Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball.
Speaker 2: In a bright egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida egg,
Speaker 2: Frida Egg, fridagg.
Speaker 1: Brid egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of
Speaker 1: the Welcome back to the Friday Golf Podcast. I am
Speaker 1: your host, Andy Johnson, and today I'm thrilled to be
Speaker 1: joined by the legendary Jim Bones Mackay. Jim joins us
Speaker 1: to talk about kind of the golf world, the golf
Speaker 1: season as well as the Ryder Cup. He will obviously
Speaker 1: be covering it as part of the NBC's team, and
Speaker 1: he also also recently just created some content with aon
Speaker 1: called The Best Page Course Insights, which is live on
Speaker 1: the Ryder Cup YouTube channel at Rydercup dot com. Slash
Speaker 1: aon that's live and available for everybody to go watch
Speaker 1: on Monday, August eighteenth, So check out Bones is a
Speaker 1: series there on the Ryder Cup page. But we're really
Speaker 1: thrilled to have them on to just chat about the
Speaker 1: golf season and everything ahead. So before we get to Bones,
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Speaker 1: slash egg. All right, let's get to Jim Bones mackay here.
Speaker 1: Uh and uh let's talk golf. All right, Bones, Uh,
Speaker 1: We've got the Ryder Cup coming up. It is h
Speaker 1: is wild that we're I feel like you blink and
Speaker 1: I imagine this is for you doing you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of weeks of on site coverage. You blink and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, another golf calendar is somehow over.
Speaker 1: We're at the end of here, of of you know,
Speaker 1: the big events of twenty twenty five. What to you
Speaker 1: to to you what's been the resounding the big takeaway
Speaker 1: from this season so.
Speaker 2: Far that you know, certainly, you know, Rory getting over
Speaker 2: the hump in the fashion that he did at Augusta
Speaker 2: National and winning the Masters and obviously the career Grand Slam,
Speaker 2: you know, with immense weight on his shoulders, I thought
Speaker 2: was a huge story relative to this year and the
Speaker 2: reminder that Scotty Scheffler is the best player in the world.
Speaker 3: You know what that guy.
Speaker 2: Does week in week out, the way he does it,
Speaker 2: the way he plays, the Nicholas way about he goes
Speaker 2: about doing, you know, take care of his craft is
Speaker 2: just never ceases to blow me away.
Speaker 3: So certainly they're the two big stories for me.
Speaker 2: And you know, certainly as we head into the latter
Speaker 2: part of the year and certainly the Ryder Cup, looking
Speaker 2: for the emergence of or the re emergence of a
Speaker 2: couple of guys that could potentially help that team a lot.
Speaker 1: I you know, the next couple of weeks are going
Speaker 1: to be big for the American Ryder Cup team, and
Speaker 1: there's I think a little bit of uncertainty at the
Speaker 1: back end. I think if you compare it to the
Speaker 1: European team, it doesn't It almost feels, especially with Matt
Speaker 1: Fitzpatrick's resurgent play, it feels like there's very maybe one
Speaker 1: spot available on the European team versus the American team.
Speaker 1: It's going to be fascinating to see what happens with
Speaker 1: the back end of it. You know, we're relatively fresh
Speaker 1: off of Scotty's performance at at the Open, which you
Speaker 1: had a a front seat to. You've had a front
Speaker 1: seat to you know, the player that he's getting compared
Speaker 1: a lot to these days. Tiger Woods, you were inside
Speaker 1: the ropes, you know, going going duking it out with
Speaker 1: him in his heyday. You know, if you were, you know,
Speaker 1: you obviously have seen so many of the so many
Speaker 1: great players the last you know, thirty plus years in golf.
Speaker 1: What is it about Scotty that is that kind of
Speaker 1: separates him and puts him in this ascending kind of
Speaker 1: class of player that he seemingly is is quickly going
Speaker 1: up the ranks of.
Speaker 3: For me, it's where he gets to mentally.
Speaker 2: He looks like a guy out there when he's playing,
Speaker 2: who's got you know, nothing bothering him hit him in
Speaker 2: the world other than the task at hand, you know,
Speaker 2: on the golf course, on that.
Speaker 3: Particular golf hole that day.
Speaker 2: He strikes me as a guy that has you know,
Speaker 2: very little baggage in terms of you know, what he
Speaker 2: brings to.
Speaker 3: The golf course.
Speaker 2: He's supremely confident and and and he it's fascinating to
Speaker 2: watch him go about his business. I mean, I mentioned
Speaker 2: Nicholas a couple of minutes ago, and that's the guy
Speaker 2: I compare him to, you know, quite a bit in
Speaker 2: terms of the way he goes about his business, and
Speaker 2: he's it's just head down and and you know, walk
Speaker 2: to the green, you know, hit your putt, go to
Speaker 2: the next tea, go through your process. With Ted Scott,
Speaker 2: I covered him for three of the three three fifty
Speaker 2: four holes at the at the Open Championship, and and
Speaker 2: we never spoke once. You know, he's he's that kind
Speaker 2: of just you know, you're you know, as an encourse reporter,
Speaker 2: you tend to have the occasional conversation with players here
Speaker 2: and there. Scott, he's, you know, so plugged in, he's
Speaker 2: he's just doing his thing, and I don't I completely
Speaker 2: leave him alone when we're out there, and it's fascinating
Speaker 2: to go about seeing it. And you know, you talk about,
Speaker 2: you know, the comparisons potentially to Tiger Woods. You know,
Speaker 2: Tiger you know, they're different in the way they go
Speaker 2: about their business. And as I said at the Open Championship,
Speaker 2: I didn't think in my lifetime i'd see a player
Speaker 2: that I would be as as willing to say, Gosh,
Speaker 2: this guy's you know, you know he's close to Tiger.
Speaker 2: He's certainly not Tiger Woods. Tiger Woods is the best
Speaker 2: player I've ever seen and probably will see it will
Speaker 2: be through the course of my lifetime. But Scotty, you know,
Speaker 2: he's an amazing, amazing player. And I got called out
Speaker 2: on social media about a year ago for saying I
Speaker 2: thought that Scotty could get to ten majors, and I'm
Speaker 2: sticking with it, you know, after him picking off two
Speaker 2: this year, he's at four and I think there's a
Speaker 2: great chance he could get to double digits.
Speaker 1: It's it's amazing what what the multi win seasons do
Speaker 1: for your totals. There's so few, the scarcity of majors
Speaker 1: only being four a year, and they're being you know,
Speaker 1: you figure in the elite rung of golfers, there's thirty
Speaker 1: players that are you know there their seasons are there
Speaker 1: twenty We'll say twenty players their seasons are in. Their
Speaker 1: success of their seasons really kind of dependent on how
Speaker 1: you perform in these four weeks, right, And when you
Speaker 1: pick off two, it's the leaps like it kind of
Speaker 1: probably sounds a little bit obvious, but then when it happens,
Speaker 1: you're like, wait, Scotty just went from two to four. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's like if you get two next year, He's
Speaker 1: at six, you know, and you know, I think the
Speaker 1: the number of players that have won multiple majors in
Speaker 1: multiple years is extremely small. You know something you know,
Speaker 1: you're you have obviously very unique experience in this and
Speaker 1: something that stood out to me this major season with Scottie.
Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of people talk about
Speaker 1: is his strategy and you know, his target selection and
Speaker 1: how he plays very smart. But beyond just like the
Speaker 1: target selection, I think something that stood out and it
Speaker 1: really resounded. It was Saturday on the fourteenth hole, Kay,
Speaker 1: they had that backflag, Yes, and that's probably you know,
Speaker 1: one of the scariest approach shots on that golf course,
Speaker 1: and you know you're you're having to deal with you know,
Speaker 1: you know, elevation change, a very narrow green that's shedding balls,
Speaker 1: and a back flag that's just naturally hard to get at.
Speaker 3: Yeah, fairway slips from right to left, yep, And.
Speaker 1: You think about, like you know, these players everybody talks
Speaker 1: about like smart targets, smart targets, there also is like
Speaker 1: an aspect of that doesn't get talked about as much
Speaker 1: as the commitment to your target and the the confidence
Speaker 1: to to swing freely with the target. Like I think
Speaker 1: what these great players and you you way more experienced
Speaker 1: with this, but you have a target. But then you
Speaker 1: also in the back of your mind have like I'm
Speaker 1: bailing here.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like to me, what stands out about Scotty beyond just
Speaker 1: like the target selection is that once he selects a target,
Speaker 1: I feel like he swings freer than everybody else in
Speaker 1: the world where his confidence of and obviously has a
Speaker 1: lot of reason to be company he's the best iron
Speaker 1: player in the world, but the ability to just like
Speaker 1: hit shots at these very well placed targets and and
Speaker 1: go at these that are scary shots like he's not
Speaker 1: He doesn't bail out like a lot of players do
Speaker 1: in those situations.
Speaker 2: Completely agree. It's uh, I think some of that. You know,
Speaker 2: certainly Ted Scott's not hitting a shot out there, but
Speaker 2: I think it speaks volumes for that relationship and the
Speaker 2: trust they have at each other in terms of picking
Speaker 2: out you know, said targets. But but you're exactly right.
Speaker 2: You know Tiger was the same way, and that you
Speaker 2: know people gave you know, Phil Mickelson a really hard
Speaker 2: time back in that era for you know, overly aggressed
Speaker 2: to play. And you know that you can argue yes
Speaker 2: or no on many things that went on in Phil's career.
Speaker 2: But certainly, you know, I thought Tiger was a guy
Speaker 2: that was, you know, quite a bit more aggressive than
Speaker 2: people ever gave him credit for, if you will, and
Speaker 2: and of course pulled off the shots as you're referring
Speaker 2: relative to Scotty. But to your point, I think that's
Speaker 2: that's very well said that Scotty. You know, he'll take
Speaker 2: on take on that target, get it back there to
Speaker 2: that flag on fourteen, and you're referencing and give himself
Speaker 2: a look.
Speaker 1: It's it's like almost a conservative with their targets, but
Speaker 1: extraordinarily aggressive.
Speaker 4: With their commitment to the target.
Speaker 1: And I think that's like an underrated aspect of the shot, is.
Speaker 4: The commitment to the target? You know, yes, just.
Speaker 1: While we're here, you know, with your experience catting in
Speaker 1: these different generations, how is how is the strategy of
Speaker 1: how players move a round a golf course changed over
Speaker 1: thirty years?
Speaker 2: Well, it's I felt like it certainly changed a little
Speaker 2: bit when the square grooves were outlawed, and chipping, you know,
Speaker 2: for some guys at least became a little bit tougher
Speaker 2: than it had previously been in terms of short sighting yourself.
Speaker 2: But I think with the advent of you know, these
Speaker 2: devices now that you know, like like like do with
Speaker 2: with track Man and with the quad, that that these
Speaker 2: guys have this incredible feedback now in terms of you know,
Speaker 2: how far they're hitting the ball, how far the ball
Speaker 2: is going on the range. You know it rained rained
Speaker 2: last night, and you know the error is a little
Speaker 2: heavy this morning, and the ball's not going quite as far.
Speaker 2: I think that with with the the information they have
Speaker 2: at hand, it gives them a little bit of a
Speaker 2: of an edge in terms of getting it flags maybe
Speaker 2: you couldn't have in past generations. It's a really really
Speaker 2: good question. I think that that certainly we're seeing, you know,
Speaker 2: players come out of college now with better short games
Speaker 2: than they did you know, maybe a generation ago, and
Speaker 2: guys aren't quite as scared of certain flags as they
Speaker 2: had been previously. But it's it's it's a it's a
Speaker 2: great point that you make relative to guys kind of
Speaker 2: getting after it a little bit more than we're used
Speaker 2: to seeing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the the young players, I I I guess one
Speaker 1: of the things with young players, I do think like
Speaker 1: that there's like you see it with with the open
Speaker 1: sometimes is like when you get a little bit more
Speaker 1: nuanced of of a test, that's where where you know,
Speaker 1: the youth kind of shows. But for the most part,
Speaker 1: with the with the way the PGA Tour operates, it
Speaker 1: just you know, it's it's never been you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's wildly I think some of its talent, you know,
Speaker 1: an immense talent layer. But I think that you know,
Speaker 1: the the riddle of playing PGA Tour golf has been
Speaker 1: you know a little bit simplified over over the over
Speaker 1: the years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would completely agree with that. And the talent
Speaker 2: we're seeing coming out of college these days is crazy.
Speaker 2: A buddy mine's currently working some events for Jackson Coyven
Speaker 2: and he was telling me, you know, just how incredibly
Speaker 2: good this young man is, who I think is going
Speaker 2: to be a junior in college is coming year and
Speaker 2: certainly a player at Cyprus Point and the Walker Cup
Speaker 2: this fall, and a good guy to keep an eye on.
Speaker 2: But these guys are showing up and finishing top ten
Speaker 2: and you know, borderline contending with what Luke Clinton did
Speaker 2: last year.
Speaker 3: It's amazing to see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, what's you're always reminded to is who's
Speaker 1: the best at twenty one isn't going to be who's
Speaker 1: the best at twenty five? Always, right, you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: you get those generational stars and you know, who the
Speaker 1: best at twenty five doesn't necessarily mean they're going to
Speaker 1: be the best at age thirty. And you look at
Speaker 1: like the most recent example would have been that Matt
Speaker 1: Wolf Matt Wolf, Victor Hovlin colin Morrikawa where they all
Speaker 1: burst on the scene at the same time and it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, they all won in short order, they all,
Speaker 1: you know, and and then it looked like marikw is gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, be the best, and he's got like a
Speaker 1: very nice head start. But now it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: Hovland and him, and you know who ends up having
Speaker 1: the next best five years and and you see this
Speaker 1: over like the arc of careers, like I think Phil
Speaker 1: and Ernie Els had this you know, twenty five year
Speaker 1: run where you know, you could have all these different
Speaker 1: arguments and Phil's you know, Fill's long overall long term longevity,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of probably pushes him past in most
Speaker 1: people's books Ernie. But then that early part of the career,
Speaker 1: Ernie had the majors that Fill didn't have and you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's a you know, one of the things with
Speaker 1: like Clanton in and is like there are these other
Speaker 1: guys that got their cards to Gordon Sargeant and David
Speaker 1: Ford and and like you've heard nothing about David Ford
Speaker 1: and that makes me almost wonder like maybe he ends
Speaker 1: up being the best because nobody's talking about him, right,
Speaker 1: and it's because like he he was the best player
Speaker 1: in the PGA Tour, you rankings. It's it is a
Speaker 1: young part of the game, and Koyven and you know
Speaker 1: from a lot of people, people will say coy even
Speaker 1: might be the best of all of them. And you know,
Speaker 1: from what I've gathered, it's it's the driver and the
Speaker 1: putter that are just at a different level than than
Speaker 1: most people, you know, most young golfers. Where he's driving it,
Speaker 1: you know, extremely dominant and and it.
Speaker 4: Will be really fun.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I think like what's been nice with you know, Golf
Speaker 1: Channel over the you know, recent years, has been the
Speaker 1: increased college uh and amateur coverage, both on the men's
Speaker 1: and women's side.
Speaker 3: Yeah, are you going to the are you going to
Speaker 3: the Walker Cup?
Speaker 1: I am? I am, It's I'm pretty excited about that.
Speaker 1: It's I'm unfortunately not going to be in town for
Speaker 1: the Amateur, which will be you know, fun to watch
Speaker 1: at uh at at Olympic Club, a golf course. I
Speaker 1: think that that is it. That is a you know what,
Speaker 1: I want to play Olympic Club every day. No, But
Speaker 1: do I enjoy watching championship golf at Olympic Club. Yes,
Speaker 1: because the shot the shot demands are so high out there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I'm not I will be at the Walker Cup though,
Speaker 1: that's are you going to be there?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: It was you know, the way my schedules set out
Speaker 2: in terms of NBC events, it's pretty much falls into
Speaker 2: place where I'm going to work. But when I got
Speaker 2: back to work there at NBC after catting for a spell,
Speaker 2: one of the first things I did is ask that
Speaker 2: I could work this this you know, Walker Cup at
Speaker 2: Cyprus Point. I'm a huge It's my favorite golf course
Speaker 2: of all time, and and I just can't wait to
Speaker 2: be to be uh bed on property that week.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be incredible.
Speaker 1: What uh what makes it your favorite course? Like? What
Speaker 1: are what are your favorite aspects of Cyprus?
Speaker 2: Well, I think just the just the property every time
Speaker 2: I'm there, and I've had a chance to play it
Speaker 2: quite a few times. I can't believe there's a golf
Speaker 2: course on that piece of land and you play and
Speaker 2: you just have the best time, and of course you've
Speaker 2: got you know, the holes that take you out, you know,
Speaker 2: and you play in the trees there for a few holes,
Speaker 2: and then you come out on you know, seven, eight, nine,
Speaker 2: ten and all that and play away and then head
Speaker 2: towards the ocean and ultimately you're having this amazing day
Speaker 2: and you get to fifteen, sixteen, and seventeen, You're like,
Speaker 2: are you kidding me? These have to be the three
Speaker 2: greatest holes in the world, back to back to back,
Speaker 2: And I just think it's beyond special. I love the
Speaker 2: way the club operates. Casey Riemer, the pro there, is
Speaker 2: one of the great guys in the business, you know,
Speaker 2: in the in the in the golf industry that is.
Speaker 2: And I just love absolutely everything about that golf club.
Speaker 1: I think it's like impossible to be in a bad
Speaker 1: mood there. I've noticed I usually play really well, and
Speaker 1: I think it's because like I'm just like in a
Speaker 1: in a state of bliss. Yeah, It's like I'm probably
Speaker 1: a sign of like, why the the way my mentality
Speaker 1: should be every round I play golf, But like there,
Speaker 1: it's like I'm just like in this like state of
Speaker 1: euphoria and I play well. You know, in terms of
Speaker 1: the competition, I can't think of like a better hole
Speaker 1: for match play late in around than whole sixteen. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be amazing. I mean that you get that
Speaker 1: wind coming in off the left and you're hitting lumber
Speaker 1: into that thing, and it is you can't miss short right.
Speaker 1: It's that that hole I think gets harder every time
Speaker 1: you play it.
Speaker 3: I agree with you. I know it's got my number.
Speaker 2: I don't know how you've done on it, but I
Speaker 2: just the fact that you stand on that hole, as
Speaker 2: you say, in those kinds of conditions, you know that
Speaker 2: any kind of mishit and it's wet, there's no such
Speaker 2: thing there as hitting something a little bit in the
Speaker 2: heel and you still have a great chance to make three.
Speaker 2: I mean, you hit one, you know, off center there
Speaker 2: and you're in a.
Speaker 3: Whole lot of trouble.
Speaker 2: So as you say, I mean the sixteenth hole in
Speaker 2: a match play format on that golf course, it's gonna
Speaker 2: be absolutely incredible.
Speaker 1: You know it's funny. The first time I played it,
Speaker 1: I almost saised it wow, landed like it was I
Speaker 1: almost went deuce juice. But on fifteen sixteen. But ever
Speaker 1: since that time, I think I think I hit it
Speaker 1: the second time, but every every every other time, I've
Speaker 1: hitting the water. And the last time I played for
Speaker 1: media Day a couple of weeks ago, and I hit
Speaker 1: it left in the water and I was like genuinely
Speaker 1: happy with the result because I knew I could drop
Speaker 1: up by the by the rain. Like in my head
Speaker 1: when I was to you, I was like, if you're
Speaker 1: gonna miss miss left, like talking about like Scotty and
Speaker 1: commitment to commitment to the targets, like this was me
Speaker 1: not being committed to my target and just failing left
Speaker 1: because I honestly I was thinking about it. I might
Speaker 1: just start laying up on that hole.
Speaker 2: I've certainly done it.
Speaker 1: It's like a delightful layup, like he hit it over there,
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, I can make three here. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna make most than a four exactly. You know,
Speaker 1: the the original there was a there was an iteration
Speaker 1: of the routing where that would have been a part
Speaker 1: four and it would have played from like kind of
Speaker 1: more back into the right kind of like off of fifteen,
Speaker 1: and it would have played that way. And you talk
Speaker 1: about like a fascinating short part four. You know, it's
Speaker 1: obviously one of the greatest holes in the world, but
Speaker 1: I think in that iteration it still would have been
Speaker 1: one of the greatest holes in the world, just different,
Speaker 1: you know, Yes, So yeah, that that event. You know,
Speaker 1: I wanted to you know, before we've swerved all different
Speaker 1: directions as podcasts usually do, but I did want to,
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't I didn't get to watch Jack
Speaker 1: in his heyday, and I'm just just curious, you know
Speaker 1: that the Scottie comp to to to Jack, because I
Speaker 1: think it's natural everybody's going to to Tiger just because
Speaker 1: it's more recent and you know, the vast majority of
Speaker 1: public watch Tiger that are golf viewers. And what was
Speaker 1: you know, how would you describe Jack Nicholas's dominance and
Speaker 1: how does that you know similar? How is that similar
Speaker 1: how Scotty goes about his dominance.
Speaker 2: I would say that in terms of those two guys,
Speaker 2: they are incredibly comfortable on the biggest stage that they
Speaker 2: play on, Whereas I think you get some guys you
Speaker 2: know that you know, are going to certainly run into
Speaker 2: some nerves and certainly, well Tiger's the same way. But
Speaker 2: we're talking about Jack and Scotty right now. But I
Speaker 2: find that Scotty is just he looks the same to
Speaker 2: me Sunday at the Open Championship walking off the first
Speaker 2: t as he does on Thursday at the Waste Management
Speaker 2: Open in Phoenix. He's he just gets to this place
Speaker 2: in his head that enables him to play his best golf.
Speaker 2: And I think they're very similar in the way they
Speaker 2: pick golf courses apart and you know, hit the ball
Speaker 2: pin high in the center of the green and leave
Speaker 2: themselves up hill puts, whatever the case may be. I
Speaker 2: just think that there's there's a lot more, many more
Speaker 2: similarities between Scotty and Jack than there are Scotty and Tiger.
Speaker 1: It's, you know what, I feel like he loves the
Speaker 1: ritual and almost the the the process of being a
Speaker 1: pro golfer. It seems like he is. Is that a
Speaker 1: challenging thing to get a player to? You know, golf
Speaker 1: is monotonous. Being playing great golf is like fairly monotonous.
Speaker 1: Is it a challenge to get a player is it
Speaker 1: hard to get a player to just, you know, do
Speaker 1: stick with the stuff that works we can weak out.
Speaker 2: That's a great question, I think, you know, certainly, you know,
Speaker 2: players run into a level of frustration or a break
Speaker 2: here and there, and they feel like they have to
Speaker 2: force the issue. And I see that you know where
Speaker 2: you're going with this, and Scotty seems to stick to
Speaker 2: the script perfectly. But I just think that, you know,
Speaker 2: when talking about Scotty Scheffler, we're talking about an outlier
Speaker 2: in terms of the amount that he that he commands
Speaker 2: his golf ball. You know, he's you know, you know,
Speaker 2: to put it in in you know, a baseball analogy
Speaker 2: if I can, I mean, to me, he's Greg Maddox.
Speaker 3: But he can throw ninety eight.
Speaker 2: You know, he's he's got plenty of speed off the
Speaker 2: tee and he just he knows.
Speaker 3: Exactly how far all of his clubs are.
Speaker 2: Going, and you know he can he can pick things
Speaker 2: apart as a result. But you know, he he does
Speaker 2: everything so well. And and of course his putting stats
Speaker 2: now have improved so much over the last few years
Speaker 2: with the work he's done with Phil Kenyon.
Speaker 1: It's just.
Speaker 2: He's just something else and I love watching the guy,
Speaker 2: and you know, obviously it's going to be fascinating what
Speaker 2: kind of Ryder Cup he has because because you know,
Speaker 2: the Americans are going to rely on him to a
Speaker 2: tremendous degree, you know, given the depression that's gonna be
Speaker 2: on him there that Friday morning.
Speaker 1: I mean, you think back four years to Whistling Straits
Speaker 1: and yeah, the he was like he was the unproven
Speaker 1: last pick he had won on tour and one right,
Speaker 1: and then John Rom's putting together this incredible Ryder Cup,
Speaker 1: incredible performance. He's he's keeping the European team in it. Ye,
Speaker 1: you know, Rory was having having a bad week. You know,
Speaker 1: you look at it like you look back at that
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup team and you're Rory is like, you know,
Speaker 1: I think he was like twelfth or something in the
Speaker 1: world rankings. Victor Hovelin was, you know, a fringe top
Speaker 1: fifteen player, and it was like John Ram was like
Speaker 1: the guy, you know, and and he's having this great
Speaker 1: and then it's like, oh, they just threw Scheffler in,
Speaker 1: you know there. I remember the discourse being like they're
Speaker 1: just kind of giving that bad and that's sure enough.
Speaker 1: I think it was like Scotty's four up through four
Speaker 1: or something in that match. And it was this, you know,
Speaker 1: you could you could point to a lot of things,
Speaker 1: but you know, him contending at Harding Park, you know,
Speaker 1: early in his his his his PGA Tour career, the
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup and then that that next year launches him
Speaker 1: into the class of player that you know he is now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was, as you say, it was this
Speaker 2: coming out party there Whistling Straits and you know who
Speaker 2: knows I had heard, you know, just through the grapevine
Speaker 2: that he was he was like a player pick that
Speaker 2: week that you know, you certainly get Ryder Cups where
Speaker 2: these captains will walk in amongst the six guys that
Speaker 2: are going to make it on points of the guys
Speaker 2: that you know are ultimately going to be there, and
Speaker 2: they'll say, you know, who are we not going there
Speaker 2: without this? You know that week who you know who,
Speaker 2: who's our lock picks? And I had heard that, you know,
Speaker 2: there there was just an absolute avalanche of support for
Speaker 2: Scottie and and as you say, even though he hadn't
Speaker 2: won yet, and you know, they show that kind of
Speaker 2: faith in him, that kind of love, if you will,
Speaker 2: and he responds with that incredible victory over John Rahm,
Speaker 2: and you know, off he goes, and he's been the
Speaker 2: best player in the world for you know, for a
Speaker 2: large part ever since.
Speaker 1: It's you know it sometimes like when you're you, you
Speaker 1: play I imagine with these guys, when they play with someone,
Speaker 1: they're the result.
Speaker 4: Like it.
Speaker 1: Golf such a results driven sport where it's like, what
Speaker 1: did you finish? But there's more to the story than
Speaker 1: the finish or the wins. Is there another player that
Speaker 1: reminds you that maybe not, It wasn't scorching right out
Speaker 1: of the gates that everybody was like that that guy
Speaker 1: is better than what what the public perception thinks right now,
Speaker 1: where like the players knew or the caddies knew before
Speaker 1: the results really showed it.
Speaker 2: That's that's a really interesting question. Yeah, there's certainly gonna
Speaker 2: be several examples of that. I mean, though he's obviously
Speaker 2: on the European Ryder Cup side, I would say Victor
Speaker 2: Hovland is a guy that there was a huge buzz about,
Speaker 2: you know, very early on, and people were talking about
Speaker 2: this guy's can't miss, he's gonna you know, he's gonna
Speaker 2: win majors, he's going to be a force in the
Speaker 2: Ryder Cup. You know, you can go back into the
Speaker 2: mid nineties. I remember they used to have this amazing
Speaker 2: tournament called the Dunhill Cup in Scotland where you would
Speaker 2: play for your country. There would be three guys and
Speaker 2: you would have, you know, play stroke play against three
Speaker 2: guys from another country. And we went over there in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six. It was Phil marco'murra and Steve Stricker
Speaker 2: and the guys on the other team had The other
Speaker 2: teams had basically never heard of Steve Stricker. I mean
Speaker 2: they'd seen his name in the newspaper and whatnot, but
Speaker 2: they had no idea what they were dealing with. And
Speaker 2: the US ended up winning that week. And the only
Speaker 2: strategy we had as a team was we were going
Speaker 2: to put Stricker against the best player on the other team,
Speaker 2: and he was just waxing everybody. And and that was
Speaker 2: an example of of you know, us and and certainly
Speaker 2: you know players around the tour and Gaddy's having an
Speaker 2: idea of how good Steve was very early.
Speaker 3: On in his career, and you know, the amazing putter
Speaker 3: that he was.
Speaker 2: But uh, you know, I'm just thinking off the top
Speaker 2: of my head, there's another player that that that I'm
Speaker 2: going to have to it's gonna come to me here
Speaker 2: in a second.
Speaker 3: That would certainly relate to what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, one that like if I
Speaker 1: think what I think about it is like one that
Speaker 1: comes to mind is like there's that great Steve Williams
Speaker 1: quote about Brooks Kopka, like a couple of years before
Speaker 1: he went on his major run. Like there's there's certain
Speaker 1: guys that when when you walk by on the range,
Speaker 1: it sounds different Brooks cup goes like, you know, and
Speaker 1: I think that pre dated any of his major wins
Speaker 1: and and kind of you know, you think about a
Speaker 1: guy that went played on the European Tour and the
Speaker 1: Challenge Tour before he came.
Speaker 4: To the US.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's you know, but there you can't
Speaker 1: fake it sometimes when you when you go around or
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes I think what's interesting about golf is like,
Speaker 1: you know, especially you could play with someone and you
Speaker 1: could beat them on a day, but you walk away
Speaker 1: maybe knowing that they have stuff that you don't have,
Speaker 1: you know, And I think that's like the interesting thing
Speaker 1: about like the highest levels of golf and like a
Speaker 1: Scottie Scheffler be you know, being a player. Pick would
Speaker 1: be one that like probably some of those guys have
Speaker 1: had seen him play on tour and be like I
Speaker 1: don't have that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's right. And during the pandemic, you know whatever.
Speaker 2: It was twenty twenty one and the tour played two
Speaker 2: consecutive weeks at the at the in Columbus, Ohio at
Speaker 2: Jack Nicholas's place there at Mierfield Village, and I caddied
Speaker 2: both of those weeks for Matt Fitzpatrick and I can't
Speaker 2: remember who was the first week of the second week,
Speaker 2: but we got out Thursday Friday pairing and one of
Speaker 2: the guys we were paired with was Scotti Scheffler. And
Speaker 2: I'd seen his name before, didn't know much about himknew
Speaker 2: that he was a relatively new guy on tour and
Speaker 2: it was fascinating to watch him play at that stage
Speaker 2: in his career and just to see the shots that
Speaker 2: he hit. And you know, I can remember being on
Speaker 2: the range with with Matt post rounds and looking at
Speaker 2: each other going, Wow, what's up with that Schefler kid.
Speaker 2: This kid's going places, and uh, you know it's it's
Speaker 2: it's I love seeing guys play at that stage and
Speaker 2: where where you can just see the you know, the
Speaker 2: superstar in them just waiting to burst out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's amazing. I I yeah, I I played, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a lower level. I played golf
Speaker 1: with uh, this guy who's become a really good buddy.
Speaker 1: And it was like the very early days of me
Speaker 1: doing this. And you know, at the time, I was
Speaker 1: playing competitive golf, uh at a you know, a good
Speaker 1: level for a working stiff, you know. And uh and
Speaker 1: I I remember I played like an early morning round
Speaker 1: we were at we were at a bar the night before,
Speaker 1: and I might have clipped him on the day, but
Speaker 1: I walked away and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: like he's so much better than me. Yeah, so much better.
Speaker 1: And like now he's like one of the you know,
Speaker 1: ten best Madams in the in the world. And it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's usually better, you know. And at the time he
Speaker 1: wasn't like even I don't think he was twenty five yet.
Speaker 1: But it's you know, it's just like funny how you
Speaker 1: can just sometimes tell it's like, you know, these people
Speaker 1: have something that you don't have. Yeah, and it's at
Speaker 1: every level of the game, whether it's at the club
Speaker 1: or at the pro level, or at the even elite
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Speaker 1: back to bones, you know, in terms of approach, you know,
Speaker 1: for a matchplay turbo. We've talked a little bit about
Speaker 1: the Locker Cup, little Ryder Cup, and you know, like,
Speaker 1: what is there anything that you guys are doing different
Speaker 1: inside the ropes at match play tournaments than stroke play tournaments.
Speaker 3: You're talking about from a caddy or a player perspective.
Speaker 1: Both, you got you can relay both. This is the
Speaker 1: unique perspective of you're not just somebody walking around with
Speaker 1: a notebook like me inside of the ropes.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now, I think certainly from a caddy perspective, well, you know,
Speaker 2: if you look at this year's Ryder Cup, we can
Speaker 2: almost I think, you know, nail how the golf course
Speaker 2: is going to be set up there should it should
Speaker 2: play quite long, I would assume, and I don't think
Speaker 2: that there's going to be a lot of rough, So
Speaker 2: I one of the things that I would be looking
Speaker 2: at as a caddy is your ability to play aggressively
Speaker 2: from the rough and still get after certain flags because
Speaker 2: you would think that I would think that the greens
Speaker 2: shouldn't be overly firmed there that week. You know, certainly
Speaker 2: a lot of it's gonna be weather dependent. But I
Speaker 2: just think that, you know, you go around the golf
Speaker 2: course as a caddy and you're just thinking.
Speaker 3: You know, birdies, birdies.
Speaker 2: You can't fake it at the Ryder Cup, and rarely
Speaker 2: is somebody going to give you a match. You've got
Speaker 2: to go out there and earn it. And I can
Speaker 2: remember walking the golf course at Hazeltem and you know,
Speaker 2: you see, you know, some opportunities to maybe get out
Speaker 2: there and make five or six birdies in a round
Speaker 2: and and hopefully you know, grab a hold of the
Speaker 2: match that you're ultimately competing in. And I think ik
Speaker 2: Fulfhill there and the singles match against Sergio in twenty
Speaker 2: sixteen and film eye either ten or eleven birdies on Sunday,
Speaker 2: and you just remember that they have these opportunities, and
Speaker 2: the golf course is set up in a fashion that
Speaker 2: really lets you get after it.
Speaker 1: That I feel like the Rory Reid match that day
Speaker 1: at Hazeltem, the start of that match overshadowed what was
Speaker 1: like one of the greatest singles matches of all time,
Speaker 1: that Sergio phil match, I mean was that the was
Speaker 1: that the best golf match that you've ever been a
Speaker 1: part of I mean Stson, the Stetson Phil at the
Speaker 1: Open was probably the best golf ever. Maybe.
Speaker 3: You know, some guy came up to me.
Speaker 2: I was at an Open Championship a few years later,
Speaker 2: and this guy came up to me, who was some
Speaker 2: kind of you know, math professor in Finland or something
Speaker 2: like that, was telling me that it was the Phil's
Speaker 2: performance in which he finished second in that particular Open
Speaker 2: championship was the fifth greatest performance in the history of
Speaker 2: majors based on this research that he'd done. He had
Speaker 2: become fascinated with, you know, the fact that Phil had
Speaker 2: played so well and ultimately not won the tournament. But
Speaker 2: I think that Phil's duel with Payne Stewart at late
Speaker 2: there at Pinehurst in ninety nine was also really really
Speaker 2: good golf at at an extremely high level on a
Speaker 2: great golf course. But yeah, you know, Phil was one
Speaker 2: of the great players of all time, and he needed
Speaker 2: and did a number of things, you know, incredibly well
Speaker 2: on big, big stages. But that that Sunday at Hazel team.
Speaker 3: Was way way up.
Speaker 1: There with with match play being your you know, we
Speaker 1: can week out on tour, they're playing the golf course
Speaker 1: like and you you try not to get wrapped up
Speaker 1: with like what other people are doing in a sense,
Speaker 1: and you're you're executing your game plan against the golf course.
Speaker 1: With match play, you're you're playing somebody else. And as
Speaker 1: much as I think, like people say, oh you still
Speaker 1: play the course, you try and treat it like you're
Speaker 1: playing somebody else and like what they do, it it
Speaker 1: alters how you play with match play. Do you see
Speaker 1: a different type of U style from these players in
Speaker 1: terms of like maybe they're a little bit more aggressive
Speaker 1: at times, and you know, is there a difference in
Speaker 1: how they go about attacking a golf course?
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 2: I think that in match play you certainly don't have
Speaker 2: to be perfect. You can get away with a little
Speaker 2: something here or there. I just think, again, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: about aggressive play and being rewarded for it and you know,
Speaker 2: hitting the ball hard.
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 2: I was laughing to myself this morning thinking about old
Speaker 2: Ryder Cup memories. If I if I could just tell
Speaker 2: a quick story when we went to twenty twelve, we
Speaker 2: had the tragic Ryder Cup in Chicago where the US
Speaker 2: gave up a big lead on Sunday, But it was
Speaker 2: Keegan Bradley's first Ryder Cup as a player, and it
Speaker 2: was it was basically a done deal that entire week
Speaker 2: that he was going to play with Phil in alternate shot.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if you've heard this story, but
Speaker 2: I think that Phil may have pulled a fast one
Speaker 2: on him in terms of who was going to hit
Speaker 2: the T shot off the first tee there in their
Speaker 2: first match. And I think Phil had planned on doing
Speaker 2: it and then informed Keegan pretty late in the process.
Speaker 2: Oh no, by the way, you're going to be teeing
Speaker 2: off on one. So they had their conversations. I knew that,
Speaker 2: you know, ultimately Keegan was going to hit this T shot.
Speaker 2: So I fourcaddied on the first hole there. Hey see'm
Speaker 2: not Hazeltine at Medina, and you know, I was about
Speaker 2: three hundred yards.
Speaker 3: Off the team.
Speaker 2: You get out there and you know it's a relad
Speaker 2: Ryder Cup and you're so jacked up as a caddy
Speaker 2: and it's just the most incredibly exciting week. And uh,
Speaker 2: I can hear from three hundred yards away the introduction
Speaker 2: and from the United States, you know, Michelson Bradley and
Speaker 2: to tee off, here's Keegan. He hits his T shot
Speaker 2: and when you're four, caddying is a caddy. You know,
Speaker 2: you need to pick the ball up, you know, get
Speaker 2: your act together, find a thing, get out there and
Speaker 2: take care of the origin. And I got nothing. I'm
Speaker 2: looking around. I don't know where this ball went. And
Speaker 2: the Marshalls are standing next to me. No one knows
Speaker 2: where it went relative to the shots have been played
Speaker 2: there earlier in the day. And then some and some says,
Speaker 2: look over there, and there's a ball forty yards short
Speaker 2: of the green. Keegan had literally hit the you know,
Speaker 2: the longest drive of his life off this first tea
Speaker 2: and you know, we got a big kick out of it.
Speaker 2: And the match moves on, and we got to about
Speaker 2: the fourth or fifth hole and Phil was hitting a
Speaker 2: pot and so I had, you know, thirty seconds of
Speaker 2: myself and Keegan walked over to me and said, hey,
Speaker 2: I got a question for you.
Speaker 3: I said, what's that?
Speaker 2: He goes, what happened on holes one, two, and three.
Speaker 2: I completely blacked out. And he could not, for the
Speaker 2: life of him, remember anything that happened in the first
Speaker 2: few holes because he was just so amped up and
Speaker 2: just you know, driving it so far and was so
Speaker 2: into the moment and I think it just speaks for
Speaker 2: you know, where these guys go mentally that week, how
Speaker 2: excited they are to represent their country and their peers
Speaker 2: and and and all Americans, and you know, and the
Speaker 2: same works on the other side as well. It's just
Speaker 2: it's just the most amazing competition. They just can't wait
Speaker 2: to get after it.
Speaker 1: I imagine you gotta like, from a caddy perspective, it
Speaker 1: could be challenging because of the sheer amount of adrenaline
Speaker 1: trying to try to figure out like what how the
Speaker 1: body and how the swing and distances react.
Speaker 3: No question.
Speaker 2: You know, you look back over certain shots that you
Speaker 2: that you caddied at or with, you know, with your player,
Speaker 2: and I kick myself. Now, when when Phil had that
Speaker 2: match with Sergio, we had a wedge into the last hole.
Speaker 2: It was like one hundred and twenty eight yards and
Speaker 2: you know, beautiful weather. They're in Minnesota that weekend, and
Speaker 2: I did not do a good enough job of factoring
Speaker 2: and adrenaline and where these guys were at in terms
Speaker 2: of how far they were hitting the ball because of
Speaker 2: how jacked up they were. And Phil hit this web
Speaker 2: shot and it was all over it and we didn't
Speaker 2: get the reaction from the from the crowd that I
Speaker 2: expected to. And you walked up there and the ball was,
Speaker 2: you know, twenty five thirty feet behind the flag, and
Speaker 2: I was just so upset with myself that I hadn't
Speaker 2: factored in enough for adrenaline relative that shot being played
Speaker 2: on the eighth hole in a match as tense as
Speaker 2: this one, and Phil made it anyway down the hill.
Speaker 3: But you're right there. There's so much to.
Speaker 2: Take care of and to consider in these matches, and
Speaker 2: you'll see guys you know, do some pretty outlandish things
Speaker 2: that weeks because they have just so much pumping through
Speaker 2: their bodies.
Speaker 1: Is that a challenge too? Is it more of a
Speaker 1: challenge to then a normal tour event just managing emotions
Speaker 1: that can happen throughout a match?
Speaker 2: I would say without question, I think there's things that
Speaker 2: go on the Ryder Cup that don't go on anywhere else,
Speaker 2: maybe also including the Majors. The Ryder Cup is just
Speaker 2: unique unto itself, and in my experience at least, I've
Speaker 2: never seen guys you know, feel quite as much pressure
Speaker 2: as they do at Ryder Cups. Certainly if you've got delayed,
Speaker 2: you know, the last round of a major That's that's
Speaker 2: that's very similar as well. But it's I think that
Speaker 2: that you feel so much pressure given the facts you've
Speaker 2: got eleven teammates, you know, other caddies, you know, the
Speaker 2: front office, if you will, with the captains, you just
Speaker 2: feel an incredible responsibility to get it done. And you know,
Speaker 2: nobody wants to be the reason why you didn't get
Speaker 2: it done, and it's it's just just I just think
Speaker 2: it's just the most amazing tournament. And I think that
Speaker 2: the Ryder Cup's what's so great about sports.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's dynamic shift for these guys. I think
Speaker 1: like one of the things that makes golf extraordinarily difficult
Speaker 1: is anything that's like a different feeling, a new feeling.
Speaker 1: I think that's you know, when you see people struggle
Speaker 1: in major championships, like it just feels a little different.
Speaker 1: There's more weight to it with with the you know,
Speaker 1: these guys have played their entire careers really for the
Speaker 1: most part for themselves, and you know, you you learn
Speaker 1: this if I grew up, I grew up caddying and
Speaker 1: then like occasionally caddy for my friends in tournaments that
Speaker 1: you know, I'm you know, and I found my I
Speaker 1: find myself more nervous caddying than playing, because like I
Speaker 1: get more nervous because I'm not in control. And I
Speaker 1: think there's a layer of these guys like having the
Speaker 1: weight of like it's in a in a in a
Speaker 1: best ball or an alter shot, having the weight of
Speaker 1: like I'm not just letting down myself because I think
Speaker 1: it's like easier to let down yourself than let down
Speaker 1: anybody else. And I think that's like the added dynamic
Speaker 1: of the Ryder Cup or any team matchplay competition of
Speaker 1: that it's new and it's a different feeling, you know,
Speaker 1: and they just don't play it enough that you can
Speaker 1: get some really crazy outlier shots and performances is both
Speaker 1: good and bad.
Speaker 2: I agree, Yeah, I completely agree with you. It's fascinating.
Speaker 2: One thing I will say about this Ryder Cup that
Speaker 2: I think is very important that hasn't necessarily happened at
Speaker 2: previous Ryder Cups is I think it's going to be
Speaker 2: very interesting to see as how close to the actual
Speaker 2: competition itself the twelve guys on the team actually play.
Speaker 2: In other words, you know, is NAPA going to end
Speaker 2: up with an amazing field this year? Because you know,
Speaker 2: everybody wants to play within a couple of weeks of
Speaker 2: the tournament, whereas I think in Rome, the American team
Speaker 2: a vast majority of them hadn't played for several weeks
Speaker 2: running up into the competition, whereas the Europeans had.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Europeans run up to the Ryder Cups perfect
Speaker 1: because they have all the European Tour's biggest event effectively
Speaker 1: like the big swing of their season, and it leads
Speaker 1: right into the Ryder Cup. And as you know, you
Speaker 1: did a lot of work. You you have a you
Speaker 1: have a digital series with aon that like dives into
Speaker 1: the golf course and the course insights in terms of
Speaker 1: of what we can expect from Beth Page, What would
Speaker 1: be what would you be looking at from like a
Speaker 1: skill set standpoint that you think will thrive at at
Speaker 1: beth Page, Black and and and type of things you'd
Speaker 1: be looking for if you were setting up a team.
Speaker 2: Uh, certainly some length off the tea. It's a it's
Speaker 2: a big golf course. I also think that length off
Speaker 2: the tea can can help in terms, you know, psychologically
Speaker 2: in terms of you know who you're playing against, especially
Speaker 2: if you're longer than the guys that you're competing against.
Speaker 2: But length off the tea, you know, solid ball strikers,
Speaker 2: and I you know, it goes without saying, but in
Speaker 2: my experience, Ryder Cups are one, you know, on putts
Speaker 2: between ten and twenty feet and who can you know,
Speaker 2: create some momentum with that flat stick and ultimately get
Speaker 2: it done. So it's when I was with a on
Speaker 2: and we were we were breaking down the golf course
Speaker 2: and looking at it a lot from a data driven standpoint.
Speaker 2: I just think that you've got to have world class
Speaker 2: ball strikers and certainly some guys that can you know,
Speaker 2: pick up a little bit of heat with the putter.
Speaker 2: But length off the tea, I think that week is
Speaker 2: going to be extremely important.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Obviously, big golf course with elevated targets, the last agreens
Speaker 1: up on rages where hitting it high and long is
Speaker 1: a big, big benefit. And we saw that last at
Speaker 1: the last PGA there where you know, yeah, yeah Brooks
Speaker 1: and DJ way out in front to the at the
Speaker 1: time longest you know, most accomplished you know drivers and
Speaker 1: ball strikers in the sport. You know with Beth Page
Speaker 1: are there are there a couple holes that stand out
Speaker 1: in particular for match play.
Speaker 3: Yeah, fifteen for me is uh.
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be a massive hole that
Speaker 2: week in terms of you know, willing winning and losing.
Speaker 2: It's a it's a very difficult te shot because there's
Speaker 2: the whole dog legs to the left. It's an uphill
Speaker 2: second shot with some great whole locations on the green,
Speaker 2: but it's a very intimidating T shot because it's hard.
Speaker 2: You can't really it's like an infinity edge fair away.
Speaker 2: You can't really see what you're hitting into and there's
Speaker 2: very little to aim at. So I think that that
Speaker 2: hole in particular could could go a long way and
Speaker 2: determining a lot of matches as they come down the stretch.
Speaker 4: That's uh.
Speaker 1: You know the uh I think like that whole back
Speaker 1: nine set up is pretty you know, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of holes that kind of like separate great you
Speaker 1: know even at the start of it. You know, the
Speaker 1: finish eighteen will be a fun finishing whole obviously, like
Speaker 1: super executional T shot beth Age. You know, you hear
Speaker 1: about like great matchpy golf courses. I think like, you know,
Speaker 1: great golf courses aligned themselves to you know, great matchplight
Speaker 1: courses in general, and I think that's you know, one
Speaker 1: of the the aspects of that Beth Page will bring
Speaker 1: is that it is going to be one of the
Speaker 1: better Ryder Cup venues that we will see.
Speaker 3: Agreed.
Speaker 2: I think that's it's it's one of the best golf
Speaker 2: courses in the country. It's it's relentless from the get go.
Speaker 2: You're going to see birdies, You're going to see bogie's.
Speaker 2: The course, I imagine, will be an amazing, amazing condition.
Speaker 2: I know the first time I stepped on it in
Speaker 2: two thousand and two and two thousand and nine, to
Speaker 2: those two US Opens, I couldn't believe the condition of
Speaker 2: the greens.
Speaker 3: They were like carpet.
Speaker 2: So I just think it's going to be amazing and
Speaker 2: certainly a very pro American crowd. I'll be a neutral
Speaker 2: observe of that week working for NBC, but it's it's
Speaker 2: it's it's going to be an amazing show for a
Speaker 2: lot of people for a lot of reasons. And I
Speaker 2: cannot wait. I mean, we talked about you can't wait
Speaker 2: for the Walker Cup. Between the Walker Cup and the
Speaker 2: Ryder Cup this year, we've got some amazing golf this fall.
Speaker 1: It kind of Uh, it makes for the the the
Speaker 1: letdown of major season being over is like not that
Speaker 1: harsh this year, having both those events with you. You
Speaker 1: mentioned the fans. You you've been in the mix late,
Speaker 1: You've been late on Sunday inside the ropes at Shinnacock,
Speaker 1: Beth Page and uh and wing Foot. I'm curious if
Speaker 1: you know New York fans get they have quite a reputation.
Speaker 1: Their reputation precedes themselves. Is there a different dynamics based
Speaker 1: off of the different you know, big time courses and
Speaker 1: in the met area. I guess Baltistrall would be another one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's funny at Baltisroll when Phil won
Speaker 2: there in five, we had the unique experience. Phil led
Speaker 2: early on Sunday, had some momentum, looked like the guy
Speaker 2: that was maybe gonna win the tournament, and then gave
Speaker 2: up the lead in the middle of the round. And
Speaker 2: there were certainly some people in the gallery that weren't
Speaker 2: fired particularly happy with with with what was going out there.
Speaker 2: They'll let you know it, so you know, I'm filling
Speaker 2: it up, you know, rebounding and winning the tournament on
Speaker 2: the seventy second.
Speaker 3: Hall, making a birdie.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's it's gonna be really really interesting,
Speaker 2: and you know, I think that, uh, you know, the
Speaker 2: crowds are going to be incredible. They're going to be
Speaker 2: really really supportive, but uh, you know, if you go
Speaker 2: out there and lay an egg, they're going to let
Speaker 2: you know about it. So, uh, it's gonna be incredibly unique.
Speaker 2: They're they're very knowledgeable sports fans. I hope we get
Speaker 2: a lot of local people from the beth Page area
Speaker 2: that would make it that much more special, But uh,
Speaker 2: I tell you, it's just to have it there. I
Speaker 2: just remember going there in O two and and seeing
Speaker 2: the setup of the golf course and seeing the huge
Speaker 2: bleachers behind the seventeenth green air that par three up
Speaker 2: the hill, and a lot of people that we were
Speaker 2: talking about, can you imagine.
Speaker 3: If we ever had a Ryder Cup here?
Speaker 2: And and now all these years later, now it's happening,
Speaker 2: and I just think it's going to be one of
Speaker 2: the great great Ryder Cup spots in the US that
Speaker 2: we've ever seen.
Speaker 1: O two. Obviously you're in the mix six you're in
Speaker 1: the mix or in the mix at are at at
Speaker 1: wing Foot? What are what were your favorite memories. Maybe
Speaker 1: not favorite, but you know, most vivid memories from uh
Speaker 1: from Beth Page over the years and in the majors.
Speaker 2: I would say, you know, certainly did fans come to
Speaker 2: mind immediately, Uh, just the quality of the golf course,
Speaker 2: just how relentlessly tough it is, as you say, the
Speaker 2: back nine you get to ten. We had the fascinating
Speaker 2: thing happen in an O two where the the the
Speaker 2: USGA didn't anticipate the weather coming in I think on
Speaker 2: Friday as much as they could have, and guys couldn't
Speaker 2: reach the tenth fairway U, which was of uh made
Speaker 2: for some really interesting post round discussion in the locker
Speaker 2: room and the range. Uh that that that was a
Speaker 2: really really interesting day. You know, I think the weather
Speaker 2: could play a big part in this Rider Cup. I
Speaker 2: don't know what we're gonna get, but I think we
Speaker 2: can get just about anything in terms of sunshine, rain,
Speaker 2: you know, warm, cool, whatever.
Speaker 3: The case may be.
Speaker 2: Uh, But Uh, I just think that it's it's it's
Speaker 2: just it's so unique to that area and the fact
Speaker 2: that it's, you know, a public golf course. You know
Speaker 2: that that brings a little something, a little flavor to
Speaker 2: the to the event itself, and you know in terms
Speaker 2: of you know, the folks you get out there are
Speaker 2: rooting for you. You know, I can make a part
Speaker 2: on that whole what are you doing kind of thing. So, uh,
Speaker 2: it's it's just uh, it's just a classic, classic American venue.
Speaker 1: What's a favorite Ryder Cup? Bevery You obviously talked about
Speaker 1: Hazel Team, any other in the in the Kick and Bradley,
Speaker 1: any other Ryder Cup memories that jumped in mind.
Speaker 2: I mean, how much time you got. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: there's there's great memories. There's incredibly tough memories. I can
Speaker 2: tell you a story if we have a couple of
Speaker 2: minutes about the very first Ryder Cup I ever went to.
Speaker 3: If you want yea, let's hear it.
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety three, Phil won the International and the
Speaker 2: Ryder Cup was going to be played that year at
Speaker 2: the Belfrey and Phil didn't get picked. He was, you know,
Speaker 2: it wasn't a big surprise at the time. He'd want
Speaker 2: you know, he'd just turned pro and I've been pro
Speaker 2: for a year and a half. But Phil had won
Speaker 2: the International, and I had made a few bucks, and
Speaker 2: I was obsessed with going to the Ryder Cup. I
Speaker 2: wanted to go, want to go see it, wanted to
Speaker 2: go check it out for myself.
Speaker 3: So I thought to myself.
Speaker 2: I called my buddy Joe Lacava, who was cutting for
Speaker 2: Fred Couples. I said, if I buy a ticket to
Speaker 2: come over there to watch the Ryder Cup, can I
Speaker 2: crash on the floor of your hotel because I knew
Speaker 2: there'd be nowhere to stay.
Speaker 3: And he said, sure, of course you can.
Speaker 2: So I went over there, flew over there on my
Speaker 2: own dime, you know, found my way to the belfry
Speaker 2: and I was there about an hour, and I got
Speaker 2: pressed into service, if you will. And what I mean
Speaker 2: by that this is back before there were four or
Speaker 2: five assistant captains and an unbelievable staff of people to
Speaker 2: take care of you. Back then, it was just Tom Watson,
Speaker 2: the captain, his assistant Stan Thirsk, and nobody else. So
Speaker 2: in terms of you know, there being somebody to grab
Speaker 2: you a dozen balls, or to grab you a sandwich
Speaker 2: or whatever the case may be, that turned out to
Speaker 2: be me. I got hired as the team go for
Speaker 2: So I'm running around during these practice rounds just having
Speaker 2: the time of my life. I've gone from being outside
Speaker 2: the ropes and now being inside the ropes and it's great.
Speaker 2: So come Friday morning, it's it's it's time.
Speaker 3: For the for the.
Speaker 2: Action to happen. And the players go with that, are
Speaker 2: playing Friday morning, go out and warm up on the range,
Speaker 2: and you know, guys are nervous, really really nervous or
Speaker 2: hitting balls and not much as going on other than
Speaker 2: a little bit of small talk. And it's getting within
Speaker 2: about five or ten minutes of the first group going off,
Speaker 2: the first team, which I think was Tom Kite and
Speaker 2: Davis Love playing somebody, and this huge fog bank rolls
Speaker 2: in and just just choose up the entire golf course.
Speaker 2: Major fog delay. So they send the players to the
Speaker 2: locker rooms and they say, here's the deal. We're gonna
Speaker 2: wait for this fog to leave, but we're not going
Speaker 2: to give you another chance to warm up. When when
Speaker 2: when this fog leaves? Because of TV, we've got to
Speaker 2: get going. So we're gonna go straight from the locker
Speaker 2: room to the tee. So now you've got twelve guys
Speaker 2: or whoever's playing that morning in in the locker room
Speaker 2: and you know, this FOG's not going anywhere, and guys
Speaker 2: are you know, you're eating again, You're you're you're talking
Speaker 2: to your wife, you're you guys are pacing the you know.
Speaker 3: The floors.
Speaker 2: It's a really nerve racking time. And so Fred couples
Speaker 2: who's on the team. All the all the bags of
Speaker 2: the players were up against this wall near the the
Speaker 2: the locker room entrance. Fred's going through everybody's golf bag
Speaker 2: and checking out the it was latest in terms of
Speaker 2: their their equipment. He's, you know, making his way down
Speaker 2: down this still this list of golf bags and he
Speaker 2: gets the Davis Loves and he takes out Davis Loves
Speaker 2: eight iron and he waggles it and the head falls
Speaker 2: off the shaft and this thing's bouncing around on this
Speaker 2: marble floor. And every day there's this gasp in the
Speaker 2: team room and you know there's there's Fred just holding
Speaker 2: this shaft now that the club heads on the floor,
Speaker 2: and I swear to goodness, you know, thirty seconds later
Speaker 2: this guy comes in and said five minute call. FOG's
Speaker 2: leaving for love and kite. So Davis runs over, picks
Speaker 2: up his eight iron head, grabs a shaft and says
Speaker 2: to me, fix it. And this is back, you know,
Speaker 2: before you had, you know, tidlest trucks with with everything
Speaker 2: known to man on it where you could get something fixed.
Speaker 2: There's nothing. There's absolutely nothing. And he's given me this,
Speaker 2: this club to get fixed. And so you know, I'm
Speaker 2: in an absolute panic. I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2: I go to the pro shop. They say, we've got nothing.
Speaker 2: But I'll tell you what. If you cross that field
Speaker 2: over there, run across that field and then another field,
Speaker 2: you take a right at that cow kind of thing,
Speaker 2: there's a farmer there, and I guarantee you that guy's
Speaker 2: got a POxy. So I do what I'm told. I
Speaker 2: grab this this shaft and this clubhead and the shaft,
Speaker 2: and I'm running here and I'm running there and I
Speaker 2: see that the farm in the distance. And I get
Speaker 2: out to where this is and there's a very nice
Speaker 2: man there, and I say, do you happen to have
Speaker 2: any epoxy? And this guy's you know, got quite the
Speaker 2: garage and the barn going and this and that he goes,
Speaker 2: I certainly do. He epoxies the head and we get
Speaker 2: it fixed. I run back, you know, get out there.
Speaker 2: Davis and Tom Kid on the fourth or fifth hole.
Speaker 2: Give him this eight iron and off they go. So
Speaker 2: they play this match, the Ryder Cup goes on. It
Speaker 2: was an incredible Ryder Cup. The US was down, they
Speaker 2: were down and out, and John Cook and Chip Beck
Speaker 2: won a match against Fouldu and Montgomery. They weren't supposed
Speaker 2: to win. This kind of flip the script in the momentum,
Speaker 2: the entire Roder Cup in the US was coming back now,
Speaker 2: and so we get out there on Sunday and basically
Speaker 2: the Ryder Cup came down to one match, and it
Speaker 2: was Constantino Roca against Davis Love and the eighteenth hole
Speaker 2: of the Belfry of this incredibly difficult driving hole dog
Speaker 2: leg left over water and Davis Love to this day
Speaker 2: hit one of the gritst shots they've ever seen. Hit
Speaker 2: this three hundred yard three wood carried the water on
Speaker 2: the left out in the ferry, leaving just the short
Speaker 2: iron left into this green and he had to knock
Speaker 2: the short iron on the green two putt, and the
Speaker 2: US was going to win the Ryder Cup. So I'm
Speaker 2: just watching from the side with all the players. He
Speaker 2: hits the short i on the green, it spins back
Speaker 2: off a ridge. He's got a two putt from forty
Speaker 2: feet leaves it six feet short, so he's got a
Speaker 2: six foot and now to win the Ryder Cup, which
Speaker 2: he makes, and you know, we all pour onto the
Speaker 2: green and I'm you know, not you know, I'm twenty
Speaker 2: six years old or something like that and very new
Speaker 2: to the business, and just the team Gopher and Davis
Speaker 2: came over to me and grabbed me and by my
Speaker 2: college and said that was your eight iron. I hit
Speaker 2: into the last hole and it just you know, you know,
Speaker 2: if I hadn't already fallen in love with the event
Speaker 2: at that point, I certainly did then in that moment.
Speaker 3: And uh, that was just a Ryder Cup story. I'll
Speaker 3: never forget.
Speaker 1: Did you have much of a of a of a
Speaker 1: club repair background when you're I know.
Speaker 3: I got I got nothing. I mean, I mean, so
Speaker 3: you just.
Speaker 1: Put the foxy in and jammed it in there in
Speaker 1: the barn.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, you know I can buy the grip.
Speaker 2: You know, I can't what kind of grips day was
Speaker 2: head back in the day, but it was just an
Speaker 2: absolute mess. And this this farmer, if you will, for
Speaker 2: lack of a better description, absolutely just saved the day.
Speaker 1: Uh little do you know what he did to this
Speaker 1: his home.
Speaker 3: Team exactly right, A good point.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that would happen at beth
Speaker 1: Page if if a European needed needed some help from
Speaker 1: a nearby runt.
Speaker 3: Go down to the local garage from the boxy. Not
Speaker 3: a chance, brother, We're you know, months out.
Speaker 1: Who would you give the edge to with with your
Speaker 1: knowledge of beth Page? Who would you? Is there is
Speaker 1: there a side that you would tilt the advantage to?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: No, I think that both teams have a lot of
Speaker 2: length and uh to your point about the European side,
Speaker 2: you know, filling out very very nicely that I think
Speaker 2: they're they're in really good shape and I can't say
Speaker 2: enough for how much momentum you carry into a Ryder
Speaker 2: Cup as the defending champion, if you will. I think
Speaker 2: the Europeans are probably very happy with with where they stand,
Speaker 2: and I think the American team is getting stronger by
Speaker 2: the week. I'm fascinated by the whole Chris goddter Up situation. Yes,
Speaker 2: I think that's gonna be really really interesting to see
Speaker 2: how that plays out, especially considering the young man's from
Speaker 2: New Jersey and could be a complete folk hero that
Speaker 2: week should he make the team and ultimately, you know,
Speaker 2: do some damage. But I think this is this is
Speaker 2: lining up to be a very even heavyweight tilt.
Speaker 1: All right, Big thanks for Bones for joining the podcast.
Speaker 4: That was fun. We'll have to have them back on.
Speaker 1: It has been great.
Speaker 4: To get to know Bones over the last year.
Speaker 1: We did a video on our YouTube with Luke Colton,
Speaker 1: a potential Walker cover. Go check that out on our
Speaker 1: YouTube channel at PGA Frisco. But big thanks and Bones
Speaker 1: for coming on, and big thanks to PJ Clark for
Speaker 1: editing producing this podcast. We'll be back next week with
Speaker 1: a new episode of the Friday Golf Podcast.