WEBVTT - How Close Are We to Resurrecting a Woolly Mammoth? 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:12.080 Welcome to Part Time Genius, the production of iHeartRadio. Guess 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:12.480 what Will? 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:13.240 What's that Mango? 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.000 So did you know the world's largest bee isn't as 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.040 extinct as we thought, not as extinct we thought. 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.400 I gotta feel like that's too bad. No, it's actually 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:25.960 a good thing. How our giant monster bees a good thing. 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.680 So for starters, the vs aren't exactly monsters. They're only 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:31.600 about an inch and a half long, and they've got 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.120 a two and a half inch wingspan, so it's about 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:36.760 the size of a thumb or I guess three times 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.720 the size of the average honeybee, not the size of 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:43.040 mathras like you might be imagining. I mean maybe not. 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.000 But actually just pulled up a picture one of these 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:46.680 things while you were talking, and I have to say, 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:49.440 this is the most terrifying bee I have seen in 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.640 my life. Like, why do they have such massive pincers 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:55.080 on their faces? They almost look like these stag beetles, 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:56.000 but just creepier. 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:58.360 Yeah, So I was trying not to mention that because 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.600 it makes them look so much scarier. But they're actually 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:03.840 just used to scrape resin off trees to build their homes, 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.039 so it's not that scary. But here's what's really interesting. 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.160 The species was first discovered in Indonesia, and this was 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.199 back in eighteen fifty nine, and then nobody could find 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:15.399 it again after that, so it was just presumed to 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.640 have gone extinct. And then in nineteen eighty four, this 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:21.920 entomologist stumbled across the bees alive and well in Indonesia 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:25.240 and he collected the specimen. He wrote about discovery, but 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.399 he didn't get any video or photos, and then the 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:30.000 bees trail went cold again. 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.680 But it sounds like now somebody has found them again. 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:35.959 Is that right? Yeah, so they thought they were extinct, 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.919 but it's totally right. In January this year, this photographer 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:42.399 named Clay Bolt actually made history by finding the giant 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:44.360 bees in the wild for the very first time. And 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.880 it sounds like it was a pretty surreal experience because 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.880 apparently the female bees make this really deep thrumming sound 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.600 with their wings, so he could not only hear them, 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.240 he could actually feel the air being displaced as they 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:00.320 flew by. And it was amazing because it's really this 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:04.160 creature that he'd only ever imagined about, right, and suddenly 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:08.880 he has this super tangible and memorable experience with them. Anyway, 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.040 Clay's account got me thinking that this week it would 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:13.399 be really fun to look into creatures that had come 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:15.160 back to life. And so that's what we're going to 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:17.919 talk about, all these weird cases out there where creatures 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:34.720 seemingly died and then returned. So let's dive in. 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.200 Hey, the podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:47.359 Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:49.560 friend mangesh Hot Ticketer and on the other side of 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:52.799 that soundproof class bringing a dead fern back to life 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:54.680 at least I think that's what he's doing. That's our 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:56.760 friend and producer Tristan McNeil. 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.040 Oh, is that what he's doing. I thought Tristan just 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:00.840 brought in his neglect did the houseplant? 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:04.240 Actually, Tristan's trick only works with one kind of plant, 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:06.920 what's called a resurrection fern, which is not the fern 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.040 that he's got over there. But you know, during a 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.640 drought or a heat spell, the ferns will turn brown 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:13.720 and they shrivel up, and if you look at them, 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.600 they look completely dead. But then you just splash a 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:18.600 little water on them and press though it takes like 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:21.880 twenty four hours and the leaves unfurl, turn green again, 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:24.120 and the whole thing is good as new. I mean, 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:25.000 it's kind of like magic. 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:27.839 Yeah, it does sound like something you'd study at Hogwarts 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:29.560 in the homology class or whatever. 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.560 It's pretty cool. And even though it does seem like magic, 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.360 there is of course a scientific explanation on how these 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:39.240 ferns come back to life. These resurrection ferns never actually 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:42.360 die during this dying out process. In fact, these plants 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.280 can lose up to ninety seven percent of their water content, 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.560 and once they're exposed to water again, they'll still spring 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:50.920 right back. So you know, as long as the fern 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.440 can hold on to at least three percent of its water, 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:54.920 it actually won't die. 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.480 That's pretty incredible. So those numbers can't hold up for 0:03:57.560 --> 0:03:58.440 most plants. 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.800 Right, No, with most plants, if they lose more than 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.680 ten percent of their water, they are completely done. And 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.440 so the saving grace for resurrection ferns is, you know, 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.520 it's their ability to synthesize these special proteins called dehydrants, 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.080 and so these allow the cell walls of the plant 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:15.960 to kind of fold and unfold as needed, rather than 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.480 just cracking and crumbling like other plants do when they 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:20.919 dry out and believe it or not, that's not the 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.840 resurrection ferns only claim to feign because back in nineteen 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.920 ninety seven, astronauts actually took a bunch of these ferns 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.400 with them on the Space Shuttle Discovery, and this was 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:32.880 a feat that earned the plant the title of first 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:34.919 fern in space. Isn't that special? 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.080 I like it? But what sort of experiments were they 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:39.599 running on these plants in space? 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:41.800 Well, basically, we wanted to see if the plants could 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:45.599 still resurrect themselves in zero gravity, and apparently they could 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:48.760 with no problem, and as later explained, the resurrection fern 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.360 quote proved to be a hardy space traveler and exhibited 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.800 regeneration patterns unaltered by its orbital adventure. So not only 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.159 can they cheat death, they can do it while rocketing 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.600 through space at thousands of miles an hour. 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.559 I do like that, but to be fair, resurrection ferns 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:06.720 aren't the only ones to master the old back from 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.279 the dead routine, and it's not just flowers and trees 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:11.720 getting into the act either. The animal kingdom has its 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.039 own resurrection like events, including some insects and amphibians that 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.919 can freeze themselves during winter and then thaw out in 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.159 the spring totally alive and healthy. 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.479 But again, like with the ferns, those animals don't technically 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.760 die though, right right, but they come pretty close. 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:29.360 Like you can take the wood frogs, which we've talked 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.400 about forever ago on the show. But when temperatures drop, 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:34.760 the wood frogs go into what's basically this state of 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:39.120 suspended animation and all of their processes shut down. So 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.880 there's no heartbeat, there's no breathing, nothing, but their cells 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.159 stay alive regardless, and it's thanks to this handy adaptation 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.560 they've evolved that lets them survive for long periods without oxygen. 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.360 So I remember talking about them, but remind me how 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:55.480 long they can actually stay like that, so it can vary. 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.560 I mean, most wood frogs do this extreme hibernation for 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:00.960 a few days at a time to cope with like 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.160 a cold snap or something like that, but they can 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.800 stay frozen for longer, even for weeks if they. 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.160 Need to, which is pretty amazing. And you mentioned their 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.279 cells still receive oxygen during this big sleep, and that 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.000 makes sense. But what I'm wondering is how those cells 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:17.039 survive the freezing process at all. I mean, there's water 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.920 inside those cells, and water expands as it freezes to ice, 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.560 and so it seems like those newly formed ice crystals 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:25.760 would just break the cells apart from within. 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.080 Yeah, that's exactly right, and it's a big part of 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.200 why a cryopreservation isn't really an option for humans. Our 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:33.599 cells just aren't equipped to handle a deep freeze. And 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.360 it's actually the same for wood frogs. If their cells froze, 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.159 they would die too. But that's why whenever there's this 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.679 sub zero temperature that sets in the frog's central organ 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:47.560 starts expelling moisture, and this way the water surrounding their 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.920 organs freezes into ice, but their organs them cells, and 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.040 their cells don't. And that's not the only trick either. 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.040 Before a wood frog fully freezes, its body floods the 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.839 veins with a special glucose molecule that works like an 0:06:59.880 --> 0:07:03.520 anti freeze. So when the glucose reaches the frog cells, 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:06.680 it'll dissolve in the water and bond with the water molecules. 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.279 And this means that water molecules in the cell won't 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.239 be able to bind with other water molecules to form ice. 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.320 So even if the water in a cell reaches subzero temperatures, 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:18.200 it still won't freeze. 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:20.560 Okay, I think I got it. So they really use 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.360 the same strategy on a cellular level as they do 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.440 for like their central organs, right exactly. 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.400 But the more researchers learn about the frog's approach, the 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.560 better we get it perfecting things like freezing human organs 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:36.120 for transport, and that technique might help us perfect cry 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:39.040 of preservation in the future, you know, getting humans into 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.080 this act of resurrecting themselves, which is. 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:43.440 A little bit creepy, and also, if you think about it, 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:45.960 some humans have already jumped the gun on the whole 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:49.080 resurrection thing. I was actually reading about this rare phenomenon 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.640 called auto resuscitation, which is when a person who is 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:56.600 declared dead spontaneously comes back to life spontaneously. 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.520 So this isn't like a patient who's flatline that doctors 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.600 use those Z clamps on and jolten back to life. 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:04.679 It's someone who comes back to life on their own. 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:06.800 That's right. So according to a two thousand and seven 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.360 medical review I believe this was the Journal of the 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:12.800 Royal Society of Medicine, there've actually been over thirty cases 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.160 of auto resuscitation since the initial report on this condition 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.760 back in nineteen eighty two. So on average, these patients 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.960 return to life did so about seven minutes after doctors 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.960 stopped administering CPR. One patient made it all the way 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:30.520 to the hospital morgue before suddenly returning to life. I mean, 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:32.920 can you imagine what that must have been like for 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.079 the poor folks who had to wheel that person down 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:38.360 there and in the morgue no less, but it's just 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.080 so like, of all places to witness someone coming back 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.479 from the dead, this would have been such a weird experience. 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:45.960 So these people sort of pop back up? Did they 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:46.720 live for a while? 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:49.319 I mean, the sad reality is that the majority of 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:53.120 these patients die shortly after their auto resuscitated it. But 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:55.480 I think what's amazing though, is that in a little 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.400 over a third of the reported cases, the patients make 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:02.119 a full recovery with little or no neurological damage. 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.640 That is wild. So do doctors have any idea of 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:06.640 why this is happening? 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:08.840 Well, I mean, it's tough to say for certain, because 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.840 there've only been, like we said, thirty something cases reported 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.520 in the last forty years, and that's not a lot 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:17.000 of data to go on. But that said, the reports 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:20.040 do offer some clues about what might be going on here, 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:22.680 for instance, the use of CPR, which is something that's 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.600 in all of these reported cases. So remember I said 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:29.760 the patients came back a few minutes after CPR was stopped. Well, 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:32.600 that gap and time might actually be the key to 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:36.440 understanding the whole phenomenon. It's a little bit complicated, So 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.520 I pulled this good breakdown from the Smithsonian and here's 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.960 how they explain it. One popular theory is that dynamic 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.440 hyperinflation which can occur during CPR if the lungs are 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:50.839 rapidly filled with air without adequate time to exhale. In theory, 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:54.560 when emergency doctors stop CPR, the lung pressure caused by 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:58.600 dynamic hyperinflation returns to normal and the blood begins to 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:02.760 circulate with greater e, producing an auto resuscitation effect. 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.440 Huh, So, how can doctor's guard against this kind of thing? Like? 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:08.400 Is there a said amount of time they need to wait? 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.200 I don't think there's like a hard and fast rule 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.080 around this, but doctors who've studied the subject do recommend 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.280 waiting at least ten or fifteen minutes after CPR has 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:21.000 ceased before declaring someone dead, you know, just to be 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:22.080 on the safe side here. 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.760 That is so strange, Like there's this period of time 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.320 when death isn't necessarily final, that someone might still pop 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:29.880 back to life. 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.160 Yeah, I mean it's it's you know, it's not super likely, 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.760 but it does happen. It makes you wonder about where 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:39.080 the cutoff is, like that point past which death is irreversible. 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.280 It might be, you know, more fluid than we had 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:41.960 first guessed. 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:45.960 Yeah, I think you're right. In fact, I was reading 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:48.840 about this concept people talk about in the conservation world 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:52.520 called the Lazarus taxon or a Lazarus species, and it's 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.360 basically a group of plants and animals that were believed 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.160 to be extinct but were later rediscovered in the wild. 0:10:58.360 --> 0:10:59.800 Like the giant b I mentioned at the top of 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.760 the show. It's not the same as the biological resurrections 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.679 we've been talking about, but it's another interesting case of 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.280 death not being quite as final as we first looked at. 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:10.640 I definitely want to hear more about this, but before 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:26.720 we get to that, let's take a quick break. You're 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:29.920 listening to Part Time Genius and we're talking about Lazarus species. 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.400 These are the extinct plants and animals that turned out 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.720 to be not so extinct after all. And speaking of Lazarus, 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.800 I actually forgot to mention this earlier, but auto resuscitation 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:44.400 actually shares some biblical inspiration. It's actually nicknamed the Lazarus phenomenon. 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.480 Have you heard of this? So in both cases the 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:49.840 name is a nod to the New Testament story where 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:53.760 Jesus performs a miracle by raising this man named Lazarus 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.120 from the dead. So kind of a fun, if not 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.320 surprising bit of overlap between religion and science here. 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.560 Yeah, that's pretty cool. But the term Lazarus taxon was 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.280 coined in the nineteen eighties by a couple of paleontologists, 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.000 and they were studying the fossil record. They noticed some 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.640 organisms seem to disappear during one of Earth's massive extinction 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:15.640 events and then miraculously reappear on the record later, and 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.760 these species taken together, form what the scientists called the 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:22.880 Lazarus taxon. So these days the term applies more broadly, 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.640 not just to fossilized organisms, but also to living species 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:30.360 that have been rediscovered after the presumed extinction. Actually, there's 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.400 a slight variation on this called the elvis taxon, which 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.920 is species that seem like they re emerge, but it's 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.280 actually an impostor. This is a true thing. But back 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.400 to the Lazarus. Like you'd think it's this small club 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:44.719 of species, but there are actually about three hundred and 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:48.080 fifty species on that list, includes everything from plants to 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.600 insects to every kind of vertebrae. 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.080 Oh wow, so it really runs the gamut. But what 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:54.640 are some of the most famous on the list, or 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:56.480 maybe just a few favorites you came across. 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.800 So my favorite species are the ones that turned up 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.040 in the super unexpected places, and one of the oldest 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.079 and most famous of these is definitely the seilican, which 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:08.599 is this ancient type of fish that was believed to 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:12.160 have gone extinct over sixty five million years ago. It 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.400 was in the supposed to be wiped out in that 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.319 same extinction event that claimed the dinosaurs. 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:19.880 Yeah, I actually think I've seen these guys before. They 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:21.640 live like way down deep, don't they. 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.679 Yeah, I mean they're bottom dwellers for sure, But that's 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:27.240 part of the reason it took us so long to 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:31.440 find one alive. That said living silicans weren't discovered thanks 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:36.400 to some technological breakthrough or some sort of landmark expedition. Instead, 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.360 it all happened by sheer chance, and here's how it 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.680 went down. So in December nineteen thirty eight, this Natural 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.240 History Museum curator named Marjorie Courtney Latimer was strolling the 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.440 docks in East London, South Africa. Apparently she did this 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:51.520 often as part of her work for the museum. She'd 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.679 just visit the local fishermen and if anyone thought they'd 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.040 caught something interesting that day, Marjorie would take a closer 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.080 look at their catch. And on that December she indeed 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.480 found something interesting in the hall of this fisherman named 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:08.199 Captain Hendrik Goosen. So in his pile of fish there 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.320 was this bizarre looking fin that Marjorie had never seen 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.960 at the docks before, and this is how she described it. 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:16.880 I picked away at a layer of slime to reveal 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:19.680 the most beautiful fish I had ever seen. It was 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:24.200 pale mauve blue with faint flecks of whitish spots. It 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.960 had an iridescent silver blue green sheen all over it. 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.680 It was covered in hard scales, and it had four 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.680 limb like fins and a strange puppy dog tail. 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:36.320 Wait, let me make sure I have this raight. So 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.680 she found what is basically a living fossil, and this 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:41.920 was at a South African fish market. 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.080 Yeah, and it was actually really big too, So the 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.560 silicon she found at the market weighed one hundred and 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.600 twenty seven pounds, which made it tough to transport back 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:52.080 to the museum. And in the end Marjorie and her 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.480 assistant they managed to get the fish into the backseat 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.480 of a taxi, but they nearly got thrown of that too, 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.560 because the fish smelled so bad. Apparently, as they pushed 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.160 it through the door and finally got in, the driver 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:07.600 was shouting, no stinking fish in my tax Yeah her, I. 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.320 Mean, honestly, can you really blame the guys? 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.080 Yeah, I mean you can. And once they explained the 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.840 circumstance and probably how big a tip they were going 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.800 to give, the driver agreed to help. Although that wasn't 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.600 the only obstacle Marjorie face that day. So when she 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:23.440 got the fish back to the museum, she still wasn't 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.840 sure what she'd found. Her expertise was actually in birds, 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.000 not fish, and when she asked the chairman of the 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.120 museum board to help her, identify the specimen. He told 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.080 her it's nothing more than a rock cot and then 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:36.560 he left to go on his holiday. 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.400 Yeah, it's funny, it almost reads like parody. But well, 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.280 obviously the museum was no help. So how did Marjorie 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:43.800 ultimately crack this case? 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.280 So the first thing she did was to find some 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.640 way to preserve the fish long term. She tried the 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.400 morgue at her local hospital, but they flat out refused 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.360 to store fish, no matter how ancient it was, and 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:56.400 in the end she had to settle for getting it 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.720 taxidermied instead. So she reached out to a fish curator 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:03.040 at a different South African museum. This guy at JLB. Smith, 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.240 and she sent the description and sketches of what she'd found. 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:08.520 Within a month or so, Smith decided to make a 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:10.720 trip to see the fish for himself, and he definitely 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.640 wasn't disappointed with what he found. In fact, listen to 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:17.920 how he later described the day he arrived at Marjorie's museum. Quote, 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.400 although I had come prepared, the first sight of the 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.720 fish hit me like a white hot blast and made 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:26.560 me feel shaky and queer. My body tingled, I stood 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.120 as if stricken to stone. Yes, there was not a 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.160 shadow of a doubt, scale by sale, bone by bone, 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.600 finn by thin. It was a true silicon. 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:37.400 It must have felt like such vindication. 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:39.800 Yeah, but plus it must have made the museum chairman 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:41.400 feel like such a chomp when he got back from 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:42.000 his vacation. 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:44.400 I mean, I know I said this earlier, but I 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.560 still can't believe she found an extinct species at a 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:49.800 fish market. It just seemed like such a weird place 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:50.280 to find this. 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.880 Well, the craziest part is that it wasn't even the 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.040 only time that's happened. In fact, there are plenty of 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:58.840 Lazarus species that have showed up at food markets. There's 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.760 the smooth toothed black tip shark that reappeared in this 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:06.240 fish market in the Middle East. There's the Laotian rock rat, 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:09.399 which was rediscovered at a meat market, and the Erican 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.000 forest turtle, which debuted at a food market in China. 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:14.160 But the list just keeps going. 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.679 Pretty sure you made up a couple of those, and 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:19.119 I'm not sure what it says about us in the 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.200 first place that we find so many supposedly extinct animals 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.760 on our dinner tables. Just it's just so weird. 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:27.440 Yeah, it kind of makes me wonder if any Lazarus 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.520 species have actually gone extinct for real, like that way, 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:32.520 like the humans just ate too many of them without 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.720 scientists walking by and stopping them from eating. But I 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.360 know we've got a few more things to tackle, but first, 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:55.000 let's take a quick break. Welcome back to part time Genius. So, well, 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.680 I know you wanted to talk about the extinction, which 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.000 is the ability to bring vanished species back to life. 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:02.040 Do you think that's something we'll be able to do 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.640 one day? And if so, how long until we're all 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.440 riding Willie Manno's to work like God intended. 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:11.680 I mean, I think it's gonna be a little while 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:13.840 on that one. But yeah, to the question of weather 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.640 we'll be able to bring an extinct species back, I mean, 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:18.840 the truth is we already have, or at least we 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:19.720 sort of. 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:23.239 Did, so I'm curious about this sort of you speak up. 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:25.679 Well all right, well, let me back up just a 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:27.640 little bit here. So have you ever heard of Celia, 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:29.719 who happens to be the last Bucardo? 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.080 No, it sounds like a Tolkien character, though. 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.639 It's actually an extinct species of Ibex that used to 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.879 live in Spain, And I think in southern France, and 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.640 so basically picture a mountain goat or a ram and 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:45.760 you're not far off from this. But all right, so 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:48.840 back in two thousand, the last Bucardo on Earth was 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.479 sadly crushed to death by a falling tree. And her 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:53.560 name was Celia. 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:56.160 Sure rip Celia, right right? 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:58.480 So that wasn't the end of the story there though, 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:02.120 because scientists tried to revive her species, and they used 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:05.800 the nucleus of a cell extracted intact from Celia. 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:09.440 So you're saying they cloned her, well sort of like. 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.880 This wasn't like with Dolly the sheep, where her nucleus 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.080 could be implanted in the egg of a sheep from 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.440 the same species. I mean, remember, Celia was the last 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.040 one and there weren't any of her kind around to 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.880 donate an egg, so instead, scientists inserted the nucleus from 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:27.639 Celia into the unfertilized egg cell of a different kind 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.719 of Spanish ibex. Then they took the resulting embryo and 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.840 transferred it to the womb of a living goat. It's 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.840 just a lot of connections here. And almost a year later, 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.520 in July of two thousand and three, the first baby 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.920 Buchardo since Celia was born. 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:45.800 Which is kind of amazing. It sounds like some bizarre 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:50.159 science traducan like a buccardo wrapped in an ibex wrapped 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.720 in a living goat. But is the Bucardo back for real? 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:55.800 Now it's it's de extinct. No. 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.120