WEBVTT - The Holy Black Stone of Mecca 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:05.920 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:14.760 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to step to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.599 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe mcma. Today 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:19.599 we're gonna be talking a little bit about religion, a 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.560 little bit about geology, a little bit about about space 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:27.440 and science. But I wanted to start off thinking about 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:31.360 the idea of sacred places. For some reason, they're there 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:35.000 are always central places that people want to go to 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:39.760 and experience personally and stand in awe. I think about 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:43.320 the in the secular version, they're like, you know, museums 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:45.640 and stuff like this. Oh yeah, when I went to 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.519 the American Museum of Natural History in New York, I 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:52.879 remember feeling a kind of church like sensation, even though 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.360 those bonkers of people running all over and making all 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.520 kinds of noise. Uh, I had this sense of like 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:01.720 I'm in a special place place. Oh yeah, this is 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.600 a different place. Yes, well, I think I think museums 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:06.000 are a great example, because I feel the same way 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:10.280 about the MET and absolutely like it's it's so phil 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.920 it's like just you just as a place. It's very 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.480 much the place of pilgrimage for individuals who are interested 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.399 in history, and art and religion, and and then you 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:22.440 go in and you have all of these pieces that 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:25.920 themselves are from all of these distant sacred places and 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.479 sacred times. Oh totally. Yeah. It's great. Like you get 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:31.600 to go to the it's almost like the catch net 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:36.560 for for sacred places throughout history. But when you go 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:38.800 to a sacred place like this that you know, these 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:42.399 places that have a history, I almost feel like you 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:46.240 are you're playing on the same kind of awe that 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.800 you might experience if you went to and believed in 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:54.800 a haunted house that like that, that some somehow a 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:59.360 kind of energy has collected there over time, and it 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.240 it gives you this sense of the sense of being 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.720 part of history to be there. Yeah. I mean, we 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.320 we sort of map out our worlds with these with 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.680 these pinpoints, uh that that all the energy seems to 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.160 converge around. Uh. And then when we visit those places, 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:18.120 we're we're taking part in that energy. We have all 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:21.000 these expectations and then we're engaging in sort of the 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:25.359 collective expectations of that place. Now, this is certainly something 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:27.280 we've covered on stuff to blow your mind in the past, 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.320 that being a stin Dolf syndrome or Jerusalem syndrome. The 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:35.000 idea where when someone finally visits one of these places 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.960 that means a lot to them personally. Be it Jerusalem, uh, 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.079 be it in the case of today's episode of Mecca, 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.480 or be it just a museum, or to stand before 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:47.440 a particular piece of art that that carries a lot 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.040 of weight with you. You enter into it with all 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.680 these expectations. Then you're finally there, and it can be overwhelming. 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:58.840 It can be mentally overwhelming and physically overwhelming to actually 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:03.520 be there at this linchpin of your life. Yeah, despite 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.040 having lived in the world your whole life, suddenly you 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.160 feel that you have connected with with again this sense 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:11.919 of history, Like here's a place that that will continue 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.440 to be visited and written about, and now I'm here. 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:19.000 And it could be an historical cathedral, it could be Stonehenge, 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.360 it could be a restaurant that was used as a 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:26.440 filming location from movie you like, but whatever it is, like, 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:29.200 this is a place that that has value that seems 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.560 to extend beyond your life. Now. Of course we've been 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.680 talking about, you know, our our favorite secular examples museums 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.839 or whatever. But I'd say you probably have to amplify 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.840 this feeling of importance connected to place, even more so 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.920 for religious believers and the sites that are sacred to 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.280 their personal religious beliefs. And of course one of the 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:53.920 sites that is sacred to millions of people around the 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:58.160 world will be found in Mecca in Saudi Arabia. That's right, 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.640 as far as sacred places go, and the and the 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.760 collective capital of belief that goes into attributing them as such, 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.040 the Haram Mosque or the Grand Mosque in Mecca is 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:10.760 easily one of the most sacred places on earth, is 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.960 one of the five Pillars of Islam. Every able bodied 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:16.839 Muslim has to embark on a pilgrimage to Mecca and 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.680 this is known as the Hodge. On the way, you 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.839 conduct a series of rituals, including the stoning of the 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:27.279 devil in Mina, and finally you conduct seven revolutions within 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:31.039 the Haram Mosque circling the Holy Kabba building, which is 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:35.400 this essentially, this this dark cube. It's featured in the 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:37.880 art for this episode, and I'm sure everyone out there 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:39.960 seeing the images of it. Of course, if you haven't, 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:41.560 you should go look it up because you should have 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:44.160 this in mind. This this dark stone building with the 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:47.880 with the tapestries draped on it versus from the Koran, 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:52.960 and then at one corner of the building something very special. Yeah, 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:57.360 the eastern exterior corner includes something that is known as 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.480 the black Stone or the al hudge year al ha 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:04.280 swad uh. This uh, this, it's this is going to 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:06.440 be the object that we're talking about here. As you 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.760 pass it, you touch, you touch it if you can, 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:12.000 you kiss it if you can. If you can't reach it, 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:15.640 you you point at it. But to touch the stone, 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.520 it is said, is to enter into a contract with God. 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.560 And I've seen translations that indicate that the black Stone 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:25.280 itself is the right hand of God on Earth. Now, 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.080 later in this episode, we're going to be exploring what 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:31.520 the black Stone might be from a geological standpoint, what 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:36.240 it's it's history and significance is within the religion. But 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:38.440 I guess first maybe we should just take a look 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.440 at the site itself at large, the Kabba. Yeah, the 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.520 Caba itself is a very holy place in Islamic tradition, 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.520 and it's it's uh. We're gonna in all of this, 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.279 as we do with any religion, We're gonna we discuss 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.000 you know, we're gonna sort of divide between the mythic history, 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:55.800 the religious ideas of what this is and where it 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.080 came from, as well as what we actually know from history. 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:03.080 But according to you, uh, to tradition, the Kaba was 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.080 constructed by Abraham, and its four corners a line with 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.520 the four compass points. It's made of great blocks of granite. 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:14.840 But the the holy black stone itself burns with an 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:19.600 even greater mysticism. So this black stone here, that's uh, 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:23.080 that's that's set in this in cement and surrounded by 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:25.960 silver here and again the eastern corner of the Coppa stone. 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.240 It's not a single stone, or at least it's not 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.839 actually a single stone anymore. Rather, it consists of eight 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:35.839 pieces of various size, seemingly the same rock, seemingly of 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:39.200 the same origin, and they're submitted together surrounded by a 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.120 silver frame. And the largest fragment is said to be 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:46.039 about the size of a date. So that's not very big, right, Yeah, 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:48.280 it's these things go. So sometimes you just hear about 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.400 the black stone eaters to match with something larger. I 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.560 must say that I always thought, before reading about this 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.000 for for the episode today, that it was a single stone, 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:00.440 and I thought it was sort of like one very 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:04.159 large jet black stone. And the reason for that is 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.200 that there are not very good pictures of it out there, 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.600 that's right. Uh So you you know, generally this is 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:14.280 not something that people photograph very much. The photographs of 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:17.040 it that do exist or kind of sometimes grainy or 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.440 low quality or from a distance. Uh, it's just not 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:25.760 ideal documentation conditions. But which is crazy considering this is 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.600 probably one of the most viewed objects on the planet. Yeah, 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.480 it's amazing. It's it's something that you know, millions and 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:36.280 millions of people have personally laid eyes on. But but 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.320 it's very hard to find a good picture of it. Um. 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.000 But yeah, so what you see in most of these 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.920 pictures is there is this silver It almost looks like 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:49.360 a like a like a basin turned sideways or something. 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:53.280 It's this silver collar that's built into the corner of 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.800 the building. And then inside this silver bowl there is 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.560 just this dark abyss. Generally is all you can see 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.280 from the outside. So if I had to guess before 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.240 I started reading the research on it what this was, 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:08.920 I would think it was like a large piece of 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:13.280 obsidian or something like that, just a large flat black 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:18.040 surface that is is smooth and dark and people, uh, 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:20.800 and you know, people pass by and and touch it 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.320 and kiss it. But no, it turns out that there's 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.320 actually a good bit more texture going on inside, which 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.960 makes identifying the geology of the of the black stone 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:33.120 all the more interesting. Yeah. So the pieces that are 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:35.560 set in the cement, they've been touched so many times 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.839 they have there's a smoothness to them. Um, and uh, 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:41.720 it's all the worth worth noting, like these are pieces 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:43.760 of something that was once whole. And we'll get into 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.800 that in a bit. Various authors have commented on it 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.520 and tried to you know, they're they're varying figures that 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.520 have come out over the years, over the centuries. Really 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.320 Westerner is getting a glimpse of it, looking at it, 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:58.719 trying to figure out how how big it is the 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:00.719 pieces are now and how big might have been when 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.360 it was a one piece. Um. There is a paper 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:08.199 by Elizabeth Thompson which we're gonna refer to several times here. 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.680 She was from the University of Copenhagen. She wrote a 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:14.880 paper in in Meteoritics in nine eighty titled New Light 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.080 on the Origin of the Holy black stone of the Kabba, 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:21.000 and she did some some figuring here, and she says 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:25.160 that the the possible original size of the stone would 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:29.440 have been by twenty centimeters or nine point eight inches 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.360 by seven point eight by seven point eight, which would 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.880 have made it what possibly about the size of a 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:38.960 cantaloupe originally basically candle. And I rough estimate estimate here. 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.360 I've never measured a candle. Ope, Robert Well, I did 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.240 some I was at home when I was doing this 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:45.920 portion of the notes, and I was like, all right, well, 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.080 how big is that? Let me think is that? What 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.800 fruit does that align with? And the best I can 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:57.200 tell possibly candiloup uh fruit or um Islamic history experts 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.560 may have may differ on that. Now, as for the color, 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.000 this is another interesting thing because again you look at it, 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:07.600 you just see darkness called the black stone. So what 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.840 color is it? That is actually kind of difficult to 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.640 decide on as well, because various accounts have described it 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:17.480 as brownish black or blackish brown, or reddish black or 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:21.040 deep reddish brown, and some accounts also speak to a 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.120 coal like matrix to it. I think I've read that 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:27.120 that was only one account that actually said that at 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:30.520 least one account they oh then said coal like matrix, 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:34.800 but most accounts point out that they're yellow spots pointed 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:40.439 white crystals. There's also an impossible interior that is described 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:44.120 as gray. So it's not just this obsidian or charcoal 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:48.400 like stone, but rather something that has flex of other 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.800 color in them. Right there there are these little pieces 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.160 of yellow or white. And then there are also some 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:57.199 reports that inside the stone it is white, or that 0:10:57.520 --> 0:10:59.920 like covered parts of the stone that are not at 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:04.600 supposed in the in the cemented, cemented, paved surface are white. 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.839 Another claim we should probably deal with because it does 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:11.240 figure big into scientists trying to figure out what type 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:15.240 of rock or mineral this is is that it allegedly, 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:20.000 according to very old reports, floats in water. Yes, this 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:21.760 is this is something that comes up a time or 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:26.160 two in the actually the the historical record of the 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.080 stone where supposedly this was used to authenticated after it 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.199 had been stolen in return, and we'll get into that 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.880 story in a bit that wasn't like the tenth century. Yes, yeah, 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:37.959 so the idea that they could tell it's the stone 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.120 by placing it in water and seeing it would float, well, 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.720 not many stones float so that would be a unique identifier. 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.840 But I guess that that does just depend on taking 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.600 that story as accurate, right, And that's one of the 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:56.239 that's one of the problems, the challenges, the tantalizing aspects 0:11:56.240 --> 0:12:01.440 of this whole exercise and discussing what the stone actually 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:06.000 consists of from a scientific standpoint, because you're you're left 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:10.880 to draw on all these varying accounts and a very limited, uh, 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.960 observational data about the stone. Yeah, I mean one of 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.040 the features of the stone. So one of the things 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:21.080 about observing the stone that you have to understand is 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:25.160 that it is sort of the mechanics of how the 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:30.520 ritual at the Kaba works. People are constantly circling this 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:32.679 and there, you know, there might be thousands of people 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.880 in there, all trying to get up to the stone 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:37.679 to kiss it, or to point at it, or to 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:42.199 touch it. And so you are not in a situation 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.280 where you can sit there and look at it and 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:49.079 take notes. Right. This is not a museum, right. Uh. No, 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.680 it might be more like in the louver where you 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:54.600 try to get a good look at the Mona Lisa, 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.680 but there's just people cramming in from all sides and 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:01.320 pushing you. I mean, I've read reports about people trying 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:03.040 to get a good look at the stone and and 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.880 they're they're always reports mentioning just the crowd pushing you along, 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:09.480 not being able to get up close to it, or 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.240 they are also guards there, and sometimes guards will push 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.320 you along, move you out of the way. Uh, you 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.360 can sort of understand why, I mean that they don't 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.040 want to have a case of crowd crush or something 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.760 like that with other people there. Yeah, I mean, so 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:24.320 you have and and on top of all of this, 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:29.400 you have your you're sort of religious expectations. You have 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.199 the whole Stendall syndrome coming into play here as you're 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.720 beholding it now, Robert, I think you had a couple 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.720 of accounts you were reading of people talking about visiting 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:41.320 the Kabba, right, Yeah. I just I tend to find 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.520 the idea of early Westerners visiting Mecca and seeing the 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:48.320 Cobba on the stone. I find those really fascinating. And 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.160 so I just had had had mainly two here I 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.280 wanted to to highlight. And there's a third one that 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.440 that we end up referencing later. So the first one 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:01.240 that to reference here Swiss traveler and Arabic speaker Johan 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:06.280 Ludwig Burkhardt visited Mecca in eighteen fourteen, so he was 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:10.040 very much an Arabic speaker enthusiast. He was. He converted 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:13.400 to Islam. This is also the guy who rediscovered the 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:17.440 ruins of Petra, which if you're if you're if you're 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:20.840 still foggy on what Petra is, think to what Indiana 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.840 Jones and the Last Year say, is that the treasury 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.520 building of Petra, that's the one set in the cliff full. Yeah, 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:29.800 the tomb of the grail there, they're not the tomb, 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:33.200 the resting place, the booby trap place, Yes, the booby 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.760 trap place with the with the with all the grail stuff. 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.200 In reality, of course that is Petra and does not 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:42.160 have booby traps, does not have boot traps. Now, one 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.520 of the most notable individuals, one of one of my 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.440 favorites to visit Mecca in early times as a Westerner 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.080 is Captain Sir Richard Francis Burton. He visited in eighteen 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:57.920 fifty three, and Burton was also allegedly a convert to 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:02.240 Islam and earlier or a possible convert to Hinduism. He's 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:04.320 a difficult guy. To pin down and it sounds like 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.280 I'm being vague here. So he spoke twenty five distinct languages, 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:12.800 not counting dialects. Uh. He was something of a bisexual, hedonist, 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:17.040 a spy and explore. He was endlessly fascinated with other cultures, languages, 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:22.320 modes of human sexuality. And he's probably some commentators classify 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:27.040 him more as an atheist, but his explorations into Hinduism 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.080 and Islam are are often referred to his conversions, Like 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.320 he didn't just study them, he became them. Yeah, like 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.520 that that's kind of my my my read on him, 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.360 Like here's a guy who learned all these languages, and 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.400 in using these languages, you kind of have to change 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:45.200 the way your brain operates. And even to fake, like 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.160 even just to us, if you were to assume, okay, 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:51.520 someone like Burton um they just faked Islamic belief in 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.160 order to go on the Hodge, like to fake that, 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.640 you would still have to be so versed in a 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.800 deep understanding or of the cult. Sure the rights entailed there, 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:04.800 like your cover would be so deep. How would you 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.680 keep it from overcoming you? I mean, in one sense, 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:11.040 it almost you almost want to say that to fully 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:15.240 understand someone else's religion, you almost have to be able 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.880 to mentally convert to it, and kind of hypothetical sense 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:20.600 to like to try to see what it looks like 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.520 from the inside, right, And then at the same time, 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.800 like Burton, again a fascinating character. We can't get into 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.240 everything he did here, but he wrote a lot about 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.440 his his travels, and his ideas and his his observations. 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:35.800 And at times too he kind of waffles back and forth. 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.840 Sometimes he sounds, you know, very much uh, you know, 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.040 at one with Islam and and and intrigued by it. 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:44.760 Other times you still still see some of that the 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:49.360 English colonial um mentality rising to the surface, and he 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.960 sounds a bit dismissive. Like I said, very very fascinating guy. 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.960 Difficult guy to to nail down. But here's a quick 0:16:56.040 --> 0:17:00.600 quote from his writings about beholding the stone. He said, 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.800 after thus reaching the stone, despite popular indignation, testified by 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.760 impatient shouts, we monopolize the use of it for at 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.040 least ten minutes, which is quite a lot. When you 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.040 see the CROUPD pictures right, whilst kissing it and rubbing 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.639 hands and forehead upon it, I narrowly observed it and 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.480 came away persuaded that it is an aerial light. Other travelers, 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:26.040 including Burkhardt, had thought it volcanic in origin. Right, So 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.320 here we're starting to get to the question of what 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:32.399 the stone is geologically. A lot of commentators throughout the 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:37.160 years have assumed that it was that it was lava 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:41.280 of some kind of basalt, things like that. But here's 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:43.600 the idea that it's an aero light, that it is 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:48.000 a type of meteorite, a space rock. Right. And to 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.720 understand why this idea is so appealing, we have to 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.879 discuss the mythic the religious history of the stone a 0:17:55.920 --> 0:18:00.359 little bit. So if you if you dive into Islamic tradition. 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:04.520 In Islamic belief, there's a basic kind of a damic 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.879 origin story and play here. So depending on how you 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.439 interpret this origin story, the Black Stone dates back to 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:17.120 either Abraham or Adam, the first created human. So one 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.720 interpretation is that Adam built the first kava on Earth 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.600 and here he sat on a white stone, okay, a 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.560 stone that turned black with the fall of man, and 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.080 the first Kaba was then destroyed in the Great Flood, 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.359 and it wasn't until later that Abraham was tasked with 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.240 rebuilding it or building the first cabin, depending on on 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:39.199 the telling. Another idea here is that this was a 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:44.000 meteorite brought to Abraham by the archangel Gabriel from the 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.359 mountain side where it had fallen, or that it originally 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.240 was one of the stars of Paradise. Now, one of 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.120 the reasons they're they're kind of varying takes on this 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.680 is because the black Stone, as I understand it, is 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:59.040 not actually mentioned in the Koran. It is uh, it 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.760 comes from a adational Islamic sources and just sort of traditions. 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.160 To me, that's always some of the most interesting things 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.640 you find in any religion is the stuff that's not 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:12.280 necessarily straight in the middle of the cannon, but but 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.600 not necessarily out of the mainstream cannon either. It's sort 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:19.879 of like it comes from additional traditional material, the the 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:23.440 you might you know, the metadata of the religion. Right. 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:27.400 I think we've touched on this before, discussions of heaven, hell, 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:31.960 and purgatory in Christian and Catholic traditions and where those 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:34.879 ideas come from, because certainly, if you're looking for a 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:39.240 strict definition of those things within the Older New Testament, uh, 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:41.840 those details are not really forthcoming. No, you get a 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:43.720 few hints, but you're not going to find Dante in 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.520 the Bible right now. In terms of what the stone does, 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.639 already mentioned that it's it's it's considered the right hand 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:51.879 of God. To touch it is to enter into a 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:57.080 contract with God, and there are additional powers that have 0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:59.560 been attributed to it. Oh, and I believe this comes 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:04.800 from the wings of one Heinrich von Maltzen. We visited 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:08.120 this Mecca as well in eighteen fifty eight, coming after 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:12.359 the two individuals we already mentioned. Yeah, supposedly so so 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:16.400 von Maltzen. Um. I want to be careful about citing 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:22.520 him because he strikes me as perhaps unreliable and definitely unsympathetic. 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:26.720 Like he wrote this eighteen sixty five book in German 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:31.159 called minah walfartnck Mecha, which means my Pilgrimage to Mecca 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.280 the books in German. I've not found an official published translation, 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:40.119 but using Google Translate, I did a little uh looking 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:45.000 through this book and he um, he strikes me as 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:50.000 an sort of unsympathetic and perhaps uncomprehending outsider, So I 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:54.240 wouldn't use him as a as a very reliable account 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:56.600 of what the people on the Hajj in in the 0:20:56.680 --> 0:21:00.440 nineteenth century we're actually believing. But he at least claimed aims, 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:04.199 possibly wrongly, that the Pilgrims at the time believed that 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.840 it was impossible to destroy the Kaaba and that and 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:12.040 impossible to destroy the Black Stone itself. Uh So he 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.760 said that, you know, they were attributing these miraculous powers 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:19.119 to it. Now, I know, um, you know, within every 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:22.320 religion there's always going to be plenty of diversity of 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:25.760 opinion and different ideas. But I know one strong tradition 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:29.159 in Islam, probably not adhered to by all Muslims, is 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:33.000 the idea that you know that that there aren't miraculous objects. 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:36.840 You know that that that essentially people aren't going to 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.399 do miracles for you, objects aren't going to be miraculous. 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:44.040 But if this account of is correct, there are at 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:49.000 least some slightly miraculous uh properties attributed to the stone 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:51.320 at some points in history. But then again, as I say, 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.320 this guy seems like a jerk and like he's maybe 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:58.800 not understanding things correctly, Like he seems disgusted by the rituals. 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:01.760 He doesn't. At one point, he's like, I had to 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:05.280 go and kiss the stone and he calls it the monster. 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:10.000 So he's is perhaps not looking at the stone from 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.800 the perspective of of an outsider who has converted to 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:19.040 it to Islam and is fully uh fully accepting any 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.520 of the ideas and traditions around it. Yeah, or even 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:23.920 just trying for the sake of understanding to get into 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:27.000 that headspace. What what does this mean to the insider 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:29.120 to the believer? And then as far as the future 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:33.960 is concerned, there are tales that on the day of judgment, Uh, 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:36.760 it is said that the stone will grow eyes, mouth, 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:39.879 and tongue, and that will see and speak, and it 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.600 will witness in favor of all those who touched it 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:46.040 with sincere hearts, which I think is wow, quite a 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:48.080 visual that one kind of gives me a chill bumps. 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:51.120 The idea of the stone sort of becoming this floating 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:57.040 face that then speaks on behalf to God. Uh, of 0:22:57.119 --> 0:23:00.359