1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 2: We're going to switch gears now. We're going to talk 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 2: about a topic that has been really impacting a very 4 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 2: specific part of the market. We're going to talk about 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: how streaming has been disrupting traditional business models in linear television, 6 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 2: and we're going to look here at those advertising spending trends, 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 2: because of course it's impacting how big tech companies approach 8 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 2: the space as well. Data that emerged justice month from 9 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 2: Group M shows that the ad industry is estimated to 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: have pulled in a trillion dollars in annual revenue for 11 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: the first time, and tech companies are getting a huge 12 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 2: chunk of it. We're going to bring in Mark Douglas, 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 2: founder and CEO of Mountain, a tech company that specializes 14 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: in TV advertising software. Mark, I think about a lot 15 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 2: of the discussions we've had with you all year, ones 16 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 2: that have really surrounded political ad spending, Ones that have 17 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 2: kind of talked here about the dominance of Amazon and 18 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:59,319 Speaker 2: Netflix getting into different types of streaming, different types of 19 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 2: viewing that have helped them capture a little bit more 20 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: of that ad spend. When you think forward to next year, 21 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 2: what's going to be the new story here. What is 22 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 2: going to be the latest that we see in terms 23 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 2: of what seems like a parabolic move in this industry. 24 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think the big thing is that all 25 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 3: of the major streaming networks are streaming first. Now that 26 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 3: you could see that, Like in meetings I have with 27 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 3: a lot of networks during the year, they went from 28 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 3: what do they do about their linear business to their 29 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 3: just entirely focused on streaming consider linear legacy business. And 30 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 3: I think all of them see and why I say, well, 31 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 3: I mean Disney obviously, Netflix, others see it as a 32 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,199 Speaker 3: real big growth opportunity for the first time and long 33 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 3: time for the industry. Because this industry has been so 34 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 3: dependent on a small number of very large advertisments, and 35 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 3: now that customer base is broadening very. 36 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 4: Rapidly, what will be the next catalyst for advertising? Obviously 37 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 4: the election was huge one, but we need to know. 38 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 3: Well, I think ESPN really going all in on streaming 39 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 3: that's happening in twenty twenty five. 40 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: I think that's a big deal. 41 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 3: Sports, any sports content tend to do really well. You 42 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 3: see Netflix bringing WWE to Netflix, I think it's going 43 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 3: to be a great moment. And that's only like a 44 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 3: less than two weeks away, So you're just going to 45 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 3: see a lot more sports content. I think Disney and 46 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 3: others are really stepping up in terms that are going 47 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 3: to step up in terms of the amount of content. 48 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 3: But it ultimately is all about sports right now. 49 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: Just people. The advertisers just love sports content. 50 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 2: Okay, there's a specific ad I watched last night. I 51 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: kind of lost my mind a little bit because I 52 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 2: was like, Wow, wouldn't have thought that this was the 53 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 2: audience for that market Monday night football. Okay, I'm watching 54 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 2: it last night, Mark, and all of a sudden, did 55 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: you see this advertisement? The SAP ad about technology, data centers, 56 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: nuclear power and the CHROs and needing to be in 57 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 2: the conversation? Yeah, you see that a professional audience is 58 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: being targeted through sports. Sports is kind of the vehicle 59 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 2: for everything. It feels like when you look at some 60 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: of these ads that are being brought to the platforms, 61 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 2: what does that mean in terms of different companies trying 62 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 2: to target different audiences. Do you think that that you'll 63 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 2: see different types of ads going on to these major 64 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 2: sporting events because they're becoming ever more important to reach people. 65 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's two things happening at the same time. 66 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 3: One is you have some advertisers who are kind of 67 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 3: still hooked on that big moment. You know, tomorrow you're 68 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 3: going to have big moment two NFL games on Netflix, 69 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 3: but they're kind of just still really attracted to reaching 70 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 3: a lot of people at the same time, and sports 71 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 3: is the scent one of the few opportunities to do that. 72 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:51,279 Speaker 1: But then at the same. 73 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 3: Time, you have a lot of new, small and mid 74 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 3: sized advertisers who coming into market for the first time, 75 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 3: and they don't care about big events, they don't care 76 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 3: about sports, they care about revenue for their business. They 77 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 3: just want to reach that perfect person that's going to 78 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 3: buy from them. And so both of those trends are 79 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 3: growing at the same time. And so obviously in this case, 80 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 3: I'm doaling your candidate to buy SAP software, you know, 81 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 3: unless you're a CFO of a company, so you know 82 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 3: they're definitely going for that, like, let me reach as 83 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 3: many people as I can. I think that's actually going 84 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 3: to decline over time because the ability to target the 85 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,239 Speaker 3: right consumer is just getting better and better. 86 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: On streaming TV, well, why waste your dollars, right, I mean, 87 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 2: if it's so expensive to get that kind of that 88 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: ticket on Monday Sunday night football, Then why not go 89 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 2: to other places? Why not go to Instagram for example, 90 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 2: if you're trying to be more targeted in terms of 91 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: where you're getting your viewers. 92 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that that's part of this, Like the 93 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 3: bifurcation is that these large advertisers that are led by 94 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 3: cmos that I think are just used to that form 95 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 3: of buying media. But go to the average e commerce site. 96 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 3: You know, Maltain works with one Wheel, we work with 97 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 3: hex Slad. They would never play sads like that. Their 98 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 3: goal is to find that consumer is going to buy 99 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 3: literally that week, and to reach them and put their 100 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 3: product in from the first time. And they're comparing streaming 101 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 3: TV to Instagram and the way you're saying, whereas in 102 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 3: this case, you know, SAP, Yeah, clearly was not. 103 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: So it's just. 104 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 3: Younger digital buyers versus more traditional media buyers just kind 105 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 3: of attack the opportunity different ways. 106 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, Mark, I mean, it's very easily break upable into 107 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 4: the different demographics. So it's TikTok for you know, up 108 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 4: to a certain age. Then it's maybe Instagram, then Facebook, 109 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 4: and then you know the very oldest among us perhaps 110 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 4: the actual newspapers and TV stations. 111 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 112 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 3: The one thing to keep in mind is more people 113 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 3: watch TV a day than what then use social media. 114 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 3: So about three point five billion people worldwide use social 115 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 3: media daily for an hour, and five point five billion 116 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 3: people a day watch TV and they. 117 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: Do it for three hours. 118 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 3: So, you know, feels like Instagram, Like social media is 119 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 3: the new medium, but it's a small ad that you 120 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 3: can swipe by really easily versus an ad on a 121 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 3: you know, so on a six point five inch phone 122 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 3: screen versus sixty five inches on your wall, and more 123 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 3: people watching it and doing it for longer. So TV 124 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 3: is not only starting holding its own, it's it's making 125 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 3: a comeback in terms of providing both the reach, the 126 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 3: targeting and the big screen with thirty seconds a time 127 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 3: to get your message across. As an advertiser, that's really appealing. 128 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 3: It's very very appealing for advertisers to get that. 129 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 4: Are the middleman still as important as they were? Or 130 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 4: is there the potential now for advertisers to go directly 131 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 4: to the broadcast outlets? 132 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: Yeah? 133 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 3: So I mean that's literally what man does. We provide 134 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 3: a self service solution, mainly gear to small mid sized businesses, 135 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 3: but we increase they have larger brands using our platform, 136 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 3: and so I wouldn't say the middleman is gone, because 137 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 3: when you're spending big budgets, you want a lot of 138 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 3: strategy around it. And that's what all the holding you know, 139 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 3: advertising holding companies do what the group them who you 140 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, you know what they provide. But increasingly, I 141 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 3: would say a majority of the newer advertisers coming in 142 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 3: this market do it themselves that they're coming in and 143 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 3: they're like, I'm used to doing this on Instagram, I'm 144 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 3: used to doing this with Google, and I'm now going 145 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 3: to be used to doing it on streaming TV. So 146 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 3: you so again, the customers are kind of changing. At 147 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 3: the same time, the industry is just. 148 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 4: Really briefly, mark any stadium is going to be renamed 149 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 4: next year, Shanelli heard you yesterday talking about. 150 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 2: And Nissan Stadium sound stadium. 151 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 152 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 4: Who would be able to buy something like that or 153 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 4: who would be in the you know the top names. 154 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 3: Well, I don't have a name off the top of 155 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 3: my head, but I know a few years ago it's 156 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 3: all about crypto, you know, naming stadiums about crypto. 157 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: I don't think we're going to see that trend. So 158 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: there is a new name. It's probably gonna be a 159 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: little more traditional, all. 160 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 4: Right, Mark, thank you so much. That is Mark Douglas, 161 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 4: founder and CEO of Mountain, looking forward to speaking to 162 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 4: you again in twenty twenty five.