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Speaker 1: We go out, I record a video of him to

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Speaker 1: his family. Within three weeks, all four of his siblings

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Speaker 1: had recorded messages back, and they all flew from across

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Speaker 1: the country on their own dime. Sitting there there, sitting

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Speaker 1: on a bed, all surrounding him, and he's looking me

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Speaker 1: in the eye and says, you know, thank you for

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Speaker 1: giving me the family back. Yeah. At that point, all right,

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Speaker 1: there's something here. I got a player with.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.

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Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,

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Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in

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Speaker 2: Inner City Memphis, which that last part somehow led to

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Speaker 2: an oscar for the film about our team.

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Speaker 1: That movie is called Undefeated.

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Speaker 2: I believe our country's problems are never going to be

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Speaker 2: solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits

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Speaker 2: using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox,

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Speaker 2: but rather by an army of normal folks. Guys, that's us,

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Speaker 2: just you and me deciding, Hey, you know what, maybe

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Speaker 2: I can help.

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Speaker 1: That's what Kevin.

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Speaker 2: Adler, the voice you just heard, has done. Kevin is

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Speaker 2: the founder of Miracle Messages, which is reunited over one

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Speaker 2: thousand individuals experiencing homelessness with their loved ones. And that's

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Speaker 2: just the beginning of what they've done. I cannot wait

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Speaker 2: for you to meet Kevin right after these brief messages

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Speaker 2: from our general sponsors, Kevin F Adler, Welcome to Memphis.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be.

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Speaker 2: Usually I just say Kevin Adler, right, but with you

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Speaker 2: have to say Kevin F.

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Speaker 1: Well, you could say Kevin or well.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna say Kevin the rest. I'm not gonna sit

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Speaker 2: here and call you Kevin f the whole thing, but

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Speaker 2: the F. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Farrington was my mom's maiden name. She passed away when

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Speaker 1: I was twenty three. She was fifty nine. She had

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Speaker 1: breast cancer. I gotta give her as much credit as

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Speaker 1: I can, So you drop the FM just to make

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Speaker 1: just to give her them and just to make awkward

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Speaker 1: moments like this to start. I think that's beautiful. Oh

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Speaker 1: is it okay?

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Speaker 2: Sure? All right? Kevin man loving his mama. Yeah, that

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Speaker 2: he wants to make sure she's remembered.

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Speaker 1: She was pretty remarkable. Yeah. She was both the strongest

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Speaker 1: and the kindest person I ever met, So she wouldn't

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Speaker 1: It was warm everyone's friend in the neighborhood. You know,

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Speaker 1: the house was the Sunday evening dinner spot, classmates, neighbors,

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Speaker 1: and if you messed with her values, if you did

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Speaker 1: some real out aligned, you knew where she stood. I

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Speaker 1: can answer questions now, nearly twenty years since she passed

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Speaker 1: on where she'd stand on issues. She's both the rose

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Speaker 1: and the one. Yeah. Yeah, and there was a playful

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Speaker 1: side too, because I can get real cerebral, but she'd

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Speaker 1: kind of bring it to a little straighten that out.

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Speaker 2: Let's get real about this, all right. So, given that,

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Speaker 2: where are you from? I grew up in Livermore, California.

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Speaker 2: It's about an hour.

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Speaker 1: East of San Francisco. Yeah, small, it's grown a lot,

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Speaker 1: but I grew up, grew up there with my actually

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Speaker 1: do a business and living, do you really Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: lumber business.

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Speaker 2: Yeah there. It's kind of an industrial area.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is agricultural, the Livermore cowboys. Yeah, growing up.

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Speaker 2: So it's actually pretty conservative out there, oddly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Culturally it's a world away from you know, San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: but it's about an hour east driving.

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Speaker 2: So you grew up there, Yeah, I grew up there.

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Speaker 2: Brother sisters, what you know what was life like, you know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of exploring the world. Pretty idyllic.

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Speaker 1: You know. My my parents, I'd say they were the

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Speaker 1: best mom and dad I could have asked for, except

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Speaker 1: when they were together. They never figured out how to

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Speaker 1: make it work as a couple. You know. My dad

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Speaker 1: had a lot, has a lot of you know issues.

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Speaker 1: Hey Dad, good to see you. You know, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know where the camera is. He's not gonna watch this.

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Speaker 3: But hey, he doesn't understand it either.

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Speaker 1: All the things you're thinking, coach. Now he's you know,

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Speaker 1: he's a wonderful dad. I saw him cry many more

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Speaker 1: times than I saw my mom cry. He showed me

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Speaker 1: that true masculinity is synonymous with emotional forthrightness, saying and

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Speaker 1: doing the right thing. But he also grew up in

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Speaker 1: a very broken home and also escaped the war at

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Speaker 1: home in his household when he was seventeen to go

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Speaker 1: fight the war in Vietnam. Was a door gunner and

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Speaker 1: has PTSD from you know, his time and two tours

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Speaker 1: in Vietnam. So you know, he has his issues. But

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Speaker 1: I never questioned where my brother and I stand with

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Speaker 1: him as unconditionally loved.

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Speaker 2: So Mom work out of the home, or she's saying.

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Speaker 1: He was older adult school exercise instructor. So she'd go

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Speaker 1: down and do teaching the aerobics and physical fitness and

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Speaker 1: wellness to folks in nursing homes. It's what everybody did

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Speaker 1: in the eighties or so. Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like mom.

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Speaker 1: Kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There was once or twice where I'd walk into the

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Speaker 1: kitchen and she'd be rocking out playing put in a

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Speaker 1: cassette tape together for the class, and I was just like, Mom,

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Speaker 1: I have friends. I want to keep those friends for

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Speaker 1: a living. He's a material scientist. What does that mean?

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Speaker 1: So he Yeah, he is an interesting story. So I

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Speaker 1: mean he went he was he got kicked out of

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Speaker 1: all the schools he went to in middle school, high school,

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Speaker 1: went to war, came back, worked at gas stations for year.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with that. But he was just like,

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Speaker 1: there's something more for me, you know. And he started

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Speaker 1: taking a class at a time at a community college

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Speaker 1: and had a teacher there who recognized his potential in

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Speaker 1: the math and sciences. Took another class another class, ended

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Speaker 1: up transferring to Berkeley than Mit became a pop scientist

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Speaker 1: in his field, and so he does work on Smart Dude,

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Speaker 1: Smart Guy a lot. That was the phrase Talent is universal,

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Speaker 1: opportunity is not. You know, that was kind of his thing.

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Speaker 1: So he was most recently he just retired, but he

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Speaker 1: was working at a medical device company for quite a

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Speaker 1: few years looking at the corrosive properties of the stints

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Speaker 1: kind of go into your heart, make sure that that

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Speaker 1: doesn't corrode and cause issues later on.

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Speaker 2: So what a neat story for him? Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 2: some gas station guy. To that guy, the point is

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Speaker 2: Livermore mom not making a ton of money, but living

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Speaker 2: her best life, being a great mom, dad doing what

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Speaker 2: he's doing. You're a normal guy, kind of grew up

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Speaker 2: in an idyllic Robby on this podcast versus A Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean that's it. But the point is establishing kind

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Speaker 2: of nothing overly remarkable, just.

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Speaker 1: The most remarkable thing. Maybe my childhood was the relative freedom,

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Speaker 1: but still with like respecting rules and constraints on that.

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Speaker 1: So the example, you know, I think we were talking

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Speaker 1: before the show that we share a faith. You know,

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Speaker 1: when I was I wasn't raised religious, and when I

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Speaker 1: was twelve, I felt like someone was missing in my

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Speaker 1: life besides puberty, and I asked my mom and dad

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Speaker 1: if we could start going to local churches and through

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Speaker 1: that process we all got baptized. That's cool and just

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Speaker 1: that encouragement of a twelve year old say yeah, you

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Speaker 1: want to explore that, we're going to do that, and

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Speaker 1: then you know, my dad and brother and I all

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Speaker 1: getting baptized through that process, right.

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Speaker 2: No kidding? Yeah, So you know there's that kind of

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Speaker 2: is remarkable. But again, it's not like you were ordained

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Speaker 2: to go do something in the world. You just grew

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Speaker 2: up a.

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Speaker 1: Life, live in my life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so everybody Kevin fer Adler is the last time

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Speaker 2: I was saying that, it's just Kevin is the founder

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Speaker 2: of Miracle Messages. Living in Salcilito, San Francisco area. You know,

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Speaker 2: your bio says your award winning social entrepreneur and the

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Speaker 2: founder of Miracle Messages, which we'll get into social entrepreneurship

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Speaker 2: here in a minute. His work is with the homelessness

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Speaker 2: and relational poverty. He's been featured in The New York Times,

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Speaker 2: the Washington Post, the PBS News Hour, Los Angeles Times, CNN,

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Speaker 2: a billboard on Tom Square which we also share that

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Speaker 2: and in his ted talk and his groundbreaking book. When

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Speaker 2: we walk by forgotten humanity, broken systems, and the role

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Speaker 2: we can each play in ending homelessness in America. He

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Speaker 2: talks constantly about what he's spent many of the last

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Speaker 2: years of his life learning, and that's what we're going

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Speaker 2: to dive down into. But I was afraid if I

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Speaker 2: read all that first before explaining where you came from,

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Speaker 2: people would think, oh, he's a big wig. And the

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Speaker 2: truth is, he's just a guy who found a passion

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Speaker 2: and who ripped over an idea one time, which we're

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Speaker 2: going to explain, and it's led to all of this,

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Speaker 2: but much much more so and all those there's a

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Speaker 2: difference between I think resume items and eulogy virtues and

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Speaker 2: all that.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's the resume side. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: define myself more by how I try to, you know,

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Speaker 1: live my life and show up for people. And that's

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Speaker 1: what I call, like more the eulogy virtue side of things.

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Speaker 1: So I can I can rewrite that and yeah, I

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Speaker 1: get that completely. Yeah, yeah, So tell me about Uncle Mark.

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Speaker 1: So Uncle Mark was my favorite member of my extended family.

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Speaker 1: This guy come over for Thanksgiving, Christmas. He's my dad's

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Speaker 1: younger brother. He grew up with a lot of the

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Speaker 1: same traumas and issues at home that my dad faced.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately, you know, he never was able to get

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Speaker 1: on his own two feet. You know, got schizoph game

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Speaker 1: schizophrenic kind of his late teens, early twenties, yours of

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Speaker 1: drug use, of a lot of you know, harmful behavior,

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Speaker 1: and he spent thirty years of his life living on

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Speaker 1: and off the streets of Santa Cruz, California. So he

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Speaker 1: ended up passing away when I was in college. He

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Speaker 1: was fifty years old, which I found out later is

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Speaker 1: about the average life expectancy person who's on how's chronically

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Speaker 1: almost But Mark, every year he was on the streets,

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Speaker 1: he never missed a birthday sending me a birthday card.

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Speaker 1: You always just sign uncle Mark. We come over. We'd

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Speaker 1: have long, elaborate conversations on our shared love of super Britos.

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Speaker 1: What are you going to tell you it's twelve fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old. Talk to him, my schizophrenic uncle. What do

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Speaker 1: you like about the burrito? I love them Brito like

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Speaker 1: me too, Mark, We got that right deep into the breed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'd have these, you know, fun conversations, and you know,

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Speaker 1: and then he he'd leave from you know, Thanksgiving, Christmas,

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Speaker 1: my dad would drop him off at the Greyhound station

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Speaker 1: or drive him back to if you're staying in a

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Speaker 1: transitional housing unit in Santa Cruz. And then months would

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Speaker 1: go by. We wouldn't hear from him, you know, and

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Speaker 1: my dad will said, if that collect phone call comes in,

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Speaker 1: and remember what those were like, you know, answer that,

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Speaker 1: make sure you accept it. And we'd hear from him

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Speaker 1: from time to time, and then he disappear. And then

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Speaker 1: one day, yeah, I was in college, I was got

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Speaker 1: a phone call from my dad crying. He said, you know,

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Speaker 1: my whole Mark had been found deceeized. So it's his

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Speaker 1: not not just the time I spent with Mark, but

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Speaker 1: the time I didn't spend with that kind of got

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Speaker 1: me on this journey.

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Speaker 2: So obviously that's a that's a huge pivot point and

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Speaker 2: the trajectory of your life, that experience that love or

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Speaker 2: let's just be candid, a holmost schizophrenic man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the kicker for me that that kind of

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Speaker 1: pulled it together as that turning point is I never

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Speaker 1: thought of him as a homeless man. He was your uncle,

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Speaker 1: He's my uncle. You don't, you know, categorize people that way.

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Speaker 2: Right, not in your own family, not in your own family,

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Speaker 2: but you do and everybody else is.

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Speaker 1: Why my shirt says everyone is someone somebody I was

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Speaker 1: sitting and so I went to his funeral service, and

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Speaker 1: you know, that was the last time I was at

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Speaker 1: the gravesite. A few years go by, my dad and

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Speaker 1: I are having Thanksgiving a dinner at a neighbor family's

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Speaker 1: house not too far from Santa CRUs. We got some

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Speaker 1: time before the meal was ready, so we go down

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Speaker 1: to the gravesite. We sit there and we had one

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Speaker 1: of those like father son conversations that just want your

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Speaker 1: entire life right, about who his younger brother was, what

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Speaker 1: his childhood was, like, you know, all these all the

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Speaker 1: things that appear only in the dash on that gravestone.

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Speaker 1: We had the conversation what happened in that dash? And

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Speaker 1: you know, I was just floored and heard these stories.

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Speaker 1: And then I get back in my car, you know,

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Speaker 1: sitting there, my Dad's driving home, and I just start

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Speaker 1: absent mindingly, you know, pull out my phone, start scrolling

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Speaker 1: on social media, and I'm like, wait a second, I

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Speaker 1: am learning more about my random acquaintances classmates middle school

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Speaker 1: on social media than I did about my own uncle,

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Speaker 1: if my dad wasn't there at his gravesite, like I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't know any of this just from the the tombstone.

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Speaker 1: And so I h I got this question in my

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Speaker 1: heart just kind of sat with me for a while,

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Speaker 1: which was, how would Jesus use a smartphone? How would

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Speaker 1: Jesus use a smart How would Jesus use a smartphone?

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Speaker 1: Or social media? Right? Because I was like, I like

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Speaker 1: these cat videos. I like these selfies just the same

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Speaker 1: as everyone else.

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Speaker 2: But I wonder if he would have liked GPS the

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Speaker 2: road to Nazareth and recognize there's a lot of.

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Speaker 3: Traffic concerns of robbers up ahead.

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Speaker 2: There's parts of the road that are washed out, and

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Speaker 2: maybe take an alternate route right.

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Speaker 1: And then he's he's quickly texting his disciples and they're

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Speaker 1: not responding, are off and it's like, what's going on, guys,

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Speaker 1: It's a mess. We might need to.

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Speaker 2: Head down somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's it's it's it's a fun thought

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Speaker 1: experiment to kind of sit with, like these technologies, like

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Speaker 1: how would Jesus use this? And so my response to

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Speaker 1: it was, gosh, everyone, I'm walking by in San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: I'm not seeing them as some kids beloved uncle or aunt, right,

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Speaker 1: I see them as problems to solve, not people to love.

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Speaker 1: And so I basically spend a year where I invited

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Speaker 1: twenty four individuals experiencing homelessness to wear GoPro cameras around

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Speaker 1: their chests and narrate their experience of what life is

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Speaker 1: like on the streets.

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Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first,

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Speaker 2: we're thinking about launching a few local chapters of the

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Speaker 2: Army this year. To dive more into it, check out

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Speaker 2: our recent shop Talk episode titled experimenting with local Chapters.

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Speaker 2: And if you're interested in potentially leading a chapter in

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Speaker 2: your community, email Army at normal Folks dot us and

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Speaker 2: Alex would love to connect with you.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back.

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Speaker 2: You got twenty four folks living on the streets, and

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Speaker 2: you're putting go pros.

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Speaker 1: On them about an hour or two out of time,

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Speaker 1: and you know they're they're joining me as homeless autobiographers, right,

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Speaker 1: So it's not like I'm strapping at they're sleeping, right,

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Speaker 1: they're participating. Well, what reason are they agreeing to do this?

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Speaker 1: For you? The question I put forward was what do

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Speaker 1: you wish people like me knew that.

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Speaker 2: We don't about your existence.

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Speaker 1: About you, about how you see the world and what's

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Speaker 1: going on. Okay, what'd you find out? I'll bite, I'll

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Speaker 1: bite yeh. Share some of the videos with you if

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Speaker 1: you want.

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Speaker 2: Actually, could we put some up on our yea, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: we need to do that. Yeah, talk about if you're

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Speaker 2: okay with they're going to meet Adam for the first

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Speaker 2: time before you watch the videos. Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but hold it seriously, can we get some of those

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Speaker 2: throw them up on our stuff?

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Speaker 1: I think we need to do. I got some good videos.

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Speaker 1: That's good. Okay. So all right, So I was told

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Speaker 1: I had a little earpiece, you know, from the from

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Speaker 1: the producer there. Yeah, so so he told you about

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Speaker 1: Yeah you did? Yeah you did you hire him for?

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Speaker 1: Because actually, a listener I haven't responded yet.

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Speaker 2: It's a universal, it's a preview.

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Speaker 1: So yesterday a listener emailed us and they said, Bill

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Speaker 1: on taking away points from you because of how mean

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Speaker 1: you are to Alex.

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Speaker 2: You were raised better than that. They have no idea.

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Speaker 2: People have no idea that stuff I put up with

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Speaker 2: off microphone and off camera. So you know, that's only

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Speaker 2: half the story. Everybody, Bill, You've changed that man, that

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Speaker 2: listener's heart in that moment, I could feel it.

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Speaker 1: I could feel it.

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Speaker 2: Listen, you're not part of the show. Please go ahead,

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Speaker 2: so ignore the man in the corner.

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Speaker 1: Do you have the curtain you know? Like oz Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's right, yeah, pull it back there. I'm down with that.

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Speaker 1: The first time that I was meeting one of the

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Speaker 1: individuals who's going to wear the cameras and named Adam,

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Speaker 1: and I'll share this, I'm not proud of this. But

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Speaker 1: as I started approaching this individual who I met through

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Speaker 1: a mutual friend, like this is, I'm so nervous. Right,

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Speaker 1: the whole thing's weird, right, I've got these donated go

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Speaker 1: pro cameras. I'm meeting this guy in broad daylight in

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Speaker 1: the Castro District downtown San Francisco. And instinctively, as I'm

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Speaker 1: approaching Adam, I reached my hand into my pocket and

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Speaker 1: I grab my keys and start fiddling with them and

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Speaker 1: grab them as a weapon as I approached this person.

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Speaker 1: I've never done that before or since. You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: a six foot two guy. I'm generally pretty confident walking

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Speaker 1: around the streets. That's where I started. I didn't know,

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Speaker 1: if this guy was going to lunge at me, if

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Speaker 1: he's you know, mentally like right, the whole thing. So

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Speaker 1: that's where I started on this issue. You know, quickly

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Speaker 1: realize this guy's pretty normal. Guys had some tough circumstances, right,

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Speaker 1: And we start having this conversation. He says, yeah, I'll

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Speaker 1: wear the camera for you and I want to participate,

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Speaker 1: and he will, I'll share his videos so you'll be

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Speaker 1: able to put that up. So I'm watching, you know,

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Speaker 1: these videos that are coming in and it's pretty heartbreaking.

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Speaker 1: And the two things that really stoock out to me.

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Speaker 1: So first, you'd often see a kid walk by. The

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Speaker 1: kid never just walks by. The kid always points at

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Speaker 1: the person stairs, Mom, dad, why is that man on

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Speaker 1: the streets? You know? Can we have them live with us?

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Speaker 1: Like whatever it is? And half the time you'd see

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Speaker 1: the parent kind of scold the kid or say, oh

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Speaker 1: that's im play, don't do that, and then pull them back.

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Speaker 1: The other half the time, the kid is almost like

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Speaker 1: guides the parent to go talk to the person and

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Speaker 1: they have a conversation, right, And they have this interaction.

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Speaker 1: And I've always thought, which of those kids is going

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Speaker 1: to twenty years later, be a little bit more trusting

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Speaker 1: and open as an adults. And what have we forgotten

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Speaker 1: it that we knew almost instinctive for those children, so basic,

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Speaker 1: right and wrong. The other piece that stuck out is

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Speaker 1: every single time you'd see a person experiencing homelessness on

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Speaker 1: the camera, they'd start sharing stories of some loved family member, friend, classmate,

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Speaker 1: former girlfriend, former boyfriend. Often the person was no longer

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Speaker 1: in their life, but they still you know, they're talking

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Speaker 1: about somebody else. And you know, in listening to this

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Speaker 1: over and over again, I just started thinking, gosh, you know, like,

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Speaker 1: what what do those relationships look like? And in one

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Speaker 1: clip I heard sign that changed my life. The guy said,

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Speaker 1: I never realized I was homeless when I lost my housing,

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Speaker 1: only when I lost my family and friends.

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Speaker 2: Home is where the heart is.

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Speaker 1: It's not the structure four walls and a roof that's

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Speaker 1: a house. A house. That doesn't make a house a home, right.

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Speaker 1: And as I started digging into this concept that I've

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Speaker 1: come to call relational poverty as an overlooked form of poverty,

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Speaker 1: it turns out about one in three people who are

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Speaker 1: experiencing homelessness attribute the immediate cause of how they ended

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Speaker 1: up on the streets or in a shelter to some

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Speaker 1: sort of relational breakdown or brokenness, death in the family, argument,

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Speaker 1: a divorce, a suicide, a domestic violence situation where it's

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Speaker 1: not safe to stay with the love one, but some

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Speaker 1: kind of falling out, something that happens. And so I

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Speaker 1: got it on my heart. Gosh, maybe you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: just a normal guy. I'm just gonna walk down the

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Speaker 1: street go hope to everyone I see who's visibly homeless

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Speaker 1: and say I do you have any family you want

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Speaker 1: to reconnect to for the holidays. Okay, so that's weird. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is weird.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's interesting. Yeah, you know, I can't I

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Speaker 2: can't help but say this. As I listen to you,

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Speaker 2: we might need to redefine vocabulary. I think there's maybe

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Speaker 2: houselessness and homelessness.

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Speaker 1: Say, homelessness is often seen as a binary, and it's

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Speaker 1: really more of a spectrum.

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Speaker 2: That's what I mean when I say that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you got folks, you have one hundred people

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Speaker 1: who are on house. You got a hundred stories and

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Speaker 1: reasons and context of why they're on housed and what

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Speaker 1: the challenges are. And it's often never just one thing.

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Speaker 1: So even with that family friend, social support, there probably

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Speaker 1: was some form of tremendous you know, job loss, health issue,

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Speaker 1: housing insecurity, being evicted, and then you're doubled up or

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Speaker 1: you're tripled up rarely, but it's that relational thing that

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Speaker 1: ends up being the kind of a straw that breaks

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Speaker 1: the camel's back. But it's never just one thing.

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Speaker 2: What does your We're going to get to that first person. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but as a further background, Yeah, what percent have you

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Speaker 2: found among the population of these folks have a mental illness.

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Speaker 1: Here's how I'd say this. What we see as the

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Speaker 1: physical manifestation of homelessness is actually not the majority of

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Speaker 1: people experiencing homelessness. Most people who are experiencing homelessness, they're

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Speaker 1: doing whatever they can to hide the fact that they're

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Speaker 1: experiencing homelessness. They don't want anyone to know it. So

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Speaker 1: it's there's a kind of confirmation bias that happens. As

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Speaker 1: we say, we're going down the street and that person's

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Speaker 1: screen at the top of their lungs to no one

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Speaker 1: in particular. Okay, that person's got some serious mental health issues.

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Speaker 1: They're probably experiencing homelessness, But for every one individual we

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Speaker 1: see like that, there's another three or four that we're

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Speaker 1: not seen. So maybe twenty twenty five hours.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my question is and I've always thought about this.

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Speaker 2: Now this is before I met you, read your background

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Speaker 2: or anything else. But I live in midtown Memphis. My

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Speaker 2: business is in north of downtown, so I am in urban.

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Speaker 2: My world is urban. As a result, I see folks

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Speaker 2: experiencing homelessness to and from work and in everything I do,

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Speaker 2: because I'm in a city of a major metropolitan area

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Speaker 2: of a couple of million people. And You're going to

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Speaker 2: see that. Yeah, right, And look, I hate generalizations and

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Speaker 2: judging books by the cover, but there are people you

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Speaker 2: know are suffering from a illness that are also homeless,

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Speaker 2: right often one? Or did the mental illness precede the

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Speaker 2: homelessness or did the mental illness come as a result

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Speaker 2: of the homelessness. I always wonder of that population the

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Speaker 2: chicken or the egg, and I just because if I

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Speaker 2: was on the street, dirty, stinky, nowhere to go, hopeless

432
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 2: as hell, and everything else, I could see how that

433
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 2: could develop mental illness. But I can also see the

434
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 2: way the systems are, especially in foster care and some

435
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 2: other things. Many people age out of protective systems, have

436
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 2: nowhere to go and are dealing with mental health issues

437
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: and end up homeless. So I think it's I think

438
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 2: there's both. But have you experienced people that you think,

439
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 2: you know, I think this mental illness as a result

440
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 2: of the homelessness. It wasn't what started the homelessness. Football

441
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 2: doesn't urt build character. Football reviews character.

442
00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: Okay, so you just quoted me. That's weird. Homelessness reveals

443
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: all the things that are broken in our society.

444
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 2: You want to talk about it, get the metaphor, so

445
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 2: go ahead and talk on that.

446
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: Foster care. One out of three kids who age out

447
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: of foster care will experience homelessness by the time they're

448
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: twenty six years old. For black kids, that's sixty percent.

449
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: Sixty percent will experience homelessness for no fault of their

450
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: own because they have age out of foster care. We

451
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: have over three thousand counties in the United States. There's

452
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: not a single county or someone who's working full time

453
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: at the federal minimum wage can afford the fair market

454
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: value of a two bedroom apartment, and less than one

455
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 1: percent of counties where that same hard working person full

456
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: time working can afford a one bedroom apartment at minimum

457
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: at minimum wage, right, So homelessness at its core is

458
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: a housing problem. There's plenty of other countries in the

459
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: world with lots of folks who have mental health issues

460
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: and substance abuses that does not have the homelessness problems

461
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 1: that we have throughout the United States, And even within

462
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 1: the US we look at it, state like say West Virginia,

463
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: where they have plenty of folks who have substance abuse

464
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: issues mental health issues, don't have nearly the rates of

465
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 1: homelessness as some of the coastal cities. Well why is

466
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: that cost of housing is a lot cheap, so at

467
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: the end of the day, we don't have it's a

468
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: game of musical chairs. Don't have enough chairs for everybody.

469
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: Some people are going to be sitting on their butts literally,

470
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: And when that happens as a society, as a choice

471
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: that we've made from policies, then you have a whole

472
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 1: host of other issues that can conflate, exacerbate, and as

473
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: your point, Bill can be both causes of homelessness as

474
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: well as effects of homelessness. And for many people it

475
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: is an effect, you know, and we're talking about the

476
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: systems kind of the you know, the governments and the

477
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: policies and the whole thing. The whole other piece that

478
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: I talk about in my book is around the human systems. Right,

479
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: we have this notion of rugged individualism, right, self made man,

480
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: self made woman. Well, if that's true, like to its extreme,

481
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: let's just say that is the priority above everything else.

482
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: That is our one truth. You can pull yourself up

483
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: by our bootstraps. And if you don't, does that mean

484
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: you are deservedly poor or deservedly homeless? Right? And I

485
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: think most people would say, well, no, you know, people

486
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: got bad luck, bad circumstances. But what we discount is

487
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: all the people who have helped us get to where

488
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: we're at at different key moments in our lives, as

489
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: well as access and access absolutely in those resources.

490
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 2: Former Governor of California Arnold Schwarzenegger has an interesting take

491
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: on being a self made guy.

492
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: You read that quote, Yeah, yeah, I can in the voice,

493
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: or no, it's horrible in the voice.

494
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 2: If you could do it in the voice.

495
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: It's a really good kid. I mean I can't, but

496
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: I'll do it anyway. So you know, you can call

497
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: me Arnold, You can call me Schwatzi. You can call

498
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: me the Terminada whatever ever you do. Don't you ever

499
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: ever call me a self made man.

500
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 2: Okay, First of all, that was actually really good.

501
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to watch it back. But why don't

502
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 1: you tell me why he says? He says, because for

503
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: every you know, success I've had in politics and business,

504
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: as a bodybuilder, as an actor, I've had coaches, mentors,

505
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: people who believed in me, gave me a chance, you know,

506
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: opened the door to me. Social capital is really what

507
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: he was talking about. So here we got the last

508
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: action hero telling us who's often held up as this

509
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: paragon of you know, the immigrant success story self made man.

510
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: He's like, don't call me that's an offense to everyone

511
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: who's helped me get to where I'm at.

512
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 2: It really illustrates an interesting level of humility from a

513
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,719
Speaker 2: guy who we think is full of another when you

514
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: go the same guy that says girly men with speaking

515
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 2: of people that he doesn't like. But the point is,

516
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: that's an interesting take. I don't have to agree on

517
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: everything he does. I think I appreciate his words there. Yeah,

518
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: I think he's dead right on. Yeah, we'll be right back.

519
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: Okay.

520
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: So with that backdrop, which I think is really good

521
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 2: back film. You need a guy. I walk down the

522
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: streets because I'm just a normal guy, and normal people

523
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 2: just walk down the streets on Christmas Eve, going up to.

524
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: Every person who's on house and saying, do you have

525
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: many fans? We are friends. You'd like to reconnect.

526
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: But your uncle kind of set you down a path

527
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: in your brain, and you were following it.

528
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: I think in your heart. I started not wanting to

529
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: change the world, not wanting to do this whole. It

530
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: is so nice for somebody self interest rightly understood, because

531
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: I felt like I was my own humanity, my own

532
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: empathy was being undermined by the fact that I saw

533
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: these people as those people rather than my neighbors. Really,

534
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: I just got tired of walking by.

535
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 2: I use it my speech all the time and quotes

536
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 2: these people, What do you mean these people? Yeah, you're weep, that's.

537
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: I know, all right? All right.

538
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 2: So I'm walking down the street and I meet a

539
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 2: man named Jeffrey, And at first you know, this guy's

540
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 2: got in a bottle this is water.

541
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: But he's got a bottle of not water sitting at

542
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: his side, and fowerwater. He's firewater, and he's talking to himself,

543
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: and I'm like, this is the last guy who I

544
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: should be sitting down talking to, right, I have a

545
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: good resume. I went, what am I doing right with

546
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: the thing? And I walked by him. I walk by

547
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: him and I go back and I sit down next

548
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,959
Speaker 1: to Jeffrey and I say, I asked him all these

549
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: questions and he's just out of it, not talking, you know,

550
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: not talking to me. He's just talking to whoever. And

551
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: finally I say, well, you know, I'm about to leave,

552
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: about to step away, and you know, kind of keep

553
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: my keep my walk going. And then I say, you know,

554
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: I got to ask him this question. So I say, Jeffrey,

555
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: do you have any family or friends you want to

556
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: reconnect to? And for the first time, he looks me

557
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: right in the eye. He says, I haven't seen my

558
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: family a long time, my dad, Harold, my niece and nephew,

559
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: my sister Jennifer. Yeah, if you could help me reconnect

560
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: to them, that'd be great. It's like this Awakenings moment

561
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: if you ever saw that the film, Right, it's just

562
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: this level of lucidity. I wasn't expecting. And we have

563
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: started having this conversation, and so I asked him. He said, Jeffrey,

564
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: you know, I'm walking around today inviting folks to record

565
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: messages to their family for the holidays. Here a few

566
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: days from Christmas twenty fourteen, and would you like to

567
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: record a message to your piece and nephew, your sister

568
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: and your dad. And said, yes, I would pull out

569
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: my phone, hit record, and I can share that video

570
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: with you as well. But he records a video to

571
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: his family.

572
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: So I go home that night he saysah paraphrase, he says,

573
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: he mentions all the people I just mentioned. He said,

574
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 2: I intend to come home and see you again someday

575
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 2: if I can.

576
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: And that's about it. What are we going further?

577
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 2: I gotta believe people are listening to this asking this question,

578
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 2: because I'm asking it. If you have family that you

579
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: love and that loves you, I sit on the street. Yeah,

580
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 2: and even maybe more stark, candid, and even maybe a

581
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: harder question, why are those people society and taxpayers problems

582
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 2: family who have them? Which is a hard question. There's

583
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 2: a lot in that question too, There's a lot in

584
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: the English. So let's unpack it a little bit. For

585
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: every one person that San Francisco gets housed, another three

586
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 2: people fall into homelessness. So and some would argue though

587
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 2: that they aren't falling into homeless from San Francisco, but

588
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,239
Speaker 2: they're shipping in because they know that San Francisco cares more.

589
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: That's true for a relatively small percentage of.

590
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 2: Folks that just because I'm not doing that job if

591
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 2: I do, Yeah, sure, point that others do make.

592
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. The research has shown that in California, about seventy percent,

593
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: seventy to eighty percent of those who are unhoused in

594
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: California were previously housed in California.

595
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: And you can kind of go, there's some that are

596
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: seeking yep, whatever The state.

597
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: Has services, whether all the things that people assume, but

598
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: a lot of it it's a homegrown thing. People were

599
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: county before, they're almost in Yeah. Yeah, and I think

600
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 1: with the family. So there's three reasons that I've heard

601
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: over a thousand people experiencing homelessness. Now I have offered

602
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: this service to for three reasons over and over again.

603
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 1: And why folks are disconnected? So first, digital literacy, digital access,

604
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: so phones get lost and stolen, a number changes, people move,

605
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: You call, no one answers did they not want to

606
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: talk to me, right, and the mind can wander. The

607
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: second reason is there's bureaucratic barriers. So under HIPPA in

608
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: the United States, you know, it's like health and privacy,

609
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: trying to make it so homelessness is protected. You don't

610
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: have to reveal that to everyone and their mother, right.

611
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: But shelters, I've gotten so terrified of being sued for

612
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 1: HIPPO violations that they will refuse to confirm or deny

613
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: whether someone's out of a city, or even relay a message.

614
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: So when you go to a shelter, look at the

615
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,959
Speaker 1: bulletin board as you walk in. It's filled with missing

616
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: person flyers. A family is looking for people wanting to reconnect,

617
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: but people are like, we can't tell you whether they're

618
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: here or not. You have to kind of do that

619
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: at very informal. But the biggest reason, by far is

620
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: the emotional barriers of shame. Right.

621
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 2: I mean we because that's what I anticipated you to say,

622
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 2: but I didn't. I wondered if you don't want We

623
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 2: don't want to be a burden. We don't want to

624
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 2: hurt the people we love. There's a woman I featured

625
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: in the book who was in in jail. She had

626
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,399
Speaker 2: some substance issues, I mean the whole thing. Right, she's

627
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 2: in prison.

628
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: She gets a letter from her daughter, asn't talked to

629
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 1: her daughter in like fifteen twenty years. It says, Mom,

630
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: we you know, I found you. I've been looking for

631
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: you for years. We have a place, you know, we

632
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: got some land, We got a place for you. Please

633
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 1: come live with us. She never responded to that letter.

634
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: She's a shit, she.

635
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 2: Said, a mother at my age should be taking care

636
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 2: of her daughter, not the other way around. She just

637
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 2: never responded. They ended up reconnecting later. We helped them,

638
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: but but still, that shame is one of the bears.

639
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: You know.

640
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 1: Want to be a burden. You know, I want to

641
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 1: be a burden.

642
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 2: So all right, so Bro said, I got my sister,

643
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 2: my cousins, and my dad.

644
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: I think we record the video. Go online and do

645
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: an online search. Get in on Facebook and found a

646
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: Facebook group connected to his hometown. Now you know you're

647
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: from Monteursville if dot dot dot inside knowledge this restaurant,

648
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: and now you remember mister so and so from the school,

649
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: and posted the video there with a short note anybody

650
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: know this because anyone know this guy? Right, here's his

651
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: name here, he's looking to her. Why not? And I

652
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: put it out there. They know what to expect and

653
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 1: and and I'll share it just because I was told

654
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: by you know, the producer is here, be vulnerable, said,

655
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: be be vulnerable. That's what normal people do. It's like,

656
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: all right, Well, my vulnerable moment here is that I

657
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 1: just sat on that video for about a week before

658
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: doing anything. Really, Yeah, because I didn't know if I

659
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: could trust the guy. Yeah, I didn't want to get involved.

660
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,959
Speaker 1: What's the backstory here? The whole thing right, yelling rape?

661
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: It's just a homeless guy. I didn't know what was

662
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 1: going on, right, I didn't know what was going on,

663
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: and so I after a week of sitting on it,

664
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: it's just like, burn into my pocket, find the group,

665
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: post it there. Within one hour, that video goes viral.

666
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: It makes the local news that night as the leading

667
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: story in wherever villas. This is a real place on Toursville, Pennsylvania. Yeah,

668
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: that place. Classmates start commenting in the posts and saying, hey,

669
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: I went to high school with Jeffrey. I work in construction.

670
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: Does he need a job? I work at the congressman's office.

671
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: Does he need healthcare? The town came together and race

672
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: over five thousand dollars to try to bring him home.

673
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,919
Speaker 1: We got on the phone the next day with jennifer sister.

674
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: She got tagged in the post. In the first twenty minutes,

675
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: she tells me Jeffrey has been a missing person for

676
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 1: twelve years. Broad Daylight downtown San Francisco a few days

677
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: before Christmas, and so we were able to get them reconnected,

678
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: first on a phone call and then they reconnected in person.

679
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: A few months later. Jennifer got on a train across

680
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: the country she was afraid of flyne gone on a

681
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: four day trained from Pennsylvania and saw her brother for

682
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: the first time in twenty two years. So does this

683
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: immediately solve Jeffrey's homelessness? Is you know the Blue Skies,

684
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: everything's peachy punky door. No, like he had in his case,

685
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 1: had some of those underlying mental health issues, addiction issues,

686
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: and unfortunately he never accepted the help that was offered.

687
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: It's just two in the throes of the addiction, it

688
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: wasn't okay to travel, and he ended up dying on

689
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,760
Speaker 1: the streets a few years later. So you almost think, well, gosh,

690
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: is that a good story to.

691
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 2: It's a great story. And I'm that's a great story.

692
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 2: His family didn't think of him as missing anymore. They

693
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: had answers or whatever Jeffrey was experiencing living on the streets. Clearly,

694
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 2: as you've stated, the connection to family still mattered to

695
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 2: him because it was the only thing that he really

696
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 2: mentioned to you, and in his desperate life, he at

697
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 2: least got to know that he was loved.

698
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,919
Speaker 1: That's what Jennifer told me. Almost verbade him so right, Yeah, yeah,

699
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: because I almost after he passed away, I'm like, I'm

700
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: sorry we were in you know, this was years later.

701
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 1: We had all these reunions, some got off the streets

702
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: and now living with family. Oh, we're going to get

703
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: into that. Yeah. But and I was like, i feel

704
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: like I failed you, Jennifer, I'm sorry this never worked out.

705
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: She's like, are you kidding me? Like the closure that

706
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: we got, the kids got a chance to have an

707
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: interaction with her uncle. They I didn't even know he

708
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 1: knew their names. And we have a video of him

709
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: recording a message to Josh and Rachel, right and just

710
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 1: means so much to us. And yeah, he never was

711
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: able to beat that devil on his shoulder. But he

712
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: knew that we were there and they You know, I

713
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: always thought with my uncle, would this work have been

714
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: appropriate for him? And the answer I've come to Bill

715
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: the best I can think of, is it depends on

716
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 1: the day. Some days work good days sure, offered to

717
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: other days not good days, fully inappropriate, no informed consent,

718
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: no ability to have this conversation. But whether it was

719
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:40,479
Speaker 1: a good day or a bad day for Uncle Mark,

720
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: I'd like to think that we as a society would say,

721
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 1: here's the services of the doors open. It's up to

722
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: you if you want to walk through it.

723
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 2: There and that concludes Part one of my conversation with

724
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 2: Kevin Appler, and guys, you do not want to miss

725
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 2: part two that's now available to listen to him together. Guys,

726
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 2: we can change this country, but it starts with you.

727
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 2: I'll see in part too,