WEBVTT - Richard Kind 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.040 The executive producer is Papa that week? And you want 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.840 to say, how am I doing? Am I doing this correctly? 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:08.320 Am I am by doing what you want? Are you happy? 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:12.520 Are you happy that you hired me? That's really important 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:14.960 to me, And you would figure why would that be 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:16.720 important to you? Look at your career, look at all 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:19.640 you've done. No, no, no, no no. I still need 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:23.680 affirmation from Daddy. Tell me I'm good. Tell me I'm good. 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:25.560 And I don't want the audience to tell me I'm good. 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:28.920 I want you, the writer, the creator, to tell me 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:32.360 this is what I wrote. I wrote a double. I 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:34.839 think you hit a triple. You may have even hit 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.560 a home run. Yeah. That that's what I want every 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.199 time I work, That's what I want. So that's what 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:50.840 I do. Hi, my name is Richard Kind, and I 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:55.000 get to talk all about me for the next hour. 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:05.640 Howdy folks, and welcome to another episode of Off the Beat. 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:10.080 As always, it's me. It's Brian baum Gartner as you. 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.200 Just if you don't recognize that voice, I don't know 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:17.160 where you've been for the last fifty years. The incredible 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:20.920 Richard Kind is the man you just heard from. Look, 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.720 I gotta tell you I am more than kind of 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.800 excited to share our conversation today. Get it. No, that 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.520 was bad, but it's true. It's incredible. He has been 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:34.479 in more movies and TV shows than I can count, 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.640 but luckily I don't have to. I am dB says 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:42.080 that he has worked on or is working on, two 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:47.520 hundred and seventy two projects. Now that's not individual episodes, 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:53.800 two hundred and seventy two unique projects. That is insane. 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.560 You may know him as cousin Andy on Curb Your Enthusiasm, 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:01.920 or perhaps Paul Lasseter in Spin City, or maybe you're 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.360 most familiar with him from the numerous Pixar movies he's 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:09.000 been involved in Toy Story three, or his work as 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:13.079 Bing Bong on Inside Out or Mold on A Bug's Life, 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:17.160 or maybe you're more in two shows about pubescent teens. Well, 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:21.560 if so, Richard plays Marty in Big Mouth. Yes, the 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:25.000 man has range. I'm excited to dive into some of 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:29.240 his projects. Yes, But also I was so interested in 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:32.800 talking to Richard about what it's like being a working 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.680 actor for all of these years. I can't tell you 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:41.240 what this conversation meant to me. I learned so much today. 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:45.120 I hope you have fun and maybe learn a little 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:49.200 bit too. So it is my absolute pleasure to bring 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.840 on Richards so you can hear straight from the horse's 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:56.280 mouth because yeah, Richards played a horse too. No he hasn't. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:03:04.280 That was a joke. Areas Richard kind Bubble and Squeak. 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:11.440 I love it Bubble and Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.799 cook at every moment, lift over from the night before. 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:29.040 Ye hey, buddy, I can't see you yet. Oh you 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:33.400 can't see me. Now I can see you. I think 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:36.280 this is much better. This is much better. Thank you 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:38.960 for taking the time to talk to me. You know 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.440 I'm a huge fan. Thank you. I am a huge 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:44.320 fan of yours, which is why I'm doing this even 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:48.120 though it forever to get us organized. Who have you 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:53.600 had on the show and what makes you a good podcaster? Wow, 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.400 that's a great question starting off with the questions from you. Um, 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.680 I don't know if I'm great or not, but look, 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.440 here's what I find interesting is what I who. I 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.120 want to talk to our people that one I maybe 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.880 don't know too well, Guys like you that I admire 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.080 but we've met, and guys that I've worked with that 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.200 we don't. You know, you're on set. You don't sit 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:21.599 there and talk so much about history or moments that 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.320 helped them. So who have I had? Um, Jon Hamm, 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:31.480 Eric stone Street? Who did we just have? Eric McCormack, 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:37.800 and Bellamy Young and Kevin Pollock? I know, old buddy 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:41.080 of yours. One of those people you mentioned are friends 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:46.360 of mine. Yeah, yeah, Soul, It's been a variety of conversations. 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:51.360 That's great, great, great great, Yeah. Yeah, uh. I want 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.400 to go back with you for a little bit. You 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.599 grew up in in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. What is the 0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:59.960 best way to describe Bucks County for people who have 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.400 never been there? Okay, it's it's first of all, it's beautiful. 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:07.520 That's bottom line. Bucks County is across the river from 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.680 New Jersey, from New Jersey. My dad's store was in Princeton, 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:15.799 New Jersey. I was born and up until fourth grade 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:19.120 lived in Trenton. Then we moved across the street to 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:23.839 the Tonier area, and Trenton was beginning to change, so 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:29.560 we moved to Bucks County. Yardly. At the time, you 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:34.120 had a steel mill in Fairless Hills, you had rolling 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:39.480 farmland all over. It gets it abuts Amish country, and 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:45.040 it's about fifty minutes from Philadelphia. It is bucolic and beautiful, 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:49.360 and it is surrounded by two large cities, New York 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.360 and Philadelphia. I'm about an hour by training. You're about 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.520 an hour and ten minutes from New York hour and 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.279 twenty minutes. And that's where people went to work, or 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:01.279 they went to work in Philly, or they worked in 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:05.360 the area. Right. Your dad was a jeweler, I understand. 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:09.600 Here's a better way to describe it. My dad had 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:15.040 a jewelry store, and his competition was Tiffany and Cardier. 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:21.039 Because people in Princeton were very educated, very wealthy, and 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.560 they either went to New York to buy all their 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.240 gems and their jewelry and the watches and everything, or 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.360 they went to my dad. Believe it or not, my 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:34.320 dad's suppliers were the same people who supplied Tiffany and Cardier, 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:39.839 the same jewelry makers. However, Tiffany and Cardier can get 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.960 necklaces that are five thousand dollars and have about eight 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:48.160 of them in the window. My dad couldn't. But if 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:50.520 you needed one of those necklaces, he would get six 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:52.920 of them in He would show them to you, and 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.520 then the one that you wanted you bought, and if 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:57.520 you didn't like any of them, he gets six more in. 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.200 But you didn't have to sleep into the city where 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.760 you were nobody, or you could go to my dad, 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.840 who would take care of you very specifically. He knew 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.360 you well, he knew your family, he knew the taste 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:11.520 of the wife and the kids. And so it was 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.920 a very personalized, beautiful jewelry store. And I understand this 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.240 was going to be your business. This was you were 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:20.400 you were going to take up the family business. It 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.160 was so when I say my dad wasn't a jeweler, 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:28.120 although he knew gemology really well. Uh, he could do 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.720 everything that a jeweler could. That is not what he did. 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:36.120 My dad could sell ice to the Eskimos. He was 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:40.840 a great and charming salesman. He was the only Jew 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:46.640 in a very very waspy New Jersey Town, Princeton. The 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:50.840 rest of his life was spent with Jewish friends at 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.960 the club and things like that, but his work was 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.200 in Princeton. And although he may have been looked at 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:02.680 as a Jew, I don't he was known like that. 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.560 He was he was revered in Princeton. He was on 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.800 the board of the bank, on the board of the theater, 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:12.040 and in the town council, everything like that. So I 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.920 don't believe that there was any prejudice at all in 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:20.119 that way. He wasn't the Jewish guy in a waspy town, 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:24.080 but he had to know that he was. And all 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:26.800 of his friends were either you know from the temple, 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:30.080 you know from the neighborhood where he was when he 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:34.040 wasn't working. Yeah, and you thought you would take this 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.160 business over, miner My understanding was you went to Northwestern 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:43.439 to study law pre law and take over the business. Right. 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:45.120 My dad did not want me to go into the 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:48.000 business unless I got a law degree and a business 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:52.040 degree because he always felt that the store could have 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.480 been large when he should have made it bigger, had 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:58.319 a couple of stores he didn't need to, but that's all. 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.920 That's what he thought I should do and expand the business. 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:07.600 I would not. I am not business minded, However, I'm 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:11.240 a nice guy. My dad taught me two things. Number One, 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:15.400 you never buy jewelry for a sad occasion. You always 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.920 it's always happy. It's a very positive business. And the 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:23.079 second thing is is if you believe in a product. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.720 I can sell anything if I believe in a product. 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.760 And my dad's stuff was not just the best, it 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:35.280 was so overpriced. He charged so much, but he would 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:39.600 guarantee that what you were getting was the best quality 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:43.160 and he would stand behind it and nobody it was 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:46.280 worth the money that you were paying, getting the best 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:48.839 that that money could buy. And he that's what he 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.360 would bring in. And he would never dicker or haggle 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.319 for a price or anything like that. You know, they 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:57.079 charged a thousand hollars, said well, i'll give you a 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:00.200 seven fifty. He wouldn't do that. He would say, no, 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:02.559 that's not what we do. So he really taught me 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.800 how to be classy. I'm not saying he was a 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:09.200 classy guy, but when it came to that, he was 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.840 classy who he was, right? Did you do any performing 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.880 as a kid? Only in school? I the only thing, 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.000 the only reason I wanted to be an actor was 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.240 my grandparents used to take me to theater in New York, 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.360 and so I wanted to be an actor. But you know, 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.720 kids want to be baseball players and kids want to 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:33.760 be fireman and the thought of me being an actor, 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:37.600 it was it was a pipe dream. It was. It 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:42.400 was stupid. The thing is, I kept doing school plays 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:45.840 and I was always the best. So I guess, if 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:48.599 you're the best football player, are you really going to 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:53.040 try and be a pro. Yeah, you may have aspirations, 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:57.040 but no, if you're a high school football player in 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.240 one in one hand, you can count the number of 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:03.680 people you know who go on the professional sports an actor, 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:07.400 I guess you don't have to have such such restrictions. 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:09.960 So I got, okay, Yeah, I'm going to be an actor. 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:12.840 I kept being the best. I did a thing called forensics, 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:17.040 so I I won the national championship in oral and 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:20.000 turp and dramatic and turp and and I said, yeah, 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:21.160 but I'm not going to be an active And I 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:23.760 went to Northwestern, where I did what I love to do. 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.199 But I got an education, and that's what Northwestern did. 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:32.160 Are these answers way too long? No? No kidding me. 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:35.679 You'll cut when I go on too much about myself. No, 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.920 you're no, that's it's it is about you. But I'm 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:44.400 fascinating with the moment that you know. It sounds like you, well, 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:46.800 you loved your dad. I presume you respected the hell 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:48.760 out of your dad. And what in the business he was. 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.440 He was building. And you go to Northwestern and you're 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:55.000 on this path, at what is the moment that you 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:57.800 decide the path is going to change? I mean, I 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:02.480 know you end up going to Second City, right. It 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:06.160 was all one thing. There was a guy who I'm 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.280 actually going to see next week. I hope he's in 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.520 his nineties. He they lived next door to us. He 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:16.040 was my parents best friend. And we're watching football and 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.800 I was supposed to go to law school and my 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:24.560 dad's best friend, Steve Holsman said these were exact words. 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:29.440 Try acting, because when you're forty, you're gonna resent your wife, 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.400 you're gonna resent your kids that you never tried. It 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:36.800 a dream deferred. It's the worst Go try it. It 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.440 works out great. If it doesn't work out, you got 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.400 the store. I was twenty one year old kid twenty 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.840 at the time, so what the hell? And I say 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.600 this if I ever give lectures or something. First of all, 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:52.280 I had nobody to answer to but myself. Second thing 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.400 is dare to fail. And I think that's a really 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:59.000 important thing. As you really go through life, failure can 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.880 be looked on as a good thing. You you know 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.679 that that didn't happen. So what else can I do 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:10.400 that might make me make me successful? And who the 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.960 hell knows I might be successful? So I went out 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:18.160 and I tried it, and for a while did I fail? 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.040 Let me, I'll tell you the worst. And you, being 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.120 a character actor, I don't know whether or not you 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.320 had to deal with this in your youth, but we're 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:32.760 not the best looking men that walked the planet. I 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:37.680 couldn't get an acting job. And what was worse is 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.199 I couldn't get a waiter's job. They wanted a better 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:46.959 looking person. And I'm going, oh my god, so that 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:50.160 if I can't get work as an actor, I can't work, 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.160 get work serving food. Well, of course eventually I did, 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.560 and of course eventually I do. And when I said 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.040 get work as an actor, I I did stuff. I 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.480 did the class this, and I did off Broadway plays. 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:04.959 But the journey at this, I'm shore, you know, to 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:11.160 the journey is a great time. After you've done the journey. 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:16.520 You're right, Sometimes that journey is just dreadful, But you know, 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.280 you go when you do an off Broadway play is horrible, 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:22.440 but you go out afterwards and you get drunk and 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.800 maybe you meet a girl who you get laid and 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.120 you're you're doing that stuff and you can stay out 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:29.920 till four in the morning because you've got nobody to 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:34.520 answer to. And you realize I remember doing that play, 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.040 and I don't know whether I was good man or different, 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.440 but I did it, and that's fun. I think that's 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.720 a lot of fun. So you you were focused in 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.200 New York. What made you decide to go to Harvard 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:54.720 or the Harvard of Theater of Okay, when I look 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:56.800 back at it, and I'm not looking at it, I 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:58.920 think that's the first time I've ever said this out loud. 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:04.480 I did everything. It's not my plan. In increments of 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.560 four I went to high school ninth grade through twelfth 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.960 grade for four years. I went to Northwestern for four years. 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:15.120 I was in New York for four years. I went 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.360 to Chicago for four years. Then I went to l 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.280 A for a long while. As it happened, I then 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:24.680 went back to New York for Spin City for four years. 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.560 Which it's just weird that none of this was in 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:34.640 my head. So I'm in New York waiting tables, taking classes, 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:40.360 doing off off roadway stuff. I did a children's theater 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:46.240 that was also for adults. I wouldn't pay money for it. 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.400 But it was like if if they had a theater 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:55.160 subscription series, one week would be Doc Severanston's band. They 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:59.760 might have Tony Bennett come wing. Well, one Saturday they'd 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:04.160 have Daniel Boone. That was That was a show, but 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:08.400 it was very, very good, A very very reputable theater 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:12.360 company called Performing Arts Repertory Theater. But we did it 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:18.040 primarily for kids in second grade through high school. That's 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:24.520 something I did from January till May. During that time, 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.280 Julia Louie Dreyfuss, Brad Hall, Gary Kroeger, and a guy 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:34.440 named Rush Pearson and Paul Barross all started a group 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:38.560 called the Practical Theater Company in Chicago. It's an improvisational 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:43.440 theater company in Chicago was the hub of improv. They 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:48.920 were really good, really really good. And when I guess 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.040 I think it was Lauren Michaels was looking for four 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:57.040 additional people. They asked Bernie Sillons, the owner of Second City, 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.640 do you have anybody? And he this is horrible thing 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.160 that he did. Rather than show his people, who were 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:06.359 very good but they had just opened a show, he 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.440 told them to go back to the other space. And said, 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.080 these guys are good and they all got taken Saturday 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.680 Night Live. So I had gone to school with those people. 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.520 I had gone to Northwestern. While they were on Saturday 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:20.920 Night Live, they said, why don't you go to Chicago 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.320 and open a play a play at our theater. And 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.200 so I went with my best friend who we also 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.320 went to Northwestern, and we opened a play that was 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:36.320 really really successful there. It was really good. The owner 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:40.280 of Second City saw us and he said, uh, I 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:42.760 want you to be He asked me and my best 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.320 friend if we wanted to be in Second City. Of course, 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:47.320 oh my god, going to be in Second City. And 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.440 so I spent four years in Second City and that's 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:52.879 what I did. So that's how I got to Second City. 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.000 Actually it overlapped. I did about six months of doing 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.119 that play along with doing Second City. We would do 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.080 the show first at the small little space, then I'd 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.760 run next door into Second City, which was so on 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.560 a Saturday night, I was working from seven at night 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:11.639 until to thirty in the morning, taking or two in 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:16.320 the morning, with one hour break from from ten to eleven. Yeah, 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.320 pretty great. Prior to this time, would you say you 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:25.920 were mainly focused in your acting on comedy or yeah, 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:31.800 it's just yeah, I was an actor, and I've always always, 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:36.040 always considered myself an actor. Yeah, it's it's what I do. 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.040 And I do not consider myself a comedian at all. 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:44.360 And I don't consider myself a comic actor because if 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:46.520 I'm doing a serious play, what the hell do you 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:50.280 want a comic actor for. I can do comedy. I 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:54.920 can do comic parts, and I can give humanity to 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.040 a serious part so that he could be that much 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:02.840 more rounded, because if you just go on and just 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.440 be an ogre, I mean, Alan Rickman was the best 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:10.800 at that horrible villain, always funny. Yeah, you always lent 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:14.520 humor to it, so that that that's what I did. 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:16.880 But I can't say that I did. The only reason 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:20.320 I did Second City because they asked me. You know, 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:22.479 everybody asked, you know, how did you get that part? 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:24.920 Why did you take that role? Because they asked me, 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.680 do you want to do it? I said, yeah, that's 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.480 all I do. Had Caazario always says, have you ever 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:34.159 heard the word no? You know, there's a reason I 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.440 work so much is because I don't turn work down. 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.680 I take it off of an Indian? Do you do 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.080 you see, I don't know about that. Do you think 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:47.360 that Second City helped you later on as you became 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:51.160 more known in the comedy space. I mean, is there 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:54.320 a correlation there? All right, let let me tell you 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:58.320 something that I did a lot of times. All of 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:00.760 these things were just mistakes because I didn't know what 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.840 else to do. But this was a conscious decision. It 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:06.480 took me forever to leave Second City. I was really scared. 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.199 I had a great security in Chicago and friends on 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:12.480 stage every night. I got a paycheck every week. It's 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:15.240 not large, but it's a paycheck. I'm a working actor, 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:19.119 and that's bottom line. Is the goal for us all 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:23.280 Let's live well and do what we love as often 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:25.879 as we can. This is the best life in the world. 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:29.639 I gave my notice in February, went out there around 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:33.840 September October. My first thought, my first thing that I got, 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:37.480 and I got. I got worked pretty soon. I did 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:41.080 not want to do a comedy. I didn't want because 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:43.120 if if I've got a Second City on my resume 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.200 and I was was I known now? But maybe word 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:49.200 got out that I was Second City and I was 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:54.800 doing I did a Stephen Cattle awful, awful, hard hitting 0:20:55.680 --> 0:21:00.560 police drama. We it was a very gruesome show. And 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:03.080 I will tell you this a side note. It was 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:10.080 the first procedural done on TV. Wow, I know it's 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:14.280 called unsub and you're gonna go what I called it? 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:18.919 One subwhat unsub? Unsub was short for unknown subject and 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:25.000 that's what the FBI division who chase serial killers would 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:28.760 call the thing. And there the un subject. I've been 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:36.040 an unsub. I did criminal minds, so I procedurals. We 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:41.520 were criminal minds in Okay before any of it happened. 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:45.159 And whenever I see Peter Roth, who just left the 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:49.359 Warner Brothers but he used to run cattle, and whenever 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:51.879 I see him, you know, he hugs you and he goes. 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:55.240 We were the first, and we were we But but 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.639 when I tell you, well, you know how how gruesome 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:03.160 criminal minds can be. Yes, imagine no precedent having ever 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:07.080 been sent spent. There was no precedent. So the first 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:11.960 episode was a great actor named Paul Gilfoil. You know Paul. 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:16.160 You look him up and you'll know exactly what. Paul 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:22.800 Gilfoil was a serial killer. He was a cobbler and 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.080 he used to put razor blades in the heels of 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:27.960 women's shoes, so when they would try them on, they'd 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:30.280 bend over in pain and he would stab them in 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:32.920 the back of the neck. This was the pilot episode. 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:37.240 And he comes running home to tell his mother, Mommy, Mommy, 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:39.880 I did something bad. His mother you know who Grace 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:45.480 Zabriski is. Grace Sabriski played his mother. He runs into 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:50.360 the bathroom there she is literally spread eagle in the bathtub. 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:54.280 So you see the origins of his of the horrors 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:57.600 and he's talking to his mother while she's naked in 0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:04.200 the bathtub, spread eagle in the six you know Partridge family, 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:07.160 you know there there were you know whoever different strokes 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:11.240 and this is what's on the air. And Brandon Tartakov, 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:15.439 who was ahead of the studio, Cattle was known for 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:17.240 doing the A Team, so he thought he was going 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:19.600 to get the A team and he saw the on 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:23.679 the big screen this first episode and he stands up. 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.040 He goes, what the funk are you trying to do? 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:30.480 Take down this home network? And so Cattle knew because 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:32.520 we were eleven on the air, he knew we were 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:36.280 eleven and out and we were off the air. Wow, 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:39.440 I don't know how good the show was. But it 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:44.679 was groundbreaking. It was groundbreaking without without doing anything to 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:48.200 the TV landscape. It's like we we changed the rules 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:51.359 and we made the rules, and we're never seen again. 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:53.960 And then nothing happened for fifteen years. And now that's 0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:57.320 it's really the truth. And then and then and then 0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:00.560 Dick Wolfe took over in Criminal Minds, and then the 0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:22.480 whole thing and that's what police dramas became. Right. So 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:25.760 I'm gonna take a little detour here because let me 0:24:25.800 --> 0:24:28.720 be honest, you've done so much. We we can't we 0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:31.800 can't cover this in a day, not to speak of 0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:35.280 an hour. But you're just pathetic. But go ahead. You 0:24:35.359 --> 0:24:38.720 were just talking about being referring to yourself as a 0:24:38.800 --> 0:24:42.200 working actor. What what what we all want to do? 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:45.800 And since you started you have you have achieved that. 0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:49.879 Whether it's because you couldn't say no or not, I know, 0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:53.040 it's it's blind luck. It's blind luck. So I want 0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:56.680 I want you for for people who don't really understand. 0:24:56.920 --> 0:25:00.440 How would you describe this lifestyle of going going from 0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:05.280 job to job, character to character, How would you describe 0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:09.880 that and have you enjoyed that as opposed to the sameness. 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:12.879 Nobody's ever asked me that, And it's a really good question. 0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:16.960 I've I've addressed it, but nobody's asked me there was 0:25:17.000 --> 0:25:19.960 a time. I'm not gonna I'll give you the bad 0:25:20.080 --> 0:25:25.280 examples love Boat Love, American Style, but mcgiver, east Side, 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:28.840