1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 2: Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. On 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 2: this show, we end up talking a lot about the 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 2: various ways of politicians, media personalities, and lobbying groups are 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 2: constantly trying to make life a living hell for trans people, 6 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 2: between restricting medical care, access to public spaces, as well 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 2: as banning and literally burning queer art. Basically a lot 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 2: of depressing stuff that's designed to make us trans people 9 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: go mad. We live in a transphobic society. All it 10 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: takes is one bad day for an aspiring comedian to 11 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 2: fall into a vat of estrogenizing chemicals and emerge a 12 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 2: jokrified harlequin. Filmmaker Vera Dru's new movie, a multimedia queer 13 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 2: fever dream, titled The People's Joker, takes this premise and 14 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: depicts what it's like trying to make a living as 15 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: an irony poisoned trans person in a Gotham city where 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: comedy has been made illegal. This isn't just an unauthorized 17 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 2: transgender parody of DC comics, though it is that as well. 18 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: The film is a wholly unique collaboration of dozens of 19 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 2: queer artists utilizing fair use to tell a Tran's coming 20 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 2: of age story with the gothic, queer coded imagery of Batman. 21 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 2: If you know anything about my tastes, you probably know 22 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 2: that this is incredibly up my alley. So, in a 23 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: departure from this show's usual doom and gloom, I'm putting 24 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: together a few episodes on what it means to be 25 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 2: a queer artist in today's political climate. More episodes will 26 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 2: come out next week, but I wanted to get this 27 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 2: one out right now, in time for listeners to catch 28 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: the theatrical run of The People's Joker, hopefully in a 29 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: theater near you right now or in the near future. 30 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 2: Last week, I was lucky enough to chat with the 31 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 2: clown Princess of Crime herself, Vera Drew, about the making 32 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: of The People's Joker. 33 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 3: My name is Via Drew. I'm the writer, director, and 34 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 3: I also star in The People's Joker. I also did 35 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 3: some of the visual effects too. You can get tickets 36 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,119 Speaker 3: online at the People's Joker dot com. 37 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 2: I would like to just start with the origin of 38 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 2: the People's Joker project. Why is there a transgender Joker 39 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 2: and why does that make so much sense? 40 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 3: I'm glad you feel like it makes sense. I mean 41 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 3: it kind of it kind of really started just because 42 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 3: Todd Phillips was like in the news, uh, talking about 43 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 3: like woke culture and how like it was too hard 44 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 3: to make comedy now and stuff, which is really funny 45 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 3: coming from a director who's made millions and millions of 46 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 3: dollars making comedy and like also like made Joker like 47 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 3: the year prior, and that is a comedy. Like it's 48 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 3: a dark comedy, but it's totally a comedy and it 49 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 3: made a billion dollars. But yeah, he was complaining about 50 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 3: woke culture, as is his right. But and my co writer, 51 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 3: the person who ended up becoming my co writer, bri LeRose, 52 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 3: actually just kind of jokingly commissioned me on Twitter to 53 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 3: re edit Todd phillips Joker, and actually venmowed me twelve dollars, 54 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 3: And yeah, I started doing it. Like in Earnest, I 55 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 3: started like actually re editing the movie. And I had 56 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,839 Speaker 3: worked at Absolutely Productions for years as an editor and 57 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 3: had kind of come up as an alternative comedy editor. 58 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 3: So you know, at that point it was probably just 59 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 3: going to be like a lot of bart sound effects 60 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 3: and woosh noises and slips and slide whistles. But as 61 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 3: I was working on it and kind of just making 62 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 3: this like big piece of bound footage video art, like 63 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 3: a narrative kind of just like fell into place and 64 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 3: I it kind of just came in an instant, and 65 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 3: I was just like, oh, okay, I think, think I 66 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 3: actually want to make like a coming of age film, 67 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 3: but I want to make like a parody of the 68 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 3: Joker like in that process and kind of just like 69 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 3: tell like a really earnest and super personal autobiographical story 70 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 3: about my life and growing up in the Midwest and 71 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 3: coming out is trans and comedy and you know, my 72 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 3: relationship with my mom and toxic relationship I was in 73 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 3: and stuff, but kind of process and mythologize all of 74 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 3: that through through Batman characters. So that's kind of the 75 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 3: origin of the movie, I guess. I had also kind 76 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 3: of been kicking around an idea for like a body horror, 77 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 3: like a trans body horror movie before that that was 78 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 3: basically like about a drag queen who was physically addicted 79 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 3: to irony and like couldn't like survive without it, but 80 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 3: it was also like destroying her from the inside out. 81 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 3: The two ideas kind of like merged together into this 82 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 3: sort of I guess. 83 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that definitely comes through. One of my favorite parts 84 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: of this movie is that it gets to talk about 85 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 2: so many intimate aspects of trans experience, like trans misogyny, 86 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 2: the intersection of transphobia and misogyny that gets targeted against 87 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 2: transfems in particular, as well as trans for trans relationships 88 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: or T four T, and lots of other little things. 89 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 2: It's using the visual language of Batman as a shorthand 90 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 2: to contextualize parts of queerness that just don't often appear 91 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 2: in mass media. I showed my co host Mia the 92 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 2: film last week to get her thoughts on the movie 93 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 2: as a piece of queer art, since her and my 94 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 2: own tastes often greatly differ. What did you think of 95 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 2: the transgender clown it rips. 96 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 4: One of the things that was the most interesting to 97 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 4: me about it is like, so I'd read some reviews 98 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 4: of it, and because it's, you know, because it's sort 99 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 4: of the submedia works, most of the reviews are by 100 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 4: those people, and it's really fun to see a movie 101 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 4: where you're reading it and you you look at this 102 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 4: and you're going, oh, these people didn't get it. They 103 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 4: much they do not know about T boy swag they 104 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 4: do not know about. 105 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 2: Like all of this stuff that's happening in. 106 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 4: This And yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing 107 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 4: about it that's really interesting, because you know, transcoming of 108 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 4: age story is like one of the few kind of 109 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 4: stories you're sort of allowed to tell if you're trans, 110 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 4: less so in film more so like in writing, your. 111 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 2: Allowed to do this pecifically. Yeah. 112 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's really interesting the way this movie starts 113 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 4: with a you know, for the first maybe ten minutes, 114 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 4: it's okay, this is like a pretty standard coming of 115 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 4: age story, and then it hits the real shit in 116 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 4: a way that doesn't ever show up on this stuff. 117 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 2: Like I first told this movie a year ago, and 118 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 2: I was shocked at the depiction of like T for 119 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 2: tea relationships which you like never you never see, so 120 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: being able to look at like emotional abuse within a 121 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: T for T relationship being depicted this way, You're like, 122 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: oh my god. It's like actually like showing something that 123 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 2: is literally never talked about, like openly, like this is 124 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: something that we like people have experiences of, but it's 125 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: never really like shown or discussed. I found that to 126 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 2: be incredibly resonant and very like tastefully done. 127 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I was just like weeping watching parts 128 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 4: of it. Absolutely, there's a line in there that is, 129 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 4: I have never ever like one of the sort of 130 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 4: most real things that like you as a transwoman experience 131 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 4: is someone who's trans misogyny exempt saying they don't feel 132 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 4: safe around you. 133 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 2: Yep. 134 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 4: That being how they kick you, like how you get 135 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 4: ran out, how you get abused. That the fact that 136 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 4: that's in that's in film, and you can see all 137 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 4: of the people, like you can see sis people like 138 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 4: not getting it, like they just they don't they don't 139 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 4: understand what's going on. And that's really incredibly powerful in 140 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 4: a lot of ways, all while in like Jared Letter 141 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 4: Joker makeup. 142 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, like it's it's amazing. They're like getting into all 143 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: of this like extremely intense stuff. The gas landing scene 144 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 2: was fucking phenomenal. But it all looks like this fucking 145 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 2: like copy pasted comic art spliced in with like speed 146 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 2: Racer and Return from Oz and it is with all 147 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 2: of these like adult swim aesthetics. Because ver Drew has 148 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: been an editor on a lot of like starting with 149 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 2: like Tim and Eric stuff to like Nathan Fielder to 150 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 2: Tim Robinson, very entrenched in this like layered collage, like 151 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: adult swim style, So that's present all throughout the movie. 152 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 2: It's extremely visually unique. It's it's kind of like like 153 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 2: it like an It really is like an Internet meme, 154 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 2: like brought to life and like puppeteered by like an 155 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: uncanny unseen hand. I think it really embraces the aesthetics 156 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 2: of like an ill fitting Halloween Harley Quinn cosplay costume. 157 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 2: It's like taking that and like deeply interrogating what that 158 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 2: visually represents and looks like and why someone would wear 159 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 2: an ill fitting Harley Quinn costume. It deeply understands all 160 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 2: of like the aesthetic sensibilities behind an image like that. 161 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 2: Extremely extremely fun. I think it's worth talking about, at 162 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 2: least in brief, the trajectory of this movie's release because 163 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 2: it is a very comic book. Joker fed story from 164 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 2: the idea of this film to its premiere at a 165 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 2: film festival, to all of the uncertainty and legal chaos 166 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 2: that came along the way. So an earlier cut of 167 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 2: this movie was originally set to premiere at TIFF, the 168 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 2: Toronto International Film Festival back in twenty twenty two, right 169 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 2: before the first showing water Broa sent a vaguely worded 170 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 2: but threatening letter, which resulted in the People's Joker being 171 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 2: pulled from the festival save for one late night screening 172 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: that got rave reviews. With its legal status uncertain, the 173 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 2: movie kind of went into limbo. Here's Vera drew on 174 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: what happened after the first tiff, showing. 175 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 3: I really put all I had into this movie, you know, 176 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 3: like I really I cashed in every favor I had 177 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 3: ever accumulated in Hollywood financially, Like I took out a 178 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 3: huge loan to finish it. And it was just this big, 179 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 3: deeply personal thing that I had made that originally really 180 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 3: was just for me and my friends. Like it was 181 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 3: just kind of a thing that I had just made. 182 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 3: You know, maybe I would have shown it to like 183 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 3: my Patreon or something, but like it was, you know, 184 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 3: after a certain point like it, you know, once we 185 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 3: had that like premiere, it was just like I need 186 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 3: to like I can't just post this to YouTube. I 187 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 3: can't like just dump it somewhere or like shelve it. 188 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 3: And what felt right really was like taking the movie 189 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 3: out just to festivals and kind of doing like a 190 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 3: secret screening tour which is what we did. And that 191 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 3: was really exciting and kind of like a jokerfied way 192 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 3: of sort of getting this movie out there. And I 193 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 3: was just surrounded by other filmmakers in the genre community, 194 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 3: and you know who would see the movie at this 195 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 3: festival and be like, you need to just wait. The 196 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 3: person who's going to help you is gonna come. 197 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 2: So for a while the film was making surprise secret 198 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: screenings at film festivals across the US and Canada, And 199 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 2: now almost two years later, the queer distribution company Altered 200 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 2: Innocence picked up the film and it's now in movie 201 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 2: theaters in nationwide. 202 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 4: The thing that's I think is really interesting about this 203 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 4: is sort of the timing of it, because this originally 204 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 4: comes out in twenty twenty two, right, sure it does, 205 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 4: and then it gets on came out by push back 206 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,479 Speaker 4: into the closet by the corporate. 207 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 2: Ghouls of this discovery pushes the people's choker back into 208 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 2: the classet. Yeah. 209 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 4: But what I think is really interesting about it is 210 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 4: is its position in this sort of arc of queer media. 211 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 3: Right. 212 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 4: I mean, when when I was a kid, there was nothing. 213 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 4: It was like, like the first queer thing I ever 214 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 4: saw in a show was the Cora Sammie kiss at 215 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 4: the end of Legend of Korra, Like there was nothing 216 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 4: and then suddenly it's funny. 217 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 2: I just watched last night, like three of the old 218 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 2: Law and Order SVU trans episodes. Oh god, oh boy, 219 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 2: oh boy, do they have some extremely extremely interesting moments. 220 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: I will leave it up to the viewer's imagination. 221 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, And what's interesting about the Rice You get this 222 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 4: moment that I kind of recognize from you have this 223 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 4: sort of Asian American media too, where like there was 224 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 4: this you know, it was if you go back and 225 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 4: watch something from two thousand and four that has an 226 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 4: Asian person in it, it is it is like like 227 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 4: there are people right now in the US who will 228 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 4: physically attack you for being Asian, and who will say shit, 229 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 4: and who's whose level of verbal racism will be less 230 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 4: than the racism that's just in this movie as a gag. 231 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 2: Sure, and you know, and so you get and eventually. 232 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 4: Like throughout the twenty tens, we sort of got like, oh, 233 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 4: there's like Asian Americans and movies now, And that was 234 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 4: kind of happening with with with sort of you know 235 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 4: and prickoling cartoons, things like Owl House, that was kind 236 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 4: of happening in in media with queer people. And then 237 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 4: there was the sort of the twenty twenties backlash, and 238 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 4: that's like you can you can you know it's it's 239 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 4: in the same way the Huntress Thompson has this line 240 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 4: about like you can see exactly where the standing in Vegas. 241 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 4: You can see the line where the sixties receded, Like 242 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 4: you can see the line where all of the queer 243 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 4: stuff just is like gone. And this forces everyone, you know, 244 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 4: you if you have two options, right, you can fucking 245 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 4: go back into the closet and you can fucking work 246 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 4: on whatever dog shit show that's just going to be 247 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 4: completely SIS set now. Or you can just you can 248 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 4: make the people's choker, just to say you can just 249 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 4: make you just you can just go and do it 250 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 4: and you can make something. And I think there's something 251 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,959 Speaker 4: that's very different than a lot than the sort of 252 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 4: wave that have come before. It is that like this 253 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 4: is pece of trans media that is made by trans 254 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 4: people for trans people, and there's some like trapping stuff 255 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 4: for SIS people to sort of like walk them along 256 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 4: a little tiny bit, but. 257 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 2: Like it uses the language of DC comics to handhold 258 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: other audiences to understand what's going on. 259 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, but but at its core, you know, and like 260 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 4: obviously like yeah, there's you know, mix of plicks like 261 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 4: I'm butchering his name. 262 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: No one knows how to say. That's the whole bit, 263 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 2: is that no one knows how to say it. Yeah, 264 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 2: I mean, like you know, so like there there's like 265 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 2: there's like kind of deep. 266 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 4: Cut like comic stuff in there too, because you know, 267 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 4: this is by people who, like, unlike everyone who makes 268 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 4: these fucking movies these days, people who actually genuinely, like 269 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 4: deeply love the source material that they're pulling from, yes, 270 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 4: and thus are willing to just go off the walls 271 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 4: with it and have like Jason Todd t boy swag, 272 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 4: emotional abuser Joker who is any many such cases like 273 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 4: so much more interesting than any iteration of the Joker 274 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 4: I've seen. 275 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 2: Absolutely well. And it also it also pulls on like 276 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 2: the very long history of the Joker being queer coded. Yeah, 277 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: I mean, like if you go to like Grant Morrison's 278 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 2: Joker extremely queer, the sixties Batman Show is all very queer, 279 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 2: but like the Joker has always been seen as is 280 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 2: kind of this like having this queer deviant element despite 281 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 2: really only having like heterosexual pairings, but even still in 282 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 2: his relation to Batman, it's always been a very queer 283 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: heavy thing, and that's something that DC Comics has definitely 284 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 2: shied away from intentionally and having something that so blatantly 285 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: embraces that well, not just like does it for like 286 00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 2: fun representation, like actually interrogates like queer relationship through that, 287 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 2: through that extremely like troubling power dynamic is really really fascinating. 288 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 4: There is no fucking Cis bad, Like there is no 289 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 4: white CIS dude who has gone through enough shit to 290 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 4: make them cruted to the joker like come odd. It's like, 291 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 4: oh damn, I couldn't get on a comedy show and 292 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 4: I became the joker Like wait wait, wait no. 293 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: No, this is insufficient the joker afi Mia. All it 294 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: takes is one bad day. I you know, I mean 295 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 2: I guess, I guess. I guess that is like do 296 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 2: you want to know how I got these emotional scars. 297 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 4: It's really like like every Cisman is okay enough with 298 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 4: violence that they think that they're one bad day for 299 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 4: just murdering everyone around them, and sometimes they. 300 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 2: Snap and it's like true, you know, but also come 301 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 2: on like you want to. Fucking it's seen shit. We've 302 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: had a very like in cell embrace of the Joker 303 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 2: ever since he Ledger, of course with the Rocking Phoenix movie, 304 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 2: very in cell coded, both in conversation with that, because 305 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 2: this piece was made as a direct reaction to TODM 306 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 2: Phillips's The Joker movie, but this is always it's in 307 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 2: conversation with that, while highlighting the actual like like very 308 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 2: very inherent queerness to this man who dresses up like 309 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 2: a clown to play with another man who dresses up 310 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 2: like a bat I was lucky enough to catch an 311 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 2: earlier cut of the People's Joker at a Canadian film 312 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: festival last year, dressed in one of my many Harley 313 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 2: Quinn costumes. Again, if you know anything about me, you 314 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 2: know I love Batman on Gotham City. I do my 315 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 2: yearly queer Batman returns watch parties where I dress up 316 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 2: like Michelle Fiver's Catwoman. But the social groups I'm often 317 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 2: in can sometimes be a little bit weird about Batman stuff, 318 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,959 Speaker 2: because he's like a fascist or whatever. But I've always 319 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 2: thought that Gotham City is really weird as a concept, 320 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 2: and I loved that someone else appeared to share that 321 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 2: opinion and decided to explore Gotham City as an esthetic 322 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 2: zone to operate in as a queer artist. Here's Vera 323 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 2: Drew talking about the connection between her queerness and Batman. 324 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 3: I really am like a lifelong Batman comic fan, and 325 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 3: I've been working on this movie for four years and 326 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 3: I'm somehow still not sick of Batman, which is crazy 327 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 3: to me. Yeah, I mean, I think like the lore 328 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 3: has just kind of always been there in my life, 329 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 3: and it's always just felt very queer to me. I mean, 330 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 3: I guess mostly in like a subtext way, but you 331 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 3: just think back to like all the iterations, Like I mean, 332 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 3: my entry point into Batman was Joel Schumacher Batman, Like 333 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 3: I saw Batman forever when I was six, and I 334 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 3: it was like, literally one of the first times I 335 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 3: realized I was trans was that moment was just seeing 336 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 3: Nicole Kidman. I wanted to look like her. I wanted 337 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 3: to be perceived how she was being perceived. I wanted 338 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 3: someone to look at me the way Batman looks at her. 339 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 3: And that was all very confusing for a six year old, 340 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 3: you know who up until that point was pretty sure 341 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 3: they were a boy. I grew up in the nineties, 342 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 3: so I didn't really have like my representation was the 343 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 3: Jerry Springer Show and Howard Stern. That's where I saw 344 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 3: trans people, and I think like comics were just this 345 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 3: space where I could. I don't know. It just feels 346 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 3: very queer like and it's it's not just subtext. I 347 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 3: mean there is, there's a lot of subtext obviously in 348 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 3: like the Schumacher Batman's like his his Gotham City just 349 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 3: is a like gay neon nightmare of beauty. We're definitely 350 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 3: like taking that aesthetic kind of in the People's Joker 351 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 3: like that was always kind of my vision for Gotham. 352 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 3: But even the sixties Batman despite how absolutely yeah, yeah, yeah, 353 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 3: you know, it's it's super conservative, but like it's it's 354 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 3: so colorful and like. 355 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 2: It's very gay. It's extremely gay. 356 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 3: It's and it's like, I because somebody actually described it 357 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 3: to me the other day as like you have like 358 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 3: a character like Riddler and like he's just surrounded by 359 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 3: like hot women. Like it's just everybody feels like kind 360 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 3: of like a weird, poly annoying person, you know, which 361 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 3: is me and my friends. 362 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 2: So I feel like Adam West is definitely playing like 363 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 2: a closeted gay man in that show as well, totally 364 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 2: who's like surrounded by much more like flamboyant queers and 365 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 2: he like doesn't know how to deal with it. That's 366 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 2: totally fair. I really appreciated, like, there's so many Batman 367 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 2: Forever jokes in this, Like you even use the Batman 368 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 2: Forever font like constantly throughout the film. There's so many 369 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 2: like little bits. I really appreciate it did. All of 370 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 2: the Alexander Knox jokes throughout the film. I think feel 371 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 2: like that's one of the most underrated characters from the 372 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 2: Tim Burton movies. And then all of like the Grant 373 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 2: Morrison super sanity bits also, I found incredibly funny. When 374 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 2: I was watching it, I felt like a big strong 375 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 2: sense I felt was like, this is what a piece 376 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 2: of art would look like if it was made like 377 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 2: within the DC universe. It feels like something that comes 378 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 2: like from that point and is like somehow like emanated 379 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 2: into our world. 380 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:31,479 Speaker 3: Wow, thank you. 381 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: It was wonderful. There's definitely some like speed racer elements, 382 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 2: a little bit of like David Lynch's Dune, especially like 383 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 2: the mister Mixelplex scenes felt very much like all of 384 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 2: like like the weird Spice visions. It was great seeing 385 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 2: this progress from the cut last year to this one. 386 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 2: It flows a lot. When I was talking with my 387 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 2: co host Mia about the film, we both pointed out 388 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 2: how this movie doesn't just feel like a movie with 389 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 2: gay people in it itself, feels like a piece of 390 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,479 Speaker 2: queer art, Like the art itself has a sense of 391 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 2: inherent queerness. I think there's a lot of reasons for that. 392 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 2: The fact that it's a collaborative project from dozens of 393 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 2: queer artists sending in background pieces, characters, voice acting, music, 394 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 2: set design. It all creates a very like DIY queer 395 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 2: zine kind of feel, but in a moving picture. So 396 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 2: I wanted to talk a little bit more about this 397 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 2: difference between just queer representation and queer art. You kind 398 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 2: of touch on something previously, where like the difference between 399 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 2: queer representation and like art that is that like is queer. 400 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 2: These are like two very different things, and the movie 401 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 2: actually is in conversation with this as well, being like 402 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 2: the difference between hiring a trans person to be on 403 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 2: the SNL cast versus a trans person doing their own 404 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 2: comedy show, right and how those are two very different 405 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 2: things with very different politics. And I think this movie 406 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 2: is a large statement against that assimilation is to drive 407 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 2: that a lot of people to fall back on for 408 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 2: like self preservation reasons, self coping reasons, and like financial reasons. 409 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 2: Sure it is extremely critical of that notion and reifize 410 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 2: like this like diy approach towards queer people making our 411 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 2: own art. 412 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's something I've been thinking about a lot, 413 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 4: because like, you know, like Asian Americans have like we 414 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 4: got there, right like siss and Americans we we we 415 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 4: got our representation, Like what is a representation? It's like, well, 416 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 4: they found a way to make like being East Asian 417 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 4: the thing you can sell to white people by having 418 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 4: it be about food and selling the version of like 419 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 4: a slightly different version of the traditional family. And I 420 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 4: you know, and like and you can you can sort 421 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 4: of ask what good has this done for Asian American people? 422 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 4: And mostly what it's done is that Asian American cinema 423 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 4: there's it's a wasteland, right, like and you know, and 424 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 4: you could you could see like there's a there's a 425 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 4: version of sort of of where the twenty twenties go. 426 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 4: That's different where the assimilation is I've kicks in and 427 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 4: we don't. And this happens to Qunvidia, where it's just 428 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 4: this yeah, nothing, it's just this void of sort of 429 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 4: formless content that gets sold to the sist people. 430 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 2: I mean, and I think you could even look at 431 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 2: that from a lot of like twenty sixteen to twenty 432 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 2: twenty stylings of queer media that does come off as 433 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 2: very similationist. And now I feel like we are entering 434 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 2: this new age of trans cinema where we have a 435 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 2: lot of people either working with more independent production houses 436 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 2: I'm very excited for I saw the TV Glow coming 437 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 2: out next month, but we have a lot of other 438 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 2: independent trans filmmakers starting out quite young getting into filmmaking 439 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 2: also not quite young, like into their thirties, who are 440 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 2: working to actually produce films and media that don't just 441 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 2: get thrown up on YouTube. That producing art that does 442 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,959 Speaker 2: not just become another transgender video essay that floods the site, right, 443 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 2: it's finding other ways to actually engage artistically besides the 444 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 2: very comfortable ways that we've gotten used to you. Whether 445 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 2: that's like you know, what your average trans DJ trans 446 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 2: like electronic music or a trans video essay, which feels 447 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 2: like really the only two ways to make art as 448 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 2: a trans person reliably are making YouTube videos making music, 449 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 2: both of which can be very good. Absolutely, there's of 450 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 2: some fantastic trans musicians. There's a lot of great video 451 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,479 Speaker 2: essays out there, but the artistic landscape is so much 452 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,959 Speaker 2: bigger than that. And being able to watch people realize 453 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 2: that this YouTube thing is so self limiting and trying 454 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 2: to grow past that is incredibly cool to see. I know, 455 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 2: there's stuff like Nebula, just like this streaming service kind 456 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 2: of built on YouTube but trying to do more of 457 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 2: its own things. That's been interesting to watch grow. But 458 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 2: also a lot of people attempting just to actually like 459 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: take movies to film festivals and actually like engage with 460 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 2: this as like art, like having it be recognized as arts. 461 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 2: Like it would have been so easy to turn the 462 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 2: people's choker into like a YouTube fan film, right, yeah, 463 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 2: fucking thousands of fucking Batman fan films on YouTube. That 464 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 2: would have been so easy, But the insistence are like, no, 465 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 2: I'm actually gonna actually going to use like fair use law, 466 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: gonna actually do like a legal parody and push this 467 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 2: through film festivals, get it in actual movie theaters. We 468 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 2: are seeing a lot more transfilms at film festivals. We 469 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 2: are seeing this start happening, and I'm very excited to 470 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 2: watch this grow. 471 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think what's ultimately happening here is that 472 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 4: there's a combination of two things. One is that we 473 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 4: were getting spat out by the traditional media machine, and 474 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 4: two the traditional media machine is rotting from the inside, right, 475 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 4: And it's not good that either of these things are 476 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 4: really happening. But simultaneously, it also means that we're in 477 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 4: this position where, having been spat out, we can go 478 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 4: make the giant media monster. Yeah, we can go stab 479 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 4: it and force a bunch of these like random ciscritics 480 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 4: to be like to try to figure out a tea 481 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 4: for tea relationship, but just blow it. 482 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 2: Something like this would have never been made by Warner Brothers. 483 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 2: That's just like impossible. This art could have never never 484 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 2: been made under Warner Brothers, Right, that's just impossible. And 485 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,479 Speaker 2: being able to say no, I'm going to use these 486 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 2: cultural iconography that we keep being told endlessly that this 487 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: is this is our culture's version of mythology, of which 488 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: is fucking people talk about superheroes like that all the 489 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 2: fucking time, like this, this is our Greek gods, this 490 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 2: is our blah blah blah blah blah. Yet it's just 491 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 2: owned by like two companies who control everything about it 492 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 2: and don't allow the public to actually engage with these 493 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: as cultural thinkers and say, no, we actually are going 494 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 2: to find a way to use these characters in relation 495 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:27,199 Speaker 2: to someone's own life as an artist and using it 496 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 2: to talk about queerness and comedy and working in the 497 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 2: comedy industry as a queer person to create a very 498 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 2: unique piece that yeah, literally could have there's no way 499 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 2: wouldever be made. So this is this is a piece 500 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 2: of art that could have never happened any other way. 501 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 2: And now we have it playing in a local theater 502 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 2: near you, and I think that's very cool. Here's Via 503 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 2: Dru again talking about the theatrical run. 504 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 3: We're playing a lot of cities. We keep adding more. 505 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 3: If you don't see your city, bother the theater in 506 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 3: your town and tell them you want them to play it, 507 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 3: and you know, show them one of the many articles 508 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,479 Speaker 3: out this film and maybe they maybe they'll do it, 509 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 3: or reach out to us and let us know the 510 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 3: Peoplesjoker dot com and you can follow me at Vera 511 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 3: Drew twenty two on Twitter, Instagram, and now TikTok. Don't 512 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 3: know how to use it, but we're going to figure 513 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 3: it out together. 514 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. Again. You can check out The People's 515 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 2: Joker at The People's Joker dot com look for tickets 516 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 2: and showtimes. Hopefully they'll be one in your area. Next week, 517 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 2: there'll be more episodes talking about the making of this movie, 518 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 2: as well as a few other transcomedian art projects that 519 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 2: are currently ongoing. See you on the other side. 520 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 521 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 522 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the 523 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 524 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 525 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: monthly at cool Zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.