1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Lesbian robot Dogs of the World Unite. It's one more thing. 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 2: Thing, lesbian robot dogs. 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: That's that's the short version. During the show, we talked 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: about this paper, this academic paper that just came out 5 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: that has caught people's attention, and folks sent us a 6 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: link to just the beginning of it, which is the abstract. 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: I guess it describes what the paper is. But to 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: actually get access to it either had to pay a 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: fee or have a sign on, and one of our 10 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: beloved listeners is accessed it and got us the whole thing. 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: Here's the title of this Some bitch Queer Canine Becomings 12 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: Lesbian Feminist cyborg Politics and Interspecies Intimacies in Ecologies of 13 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: Love and Violence. 14 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 3: Oh, they have to be trolling that I know. 15 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: It's by Chloe Diamond Lenau, who is an actual professor 16 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: at Eastern at the American University, which is in New 17 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: York or somewhere. 18 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: That sounds as one hundred percent as crazy as those 19 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: fake papers that James Lindsay and his friends put out, yes, 20 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 2: which which makes his point that things are so off 21 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 2: the rails that you can't tell the difference between something 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 2: that's real and what's not. 23 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, exaggeration is completely impossible. God you can do is 24 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: what they did, and that's like equal the insanity, except 25 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: yours is completely fake. But nobody can tell which makes 26 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: the point. But you know, I feel like I ought 27 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: to read the abstract, but it's so long. I'll hit 28 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: you with it because Jack said, I, you know, it'd 29 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: be interesting to get that whole paper and see how 30 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: much sense it made on any level. And you're right. 31 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: But so here's the abstract. This article offers a queer 32 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: lesbian feminist analysis attuned to lesbian, queer trans canine relationalities. 33 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: And that really sounds like chicks having sex with dogs? 34 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: Is it not beastiality? 35 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: I just I can't believe they're expecting me to plo 36 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: through another queer lesbian feminist analysis to into lesbian queer 37 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: trans canine relation analities. 38 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 3: I just want to let you know this chick's pronouns 39 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 3: are she. They. 40 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: I like that. 41 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: I like your your activist pieces of crazy ass Marxist garbage. 42 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: Who who throw you the curveball of she? And you're 43 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: thinking her? But no, no, I use she and they. 44 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 2: If you call me her, I will be insulted. 45 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 3: I'm looking at her Facebook, her profile picture is a 46 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 3: purple fist with a banner that says, professor of lesbian 47 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 3: dance theory. 48 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: I don't mind watching lesbian's dance. That's my only theory. 49 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 2: And somebody who makes a living doing that, yes, gets 50 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: paid dance theory. 51 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, to indoctrinate children into this incoherent gobbledegook of theory. Okay, 52 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: So I just that was like that was first sentence. Specifically, 53 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: the article places queer and lesbian ecofeminism in conversation with 54 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: Donna Harroway's work on the Cyborgan companion species to theorize 55 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: the interconnected queer becomings of people, nature, animals, and machines 56 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: amidst ecologies of love and violence in the twenty twenties. 57 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: It takes two key case studies as the focus for analysis. First, 58 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: the state instrumentalization of dogs and robot dogs for racialized 59 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: and imperial violence. Oh, you got a little race in 60 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: there too. I didn't see that coming. I mean, you 61 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: got lesbian robot dogs. You wouldn't think there's time to 62 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: work race in But that's where you'd be wrong. Let's see. 63 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: In the second I'm sorry. In the first article, did 64 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: I say that already? The article traces how dogs are 65 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: weabonized as tools of state violence and proposes a queer 66 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: lesbian feminist critique of white supremacy and militarization that can 67 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: also extend to a critique of the violence committed through 68 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: and toward the dogs. In the second whoop, the article 69 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: analyzes how within lesbian, non binary and trans dog intimacies 70 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: got to stop there, don't we again? 71 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: They're having sights with dogs? Get to the fun part. 72 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 2: Really just started discussing that. 73 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: Transdog intimacies does Does that mean like transgender dogs? That's 74 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:20,239 Speaker 1: like a former boy dog who's now an alleged bitch. 75 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: I prefer to use the technical term. 76 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: I was taking it as the interactions between trans people 77 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:25,799 Speaker 2: and dogs. 78 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 3: See I was with Joe. I sounded like a trans 79 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 3: dog to me. 80 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: In the second the article analyzes how within lesbian, non 81 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: berry binary and transdog intimacies, dogs help articulate I think 82 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: you're right, Jay, queer gender sexuality and kinship formations and 83 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: as such, queer worlds for gender sexual and kin becomings. 84 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: Entanglements of violence and love in these queer dog relationalities 85 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: provide insights into the complexities of queer and lesbian feminists, 86 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: feminist world building, and finally, lesbian and queer feminist cyborg 87 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: politics can help theorize the potentials and challenges of these interspecies. 88 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 2: And so I'm going to take at least a shot 89 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 2: at what I think this is. 90 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: I appreciate the cyborgs in the end because it was. 91 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 3: Wondering where the hell where did they come from? 92 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: I would be back you remember that that was great. 93 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: I think they believe that that because of our systemic 94 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: racism and culture, dogs are raised in such a way 95 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: to not be friendly to the trans lesbian community, and 96 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: they have some concern that the robot dogs that are 97 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: coming our way are going to be the same. And 98 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 2: then when you end up with robot people like cyborgs, 99 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 2: now you're going to have the robot dogs who are 100 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 2: home transphobic, poorly treating the robot humans. 101 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: What. 102 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 2: That's my guess that what this paper is about. The hell. 103 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: I think you may number one. I am impressed. 104 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I admire you even being able to 105 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 3: some analyze that. 106 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: I think you may be one notch off. And I'll 107 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: repeat the lessons lesbian in queer feminist cyborg politics can 108 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: help theorize the potentials and challenges of these interspecies entanglements. Well, no, 109 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: I think yeah, so so the relationship of a trans 110 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 1: person with a dog, robot or otherwise can. 111 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: Dogs are being raised to be transach and they're concerned 112 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 2: that when we have robot dogs and robot people it 113 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: will continue. Then we'll have transphobic robot dogs. How are 114 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 2: you trans if you're a robot though a person? What 115 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 2: difference does it make once you're a robot? 116 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 3: What are we talking about? 117 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I'm with, Kenny. I'm reminded of 118 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: you know, you get somebody who's like a complete psychopath 119 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: and does all these weird things, and people say, what 120 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: were they thinking? No, no, you can't come up with 121 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: a rational explanation for the irrational. You're wasting your time. 122 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 2: You gotta pick out Michael. 123 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: No, I was just thinking, this is why I took 124 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: aerobics in college. Yeah, bowling, all right, I'm just going 125 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: to pick a sentence or two at random. At the 126 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: same time, it offers a model for a postgender world 127 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: that can be ironically blasphemous and subverts its origins in 128 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: the appropriation of women's bodies in a masculinist orgy of war, 129 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: and other oppressive traditions, including the tradition of racist, male 130 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: dominated capitalism, the tradition of progress, the tradition of the 131 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: appropriation of nature is a resource for the production of culture, 132 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: the tradition of reproduction of the self from the reflections 133 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: of the other. One thing they sought to spend more 134 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: time studying is grammar like throwing a period now and again, right, 135 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: so I can break it down by phrase, masculinist orgy 136 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: of war. 137 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:52,559 Speaker 2: That's a good band. 138 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw them at the Warfield San Francisco. 139 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, wow. 140 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 3: I she wrote this out and then threw it into 141 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 3: chat GPT and just said, make this as wordy and 142 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 3: confusing as humanly possible. 143 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 2: I would love to take a class with one of 144 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 2: these people. 145 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: Love it. 146 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: God, I gotta see if I can take a class, like, 147 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 2: I'm sure my universe sty has this sort of stuff 148 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: in the town I live in, UC Davis. Take one 149 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: of these classes and ask sincere sounding questions like just 150 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 2: fully indulge their bullshit. Oh my god, you've really hit 151 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 2: something here with me. The masculine orgy of war or 152 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 2: whatever that phrase was expound on that for me with you. 153 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 2: Just let them go on with their right. 154 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: What's revealing about this and so interesting and odd is 155 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: that this is again, I just picked another sentence at random. 156 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: In doing so, the article develops a queer and lesbian 157 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: feminist approach to living in coalition with the more than 158 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: human with attention to what Stevens and Sprinkle name in 159 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: this journal issue is cosensing an ethical embodied motive relating 160 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: to the earth. It's the tune of the sensorial and 161 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: activated through the erotic playfulness and joy. Every single sentence 162 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: is so I mean, just stuffed full of jargon. Yeah, 163 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: it can mean whatever they say it means, or mean 164 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: nothing at all. 165 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 2: I'm so happy to have become tutored by James Lindsay 166 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 2: and his books and his tweets about how this is 167 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: on purpose to make you feel dumb, because I no 168 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 2: longer feel dumb when I hear this stuff. I realize 169 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 2: you're trying to You're trying to, you know, pull the 170 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 2: wool over my eyes by using a bunch of phrases 171 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: and words that don't mean anything or only mean something 172 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 2: to you and make me feel dumb. So I'll sit 173 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 2: here and listen to this crap, right, and I don't 174 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 2: feel that way anymore, which is good. 175 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, it almost becomes a riddle. All right, what are 176 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: they talking about? I'm reminded, you know, we got we 177 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: did not get enough mileage out of the cliff that 178 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: came out. Might have been during the crazy Columbia demonstrations 179 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: like last winter, in which one of the leaders of 180 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: the up with terrorism, which is actually just down with 181 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: Western civilization. All of this boils down to tearing down 182 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: Western civilization. And this gal, because of course it's an 183 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: angry woman, was saying, you've learned your colonialist theory and 184 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: your gender theory, and your queer theory and your Marxist 185 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: theory or whatever. It's time to take all of your 186 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: theories and put them into action. And that was a 187 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: really good kind of summary what all of this is, 188 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: All of those wackadoodal theories that fall under critical theory 189 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: are all just different ways to attack Western civilization and 190 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: bring it to its knees so you can infiltrate it 191 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: and usher in your Marxist utopia. And all of this 192 00:10:51,080 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: stuff is what that looks like inside the sausage factory. 193 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 2: Shuh, I tell you this. I ain't gonna pay for 194 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 2: my kid to sit in one of those classrooms and 195 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 2: learn that crap. It ain't gonna happen. If they somehow 196 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 2: decide they really want that, they'll have to take out 197 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: a loan or figure it out on their own. 198 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: One more, Just one more, can I please? Lesbian feminism 199 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: integrated with queer ecofeminism, animal studies and critical posthumanisms provide 200 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: tools to rethink non heteropatriarchal relations across more than human realms. 201 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 1: Queer ecofeminism involves liberating the erotic alongside nature queers and women, 202 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: challenging the hierarchical dualisms that link mind, body, reason, emotion, man, woman, 203 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: you can't bipoc human, animal, nature, culture and heterosexual queer. 204 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 2: It's almost impossible to believe it's real. It's almost impossible 205 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 2: to believe it's real. 206 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 3: I'm convinced for being trolled. 207 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: By this she they I can believe that somewhere in 208 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: a marria there's a crazy old man tunelessly playing the 209 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 1: saw you ever seen anybody playing? I can believe that 210 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: and accept it. The idea that someone's paying them to 211 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: do that and they have tenure. That's where it gets 212 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: crazy to me. And that's what this stuff is. 213 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: The most important thing we learned from today's podcast that 214 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 2: the purple fist represents what Katie. 215 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 3: Oh sand circulat. 216 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 4: Break Yeah, professor of lesbian dance theory. Yes, the purple 217 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 4: fist is lesbian dance theory. Or as Joey said, your 218 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 4: Scornchy's too tight around your wrist, you mind. 219 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 3: Crutchy's too tight. 220 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: Bad mittens another easy three units instead of this crap. 221 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 2: Well, I guess that's it.