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Speaker 1: If I can have everybody answer the same question, you know,

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Speaker 1: what do you come to work to do every day?

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Speaker 1: And the answer to that is because we're the custodians

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Speaker 1: and we're responsible for the savings and the pensions of

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Speaker 1: real people like my mom and dad and the old

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Speaker 1: moment dad, then we do a better job every day.

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Speaker 2: It's the world's largest listed hedge fund manager, and after

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Speaker 2: two hundred and forty years in existence, Man Group has

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Speaker 2: a woman in charge for the very first time. Robin

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Speaker 2: Grew was promoted from president to chief executive last September,

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Speaker 2: the high point of a fifteen year career at the firm.

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Speaker 2: The former barrister entered the world of finance three decades

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Speaker 2: ago and never left.

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Speaker 1: The speed of change, the impact, the global nature, the

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Speaker 1: challenge of it just never stopped getting more and more

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Speaker 1: infectious for me.

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Speaker 2: In this episode of Leaders with Lacua, I speak to

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Speaker 2: Robin Grew about diversity, purpose and what the future holds

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Speaker 2: in an ever changing world. Robin Grew, thank you so

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Speaker 2: much for joining us on Leaders. The world is a

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Speaker 2: bit strange. There are so many poly crises or whatever

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Speaker 2: you want to call it. It's just difficult to get

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Speaker 2: a handle of what comes next.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that would be the shortest answer I could

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Speaker 1: ever give. Yes, it is difficult. I think that if

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Speaker 1: this year has taught us anything, it's that prediction is

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Speaker 1: not our strongest suit perhaps, and that isn't just in

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Speaker 1: relation to markets. It's in relation to these big geopolitical

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Speaker 1: events that we are still living with.

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Speaker 2: But it's quite incredible to think that we're in a

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Speaker 2: better place and we thought. I feel like every six

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Speaker 2: months there's like the Doom and Gloom crew saying this

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Speaker 2: is it. Interest rates have gone too much, we need

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Speaker 2: to reevaluate what happens next, and yet the economy holds.

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Speaker 3: I think that's right.

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Speaker 1: I think when we talk about it and we have

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Speaker 1: this conversation about higher for longer, which I still say

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Speaker 1: out loud and then cross my fingers in some ways

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Speaker 1: that there's maybe I'm going to be entirely wrong, but

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Speaker 1: higher for longer. I think where the nuance is in

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Speaker 1: that message is that what we're unlikely to see is

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Speaker 1: zero percent. We're probably unlikely to see two percent. We

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Speaker 1: may see some fifty basis points adjustments for sure, But

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Speaker 1: I think what we have been signaled clearly from central

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Speaker 1: banks is that they're not frightened of using policy to

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Speaker 1: control inflation or to try and respond to inflation. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's the messaging we should all kind of

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Speaker 1: get used to last ten years zero percent free money,

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Speaker 1: next ten years higher for longer with that slight nuance

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Speaker 1: in a way that I describe.

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Speaker 2: And I imagine that twenty twenty four it could be

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Speaker 2: difficult because of volatility and dispersion, and yeah, yes, so

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Speaker 2: it makes it harder actually to manage money.

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Speaker 3: I think it does.

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Speaker 1: And I think the denomination effect that we saw because

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Speaker 1: of the kind of the hiccups in the system with

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Speaker 1: the banking crisis or with LDI, that also put a

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Speaker 1: premium back into liquidity. So what's your duration risk, what's

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Speaker 1: your liquidity risk? How do you manage through these different

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Speaker 1: economic cycles? And are you prepared or are you ready

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Speaker 1: for hedging, which means that you know, let's remember what

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Speaker 1: that means. It means that at times you're going to

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Speaker 1: do well and at times you're not going to do

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Speaker 1: well with the entirety of your portfolio. And that's okay.

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Speaker 1: That actually managing your portfolio for these different changing economic

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Speaker 1: cycles or behaviors is what you're supposed to be doing and.

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Speaker 2: Does it change how you lead man group?

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Speaker 1: It changes because of the way that we position the organization.

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Speaker 1: We are an organization that is diverse, Our capabilities are diverse.

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Speaker 1: We have different engines doing different things. Bid in the

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Speaker 1: quantside or on that fundamental discretionary side. We have products

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Speaker 1: that are in the macrospace, products that are in equities.

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Speaker 1: We are long only, we are long short. But what

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Speaker 1: we are seeing is our clients are in in more

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Speaker 1: customized solutions, in solutions that actually answer the problem they've

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Speaker 1: got or the challenge they have, rather than here's a

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Speaker 1: product by that or nothing else. So it changes in

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Speaker 1: the way that you deliver an organization. It changes in

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Speaker 1: the fact that the value you're driving towards is not

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Speaker 1: just about here's a product, but it's a here's a solution.

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Speaker 2: So what does it mean in how you're focusing your energy?

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Speaker 2: Aren't in twenty twenty four? I know you want to

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Speaker 2: be in the private credit space, but I guess hiring

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Speaker 2: is also something that you need to think of.

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Speaker 3: Care We don't make widgets.

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Speaker 1: Are what we have are highly talented individuals who were

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Speaker 1: focused on being the very best they can be in

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Speaker 1: the workplace and delivering what they do. And that can

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Speaker 1: be alpha in our engines, or it can be in

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Speaker 1: our operations and middle office department, or it can be

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Speaker 1: in our legal department. It's about a war on talent.

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Speaker 1: So hiring the very best people, retaining keeping those people,

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Speaker 1: giving them opportunit unity, giving them a space where they

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Speaker 1: can be the very best they can be is incredibly important.

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Speaker 1: So it's tech, it's talent, its vision. It's about knowing

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Speaker 1: that when people come to work every day, every single

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Speaker 1: person at man group adds value and is valued.

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Speaker 3: That's important.

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Speaker 1: It's that moment if I can have everybody answer the

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Speaker 1: same question, you know, what do you come to work

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Speaker 1: to do every day? And the answer to that is

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Speaker 1: because with the custodians and we're responsible for the savings

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Speaker 1: and the pensions, are real people like my mom and

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Speaker 1: dad and your mom and dad, then we do a

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Speaker 1: better job every day.

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Speaker 2: So how do you hire again? You know, there's a

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Speaker 2: war on talent all there's a battle to get the

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Speaker 2: very best. So what do they want?

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Speaker 1: They want so depends. I think that's the one size

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Speaker 1: doesn't fit all thing. Who doesn't want to be around

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Speaker 1: really smart people? Number one, who doesn't want to be

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Speaker 1: around a place which values your input. Who doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to be in a place that doesn't seek to be

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Speaker 1: better today than it was yesterday and better tomorrow than

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Speaker 1: it is today. Who doesn't want to be around a

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Speaker 1: place which is actually interested in you as a person

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Speaker 1: and interested in being capable of making you better. So

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Speaker 1: where do we go? We go broad, we go wide.

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Speaker 1: We look for difference, We look for energy and excitement

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Speaker 1: that person who's able to get energized.

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Speaker 2: You don't always hear that from a big finance chief executive.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm not reception for finance.

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Speaker 1: I think finance hasn't done as good a job as

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Speaker 1: we might in explaining the value we bring to society

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Speaker 1: more generally. I don't cure cancer. That's not what I do.

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Speaker 1: I wish I could. I mean, I wish I was

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Speaker 1: that smart and capable to do that. But what we

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Speaker 1: do is protect and enrich the savings and the pensions

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Speaker 1: of people, people who have worked incredibly hard all of

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Speaker 1: their lives and diligently put money aside in their four

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Speaker 1: oh one k or wherever it may be. And we're

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Speaker 1: entrusted with that and we can give them if we

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Speaker 1: do our job well, financial security. We can provide something

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Speaker 1: that enables legacy investing. It enables access to healthcare, to education,

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Speaker 1: to a roof over your head, to pay the bills

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Speaker 1: to one of those things. That's a pretty important thing

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Speaker 1: to do.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's amazing. You seem to be filled with

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Speaker 2: a big sense of purpose, which you don't often get

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Speaker 2: from headfunt managers.

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Speaker 3: I have a big sense of purpose.

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Speaker 1: I run a firm that has a big sense of purpose,

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Speaker 1: and I think that energy is something we should put

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Speaker 1: to work. When I sit down with big allocators and

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Speaker 1: we talk about what is we're both trying to.

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Speaker 3: Do, it's the same. I think.

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Speaker 1: The day we forget that and the day that I

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Speaker 1: think about our numbers in the sort of the institutional

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Speaker 1: size numbers that we all talk about, we lose a.

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Speaker 3: Bit of that sense of what we're here to do properly.

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Speaker 2: Coming up Robin Blue unadapting to change in an uncertain future.

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Speaker 1: I'm not good at predicting what the next year or

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Speaker 1: the next five year is going to be. What we

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Speaker 1: need to do is be flexible, is to understand and

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Speaker 1: be dynamic, to think about the impact of markets and changes.

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Speaker 2: From renewed geopolitical risks, to climate change, a new era

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Speaker 2: for interest rates, and a different working reality. The world

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Speaker 2: of finance is also adapting to change. I continue the

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Speaker 2: conversation with Man Group Chief executive Robin Greu. Do you

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Speaker 2: worry about what the future economic I guess footprint looks

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Speaker 2: like for the world.

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Speaker 1: So our job is to say, how do we think

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Speaker 1: about what could happen? How do you stress your portfolio?

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Speaker 1: How do you think about what you're out? Are today

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Speaker 1: people drawing their pensions today versus drawing their pensions fifty

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Speaker 1: years from now. Man Group is two hundred and forty

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Speaker 1: years old. We match the duration rather neatly of some

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Speaker 1: of our clients who aren't thinking about just returns for

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Speaker 1: a year from now, but are trying to think about

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Speaker 1: what they're planning for thirty years from now.

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Speaker 3: We're not good at predicting.

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Speaker 1: I'm not good at predicting what the next year or

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Speaker 1: the next five years going to be. What we need

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Speaker 1: to do is be flexible, is to understand and be dynamic,

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Speaker 1: to think about the impact of markets and changes.

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Speaker 2: Are you more worried about geopolitics or about market functioning?

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Speaker 1: I think the fact that we've now changed geopolitics to

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Speaker 1: duoeconomics is something of an impact point. So as we

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Speaker 1: think about what happened when Russia invaded Ukraine and the

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Speaker 1: impact on our fossil fuel pricing, or you think about

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Speaker 1: the worries and concerns around supply chains post COVID and

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Speaker 1: the fact that these buffers. When you think about corporate

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Speaker 1: real estate and the refinancing that is inevitable. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's not a thirty year mortgage. These are things coming

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Speaker 1: up for refinance within the next three four five years.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot of money is being put to work.

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Speaker 1: And we're in an environment where we look out.

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Speaker 3: Onto the city.

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Speaker 1: Office buildings are in a different place and I have

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Speaker 1: a different level of occupancy than we've seen before. So

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Speaker 1: these are big changes and due economics, I think, and

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Speaker 1: things that we have to take into consideration.

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Speaker 2: What do you worry about the most. Do you have

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Speaker 2: like a ranking or is it almost one and the same.

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Speaker 2: It's just this huge transformation and change.

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Speaker 1: I think it is a transformation and change. I think

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Speaker 1: that we're going to see credit markets playing a role.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's a short term thing. I think

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Speaker 1: that's a real term thing. I think if you see

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Speaker 1: lending tightening, You're going to see a stiller need for

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Speaker 1: financing out there. But it isn't that all things are

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Speaker 1: created equal. I'm a big proponent of active management. I

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Speaker 1: am a big proponent of credit. But not every active

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Speaker 1: manager and not every expert is going to be able

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Speaker 1: to deliver in these environments. There is expertise and skill needed.

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Speaker 1: How do I think about prioritization. I think about priorities

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Speaker 1: in terms of capabilities. I think about being as skilled

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Speaker 1: as we can be in data, in analytics, in tech,

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Speaker 1: in credit, in multiple asset classes, and then being able

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Speaker 1: to pivot those do I think that's where I think

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Speaker 1: about things. But do I think about that's the number

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Speaker 1: one thing I'm focusing on. I don't have the luxury

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Speaker 1: of that. I think we have to think about all

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Speaker 1: of these things.

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Speaker 2: I mean, are looking at acquisitions to be in certain spaces.

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Speaker 1: We have always said that we will grow the firm

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Speaker 1: organically and we will always look for acquisitions to increase

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Speaker 1: our capability on content for clients. I think what's interesting

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Speaker 1: as we completed our acquisition with a private credit manager

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Speaker 1: in the US in the middle markets, I think what's

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Speaker 1: interesting is that the multiples look more interesting. I think

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Speaker 1: we've been talking about consolidation. We have been talking about

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Speaker 1: consolidation since the GFC.

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Speaker 3: Since the GFC. I mean, this is.

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Speaker 1: One of those points I'm going to perhaps want to

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Speaker 1: laugh about in a few years time from now. But

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Speaker 1: I actually think as we look at the barriers to

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Speaker 1: entry in this space, if we look about the cost

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Speaker 1: of running our businesses, if we think about the scale

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Speaker 1: that we need to operate at, I think, and the

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Speaker 1: multiples that we're starting to see coming down, I think

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Speaker 1: this could be an interesting time for consolidation.

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Speaker 2: But why has it been a long time coming? Is

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Speaker 2: it regulation or there was just no appetite or I

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Speaker 2: think it wasn't I think.

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Speaker 1: I think when when cash is free, it softens that.

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Speaker 1: I think the moment where people need to deploy at scale.

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Speaker 3: In liquid markets has been something that's softened.

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Speaker 1: If you look at the trends, trend has been in passive,

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Speaker 1: it's been in private equity. If you think about the

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Speaker 1: number of assets that no longer sit in the public domain,

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Speaker 1: that's been our themes over the last ten years. I

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Speaker 1: think when private coudy doesn't have quite as much cash,

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Speaker 1: when that raising is harder, When lending is harder. These

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Speaker 1: opportunities for niche spaces and expertise to come about, and

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Speaker 1: they want scale.

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Speaker 3: They need to be able.

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Speaker 1: To operate at scale and having an organization that can

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Speaker 1: deliver the amount of scale we put in play. The

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Speaker 1: bit that perhaps is less sexy and exciting, but that infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: the ability to take businesses and grow.

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Speaker 3: Them, that's what we do. What do you think of

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Speaker 3: the city of London.

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Speaker 2: Well, lose a bit of a luster, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: it can offer. Like where do you see it in

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Speaker 2: five years?

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Speaker 1: You're looking at a UK right, you're talking to a

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Speaker 1: UK listed CEO. So I could not be more interested

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Speaker 1: in UKPLC. I think we have held such an extraordinary

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Speaker 1: position in financial markets and generally, so anything we can

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Speaker 1: do to keep that shine I think is important.

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Speaker 3: But competition is.

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Speaker 1: High and we shouldn't in the way that we shouldn't

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Speaker 1: in our firms sit in our hands and think that

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Speaker 1: all of our history is going to count for long

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Speaker 1: if we don't keep running. So I'm a great believer

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Speaker 1: that we drive and continue to drive uk PLC. There

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Speaker 1: is such a lot of innovation and creativity and growth here.

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Speaker 1: That's such a lot of expertise that sits in these

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Speaker 1: small shores. So anything we can do to keep that

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Speaker 1: alive and keep it that it's top game, I'm all for.

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Speaker 1: But we operate as a global organization and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go where there is strong capability to invest, where

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Speaker 1: the markets are deeper, where the clients need us to be,

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Speaker 1: and where we can find opportunity, and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: continue to look for that. But I'm a UK listed

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Speaker 1: CEO who can't help but want this to be great.

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Speaker 2: To up next. Robin grew on being a female leader

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Speaker 2: in an industry traditionally dominated by men.

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Speaker 1: I am hopeful that we're going to see a better

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Speaker 1: reflection of difference at the top of every organization.

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Speaker 3: Be financial services are bordering.

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Speaker 2: That women make up less than a quarter of employees

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Speaker 2: at the thousands of hedge funds and other alternative investment

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Speaker 2: firms globally. They're even more of a minority in senior positions.

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Speaker 2: So when Man Group appointed an all female leadership team

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Speaker 2: last year, it marked a massive shift for the company

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Speaker 2: and a milestone for the industry. I continue the conversation

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Speaker 2: with Robin Group. Robin two hundred and forty years old. Yes,

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Speaker 2: Group is and your first female the first female Yes,

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Speaker 2: chief executive of an institution's at two hundred and forty

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Speaker 2: years old.

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Speaker 3: Yes, is it?

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Speaker 2: You know, should it have been earlier?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 2: Are you optimistic about the future for females and finance?

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Speaker 1: I am hopeful that we're going to say a better

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Speaker 1: reflect of difference at the top of every organization, be

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Speaker 1: it financial services, are broader than that. Has it been

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Speaker 1: a long time coming? I can't help but say, listen,

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Speaker 1: it would be terrific It I see more female CEOs

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Speaker 1: before me.

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Speaker 3: I hope we're going to see a lot after me.

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Speaker 1: But differences is important, and I think anything that enables

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Speaker 1: us to put the most talented people at the top

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Speaker 1: of organizations and to lead those organizations with enthusiasm and

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Speaker 1: capability is what we're after. So I'm hopeful that I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm knocking down some doors, barriers, seedlings.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the first time someone meet to you, it's

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Speaker 2: like the infectious energy right that people notice?

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Speaker 1: Yes, is that how you lead? I? Yes, it was

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Speaker 1: one of those things. I have been accused of being

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Speaker 1: many things over my time, but that sort of slight

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Speaker 1: duri cell Bunny ever already really looked at those battery.

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Speaker 3: Things just keep on going.

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Speaker 1: I'm a bit that I have an enthusiasm for what

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Speaker 1: we do and a passion for what we do. It

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Speaker 1: is sometimes like I'm a big boom in the room,

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Speaker 1: but it's something that I think is incredibly important. You

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Speaker 1: don't do this job ninety eight percent. You do this

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Speaker 1: job if you can. This is where my mathematicians hate

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Speaker 1: me when I say anything larger than one hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: But it's one hundred percent plus.

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Speaker 2: Were you always like that or something that you've learned?

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Speaker 1: It's just natural, yes, And to some excentse it's what's

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Speaker 1: forged my career. That willingness and that excitement to learn

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Speaker 1: and to be part of fixing things doing things better

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Speaker 1: has been somewhat of a hallmark. I have a ridiculous

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Speaker 1: enjoyment for learning and doing things. You know, I walk

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Speaker 1: into any organization or any of our offices, and in

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Speaker 1: the short journey, thankfully in London that you have from

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Speaker 1: the zero to the fifth floor, if there's somebody in

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Speaker 1: the elevator with me, I'm asking questions.

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Speaker 3: You know, they can't wait to get out of the

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Speaker 3: door by the end of it.

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Speaker 1: In some ways, but it's that interesting. What's going on

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Speaker 1: and what's happening, and it's an interesting people. I fundamentally

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Speaker 1: am driven by being interested in the people I work

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Speaker 1: with and in the people who we're here to work for.

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Speaker 2: So you started as a criminal barrister, I did? And

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Speaker 2: then when to financed three decades ago?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, something like that.

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Speaker 2: That's what made you switch.

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Speaker 3: The thing was this.

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Speaker 1: I loved being an advocate, and perhaps I think I'm

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Speaker 1: still an advocate.

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Speaker 3: In many ways.

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Speaker 1: So what happened was I was in the criminal and

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Speaker 1: the civil bar and I thought, I know, I'll go

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Speaker 1: do this commerce thing. I thought to myself, and I

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Speaker 1: will go back and become a commercial barrister. And it

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Speaker 1: sucked me in and I never went back. The speed

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Speaker 1: of change, the impact, the global nature, the challenge of

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Speaker 1: it just never stopped getting more and more infectious for me.

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Speaker 1: And so that legal training, has it been useful?

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Speaker 3: Yes? Has the advocacy thing.

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Speaker 1: Been perhaps more useful, probably, But it's been just the

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Speaker 1: best journey.

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Speaker 2: Do you have bad days? And if you do, who

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Speaker 2: do you call?

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Speaker 3: Do you have a mental ghostbusters?

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Speaker 1: If I have a bad day, I've always been a

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Speaker 1: half full kind of person. Every belief I have is

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Speaker 1: that you make the best out of those tough days.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there are tough days. Of course, there are

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Speaker 1: days when I you're put a challenge in front of you,

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Speaker 1: where performance isn't great, or where I feel like we

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Speaker 1: could have done a better job. Those are moments where

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Speaker 1: you've got to move forward, you got to take the

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Speaker 1: next step forward. And that's what I do. I think

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Speaker 1: it's resilience. I think it is part and parcel of

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Speaker 1: perhaps my makeup is to be resilient.

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Speaker 3: Who do I turn to.

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Speaker 1: I turn to friends and family, and I take a

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Speaker 1: break and take a breather, although normally not very long

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Speaker 1: a breather because I just get to excit. I buy

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Speaker 1: other things, but I fill my life. I fill my

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Speaker 1: life with the things that are really positive around me.

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Speaker 1: I have a great family around me, have an extraordinary

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Speaker 1: wife and a son, and my parents and friends, and

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Speaker 1: I am enriched by that, and so that enables me

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Speaker 1: to take the next step.

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Speaker 2: Do you think there's a difference being a leader in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four to what it was like in even

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Speaker 2: twenty ten? You know, does leadership or chief executive jobs

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Speaker 2: need to come with more of a sense of purpose

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Speaker 2: and kind of morally leading?

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Speaker 1: I think that I don't know a different way of

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Speaker 1: doing it than the way I do it, and that's

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Speaker 1: with a sense of purpose.

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Speaker 3: For sure.

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Speaker 1: When you speak and you are in charge of an organization,

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Speaker 1: I think it is incumbent upon leaders to be enthused

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Speaker 1: and to be passionate and be engaged. I think when

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Speaker 1: times are tough, when things are tricky in the world,

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Speaker 1: I think it's important that you know that and that

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Speaker 1: you acknowledge that in your organizations. And we have had

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Speaker 1: some tough times in the world. Beyond markets, in the

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Speaker 1: world for people to live their lives. We run global

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Speaker 1: organizations with people who come from places that are now

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Speaker 1: in war zones or that are too close to borders,

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Speaker 1: where there are war zones, where the challenges have been

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Speaker 1: very real post COVID, or where the issues are being

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Speaker 1: felt materiity in politics, and not to acknowledge that I

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Speaker 1: think feels inauthentic.

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Speaker 2: When you're in charge of a bigger organization, it's tough

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Speaker 2: being close to your employees, Yes, how do you do that?

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Speaker 1: It's about communication, It's about being available and transparent. It's

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Speaker 1: about setting your stall out. Who are we, what are we,

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Speaker 1: what are we here to do?

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Speaker 3: And how we to do that.

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Speaker 1: How do we do that the best we can? My

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Speaker 1: view as you do it by creating extraordinary and exceptional

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Speaker 1: teams that have a focus and that understand the humanity of.

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Speaker 3: That and that that's important. To do that.

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Speaker 1: You need different people to do that. You need to

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Speaker 1: bridge because different people come with different backgrounds and different

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Speaker 1: flavors of their experience of life. It isn't an easy

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Speaker 1: thing to do. It's just a thing we should do.

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Speaker 2: It's tough, right. Also, I guess employing people that will

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Speaker 2: say no to you yes, how much do you think

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Speaker 2: of that? Actually being sprounded people to say no? This

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Speaker 2: is not a great AE.

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Speaker 3: I think it's critical.

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Speaker 1: If I'm going to have people around me, their excellence

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Speaker 1: needs to be something I hear. It's less likely. I mean,

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Speaker 1: my executive team might get cross up me at saying this,

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Speaker 1: but it's really not the most likely pool of people

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Speaker 1: my executive committee is less likely the pool of people

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Speaker 1: from which the next brilliant idea is going to sprout

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Speaker 1: and germinate. It's going to be levels and other people

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Speaker 1: within the firm.

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Speaker 3: We need to hear that.

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Speaker 1: And it's important that I am seen as capable of

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Speaker 1: listening and changing my position. There are times when I

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Speaker 1: am going to be less willing to change my position.

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Speaker 1: But having somebody who's going to come from any part

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Speaker 1: of your organization to say, hey, I feel this way

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Speaker 1: about this issue and I don't think I don't think

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Speaker 1: I'm being heard is important.

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Speaker 4: Whereas Robin grew in five years, still yourself buddying I'm

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Speaker 4: the best answer to every battery life, but perhaps on

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Speaker 4: a renewable, chargeable basis.

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Speaker 1: So where am I? I hope still leading man group.

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Speaker 1: I hope looking back on the last five years and

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00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 1: thinking how I could do it even better. I hope

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00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: driving things with the same passion and enthusiasm, and I

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Speaker 1: hope with the same brilliant set of people around me.

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Speaker 2: Robin Grew, thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: You're very welcome. Thanks for having me