1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Ho, thank you so much 3 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: as always for tuning in. We are back in a 4 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: ridiculous typical history fashion. We are indeed doing a Christmas 5 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: episode here with Belseemer Yes with Bells on with Mule 6 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: Tide Lads, Christmas in June. That is none other than 7 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: our own super producer Max the Frey Train Williams. 8 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: I think we might even be a month early for 9 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 2: an unseasonable Christmas discussion. Wouldn't that typically be Christmas in July? Yeah, 10 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 2: that would be the cliche. Soil boy, we just can't 11 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 2: get it right. We're gonna get it right. 12 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 3: We released the Leapier episode on the Leapier. 13 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: Oh that's a guys, Hey, guys, we uh, we're just 14 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 1: ahead of the curve. 15 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 4: Okay. 16 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: That's what we'll say is that this is what they in. 17 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 4: The industry call it tent pole episode. 18 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 2: Ben I think I've talked on the podcast definitely Off 19 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 2: Mike with you about my recent rediscovery of the Birthday Boys, 20 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 2: the sketch comedy show. They do a sketch called September Santa, 21 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: where as Santa Claus comes to the window during September 22 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 2: and instead of saying ho ho ho, he says hoo hoo, 23 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: who It's September Santa, and he gives everyone a pencil and. 24 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 4: It's really underwhelming. And that's sort of the joke. 25 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: And that is Noel Brown. Oh, Ben Bullet. 26 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 4: We're very on September Santa. 27 00:01:55,360 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: Oh we are. We are talking Santa Claus, Chris, if 28 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: you're listening. We're big fans. We've we've talked in the 29 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: past about how Political Cartoonist and the Coca Cola company 30 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: created the image we associate with that magical elf today. 31 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: Hell, we talked about it in our recent discussion of 32 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 2: New Coke. 33 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: We sure did. You can't get away from it. You've 34 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: probably also heard our explorations of Crampis, who I like 35 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: to think of as the sith Lord to Santa's Jedi. 36 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 2: I like to overpronounce it because I always once, as 37 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: you know, a small German boy. 38 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: We talked about the Yule Tide Lads, a rogues gallery 39 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: of mischief making scamps with swiperd Yeah, with extremely weird, 40 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: action oriented names, very strange. 41 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: You know, it would be sick Ben to get an 42 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: action figure set of the Mule Lads, each with their 43 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 2: own you know, articulatable move like what is it meat 44 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: hook something liquor sniffer, window liquor, window liquers at twin 45 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: song to one. 46 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: Of the things. So maybe maybe that uh, maybe maybe 47 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: that doll's head opens and has a big tongue that 48 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: flicks up and down. 49 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: I just really, you know, who else has a big 50 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 2: tongue flicks having down his carampoos? But I just realized, 51 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 2: Ben that the AFX twin song window lickor may well 52 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 2: be a reference to the Mule Lads. But we're talking 53 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,959 Speaker 2: weird fetishization of Santa Claus today. 54 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, we'd think if you had. 55 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: Like a furry con, a furry convention or one of 56 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 2: those kind of swinger festivals. But everyone dressed up as 57 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: Santa Claus. And look, this is not me throwing the 58 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: furry community under the bus. I know it's not all 59 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 2: about weird hotel sex. I know there's a lot of 60 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 2: layers to the furry life, but Santa con Man weirdly 61 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 2: horny and drunk. 62 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, the folks, we're coming to you live from the 63 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: United States of America. A pretty popular experiment for a 64 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: few centuries. This country in particular has conventions and parties 65 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: and gatherings for darn near everything. Santa Claus is no exception. 66 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: As Noel said, we're talking Santa Con. It's high notes, 67 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: its history, its controversy, and perhaps most ridiculously, why some 68 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: people are gonna tell you it's the worst thing ever. 69 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: I don't know. Noel Key, take us to California in 70 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. 71 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: I would love to ben California circa nineteen ninety four 72 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: one of my very favorite eras, so join us when 73 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 2: Santa Cohn officially takes root thanks to a guy named 74 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 2: John Law and his buddies Rob Schmidt and Chris Radcliffe. 75 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: This is the sort of the modern version of the 76 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 2: con as we know it. However, it's inspiration or these lads. 77 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 2: Inspiration dates even farther back to the nineteen seventies, when 78 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 2: a Danish theater group known as Solvagnin decided to get 79 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: a little tricksy and hatch a prank. 80 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so they had dozens of actors in their crew 81 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: dress as Santa in Copenhagen and these ooh, I have 82 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: it wrong. In the notes, I have these Satans. It's 83 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: these Santas. They stand around this department store, they grab 84 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: items off the shelf and then they had them to 85 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: unsuspecting innocent customers as Christmas presents. 86 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: This is anarchy personified ben They're basically shoplifting. 87 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 4: They're stealing from the rich and giving to the poor 88 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 4: sort of kind of. 89 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 2: It's a bit of performance art, right, an anti corporate 90 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 2: protest masquerading as sort of a flash mob slash bit 91 00:05:58,320 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 2: of performance. 92 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: Art improv everywhere style. Right. So the folks that we 93 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: just mentioned there a second ago, they are inspired by 94 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: an article they read in Mother Jones about this this 95 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: group and this prank squad called the Cacophony Society. They 96 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: launch Santa Con. Originally they called it Santarcy. 97 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: Right, like I was saying earlier, Total anarchy, chaos. 98 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 4: You gotta love that. 99 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 2: And they know how to get up to some shenanigans 100 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 2: in Copenhagen. So in the first year, thirty four folks 101 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 2: participated in this event, wearing Santa suits, marching through the 102 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: streets of the Golden Gates City aka San Francisco. I 103 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: don't call it San Frana the locals and make funny 104 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 2: they crash hot. 105 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 4: Oh boy, you know what isn't it funny? 106 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 2: Though? Been the no matter how cool people are that 107 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 2: we hang with, they always think that we'll think that 108 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,799 Speaker 2: that's fun or cool. 109 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 4: I'm always blown away. 110 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 2: We're hanging with like very in the no people, and 111 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 2: they always say hot Lanta to us, as if that's 112 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: supposed to like, you know, be cute. 113 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 4: But it's right, it's okay. 114 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's kind of like some Uh, it's kind 115 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: of like an American who goes to Dublin and expects 116 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: everybody to be amazed that their grandparents were Irish. 117 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, or orders an Irish car bomb. 118 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: No, oh gosh, that's one to grow on folks. Don't 119 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: do it. 120 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 4: No, definitely don't do it. 121 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 2: If anyone doesn't know that is that is actually a 122 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: pretty popular it used to be drink here in the 123 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: States where I think it is a shot of Bailey's dropped. 124 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 3: Into Irish Irish whiskey, so it's half Bailey's half Irish whiskey, 125 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 3: so lo like at Jambison or a totalim or do 126 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 3: you drop it into like a half half pint. 127 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 4: Of half pints and it's actually pretty good, but. 128 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 3: It tastes like chocolate milk. But yeah, incredibly offensive. 129 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: Well, you see, folks, Max, Nolan and I used to 130 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: be cool. We used to party. 131 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 4: We were never hear something, I'm cool now that I 132 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 4: don't party. 133 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: We were. 134 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 3: I am. I am definitely cool now that now that 135 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 3: I don't party. But I was never cool. 136 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: All right, Well check out our earlier when. 137 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 3: I were in the hot tub together. 138 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 4: Oh boy, the hot tub times. Max, take me back 139 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 4: to the hot tub times. 140 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 3: We can do it again, buddy, you can bring Ben 141 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 3: this time to think. 142 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 4: I think it's time. I think hard passed. 143 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 3: No man, Matt, Matt and his partner and I were 144 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 3: in hot tub together just recently. 145 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 4: Well, Dan, now I feel as out. 146 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: You were there. 147 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 3: You just went off and did your own thing at Bahamar's. 148 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was party, and we were not We were 149 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: not dressed as Santa I was definitely not invited either. Noel, 150 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: don't feel bad. 151 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 4: Uh, we invite it too. 152 00:08:58,080 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 3: Ell, y'all were invited. 153 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 2: I think the invitation was implied. All are welcome in 154 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: Max's hot tub parties. 155 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: And these folks, not Max and Nole, these folks who 156 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: launched Santa Cod are trying to not create crime. Necessarily, 157 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: they're crashing elite parties. Their co founders said they wanted 158 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: to just shock people and put them into a different reality. 159 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: They're just out there rebel rousing up to some mischief, 160 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 2: but all good clean fun. Like you said, Ben, they 161 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 2: weren't like doing vandalism or breaking and entering. So it 162 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 2: was originally supposed to be kind of a mockery of 163 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 2: how offensively consumerist Christmas ultimately became and continues to be. 164 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 4: So there came this moment when the organizers realized that 165 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 4: there might. 166 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 2: Be something bigger going on here than just a one 167 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 2: off kind of prank. The Coffee Society decided they would 168 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 2: restage the event the next year, at which point more 169 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 2: than one hundred participants signed up. And then we started 170 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: to see a handful of arrests as these Santas began 171 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 2: to imbibe perhaps a little more openly. 172 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, they got jolly on the streets, is the way 173 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 1: I put it. They're pretty South Santa's And I had 174 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: a side note on the research for this. You guys, 175 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: is San Francisco a pepsi town or a Coca Cola. 176 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 2: Tow It's definitely a cocaine town, is that true? Well, 177 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 2: I mean back in these days it probably was. Certainly 178 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 2: in the sixties. But that's a good. 179 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 4: Question, Matt. I don't really know. 180 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: I tend to think of West Coast as being more 181 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: Coca Cola. I think of pepsi as being more of 182 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 2: a mid Middle America thing. But honestly, I seem to 183 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 2: recall being seeing more Coke products. 184 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: Let's see, you'll have to let us know, folks. This 185 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: this thing anyway, it's called Santa Con from its original 186 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: Bethlehem in San Francisco. It franchises out to Portland. In 187 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six. Police meet the Santa Con fans and 188 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 1: they suspect for some reason that these jolly revelers may 189 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: be terrorists, so they hit them up with full on 190 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: riot gear. 191 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 4: Oh boy. 192 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 2: By the way, San Francisco is definitely a Coca Cola town. 193 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 2: It would have most of the restaurants, stadiums, and chain 194 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 2: type establishments. 195 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 4: Have contracts with Coke. 196 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: I love you guys for. 197 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 4: Their fountain drinks. 198 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,359 Speaker 1: I love you guys. Seafood soup too. What's it called ciappino? 199 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: Something like that? 200 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 4: Like a chowda? 201 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a tomato based a tomato. Eachouda chowda. 202 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 3: Jump in here as well. Oracle Park, which is the 203 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 3: Athe and T Park, which is the giant stadium right 204 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 3: on the bay, has a giant Coca Cola bottle advertisement 205 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 3: in the outfield. I was actually I got suggestion from 206 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 3: Reddit to find out which side of the argument you're on. 207 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 3: Just whatever, So do they serve at your baseball stadium? 208 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 2: That's who's winning the Oh yeah, that would that would 209 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 2: be a pretty good canary in the soda col mine. 210 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: And we've confirmed that Max Williams is on Reddit. 211 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 3: Was there ever any death of that one? 212 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 4: I don't think so. 213 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: We know that after nineteen ninety six. The next year, 214 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, Santa Quauan expanded to Seattle. By nineteen 215 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: ninety eight, it's in Los Angeles and New York. And 216 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: each step of its expansion to your earlier point, NOL, 217 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: it became less of a protest against consumerism and more 218 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: an excuse for people to just cause play and party. 219 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 2: There is something kind of funny. You see it in 220 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: like comedies of the typically of the eighties, where they'll 221 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 2: be like some dude playing Santa at a you know 222 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 2: what do you call it, like an apartment store or 223 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: some kind of Christmas party, and inevitably ends up getting wasted. 224 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 2: There is just something about the image of the slovenly 225 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 2: hobo Santa, Yes, for lack of a better term, that 226 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 2: has kind of persevered, So I get what they were 227 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 2: going for with this. However, it did seem to balloon 228 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: a little bit out of control. The Village Voice had 229 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 2: this to say when John Law decided to bring Santacon 230 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 2: to New York City in nineteen ninety eight, referring to 231 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 2: as a situation where a San Franciscan strapped on a 232 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 2: fake white beard, donned a twelve dollars red suit, and 233 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 2: led two hundred Santas as they went caroling up Fifth 234 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 2: Avenue in Manhattan. During their joyful march uptown, throngs of 235 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 2: bustling New Yorkers and tourists paused to gauk at the 236 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 2: sea of Redfeldt and Vlure. A police officer yelled, Hey, Santa, 237 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,479 Speaker 2: can you get me a date with Cindy Crawford? 238 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 4: And I'm walking here. It's so New York. I love it. 239 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 2: So it seems like this guy was sort of charmed 240 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:56,599 Speaker 2: by it. It's a village voice being a bit of 241 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: a you know, snarky rag, So it doesn't seem like 242 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 2: the ultimate implications had become. 243 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 4: Clear yet where this was heading in New York. 244 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, Initially it was just a fun thing for you 245 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: to see in the city, right, and you would say, 246 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: you know, hey, Santa, you're walking there. These folks weren't 247 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: breaking stuff. They were strolling around public areas, they were 248 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: climbing on public statues, they were singing loud Christmas songs, 249 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: and ultimately they were just a bunch of red suited scamps. 250 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: They had their the lure and they would be they 251 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: would be partying. I'm going to be honest, I think 252 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: they were probably using drugs. Not to sound too much 253 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: like a square, but they were peaceful. So whenever local 254 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: security came up to them and said, hey guys, you're 255 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: all dressed like Santa, and you were all clearly not 256 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: able to drive. 257 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 2: So it was probably the kindly Irish cop that said 258 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: moving along, fellows moving a law. 259 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 4: Right, They complied, and the Santa said ho, ho will go. 260 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: They left. It was pretty wholesome. It seemed like everyone, 261 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: even unto the police and the security guards to your 262 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: earlier point, was having a bit of fun with it. 263 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: One of the coolest examples of this comes from John 264 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: Law himself. 265 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, Johnny Law himself were called a particular moment of 266 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 2: inspiration where the Santas wandered in their throng into Central Park, 267 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 2: where they found a crowd of ice skaters reveling on 268 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: a frozen pond. This the Santas yelled at them, Merry Christmas, 269 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 2: and the skaters screamed back cheers of appreciation and you know, jubilants. 270 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 2: It was just, you know, a lovely moment. They were appreciated. 271 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: This was a really cool moment for john and Law. 272 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: He says that he hated Christmas ever since he was 273 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: nine years old and learned that everybody spoilers three to one. 274 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: If you are under nine years old, turn off the 275 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: podcast now three two. What he learned that Santa is 276 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: not real. 277 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 2: And he's real if you believe he's real in your heart. 278 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: Sure. There were probably two hundred of them getting drunk 279 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: later this year, very real, he says. He says, later, 280 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: I almost started crying. I stopped hating Christmas. Then that 281 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: was the beginning of my existential life. I thought Christmas 282 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: was belowney and everything we're told is a lie. All 283 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: the companies are just trying to sell you stuff. 284 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 2: Ah, they say the Johnny Law's heart grew three sizes 285 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 2: that day. This is some real grants you still Christmas 286 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 2: Catharsis year. That's when Law really truly felt the power 287 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 2: of Christmas as a symbol and he realized, and this 288 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 2: is in his words, people just want to feel warm 289 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 2: and fuzzy and they just want to join together beauty. 290 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. I mean, if there's anything I 291 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 2: like about Christmas, it is that very aspect. And I'm 292 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,719 Speaker 2: not like super against the commercialism. 293 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 4: Of it, you know whatever. 294 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: I'm a bit of a shopper, but I do enjoy 295 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 2: the decorations, especially in a place like New York where 296 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 2: there feels like there's magic in the air. I'm a 297 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 2: sucker for that stuff. And it's mainly because of the 298 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 2: things that he's describing here, that kind of community quality. 299 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: Dude, Asia does Christmas amazing. It's boggers, you know. And 300 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: if you get a chance to check out a Christmas 301 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: market in Europe, please do. It's just fascinating. And Santa Con, 302 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 1: I think we can make an argument Santa Con is 303 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 1: not inherently a bad thing, but as it grows, as 304 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: it becomes a franchise and a global tradition. We see 305 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: more Santa's equal more problems. It's currently spread to forty 306 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: four different countries across the planet, and we talked about 307 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: the metropols like New York, London, also Vancouver, Belfast, Moscow. 308 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 4: They do it in our humble metropolis of Atlanta. 309 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and I'm going to be honest with everybody, 310 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: I actually avoid it. 311 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 2: Well, it's much maligned if you haven't gotten the hint 312 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 2: of where it's heading. It has become quite the quite 313 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 2: the problematic event. 314 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. 315 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: After that first trip to the Big Apple, John Law 316 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: was thinking we should just pull the plug on this thing. 317 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: But it was too late. Already it already caught fire, right, 318 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: and it took on a life of its own. It 319 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: morphed into less of an anti consumerism thing and more 320 00:18:55,080 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: into like a frat, energy, booze and drug focused public party. 321 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. It's basically just an excuse to cause trouble. 322 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 4: And get wasted in public. 323 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is where we see some of the 324 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: earliest controversy because people in New York and people in 325 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: other cities where this becomes a regular event had taken 326 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: to hiding indoors, to literally quarantining themselves until the madness 327 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: was over. There's a great quote from The New York 328 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: Times writing about this in twenty thirteen, and they say 329 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: it's a holiday that actual New Yorkers hate. 330 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 2: Well, that's true, Ben, and I actually witnessed some of 331 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 2: this myself by accident a couple months ago, when I 332 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 2: found myself in Midtown Manhattan during Saint Patrick's Day and 333 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 2: I was just like, goodness, this is like Marty Grass here. 334 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:56,239 Speaker 4: It really really was. 335 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 2: New Yorkers have long endured other people's celebrations on Saint 336 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 2: Patrick's Day. They noticed day out of the pubs in 337 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 2: Midtown if they do not want to be overwhelmed in 338 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 2: a sea of semi conscious green. 339 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 4: So these kind of like public. 340 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 2: Drunken revelry type events are already wearing thin on people's patients. 341 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: Did I hear in New York? Yeah? Did I ever 342 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: tell you guys about the time I accidentally ended up 343 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: in Savannah, Georgia during Saint Patrick's Day. It was not 344 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: my best adventure. 345 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 2: People really loved Saint Patrick's Day and Savannah as well. 346 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 2: And it's apparently quite the quite the quite the show 347 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 2: I often hear here. I often hear of things like 348 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 2: this being referred to as amateur hour. 349 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I was on River Street and a fight 350 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: broke out at this restaurant that was basically a bar 351 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: at that point, and a guy pulled a knife and 352 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: then yelled something about Saint Patrick and then walked outside 353 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: and the cops got them. It was a very strange occasion. 354 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 4: There was going to be a rumble. 355 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: Well, there were a lot of flying stools. But anyway, 356 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: as we're saying in New York Times, the quote continues, 357 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: they being the New Yorkers avoid driving into Manhattan at 358 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: all costs during the Puerto Rican Day Parade because it 359 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: turns the heart of the borough into a vast parking lot. 360 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: Fashions night out is an occasion to stay in if 361 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: you live in Soho. And New Year's Eve to our 362 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: earlier point, guys, amateur hour, Yeah, in less than out 363 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: of town visitor drags native kicking and screaming into Times Square. 364 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 4: I won't even watch it on TV. It's triggering. 365 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:45,719 Speaker 1: No, no, yeah, I look, I'm no judgment anywhere to anybody. 366 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: But we think it's cool to use actual bathrooms instead 367 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: of streets or diapers. 368 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 2: Well, we're going to get to that because that definitely 369 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 2: becomes a feature of Santa Claus. So now we've got 370 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 2: a new contender emerging for the New York Times for 371 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 2: the event that many New Yorkers most love to hate, 372 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 2: and that is Santa Con. They note that it's really 373 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 2: just become kind of a massive pub crawl with no 374 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 2: particular leadership, no sign in, no tickets issued, a secret 375 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 2: route that isn't really revealed until the last minute to 376 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 2: keep the you know, the cops off the scent, as 377 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 2: well as something that you refer to here in the 378 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 2: notes here as the anti Santy's which may well be 379 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 2: a contingent that's starting to emerge in New York. 380 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and in Santa CON's defense, they've always had two 381 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: very simple rules. One dress up, wear some kind of costume, 382 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 1: and two don't make kids cry. 383 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Like imagine the Typically they're 384 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 2: more often than not breaking the second rule. 385 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 4: If they're breaking any of I think you're right, But 386 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 4: why is santav Santa's nose? 387 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: Right? Mom? Why doesn't Santa wear pants? So despite this 388 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: wholesome beginning, Santa Con is getting a reputation problem. You 389 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: would see local activism in New York especially where people 390 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: would print and distribute flyers in advance of Santa Con 391 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: and they would say stuff like alcohols soaked Father, Christmas 392 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: themed flash mob, not welcome here, take your bodily fluids 393 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: and public intoxication elsewhere. 394 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 4: For sure, bodily fluids being key. 395 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 2: A lot of instances of public urination, people you know, 396 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 2: vomiting in the streets, groping women. 397 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 4: Just absolute. 398 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 2: I think I used this word recently chic Canary Canary then. 399 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, chicanery noll for sure. I mean police in Hell's Kitchen, 400 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: which was still kind of a tough neighborhood at the time, 401 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: they would send letters to people who owned restaurants and 402 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: bars and they would say, please look, if someone's dressed 403 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: as Santa and you know they've had enough to drink, 404 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: don't overserve them. One guy, we got to shout out. 405 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: Police lieutenant at the time, John Kochie said, having thousands 406 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: of intoxicated party goers roam the streets urinating, littering, vomiting 407 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,479 Speaker 1: and vandalizing will not be tolerated in our neighborhood. I 408 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: just love I can't escape it. I know why people 409 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 1: have a problem with it, but guys, I cannot escape 410 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,959 Speaker 1: the concept of how epic this would be. As a 411 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: movie that takes place one night and there's someone who 412 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: gets roped into Santa Coln. 413 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 2: I'd be interesting. I could see that. Yeah, sort of 414 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 2: bad Santa. We already have that, But that's not quite 415 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 2: the same. It has to be on mass and has 416 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 2: to be just like a fly on the wall that 417 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 2: gets sort of absorbed into the Santa hive and really quickly. 418 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,719 Speaker 2: I'd like to walk back my use so she canary. 419 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 2: The word I was actually looking for was debauchery. Canary 420 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 2: is a great word, but it more refers to the 421 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 2: use of clever tricks and subterfuge in order to manipulate 422 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 2: folks to their own ends, which is not what these 423 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 2: Santas are doing at all. 424 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 4: Because I don't have their wits about them. 425 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 2: It is utter debauchery and Bachanalian fiasco in those streets. 426 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 1: Agreed and great note they are debauched for sure, and 427 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: locals like imagine you live in one of the neighborhoods 428 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: that gets absolutely rollicked by Santa cod you're a local, 429 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: You're probably worried about your children, if you have them, 430 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: you probably want to stay inside, and you know full 431 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: well that no matter what the organizers say, they have 432 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: no control over. The participants will be peeing in the streets, littering, puking, 433 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: as said, groping people. There were arrest every single year. 434 00:25:55,320 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: And what is you know, fundamentally problematic about this is 435 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: it's not Santa behavior, It's not cannon. 436 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 2: No, Santa's jolly, but he's not drunk. I mean, I'm 437 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 2: sure he loves a sip of schnapps, you know, along 438 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 2: with the best of them. But like the guy, he 439 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 2: keeps his wits about him. Think of all he has 440 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 2: to accomplish and such a short amount of time, he's 441 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 2: got to be sharp, he's got to be locked in. 442 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, in the Marvel universe, he's officially, you know, Omega 443 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: level mutant, which is the highest level of mutant. I'm 444 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 1: fun at parties, no, No, but not as Santa Con 445 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: because I've never been. I don't have plans to go. 446 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: One of the co creators later said, look, the original 447 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: Santa Con was awesome. You see somebody wake up from 448 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: this zombie like thing into beat me here, Max. Holy shit, 449 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: there's something going on around here that I can't account 450 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: for it. The original Santa Con created a send of 451 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: wonder they were being silly and stupid, and I think 452 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: that's where things were wrong. 453 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 2: Well, that's right, because we started to see the lines 454 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 2: being blurred where when alcohol gets added to the equation, 455 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 2: it's real easy for things to go from good, clean. 456 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 4: Fun to you know, crime doing crimes. 457 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 2: The creators were increasingly frustrated with this kind of bastardization 458 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 2: of their original idea, which was more about kind of 459 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 2: sticking it to the man and the theater of the absurd, 460 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 2: and essentially it had become just an excuse to drink 461 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 2: in public for public intoxication and bad behavior, so they 462 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 2: more or less began to distance themselves from it. However, 463 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 2: the adventure still continue because, as we know, sometimes when 464 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 2: things take on a life of their own, the original 465 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 2: creator's intent no longer really matters. 466 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is perhaps the greatest crime of all. One 467 00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: person's fun haying maybe another person's actual crime saying. The 468 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: adventures continue, Santa Coon's reputation worsens over time. The organizers 469 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: typically remained anonymous, but they were doing their best to 470 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: tamp down the outcry from the public and the chaos 471 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: from the participants. If we fast forward a little bit, 472 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: then we get to twenty twenty five where we see 473 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: a phenomenal documentary called Santa Con. 474 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, in a burst of creativity, I would say it, Ben, 475 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 2: but you know what, it gets the job done. 476 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 4: We know what it's about. 477 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 2: So this guy Seth Porgy's who is the creator of 478 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 2: the film, sums up the problem of pranks versus problematic 479 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 2: behavior is pretty elegantly when he had this to say, 480 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 2: random absurdism, as we were mentioning before, was the point. 481 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 2: But within the random absurdism, we all can put our 482 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 2: own message into it, our own interpretation, our own feelings 483 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 2: about this thing, and unearthed something within all of us. 484 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 2: I think the implication here is that some of the 485 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 2: things that get unearthed are kind of dark. 486 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: Yeah to someone saying this is why we can't have 487 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: nice things, Max, can we get you to say that 488 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: on air so we can use it as a meme later. 489 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 3: This is why we can't have nice things? 490 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: Oh, phenomenal step aside Shakespeare, that's Max Williams. Can we 491 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: do Max with the facts. 492 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 4: We must seeking in the phone? And he's fallen knowledge 493 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 4: it's just for you right now? The fact. 494 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 3: I mean, that's gonna be the second one of this 495 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 3: episode already. 496 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 4: Well, then definitely not. 497 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: We have time for one more recent controversy. Uh Santa 498 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: con haters, and there are many. We're thrilled as heck 499 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: by the newest Chris Kringle scandal. I occurred just last month, 500 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: as we are recording here at the end of May. 501 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: Courtesy of the Guardian. This comes to us Stephen pil 502 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: Day's p I LDEs I'm not sure I pronounce the 503 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: last name, is the organizer of Santa Klow in New 504 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: York City got arrested no for allegedly using hundreds of 505 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: thousands of dollars from charity donations for himself. 506 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 2: We may have buried the lead on that just ever 507 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 2: so slightly, because I think most of these santacom gatherings 508 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 2: are marketed as being for charity, yes, which adds a 509 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 2: whole other kind of layer of kind of grossness to 510 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 2: them when you consider what they end up becoming. But 511 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 2: now we have absolute confirmation that, yeah, something's definitely rotten 512 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 2: in the North Pole. 513 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: Oh. I like that man, At least in one I 514 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: was just saying, Oh, no, I love it man, I 515 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: think it's perfect. This guy repeatedly said all the proceeds 516 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: like you were saying, no, go to charity. I don't 517 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,239 Speaker 1: get any money from Santa Con or anything related to it. 518 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: No producer receives any income from this event. But it 519 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: turns out the courts don't think that is true. The 520 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: guy took some extravagant vacations, he went to some really 521 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: nice places, and Santa Con events generated something like two 522 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: point seven million dollars from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty four. 523 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 4: And that'll buy you a lot of milk and cookies. 524 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll get your shops as well. I imagine, keep you 525 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: in the lure. The Feds, the federal prosecutors, i should say, 526 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: alleged that this individual took the money and donated only 527 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: a small fraction of it to charity, which is why 528 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: we all have to remember to be very I'm not 529 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: going to say cynical, but folks, just be aware when 530 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: you donate to something and it says a portion of 531 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: the pro proceeeds go to charity, trust but verify, trust, verify. 532 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: Shout out to Ronny. This is who Ronald Reagan. 533 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 4: Oh, yes, of course, of course, ron Well, Yes. 534 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: Oh yes, ron Well. Perfect. They have folks, this is 535 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: the story of Santa Con. 536 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 4: So far. 537 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: It might sound ridiculous for a bunch of people to 538 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: dress up like characters from folklore and then party, but 539 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: I at least have to be very transparent glass house 540 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: about this because I went to Renaissance Fair or Renaissance Festival. 541 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: It had an amazing time, and you guys, it's. 542 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 2: A great hang, you know, and where would we be 543 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 2: without events involving dressing up in funny costumes, giving you know, 544 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 2: praise to some unseen spiritual force and you know, getting 545 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 2: totally wasted. 546 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, So basically what religion is, well, what happens next 547 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: to Santakon? Will it become a religion? Will it be 548 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: a historical footnote? Before we end, we got to give 549 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: the last word to our phenomenal documentarian we mentioned earlier. 550 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: Our filmmaker says, everything changes for me. The big takeaway 551 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: from the movie is how, rather than allowing themselves to 552 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: be upset and angry that their creation has changed so much, 553 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: the owners have just accepted the fact that it's okay 554 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: that it isn't for them anymore. And side note our 555 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: documentarian here, he originally wanted to make a hit piece 556 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,239 Speaker 1: on Santa Con and then he fell in love with it. 557 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: Over the course of filming, and he said, Hey, maybe 558 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: being silly and stupid isn't that bad after all. 559 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think we're saying that it's bad, that 560 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 2: being silly and stupid is bad, but I think we 561 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 2: do perhaps come down on the slightly more negative side 562 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 2: when it comes to just absolute public intoxication and acting like, 563 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 2: you know, a bit of it. 564 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 4: Like a pill. 565 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:57,959 Speaker 1: I'm just so worried about the kids. 566 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, think of the kids. That's seriously, this is how 567 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 4: you want them to find out. 568 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: That is how you want them to find out. We 569 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: can't wait to hear your thought. Shout out to all 570 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: the Santa fans in the crowd. I'm saying it like 571 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: it's one. 572 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,439 Speaker 2: Word or the anti Sandy contingent that is out there 573 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 2: trying to you know, fight fight crime. What if the 574 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 2: Santa con folks actually like banded together and became like 575 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 2: the Foot Clan or something like that. 576 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 4: That'd be cool, That'd be pretty cool. 577 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 2: And then you had the anti Sandy contingent out there, 578 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 2: you know, trying to put a stop to their devisive shenanigans. 579 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: The phrase anti Sandy is clearly going to be stuck 580 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,359 Speaker 1: in both of our heads. For the rest. 581 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 2: It's true, and I blame you, and no, you know what, 582 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 2: I credit you. 583 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. We've got to 584 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:51,760 Speaker 1: also credit our super producer, Max the Freight Train Williams. Max, 585 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: when did you learn that Santa Claus is kind of 586 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: a conspiracy? 587 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 3: About twenty minutes ago? 588 00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 4: This is how you find out. 589 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,720 Speaker 2: I just remember finding a skateboard in my parents' closet 590 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 2: and I knew something was a miss And that was 591 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 2: last week too. 592 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 3: Now I'm an evil older brother. So Alex, as soon 593 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 3: as Alex found out that Chris Santa wasn't real, he 594 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 3: made sure I knew that Santa wasn't real. 595 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: Shout out to our composer by the way of segues there, 596 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: Alex Williams. He made this slap and bop you're hearing 597 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:24,359 Speaker 1: at the end. 598 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,320 Speaker 2: Chris frosciotis Naves, jeffco here in Spirit, Jonathan Strickland The 599 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,399 Speaker 2: Quiz to A J Bahamas Jacobs. 600 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 1: The Puzzler, Doctor, Rachel Big Spinach Lance, as well as 601 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: the rude dudes of Ridiculous Crime. If you dig us, 602 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,240 Speaker 1: you will love them. So Hie thee to my favorite 603 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: podcast platform of choice, and uh, we're gonna end this 604 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 1: episode with some Friday energy nol. I've got to look 605 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: up santi costumes. Let's see, they can't be that expensive. 606 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 2: Now, right, No, they're twelve dollars. We said so earlier. 607 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 2: Maybe with you know, accounting for inflation, maybe they're now. 608 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 2: And it depends on the quality. You're right, the price 609 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 2: of alure could well have taken a spike along with 610 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 2: the price of gas. 611 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: Updates to continue. 612 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 4: We'll see you next time. Books. 613 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 614 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.