1 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Cutting the Distance today. My guess is 2 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,159 Speaker 1: from the big city of Weipe, Idaho. One of my 3 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: good buddies Helps Game Calls marketing director and all around 4 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: the face of the company, the Bugler, also known as 5 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: Dirk Durham. How you doing today? Oh fantastic? We are 6 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: what five days away from September? Six days? Yeah? Yeah, 7 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 1: it is close. It's I kind of quit counting at 8 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 1: this point. Is everything is a blur. I wake up 9 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: disoriented and discombobulated and trying to figure out is this 10 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: today to day? Oh good, I got more time to pack. Yeah, 11 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: we're getting close. So, just like any other Cutting the 12 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: Distance episode, we're gonna take a few questions from the listeners. 13 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: If you have any questions of your own, make sure 14 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: to reach out to us at ct D at Phelps 15 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: game Calls dot com. So we're gonna jump into the 16 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: first user question or use your question listener question, how 17 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: long will you work a bowl before changing tactics? Um? 18 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 1: I think it's kind of different on every single one 19 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: of them. Um, I get this gut feeling, and I 20 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: think the gut feeling I have is just from lots 21 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: of reps in the Elk Woods. So for new hunters, 22 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of hard to know and hard 23 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: to gauge that. But but usually UM, as I'm working 24 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 1: in bowl, if things aren't happening and I need to 25 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: move up, I need to get closer than some something 26 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: inside me says, let's go. But UM, if if you 27 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: want to break that down a little bit and evaluate it, 28 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: I would say, when things start slowing down, Let's say 29 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: you've been called into this bowl and things are escalating good, 30 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: he's getting warm, he's getting wound up, he's coming closer, 31 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: and then things kind of slow down and he quits 32 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: calling so much. You know, maybe the frequency of his calling, 33 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: or maybe the intensitive his calls just you know, have 34 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: has he's taken it down a notch, like he's he's 35 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 1: starting a second guess, maybe his ability to fight um 36 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: or steal the ladies from you if you will, UM. 37 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: And it's usually at that time I'm gonna switch things up, 38 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: change things up. UM. A lot of times I'll just 39 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: if if things start slowing down and he's kind of 40 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: locked up, and if he's not to you know, if 41 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,959 Speaker 1: if he's still a hundred two hundred yards out, UM, 42 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: I'm moving and I'm on the move right, Um, I'm 43 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: gonna move quickly. I'm I'm at that point. I'm not 44 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: probably gonna try to be really quiet. I want him 45 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: to hear me coming. I want him to hear hear 46 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: me popp and brush. I want him to think, oh, 47 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: that bull is coming in. And sometimes just breaking that, um, 48 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, walking fifty yards breaking a lot of brush, 49 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: that that'll get that will peak his interest again and 50 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: that will kind of kick things up. Um maybe not. 51 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: Maybe I'll have to almost get right on top of 52 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: that that bowl before you know, he he gets gets 53 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: going again. It's kind of a flying line if if 54 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: you get too aggressive, and this has happened before too, 55 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: sometimes they clam up and then they're just on a 56 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: they're on a mission. They're coming right to you. And 57 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: by being too aggressive, I've I've been caught with my 58 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: pants down, you know, I think, oh, I need to 59 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: move up, and I walk about fifty yards and there 60 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: he is standing there looking at me. So it it 61 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: is a fine line you gotta walk. But I guess 62 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: it's back to that gut feeling, like after you've done 63 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: it enough times, you started having these little gut femals 64 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: feelings and like okay, we need to go or let's 65 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: just stay put for bit. Yeah. One one of the 66 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: times I remember specifically, um, you know, when we were 67 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: in Colorado, we had kind of got in a in 68 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: a lock up with a bowl that just would not budge. 69 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: I think he maybe was there for what minutes straight, 70 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: just us biggling from the same location, him biggling from 71 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: the same location. And then you know, me and you 72 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: at the same time, like we started looking at each 73 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: other like all right, something out of the box. And 74 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: that's when you started to do the old we I 75 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: whiz bang um, you know, and you started as the 76 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: caller started to run back, you know, fifty sixty yards 77 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: and just breaking all kinds of brush just to change up, 78 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: you know, the presentation or or the calling that we 79 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: were giving them. And so you know, it's just you 80 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: feel like, all right, we've we've thrown everything at him. 81 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: We've we've you know, lip bald, we've cow called, we've 82 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: challenged biggles, we've barked, screamed, we've did everything we can 83 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: for the last twenty minutes, and just were we can't 84 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: give up ground. We can't make up ground. He's not 85 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 1: willing to give up any ground, you know, and so 86 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: then we just you know, changed tactics to something maybe 87 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: a little bit outside the box, especially like you said, 88 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: if it's a hundred yards away, but you know, the 89 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: vegetation or the terrain doesn't allow us to get any closer, 90 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: Like you're pretty much pinned down. The only thing you 91 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: can do is, you know, something outside the box like that. 92 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: And there's there's just those times where, like you said, 93 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: it's more of a gut feel like, all right, we've 94 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: we've played this, they allmate long enough, let's let's change 95 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 1: it up. Yeah. Well, you know in that particular scenario, Um, 96 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 1: that bowl just he he wasn't gonna come any further 97 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: without something changing. And we have to as helk callers 98 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: and hunters, we have to remember that. Um. Sometimes um, 99 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: we get in our set up and we get real 100 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: quiet in our movements. You know, we might do some ranking, 101 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: but you know, if you've been doing a lot of calling, 102 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: there's just doesn't seem like there's a lot going on 103 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: over there in that patch of trees, right, there's not 104 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of thumping around and not a bunch of 105 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: you know, antler tips going through the trees and stuff. 106 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: If you listen to you know elk that are that 107 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,239 Speaker 1: are farting around with their cow, you know bolls farting 108 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: around with their cows. Then you know they make they 109 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: make a lot of noise. So um, it's it's it's 110 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: adding that extra realism. It's like, okay, they're not coming in. Now, 111 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: we've got to double down on some some some noises 112 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: and movement. So, like you said, I ran back. I 113 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: faded back like a hundred yards and I can continue 114 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: to call. If anything, I escalated my calling like a 115 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: bull was following a naughty cow that wanted to get away, 116 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: or or maybe she was starting to like, oh man, 117 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: she's an estress. So I was, you know, staying with her. 118 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: And then that circle around, break a lot of brush. 119 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: I threw rocks, you know, made as much noise as 120 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: I could. But then I come right back up to 121 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: the to the shooter. But then I kind of faded 122 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: back again, just just painting that picture in that bull's 123 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: mind's eye, that man, there's really something going on there. 124 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: And I was hoping as I faded back again, he'd 125 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: want to come up and take a sniff, you know, 126 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: like I'm gonna go and see if I can see 127 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: something or maybe you know, I'll be able to smell something, 128 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: you know, where those elk had been in. Maybe I'll 129 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: you know, maybe there is a cald that's in Astris 130 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna just gonna go fight that other guy. Yea. 131 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: So those are the kind of things we want to 132 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: paint in those those bulls mind's eye. Yeah, And I'll 133 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: add one little, one more little piece to this. Is 134 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: a lot of times, you know, how long can we 135 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: sit there? It's different for if it's in the morning, 136 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: when those you know, elker wanting to go from feed 137 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: or travel to to a betting area, versus if it's 138 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: in the middle of the day, and if that bulls, 139 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: if we're calling to maybe a betted bull that will 140 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: answer occasionally, but he's not gonna move anywhere. Like our 141 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: our tactics are going to be completely different versus you know, 142 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: time of day, what those elk really want to do. 143 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: And if we can add some of that you know, 144 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: thought process into our decision making. Um. You know, that's 145 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: what we're doing out in the field. Every situation is different, um, 146 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: and we're we're making you know, changes on the fly 147 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: versus you know, if it's a betted bull, I might 148 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: work it for an hour and a half two hours 149 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: before I move, Versus if it's early in the morning 150 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: and something's held up, like, we may be more aggressive 151 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: because at some point we've seen it. You know, I 152 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: say a million times, but we've seen it a lot. Um. 153 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: You know, that bowl hold up for fifteen or twenty minutes, 154 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: and then you can almost guarantee the next time you 155 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: hear him, he's gonna be three or four yards away 156 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: because he's caught back up to his cows are back 157 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: up to the herd. That he's a satellite for whatnot. Um, 158 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: So I think you know, that time of day, what 159 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: they should be doing, you know, plays into into our tactics. 160 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I think one thing that that 161 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: you know needs to be said again is a lot 162 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: of times we don't set up once on a bowl. 163 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: You know, we're setting up to three, five, ten times. 164 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: You know, sometimes on these elk like we'd prefer it 165 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: and then and there have been set ups that work 166 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 1: where you go set up the one time and you're done, 167 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: But a lot of these early morning you know, if 168 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: you're fortunate to be on a bowl. First thing, in 169 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: the morning or you know, late at night when they're 170 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:47,719 Speaker 1: trying to move like a lot of times you are 171 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: playing you know a little bit of catch up and 172 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: then you know, setting up multiple times. Yeah, absolutely, I 173 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: hear it every year from l Conners. They're like, you know, 174 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: gee whiz, you know, I get into these balls and 175 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: and I just I call to him and they call back, 176 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: but they just keep moving off. They just keep moving off. Man, 177 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: what am I doing wrong? I must be scaring them away? Um. 178 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: But the reality of it is, you know, those those 179 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: elk have their their day mapped out already. They know, well, 180 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: we've played around all night and fed down here in 181 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: the meadow or up on the alpine ridge. But now 182 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 1: we're in that time of day we need we need 183 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: to start heading toward our bedding area. And you know, 184 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: you didn't do anything wrong. Those elk just want to 185 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: go and get in their bed because they've been up 186 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 1: all night and they want to go lay down. It's 187 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: in a nice, cool place. It's very secure, and a 188 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: lot of times those bolts feel a lot more confident 189 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: in defending those cows once they get in that bedding 190 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: area because it's there's I think there's a little strategy too, 191 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: and where a lot of times where these elk bed 192 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's a very defensible place. And and you 193 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: know if if you just give up and say, ah, shoot, 194 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: you know those you don't like my calling, I guess 195 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: we'll go back and make some breakfast burritos at the camp, 196 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: then that's a big mistake. You just gotta stay on them. Um, 197 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: you just kinda gotta dog them for a while. And 198 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: and sometimes you have to really pay attention to that 199 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: wind as you're following those elk to their bedding area, 200 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: because at some point that wind is gonna switch. Right, 201 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: typically they're gonna be traveling with that wind in their nose. 202 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,959 Speaker 1: And as they're let's say they're heading up the mountain 203 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:22,959 Speaker 1: to their betting area, they're traveling with that wind in 204 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: their nose. Um as they approach that betting area. A 205 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 1: lot of times now we're getting a lot more sunlight 206 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: on the hillside, and that's about the time the old 207 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: thermals switch. And if you're right behind them and you 208 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: get caught in that thermal switch and the wind starts 209 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: blowing up to them, it's a game over deal. So 210 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: so sometimes you know as that as that time UM 211 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: gets close. You know, I'm always monitoring, you know, where 212 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: where's the sunlight hitting the slope? Um. And as we 213 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: started keep approaching the time where I think the hillside 214 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: is gonna get warmed up and those thermals are gonna 215 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: start rising, then I'll break away and and completely spin 216 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: off in parallel. You know that maybe a finger ridge away, 217 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: you know, a hundred or two hundred, three hundred yards away. 218 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: Just to make sure I keep that wind in my favor, Um, 219 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think that can be um talked 220 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: about enough. Just obeying that wind to the point that, Um, 221 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: if it causes I'll cause you to hike in a 222 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: lot of extra miles in a day, it's it's worth it, 223 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: because if you if you foul him up with the wind, 224 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: it's of time. It's over. So you can't take it 225 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: for granted. Yeah, we keep dog piling on this um. 226 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,599 Speaker 1: But one thing that also needs to be said is 227 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: a lot of times, you know, if you're bugling or 228 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: even cal calling the cows and the herd. Most of 229 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: the time, I mean, there have been times where we've 230 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: called in the entire herd or the cows, but usually 231 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: you get the attention of that bowl, and he's willing 232 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: he knows, you know, if the rest of the herd 233 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: is not not scared or or startled, they'll typically just 234 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: feed their way along the bed right at a very 235 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: slow pace. So he almost feels that he's got know, 236 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: he's probably got fifteen twenty minutes. A lot of times 237 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: he can maintain visual on part of his herd, so 238 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: you can keep his attention for a certain amount of time, 239 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: but at the point where he knows that he's now 240 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: got to either see you or go catch back up 241 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: to his cows is typically all you can hold his 242 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: attention for. So that's kind of what I'm always thinking, 243 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: is like, all right, we've got a limited time, you know, 244 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: how fast the cows feeding, because that's about when he's 245 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: gonna leave if he doesn't see us or there's not 246 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: an altercation. Um. And so that's maybe why I feel 247 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: like we're a little more aggressive, Like all right, we've 248 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: we've got him here, but you know, you can only 249 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: do what the train vegetation allows. Um. Yeah, there's there's 250 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: a lot of things that go into how long we'll 251 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: work a bowl before we're gonna change tactics and and um, 252 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 1: you know, we can, we can give our best cookie 253 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: cutter examples, But at the same time, there's so many 254 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: other factors out in the woods that play into this. 255 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: You know, how well can you move? Are there other 256 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: bulls biggling? You know, if that herd bowl or satellite bowl, 257 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: if there's other bulls around, they're gonna be quicker to 258 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: leave or quicker to catch back up to the herd. 259 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: All that's gonna play in, UM, and a lot of 260 00:12:58,360 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: times you're gonna get stuck in a cat and mouse 261 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: game UM with them. So we're gonna move on to 262 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: the second question here. UM, how do you determine whether 263 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: you're gonna be aggressive or slow play a bowl? Um? 264 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: When you first go in you know, we've heard a 265 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: bugle or you know, how do you break down the 266 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: situation and decide, you know what your first play is 267 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: going to be? Um, There's a couple of different things. UM. 268 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: First off, I like to call to the disposition of 269 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: the bowl. So if his answer to my calls is 270 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: super low key and maybe even that money not real 271 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: interested type of bugle, UM, I'm going to know right 272 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: away it's like, well, we can't really get aggressive with 273 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: this bull, right off the bat. You know, I'm not 274 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: gonna hit him immediately, close the distance and hit him 275 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: with a big challenge bagle, because you know that could 276 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: possibly push him away. He might be like, hey man, 277 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: what I'm just saying high over here? I don't want 278 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: to fight anybody, so I want to kind of slow 279 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: play that bowl and just keep contact. You know, he'll 280 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: be agle. I'll wait awhile, then I'll be agle wait 281 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: a while he'll answer. You know. A lot of times 282 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: you know this is you know, it seems weird, but 283 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: you can literally from the time I take my stop watch. 284 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: So whenever I call on a bowl, I'm trying to 285 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: slow play. When I call, I'll hit I stopped watch 286 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: button go, and then I'll let it run. And then 287 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: whenever he answers again, I'll hit stop. And then I'll 288 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: look at the time, like, maybe he's only answering every 289 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: three minutes. Maybe it's every five minutes um, which seems 290 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: like an eternity when you're trying to call a bull 291 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: in so I don't try to push that envelope too much. 292 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: So it's like, Okay, well he's only answering every five 293 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: minutes or every three minutes I'm gonna try to keep 294 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: that cadence. So I'll wait that distance, that that length 295 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: of time before I call again, and I won't try 296 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: to escalate. I'll let him escalate, and whenever you're when 297 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: we're slow plan, I'll let him escalate and it may 298 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: take an hour. But but why why would I do that? 299 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't I just close the gap? Why wouldn't I 300 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: just get tight, you know, move up, located him, figure 301 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: out where he is on the mountain, make my notes 302 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: on on X, make a make a make a way 303 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: point on on X, and they just go right to him. Um. 304 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's terrain. Maybe maybe it's just a nasty, nasty canyon. 305 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: Maybe it's the time of day. Maybe it's I'm running 306 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: low on water and if I go across there that 307 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: that canyon, I'm gonna have to drink out of the 308 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: creek and I'm gonna preate g rria um. And if 309 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: I don't kill that bulb, then they have a rough 310 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: week ahead of me. Um. So there's a lot of 311 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: little little things that kind of come into play. So 312 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: I've done it. Whenever the terrain has been something that 313 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: I don't want to navigate, and I can't navigate quickly 314 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: or without you know, um sacrificing something. So I'll slow 315 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: play it and I'll just kind of keep pecking at him, 316 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: pecking at him. You know, I've done this a few times, 317 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: and you know, it may take an hour, maybe even two, 318 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: you know, pecking at him across that canyon. But after 319 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: an hour or two, I've had it to where all 320 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: of a sudden, their bugle changes. It just snaps, and 321 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: it's like instead of that money bugle, it's a more aggressive, 322 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: full bugle. And when he does that, I know I 323 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: got him right. It's like, Okay, now he's irritated, so 324 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: he's escalated. Now I'm going to escalate. So then I escalated, 325 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: and usually it takes off pretty fast after that. He'll, 326 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: you know, next time you hear him, he might be 327 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: down in the bottom of the creek. Next time you 328 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: hear him he's up on my side of the of 329 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: the canyon or draw and it's like, okay, boy, I 330 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: better get ready here. And so I've been calling at 331 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: him for an hour from this one spot, so it's 332 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: time to move. I know he's coming up the hill. 333 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: Now I need to move forward, change my position because 334 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: he thinks I'm up here. Now, I'm gonna a tippy 335 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: toe down the hill, you know, fifty yards or so 336 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: and in a straight line towards where that bull is coming. 337 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: But then I'll get off that straight line a little bit, 338 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: you know, fifteen yards that way. I'm not directly in 339 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: his path that way as he comes up, and he's 340 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: probably gonna hang up around fifty sixty yards to to 341 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 1: kind of get up their assess and look to see 342 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: where I'm at or listen again. Then I'll be in 343 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: position to take that shot. So, um, that's that's for 344 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: a that's for a solo tactic. Um. But let's say 345 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 1: that bull is just answer and he sounds like you know, 346 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: that was a slow place scenario. Let's say that bulls 347 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: answering really well, he sounds pretty aggressive. Um, he's answering quickly. 348 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: He's bugled four times in about three minutes. Um, I 349 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: know I need to go. I need It's time to 350 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: get aggressive. So I stopped calling. It's time to close 351 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: the gap. Hike over there again. I make my mark 352 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: on on X. Okay, there's a little glade over there 353 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: and a big rock out cropping and then there's a 354 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: thick timber patch. Sounds like he's in that timber patch. 355 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: I make a way point on there and then I 356 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: start going. It's so invaluable, and some of that really steep, 357 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: nasty country, especially if there's a lot of timber. Sometimes 358 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 1: you think, I think I'm getting close, and now you've 359 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: got five yards to go still, So then I push 360 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: over there and get as close as I can without 361 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: spooking him off, which is around a hundred hundred and 362 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: fifty yards away from where I think that bowl is. Yeah, 363 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: that's that's a great answer, and I'll add to it. 364 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: I always just default to being aggressive unless you know 365 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: they're you know, the the one chance where that or 366 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: the one instance where the bowl. You know, he doesn't 367 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: really answer you. He just answers on his own and 368 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: kind of in his own world. You know, we'll maybe 369 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: slow play. But um I always default too aggressive unless 370 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: there's really good reason to do it another way. Um So, 371 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: once again, if you have questions of your own you 372 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: want to submit here to me and my guests, please 373 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 1: email us at ct D at Phelps game calls dot com. Now, 374 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: moving into my discussion with Dirk, you know I've got 375 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: to help with him a couple of times. UM learned 376 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: a lot from when we hunt a lot of the 377 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: you know, similar ways, the similar tactics. But we're gonna 378 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: kind of dive in a little bit to to the 379 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: way dirt calls, kind of the scenarios, you know that 380 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: that that we like to get ourselves into and go 381 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: from there. So before we get into that, what specific 382 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: calls do you make the most wild hunting? UM? You know, 383 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 1: this is kind of my own question to you. I've 384 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: got my own little list, but kind of curious, like 385 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: you know, you may say I use them all, but 386 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: I guess stop or stop start at the call you 387 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: maybe make the most, and then kind of go down 388 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: the list as far as like what you're gonna use 389 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: the most in a season. I probably bugle the most 390 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: out of all the calls in my vocabulary, if you will, UM. 391 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: And then cal calls, you know, And I don't get 392 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: super fancy with cal calls, you know. I know there's 393 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: a lot of information or a lot of a lot 394 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: of different takes on what kind of cal calls to make, 395 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: But I don't get super fancy. I do calf calls, 396 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: cow calls. I do bagles. Again A lot of times 397 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: I try to mimic or call to that bull's disposition. 398 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: So if he has kind of a wimpy sounding voice, 399 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: I try to give him a wimpy sound voice. Um, 400 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: if he's got a big jacked up bugle, I try 401 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: to give him big jacked up bagles. When you say bogle, 402 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: are you willing? You're not necessarily saying I'm only gonna 403 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: send location bagles until the answers. Like you, when you 404 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: say beagles, it's like whatever, everything and anything's on the table. 405 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: You know, everything from you know, high high pitch location beagles, 406 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: the full blown challenge beagles with grunts and chuckles to 407 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: you lit ball beagles. You're just basically going through and 408 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: try and everything out until you can get a response. Yeah. 409 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: So if I'm just locating, then I'll start out with 410 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 1: that like nice high pitch quintessential beautiful uh three note 411 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: location bugle, you know, the real long, drawn out one. 412 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 1: That's where I start um with bugles. Before I even bugle, 413 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: I'll probably give a few light cal calls and then 414 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 1: i'll give a little bit louder cow calls, and if 415 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: I don't hear anything to that, then I'll rip a 416 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: big long location bugle, and then I wait, you know, 417 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 1: to three minutes. If I haven't heard anything, calcol a 418 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: couple of times more, and then I'll do a full 419 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 1: bugle where you start at the bottom the bottom end 420 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: of the of the notes, go all the way to 421 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: the top back down, and then I'll add in a 422 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: few chuckles or grunts at the end. Um, and then 423 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: I wait again, give a couple more cow calls, you know, 424 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,719 Speaker 1: after about four or five minutes, a couple more cal calls, 425 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: you know, if you don't hear anything, then then it's 426 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: time to pull out the big guns, right Um. That's 427 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: when I do a lip ball. That's where you buzz 428 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: your lips and you you use your use your lips 429 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: buzzing to add that real gravelly type tone to the bugle. Um, 430 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: and then I give some very aggressive grunts at the end. 431 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: And that way, I've got something that appeals to about 432 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: any bowl there's Over the years, I've had bowls that 433 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: like to bugle at a certain kind of bugle, whether 434 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: it's just a long high note with no chuckles or grunts, 435 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: or if they'll only bugle let me if I chuckle 436 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 1: or ground or you've done everything, but until you give 437 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: them one of those big, nasty lip ball type bugles. 438 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: Then they don't answer. But when they hear that, they're like, oh, 439 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: something's going on, must be a cow cow and heat 440 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: up there. I'm gonna go ahead and answer, and then 441 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: now we've got a game to play. Yeah, specific example, 442 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: running back to shoot, I'm gonna date myself at you know, 443 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: back two thousand and eleven. I think, um, similar things 444 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: like we're the sign on the ground showing up. We 445 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: know they're oak in the area, And I think we 446 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: do a bad job maybe as educators when we talk 447 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: about these location bagles all the time. But in my opinion, 448 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: the location beagles just whatever the heck, whatever bugle you 449 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 1: need to make to get that you know bull to 450 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: give up his location. Um. But back then I used 451 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: to go through and you know, location bugle had to 452 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: be your your pretty three you know three, no high 453 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: high tone bugle, you know, no no depth to it, 454 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: no gravelly you know, growls, no grunts. And I was 455 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: getting frustrated because, you know, to these bulls were answering, 456 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: and and then I pulled out what I considered my 457 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,479 Speaker 1: challenge bagle you know gravelly a lot of growl into it, 458 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: you know, deep grunts and chuckles and instantly after from 459 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: the same position, probably trying for a half hour to 460 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: get something to locate with multiple location bugles. Um, that 461 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,479 Speaker 1: challenge beeogle got him to pop off. So that's one 462 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: thing like nowadays, I don't hesitate to throw everything out there. 463 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 1: You know, I'll do the pretty high note beagles. I've 464 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: actually had a lot of success lately with you kind 465 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: of mentioned your lacks of daisical money bagles, Like, I'll 466 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: just bagle to what I consider like a mid range 467 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: tone and just kind of that it's a real hollow 468 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: sounding bogle and and sometimes they're more apt to to 469 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: um answer answer that bogle versus a challenge. UM. You know, 470 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: some of the places we've been hunting, I seem to 471 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: be hearing more bark screams and stuff. So we've been 472 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: using the entire gamut to to get those bulls to 473 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: give up their location versus sticking with the the you know, 474 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 1: a typical location bogle that isn't necessarily always going to 475 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: do the trick. Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm sure there's 476 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 1: a lot of fisherman in the audience. And if you 477 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,719 Speaker 1: go up to the stream and you throw in your maps. 478 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: Let's say you're lure fishing. You're not, You're not a 479 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 1: fly fisherman, or maybe you are a fly fisherman. You 480 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: throw on one one type of fly or one type 481 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: of lure. You toss it in there, and you fish 482 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: that hole for thirty minutes and not and not get 483 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: a bite. You can literally change lures or change flies 484 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: and have on the next cast, have a fish on. 485 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: And I feel it's the same way with Elk bugles. 486 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: You know, it's you never know what kind of owns 487 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: they're gonna bite on. You know, maybe that that money 488 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: bugle that you refer to, and I know in New 489 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: Mexico you you played that a lot and you got 490 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: really good responses from it. You know, maybe that reminds 491 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: that bowl of some other joker that he messed around 492 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: with before. I was like, hey, I don't like that guy, 493 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: and then so he answers um. I don't know what's 494 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: inside of Elk's mind, but I always feel like sometimes 495 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: they're a lot like us in in in different ways. 496 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 1: So yeah, and you know, nobody send me hate mail 497 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: or anything, but you relate it back to you know, 498 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: turkeys and shot gobbling, and you know, I know it's 499 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: not the same thing, but it's like I'm willing to 500 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: do anything just to get that dang thing to give 501 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: up its location before I dropped, you know, two thousand 502 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: feet into a canyon, you know, or whatever it may be. 503 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: We're just trying to get that thing to answer give 504 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: up its locations so then we can start to put 505 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 1: all the pieces together and go set up. Um, so 506 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: we we've got a bowl located. Um, you're gonna go 507 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: get set up. I know we're both known, you know 508 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: for ruining elk hunting and biggling a way too much 509 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 1: and all the stuff that that we do that screws 510 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: up elk and educates him. But you're ready to call 511 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 1: your set up. Let's say you're a hundred yards away 512 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: from the elk. Are you going to include a caw 513 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: call initially? Or you're gonna biggle at him? And then 514 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: how do you play it from there? Do you want 515 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: a cow to be involved? You? Um, you know, let's 516 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: say you've only got one bagle, so you don't really 517 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: got a good good idea on his temperament, but you're close. Um, well, 518 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: I always kind of go back and forth whether I 519 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,959 Speaker 1: want a cow to be painted into the situation or not. 520 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: So I'm curious to you know here, Um, if you're 521 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: gonna open up with any cal calls early on in 522 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: the conversation. I've done a lot of experimentation over the years, 523 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: and that's every elk I I called to It's it's 524 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 1: basically an experiment. I'm experimenting with what he wants to hear, 525 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 1: or what he's going to respond to or how he's 526 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: gonna respond to it. So if earlier he the bowl 527 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: has answered two cal calls, you know, when we're during 528 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: the location process, if he's answered to cal calls, it 529 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: tells me he's definitely interested in hearing, you know, hearing 530 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: from a cow or interested in cows. But if you 531 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: know before I took in after him, if you know, 532 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: I waiting, you know, for my three or four good 533 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: located for him to answer three or four times before 534 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: I move in to get set up. Um, if he 535 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: hasn't answered caw calls at all, I know they it's 536 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: probably not gonna be in my best interest to make 537 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 1: cal calls when I get close. UM. A lot of times, 538 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: like early season, you know, I've had um when bulls 539 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: are not heard, it up they're still kind of singled 540 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,719 Speaker 1: out all across the hillsides there. They'll they'll have their 541 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: little hidy holes um most most of the time in 542 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: those scenarios, those bulls won't answer my cow call, but 543 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: they will abugle so they know. I think they know 544 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: that it's way too early for a cow to be 545 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: and heat. I haven't smelled that smell yet, so if 546 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: I get close, I'm gonna bugle at him because I 547 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: want him to feel like I'm gonna encroach in his 548 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: little spot. I want to feel a little bit territory. 549 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: I'll like, hey, man, get get out of here, this 550 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: is my spot. I want to try to appeal to 551 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: that um. But if he's answered to Calcol's, even if 552 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: it's early, then I will probably open up the show 553 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 1: with a couple of cal calls just to test the waters. 554 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: And if there's no response from a couple of cal calls, 555 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: then I'll progress to a bugle um. But keeping in 556 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: mind what kind of bugles he was biting on before, Like, 557 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: if he was he liked He's Chuckley went be bugle 558 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: with a bunch of chuckles, then that's probably what I'm 559 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: going to start the show with. Once I get close. 560 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna try to knock your socks off with 561 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: a big blaster if you will. Yeah. Um. And one 562 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: thing that I I think we need to point out 563 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: is what we're doing or what the way that nature 564 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: works if we're not involved. Uh, if you go out 565 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: and just cal call, I wouldn't be surprised when trying 566 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: to call an elk and if you response maybe every 567 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: time to that cal call. But we need to know 568 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: whether that's necessarily a herd bowler or so lightbul because 569 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: you may be able to call that satellite bowl into 570 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: your location, but if that is a herd bowl that 571 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: you're trying to calcul too, he's basically just saying, hey, 572 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: I'm over here, but he's not going to leave his 573 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: cows to come find some new random cow that just 574 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: showed up, at least not the majority of the time. 575 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: Not bringing up a bunch of you know issues or 576 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: you know some of the some of the discussions that 577 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: we you know, all disagree on, but we get a 578 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: lot of Hey, you know those that biglands all bs. 579 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: You know, I've always just cal call and they come 580 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: running right in. But that's great in a certain situation. 581 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: But was that a satellite bowl, was that a herd bowl. 582 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: We're all out there trying to call different things in 583 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: and so I want to I wanted to point that 584 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: out that when you're using just cal calls, you've now 585 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: just really you know, you've just kind of changed the 586 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: way that that that we're trying to get this to work. 587 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: We're trying to call a bowl into our location. But 588 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: the way it works out in nature is if you 589 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: do calcol, that bowl will respon and then he expects 590 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,959 Speaker 1: you to walk up to him, right, not necessarily call 591 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: him to your location. So I think being a you know, 592 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: a thinking elk color is always going to be to 593 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: your benefit. That you're not just gonna be abable to 594 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: set up on any any given bowl. Um, it really 595 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: depends on who and what that bull is and how 596 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: effective you know, just straight calcolls are gonna be. Yeah, yeah, 597 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: I agree with that, and just knowing the herd dynamics 598 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: in the area you're hunting. Um, there's New Mexico. For instance, 599 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: last year we saw like hardly any cows, right, there 600 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: was virtually no cows on the landscape. Um, we heard 601 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: more bugles than we saw cows, for sure, Like different bulls. 602 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: So in theory, you would think, man, calcols are gonna 603 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: work like a magical flute here. But I didn't really 604 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: have that happen for me. And a lot of the 605 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: bulls didn't care at all if I blew a cal call. 606 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: They weren't that interested. They were all about a bugle um. 607 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: So you just have to be ready. Don't get stuck 608 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: with a predisposition idea. I guess in your head like, oh, 609 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: you know, people say this or people say that, just 610 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: you know, experiment whether it play with it, under trying 611 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: to understand your elk that you're calling to um. And 612 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: then one other thing to think about Cows A lot 613 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: of times they don't. They're like women, right, they don't 614 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: want any competition. You know. You you you have a 615 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: group of wives out out having cocktails somewhere and uh, 616 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: and a couple of husbands stand there. And then if 617 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: if some new hot little thing walks in, immediately they're 618 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: on edge right there, like, hey, who's that? We get 619 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: her out of here, come on, let's go. I think 620 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: it's time to right. I think cows are a lot 621 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: like that. They don't like they have their little clique. 622 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: They knew they know who's who. They don't want any 623 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: new interlopers in. They're trying to steal their man. That's 624 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: dangerous territory, comparing your wife and our groups of friends 625 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: to a group of cows. But hopefully they won't they 626 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: won't listen to this one. I know my wife, I 627 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: think she's winning your shot here in the house. So 628 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: I'm I'm hoping I'm not a dead man. And again, 629 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: so my next question for you, um, you know, I 630 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: would always prefer to see they all that we're gonna 631 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: go to try to call in like I want to know, 632 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: you know, even you know, people can talk about horn sized, 633 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: body size, maturity, you know, dominance is mainly what I'm 634 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: looking for. But I want to know how dominant that 635 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: herd bull is, how many cows he has, you know, 636 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: or their satellite bowls hanging around like anything that we 637 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: can get out of visually looking at these elks to 638 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: our advantage. But one situation I find myself in year 639 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: after year is you're walking along, maybe above a patch 640 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: of timber or in a canyon, and you locate a bowl. 641 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: We don't get all of those cues that we got 642 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: when we were able to see him across the canyon, right, 643 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: We now have no idea if a two and a 644 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,959 Speaker 1: half year old satellite bowl answered us. We don't have 645 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: a night. You know, we don't know if it's a 646 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: five and a half year old satellite, but we don't 647 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: know if it's a herd bowl with a bunch of 648 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: satelights around it. All we know, I mean to some effect, 649 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: I should take that back. A lot of times you 650 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: can get a little bit from his bugle, but the 651 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: majority of time you go in a little bit blind, right, 652 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: because you know, we've called in some great bowls that 653 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: sound wimpy, and we've had some wimpy bowls, you know, 654 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: horn and body wise that have sounded like monsters. So 655 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: when you get that bigle, like what are your assumptions? 656 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: Is there a safe play? Do you go with like 657 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: a default aggressive play? Like you know, what are your 658 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: assumptions when you hear that bigle? And then how are 659 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: you going to approach? Well, my my first thought that 660 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: crosses my head soon as I hear bagles like okay, 661 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: what's the wind doing? So assess the wind that I 662 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: then I assessed the topography. What what's it gonna take 663 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: for me to get close? To that elk and then 664 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: as I as I'm thinking all this in my head, 665 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,240 Speaker 1: then I'm trying to like focus where I've heard him, 666 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: and then I'm going to try to locate again. But 667 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: I don't. I guess it's maybe like the way he's answered, 668 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: the tone, you know, that the way he the Tony's 669 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: answered in, rather than how it sounds. Maybe he's a squeaker, 670 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: but man, he sounds like a really mad squeaker, or 671 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: or he's a big, gravelly, gravelly thing that it doesn't 672 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: have any high pitch at all of his voice. Typically, 673 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna envision mature age class bowl with a very 674 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 1: very you know, broken up, worn out bugle. Right, I'm 675 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: gonna picture that. But um, I'm just gonna kind of back, 676 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: you know, go default back to that call of that 677 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: disposition of the bowl, because I've I've had some bowls 678 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: that sounded wimpy when you first start calling to him 679 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: to flip the switch, and then now they sound Godzilla, right, 680 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: So um, it's like almost like they play possum a 681 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,399 Speaker 1: little bit sometimes. So um, I just kind of try 682 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 1: to assess how they sound. I don't want to try 683 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,439 Speaker 1: to sound too much bigger and I try to play 684 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: it by that, but typically like it's a it's an 685 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: aggressive move though. Once I once I've got them pinpointed, 686 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: we're gonna get aggressive. We're gonna get close. We're not 687 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: gonna get now when I say aggressive, we're not gonna say, um, reckless. 688 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 1: You know, we're not gonna throw caution to the wind 689 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: and say, oh, we'll get over there at all costs. 690 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 1: You know, the wind be damned. You know, we're gonna 691 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: make sure we follow the wind and make sure that 692 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 1: we don't make any mistakes as far as that goes, 693 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,439 Speaker 1: and we want to get close as we can quick 694 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: as we can. Um closing that gap on one thing. 695 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: You know, they're all different. Some bolls. You you follow 696 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: them from from first light till middle of the day 697 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: before you ever even get close to them, you know, 698 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: just because the terrain features or whatever it may be, 699 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 1: just the way they're herds moving, you know those New 700 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: Mexico bowls. Shoot those things and move four miles in 701 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: the morning and you're just on their heels the whole time, 702 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: just trying to keep up. Whereas some of the some 703 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: of the Pacific Northwest stuff where it's big, heavy timber 704 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: and stuff. They're not moving quite as far, but you 705 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: may have to spend half the day climbing across the 706 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,919 Speaker 1: canyon to them, or maybe they're on your side and 707 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: you're you can move up quickly. Just every scenario is 708 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: so different. But you know, I'm just gonna assess what 709 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: they sound like and then try to tailor my calling 710 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: to how they sound. Yeah, and one thing, you know, 711 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: on that situation where you've located a bowl through audible, 712 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,240 Speaker 1: you know you be a gole or you didn't bagle, 713 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,479 Speaker 1: but you hear them bugle. One thing that I really 714 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: like to do before we we put our plan together 715 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: is here multiple bugles? Right? I want to just and 716 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: and I'm not good at it because I'm the most 717 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: impatient hunter ever, but I found you know, is is 718 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: time goes on. Being able to hear multiple bugles from 719 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: that bowl is giving us some sort of indication, like 720 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: is the moving in a direction? Is he's sitting still? 721 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: Do we need to change where we thought we were 722 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: going to go? Versus if we, you know, make an 723 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: aggressive player, we take off. You know, we don't get 724 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 1: to hear him bagle again. Uh did we just miss 725 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: him by fifteen minutes? Did we just miss him by 726 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: you know, a quarter mile of where we needed to 727 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: be when we got down there, because he's now off 728 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: in a distance. So a lot of times ideally we 729 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,879 Speaker 1: don't poke at him too much, but we really want 730 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: to hear the additional bugle from a long ways away 731 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: because maybe, you know, especially if we located and gave 732 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: up our position and he bagles, he may be coming already, 733 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: or we located and he answers, he may be going away, 734 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,879 Speaker 1: and so you know, without being able to see what's 735 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: going on, Um, I really like to know what his 736 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,240 Speaker 1: plan is, um, you know, and to get a second 737 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: or a third or fourth vegle whatever it may be, 738 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: gives us at least some additional information versus you know, 739 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: one bagle. It's kind of unfortunate because all we really 740 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: know is that we've got an elk down there, you 741 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,439 Speaker 1: know of you know, or a bowl down there. Really, um, 742 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: we we don't know what's going on, um, you know, 743 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: we can't make any indicator you know, or guess is 744 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: whether he's got cows, you know, any of that. So 745 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: multiple vehicles is always great. And then similar to you, um, 746 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: the very first thing I do and I think, my 747 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: my Grandpa would be pissed that that this is the 748 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: first thing I do. You know, but you pull out 749 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: your you know, your fancy smartphone out of your pocket 750 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 1: as soon as you hear a bowl people, rather than 751 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: you know, like figure an idea out, You're you're instantly 752 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,839 Speaker 1: looking at topo, like if that bull is there? Like, 753 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: what are my you know, routes to get there? Similar 754 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: to you, what's the wind doing? Um? You know, where 755 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: would you potentially go from here? Um? So yeah, I 756 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: want to hear multiple vehicles. I'm gonna get out, you know, 757 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,240 Speaker 1: some mapping software figure out how I'm gonna get there. Um, 758 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: and then you know, typically based on the wind and 759 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: time of day, plan our approach. Yeah, I agree. I 760 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,239 Speaker 1: couldn't agree more. Um. Back in the day before we 761 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: had GPS, is that we carried does and and especially 762 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 1: in areas you never hunted before, you'd hear a bowl 763 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 1: a few times over there, and you'd get over there 764 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 1: and you'll be like, well, I can't turn him up. 765 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: He's he I guess he got out of the mood 766 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 1: or just quit bugling. But um, with these smartphones now 767 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,759 Speaker 1: and are mapping, you can look at topography and you're 768 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,959 Speaker 1: like oh, well, there's a saddle right there. He walked 769 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: right over that, through that saddle, all bat you walk 770 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: over there, Bam, he's bugle and his head off. You 771 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,839 Speaker 1: just couldn't hear him. Um Man. I wish I had 772 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,439 Speaker 1: a lot of those back from back in the early days. 773 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: I think, I think I really really messed up by like, 774 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: well here, I guess we'll go somewhere else, dang it. Yeah. 775 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: And and one thing that I've drawn on from a 776 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 1: lot of experience and and extreme frustration. So these specific 777 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: examples like or or like etched into my mind is elk. 778 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: For one reason another, they're very good at sensing pressure 779 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 1: and being quiet when needed. So I can remember, you know, 780 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: multiple times where we've got a bowl going pretty good, 781 00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,360 Speaker 1: but maybe it's a half mile a mile away, and 782 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: we've got a pretty good, you know, trek to get there, 783 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,280 Speaker 1: you know, down across the canyon, up through some brush 784 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: whatever it may be. We go over the right to 785 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,240 Speaker 1: where we thought the bowl was. We do our calling, 786 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 1: we try to locate him, we try to get the 787 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,399 Speaker 1: wind right and nothing, and then you will come back 788 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: down the mountain, get back to where you located him from. 789 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: And for no other good reason. He's in the same 790 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 1: damn spot, and you're like, we're just there. You know, 791 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: they they will, you know, I think they do a 792 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,479 Speaker 1: lot of listening multiple times we've climbed the mountain, climb 793 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: back down the mountain, or vice versa, and get back 794 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: to that original point. And I just feel, you know, 795 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: you've got to let the elk win occasionally, right, we're 796 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: not gonnnna win them all. And in these certain times 797 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 1: they're just very very smart and good at like, well, 798 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: this bull's got too close. I really don't want to 799 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 1: give up my position now. I'm willing to give my 800 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: position up from a mile away or a half mile away. Uh, 801 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: you know some of those uh you know, we're just 802 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 1: that's just what you're dealing with as an educated elk. 803 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,240 Speaker 1: And they don't get old from you know, doing everything 804 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: wrong all the time. Yeah. And there's been often times 805 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: where I've been calling to a bowl a lot and 806 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 1: he's and calling back, and then for whatever reason, he 807 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,399 Speaker 1: just clams up, and you're like, huh, they just went 808 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 1: from hundred miles an hour to like zero just within 809 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: a couple of minutes, and you're like, what happened? You know, 810 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,839 Speaker 1: everything looks good, the wind is good. He can't see us. 811 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: Why is why did he be quiet? Um? And rather 812 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 1: than like, well he must have figured us out and 813 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: like packing up camp and leaving a lot of times 814 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:28,440 Speaker 1: the last few years, I've been just kind of just 815 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: sitting down, like, hey, let's just sit down here and 816 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: take a break. Let's have some snacks, have some water, 817 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,399 Speaker 1: kick our feet back, catch your breath, and sit down 818 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: for maybe an hour. And especially if the bulls are 819 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: you know, he's you know, a couple hundred yards away. 820 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 1: You know, we've gotten pretty close to him. A lot 821 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 1: of times, you getting quiet and doing the same thing 822 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: to him, um makes him uncomfortable and they start calling again. 823 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,240 Speaker 1: They're like, okay, where'd that ball go? Is he sneaking 824 00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:00,400 Speaker 1: in on me or what? So sometimes if you just 825 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: you know, play possum a little bit and just be quiet. 826 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: Let's say you didn't move move over there where that bowl. 827 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: You've been hearing him and you can't get him go 828 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: do a bunch of calling, and then you shut up 829 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 1: and sit there for an hour. He may he may 830 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: start talking. He may come walking in on you with 831 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: no with no bugling at all. I've had that happen 832 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: to where you hear a couple of twigs snap and 833 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: you're like, what's that? And then here comes this bowl 834 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: walking in. Yeah, that's that's a great tip. And and 835 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: you know from from your experience, you know the same 836 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:44,479 Speaker 1: same stuff that that we've had happened. So if Derek, 837 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,959 Speaker 1: if you could leave the listeners with with one golden 838 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 1: nugget that may help him, Um, what would it be? 839 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 1: You know? This year l cutting um, practice practice practice 840 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 1: on your help calls. Right. Of course, you don't have 841 00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: to sound perfect, you know, like the perfect guy, like 842 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,879 Speaker 1: all your favorite guys on on YouTube or whatever. Uh, 843 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,279 Speaker 1: you don't have to sound perfect, but you have to 844 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 1: sound like an elk. Right. Um, If your calls don't 845 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 1: sound like an elk, don't just put them away, you 846 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,480 Speaker 1: don't use them. But if they actually sound like an elk, 847 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 1: add some intensity, add some emotion to them, and uh, 848 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,160 Speaker 1: and then have the confidence to use them. You hear 849 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 1: a bowl, go ahead and rip it back at him 850 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: or cal call to him or whatever. But don't don't 851 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,439 Speaker 1: pigeonhole of yourself with just one type of calling. Don't 852 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: just leand percent on cal calls. I don't think you 853 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: should lean a hundred percent on Mugles. I think it's 854 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: like a very um use a balanced approach, a little 855 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 1: bit of both, whatever the bowl likes. Giving more of 856 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,360 Speaker 1: those and you'll have success. A great tip. Um, I 857 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,880 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. So we're gonna roll this into a 858 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,320 Speaker 1: part two and in part two we're going to cover 859 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,839 Speaker 1: setting up on ELK. So there's a lot we talk 860 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 1: about calling on here all the time. We're gonna talk 861 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,319 Speaker 1: about this specific setup. You know, whether you're gonna call 862 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: a bowl downhill or up hill, what's your preference, Gonna 863 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,960 Speaker 1: talk about strategies such as calling in you know, a 864 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,719 Speaker 1: young satellite bowl versus a mature satellite bowl versus a 865 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: herd bowl, and and how some of our tactics are 866 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 1: going to change, and then um, you know, even adapting 867 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 1: during a hunt. We we got a very prescriptive calling method, 868 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,680 Speaker 1: but you know, similar to last year in New Mexico, 869 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 1: we started to get our butt kicked and we had 870 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 1: to adapt a little bit, and um, you know, it 871 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,680 Speaker 1: was one of the more frustrating hunts. So join in 872 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: for part two and we're gonna touch on these next 873 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,320 Speaker 1: subjects in that podcast