1 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to Drill. This is a special 2 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: bonus episode brought to you by the CBCS The Outlaw Ocean. 3 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: It's a riveting anthology podcast hosted by Pulitzer Prize winning 4 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: journalist Ian Urbina, and it brings us urgent stories from 5 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: the vast, beautiful, and largely lawless open seas. 6 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 2: You're about to hear the first episode of The Outlaw 7 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,959 Speaker 2: Ocean Season two. It's about the migration crisis currently unfolding 8 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: in the Mediterranean Sea. In today's episode, you'll hear about 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 2: an investigation that follows one rural farmer from Guinea Bissau. 10 00:00:41,880 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 2: Take a listen, does. 11 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 3: He have a ballpark? 12 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 4: Sons of how many shots he's heard fired during the 13 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 4: whole incident? 14 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 5: Comien de tira thank step, please, thank you ple the 15 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 5: sing but minimum five more than five? 16 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 4: And which the shooting did it occur over the course 17 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 4: of one minute, ten minutes. 18 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 3: More than two. 19 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 4: In twenty twenty one, over thirty thousand migrants arrived in 20 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 4: Italy after crossing the Mediterranean Sea. Many of these migrants 21 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 4: came from Sub Saharan Africa and when they try to 22 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 4: head to Europe, they often go to Libya. Libya is 23 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 4: a popular place for them to launch across the Mediterranean 24 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 4: because the trip is relatively short and the traffickers there 25 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 4: in Libya simple charged less than they do in places 26 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 4: like Morocco or Tunisia. But this crossing is also one 27 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 4: of the most dangerous, and that number of thirty thousand 28 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 4: people doesn't take into account those who don't make it. 29 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 3: Does he remember the date of the launch. 30 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 4: Mohammad David is one of those migrants who never landed 31 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 4: in Italy. I'm talking to him through Pierre Qatar, a 32 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 4: photographer and translator from my team. Mohammed David in about 33 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 4: one hundred and thirty others tried to make the crossing 34 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 4: in a small inflatable boat called a zodiac. Almost one 35 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:42,839 Speaker 4: of the others in the boat was a man from 36 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 4: Guinea Bissau named Aliu Kande, and. 37 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 3: He remembers seeing Aliu in the boat and did he 38 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 3: talk to him? And I saw. 39 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 4: In May of twenty twenty one, I traveled to Libya. 40 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 4: I wanted to learn why so many migrants were trying 41 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 4: to make this incredibly dangerous journey from Libya Italy and 42 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 4: to investigate the human rights abuses that were happening on 43 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 4: the Mediterranean. I also wanted to know the EU's role 44 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 4: in orchestrating these abuses and how that was connected to 45 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 4: the thousands of migrants being held in Libyan prisons. All right, 46 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 4: so then how long would it take between the bullet 47 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 4: in his neck and he's dead? 48 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 3: How long? About an hour? An hour? Around an hour? 49 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 3: So he was bleeding out for an hour. 50 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 4: Aliu Conde died from a bullet wound to the neck 51 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 4: inside a secret Libyan prison called Al Mabani. His death 52 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 4: is just one of many. Every year, tens of thousands 53 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 4: of migrants take the same risks and face the same 54 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 4: profound dangers in their quest to reach a better life 55 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 4: in Europe. Those that die are casualties in a proxy 56 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 4: war that's being funded by the European Union and carried 57 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 4: out by Libyan forces. My team and I spent months 58 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 4: tracing Aliu's path from a small village in Sub Saharan 59 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 4: Africa to his death in Tripoli. I've been covering stories 60 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 4: like this for decades, and that reporting has taken me 61 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 4: all over the planet. This investigation turned out to be 62 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 4: one of the most dangerous of my career. I'm Ian Urbina, 63 00:04:45,080 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 4: and this is the outlaw Ocean. Aliu Conde's story starts 64 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 4: in a small village in Guinea Bissau, one of the 65 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 4: poorest countries in Africa. Ali's mother told us he was 66 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 4: born on a Monday. He lived in the village in 67 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 4: a small clay house with his wife, Hava, and two children. 68 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 4: His father told us that he worked the fields and 69 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 4: herded cattle on the family farm, where they grew cassava, mangoes, 70 00:05:55,320 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 4: and cashews. Over the past few years, weather patterns had 71 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 4: started to shift. The dry seasons were too hot, the 72 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 4: rainy seasons were too wet, and the yields from their 73 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 4: crops were getting steadily smaller. Their four skinny cows were 74 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 4: hardly able to produce milk. Life on the farm was hard, 75 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 4: and every season it seemed to be getting harder. Ali's wife, Hava, 76 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 4: said that he was tired of living in poverty. Hava 77 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 4: was eight months pregnant with their third child at the time, 78 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 4: and Aliu was worried that he was failing before God 79 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 4: to provide for his family. Aliu had two older brothers 80 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 4: who had left Guinea Basau for Europe and had been 81 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 4: sending money back home. He decided it was his turn 82 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 4: to leave the village. Hava and the rest of his 83 00:06:51,279 --> 00:07:01,559 Speaker 4: family supported the decision. Aliu's father told him whoever goes 84 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 4: abroad brings fortune at home. Before leaving his village, Aliu 85 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,679 Speaker 4: called his brother Denbas and asked for advice. Denbas had 86 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 4: left Guinea Bissau and made it to Italy, where he 87 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 4: still lives. We asked Denbas about that phone call. He 88 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 4: warned Aliu against trying to follow him there. Getting to 89 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 4: Italy would mean crossing the Mediterranean from Libya. Denbas said 90 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 4: the trip was much too dangerous. He told Aliu that 91 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 4: the safest route to Europe would be from Morocco to Spain, 92 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 4: where their other brother lived. The trip would be more expensive, 93 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 4: but at only fourteen kilometers, it would also be the 94 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 4: fastest way, and in September twenty nineteen, Aliu Conde decided 95 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 4: that the risk was worth taking and he began his journey. 96 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,239 Speaker 4: He carried a koran, a leather diary, two pairs of pants, 97 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 4: two t shirts, and six hundred euros. He was twenty 98 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 4: eight years old. It took Aliu a month across Mali 99 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 4: in Algeria before landing in Morocco. When he arrived, he 100 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 4: discovered that the price to get to Spain was triple 101 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 4: what he could pay. He called his family and asked 102 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 4: for help. There was no way they could afford it either. 103 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 4: Aliu's only option was Libya. One of my overarching missions 104 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 4: with the outlo Ocean Project is to chronicle the weird 105 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 4: and wild world that exists offshore in all its different forms. 106 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 4: And if that's our goal, then you have to cover 107 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 4: the Mediterranean crisis, specifically the tens of thousands of people 108 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 4: that are trying desperately to cross the Mediterranean and get 109 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 4: to Europe. I think it's important point out that in 110 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 4: some places, at least, the criminalization of migration is a 111 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 4: pretty new phenomena. If you go back even ten years, 112 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 4: there are plenty of places, including in Africa, where it 113 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 4: used to be normal, legal, and sometimes even encouraged for 114 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 4: people to migrate between countries that might be for seasonal 115 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 4: work or for permanent moves by folks like Aliu who 116 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 4: hope to improve a family's fortunes. And now that kind 117 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 4: of movement across borders is illegal. 118 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 3: Okay. 119 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 4: So couple the illegality of migration with the reality of 120 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 4: climate change, which is a massive driver of migration, and 121 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 4: you have a very scary situation. Academics estimate that over 122 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 4: the next fifty years, one hundred and fifty million people 123 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 4: are likely to migrate, and that movement will largely be 124 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 4: driven by climate change. And most of this climate migration 125 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 4: will involve folks from poorer nations moving to richer nations. 126 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 4: If you look to the the Mediterranean, you can already 127 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 4: see this happening right. A lot of these migrants are 128 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 4: headed for Italy. In particular, according to the UN, thirty 129 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 4: one thousand, six hundred migrants crossed from North Africa to 130 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 4: Italy in twenty twenty one. In twenty twenty two, that 131 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 4: number was about one hundred and five thousand. The most 132 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 4: recent figures for twenty twenty three put the number at 133 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 4: around one hundred and fifty three thousand. Those are massive 134 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 4: numbers of people coming from places like Bangladesh, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Gambia, Sudan. 135 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 4: They're migrating north to countries like Libya and trying to 136 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 4: find their way across the Mediterranean to Europe from there. 137 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 4: The Italian government has said that it believes there are 138 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 4: upwards of seven hundred thousand migrants currently in Libya hoping 139 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 4: to make the trip. So how has the EU and 140 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 4: Italy responded. Well, what they've done has been to try 141 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 4: their best to prevent these migrants from ever touching European soil, 142 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 4: and one of the ways that they've done this is 143 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 4: to outsourced border enforcement to places like Libya. Nearly two 144 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 4: hundred migrants were brought to the Italian port of Pozzallo 145 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 4: early Monday of bordered the Italian Coast Guard ships sailing 146 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 4: under the front Tex. 147 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: Frontext, the European Border Agency, has described its concern about 148 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: what it calls a steady increase in irregular migration. 149 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 4: Across to pay more money to have to use external 150 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 4: border safeguard, it meaning more money for fron. 151 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 6: Text accused donor funded charity rescue ships of colluding with traffickers. 152 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 7: Frontext is the EU Coast Guarden border agency and its 153 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 7: mission is to defend the sovereignty of EU external borders. 154 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 4: That's Judith Sunderland. She's the Associate director in the Europe 155 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 4: and Central Asia Division at Human Rights Watch. She's been 156 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 4: researching human rights abuses against migrants and refugees for more 157 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 4: than a decade. 158 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 7: The whole point of the agency is to defend the 159 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 7: sovereignty of EU external borders. It now has a much 160 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 7: larger role in that than ever before. Its budget has 161 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 7: massively increased. I can tell you that in twenty fifteen, 162 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 7: for example, Frontech's had a budget around one hundred and 163 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 7: forty three million euros, and in twenty twenty two its 164 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 7: budget was over seven hundred and fifty million euros. So 165 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 7: it has massively expanded its powers, its mandate and its budget. 166 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 7: While it uses at times a humanitarian rhetoric to justify 167 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 7: its operations, it is also quite unabashedly clear in its 168 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 7: in its main mission, which is which is really to 169 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 7: detect what it calls illegal crossings of external borders and 170 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 7: prevent and deter those crossings. 171 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 4: The blocking of other national analities before they even reach 172 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 4: EU soil is a bit of a reach, and yet 173 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 4: that's what Frontechs is doing over the Mediterranean. 174 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 6: Frontechs will often say that its aerial surveillance saves lives 175 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 6: and that by alerting relevant authorities it is ensuring that 176 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 6: people in distress at sea are rescued. 177 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 7: But it's quite clear that the goal of this excessive 178 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 7: network of aerial surveillance is not rescue but rather interception. 179 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 4: When they see the migrant vessels, they call in the coordinates. 180 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 4: They know that they would get in legal trouble if 181 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 4: the coordinates were called directly to the Libyans. Instead, FRONTECHS 182 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 4: calls it into a national partner, typically the coastal nations Malta, Spain, Italy, 183 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 4: Greece and those EU players on land then hand off 184 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 4: the coordinates to the Libyans. Thebbeians dispatch the Libyan Coastguard 185 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 4: vessel to the coordinates and they arrive to the scene 186 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 4: where the migrant vessel is. On the other side, you 187 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 4: have players like doctors without borders, and they're coming at 188 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 4: it from the exact opposite direction literally geographically and politically, 189 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 4: and you know, in terms of their goal, they're trying 190 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 4: to rescue the migrants, get to the vessel, bring those 191 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 4: migrants quickly on board, and then head further out into 192 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 4: international waters where the Libyans have less jurisdiction. 193 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 7: FUNTECHS has a very clear policy of not informing non 194 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 7: governmental organizations when they detect a boat of migrants and refugees. 195 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:47,239 Speaker 4: Under international law, you are never allowed to return migrants 196 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 4: or refugees to a place that has been deemed not 197 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 4: a place of safety, and Libya has been ruled not 198 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 4: a place of safety. It's a war zone. 199 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 3: So it is a. 200 00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 4: Crime for ships, whether they're merchant vessels or the doctors 201 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 4: out borders folks to take those folks to Libya, but 202 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 4: Libya can bring them back there. They get captured within 203 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,479 Speaker 4: ninety miles from Libyan shores and brought back to Libyan gulags. 204 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 4: It's worth thinking of the Libyan Coast Guard as a 205 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 4: shadow immigration system for the EU. It's a proxy force. 206 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 4: It's an outsourced force that the EU uses to do 207 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 4: its dirty work when it comes to migration control. 208 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 7: Their interest is in intercepting the boats. It's not in 209 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 7: rescuing people. It's not in ensuring that people are safe 210 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 7: or treated as humanely or with dignity. They have threatened 211 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 7: non governmental rescue organizations who are out in the Mediterranean. 212 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 7: See there is ample evidence of collusion between various Libbying 213 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 7: Coast Guard units trafficking and smuggling networks. So they have 214 00:15:55,320 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 7: a very strong interest in intercepting people that see and 215 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 7: taking them back to almost certain detention in nightmarish detention 216 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 7: centers in Libya where they are subjected to further extortion 217 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 7: and forced labor and any you know, all manner of violence. 218 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 4: Let me remind this is in international waters. The Libyans 219 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 4: actually do not have the jurisdiction to do this legally, 220 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 4: and yet they do. They've got the guns and they've 221 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 4: got the power, and the EU is willfully looking the 222 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 4: other way when they make these threats or they open 223 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 4: fire on vessels over which they have no jurisdiction to 224 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 4: demand that those migrants climb on board their ship. 225 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 8: You know, we've seen the Libyan Coast Guard use live 226 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 8: bullets on people while they're trying to perform an interception, 227 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 8: which they will try to cast as a rescue. 228 00:16:57,960 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 3: We dine Basava. 229 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 4: When Aliu arrived in Libya on December tenth, twenty twenty, 230 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 4: he found a cheap place to stay with some other 231 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 4: migrants in a slum called Gargoresch. Gargresh is a kind 232 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 4: of parallel universe in Tripoli that's home to tens of 233 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 4: thousands of dark skinned African migrants. Most of them, like Aliu, 234 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 4: are from Sub Saharan countries. Aliu had a great uncle, 235 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 4: Demba Balday, who had been living in Gargresh for years. 236 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 4: When Aliu arrived in Tripoli, Demba helped him find work. 237 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 4: My colleague Pierre spoke to him on the phone. For 238 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 4: the next few months, Aliu worked as a house painter, 239 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 4: trying to save up the money he'd need to pay 240 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,239 Speaker 4: a trafficker to ferry him to Italy. Just like his 241 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 4: two older brothers, Aliu's uncle, Demba discouraged him from making 242 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 4: the trip across the Mediterranean. No no, no, no, no no, 243 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 4: we Dema told him that's the root of death. I 244 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 4: wanted to see what was really going on in Libya 245 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 4: and what the situation was like for ali U Kande 246 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 4: and all the other migrants forced to make these same 247 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 4: life or death choices, and that meant going to Tripleli. 248 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 4: My team landed in TRIPLEI in May twenty twenty one. 249 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 4: I was joined by Pierre Qatar, the translator you heard earlier, 250 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 4: my editor Joe Sexton, and another filmmaker named Maya Doles. 251 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 4: We arrive at the airport and security is there to 252 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 4: greet us, and immediately things are a little shady. Our 253 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 4: passports are taken away. We're not allowed to stay with 254 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 4: them and see what's being discussed. That already gave me pause. 255 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 4: We get in the car. We had to not the 256 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 4: hotel that we had chosen, but this other hotel that 257 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 4: they insist we stay at, and you know, the next 258 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 4: week is a series of, you know, a dozen similar 259 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 4: sort of surprises of that that just become this escalating 260 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 4: situation where it's very obvious that the intention here is 261 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 4: for us to not do our job, not to talk 262 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 4: to people, not to report. But from my view, our 263 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 4: mission remained, you know, our job was to investigate this murder, 264 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 4: investigate this wider problem, and if we had to slalom 265 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 4: around their hurdles, we were going to slalom around their hurdles. 266 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 4: But we were not going to stop, you know, and 267 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 4: not do the job. If we were, we were going 268 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 4: to leave the country. But there was no reason to 269 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 4: stay and sit in a hotel for two weeks. Gargresh 270 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 4: historically is a thriving section of the city with brick 271 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 4: and mortar shops and the like, but in the last 272 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 4: couple decades at least, it has become also this other thing, 273 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 4: which is the shanty town that houses tens of thousands 274 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 4: of migrants who end up there. The sense I got 275 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 4: from a dozen migrants, most of whom live in Gargresh 276 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 4: is that as dirty and dark a place as it is, 277 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 4: is actually the one place they feel safe because there 278 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 4: are lots of them and they can disappear. The larger 279 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 4: experience when you talk to the migrants about Tripoli is 280 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 4: the overwhelming sense of fear that at any moment, anywhere 281 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 4: outside of Gargresh especially, they can be grabbed by anyone. 282 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 4: There's a lot of different motivations for kidnapping, and if 283 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 4: you're a migrant, you walk around the city knowing that 284 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 4: can occur. 285 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 9: Because he wants to go closer to where he's lived, 286 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 9: so he doesn't feel comfortable around here. 287 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 4: So Mohammed David is the migrant you heard at the 288 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 4: beginning of this episode, and his story isn't much different 289 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 4: from Aliu's. He's originally from the Ivory Coast. After his 290 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 4: wife gave birth to a son, it became harder and 291 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 4: harder for Muhammad David to provide for his family, so 292 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 4: he made the same decision ali did to leave home 293 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 4: and try to find a better life in Europe. He 294 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 4: traveled to Burkina Fasso and landed in Tripoli, where he 295 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 4: saved up some money and paid a trafficker to bring 296 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 4: him to Italy. 297 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 9: They were in the same boat, and how they're in 298 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 9: the same boat. They what kind of person was all? 299 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 6: You know? 300 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 3: That's he said. Aliu was someone who was called he was. 301 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 8: Just like you, the same thing. 302 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 9: Okay, and he was from Guinea Bissau. 303 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 3: Yes, so you speak. 304 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 4: Once we met Muhammed David, it didn't take long for 305 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 4: us to realize that he was going to be an 306 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 4: incredibly valuable source. But he knew that talking to foreign 307 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 4: journalists in public was a quick way of attracting the 308 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 4: wrong kind of attention. He knew that undercover security was 309 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 4: everywhere and that migrants were always at risk. My team 310 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 4: had been assigned to security detail by the Libyan government, 311 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 4: and Muhammad David didn't trust them. He insisted that if 312 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 4: we were going to talk with him, we needed to 313 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 4: come to his home in Gargash. 314 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 9: Fifteen winning one. 315 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 4: So we set up one of the early meetings with 316 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 4: him in Gargrash and we brought food and one of 317 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 4: his terms was, look, you got to lose the security. 318 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,719 Speaker 4: You can't come into Gargrash with your security detail, and 319 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 4: you certainly can't come near where I'm staying. If you've 320 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 4: got those guys in tow the security guys had said, 321 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 4: you're not allowed to leave our line of sight. So 322 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 4: this put me in a bit of a bind. Obviously 323 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 4: I was going to lean towards Mohammed David, but ultimately 324 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,719 Speaker 4: what I said to the security guys was, look, you're 325 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 4: going to take me into this location. I'm going to 326 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 4: meet someone, and then he's going to walk me into 327 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 4: where he's staying and we're going to have dinner with him. 328 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 4: I will never be further than five hundred meters from you, 329 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 4: but you will not see where I am exactly, because 330 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 4: that's the term I struck with the migrant And if 331 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 4: you're not okay with that, then I'm sorry, but that's 332 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 4: what I need to do so as to make him 333 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 4: safe and make him feel safe. And that's what we did. 334 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 4: We met Mohammed David on a street corner a couple 335 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 4: of blocks away from Gargresh. We walked through some alleys, 336 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 4: winding our way through the night into the depths of Gargresh. 337 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 4: The security detail was maybe a block away, and then 338 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 4: once we got into Gargresh, we did a couple of 339 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 4: blind turns to shake them and then went with Muhammad 340 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 4: David sat down and. 341 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 3: From the boat and then took us to their prison. 342 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 4: Any the more we talked to Mohammed David and other 343 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 4: people who knew Ali you, the more a really clear 344 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 4: picture of him started to come together. The impression I 345 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 4: got of him was that he was quiet, kind of introverted, 346 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 4: and watchful, maybe a bit shy. He was a gentle 347 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 4: young man who was quick to smile. He like soccer 348 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 4: and rap music. Don't forget he was a whiral kid 349 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 4: who lived most of his life on a farm in 350 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 4: a remote village, so he didn't have that kind of 351 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 4: hardened street sensibility to him. He was also less mature 352 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,719 Speaker 4: than say Muhammed David or some of the others who 353 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 4: were trying to undertake a similar journey to Europe. We'd 354 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,239 Speaker 4: been set up and filming for about twenty minutes and 355 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 4: that's when my phone started ringing and things very quickly 356 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 4: started going sideways. 357 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 3: You hear me, So they kept beating you. I figure, 358 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 3: if you didn't want to give money, we will walk 359 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 3: back in one hour give and then he would need 360 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 3: to tell leave us an our community, the police just 361 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,239 Speaker 3: to tell are you to leave us? Get we are 362 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 3: talking and were any get understand, but you gotta walk away, 363 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 3: Can you walk away a little bit? 364 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 4: The security detail had called the bosses of the security company. 365 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 4: The bosses had called local close and playing closed police 366 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 4: around Gargresh, who spy on these guys. And there was 367 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 4: this sort of growing fury around me and these Westerners 368 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 4: who were in the depths of Gargresh talking to migrants, 369 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 4: and so over the next twenty minutes, you know, I 370 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 4: got increasingly angry, screaming calls from various folks saying where 371 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 4: are you. We're going to storm Gargresh to come get you. 372 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,719 Speaker 4: You're not allowed to be talking with them without us present, 373 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera. And I was saying, you know, 374 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 4: we are only five hundred meters. 375 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 3: Away, we know where you are. 376 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 4: If there's a problem, we will contact you. We can 377 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 4: get out easily, don't worry, We're fine, and you need 378 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 4: to just calm down and back off. And after about 379 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 4: thirty minutes, when the threats escalated to a pretty high degree, 380 00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 4: I told my career, look, we got to pull out 381 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 4: of here because this is going to make Mohammed David unsafe. 382 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 3: For their sake. Get out of here because they're setting 383 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 3: the police. 384 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 4: And we pulled out and that's when, you know, I 385 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 4: got scolded on the street and yelled at by the 386 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 4: police chief, and he said he was going to recommend 387 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 4: having us thrown out of the country for talking to migrants. 388 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 4: And we went back to the hotel, and that's when 389 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 4: I got calls from the head of the security company 390 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 4: that had been put on us by the government, and 391 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 4: was further told that we had broken their rules. From 392 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 4: there forward, we were officially put on house arrest. We 393 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 4: were not supposed to talk further with migrants without permission. 394 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 4: We were not supposed to talk with ambassadors or foreign officials. 395 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 4: We were not allowed to go to certain parts of 396 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 4: the city, including Gargresh. You know, we were not allowed 397 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 4: to leave the hotel. Bottom line, the very people that 398 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 4: were supposed to protect us were now sort of incarcerating us. 399 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 4: And the very people that were meaning the government officials 400 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 4: who were supposed to be welcoming us into the country 401 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 4: and kind of facilitating our reporting or doing just the opposite, 402 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 4: they were throwing up every obstacle in our way. So 403 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 4: it was really pretty clear that this was going to 404 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 4: be a tough reporting trip from there forward. Next time 405 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 4: on the Outlaw Ocean, my team and I continue investigating 406 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 4: the murder of al U Conde inside a migrant prison, 407 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 4: and that investigation puts us directly in the crosshairs of 408 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 4: a Libyan militia. This series is created and produced by 409 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 4: The Outlaw Ocean Project. It's reported and hosted by me 410 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 4: Ian Urbina, written and produced by Michael Katano. Our associate 411 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 4: producer is Craig Ferguson. Mix sound design and original music 412 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 4: by Alex Edkins and Graham Walsh. Additional sound recording by 413 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 4: Tony Fowler. For CBC Podcasts are Coordinating producers Fabiola Carletti, 414 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 4: Senior producer Damon Ferless. The executive producers are Cecil Fernandez 415 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 4: and Chris Oak. Tanya Springer is the senior manager and 416 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 4: r If Narani is the director of CBC Podcasts Special 417 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 4: Thanks to Pierre Qatar, Joe Sexton and May Adults. 418 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 2: That was an episode from season two of The Outlaw Ocean. 419 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 2: If you liked what you heard, you can find the 420 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 2: show wherever you get your podcasts.