WEBVTT - 118: 364 1/2 Days (with Hannah Giorgis) 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.800 It's eleven thirty eight pm at a Sicilian castle and 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:18.360 you're listening to Nightcall. Hello, and welcome to Nightcall, a 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.759 college show about our dystopian reality. My name is Emily Yoshida. 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:25.319 I am in Los Angeles and with me on the 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:31.080 other line are Molly Lambert and Tess Lynch. Hi, guys, Hey, y'all. 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:34.000 We are going to be joined later in the show 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.720 by Hannah. George is from the Atlantic to talk about 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:40.720 the Polish sex drama that is taking the Internet by 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:44.880 storm through it in sixty five days. But first let's 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:47.519 take a night email test. You want to read it. 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:51.280 I would love to hello Nightcall. As I prefer to 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.320 remain anonymous, I won't reveal my name or the venue 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:56.480 where I work, but I can say that the measures 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.320 taken to protect the staff are next to non existent, 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:02.720 so distancing is not enforced, and one of my managers 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.960 were as an N ninety five mask against company policy No. Less, 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.240 which facilitates his breathing, but as you can surmise, does 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:13.240 nothing to prevent a potential asymptomatic spread of the novel coronavirus. 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.199 While everyone is required to wear face masks and wash 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:20.120 their hands, the only social distancing is between guests. As 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:22.320 we were returning, one of the higher ups had tried 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.759 to convince us, rather poorly that any leaked candid images, 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.400 which was achieved through a certain vantage point where people 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.440 looked clustered. But we're standing far apart working here. I 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.399 can honestly say the space situation is like sardines in 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.919 a can. I don't begrudge working hard for a living, 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.720 but I find myself disgusted with how little care is 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.559 being provided for the staff. And and we should say, 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:46.399 like this person, um. We won't say where they work specifically, 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.560 but it is like it's a theme park, it's an attraction, 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:53.120 which you know. Obviously a lot of them are back 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:55.080 up and running. I think probably a lot of them 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.160 never closed in the first place. I believe they they 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:01.200 all did close because they had you UM And this 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:03.640 is the first time, just because I follow a bunch 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:08.720 of theme park enthusiasts Instagram's um and there's like a 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.960 real schism because there are some people that are like 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:17.040 traveling to theme parks. UM and the workers have been 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.440 posting about a lot, but they're also afraid of retaliation 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:22.919 from the companies they work for, which is why we're 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:25.280 not going to name any companies that anybody works for. 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:28.560 If you call in and tell us about your experience, 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.480 we will keep you totally anonymous. But we would love 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:33.320 to hear more from people that are going back to 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:40.200 work under COVID and uh seeing the sort of chaotic situation, 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.800 because it doesn't seem like anybody has a plan that 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.840 is going to work, like the right and all the 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:52.360 safeguards feel completely um, patchwork and not at all cohesive. 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.160 I mean even in Japan they reopened a theme parks. 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:56.760 This is like a big thing that was going around 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.480 Twitter today that I sent to you guys, and um, 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:03.280 they were asking guests to refrain from screaming on rights 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:08.680 because you know, screaming exerting your vocal cords creates more droplets, 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:12.079 uh and spreads the disease war and I believe their 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.840 their their advice to guess was please scream inside your heart, 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:21.360 which is um, yeah, note taken the slogan of the year, 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.920 already doing it. But yeah, so it's just like stuff 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.000 like that, like at a certain points, like well, why 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.160 go on a ride that like screaming on a ride 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.200 is more or less involuntary. It's like laughing at a 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.960 funny joke. Um so why put yourself in a position 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.200 where there's a high likelihood that you would be screaming 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:45.080 like why do all this these gymnastics to be like, 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:46.640 oh no, you can do it as long as you 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.760 don't have the most reasonable reaction to the thing you're doing. 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:54.280 They're all doing insane backbends to try and you know, 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.960 have a reason to be reopening to make money. It's 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:01.680 all like Joe else said last week, it's all Jaws, 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:07.400 it's all Drassic Park. Um. And they must think the 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.040 profit margins are worth it, you know, they must think 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.800 the bad press isn't gonna overwhelm the influx of cash. 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.080 And as we saw a lot of these big companies 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.920 also got bailed out. So it's all pretty gross. Do 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:26.760 you guys see twenty one pilots got PPP loans like 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:31.200 like I guess as a band the stewary and money. 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:35.839 Um so I haven't gotten anything yet, but if twenty 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.560 one pilots can do it, I don't think we've talked 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:40.680 about it on the show yet, but just to have 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:47.480 a mini sports uh sports call nightball segment the NBA 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:52.800 reopening that they're trying to do um around Disney World 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:57.800 seems like extremely fraught and like everything is already going 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.640 wrong and they're still going forward with it because that's 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:06.600 how badly they don't want to lose profits on sports capitalism. 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:10.279 And it's it's just wild to see all these companies 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.560 and industries pouring all this money. I mean the bubble, 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.320 the NBA bubble, you know, as jankie as it looks 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.640 and as unwise as it looks from here, it can't 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.120 be cheap. Like that's a very a lot of logistics 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.560 in that. And you see these industries pouring so much 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.640 money into this stuff. And like meanwhile here in l A, 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:34.040 our biggest COVID testing site was shut down, uh for 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:38.400 a holiday and also possibly I was seeing some some 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:40.599 reports that like it would just had to like figure 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.800 out its funding, and that's not something that people are 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.440 like Sean Penn apparently was behind the funding for our 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:53.360 COVID testing site, Like that was not Yeah, like truly 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.240 when you have when you are relying on the goodness 0:05:56.240 --> 0:06:00.360 of Sean Penn's heart, the bars on the ground. Yeah, 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.240 So it's just like and and and and you know, 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.920 the COVID testing sites are kind of like dystopian in 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:07.320 and of themselves. Like I don't know if you guys 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:09.680 have gone there and not to the Dodger Stadium one, 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.599 but like all this stuff that people set up as 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:15.480 sort of these stop gaps is all a little bit dystopian. 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.279 But that at least is like, you know, potentially for 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:22.120 good and for prevention of the virus. Like I just 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:25.160 feel like it's like there's no real escapism. So anyone 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.240 claiming they're going to create a space where you'll be 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.080 like totally safe from the virus and it doesn't exist 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:34.280 there selling you a fantasy like Las Vegas just reopened 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.960 as well in Sanity City. I saw some pictures of 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:43.479 Atlantic City. All the um the slot machines have individual barriers, 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:48.120 plastic barriers around them like little sweatboxes. Yeah, it's all 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:52.520 just so sounds fun. Yeah, it's it's also patchwork. Like 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:56.440 you said, it's like clearly nobody in charge has a plan, 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.680 which is something we've been seeing for a lot of things. Well, 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:05.320 I took um my son to the doctor yesterday and 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:07.240 it was the first time he had been inside a 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:11.960 building since March. That was not our He was super 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.440 anxious about it. Uh, he wore a mask the entire time. 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:17.800 It ended up I think being the right decision, even 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.680 though it was just to check up the kids. His 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:22.760 age only get checked up once a year, so I 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.000 felt like it was important. But we were driving on 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:29.360 like these huge lines to get into a snow cone 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:33.960 store and also a vintage store. Yeah, and I was 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:36.960 just like, wow, I'm like keeping my kids to the doctor. 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:41.000 We're sweating, we're so nervous about this. And meanwhile there's 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:45.000 like just maybe thirty five people lined up on Melrose, 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.560 not distanced at all, waiting to get a snow cone. 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:51.800 It's very strange. I mean, as long as they weren't 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:55.040 going into a snow cone store, I guess I think 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:57.800 I think they were, But I think with a vintage store, 0:07:57.840 --> 0:07:59.440 it's just that they have to wear a covering in 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:01.400 their can't pill in there. But it just shows you, 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:05.080 like when the priorities and I'm not faulting any small 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.600 business owner at all, like I I think it's the 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.400 problem is is much higher up the chain than what 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.600 an individual store owner is doing. Right. They should have 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.000 paid They should have paid everyone to stay home from 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.720 the beginning. They paid everyone to stay home, and they 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.280 should still be doing that, we should still be under 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.080 like the first lockdown, but they like open back up, 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:35.320 and immediately everything got real bad. One thing that nobody 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.000 knows for sure if it's going to open back up 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:42.120 is schools school. Let's take a break, and when we 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:48.280 come back, Emily will enchant and amaze us with details 0:08:48.720 --> 0:09:07.520 of dark academia. Welcome back tonight call today. Emily is 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:12.160 the professor and we are all her students, and her 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:19.120 specialty is something called dark academia. Well, academia has gone dark, uh, 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:22.559 you know, obviously in the last several months, but now 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:28.120 it's going figuratively dark on TikTok and Instagram. I want 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.200 to reiterate, and I think this might come up later 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.079 when we're talking to Hannah. But like, I don't know 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:35.959 a single thing about what's going on with TikTok. I 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:39.560 don't have a TikTok account, So this is not firsthand knowledge. 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:41.520 This is not something I've observed. I read a New 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:45.720 York Times trend piece about it. I'm an old person. Uh, 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.600 but they're also if you want us to do a 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:53.040 night called dark Academia TikTok, you know, let us know. Sure, 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:55.679 I don't. I would not know how to go about that. 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:01.600 But there's this article by Christin Bateman called Academia Lives 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:05.599 on TikTok and it is about the recent uh TikTok 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.240 and Instagram and and I think it also kind of 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:13.199 started on Tumbler aesthetic project what what whatever you want 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.720 to call it, U called dark academia, which has taken 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:21.920 on some you know, particularly interesting meaning right now as 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:25.439 most of the teens and early twenty someomethings that are 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:30.840 participating in this trend are not in actual school and 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:36.120 don't know when they will be back in actual school. Um. 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:40.080 But the article, uh, the article kind of describes what, 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.360 you know, what the vibe is, and it's very you know, 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.160 it's it has images to which you can instantly kind 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.199 of get the vibe from the images. But um, Kristen 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.000 Babman writes, a typical post may involve teens showing off 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.080 There are gyle sweaters to classical tunes, followed by a 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.760 series of photos of leather bound books, handwritten notes, a 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.080 page from Weathering Heights, and a shot of a class 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:02.160 and a shot of class Greek architecture. It's not unusual 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.440 to see fans dressing up as their favorite book characters 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.760 are posting vintage photos of the novelist Donna Tart, author 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:12.480 of the Secret History Dark Academias Essential text Um. She 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:15.079 also kind of pitches it as an alternative to cottage core, 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.760 which I can't remember if we have talked about specifically 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:19.960 on this podcast, but we didn't end up talking about 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:25.160 cottage core. The cottage core is big right now. Can 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.440 you describe what cottage core is a little bit and 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:32.120 why it's like possibly problematic? Um, cottage core. The reason 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:37.280 cottage core is possibly problematic is it's like being into 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:41.440 home studding kind of. It's like a little house on 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:47.360 the prairie kind of you know, rustic pioneer ship. Um, 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.600 but you're like wearing cute sweaters and stuff. And is 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.320 it more pioneer or is it more I kind of 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.360 understood it. It It was almost like a like I was thinking, like, oh, 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.839 is Miyazaki cottage core because Miyazaki is super into like you. 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.760 It's a type of like a girl that's like into yeah, 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:11.400 kind of like a European forest uhal fairytale, more apesthetic, 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:18.320 maybe mixed in with some Japanese pop culture. I learned 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:22.800 about it recently because I learned about I was just 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.360 reading about the girls and going down a hole about 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:27.880 cottage core. But there was a thread recently where somebody 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.000 was like, watch watch out for the next wave of 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:33.440 like e girl fascists that are all really into cottage core. 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.760 And somebody was like the sentences inscrutable, and I was like, 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.360 I know what they're talking about, which is just any 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:45.240 kind of like back to the Homeland movement, even a 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:49.720 virtual one can definitely veer into like nationalism at a 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.720 certain point. But couldn't it also just be people who 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:56.240 like don't can't buy groceries in and now like I 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.360 should grow my own food. It could be totally benign. 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.800 I guess they're like a reaction against what we think 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:07.440 of as being the most like mainstream Instagram social media aesthetic. 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:12.000 Like right, it's like an aesthetic that wouldn't have social media, 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:16.319 but then you're using social media to film it. Um. 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:20.760 I learned about it because I was reading about Belle Delphine, 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:25.600 who is a gamer who sold her bath water and 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:30.240 then recently reappeared on the internet with an only fans 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:32.880 and like YouTube video. I just like learned a lot 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.600 about what's going on on the internet now. And she 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.559 had it was like she's now like now she hasn't 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.160 only fans and she does like sexy photo shoots, but 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.080 she started as sort of just a cause player and 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:48.440 her thing was totally cottage core. Um, not in a 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:52.760 fascist way, just in like sort of a Miyazaki way 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:54.719 like you were saying. It was like her she does 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:56.480 a tour of her room and she has all these 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:01.440 like dollhouses stacked up dollhouses and like some sort of 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:07.240 like leaves hung from the ceiling and stuff. Uh. I think, well, 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:13.520 you know, we watched Shirley Last Planning. Yeah. To me, 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:15.480 it just makes me think of like when you're a 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.160 teenage girl and you're like, I'm going to make my 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.760 room so cool and like beautiful and I'll want to 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:23.240 hang out and all the time. And maybe you don't 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.160 actually end up doing that, but you're like, what if 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.600 I could just decorate my room like exactly drawing your 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.840 plans for your dream room. It's a very big activity 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.360 of being like a tween. I feel like, um, yeah, 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:39.360 well so so like okay, so if cottage core is that, 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.040 which is like kind of it feels from from what 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.680 I've seen from your description of it feels a little um, 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.280 like goop adjacent again. I feel like it's all kind 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.280 of like training for planning your wedding. Like it's like 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.760 that kind of um right, it's like party planning for 0:14:55.800 --> 0:15:00.360 your house. Yeah, like like at a at some foliage. Uh, 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.160 you know, run through some flowers in a mock Malick 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.720 type shot or whatever. Right, because it's still like a 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.240 lot of things. It's about like accumulating things, like getting 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.200 new things to be part of your aesthetic. Yeah. So 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:18.680 so in this article about the dark academia, the author says, like, 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:20.840 to be a part of dark academia, you don't have 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.040 to have access to a country house, a field of flowers, 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.520 a big kitchen for baking, or an expensive prairie dress. 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:30.560 Most of the most of the clothing and dark academia 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.080 fans where is vintage and can easily be found in 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:39.320 second hand stores or sites. Um. And this like worms 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.040 to be very dark academia. It warms the cockles of 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:47.760 my heart. I I just like the the vibe that 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.120 these kids have and will link to the article is 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.240 like very It's exactly where I was when I was 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.320 that age, and all these kids are like so much 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.560 more put together and hotter than I was then, but 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:01.200 like it's still like I the the the aim and 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.040 what what is romantic to them? Feel I'm very sympathetic 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:09.600 to uh. And I think that that kind of egalitarian 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:14.520 aspect of it is is like super important because like 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.280 I was into that at a public school. Like I 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:22.320 think that most of these kids who are participating in this, 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:26.600 like if they like they're not they're not the like 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.480 kind of Ivy League, Like they're not a part of 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.960 the academy. They are taking the aesthetics of the academy 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.440 and molding it to their own purposes, which I think 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.120 is like a very good thing, because I think one 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.120 thing we've learned over um at least the past few months, 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:43.600 if not longer, is that the academy is more or 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.880 less broken, uh, And so why not just take the look, 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.320 especially if nobody's going to be going to school anyway, 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:55.520 like public, like the average American public school public high 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:59.480 school is like the least romantic place in the world 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.200 if you're a teenager. And so if you're going to 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.400 not be going to that specific physical place, like why 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:07.919 not build this school of the mind that you live in. 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:12.879 It's like vaguely like goth and and and and nerdy, 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:16.480 Like I don't know, I'm I'm supert late. I feel 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:21.439 like that aesthetic is just so prevalent in fiction. Um Again, 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:24.120 I'm a little concerned that maybe the thing cottage core 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.239 and dark academia have in common is sort of like 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:35.560 a fetishization of like England, like British, you know, school 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.159 uniform aesthetics. And then I was like many of the 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:43.960 things you are describing also described Caroline Callaway, who is 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:49.480 very into the academia aesthetic um and has also done 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:53.640 cosplaying as a bunch of like literary characters recently. It's 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.560 kind of like it's like movie Twitter for books or something. 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.000 It's like, yeah, it's the it's the fetish as they 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:03.320 sh of the objects and signifiers of like being a 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:06.840 smart person, which is like I think when you're a teen, fine, 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:09.719 like do not hang onto that as you go into adulthood. 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:11.399 Like I think that that can be very stunting in 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:15.920 a way, but I'm like fine, like whatever, Like it's 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.320 it sucks to be a teenager right now, and it 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.800 sucks to like do school right now as a young person, 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:25.119 whether that's college or high school. And you know, I 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:28.080 think the other thing is that like this is all 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:32.480 coming at a time when like Harvard, for example, I'm 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.680 sure other you know, some of the other most expensive 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.159 schools in the country are you know, all moving to 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:43.120 online for next year and still charging their same tuition. 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.439 And Harvard is still charging fifty dollars a year for 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:50.040 online school. So if you were going to Harvard for 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.720 like the vibes, like, you don't get those vibes anymore. 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:56.120 You might as well just do the vibes part for 0:18:56.200 --> 0:19:00.080 free and go to like Phoenix University or whatever for 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.199 like it doesn't like don't go to college and just 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:05.320 editing or whatever or just or like, you know, if 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.080 you need to get a specific degree to get a 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.000 certain kind of job, like an associates degree or whatever, 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.479 do that. But like it can be you know, you 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.200 can some of the stuff can be democratized. You can 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.280 find that you can find the excitement and like romance 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:21.760 of learning in in your own way, and it doesn't 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.560 need to be this like classest thing. I also think 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.080 as a test will say you have to not live 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:31.679 in New England in order to romanticize New England. It's true, 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:34.040 But I also I think I have to say though 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:38.520 that I think it's wonderful to you know, I think 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:40.760 what Emily saying is wonderful, and I definitely think that 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:42.960 it's great to try to like see some of the 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:45.879 plus sides in this. But every time I think about 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:49.680 UM kids who were hoping to go to any college 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:53.280 in the fall not being able to, and honestly, when 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.640 I think about what kids in general are going through 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.200 right now, it makes me so depressed. I mean, it's 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:02.080 hard to even talk about like embodying the aesthetic of UM, 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.000 the school that you hope to go to. Even I 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:08.879 think it's absolutely insane that Harvard is charging fifty dollars 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.280 with the size of their endowment for online classes. But 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:14.440 I also just think of, like, you know, a kid 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:16.920 who's who just was so excited to move away from 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.520 home and go to school, and I, I, my heart is, 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:26.199 like I've rarely used like this earnestly the words like 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:30.040 my heart breaks for someone, but just all of the 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.040 when you think about like all of the kids who 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.680 really like needed to to get out on their own 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.600 and who are living in bad situations. Sorry to take 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:41.639 it down a dark path, but you know, I I 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:45.000 just it's so so heavy, and I guess, like if 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.280 the kind of like cause playing you know of like 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:50.399 you're still going to college and you can kind of 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:53.960 like play pretend makes them happy, that's great. But I'm 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:56.560 also just like god, I wish that people could get 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:58.679 it to gather, to figure out a safe way to 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:03.520 like allow kids to like be able to to continue 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:07.160 on going to school. Yeah, I mean, I think it's 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:09.600 just like they're trying to find the bright side and 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:13.520 things and and that's wonderful. I mean that that's like 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:15.640 with many things that are going on right now. It's 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.879 like you there's like this glimmer of goodness and like happiness, 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:21.920 but then you just kind of zoom out and you're like, man, 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:24.600 it's so depressing, Like it's it's just really hard to 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:27.280 think about being in that position. I mean, I think 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:29.640 also a lot of the people who are doing this 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:32.320 who you know, and I don't know how much of 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:34.879 an overlap there is with somebody who was going to 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:38.520 go to a respected American institution or you know, your 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:43.560 Oxbridge or whatever um and people who participate in dark academia. 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:46.280 I don't actually know, like I can't really really get 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:48.520 a handle on what that overlap is. But like a 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:50.440 lot of the people who are doing it are not 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:53.080 living in the US. Like one of the main, uh, 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:58.359 main originators of the whole vibe is a Brazilian girl. UM, 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:03.119 and I think that at a certain point, like it's 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:07.240 it's like I think that it has nothing, has nothing 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:12.160 to do with like what what those places actually are, Like, 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:14.760 I think it is it. It exists on its own. 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:17.720 After a while, it's like it becomes its own sort 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:22.840 of um like point of inspiration that's almost like divorced 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:25.800 from the institution. And I think and I think like 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:29.160 and and and Harvard is going to let some people 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:32.040 on campus this year, not everybody. I think that they're 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:35.840 going to be like thirty percent of UM their enrollment 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:37.399 is going to be allowed to live on campus, but 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:42.080 everybody is going to be UM online and uh. In 0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:45.640 the meantime, a ton of people who have student visas 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:48.159 international students, and those a lot of those students are 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:51.080 the people who really were counting on having an on 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:55.120 campus experience at a school, more so than like somebody 0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:58.119 in the U S who's like you know, whose parents 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:00.919 are paying their whole way to go to Harvard or whatever. Like, 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:03.399 those those people are like in a position to do 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:07.000 a romanticize Harvard the most and be be most the 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:10.480 most affected by school not being in session, and so 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:13.240 like and and and ice is going to be now 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:16.480 like not honoring these student pisas so like kids who 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:18.960 are planning on living here, whether it was on campus 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:22.359 or like in in a near campus apartment, like they 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:25.399 might not be you know, safe in the country anymore, 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:28.960 and that should have super fucked up. Um and so 0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:32.080 I I do. There's a part of me that just 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:36.560 like it feels very kind. It is it's it's it's 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:38.879 a bummer, it sucks and it's sad, but it's also 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:42.119 like I like that this like the Internet finds a 0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:47.040 way somehow to like persist. Yeah, that's what I mean though, 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:49.639 I mean it's like it just makes you think that 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:52.800 people you're like, that's very plucky during a time when 0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:55.160 it's hard to be. And I think like, in a way, 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:57.400 I guess the thing that's the saddest to me no 0:23:57.440 --> 0:24:00.000 matter what situation. But I thought you brought up great points, Emily, 0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:03.000 is you know, I think the whole like aesthetic is 0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:05.879 really just so tied to being a young adult and 0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:09.600 being independent and like being able to have a style 0:24:09.680 --> 0:24:12.719 that matches a place that you chose ideally to go 0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:15.800 to school or whatever. Like, you know, there's many different 0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:18.560 college aesthetics and I like pretty much all of them 0:24:19.359 --> 0:24:22.280 because I just remember, like I don't know, just just 0:24:22.320 --> 0:24:25.320 the feeling, the like excitement of being of reinventing yourself. 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:28.560 I guess as like a young adult was very powerful 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:31.200 and it it you know, it's really hard to think 0:24:31.200 --> 0:24:33.399 about the different layers of like how this kind of 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:36.600 affects people's psyches. But those people get to put their 0:24:36.640 --> 0:24:39.879 new identities online. Yeah, And I think one thing I 0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:42.119 have learned from the little that I've been exposed to 0:24:42.160 --> 0:24:45.040 TikTok is and especially when you're talking about these aesthetics, 0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:48.120 is that they are so mutable and that people are 0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:51.359 changing their identities all the time in very very conscious 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:54.880 ways that they announce and they show how they are 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:57.320 changing their looks. There are a lot of the dark 0:24:57.400 --> 0:25:00.920 academic videos are this. They are like, I'm I'm being 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:04.520 dark academia. Now here's my here's my wardrobe. Um, here 0:25:04.520 --> 0:25:08.040 are all the like slubby sweaters I got from Goodwill. Um, 0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:11.359 it's very cute like and like, and I think that 0:25:11.400 --> 0:25:14.360 there I I think that there is a lot of opportunity, 0:25:14.480 --> 0:25:16.840 especially with the Internet, for people to try on those 0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:19.760 new identities, whether they're living at home or whether they're 0:25:19.800 --> 0:25:22.040 going out into the world on their own. Like I think, 0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:26.080 I think that kids are result teens, especially with social 0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:31.040 media accounts, are very resilient right now. Fores um, I 0:25:31.080 --> 0:25:35.320 don't know, but yeah, I would uh, I would recommend 0:25:35.400 --> 0:25:39.400 checking out the article at least because it's just sort 0:25:39.400 --> 0:25:42.159 of a trip. It's just like we're now at a 0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:45.680 place where this is this is what school is now. 0:25:45.720 --> 0:25:48.359 I'm just imagining like if we had had TikTok and stuff. 0:25:48.400 --> 0:25:50.800 I guess we had YouTube, but like during the recession 0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:52.959 and we're all just making videos that were like I 0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:56.080 thought I'd be a grown up now oops, here comes 0:25:56.080 --> 0:25:59.439 a recession. I mean that was me in high school anyway. 0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:01.439 Like I mean, like I think that this look was 0:26:01.440 --> 0:26:04.240 sort of more my core. But like then I would 0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:06.159 be like, Okay, it's goth day to day, Like I'm 0:26:06.200 --> 0:26:08.879 going to get my goth stuff out and like I 0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:12.000 would have, you know, these specific look days and be 0:26:12.119 --> 0:26:15.000 like I'm doing this this week or whatever. In a 0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:22.320 very kind of tiki taki homespun way. Tiki talkie and 0:26:22.400 --> 0:26:24.800 I And that's like some of the stuff I'm most 0:26:24.840 --> 0:26:28.879 nostalgic about about being young is like even if you 0:26:28.960 --> 0:26:32.880 don't have money or resources, like it feels like the 0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:36.440 idea of the self that you're building is so endlessly mutable. 0:26:36.520 --> 0:26:39.240 It's like very I don't know, it feels it feels fun. 0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:44.600 It feels like anything is possible. But yeah, yeah, it's 0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:47.000 also just like it's funnier to cause play the secret 0:26:47.040 --> 0:26:50.840 history than like Harry Potter. And I'm sure that all 0:26:50.880 --> 0:26:53.119 these kids who like also according to this article, are 0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:57.480 like super super progressive, like very like gender queer, like 0:26:57.480 --> 0:27:02.160 like you know, are very very woke, uh are I'm 0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:06.639 sure that they're all abandoning their their child love of 0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:08.840 Harry Potter right now, and they're all like kind of 0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:12.359 all over like be careful with referencing classicism and stuff, 0:27:12.400 --> 0:27:14.680 which is like hilarious. It's like they're already doing it, 0:27:14.800 --> 0:27:17.080 like right, I read it a great There's like a 0:27:17.119 --> 0:27:21.000 quote from Ursula Kyla Gwen about how Harry Potter was 0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:22.960 kind of a rip off of the Earth Sea books 0:27:23.000 --> 0:27:24.800 that she wrote, but she was like, but they have 0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:29.919 no class consciousness, so they're like not good they're like, 0:27:29.960 --> 0:27:31.840 I guess she was. She was really funny. She was like, 0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:35.560 I guess they made someone a millionaire. Yeah, like not me. 0:27:36.720 --> 0:27:40.400 She also like apparently stole from some um like Neil 0:27:40.440 --> 0:27:45.840 Gaiman book that look looked like really bad. Yeah yeah, 0:27:46.040 --> 0:27:48.480 like look up like Google and Neil game in Books 0:27:48.480 --> 0:27:51.560 of Magic at the covers look exactly like Harry Pottery 0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:54.680 Painter books are like not well written, picular. I would 0:27:54.720 --> 0:27:57.120 just like I would disagree with that. They're like they 0:27:57.160 --> 0:28:00.960 move along. Yeah, that's what a why book has to do. Yeah, 0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:04.760 but there's better, there's better magical young fantasy. Y A. 0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:06.920 You know what I really liked this was my dark 0:28:06.960 --> 0:28:11.080 Academia was the worst witch. You love the worst witch, 0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:13.960 get into the worst. I definitely seen the worst, which 0:28:14.160 --> 0:28:20.360 wasn't that. Um what was that actress was from? Yeah, okay, 0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:23.440 there we go. Yeah for all that's phenomenal. There was 0:28:23.520 --> 0:28:26.000 also it was like a series of books, and there 0:28:26.080 --> 0:28:29.119 was also a I believe it was a British show 0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:33.360 that they then dubbed in with either American or Canadian voices, 0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:36.840 So it had a super weird feel to it that 0:28:36.920 --> 0:28:40.560 I didn't pinpoint until later. Yeah. Yeah, that was like 0:28:40.560 --> 0:28:44.800 a made for TV movie or something. Yeah. Yeah, Witch 0:28:44.800 --> 0:28:50.000 Academies always always, which you watched a good animey about 0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:54.600 a witch academy too, right, me? Yeah, it was magical Modocca, 0:28:54.880 --> 0:28:57.840 not a it's not it's not now. But there's like 0:28:57.920 --> 0:29:03.040 Little Witch Academia, which is very possitive. Watched it. But yeah, 0:29:03.360 --> 0:29:08.040 we're all we're all graduating summa kum laude from Little 0:29:08.040 --> 0:29:13.200 Witch Academia. Um. Well, we're gonna take a break and 0:29:13.280 --> 0:29:15.560 when we come back, we're gonna bring Hannah Georgis on 0:29:15.640 --> 0:29:32.640 to talk three sixty five days. Welcome back to Nightcall. 0:29:33.240 --> 0:29:36.760 We are now joined by Hannah Georgis. She's a staff 0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:39.160 writer at the Atlantic and she's here to take a 0:29:39.240 --> 0:29:42.600 very special night call with us. Hey, guys, a long time, 0:29:42.640 --> 0:29:47.320 long time. I just watched three D sixty five days. Uh, 0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:51.720 the erotic film that's kind of sweeping TikTok and is 0:29:51.800 --> 0:29:56.960 currently number ten on trending movies on Netflix. Um, and 0:29:57.000 --> 0:30:00.640 I'm very curious to hear your guys thought as kind 0:30:00.680 --> 0:30:04.840 of the resident erotic thriller, you know, experts. All right, 0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:08.960 thank you, by wow. I feel very honored right now. Um. 0:30:09.120 --> 0:30:12.880 I have to say though, as maybe uh, not exactly 0:30:13.200 --> 0:30:15.920 a erotic thriller expert, not in the way that this 0:30:16.080 --> 0:30:18.640 collar says that we are. I did not know about 0:30:18.720 --> 0:30:22.080 three D sixty five days until I read Hannah's Peace 0:30:22.240 --> 0:30:25.719 in The Atlantic about it, um, which had you know, 0:30:26.280 --> 0:30:28.320 a headline I'm sure just like was caddip to me 0:30:28.360 --> 0:30:32.920 like why is everybody watching this mysteriously awful erotic thriller 0:30:33.000 --> 0:30:38.480 on Netflix? And I was like, click right now, why 0:30:39.160 --> 0:30:45.760 why was everybody watching this mysteriously terrible erotic thriller on Netflix? Well? Um, 0:30:45.800 --> 0:30:47.160 you know, I think it's a bunch of things. It's 0:30:47.160 --> 0:30:52.920 like Netflix and their algorithm being mysterious, as they always are. Um, 0:30:53.360 --> 0:30:56.520 but also it's just so weird and outlandish and I 0:30:56.560 --> 0:31:00.960 think removed from what kind of sex, if any, is 0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:03.080 happening right now in the world, and so there's something 0:31:03.120 --> 0:31:05.920 like ha ha, like this is just outrageous. Look at 0:31:05.920 --> 0:31:08.680 these people they're having sex outdoors, and like there's something 0:31:09.120 --> 0:31:12.240 like fabulous and wild about it. Um. But I think 0:31:12.280 --> 0:31:14.920 appealed to people right now in this moment where human 0:31:14.960 --> 0:31:18.840 beings are not really touching each other. Yeah, there's something 0:31:18.920 --> 0:31:22.880 like that's the opposite about COVID and lockdown, about like 0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:28.680 the drone shots of like right, the opposite of where 0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:32.160 we are right right, Like that's always a ridiculous thing 0:31:32.280 --> 0:31:35.080 for most people, and now it's just like, what an 0:31:35.080 --> 0:31:37.840 outrageous concepts They're outdoors having sex. It's like, no, this 0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:43.200 would always be weird. But yeah, any human contact is 0:31:43.240 --> 0:31:47.360 now science fiction. That's true. Yeah, I do think like 0:31:47.400 --> 0:31:49.520 in your piece you also touched on this thing that 0:31:49.600 --> 0:31:53.800 I want to like dig into more about this movie 0:31:53.880 --> 0:31:56.600 and about like anything that can even vaguely be called 0:31:56.600 --> 0:31:59.560 an erotic though or erotic drama that comes out now, 0:31:59.600 --> 0:32:02.480 which is it Like it's sort of inevitably about like 0:32:02.560 --> 0:32:06.000 luxury and stuff like like that's the big thing with 0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:09.680 fifty Shades of Gray, which is this Obviously there's a 0:32:09.800 --> 0:32:12.560 kind of spiritual resemblance too. In a lot of ways 0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:16.560 it inspired it. So did the book was inspired by 0:32:16.560 --> 0:32:19.280 it directly because these are based on Polish books, correct 0:32:19.480 --> 0:32:22.400 Polish books. The woman who wrote the trip it's a trilogy, 0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:26.320 and the woman who wrote them was formerly a cosmetologist 0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:29.760 and then a therapist and a hypnotist. Uh And she 0:32:29.960 --> 0:32:35.080 said she was inspired by Gotta Have Her On Total 0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:38.880 nightc material. She said she was inspired by fifty Shades 0:32:38.880 --> 0:32:43.680 of Gray and a personal holiday trip to Italy Sicily specifically, 0:32:43.720 --> 0:32:47.080 which obviously but yeah, I was like, I mean the 0:32:47.160 --> 0:32:51.080 fifty Shades is very, very baked in fifty shades was 0:32:51.080 --> 0:32:54.840 was itself Twilight fan fiction exactly. It's just a lot 0:32:54.840 --> 0:32:59.640 of iterating yeah, yeah, And it's like, you know, it's 0:32:59.640 --> 0:33:02.440 funny because like I'm like a very I'm like a 0:33:02.480 --> 0:33:05.479 big lurker on like Archive of our own and like 0:33:05.520 --> 0:33:08.240 all fan fiction forums and like what pad and ship 0:33:08.320 --> 0:33:10.480 like that, and it's very funny because like if you look, 0:33:10.880 --> 0:33:13.680 if you search Twitter for people talking about three in 0:33:13.800 --> 0:33:16.080 sixty five Days, there's like a meme going around where 0:33:16.080 --> 0:33:19.680 it's like like, uh, like people watching through in the 0:33:19.720 --> 0:33:22.000 sixty five Days for the first time, like Wow, it 0:33:22.040 --> 0:33:24.640 would be so cool to have a dangerous mafia boyfriend. 0:33:24.640 --> 0:33:26.720 And then it's like people who live on what Pad 0:33:26.760 --> 0:33:29.080 and it's a it's like a screen grab of James 0:33:29.160 --> 0:33:32.360 Franco from The Ballad of Buster Scrugs when they're like 0:33:32.400 --> 0:33:37.000 getting hanged and he's like first time. Because it's just 0:33:37.040 --> 0:33:40.440 like the template of this movie and like the way 0:33:40.480 --> 0:33:44.560 that the plot works is like just ground level fan 0:33:44.640 --> 0:33:50.800 fic um like erotic fanfic stuff. Um, yeah, there's something. 0:33:51.040 --> 0:33:53.320 I mean, I think that that there's there's some appeal 0:33:53.360 --> 0:33:55.840 in that too, right, that people can just put can 0:33:55.880 --> 0:33:59.000 graph whatever their own personal things are onto this movie 0:33:59.000 --> 0:34:02.920 because there's not actually really coconesive storyline or real characters 0:34:03.000 --> 0:34:05.480 to latch onto. Like these aren't people so much as 0:34:05.520 --> 0:34:08.360 they are like stock characters to sort of im you 0:34:08.520 --> 0:34:12.880 with your own whatever. Honestly, it makes so much sense 0:34:13.200 --> 0:34:18.360 that beloved genre tonight call softcore would come back during 0:34:18.440 --> 0:34:24.040 Lockdown because everyone's trapped at home at all times, and 0:34:24.080 --> 0:34:26.439 I feel like one thing the streaming wars have been 0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:30.280 missing is like the soft core element that made premium 0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:34.000 cable such a hit, and that maybe spawned a lot 0:34:34.000 --> 0:34:36.920 of these erotic thrillers because we've said a lot of 0:34:36.920 --> 0:34:38.799 it's like you can get away with anything if you 0:34:38.840 --> 0:34:44.400 say it's European totally. Well, I was gonna say, like 0:34:44.440 --> 0:34:47.279 also on top of that, like next to the need 0:34:47.320 --> 0:34:50.880 for softcore during during Lockdown, there's like the need for 0:34:50.920 --> 0:34:53.520 a hunk, which I think you like get into the 0:34:53.560 --> 0:34:56.160 start whose name I was trying to look up again, 0:34:56.560 --> 0:35:02.080 who's become kind of yes, yes, he also sings a 0:35:02.120 --> 0:35:07.440 bunch of the tracks which are really in its own Okay, 0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:09.960 So the audience who may not have seen this movie, 0:35:10.120 --> 0:35:13.080 such as me, can you give me a brief rundown 0:35:14.200 --> 0:35:18.560 of you know how many of the nightcall erotic, thriller, 0:35:18.600 --> 0:35:21.600 bingo things are getting checked off in this movie. I 0:35:21.600 --> 0:35:24.160 should check you know, what happens in this movie. So 0:35:24.760 --> 0:35:27.279 he's a millionaire and he kidnaps her. I want to 0:35:27.320 --> 0:35:29.240 hear Hanna try and do it and we can jump 0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:32.200 in because I feel like your piece made us watch 0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:36.040 this movie. And so to all every time you say that, 0:35:36.080 --> 0:35:38.680 I'm like, what have I done? We're grateful, We're grateful. 0:35:39.040 --> 0:35:44.000 Thank you. So this man, me Massimo, who's played by 0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:48.320 Michael Moroney, this liken car throb figure who becomes to something. 0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:53.280 Um sees his father, who's a like the Sicilian mob boss, 0:35:53.800 --> 0:35:56.200 be murdered right in front of him, like he gets 0:35:56.200 --> 0:35:58.200 flattered with his dad's blood. It's like right there. And 0:35:58.320 --> 0:36:01.000 as this is happening, he looks off into the distance 0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:05.520 and they're like on this like lighthouse structure near the sea, 0:36:05.680 --> 0:36:07.640 Like they're just kind of in the middle of the ocean, 0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:10.520 on the structure, and he looks out and as his 0:36:10.600 --> 0:36:12.560 dad gets shot, and he sees this woman in the 0:36:12.600 --> 0:36:16.200 distance and he decides like that she's like some apparition 0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:18.000 and he has to find her, and he becomes obsessed 0:36:18.000 --> 0:36:20.520 with her, and like ages later, you find out like, okay, 0:36:20.520 --> 0:36:24.800 it's just you know, Laura, the woman who's the Laura 0:36:26.360 --> 0:36:29.240 taking turns out that she this balds woman. Fast forward, 0:36:30.000 --> 0:36:34.360 and he kidnaps her and tells her that she basically 0:36:34.400 --> 0:36:37.480 has three hundred and sixty five days to either fall 0:36:37.480 --> 0:36:40.719 in love with him or he'll like release her, and she, 0:36:41.320 --> 0:36:46.080 you know, shockingly like does soon on soon into the arrangement, 0:36:46.400 --> 0:36:48.920 and then they have just a lot of really outrageous 0:36:48.920 --> 0:36:52.640 and impractical sex. But that's mostly there's like some other 0:36:52.640 --> 0:36:59.400 stuff that happens. Please describe the sex more on this 0:36:59.480 --> 0:37:02.680 spit aspect, which I feel is really the zeit geist here. 0:37:04.440 --> 0:37:08.640 I still kind of they let me do that in 0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:12.360 one scene. There is a lot of spit. Really. Yeah, 0:37:12.480 --> 0:37:15.600 So the first the way that the first actual sex 0:37:15.600 --> 0:37:17.560 scene when she decides that like this is going to 0:37:17.640 --> 0:37:22.239 happen comes to be is that she falls off of 0:37:22.320 --> 0:37:24.319 the side of the yacht. It kind of looks like 0:37:24.360 --> 0:37:27.480 she jumped, but she falls they're having to fight. They're 0:37:27.520 --> 0:37:31.799 having to fight, it's like almost violent. Yeah, But then 0:37:31.800 --> 0:37:35.400 he jumps in to save her and she's overwhelmed with 0:37:35.440 --> 0:37:37.960 gratitude and decides that you know, she loves him. Now 0:37:38.000 --> 0:37:40.120 they're going to have sex with the wrong So thus 0:37:40.160 --> 0:37:46.160 begins this like incredibly long sequence where they're having panoramic 0:37:46.200 --> 0:37:49.920 shots like the yacht, the wa the iseland, like anything 0:37:49.920 --> 0:37:52.320 that you and like you can see them as like 0:37:52.440 --> 0:37:55.520 tiny little blips on the yacht having sex, but they're 0:37:55.560 --> 0:37:57.719 just there. It's from so many different angles, and the 0:37:57.800 --> 0:38:01.759 kind of closer up ones one of them he's like 0:38:01.800 --> 0:38:05.080 about to go down on her and fits and that 0:38:05.239 --> 0:38:07.799 like there's a whole sort of close shot of that. 0:38:08.560 --> 0:38:13.040 People really responded to it is there is there full 0:38:13.080 --> 0:38:17.320 frontal in this movie. Not for no, not not quite. 0:38:17.520 --> 0:38:22.000 It's like, you know, it's soft. But also I should 0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:25.320 say that I found this movie so unsexy and it's 0:38:25.360 --> 0:38:28.400 really for a few reasons, right, But okay, Hanna, was 0:38:28.440 --> 0:38:31.400 it also for you because of the soundtrack? Then the 0:38:31.480 --> 0:38:35.240 soundtrack is insane. As soon as you start to be like, hum, 0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:40.880 maybe then they play either um, Mikaela Marons like his tracks, 0:38:40.960 --> 0:38:44.040 which I think have some really goofy names like hard 0:38:44.120 --> 0:38:48.879 for Me, It's so bad. But then there's also these 0:38:48.920 --> 0:38:52.040 songs by a band called Everybody Loves an Outlaw and 0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:56.480 they're from Texas, and that's the more kind of like weird, 0:38:56.520 --> 0:39:00.879 easy listening, ish soft rock kind of thing. They're like, 0:39:00.960 --> 0:39:03.799 I think there was some streaming platform that had the 0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:07.360 Hills for a while and UM replaced. They had to 0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:09.600 replace all the songs because they couldn't have the right. 0:39:09.840 --> 0:39:11.440 They didn't have the right, So it was just like 0:39:11.520 --> 0:39:15.840 weirdly anonymous pop that sounded, you know, kind of just 0:39:16.000 --> 0:39:18.120 off a little bit because it was made in a lab. 0:39:18.440 --> 0:39:23.719 That's kind of what sounds like. Yeah, it sounds like 0:39:24.280 --> 0:39:27.239 it's supposed to. Soundtracking would be about a girl who 0:39:27.280 --> 0:39:30.799 like goes to college somewhere in like the Pacific Northwest. 0:39:31.000 --> 0:39:34.120 It just like like, this just doesn't fit what I'm 0:39:34.120 --> 0:39:37.759 being asked to consume. Yes, it is so far from 0:39:37.760 --> 0:39:42.360 a sexy vibe. It's like a like studying hard vibe. Yeah, 0:39:43.760 --> 0:39:45.680 I feel like we all, we all did not have 0:39:45.760 --> 0:39:49.120 like a particularly sexy reaction to nine and a half Weeks, 0:39:49.280 --> 0:39:54.799 which is another classic You didn't you mean you're saying 0:39:54.840 --> 0:39:58.000 you didn't have a sexy reaction in half weeks. I 0:39:58.040 --> 0:40:02.040 mean it felt sort of clinical. No, no, no, I 0:40:02.080 --> 0:40:05.800 had an opposite reaction on your face. Sorry, wait, Hanna, 0:40:05.880 --> 0:40:08.200 have you seen nine and a half weeks? I haven't. 0:40:08.719 --> 0:40:10.640 It's like a really good anaduct to this. I think 0:40:10.680 --> 0:40:13.719 I think it's kind of great. There's a long tradition 0:40:13.920 --> 0:40:16.839 of movies that get really bad reviews and then are 0:40:16.880 --> 0:40:20.920 really popular with people because they're so horny, and it 0:40:21.640 --> 0:40:26.359 sounds like, yeah, sometimes that's what you want. I uh 0:40:26.880 --> 0:40:29.400 So I went into watching this, you know, I was, 0:40:30.600 --> 0:40:32.759 you know, I'll prep to to watch a certain thing 0:40:32.800 --> 0:40:35.759 after reading your article. And then there, um, there was 0:40:35.800 --> 0:40:38.640 this sort of controversy that surrounded it. Um the singer 0:40:38.760 --> 0:40:44.040 Duffy uh pendant kind of open letter basically taking Netflix 0:40:44.280 --> 0:40:48.319 Netflix to task for what she said was romanticizing and 0:40:48.360 --> 0:40:53.920 glorifying um, what's essentially a kidnapping in a trafficking story. 0:40:54.040 --> 0:40:57.759 Uh And and she herself had been a victim of 0:40:58.120 --> 0:41:01.120 this kind of crime, I guess a couple of years ago, 0:41:01.320 --> 0:41:04.839 so she was just so. I I kind of went 0:41:04.840 --> 0:41:08.319 into it being like, oh, no, is this like more radioactive? Then? 0:41:08.400 --> 0:41:11.239 I thought, I like, like it was more radioactive thing 0:41:11.239 --> 0:41:14.719 than I thought I was getting myself into UM, and 0:41:14.760 --> 0:41:17.560 I think, like, and so it made me more tuned 0:41:17.640 --> 0:41:21.840 to the kind of um, the kind of violence and 0:41:22.440 --> 0:41:25.399 like fucked up psychology that was going on in this 0:41:25.520 --> 0:41:27.320 like in a way that I was for nine and 0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:29.840 a half weeks UM just because I think that that's 0:41:29.880 --> 0:41:32.280 like just a good movie about that that's like depicts 0:41:32.320 --> 0:41:35.600 that stuff. But this is a bad movie that depicts 0:41:35.640 --> 0:41:37.799 that stuff. But I was still very like attuned to 0:41:37.960 --> 0:41:42.000 it and thinking about, like, I think especially we watched 0:41:42.040 --> 0:41:46.279 we watched UM Starship Troopers last week, which is a 0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:50.840 great movie and perennially relevant especially now, and I was 0:41:50.880 --> 0:41:52.920 thinking about, like how much that movie is about like 0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:56.160 violence and force and taking things by force and like 0:41:56.160 --> 0:41:59.080 a culture built around force. And there's so many times 0:41:59.080 --> 0:42:01.279 in this movie where, like, especially in the first half, 0:42:01.280 --> 0:42:03.920 where she's like where he's like kind of getting in her, 0:42:03.960 --> 0:42:06.600 like getting in her personal space, like kind of threatening 0:42:06.640 --> 0:42:10.399 her sexually, and she always says like, or what you're 0:42:10.400 --> 0:42:12.960 gonna kill me? And I always thought that was so 0:42:13.080 --> 0:42:16.520 interesting because there's this thing where it's just like this 0:42:16.600 --> 0:42:20.239 guy is so aggro, but all he can threaten is 0:42:20.320 --> 0:42:24.839 violence and in a way that's like constantly questioned by 0:42:25.080 --> 0:42:28.360 the female character in a way doesn't feel like he 0:42:28.480 --> 0:42:32.239 might actually kill her, That's my question. I mean, he's 0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:34.719 like a murder. He kills other people, like that's the 0:42:34.760 --> 0:42:38.960 whole mafia boyfriend trope. If he's sexy and he like 0:42:39.120 --> 0:42:43.759 keeps his secrets. Yeah, yeah, I definitely felt like he 0:42:44.640 --> 0:42:47.879 is capable of violence for sure, But I do think that, 0:42:47.880 --> 0:42:50.200 you know, at least for me, I never felt like 0:42:50.239 --> 0:42:52.960 he was actually going to kill her, right, like, because 0:42:52.960 --> 0:42:55.000 the whole, the whole thing of it is like here's 0:42:55.080 --> 0:42:57.040 this like a guy who kills people and he does 0:42:57.080 --> 0:42:59.080 all this bad stuff, but like, really he has this 0:42:59.360 --> 0:43:02.960 intense for you. It's like that's so messed up on 0:43:03.000 --> 0:43:06.160 like a million different levels. And also like he does 0:43:06.320 --> 0:43:09.719 kind of hold to having a thing, however messed up 0:43:09.719 --> 0:43:12.520 it is. I feel like everyone litigated this a lot. 0:43:12.680 --> 0:43:16.080 When Fifty Shades of Gray came out, there was a 0:43:16.120 --> 0:43:18.600 lot of like, well, if it's fantasy, like can it 0:43:18.640 --> 0:43:21.239 show something that's really fucked up, you know, and we 0:43:21.280 --> 0:43:24.560 acknowledge that it's fucked up? Or does just the act 0:43:24.600 --> 0:43:29.279 of showing it always like fetishize it. I still don't 0:43:29.280 --> 0:43:31.640 know what I think. I think it's case by case. 0:43:32.120 --> 0:43:37.759 Um obviously, like I understand why Duffy doesn't want to 0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:42.399 watch it, you know. Um, I feel like something like this. 0:43:42.520 --> 0:43:45.440 I'm like, it's a this is a bad movie, but 0:43:46.320 --> 0:43:49.080 I'm kind of grateful for like there is something that 0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:52.000 a movie like this is uniquely positioned to be able 0:43:52.040 --> 0:43:57.880 to expose about, like attitudes about sex and violence. Um. Yeah, 0:43:57.920 --> 0:44:01.040 Pulverhoven said that about Start Ship Troopers, who is like, 0:44:01.120 --> 0:44:03.640 you can, yeah, you can show as much violence as 0:44:03.640 --> 0:44:06.359 you want, but you can't show a Tit can't show 0:44:06.360 --> 0:44:09.279 a titty in American movies or they'll give you like 0:44:09.320 --> 0:44:11.600 an m C seventeen, which is totally true. So I 0:44:11.680 --> 0:44:15.359 think also just having a movie that has a lot 0:44:15.440 --> 0:44:20.439 of semi full nudity uh and sex in it is 0:44:20.440 --> 0:44:22.840 is always how they've marketed a certain type of European 0:44:23.080 --> 0:44:27.239 art movie to Americans. And yeah, I think a lot 0:44:27.239 --> 0:44:29.600 of people it's like it's not so much the Europeans. 0:44:29.760 --> 0:44:31.759 You know, if a movie is like high salutint enough 0:44:31.840 --> 0:44:34.080 obviously as you can put lots of sex in it 0:44:34.120 --> 0:44:36.160 and it will get Oscars. But like this seems like 0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:40.920 it's kind of trashy and tremendously trash, and that the 0:44:41.000 --> 0:44:43.640 dissonance is all between like how sexy it's supposed to 0:44:43.640 --> 0:44:46.680 be and how like skin Crawley it actually is. Well, 0:44:46.719 --> 0:44:49.560 it also makes no sense, and I think Hanna brought 0:44:49.680 --> 0:44:51.920 that up like really well in your piece when you 0:44:52.000 --> 0:44:55.880 kind of said that it it reflects our surreal reality 0:44:56.239 --> 0:44:59.840 and and how things feel very off, and this movie, 0:45:00.040 --> 0:45:02.560 everything about it feels very off. We were talking earlier 0:45:03.160 --> 0:45:05.640 about how it has a lot of like The Bachelor 0:45:05.920 --> 0:45:08.640 kind of baked into it as well. I was like 0:45:08.760 --> 0:45:11.800 ninety Day Fiance, which I've been watching a ton of 0:45:11.800 --> 0:45:14.960 of the like you know this kind of weird the 0:45:15.040 --> 0:45:18.799 like the ticking clock of on the romance, these kind 0:45:18.800 --> 0:45:23.120 of contrived, weird meetings with like um, he meets her 0:45:23.160 --> 0:45:27.839 parents at a wedding and like we're very strange. Strange. Well, 0:45:28.040 --> 0:45:30.920 that's what's so weird about Fifty Shades of Gray too. 0:45:30.960 --> 0:45:33.480 And I think this entire genre is, like it's not 0:45:33.560 --> 0:45:36.840 really about sex. It's about this like deep soul connecting 0:45:37.000 --> 0:45:39.640 romance that like starts with sex but then becomes like 0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:44.600 an all an, all consuming obsession. It's like Wuthering Heights style. 0:45:45.320 --> 0:45:49.240 You know it's fucked up, but everyone involved just into 0:45:49.280 --> 0:45:52.000 how fucked up it is, which is what makes it okay. 0:45:52.200 --> 0:45:55.319 It's like the movie. I feel like most of these 0:45:55.320 --> 0:45:57.680 movies make it clear that it's like a little consensual 0:45:57.840 --> 0:46:00.560 and in fifty Shades of Gray. They like sort of 0:46:00.600 --> 0:46:03.360 interrogated whether it is at the end of the first 0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:05.400 one at least, and then walked it back. How did 0:46:05.400 --> 0:46:09.000 do you think this would be popular without COVID and 0:46:09.040 --> 0:46:12.680 without lockdown? Like obviously that the appeal of a cheesy, 0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:16.120 globe trotting sex movie is is one thing, But do 0:46:16.160 --> 0:46:18.399 you think that, like there's something that's still in the air, 0:46:18.440 --> 0:46:20.839 regardless of if we're all locked up at home in 0:46:20.960 --> 0:46:27.120 our own prisons, where uh yeah, where this would still 0:46:27.160 --> 0:46:28.919 like take off. I can see it being really big 0:46:28.920 --> 0:46:37.840 around the holidays, like you know what I mean, Yeah, 0:46:38.440 --> 0:46:42.040 being trapped in someone else's house. Yeah, there's just some 0:46:42.200 --> 0:46:47.000 stuff going on where people look to entertainment that is 0:46:47.040 --> 0:46:49.480 sort of slightly outside of what they might normally consume 0:46:49.520 --> 0:46:54.880 and also against at least a real slightly bizarre and 0:46:54.960 --> 0:46:58.000 not necessarily made. They're just like obvious sidelines. Yeah, and 0:46:58.040 --> 0:47:01.680 I think that all humors have that ability to like 0:47:01.760 --> 0:47:06.560 have a curveball hit. It just makes sense that, you know, 0:47:06.640 --> 0:47:10.360 after rom comms would come erotic thrillers. Is this movie 0:47:10.360 --> 0:47:15.240 erotic or a thriller? I don't think it's a thriller. Really, 0:47:15.719 --> 0:47:18.439 it's an erotic and erotic drama, which is the same 0:47:18.520 --> 0:47:21.600 genre as uh nine and a half weeks. So what 0:47:21.680 --> 0:47:31.439 movies do you guys think are legitimately sexy? Well, it's 0:47:31.480 --> 0:47:33.759 it's funny because I think that a lot of the 0:47:33.760 --> 0:47:36.000 stuff that sticks out in our memories when it comes 0:47:36.040 --> 0:47:39.600 to like sexy movies, like sexy mainstream movies are like 0:47:39.920 --> 0:47:45.279 stuff that left a big impression on us as young people. Right, no, 0:47:45.520 --> 0:47:50.000 you could show that in a movie. But but yeah, there, 0:47:50.160 --> 0:47:52.919 once you become an adult, I feel like it's less 0:47:52.920 --> 0:47:58.120 about just the pure shock or titilation and and like okay, 0:47:58.120 --> 0:48:00.239 but what's actually sexy in a movie? Like how do 0:48:00.280 --> 0:48:04.640 you compose? Like you know, the work of intimacy coordinators 0:48:04.719 --> 0:48:08.399 and stuff like how do you make something hot? I'll 0:48:08.400 --> 0:48:13.800 give my answer to step Up Eat Mama Tambian. M hmm. Yeah, 0:48:14.480 --> 0:48:17.000 it sounds kind of sad though. That one always bums 0:48:17.000 --> 0:48:19.840 me out a little bit. Though we're not mutually exclusive 0:48:20.600 --> 0:48:27.640 exactly that you can play that game. So that's a 0:48:27.640 --> 0:48:30.719 great movie, I mean honestly, because I think anything with 0:48:30.760 --> 0:48:33.560 Marsh Chestnut and it is like by default just gonna 0:48:33.600 --> 0:48:36.480 be sexy, especially that era. But I do think that 0:48:36.560 --> 0:48:40.040 they there was a particularly interesting thing that they did 0:48:40.120 --> 0:48:42.320 with like the gender dynamics and that like in retrospect, 0:48:42.360 --> 0:48:44.960 not always perfect, but like there was interesting kind of 0:48:45.000 --> 0:48:47.440 play between the two of them, and I enjoy it 0:48:47.480 --> 0:48:51.120 back and forth, um like that. Yeah, it's totally. That 0:48:51.239 --> 0:48:55.520 is like a great screwball comedy. Yeah, like nineties screwball comedy. 0:48:56.080 --> 0:49:01.960 Love a Battle, Yeah, literally, just keep thinking of movies 0:49:02.000 --> 0:49:07.279 where people fight. It's just not even going to go there. 0:49:07.480 --> 0:49:09.680 It's also I mean, it's it's interesting when you think 0:49:09.680 --> 0:49:11.440 about in terms of directors who are good at it, 0:49:11.480 --> 0:49:13.640 Like I do think the car Own is really good 0:49:13.760 --> 0:49:18.000 at at at sex scenes. Um like two Momcomb and 0:49:18.040 --> 0:49:20.960 it's like, you know, one of the more memorable examples, 0:49:20.960 --> 0:49:22.879 but I think in general he's just like good at 0:49:22.960 --> 0:49:26.640 intimacy in movies. And I think that's such an interesting 0:49:26.719 --> 0:49:28.719 thing too, because I think it's really important to have 0:49:29.520 --> 0:49:33.000 directors who can who are like smart and sensitive about 0:49:33.040 --> 0:49:35.839 that stuff. But it also like sometimes you end up 0:49:35.880 --> 0:49:37.600 with a name to your line who I think is 0:49:37.640 --> 0:49:40.839 really good and depicting that stuff. But when you learn 0:49:40.880 --> 0:49:44.080 about how the sausage sausage was made, it's sometimes a 0:49:44.080 --> 0:49:45.879 little bit like, oh, sounds like it wasn't a fun 0:49:45.920 --> 0:49:48.239 set to be on. Sounds like people are really uncomfortable. 0:49:48.760 --> 0:49:52.280 So you know that's not always and that's not always 0:49:52.280 --> 0:49:56.200 apparent from from watching the thing itself. Like I can't 0:49:56.239 --> 0:50:00.200 imagine that the Three five Days director, whose name don't 0:50:00.239 --> 0:50:01.520 even have in front of me right now, but like, 0:50:01.920 --> 0:50:05.120 I can't imagine that they that this was a particularly 0:50:05.239 --> 0:50:07.880 nuanced or like progressive set, just because it's not a 0:50:07.880 --> 0:50:11.279 particularly nuance to progressive movie. But um, maybe it was. 0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:13.399 I don't know, we don't know, we don't know. I 0:50:13.480 --> 0:50:15.960 tell you who directed this movie, by the way, it's 0:50:16.040 --> 0:50:21.080 Barbara and Thomas Mandy's yes, and and and I like 0:50:21.200 --> 0:50:25.200 that it was written the writer's name is Blanca Lipinska. 0:50:26.120 --> 0:50:28.160 I mean, I think that kind of lends it a 0:50:28.200 --> 0:50:31.880 little bit of I don't know, not insulation. Like Duffy's 0:50:32.040 --> 0:50:36.080 letter was really obviously it was important to read that perspective. 0:50:36.200 --> 0:50:38.880 She had only recently talked about this publicly, about her 0:50:38.880 --> 0:50:41.960 experience of being kidnapped and abused and everything, so it 0:50:42.040 --> 0:50:45.840 was you know, I definitely respect that she took everyone 0:50:45.880 --> 0:50:47.600 to task for this, and it was something that I 0:50:47.640 --> 0:50:50.560 felt it was important to keep in mind, uh watching 0:50:50.600 --> 0:50:52.880 the movie. But I do think the fact that, like 0:50:52.960 --> 0:50:55.160 fifty Shades, it was written by a woman and it 0:50:55.239 --> 0:50:58.560 has like there's knowing that it kind of does inform 0:50:58.640 --> 0:51:01.520 like how you can choose to view the movie. Well, 0:51:02.080 --> 0:51:05.640 this is interesting though, because my big takeaway from this 0:51:05.680 --> 0:51:10.440 movie is that it is a girl boss porn for 0:51:11.239 --> 0:51:15.400 women to write a movie about sex. It is not 0:51:15.480 --> 0:51:22.680 necessarily like chill. Joel Just our producer Joel just chimed 0:51:22.719 --> 0:51:26.280 in on chat to suggest Bound by the Witchowski Sisters. 0:51:27.320 --> 0:51:29.920 The witch Howskis are also really really good at that stuff. 0:51:29.960 --> 0:51:31.800 I was just like going on and on about cloud 0:51:32.040 --> 0:51:34.560 Cloud out lists recently, which like for all its faults, 0:51:34.600 --> 0:51:37.640 I think is really good. It's just like intimacy. I 0:51:37.760 --> 0:51:40.600 just realized none of us have mentioned Portrait of a 0:51:40.680 --> 0:51:44.719 Lady on Fire. Everybody was what are horny for? I 0:51:45.280 --> 0:51:49.520 seen it and what I want to say. Also the Handmaiden, 0:51:50.400 --> 0:51:57.719 Oh yeah, m extremely good horny movie from recent times. Yeah, 0:51:57.719 --> 0:52:01.680 I think it's it's you know, people were really into 0:52:01.680 --> 0:52:04.600 showing saliva on screen when I went to a Vienne 0:52:04.640 --> 0:52:08.560 and like twenty whenever. Um, and a lot of like 0:52:08.600 --> 0:52:11.640 women especially we're very into like I want to show 0:52:11.680 --> 0:52:14.120 like crazy rough sex and like just because I'm a 0:52:14.120 --> 0:52:18.200 woman doesn't mean that I don't want to see that. Um, 0:52:18.239 --> 0:52:20.400 And so I think that, Yeah, I think this movie 0:52:20.560 --> 0:52:22.560 is like it's intended probably it's just sort of like 0:52:22.560 --> 0:52:28.080 a fantasy. Uh, it doesn't seem like a realistic depiction 0:52:28.120 --> 0:52:32.720 of maybe anything. Right. It's when you should see teens 0:52:33.000 --> 0:52:37.239 respond to it, especially on the TikTok Yeah, yeah, they're 0:52:37.480 --> 0:52:41.400 so Betty tik talks about this movie, um, and a 0:52:41.440 --> 0:52:43.759 lot of them are just about how Masson was like 0:52:43.800 --> 0:52:46.719 super hot or which like fine, but there's so many 0:52:46.760 --> 0:52:49.400 that are like you know, or tweets that are like 0:52:49.440 --> 0:52:51.719 it's always like you know, what are you doing? Never 0:52:51.840 --> 0:52:58.040 like want to recreate the gaps? And do you actually 0:52:58.040 --> 0:53:01.520 want to recreate you know? But it's just like it's 0:53:01.520 --> 0:53:03.840 just good joke for me. And I am also curious 0:53:03.920 --> 0:53:08.120 about like what a teen audience thinks of essentially like 0:53:08.480 --> 0:53:10.600 right now or with with other stuff that's kind of 0:53:10.640 --> 0:53:13.280 out there in this moment, like how do you necessarily 0:53:13.280 --> 0:53:16.160 watch normal people and then watch through sixty five days? 0:53:16.200 --> 0:53:19.799 Like where where does this fit kind of in that graph. Yeah, 0:53:19.840 --> 0:53:22.800 it's interesting that even though that you know, porn is 0:53:22.840 --> 0:53:25.839 accessible now and you can see like hardcore sex, you know, 0:53:25.920 --> 0:53:28.000 a lot of Like the thing about erotic thrillers was 0:53:28.040 --> 0:53:30.360 like these were movies you would see on premium cable 0:53:30.440 --> 0:53:33.360 late at night, and that was like, especially for girls, 0:53:33.400 --> 0:53:37.920 probably like your main access to anything pornographic unless you 0:53:38.120 --> 0:53:40.680 wanted to go to the store and buy something. But 0:53:40.760 --> 0:53:43.120 it's interesting that like even with as much access as 0:53:43.239 --> 0:53:46.440 kids have now that they still Yeah, it's like people 0:53:46.440 --> 0:53:50.560 like the romantic sex scenes um or the sex scenes 0:53:50.560 --> 0:53:53.640 is just a part of a narrative, you know, and 0:53:53.640 --> 0:53:57.040 then like the slow burned thing and everything. Yeah, they 0:53:57.080 --> 0:54:02.719 like they like raphoria, you know, the zooms, and then 0:54:02.760 --> 0:54:05.120 it's again like bring it back. But this is also 0:54:05.120 --> 0:54:07.680 a movie about wealth and like conspicuous wealth, and it's 0:54:07.680 --> 0:54:10.440 not just like somebody cannots you and takes you to 0:54:10.480 --> 0:54:12.239 their basic and it's like you're going to fall in 0:54:12.239 --> 0:54:14.960 love with me here and my like you know, dingy whatever, 0:54:15.160 --> 0:54:17.520 it's like fall in love with it. Honest, Yeah, you 0:54:17.560 --> 0:54:19.400 don't have to be here, but we're on and up. 0:54:19.520 --> 0:54:24.080 Isn't that cool? Yeah? Yeah, no, and it's it's it's 0:54:24.280 --> 0:54:26.439 I mean I end up thinking, I mean, I ended 0:54:26.480 --> 0:54:28.680 up thinking this about fifty shades. I end up thinking, 0:54:28.800 --> 0:54:32.200 I think it's really hard to have like for what 0:54:32.239 --> 0:54:34.560 I guess the erotic photos that are getting green light 0:54:34.680 --> 0:54:36.439 right now, it's it's hard for them to not feel 0:54:36.440 --> 0:54:39.239 like they're inevitably about capitalism and like working within it 0:54:39.280 --> 0:54:42.239 and like negotiating with a captor, like negotiating with like 0:54:42.239 --> 0:54:44.120 a system that you actually can't get out of. But 0:54:44.160 --> 0:54:45.920 then it tricks you into thinking that you have made 0:54:45.960 --> 0:54:52.440 a choice. Okay, we should definitely do show Girls sometime, Yeah, 0:54:52.480 --> 0:54:54.640 because I think it's about that. I think that's another 0:54:54.680 --> 0:54:56.920 movie that's like not at all sexy, but it's like 0:54:56.960 --> 0:54:59.879 it's not really about sex, it's about capital. And they're 0:55:00.040 --> 0:55:01.840 is this idea built into everything that like if you 0:55:01.880 --> 0:55:06.400 have enough money, you can buy anything you want, including people, 0:55:06.760 --> 0:55:10.640 as you know, sex objects. Uh that these movies are 0:55:10.680 --> 0:55:13.600 not critiquing. These movies are just like and that's great. 0:55:14.280 --> 0:55:17.320 I don't want to be like a sugar baby. Well, 0:55:17.600 --> 0:55:20.920 I actually like it. Maybe it's just like the confluence 0:55:20.920 --> 0:55:22.759 of watching these things at the same time. But like, 0:55:22.840 --> 0:55:25.000 just because I've been watching I made a story you 0:55:25.200 --> 0:55:28.600 right now. Um, I was just thinking about the like 0:55:28.719 --> 0:55:32.560 the weird kind of territory that these two work share oddly, 0:55:32.920 --> 0:55:35.600 especially when it comes to like, yeah, like what you 0:55:35.640 --> 0:55:39.360 think are your choices within a given set of parameters, 0:55:39.400 --> 0:55:42.760 and like what um like the idea of lost time, 0:55:43.280 --> 0:55:45.640 like she has in in in in three to sixty 0:55:45.719 --> 0:55:47.440 five days. She has some sort of heart conditions, so 0:55:47.480 --> 0:55:49.680 she's constantly swooning. And at first I'm like, oh, that's 0:55:49.680 --> 0:55:52.600 so goofy, like the swooning lady who keeps having to 0:55:52.600 --> 0:55:55.200 get rescued by this gangster. But then I was like, 0:55:55.280 --> 0:55:58.520 there's this weird sort of non linear feeling to it 0:55:58.560 --> 0:56:00.840 where it's just like and then I passed out and 0:56:00.880 --> 0:56:02.359 I woke up and I was on a yacht like, 0:56:02.440 --> 0:56:06.600 which is very like also Ebsteini too in a weird way. Like, 0:56:06.800 --> 0:56:10.040 but this idea of just like losing like truly losing 0:56:10.080 --> 0:56:13.920 agency at times and not even realizing it is really creepy. 0:56:14.080 --> 0:56:17.840 Like it's very um yeah, it's and I was just 0:56:17.840 --> 0:56:19.960 thinking about, like, you know, you could watch something that 0:56:20.000 --> 0:56:22.080 deals with that in a lot more like Nuance and 0:56:22.719 --> 0:56:25.640 with I May Destroy You. But those things are on 0:56:25.719 --> 0:56:30.839 my mind, I guess going in UM. I thought. One 0:56:30.880 --> 0:56:36.040 of the reasons I'm hypothesizing wildly here that people, especially 0:56:36.080 --> 0:56:39.320 teens might have connected more with three sixty five days 0:56:39.320 --> 0:56:41.759 than if it were presented to them at a time 0:56:41.800 --> 0:56:44.400 when they weren't under quarantine is it's also kind of 0:56:44.440 --> 0:56:49.160 a fantasy about not having to make any decisions, like 0:56:49.239 --> 0:56:52.759 the decision anxiety that we all feel, particularly when it 0:56:52.800 --> 0:56:56.560 comes to travel or being in unfamiliar surroundings or being 0:56:56.600 --> 0:56:59.200 around other people. I was like, because I was wondering 0:56:59.200 --> 0:57:00.760 at one point it was like, this kind of reminds 0:57:00.760 --> 0:57:02.960 me of the trip, like the trip to Italy, the 0:57:03.000 --> 0:57:05.280 trip degrees. I've been like rewatching some of the trips 0:57:05.360 --> 0:57:07.840 over quarantine because all I want to do is just 0:57:07.840 --> 0:57:11.480 see people in like unfamiliar places, places where I'm like, 0:57:11.600 --> 0:57:15.360 will I ever be able to leave doing the exact 0:57:15.360 --> 0:57:18.720 same thing but with below decks? Oh yeah, totally. UM 0:57:18.760 --> 0:57:21.640 The greatest show in the world UM on Bravo about 0:57:21.680 --> 0:57:24.360 people who work on a yacht. It's so good because 0:57:24.400 --> 0:57:27.520 it's about the people who work on the yacht rather 0:57:27.600 --> 0:57:30.680 than like the like is they're constantly like dogging on 0:57:30.680 --> 0:57:33.320 the rich people and being like who would pay for this? 0:57:33.600 --> 0:57:38.240 Like there's a podcast on iHeart right, Yes, I think 0:57:38.320 --> 0:57:41.320 Anna is on that. Maybe I wanted to say. Also, 0:57:41.400 --> 0:57:43.880 though it seems like just in that idea of being 0:57:43.920 --> 0:57:46.320 trapped in your house with your family, unless you live 0:57:46.320 --> 0:57:48.280 in like a high house, unless you're like a fully 0:57:48.480 --> 0:57:53.000 advanced team who uh lives by themselves in a high house, 0:57:53.520 --> 0:57:57.320 is that it's like fantasy is also about privacy in 0:57:57.400 --> 0:58:02.000 your head away from other Well. One of the most 0:58:02.040 --> 0:58:04.960 fraught things though right now is the fact that when 0:58:05.000 --> 0:58:07.439 you make a decision to leave your house at all, 0:58:07.920 --> 0:58:10.800 even just for your own survival, like to get food 0:58:10.920 --> 0:58:13.520 or you know, to seek like emergency medical treatment, there 0:58:13.640 --> 0:58:16.760 is the feeling that that could be a horrible decision 0:58:16.760 --> 0:58:19.080 that you're making. And I think, like, you know, at 0:58:19.120 --> 0:58:22.280 one point, um Laura says of Massimo that you know, 0:58:22.320 --> 0:58:24.400 one of the things that she really loves about him 0:58:24.520 --> 0:58:26.400 is that she feels like a little girl because she 0:58:26.440 --> 0:58:30.680 feels like protected and defended and basically she's like he 0:58:30.720 --> 0:58:33.040 makes he makes all of her decisions for her. They 0:58:33.040 --> 0:58:35.600 only fight when she like decides to make her own decision. 0:58:35.840 --> 0:58:39.800 Obviously that's a problematic thing in general, but right now, 0:58:39.920 --> 0:58:42.920 when it's so scary to make decisions, I think like 0:58:42.960 --> 0:58:45.880 the fantasy aspect of it is partially like someone shows 0:58:45.960 --> 0:58:48.040 up and they just put you here and they tell 0:58:48.120 --> 0:58:49.720 you to do this, and they tell you to do that, 0:58:50.200 --> 0:58:52.680 and you get you either enjoy it or you don't, 0:58:52.680 --> 0:58:55.800 but you don't have any responsibility for that decision making. 0:58:56.320 --> 0:58:58.840 I would pay so much money to bet for just 0:58:58.920 --> 0:59:01.920 like a man, right, And this is obviously not that 0:59:02.680 --> 0:59:05.800 very different. And also like if I could just assign 0:59:06.040 --> 0:59:10.600 somebody else's decision for a little lot, Yeah, it's the 0:59:10.680 --> 0:59:14.040 sub fantasy. I think the algorithm is part of that 0:59:14.040 --> 0:59:17.000 fantasy because I think people also want to be told 0:59:17.080 --> 0:59:22.480 what they should be watching. Yeah, a little bit. And yeah, 0:59:22.520 --> 0:59:25.280 I think that top ten works really well as just 0:59:25.400 --> 0:59:29.240 propaganda to make you be like, what is this? Shall 0:59:29.280 --> 0:59:34.920 I dive in? Other people like this? Right at lately? 0:59:35.000 --> 0:59:38.960 That is um like that you actually really genuinely love, right. 0:59:40.840 --> 0:59:42.720 I've also been watching I May Destroy You, I watched 0:59:42.840 --> 0:59:45.560 for West Night, um, I started see you one of 0:59:45.640 --> 0:59:48.440 true Detective because a friend recommended it and it has 0:59:48.440 --> 0:59:49.920 been trying to get to get me to watch it 0:59:49.960 --> 0:59:52.680 for ages and it's amazing, and also like I need 0:59:52.720 --> 0:59:55.280 to find another show because I can't only be watching 0:59:55.280 --> 1:00:01.720 I may destrow you in True Detectives. So I'm I'm 1:00:01.760 --> 1:00:04.240 probably gonna start below Deck to kind of counter down. 1:00:04.400 --> 1:00:07.600 Oh yeah, because it can't. It's right now, it's pretty. 1:00:07.640 --> 1:00:11.640 It's pretty literally like those two things. And then my 1:00:11.680 --> 1:00:14.400 partner not and I watched Dexter every night, which is 1:00:14.440 --> 1:00:20.800 like lovely and also again, yeah, this is like hardcore 1:00:20.920 --> 1:00:24.920 because my preferences are so far outside of that normally, 1:00:24.960 --> 1:00:27.360 I'm like, what rom com is there? Like is there 1:00:27.360 --> 1:00:30.240 a show? Can I watch something? And now I found 1:00:30.280 --> 1:00:33.760 myself watching three like very heavy and like lightly murder 1:00:33.920 --> 1:00:39.240 slash Crimes. Yeah, yeah, always one, like one of the 1:00:39.320 --> 1:00:41.880 first shows I remember I couldn't eat while I was 1:00:41.920 --> 1:00:45.000 watching it. There was too gross, Like I'll season four 1:00:45.040 --> 1:00:46.520 and I'm like, how did I get here? I can't 1:00:47.120 --> 1:00:50.880 do I'm not good at like murders show like violence, 1:00:50.920 --> 1:00:53.320 it doesn't you know. But we watched Barry before that, 1:00:53.360 --> 1:00:54.920 and I was like, this is funny. I can maybe 1:00:54.920 --> 1:01:00.680 do another serial Pillent Show and Dexter's Bloodier. You're getting 1:01:00.720 --> 1:01:03.920 all of Emily's respect for what having like the slate 1:01:05.760 --> 1:01:09.160 I just need to read. This is not I don't 1:01:09.160 --> 1:01:11.720 think any of us are on our usual slates though 1:01:11.840 --> 1:01:15.720 right now we're all branching out in ways. I truly. 1:01:16.040 --> 1:01:18.760 I just watched Below Deck and I'm at like different 1:01:18.840 --> 1:01:23.280 points in the timeline because I go to the earlier seasons. 1:01:23.880 --> 1:01:26.280 I just watched the pilot yesterday for the first time, 1:01:26.320 --> 1:01:29.360 and yeah, it's just they're always somewhere you want to be. 1:01:30.280 --> 1:01:33.880 It's always like, you know, they're in the south of France. 1:01:34.160 --> 1:01:36.800 Is that water there in can? Right? I can use 1:01:36.800 --> 1:01:39.680 another Love Island season, honestly, I would like for one 1:01:39.760 --> 1:01:44.840 to materialize. You watched that, right, Molly, You're Love Island. 1:01:44.880 --> 1:01:48.040 Oh yeah, I find British reality television too. But then 1:01:48.200 --> 1:01:50.680 that also, like Love Islands, some funked up stuff happened 1:01:50.920 --> 1:01:54.160 with the host and uh, nothing is like just pure 1:01:54.240 --> 1:01:59.560 escape isn't anymore? And also Toast of London. I was 1:01:59.600 --> 1:02:03.160 going to say, the opposite one of everything you've been 1:02:03.160 --> 1:02:06.480 watching is Toast of London. You know what else is 1:02:06.480 --> 1:02:10.040 what what we do in the shadows? I find to 1:02:10.120 --> 1:02:13.800 be like so silly and enjoyable. Yeah, just like silly 1:02:13.840 --> 1:02:16.760 stuff is good right now, I think, yeah, it's that 1:02:16.880 --> 1:02:20.280 weird stuff that weird. Yeah, like it's so it just 1:02:20.320 --> 1:02:23.600 makes me happy, which is like I'm trying to watch something. 1:02:24.760 --> 1:02:27.040 But I would argue that three sixty five days is 1:02:27.120 --> 1:02:31.840 that for me, especially the line that you like, I 1:02:31.880 --> 1:02:33.760 was very glad you highlighted and like, I'm not a 1:02:33.800 --> 1:02:39.919 bag of potatoes that you I cackled. I cackled during 1:02:39.920 --> 1:02:45.560 this review, So maybe it was like my friends about it. 1:02:46.080 --> 1:02:48.120 Honestly might have been my I don't remember what time, 1:02:48.720 --> 1:02:51.440 you know, conversations are anymore. But whoever responded to it 1:02:51.640 --> 1:02:54.920 like that's really European to reference potatoes and an argument? 1:02:57.920 --> 1:03:01.160 Oh my god. So it sounds like what you guys 1:03:01.200 --> 1:03:04.080 are saying is that three and sixty five days fails 1:03:04.120 --> 1:03:08.320 as an erotic thriller but succeeds as a horror comedy. 1:03:08.440 --> 1:03:13.160 That's actually maybe right, Yeah, that's true. It's in the ballpark. Yeah, 1:03:13.320 --> 1:03:17.959 I'll give it. Sounds good. Well, thank you so much 1:03:18.080 --> 1:03:21.640 for joining us this sweet onna. Um. Where can people 1:03:21.680 --> 1:03:25.760 find you online? Um? As we mentioned, you're on at 1:03:25.760 --> 1:03:28.880 the Atlantic as a staff writer. But yeah, yes, I'm 1:03:28.920 --> 1:03:34.360 also unfortunately still on Twitter very periodically. Often we can't 1:03:34.360 --> 1:03:37.560 help it. I know it's well everyone's while go off, 1:03:37.600 --> 1:03:39.640 but now is not one of those times. UM. So 1:03:39.680 --> 1:03:44.040 it's the open like I and any difference ending I 1:03:44.080 --> 1:03:48.920 will change it one of these days days not that day. Um, 1:03:49.120 --> 1:03:55.960 that's obviously. UM. Well, yeah, I think this is so fun. 1:03:55.960 --> 1:04:00.280 I was so glad to have you on us. I'm 1:04:00.320 --> 1:04:05.360 so sorry for doing this to you. You cannot say 1:04:05.400 --> 1:04:09.200 how thankful weird. Yeah, you took us aboard your yacht, 1:04:10.800 --> 1:04:14.720 showed us your heart. Thank you getting wet probably for 1:04:16.400 --> 1:04:20.400 very long time. Well, thank you so much on it, 1:04:20.480 --> 1:04:22.520 and we will hope to have you back again soon. 1:04:22.760 --> 1:04:25.840 And thank you for listening to Nightcall. We'll be back 1:04:25.880 --> 1:04:28.560 next week. We can find us on social media at 1:04:28.800 --> 1:04:32.280 Nightcall pot on Twitter, Nightcalled Podcasts on Instagram and Facebook. 1:04:33.040 --> 1:04:35.840 Subscribe to us on iTunes and leave us a rating 1:04:35.880 --> 1:04:39.040 and review please, we would appreciate it very much. You 1:04:39.080 --> 1:04:42.400 can also support us on Patreon at patreon dot com 1:04:42.400 --> 1:04:46.280 slash Nightcall, where you can get our newsletter, books, episodes, 1:04:46.440 --> 1:04:50.320 merch and all sorts of fun stuff. And we will 1:04:50.360 --> 1:05:15.320 see you all next week. By