture 385 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: and history. I mean, one of the great tragedies of 386 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: the Iraq War that nobody talks about is how in 387 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,239 Speaker 1: two thousand and three are starting in two thousand three, Uh, 388 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: the National Museum of Iraq was looted like. This is 389 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: not an ancient thing, you know, it's not a one 390 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: off that happens uh decades or centuries in the past. 391 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: We have to remember that there there are concerted efforts 392 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: to to take this stuff for personal enjoyment and for profit. 393 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: There's a huge business in a legal artifacts and historical 394 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: works of art. So good on, I would say, good 395 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: on everybody for returning this kind of stuff. You know, 396 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: it's um yeah, you feel right having it in your house. Well, 397 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: she Nicole certainly didn't. And what she wrote in her letter, 398 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you one more quote, she said, we 399 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: took them without thinking of the pain and suffering these 400 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: poor souls experienced during the eruption of Vesuvius and their 401 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: terrible deaths. We are sorry, Please forgive us for making 402 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: this terrible choice. Made their souls rest in peace. And again, 403 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: this is a special circumstance. This, this really is. This 404 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: is a place where a terrible thing occurred and lots 405 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: of suffering took place. And you know, I understand that 406 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: that being there in the moment looking at everything kind 407 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 1: of you know, experiencing it as close as you can, 408 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: you may think I want to remember this forever. This 409 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: is this is amazing, Yeah, but but don't don't do it. 410 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: Like Ben said, also, this isn't the year for it. 411 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: You know, we don't have time for this one. But 412 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: you guys heard recently, right, fifty nine new mummies and 413 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: a statue of a mysterious god were found in Egypt. 414 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: People are disentering it. It's not the time. Let let 415 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 1: the dead stay in the ground, just like at least 416 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: until are you saying we don't need an undead plague 417 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: in addition to all the other because this is the year, 418 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: this is the year would happened, nol Obviously, it would 419 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: certainly be like a cherry on top. Honestly, I mean, 420 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: why not let's just go all the way and get 421 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 1: weird with it and be torn apart by angry undead 422 00:27:55,200 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: deities from another dimension? Um yeah, uh, I mean we 423 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: could uh, but you know we also couldn't. We could not. Well, 424 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: it's you know, we'll see. Let's just let's just let's 425 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: roll the dice on this one. We'll see how it goes. 426 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: Do you guys believe in curses? Now? I know you 427 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: and I talked about this in the King Tied episode. 428 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: If I were called it's a little difficult to navigate 429 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: or it's complicated, right because, uh, you do believe in 430 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: something like karma, just yea formalized karma. Yeah. But really, 431 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: when I'm thinking about curses, it's something that is you 432 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: do something and then a and a live person perform 433 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: some kind of ritual that really is just we talked 434 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: about this on the on Harmon town. Um when we're 435 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: referring to magic, the ritual, Yeah, the ritual itself is 436 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: self weaponized self psychology, right, so almost like convincing yourself 437 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: that I'm gonna cause bad things to happen to this person. Um. 438 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: I don't believe that there's some kind of supernatural force 439 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: that you know, reaches its hand throughout time and space 440 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: and does bad things to you. But I don't know. 441 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're if you're doing anything to harm 442 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: another person, then you should be on the lookout. Yeah, 443 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,479 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's to say, you know, I mean, 444 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: words have power and if you really focus them on somebody, 445 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: But then but then then it belize the question like 446 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: is a curse a curse if you just do it 447 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: in private and don't tell the person you know what 448 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: I mean, does it require actually psyching them out with 449 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: some like you know, mental jiu jitsu or can you 450 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: just you know, whisper in a corner in your room 451 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: and then hope that that that that the power of 452 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: your words manifests itself somehow through the ether, I would 453 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: say less so that for sure, much more basically weaponized 454 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: talking where you're like making someone feel bad about themselves 455 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: and then they believe gas lighting. Yeah, that's a that's 456 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: a curse. Things like that, you know, because of the 457 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: curse words. We used curses all the time, you know, 458 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: we we curse things all the time, like a plague, 459 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: a pox on your house, a plague on your podcast, 460 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: those are curses. A curse saying that is a curse. 461 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: What was it too that we were talking about? How 462 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: like um, death too and FARSI is uh much more 463 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: accurately described as sort of just like a like a 464 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: mild curse, sort of like you know, forget that thing, 465 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: you know, airline food right exactly, airline. But it's just 466 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: some of the most like death to Matt Frederick and 467 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: his entire family as opposed to man Matt Frederick's sort 468 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: of a pill you know, like oh dang, all right, well, no, 469 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: I don't believe these things. These are entirely hypothetical. No 470 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: one in their right mind would ever call you a pill, 471 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: and if they did, I would have words for them. 472 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: You just cursed me. But okay, I think if you 473 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: or a pill, you'd be a sugar pill man exactly, 474 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: completely ineffective. But I can bring about results if you 475 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: believe it. I've always believed in your your abilities to 476 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: bring about let us see. Yeah, yeah, let us know 477 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: if curses work, let us do if you if you have, 478 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: don't curse us. Please, we need all the help we 479 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: can get. None of the entrance. Uh, but let us know, 480 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: can I really quickly? This is not an ad, but 481 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: I've been listening to an audible book. It's called The 482 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: Three Agreements. Um. It's it's sort of like a little 483 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: bit of a hippie dippy kind of self help situation. Um, 484 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: but I'm quite enjoying it. And it has this section 485 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: like there are parts of it that go along and 486 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, this guy's really onto something. 487 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: I really dig this, and I don't think it goes 488 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,239 Speaker 1: too far. And then he'll go too far. And one 489 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: of the examples was he's talking about this kind of 490 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: thing where it's like you say, oh, uh, Matt, you're 491 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: not looking so good. I think maybe you definitely have cancer. 492 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: And then and I'm thinking, okay, you have cursed Matt 493 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: by putting the idea in his mind that he has cancer, 494 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: and then he's gonna start thinking about it and commiserating 495 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: about it, and it's gonna make him unhappy. But the 496 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: guy went a step further and said, if Matt believes 497 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: the curse that you just laid upon him, he will 498 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: have cancer in three weeks time. Well, that happened. I mean, 499 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: we have proof of something like that happening multiple times 500 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: in Australia, of of people dying because they believe they 501 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: were cursed. We also have wait, are we talking about 502 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: the same book, because I've read the four Agreements that's 503 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: the one. Excuse me, the four agreements. Yeah, I'm sorry, 504 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: I left one agreement out. I haven't gotten the fourth 505 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: agreement yet. So, uh So I wonder though, because you know, um, 506 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: curses can I think we we proved through one way 507 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: or another, curses can be enormously powerful. Uh It's the 508 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: debate is whether we are comfortable calling that kind of 509 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: psychology magic and then the main thing for me is 510 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: what would happen if all the museums of the world 511 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: returned their ancient artifacts to the cultures from whence those 512 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: artifacts came. There's a great I think it was in 513 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: the hell Blazer comics John Constantine, where he the writer 514 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: has this fantastic line about the British the British museums, 515 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: where they said, this is where the Empire drew the 516 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: line and said no more, We'll give you back the countries, 517 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: but we're keeping this stuff. And I think about that 518 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: a lot, you know, Like, do we weigh the benefits 519 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: of the benefits of preserving history against the ethical problems 520 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: of stealing it from somewhere else? I don't know. I 521 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: don't know, man, It's an interesting thought experiment, that's for sure. Yeah. 522 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: Should we pop to a quick break and come back 523 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: with one another listener mail? Absolutely, don't take things from 524 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:12,720 Speaker 1: UNESCO World Heritage Sites and ad break, don't take anything, 525 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: don't take stuff that's not yours. Why are we still anyway? 526 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: At break? And we're back with our final listener mail 527 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: for the week. This one comes from Haley Uh and 528 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: it looks and we were looking back and we're realizing 529 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: that Haley's pitched us a few great ideas for episodes 530 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: that we haven't gotten to yet. Um, but need to 531 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: go back and check all of these emails out. But 532 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 1: this is the most recent one that she sent, and 533 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: it goes like this, good afternoon, dudes. Maybe this will 534 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: be the email it gets me featured on the show. 535 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: Huh huh, we're talking about intention with the curses and everything. 536 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: It goes both ways positive things. It's weird. That's karma, baby, 537 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,720 Speaker 1: put put put it on emails out of the universe, 538 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: and you will eventually get one read on the stuff 539 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: that I wants you to know. Podcast by a lottery 540 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: ticket today after you. Anyway, I'll get to the point. 541 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: My husband is an aerospace engineer, specifically an aero dynamicist. 542 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: Says that he doesn't get into the whole conspiracy thing, 543 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: and he likes to take a healthy, logical step back 544 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: and look at things with a critical eye. Well, uh, 545 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: we we do too, for sure. I think that's one 546 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: of our favorite ways to approach some of these topics. So, um, 547 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: you should tell your husband listen to the show. You 548 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: might you might dig him, So she continues, sure, sure, 549 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,839 Speaker 1: and then he pops off his own conspiracies. This one 550 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: I had to share. Uh stage set. I'm in the kitchen. 551 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: A local, yet unknown number calls me. I answer usually 552 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: I don't if it's unknown, but we just moved, so 553 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: I'm a little more open to unknown numbers right now. 554 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: If they're local, I say hello, The line cuts out 555 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: nearly instantly. My husband, you know they're recording and analyzing 556 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:06,439 Speaker 1: of voices to use them right me? What? Husband? Yeah, 557 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: for sure, they're getting smarter. Telemarketers and hackers used to 558 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: call from any number, but now they have smartened their 559 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,359 Speaker 1: systems to call your phone based on its geographical number. 560 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: Used to you would get calls from all over the US, 561 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: but now they're connected to your area code or area 562 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: codes you frequently call me? Sure, So, so you think 563 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: what the audio record the auto recordings are hang ups 564 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: or them just wanting to hear you say hello or 565 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: go to hell? My husband, basically audio spectrographing your voice 566 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: to develop a system which mimics specifically your voice and 567 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: then uses it me to I don't know. That's how 568 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 1: we need to leave this planet. Um. Yeah, and then 569 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: then just a little a little wrap up and I 570 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 1: love the show and all that stuff. Uh, yeah, interesting one. 571 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,040 Speaker 1: I've certainly never heard this angle. Uh, and I've just 572 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: wanted to read it because it was a fun little scene. Um, 573 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 1: but what do you guys think? Like how we know 574 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 1: that there's things like spoofing. You know, where you get 575 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: a call from, like a number closely resembling your own number. 576 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: Maybe it's off by one, maybe it's the exact number, 577 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: so you're intrigued, so you're more likely to pick that up? 578 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,360 Speaker 1: Are you less likely to pick that up? Certainly have 579 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: seen you know, the figuring out your area code, and 580 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: I'm more likely to pick up a number that's safe 581 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: from Rome Georgia. Uh thinking who knows what it could be. 582 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: It could be a work related thing. I don't know, 583 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: but if it needs an eight hundred number, I definitely 584 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: won't pick it up. But yeah, most of them now 585 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: on my phone say potential spam or a potential fraud 586 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: or something like that. Um, doesn't don't mind, doesn't do that? 587 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: I don't. I think I get so many now at 588 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:53,399 Speaker 1: this point that the iOS is just getting smarter. It's like, hey, 589 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: you seem to not really pick up when the calls 590 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: come through like this, But I'm honestly unsure how the 591 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: tech is working there, but I do know that I 592 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 1: try to answer whenever I can, and there's so many calls, 593 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 1: and it's not this is a real thing like telemarketing 594 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: calls and just awful. Robo calls are increasing and they 595 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: have been increasing for sure. To respond, I would say 596 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: that this is somewhat But first off, Hailey, thank you 597 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: for writing. Your husband is a h right. This is 598 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: not a new thing either in the world of tech. 599 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: This is somewhat old beings because some version of this 600 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 1: has existed for a number of years. Uh. You can 601 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: find things dating back a couple of years that that 602 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: proved the use of robo calls and voice recording, at 603 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: least for fraud. You can you can get a call 604 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: for instance, like think of it this way. You get 605 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: a robo call, or you get a live person is 606 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,839 Speaker 1: a scammer who's instead of mentioning who they are when 607 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: the answer the phone, the first thing they say is 608 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,879 Speaker 1: so you know you like ring ring ring, and then 609 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: you answer the phone, oh hoy, hoy, or however you 610 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: answer the phone, and then the people on the other 611 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 1: end of the phone, instead of saying who they are, 612 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: they say can you hear me? And then you say 613 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: yes and they hang up, and now they have a 614 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,760 Speaker 1: recording of you saying yes, and so with a couple 615 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: of other bits of information, they can call an automated 616 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,279 Speaker 1: line and authorize things as financial charges and so on. 617 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,839 Speaker 1: Oh no, I didn't even really think about that. That's 618 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: that's diabolical. That makes perfect sense. Of course they could 619 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 1: do that. I mean if they have, you know, the 620 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,279 Speaker 1: last four digits of your social or something else. But 621 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 1: then again, it's not like when you do those calls 622 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: where you have to audibly say yes. Do you really 623 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 1: think they're using voice print technology to like like like 624 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: in a sci fi movie or you have to like 625 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: do a retina scan. Do they really have a a 626 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: print of your voice so they can confirm identity. I'll 627 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: tell you the scary thing. A lot of bank now, 628 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: several in particular, do a thing where they will ask 629 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 1: you to say this phrase. Oh no, I'm not even 630 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 1: gonna say it, oh my god, oh my god, make 631 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,839 Speaker 1: up one new one that's sort of oh my god, 632 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,840 Speaker 1: oh my god. Is it like the quick brown fox 633 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: jumps uh open, says me. That's what they would make 634 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: you say, and potential pills pill for pompeii, uh pottery. 635 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: They just they make you say a phrase and if 636 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,360 Speaker 1: if the system recognizes your voice, and it's an automated system, 637 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: if it recognizes your voice saying that phrase, then it 638 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: will let you in um without any of the other 639 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: pieces of information to confirm. It's designed to be like 640 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: a one a single sign in, one password for everything, 641 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: like face idea on the new phones, you know, it's 642 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 1: like yeah, but oh my god, because if it's going 643 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,439 Speaker 1: over a phone ownline, right, there's so much compression going 644 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,919 Speaker 1: on whatever audio, it's not gonna matter. It's not gonna 645 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 1: matter if it's been compressed. Again, oh my god, this 646 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: is terrifying. No, no, that's true. And just for like 647 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 1: non audio nerds out there, that basically means like, you know, 648 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,719 Speaker 1: you have a recording that's a certain number of bits 649 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 1: or whatever and like certain fidelity, and then when you 650 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: transmit something, you know as an MP three for example, 651 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: you're reducing the fidelity in a way hopefully that isn't 652 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 1: like unpleasant. So there's like, you know, a level of 653 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 1: encoding that will make it small enough to transfer v 654 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: email or stream or whatever. But a phone is like 655 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: crushing it. It's essentially dismantling the sound and putting it 656 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: back together in these like audio equivalents of like big 657 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 1: giant pixels or something. And so you're right. Think about 658 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 1: all the technology that's been or the advances have been 659 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,839 Speaker 1: made in like deep fakes, or we saw a thing 660 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: in even an Adobe audition, the software that we use, 661 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: or maybe it was a different one where it was 662 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 1: agually Photoshop for audio, where I think there was some 663 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 1: big presentation at one of the is like, uh, you know, 664 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 1: an Apple conference, the big the big ones, like I 665 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: think this is Adobe, and they recreated someone's voice saying 666 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff and it sounded very believable. So 667 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,959 Speaker 1: having that print is like gold. That's a really good point. 668 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: I didn't even think about this when I was reading 669 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: the email. If they can get a catalog of people 670 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,280 Speaker 1: saying enough things, they could you know, build the version 671 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 1: of their voice to do what you're talking about. With banks, 672 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: maybe think about this. It goes much further than banks. Uh, 673 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:36,840 Speaker 1: everyone listening when you have called uh, let's see your 674 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 1: credit card company, a bank, utility company, or even your 675 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 1: maybe student loans if you have those. Have you noticed 676 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 1: the social engineering that is occurring on these automated lines. 677 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,439 Speaker 1: It is being sold to you disingenuously as a matter 678 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,000 Speaker 1: of your convenience. It is not. It is creating a 679 00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 1: new income or revenue stream for many of these institutions 680 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: because the agreements that you sign when you uh, you know, 681 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,080 Speaker 1: when you hop on with these services allows them to 682 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 1: use your data in a ton of ways, and your 683 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: audio data is no different. I I myself, just personally, 684 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: I have complained to institutions about this. Uh. It starts 685 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: the way that sesame credits started, which I don't want 686 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 1: to overuse that example, but the voice stuff was opt 687 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 1: in at first, and then it was opt out right 688 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: and now for many people you don't have a choice. 689 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,320 Speaker 1: You have to physically speak, You have to say a 690 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,880 Speaker 1: phrase to confirm a certain thing. Uh. There are there 691 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,320 Speaker 1: are places that I had been interacting with where I 692 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:52,360 Speaker 1: just continued to use the dial tone or touch tone stuff, 693 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: even when it was taken off the menu. It was 694 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: like I was ordering something off the menu at a restaurant. 695 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,880 Speaker 1: And then when it got to the point where I 696 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: couldn't use just the touch tone and stuff, and I 697 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:10,239 Speaker 1: got with a human or humanesque entity on the other line, 698 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 1: and asked them why this was happening. Uh, the question 699 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 1: got dodged real hard. They're selling your voice and and 700 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 1: they're maybe not from nefarious purposes. Maybe it's used to 701 00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 1: help voice recognition AI, which still has a lot of problems. Right, 702 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,280 Speaker 1: all you have to do is look at captions on YouTube. 703 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,600 Speaker 1: But it's happening. It really is, and it is. It 704 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,439 Speaker 1: is not necessarily a conspiracy theory. I mean, I don't 705 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,759 Speaker 1: know if it's even a conspiracy. I feel like it's 706 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: not a cover up. I feel like we just in 707 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:46,720 Speaker 1: the conversation we're having, we're already on board with your husband, Haley, 708 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 1: and I hope you are too. It didn't take but 709 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,359 Speaker 1: a hop, skip and a jump to get there either, 710 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: and it I hadn't even really considered it, but we 711 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,920 Speaker 1: literally went there in real time. At least I did, um, 712 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,480 Speaker 1: you know, to to put a slightly less horrific bow 713 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: on it. Uh. And looking into this, I came across, uh, 714 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 1: this really cool article from Vice called the Story of Lenny, 715 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,879 Speaker 1: the Internet's favorite telemarketing troll, And it's about this chat 716 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: bot named Lenny that has kind of developed this cult following, 717 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,360 Speaker 1: and it essentially like kind of beats the robo callers 718 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,279 Speaker 1: or telemarketers or at their own game by sort of 719 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 1: playing ben what you might refer to as reindeer games 720 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: with them and sort of like some of the lines 721 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 1: that you were talking about, can you hear me? Hello? 722 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,680 Speaker 1: Are you still there? You know, things like that that's 723 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,400 Speaker 1: sort of like illicit certain responses from either the AI 724 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 1: or whatever you wanna call it on the other end, 725 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,360 Speaker 1: or or the human and it's just sort of a 726 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 1: way of kind of messing with them a little bit. 727 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,680 Speaker 1: And then of course, obviously they're not going to get 728 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,640 Speaker 1: your your voice because you're using Lenny. But it was 729 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,279 Speaker 1: developed in two thousand nine. There's some I T like 730 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,880 Speaker 1: an anonymous I T worker, uh, developed it because of 731 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 1: frustration with the horrible job frankly that the the FCC 732 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,080 Speaker 1: has done with regulating robot calls and all that you do. 733 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 1: You're do, You're right, Matt, I mean, what happened to 734 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:14,520 Speaker 1: the do not Call list? What happened to this not 735 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,440 Speaker 1: being a thing anymore? It's worse now than it's ever been, 736 00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,560 Speaker 1: and much more. Um what's the word predatory? You know, 737 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,440 Speaker 1: like with the way it it targets the elderly, um 738 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: and tries to get you know, identifying information for for 739 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,719 Speaker 1: ripping people off for you know, their bank accounts or that. 740 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:34,920 Speaker 1: It seems I don't know, maybe I'm just seeing it 741 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,359 Speaker 1: more now, but uh this article did this is from 742 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,800 Speaker 1: eighteen start with a stat at the New York Times 743 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 1: UM had reported that there were three point four billion 744 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:50,760 Speaker 1: monthly robot calls at the time. Yeah, it was significantly exactly, 745 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:55,279 Speaker 1: that was right. Uh So this is my theory. Tell 746 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,759 Speaker 1: me what you guys think. I think the telephone is 747 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:03,120 Speaker 1: an older technology. Um, the actual telephone part of it. 748 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,920 Speaker 1: I think younger people are using the text features and 749 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,600 Speaker 1: social media and other ways to communicate with one another 750 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,759 Speaker 1: because the actual phone calling feature on these phones is 751 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 1: used by an older generation, older people that these these 752 00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,440 Speaker 1: predators really in some cases predators. In some cases it's 753 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,600 Speaker 1: people trying to do a legitimate business through phone calls 754 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,880 Speaker 1: and hopefully one out of every five hundred picks up 755 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:34,560 Speaker 1: and says and actually talks to them. Um. I think 756 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,360 Speaker 1: they're focusing on the phone because it is the older generation. 757 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,399 Speaker 1: They had been with land lines for a long time, 758 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,360 Speaker 1: but now cell phones are old enough where they're going 759 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,920 Speaker 1: to be people in there, you know, they were in 760 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 1: their forties when the cell phone was invented. The first 761 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 1: major cell phones that were accessible were invented. Now they're 762 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:58,440 Speaker 1: in their sixties seventies, and they're more at risk. I guess, 763 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,759 Speaker 1: for at least the people who mean to ferry, who 764 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,759 Speaker 1: have nefarious purposes. I wouldn't I wouldn't even call that 765 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,759 Speaker 1: a theory, though, Oh a million percent. It's a perfect observation. 766 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,759 Speaker 1: And then you're absolutely right. And especially with things like 767 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,120 Speaker 1: the pandemic and people being home more and um being 768 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 1: able to kind of create. Oh, there's everything's crazy now. 769 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,320 Speaker 1: Therefore I would be more willing to accept the potential 770 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,920 Speaker 1: of somebody offering me a helping hand or or or 771 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:28,960 Speaker 1: are there being a problem with my bank? My mom 772 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,880 Speaker 1: got one from like Amazon, and I'm like, mom, Amazon 773 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,880 Speaker 1: doesn't call anybody like it just doesn't happen, you know. 774 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:40,239 Speaker 1: Uh and um. But but this this Lenny chatbot. It's 775 00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,760 Speaker 1: a programming with sixteen stock phrases and it's really simple. 776 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,680 Speaker 1: It just plays them in order. The first four are 777 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,040 Speaker 1: like kind of to encourage the telemarket to continue on 778 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,600 Speaker 1: with their sales pitch, and then the last twelve phrases 779 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,440 Speaker 1: are played in a loop. Until the telemarketer hangs up 780 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,520 Speaker 1: in a rage. So that's sort of the idea to 781 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,920 Speaker 1: really dis mess with them, and all it listens for 782 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:04,920 Speaker 1: the only the only tech behind it really is that 783 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,040 Speaker 1: it listens for a one and a half second pause 784 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,719 Speaker 1: in conversations, so it knows when to say the next 785 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,440 Speaker 1: phrase and begin the sequence of loop of looped phrases. 786 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:18,160 Speaker 1: I'd like to um without going into why the do 787 00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:23,920 Speaker 1: not Call registry became so ineffective. If you're listening and you, 788 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,480 Speaker 1: like many people are receiving unsolicited calls, if you're like 789 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,040 Speaker 1: if you're like me and you've got a bunch of 790 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:34,480 Speaker 1: Mandarin or Cantonese before, or if you're receiving things like 791 00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,399 Speaker 1: fake Amazon calls or fake I R S calls, which 792 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,320 Speaker 1: can be very scary for people. I'd like to empower 793 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,000 Speaker 1: you with some steps that you can take. Uh, These 794 00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,600 Speaker 1: con artists and criminals depend on you not taking the 795 00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,240 Speaker 1: time to report them. That's what it is. It's time 796 00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,000 Speaker 1: the burden of this has been pushed onto the consumer 797 00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,399 Speaker 1: or the victim first. As I think we've established, when 798 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,360 Speaker 1: you get illegal calls, when you get these weird calls, 799 00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,560 Speaker 1: just hang up if you answer it, and it's and 800 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,520 Speaker 1: it feels off putting. Hang up. Don't give them the 801 00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:11,880 Speaker 1: gift of your voice just in case. And I know 802 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,560 Speaker 1: that sounds paranoid, but don't do it. You can also 803 00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,799 Speaker 1: report calls still that this part has not been dismantled. 804 00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,279 Speaker 1: You can go to very simple do not call dot 805 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:28,000 Speaker 1: g O V. Or you can call eight eight eight 806 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:34,640 Speaker 1: three eight two one to two two the last for 807 00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 1: a couple of things. They're all legit. They'll ask you 808 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,719 Speaker 1: to give your phone number the last to say when 809 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,759 Speaker 1: you received this unwanted call, and they'll ask whether it 810 00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,600 Speaker 1: was recorded robocall or if there's any other information you 811 00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:51,560 Speaker 1: can give. They get a lot of reports for this. Uh, 812 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,160 Speaker 1: they are backlogged. Um. I can only imagine there have 813 00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:59,120 Speaker 1: been a bunch of funding cuts because advertisers, you know, 814 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,160 Speaker 1: want to be able to do this, So there's lobbying 815 00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:06,000 Speaker 1: against people not being able to be called. But there 816 00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:10,160 Speaker 1: there are real actionable fines. Violations are punishable by something 817 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,920 Speaker 1: like a little less than forty two grand per call 818 00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,000 Speaker 1: when these folks get caught. So to be clear, it 819 00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,680 Speaker 1: is illegal, like the practice of it. William says, you 820 00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:20,800 Speaker 1: don't get any of that money. Of course, but the 821 00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,440 Speaker 1: the practice is illegal, but there are a lot of loopholes, 822 00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,719 Speaker 1: but phone solicitation isn't illegal. Like if my friend of 823 00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,120 Speaker 1: mine used to work for the Fraternal Order of Police, 824 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,440 Speaker 1: you know that organization that has like the stickers for supporters. 825 00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,000 Speaker 1: It looks like a book, a badge. Um, I don't 826 00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,440 Speaker 1: know exactly what they do. It's so like literally I 827 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,160 Speaker 1: think like a lobby kind of for cops or so 828 00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,759 Speaker 1: or like a no nonprofit that raises money for I'm 829 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,160 Speaker 1: not a sure exactly. The point is he did cold calls. 830 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,920 Speaker 1: That is that is that legal? Like that that's legal, right, 831 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,360 Speaker 1: it's just the robot calls and the I'm just I 832 00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:56,120 Speaker 1: truly don't Obviously it must be if it's a organization 833 00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,719 Speaker 1: that you know employs humans. Yeah, even you know, even 834 00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,239 Speaker 1: if you do get yourself on the National do not 835 00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:08,920 Speaker 1: Call Registry, there are charities that can call you, political 836 00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:14,920 Speaker 1: groups obviously, debt collectors, people doing national surveys, local surveys, 837 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,160 Speaker 1: they may call you. And there are there's some people 838 00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:23,080 Speaker 1: that they do not call registry isn't effective on like 839 00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:31,760 Speaker 1: also you can't. It's a complex legislative endeavor to totally 840 00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:36,640 Speaker 1: cut off the possibility of unsolicited calls without somehow accidentally 841 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:40,680 Speaker 1: saying we've made it illegal for the average person to 842 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:44,040 Speaker 1: call people, like that's how phones work. You can't you 843 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,040 Speaker 1: can't make that illegal. That's why, that's why people get 844 00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:53,839 Speaker 1: into incredibly hilarious, very Vonnegut esque situations that they used 845 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,040 Speaker 1: to back in the day, when people would like call 846 00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,440 Speaker 1: that pay phone in the middle of nowhere in the desert, 847 00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,080 Speaker 1: or when people would accidentally and this really happened, when 848 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,239 Speaker 1: they would accidentally call Norad like they would get they 849 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,239 Speaker 1: get the wrong number, and then there would be some 850 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,920 Speaker 1: hard case on the other end who was like, are 851 00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:18,080 Speaker 1: we go red Tango? Like is this Dominoes? How did 852 00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,359 Speaker 1: you get this number? And then they traced them back. 853 00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,760 Speaker 1: I mean, this stuff happens, but um, the hilarity aside 854 00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:27,080 Speaker 1: it is. It is a serious problem. The frankin biting 855 00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,040 Speaker 1: is not just for reality television. That's really what we're 856 00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:34,640 Speaker 1: talking about. Yeah, you're right, um, or stealing podcasters voices 857 00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:38,440 Speaker 1: and using them for nefarious purposes, don't do that, please. UM. 858 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:40,520 Speaker 1: I want I want to tell you guys really quickly. 859 00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:42,480 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen this thing called robo 860 00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,800 Speaker 1: killer that has been around for quite a while. No, 861 00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,920 Speaker 1: but it's a really awesome name. Yes, I believe it's 862 00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,160 Speaker 1: an app. I know it's a website. Yes, it's an 863 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,600 Speaker 1: app you can put on your phone and what it 864 00:53:54,880 --> 00:54:00,920 Speaker 1: It's really cool. It's identified a million plus spammers and 865 00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,280 Speaker 1: and other groups that make calls all the time. Frequently 866 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,880 Speaker 1: those groups that are calling are spoofing their numbers, so 867 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,879 Speaker 1: it looks as though it's coming from a local number 868 00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:14,880 Speaker 1: or from somewhere else, um, and it wouldn't be easily 869 00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,560 Speaker 1: identified as like, oh, that's a spam number. But what 870 00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,040 Speaker 1: robo Killer does is it's got a database of all 871 00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,799 Speaker 1: of these groups and numbers, and then it recognizes them 872 00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,879 Speaker 1: as they're coming into your phone and it answers them 873 00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,600 Speaker 1: essentially as the app, and it will give you a 874 00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,560 Speaker 1: notification and tells you. It will tell you, hey, um, 875 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,840 Speaker 1: a fake Apple agent just called you, but we stopped it. 876 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:40,759 Speaker 1: And one of the best things is that it does 877 00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:44,920 Speaker 1: what Lenny does, the thing we're discussing earlier. It actually 878 00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,600 Speaker 1: will keep um, a telemarketer or somebody whoever it is, 879 00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:50,719 Speaker 1: on the phone for as long as it can to 880 00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,200 Speaker 1: get as much information from that line as it can. 881 00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:59,040 Speaker 1: So it's basically a reverse what what is that called? UM, 882 00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,279 Speaker 1: it's gonna do what the what the spammer is trying 883 00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:04,920 Speaker 1: to do to you? Instead of getting you to talk, 884 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,759 Speaker 1: it's getting them to talk, and it's gaining as much 885 00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:11,040 Speaker 1: information as it can. Just really interesting stuff. And we're 886 00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,719 Speaker 1: not sponsored by robot Killer, by the way, but reach 887 00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,960 Speaker 1: out to us if you're interested. I'm just really pleased 888 00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,040 Speaker 1: that this email generated so much interesting conversation. And we 889 00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,920 Speaker 1: don't often get to kind of like discover a thing 890 00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,160 Speaker 1: at the same time like this. This was a lot 891 00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:30,040 Speaker 1: of fun and terrifying. But you know, I'm not gonna 892 00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:32,040 Speaker 1: let it keep us up at night. And honestly, I 893 00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,040 Speaker 1: so rarely answer those calls and and and it really 894 00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:37,600 Speaker 1: is about educating yourself as far as like you know, uh, 895 00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,239 Speaker 1: if you if you have parents or grandparents or whatever. 896 00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,000 Speaker 1: I just you know, it sounds weird like you can't 897 00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:47,760 Speaker 1: have that talk, you know about about um getting scammed, 898 00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,759 Speaker 1: you know, with these with these robot calls. Klee, I 899 00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:54,360 Speaker 1: want to hang out with your husband's because yeah, do 900 00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,239 Speaker 1: you do seem cool too? Yeah? Oh yeah, yeah, let's 901 00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,040 Speaker 1: hang out with everybody, because uh, this is one of 902 00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:04,560 Speaker 1: those things that it's you know, we we basically predicted 903 00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:09,000 Speaker 1: this in previous episodes. Uh, but we have to remember, 904 00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,520 Speaker 1: you know, everybody lives in a bubble of their own. 905 00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:13,960 Speaker 1: So if you have someone in your life who is 906 00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,400 Speaker 1: maybe a little bit of a technophobe or not on 907 00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,360 Speaker 1: the cutting edge, do help them out with this. Do 908 00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:22,959 Speaker 1: let them know that there are resources, there are ways 909 00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:28,200 Speaker 1: to empower oneself. And most importantly, I would say, remember, 910 00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,480 Speaker 1: no matter what it sounds like, you do not know 911 00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,279 Speaker 1: who is on that other end of the phone, right 912 00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,680 Speaker 1: who's on the other side, And you don't know how 913 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:41,640 Speaker 1: many other ears are between you and that ultimate other side. 914 00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,719 Speaker 1: So I would say, just be careful. We have we 915 00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:49,080 Speaker 1: owe it to ourselves. Since the legislation will inevitably be 916 00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:53,719 Speaker 1: outpaced by the innovation, the burden of safety falls on 917 00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:57,600 Speaker 1: us as the end users, and the information we have 918 00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,960 Speaker 1: now may well be outdated next year because this is 919 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,960 Speaker 1: evolving at a breakneck pace. I said it before, I'll 920 00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:08,040 Speaker 1: say it again. Uh uh, And there you have it, folks. 921 00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:11,680 Speaker 1: We here's hoping, uh we don't dig up any ancient 922 00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:16,760 Speaker 1: primordial beaster infections. Uh. Here is hoping that we don't 923 00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,400 Speaker 1: get any curses. Although we do want to hear about 924 00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,960 Speaker 1: yours and uh, most importantly, here's hoping that we can 925 00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:27,919 Speaker 1: hear from you. We do listener mail every week, which 926 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,360 Speaker 1: means we need your help. You can find us any 927 00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:35,200 Speaker 1: number of ways. You can find us on the internet. Yes, 928 00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,720 Speaker 1: it is actually us, uh Facebook, go to Here's where 929 00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:43,440 Speaker 1: it Gets Crazy, Twitter, Instagram where conspiracy stuff on Twitter, 930 00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:47,320 Speaker 1: Where conspiracy stuff show on Instagram. And you can go 931 00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,439 Speaker 1: to Here's where it Gets Crazy. That is our Facebook group. 932 00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,360 Speaker 1: Check it out. You can talk about this episode or 933 00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:58,360 Speaker 1: any others with your fellow conspiracy realists. You know, Hayley's 934 00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,120 Speaker 1: husband is on there somewhere. We got it. We got 935 00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:01,600 Speaker 1: to find him. I'm sure he's on Here's Where he 936 00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,600 Speaker 1: Gets Crazy. But now for a long I hope this, 937 00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,720 Speaker 1: uh hope this, This showed him that we are we 938 00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,680 Speaker 1: are peas in a pod, the four of us. So yeah, 939 00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:12,760 Speaker 1: I don't know. Give give give the show a shot, 940 00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:15,680 Speaker 1: Hayley's husband. If you don't want to do that stuff, 941 00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:17,560 Speaker 1: you can give us a call. Our number is one 942 00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:22,440 Speaker 1: eight three three st d w y t K. Leave 943 00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:26,040 Speaker 1: us a message. Again, we need your help. Anything you 944 00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,080 Speaker 1: want to talk about, any story you want to hit 945 00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,240 Speaker 1: us to anything that you think we would find interesting 946 00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:34,800 Speaker 1: or blow our minds or just give us a chuckle. 947 00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:36,760 Speaker 1: Please leave a message. We'd love to hear from you. 948 00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:41,920 Speaker 1: And hey, don't forget We're back on YouTube. Um, significant 949 00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:45,680 Speaker 1: meaningful clips from the show. We'll be posted on YouTube, 950 00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,360 Speaker 1: I think every day of the week, right, Uh, a 951 00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,600 Speaker 1: new video every day for you to check out. I've 952 00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,840 Speaker 1: really been enjoying this. And then there, you know, and 953 00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:54,400 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe we'll get to a point where 954 00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:57,440 Speaker 1: maybe we'll start doing some some new exclusive content that 955 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:03,120 Speaker 1: isn't available on the podcast itself. Who knows anything could happen, 956 00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:06,920 Speaker 1: but check us out at YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff. Hey, 957 00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,560 Speaker 1: if you want some conspiracy stuff swag, go to te public. 958 00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,520 Speaker 1: For the love of god, we never mentioned T public enough. 959 00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:17,800 Speaker 1: Buy a shirt, a mouse, pat, a cuzy, a soup spoon. 960 00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:21,440 Speaker 1: They failed. They'll print our stuff on anything at T public. 961 00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:26,520 Speaker 1: It's true, it's true, and the stuff on there looks great. Um, yeah, 962 00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,120 Speaker 1: support the show. That's that'd be really cool. And if 963 00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:32,680 Speaker 1: you don't want to do any of that actually said, 964 00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,560 Speaker 1: it's a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at 965 00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:56,680 Speaker 1: I Heart radio dot com. Stuff They Don't Want You 966 00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,360 Speaker 1: To Know is a production of I heart Radio. For 967 00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:01,560 Speaker 1: more podcas asks from my heart Radio, visit the i 968 01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,520 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 969 01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:05,360 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.