1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: The ambulance pulls into the emergency entrance of Spanish Peaks 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: Hospital and I'm pushed into the tiny hospital room. I 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: can hear Dylan being brought in and I call out 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: to him, Hey, buddy, Haley, Haley. When the boys get excited, 5 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: Hay and Lee become combined, forming the name Haley. What 6 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: are you doing? I say, this is more of a 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: greeting than anything else. Are you all right? Yeah? I'm okay, 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: but it was just a forty cow through and through. 9 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: Dylan is wheeled away, and I know he will be fine. 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: His right arm is fractured and he has road rash 11 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: from flying out the back of window and smacking the pavement. 12 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,959 Speaker 1: But besides that, he's absolutely fine. My wound is still 13 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: hurting me. The door's open and I can see Ryan. 14 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: He looks dazed and his neck is in a huge brace. 15 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: I yell out to Ryan and repeat almost exactly what 16 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: I said to Dylan. My mind is starting to play 17 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: tricks on me. I don't feel like this is reality. 18 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: It can't be soon. There are fifty or more officers 19 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: and staff milling around, peeking in at me and making 20 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: comments under their breath. They all seem excited, even happy. 21 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: Here one say we caught the Docherty Gang. I can't 22 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: believe it. Little old Walsonburg p D. I look away 23 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: in sigh. A nice older male nurse comes over and 24 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: tells me they're moving me across the hall. I will 25 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: be right next to Dylan and Ryan, so of course 26 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: I get excited. Welcome to the Docherty Gang, a production 27 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Katie Studios, Episode nine Bars 28 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: of Xanax. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a crime producer at Katie 29 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: Studios with Stephanie lie Decker. We've been working with producer 30 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: Beth Greenwald on The Docherty Gang for months now. These 31 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 1: three siblings have agreed to tell their story for the 32 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: very first time, each from separate prisons. Lee Grace Docherty 33 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: is at the Federal Correction Institute Aliceville in Alabama. Ryan 34 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: Docherty is in the U S Penitentiary Tucson in Arizona, 35 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: and Dylan Docherty is at the Federal Correction Institute in Bennettsville, 36 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: South Carolina. Let's call which from a side of us. 37 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: You know, we're young kids, we're dumb, we're inexperienced as 38 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: far as both the consequences of what's coming. And then 39 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, man, they just like expect you to know, 40 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: like you know, what's illegal and what's not right. But 41 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: there's no public safety announcement you know, over the television 42 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: once a day that says, hey, if you're eighteen, don't 43 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: suck a fifteen year old chick. Hey if you rob 44 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 1: a bank, you're going to get forty years. You know. Hey, 45 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: there's there's there's nothing, there's none of that. It's just 46 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: like the society just depends on your parents to drill 47 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: these things into And it's not that my mom didn't interested. 48 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, we probably just never saw in the 49 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: cards for us. After an eight day fifteen state pursued, 50 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: including two shootouts with police and a bank robbery, the 51 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: dopertees were arrested in Colorado, and law enforcement was more 52 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: than eager to speak with them. The FBI questions them first, 53 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: followed by the Florida authorities, who flew out immediately after 54 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: they were captured. Here's Pascal County Detective Tim Harris. We 55 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: initially wanted to talk to Ryan because the information that 56 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: we had gleaned from from our investigation back here was 57 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: he was kind of the not necessarily the weak link, 58 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: because in actuality, he was the one that had had 59 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: caused the whole circumstance with with him getting put on 60 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: probation cutting off his ankle bracelet. We were told as 61 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: we were trying to set up that interview that Ryan 62 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: had been contacted by an attorney out there and that 63 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: he didn't want to talk to law enforcement. And so 64 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: of course we explained to our counterparts there at the 65 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: Sheriff's office that he needed to verbalize that to either 66 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: one of them or to us directly, obviously, that he 67 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: was asserting his Fifth Amendment rights and that he didn't 68 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: want to talk to us, which he did. They went 69 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: back contact and he said, Nope, I'm not I don't 70 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: want to talk to anyone. So we moved on to 71 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: Lee Grace, and she was the first interview that we 72 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: uh that we did that day, and that was on 73 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: the August eleventh. I believe I'd like to talk to 74 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: about what happened, okay. Started from actually the August the 75 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: second song came about and until it at the very end, 76 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: he says, you're a custody I have to read your rights. Okay. 77 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: Lee Grace and Dylan both waved their rights to an 78 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: attorney and spoke with the Pascal County authorities. You know 79 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: what was what was the plan? There was no plan. 80 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: It was kind of you know, Ryan's like that he 81 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: was ancle bracelet all everybody, We'll see my son, my son, 82 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: my son and my son. That was just the whole problem. 83 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: What was he talked about? Was he what was his 84 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: ancle bracelet? He was like, how could this judge does 85 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: to me? He's like, how is this happening? You know? 86 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: And Dylan's just like he was rolroading. He was roilroaded. 87 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: And the lawyer, the lawyer lawyer, because you know, when 88 00:04:54,320 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: you paid where twenty somethings do you expect some good results. 89 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: You kind of go into a situation knowing, Okay, this 90 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: is gonna be bad, it's gonna be good. You know what, 91 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: someone convinced you, Okay, this is gonna be a good situation. 92 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: You kind of wanted something. It turns around really fast. 93 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: You're kind of like, you know, you get choked up. 94 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: And I didn't want to ask my little brother going 95 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: to prison. I mean, I love ah, I heard I 96 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 1: don't want anything bad to happen to him. Here's Dylan 97 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:26,799 Speaker 1: being interrogated by detectives. Obviously, he made a huge, huge 98 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: decision in in doing what he did by by cutting 99 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: the bracelet off and leaving. I mean, did he not 100 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: consider that the repercussions of that would be even worse 101 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: than what the situation he was in? I mean, what 102 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: was his line of thinking, we just want to get 103 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: him away. I'm not saying it didn't matter. Oh yeah, 104 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: I guess technically it really it really wouldn't. I mean, well, 105 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: and that's what I'm sorry to him with it with 106 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: state prosecuting attorney there and my brother's lawyer and two 107 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: other guys that they bought him from where he did. 108 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 1: I mean, my brother said he was about, you know, 109 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: his bathroom and his pants. You know, this this big 110 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: it's a big ordeal. Man. He was so stressed out 111 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: of that field forever. Man, it's a life changing the experience. 112 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: And he said that they were here laughing like man, 113 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: just like they had just come from playing golf together 114 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: or something, and they lovely did and the judge was 115 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: like the judge was like, oh, we're on shard, but 116 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: you're just gonna have to do it. And there was 117 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: no way my brother was gonna go to do it. 118 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: They were setting him out from bad. They're give him 119 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: just enough rope paying himself. Man Lee Grace spoke coyly 120 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: during her interrogation. Basically, when you guys left Jeffrey Hills, 121 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: you went on the run. I mean you were gone, 122 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: and that's what we want to know. If you remember 123 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: where you did, how you ended up here in yamp 124 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: We love the state and it's really nice, pretty and 125 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,559 Speaker 1: were camping. That's all I remember. But the Pascal County 126 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: detectives really wanted to know about the chase with the 127 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: police cruiser. Do you remember where you drove to when 128 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: you left Zufford Hills For some reason, We're going south, 129 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: you know, and then Ryan's going like eight miles over 130 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: Jons like slow down, slow down, slow. Ryan was driving 131 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: and Dylan's like slow down. And then there were lights 132 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: and then it just kind of everything just kind of 133 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,679 Speaker 1: goes black. I mean, the patrol corps behind you, sat 134 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: back seat. What what did you see the lights activate? Hey, 135 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: we're being stopped. Yeah, I think he I think he 136 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: turned his lights on when he passed. I think he 137 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: passed us at one point that he got behind us. Okay, 138 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: all right, what happens that I wish I could be 139 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: more helpful. I just Detective Tim Harris press Lee race 140 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: for answers. Was deny shots fired when he took the 141 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: right Um. I mean I talked to that I a 142 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: lot yesterday. I mean, I really I told him everything 143 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: that I wanted to really say, you know, out lay 144 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: at present, because I really I don't hurt any more people. 145 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: I don't want to get any more people in trouble. 146 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: You're in trouble. You're in da trouble, and you know that, 147 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: you and your brothers. I thought, if someone said, okay, 148 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: if you tell us them, is that'tly what happened? We'll 149 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: caught you a deal. You know, we'll get your reduced 150 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: and sentence. But I don't mean it's gonna happen. You 151 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: guys are smart. You guys already know what happening. The 152 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: great Psyche I was telling you what it's about is 153 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: is that and the reason that we sit down and 154 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: we talk with people that end up being in your 155 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: situation is is that if we don't get the explanation 156 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: though the series of events from you as you remember 157 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: they happened, there may be stuff out there that you 158 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: get blamed for that. You didn't do you see what 159 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: I mean? And I obviously we don't want that to happen. 160 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: I mean, that's one of them. But if I tell 161 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: you was shooting, what was shot at? Why are we shot? 162 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: You're into gonna it's not it's not gonna come back 163 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: to me. I mean, I'm not gonna say I had 164 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: no part in this. I had. It was three people. 165 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: I was thirty three shirt at home. And but see, 166 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: that's that's what we want, that's what we want to know. 167 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: You know right now? Can you talk to one of 168 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: them and asked them, because I will, but they'll say, well, 169 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: you know, we lovely Grace, but she's a drug addict 170 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: and she needs happen. You don't talk to the talk 171 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: to the ones that no one's going on. I take 172 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: in enough drugs to put five people down. I take 173 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: in approximately x bars oh cars, which are Jenny bar 174 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: yes bars, So I had taken approximately twenty five of those. 175 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: The detectives turn their attention back to Dylan. When the 176 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: officer pulled it behind you and you turn on the 177 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: D four. How many shots did you fire in the ford? 178 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: Do you remember? I mean, if you don't I don't remember, okay, 179 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: six seven, I don't honestly don't remember. Okay, So when 180 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: you're traveling down with the D four, what happens there's 181 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: Alan road riding here, there's Alan called Alan run. What 182 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: happens in that area gives us some more shots? Bart 183 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: good if you don't remember, just fe understandably. Pascal County 184 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: detectives were growing frustrated. You know, we're talking about weapons. 185 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: Do you remember back at the house when you when 186 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: you put the weapons, howding the weapons getting in the vehicle? 187 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: I'm assuming they were in the vehicle because you see 188 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: any had them with you, right, I guess I quit 189 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: them in there. Well, I don't want to guess. Just 190 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 1: just let me know what happened. I didn't. I was 191 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: gonna they were something I could sell, something I could 192 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: turn in the car, or something that helped, just like 193 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: you know, something that you had a partner with. What's 194 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: your thought process at the time when when you guys 195 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: are being stopped? Uh is or is anybody saying anything 196 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: as far as let's not stop? Did you ask your 197 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: brother drying to stop? Okay, well, what happened? Can you 198 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: tell me what happened? But who decided to fire the shots. Dylan, 199 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: who decided to fire the shots. Nobody got hurt. Nobody 200 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: got hurt. After a long pause, still and finally answered 201 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 1: Detective Harris's question, it was it was me I shot 202 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: the cop car. Is that? Do you remember what with 203 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: the first time? What weapon did you have in your 204 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: hand the first time? Do you remember? I don't want 205 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: to tell me. I don't. I really don't remember. All right, Um, well, 206 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: can you tell me how many weapons were in the 207 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: car at the time. Quite a few, I don't remember. 208 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,719 Speaker 1: I didn't have like a finger count. Okay, so you're 209 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: just trying to disable his car from you gonna trying 210 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: to hurt him. Tell me, did you know what you did? 211 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: You shot? I was tired, okay? Is left front tire? 212 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: I want flat? Okay, that's that's great. The right time, 213 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: I would have kind of been half right, Okay. Did 214 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,719 Speaker 1: anyone else in the car fire a weapon? It was me, 215 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: just fre I guess I've pant freaked out whatever, I 216 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: just I didn't. I just wanted Here's Beth speaking with 217 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: Officer Widener. It seems like they were kind of firing recklessly, 218 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: but they did hit the car quite a bit. Do 219 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: you think if they wanted to when you round in 220 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: that corner, that they could have caused you harm directly 221 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: you've shot you. I guess it all depends on how 222 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: good of a shot the person is, you know, And honestly, uh, 223 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what they were thinking. 224 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: Dylan fire twenty times with an assault weapon on the 225 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: police officer. Here's lawyer and gun expert Jay Maysh. I'm 226 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: very skeptical of the ability of someone in a speeding 227 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: car to shoot out the tire of another speeding car. 228 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: That would be one hell of a shot. So perhaps 229 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 1: one of those cars was stationary at the time. Uh, 230 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: I don't know the answer, or maybe it was a 231 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: lucky shot, but it would be most unusual that this 232 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: business of shooting out the tires of a car happens 233 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: in the movies. Is it possible if one of the 234 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: cars were stationary, the Doughertees were ahead of the police 235 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: patrol car and pulled around an embankment, and when that 236 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: car came around the bend, he shot the tire out. 237 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: I suppose that's you know, if you said if the 238 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: shot were set up that way, I suppose that's perfectly 239 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: possible to do that, but everything would have to be 240 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: moving at near zero speed in order to be accurate. 241 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: You know, you can always be lucky, you can, you know, 242 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: Lee Harvey Oswald. Some people say it was the greatest 243 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: shot in the world, and other people say he he 244 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: was lucky. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll 245 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: be back at a moment. Detective Kevin Widener, who was 246 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: chasing the Doughertys, was interviewed on the local news. I 247 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: look forward to seeing these criminals received the punishment they 248 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: are due for putting my life in danger as well 249 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: as many citizens. They showed total disregardful. Widener is married 250 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: and has a seven month old child. He says he's 251 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: never been shot at until last week. Detective Tim Harris 252 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: shared something more from the interrogation. I don't want to 253 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: call it sincere, but it sounded sincere. Dylan said, just 254 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: tell the officer and Zephyr Hills. I'm sorry. Here's Pascal 255 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: County Sheriff Chris Naco. Those three made the decisions they made. 256 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: Maybe they grew up in an environment that didn't teach 257 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: those type of things, you know, which is, you know, 258 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: it's bad for anybody out to do that, but at 259 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: some point in everybody's life they have to make decisions. 260 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: So unfortunately our society, you know we're trying, we will 261 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: often shifts blame away from the person who actually makes 262 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: that decision, and that's the person of our needs to 263 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: go back to that they made a conscious decisions for 264 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: guns in the vehicle to drive in to shoot at 265 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: law enforcement. Offering up a different perspective. Psychotherapist and the armstrong. Now, 266 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: when someone experiences significant ongoing trauma in their childhood, their 267 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: brains develop in different ways so that there response, an 268 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: ability to gauge threat is heightened, so their fight flight 269 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: freeze response is heightened. Their ability to decipher risk and 270 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: then use the part of their brain that helps them 271 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: with judgment and rational thinking is less active. So when 272 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: that part of the brain that responds to threat is activated, 273 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: the part of the brain that it uses reason and 274 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: judgment is diminished. And so you see that kind of 275 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: showing up in hasty decisions or risky behavior. It also 276 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: shows up in drug abuse or anxiety disorders or depression. 277 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: After the interrogations, the Doperties were held at the jail 278 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: in Wolsenburg, Colorado, tonight, three Pasco County siblings wanted in 279 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: Florida and also in Georgia, are being held on one 280 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: point three million dollars bond a piece in Colorado. They're 281 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: each charged with attempted murder and assault on a police officer. 282 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: Now the family will face charges together in three separate states. Now, 283 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: despite all the gunfire aimed at law enforcement, fortunately no 284 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: officers were hurt. As for the doorties, it remains unclear 285 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: just which state will actually get to try them. Here's 286 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: Beth Greenwald speaking with Ryan. So, when do you first 287 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: get arraigned? How many days after you're taken into customy 288 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: the act day you always go for your first appearance, right, 289 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 1: and then you go shortly after that for arraignment and 290 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: then install stall stall delay tactics in order to get um. 291 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: The judicial system always works like this, doesn't matter where 292 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: you go at universal, you go your very first day 293 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: the next day for first appearance. That's like mandatory, that's 294 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: sancor sank right. Then you move from there to like 295 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: maybe like a first appearance, which is bullshit. It's just 296 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 1: like you're appearing. Here's your charges which are being brought 297 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: up on. Here's fail if you're going to be appointed 298 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: it or not. And then uh, here's the public offender 299 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: if you are indigent, and here's or you can choose 300 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: to hire a private attorney at this time, and then 301 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 1: you move forward from there. And then it's pretty much 302 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: stall tactics. You wait to get your discovery. You see 303 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: how bad evidence is mounted against you. Did you know 304 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,360 Speaker 1: that Amber went into labor until I was already arrested. 305 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: Where were you when you found out she gave birth? 306 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: I was in like a county jail, just to jail, 307 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: and I remember one of the jailers came and gave 308 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: me like a piece of paper and all it said 309 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: on it was my my son's name and his his weight, 310 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 1: you know that he was born and whatnot. Just a 311 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: real short note. Just came and gave it to me 312 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: to say anything, just hey, this is for you, and 313 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: then added it to me and left. And it's just 314 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: crushing because you know that it's really emotional at the beginning. 315 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: Now it's like I'm the scripted of emotions. I got 316 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: a lot less emotions than I did down Obviously, it's 317 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: a it's an emotional time. About a week after being arrested, 318 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 1: Lee Grace met with her attorney, Patrick McCarville. Here's Beth 319 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: Greenwald speaking with macarville. Tell me what that first meeting 320 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: is like, what the initial meetings are like, is you're 321 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: getting ready to represent her. We Grace was in good spirits, 322 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: which was so much surprising getting her overall situation, and 323 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: basically she remained in good spirits throughout my representation of her. 324 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: I found it interesting at her very first court appearance 325 00:18:54,960 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: on August two of two thousand and eleven, I had 326 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: never seen the slew of CNN trucks, satellite vehicles parked 327 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: up and down Main Street. Um the court in the 328 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: local law enforcement was so concerned that there would be 329 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 1: I guess the gang would come, you know, break them 330 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: out of jail. That they had snipers on all of 331 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: the buildings around the courthouse, and so because of all 332 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: the satellite trucks, my investigator and I had to part 333 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: block or so away from the courthouse. And as I 334 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: got out of my vehicle, a what I would characterize 335 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: as homeless person came up to me and said, is 336 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:53,479 Speaker 1: today the day they're going to sentence the fugitives? And 337 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: of course it wasn't. It was the first time they 338 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: were appearing in court. Um. But that pretty much solidified 339 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: my belief that this was going to be an uphill 340 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: climb in representing her. That if the homeless population believed 341 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: that not only were they guilty, but they were about 342 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: to be sentenced. Um. And that was the community sentiment 343 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: at the time. I had, you know, tried homicide cases 344 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: prior to this, but I had never handled the case 345 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: that had so much media attention. UM. So I I 346 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: tried to give lead Grace as much attention as I 347 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 1: could back. She was very forthcoming. I had her complete, 348 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: you know, some social surveys so that I knew just 349 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: about every aspect of her life. UM. And I guess 350 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: what the theme that was really you know, boiling to 351 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: the surface, was the bond she had with her brothers. 352 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be 353 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: back in a moment. Kobe Becker was Dylan's attorney. Do 354 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: you remember your first meeting with Dylan. We did talk 355 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: about the case. We talked about, you know, our strategy 356 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: for the case and stuff like that, but we we 357 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: really talked mostly about him about life, what he wanted 358 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: to do. He asked about my family, We talked about 359 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: my son um. You know, it was a lot of 360 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: chit chatting. The first time my attorney came here and 361 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: spoke to me, Mrs Becker came in all my fake 362 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: case there in Colorado, and you know, she was the 363 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: file was pretty thick. Started speak man, you know, She's like, oh, 364 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: they're trying to charge you with this, this and this, 365 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: and she kind of made a little like a life joke. 366 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: I think according to Dylan, you had said something to 367 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: the effect of, like you had to go into like 368 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: the fanciest. I think I told them, Mike, why didn't 369 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: you just try Walbart like you you know, you went 370 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: into our I and took the fanciest you know, can't 371 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: pay equipment or try to pay for the fancies. And 372 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: I did give him props for wanting to pay for 373 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: that um for his purchases. But I was sort of 374 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: laughing about how ridiculous that was that he was paying 375 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: with all the money. And Dylan and I from the 376 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: very beginning, had a really good relationship because he he 377 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: was able to at least to recognize the ridiculousness um 378 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: of his actions. And uh, I've learned a lot about 379 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: you know, brain development, and and they were all you know, 380 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: early twenties. Um, I think Ryan was nineteen maybe eighteen 381 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 1: nineteen at the time, and you know, they just they 382 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: made impulsive decisions and you but what I really loved 383 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: about that family. As much as all the crimes are 384 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: alleged to have committed and all the fear that they've 385 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: put in people and law enforcement, etcetera, etcetera, they really 386 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: were a family and they definitely were very much like, Hey, 387 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 1: if we're gonna go down, we're going to go down altogether. 388 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: And I have a lot of admiration for that, if 389 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: you will. We reached out to Ryan's attorney as well, 390 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: but he didn't want to participate. Avadan Moleski is a 391 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 1: psychologist who specializes in sibling relationships. He followed the doctor 392 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: to case closely. They were clearly a close knit a 393 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: bunch of siblings, and then you add all these stressors 394 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: to it, and that closest just survives even further, and 395 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: that sibling closeness or that sibling compensation is kicking in 396 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: now in a very powerful way in order to help 397 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: the siblings continue working together to deal with this new 398 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: life a diversity, and that really the story throughout this 399 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: entire episode is that even once they're on the run, 400 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: how they're taking care of each other during that week 401 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: on the run, and then even once they're caught and 402 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: they're going to the whole trial system, they're looking after 403 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: each other so well. Basically is happening where when you 404 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: have certain positive dynamics between sibone and you just throw 405 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: as you're calling you trauma into the mix, it just 406 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: tightens that sibling dynamic further and they're even more cold 407 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: obsessed and taking care of each other. The dopertees never 408 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: gave up on one another, and their sibling devotion continued. 409 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 1: A jail cell search comes up Big Gus. Twenty six 410 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: year old Dylan Dougherty is caught with an eight inch 411 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 1: nipe made up of metal and a farewell letter addressed 412 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: to the FBI and Werfino County Jail. According to their 413 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: rest AffA David, it reads, I've enjoyed staying here, so 414 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: don't take any of this personal. A tripe of sakraena 415 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: seeing front of the box. And I think when you 416 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: get somebody a certain straffat, his only way to do 417 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: with a set rat is actually overcome it. If you 418 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 1: put him in a box, if you give him enough time, 419 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: he has enough energy, he's gonna find a way to escape. 420 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: You know, when he was making those plans, he was 421 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: in his right stand line and he was going to escape. Now, 422 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: whether or not he knew what was going to happen 423 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: after we actually escaped, I don't know more on that 424 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: next time. If you're over eighteen years old and want 425 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: to see pictures of Lee Grace and Ryan Dougherty or 426 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: find their addresses to write them in prison, go to 427 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: our Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Dougherty Gang is 428 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: executive produced by Stephanie Lye Decker and me Courtney Armstrong, 429 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: along with Beth Greenwald, Sean McEwen, and Joseph Morgan. Editing 430 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: and sound design is by Jeff Ta, Additional producing by 431 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: Chris Graves and Jeff Shane. The Doctor Gang the production 432 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts 433 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, 434 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 435 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: M