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Speaker 1: I have an extra special guest this week. His name

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Speaker 1: is Rick Wilson. He is a Republican political strategist, media consultant,

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Speaker 1: and author who has produced numerous television commercials for governors,

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Speaker 1: senate candidates, super PACs corporations. He helped campaign for Connie

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Speaker 1: mac for the Florida UH Senate campaign. He was George H. W.

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Speaker 1: Bush's field director in Florida. He was the presidential appointee

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Speaker 1: to the Department of Defense under Dick Cheney. He created

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Speaker 1: a number of award winning ads for Rudolph Giuliani in

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Speaker 1: the seven mayoral election, also campaign for Giuliani for the

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Speaker 1: two thousand Senate seat. And he is the author of

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Speaker 1: Everything Trump Touches Dies. A Republican strategist gets Real about

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Speaker 1: the worst President ever. Rick Wilson, Welcome to Bloomberg. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you, very appreciate that I've been looking forward to this.

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Speaker 1: But I gotta ask you, what's your beef with Trump?

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Speaker 1: He's making America great again. Well, that's a great catchphrase, Berry,

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Speaker 1: but it's also at variance with a lot of the

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Speaker 1: things that that I, as a conservative believe in. Okay,

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Speaker 1: give us some example, limiting the size of government, engaging

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Speaker 1: in a in a trade war that is ultimately going

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Speaker 1: to end, as all trade wars do, with a complete

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Speaker 1: economic and political disaster. But look, Donald Trump isn't a

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Speaker 1: conservative in the traditional way. He's more of a status

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Speaker 1: more of an authoritarian, and it's definitely some stuff that

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of issues with as a conservative.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing that Donald Trump's character has ever indicated that he,

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Speaker 1: you know, has any of the traits of moral probity,

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Speaker 1: or personal responsibility, or accountability or integrity. And so there

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Speaker 1: were a lot of these reasons that I thought that

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Speaker 1: Trump would be a damaging force in the country, not

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Speaker 1: only for conservatism, but for our economy and for our

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Speaker 1: system of government. And I've been I've been proven pretty

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Speaker 1: consistently right on this over the last two years. I

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Speaker 1: have to admit I was pretty shocked. I'm a lifelow

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Speaker 1: in New Yorker. Everybody in New York kind of knows

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Speaker 1: what Trump's gig is. It's no big surprise. We all

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Speaker 1: either know someone who's worked with him, or been involved

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Speaker 1: with one of his properties, or been sued by him.

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Speaker 1: And um, I was shocked at how easily the right

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Speaker 1: wing just what his line when it was clearly nonsense,

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Speaker 1: you know, at least about being a conservative, a fiscal conservative, etcetera, exactly,

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Speaker 1: you know. And and my New York experience started in

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Speaker 1: ninety working for Rudy in the first in the re

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Speaker 1: election campaign, and then I was here in City Hall

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Speaker 1: for about a year working as this advisor and then

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Speaker 1: on the campaign against Hillary. So I got enough of

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Speaker 1: a taste of New York at that point to get

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Speaker 1: so where people read Donald Trump and how they scanned him,

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Speaker 1: And it was always like, yeah, the guy's kind of whatever,

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Speaker 1: but you know, we'll throw m some parking passes once

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Speaker 1: in a while. But and his ascent politically from people

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Speaker 1: here and other folks that have done business with him

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Speaker 1: and that I've known in Florida and elsewhere, they were

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Speaker 1: always stunned. How is how is anyone buying this con

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Speaker 1: How does anyone believe this guy? This bs is. Everybody

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Speaker 1: knows he's bankrupt constantly, every multiple everybody knows that this

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Speaker 1: guy is in debt up to his eyeballs. That this

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Speaker 1: is all a character he's playing on TV and not

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Speaker 1: the real guy. You know, all this idea that Trump

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Speaker 1: is one of the wealthiest men in the world, and

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Speaker 1: he's a amazing businessman, a masterful negotiator, all these things.

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Speaker 1: It's all bs, It's all crap. And they all knew it,

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Speaker 1: and and and why jump on the Trump train? And

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Speaker 1: was it just raw attraction to power? And not a

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Speaker 1: lot more than that. Trump identified something in the Republican

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Speaker 1: base that they really wanted. They wanted someone who was

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Speaker 1: so transgressive, who was going to blow up everything, because

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Speaker 1: there's a huge sense of inferiority in the Republican base there.

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Speaker 1: They really dislike the fact that the educated elites and

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Speaker 1: the Ivy League people quote unquote looked down on them.

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Speaker 1: So and that's been stoked over the years by Fox

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Speaker 1: and by the right wing talk radio circuit. And so

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Speaker 1: those folks got this sense that Donald Trump was going

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Speaker 1: to be, uh this, as I said, a transgressive and

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Speaker 1: destructive force for the establishment, which they hate. They hate

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Speaker 1: the establishment Republicans more than they hate Democrats. They have

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Speaker 1: a greater anxiety about about their own party's internal quote

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Speaker 1: unquote elites than they do about the Democrats. And so

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Speaker 1: Trump activated that very brilliantly, and the and the Republican

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Speaker 1: elected officials who followed along in his wake did it

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Speaker 1: for two reasons. The first reason, Man and I would

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Speaker 1: say about you know, in the house, there used to

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Speaker 1: be a lot fewer today. A lot of those guys

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Speaker 1: were just afraid of him. They're afraid of the Twitter feed,

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Speaker 1: They're afraid of his followers, they're afraid of the crazy train.

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Speaker 1: They're afraid of They're afraid of the people that Trump inspires.

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Speaker 1: You write about that in everything Trump touches dies that

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Speaker 1: there is a genuine fear amongst rank and file Republicans

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Speaker 1: that if this guy comes after me on Twitter, my

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Speaker 1: life is over. And they have a political fear that

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Speaker 1: they'll be primaried by some nutcase. They have to their

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Speaker 1: own rights, to their own to their own right or

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Speaker 1: or to the Trump zone. From the Trump zone, they

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Speaker 1: have a state run media. There is a there is

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Speaker 1: a deep sense that a lot of the followers of

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Speaker 1: Trump are the guys that are gonna come to your

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Speaker 1: town hall meeting and lose their minds with you. And

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Speaker 1: I tell a story in the book of a guy

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Speaker 1: who went to one of the first town hall meetings

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Speaker 1: and he was asked, are you going to support president

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Speaker 1: percent of the time? And he says, well, I want to.

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Speaker 1: I'm a Republican. I hope we can agree on a

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Speaker 1: lot of things, but you know, I'm gonna stand taking

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Speaker 1: a blind I'm going to stand up for my district first.

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Speaker 1: It's like, no, no, are you going to support Mr Trump?

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Speaker 1: One of the time and he says no, moves on

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Speaker 1: next question. By the time he gets off stage, his

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Speaker 1: Facebook page is filled up with death threats, his wife's

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Speaker 1: business Facebook page is filled up with death threats. His

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Speaker 1: Twitter feed is a mess, his kids school is getting

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Speaker 1: phone calls the next day. And it's because appropriate. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it seems it seems like a normal political course, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: But it comes down to this point where the vast

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Speaker 1: majority of the members of the caucus are just afraid.

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Speaker 1: They're afraid of what Trump's gonna say or do. Um.

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Speaker 1: There's a handful of them who are true believers. There

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Speaker 1: are a few of these guys who really have all

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Speaker 1: the kool aide. Example, well, Devin is a perfect example.

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Speaker 1: Data rohbockers perfect well, you know, and we should discuss

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Speaker 1: his his district said, you're not putting your district first.

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Speaker 1: Lust him out, and that is something that you know,

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Speaker 1: that is something that we saw in this in this election.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about the GOP. And there

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Speaker 1: were so many questions that I had as as I

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Speaker 1: was reading the book, the first of which was, what

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Speaker 1: was the response from your fellow Republicans when you pretty

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Speaker 1: much declared, Hey, this guy is not a Republican, he's

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Speaker 1: an impostor, and he will destroy the party if you

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Speaker 1: make him your nominee. That had to be some pretty

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Speaker 1: fierce pushback in the beginning, not at all. Really, in

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Speaker 1: the beginning, it was absolutely right, we're all in this together.

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Speaker 1: And one by one they fell to the conformity of

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Speaker 1: d C, which is a corporate town, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of them were dependent on work from the RNC or

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Speaker 1: the NRCC, or the Senate Committee or the Governor's Association.

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Speaker 1: And so they slowly, you know, shut their mouths, sat down,

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Speaker 1: made their peace with the Trump world. And look, I

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Speaker 1: had had a very successful career. I've done superPAC work

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Speaker 1: for the last ten years. I've done campaigns in thirty

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Speaker 1: eight states. I've been to the rodeo. I wasn't really,

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Speaker 1: you know, subject to a lot of the same motivations

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Speaker 1: that they were of, you know, keeping the keeping the

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Speaker 1: mortgage payments up on their five million dollar homes in Georgetown, Right,

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Speaker 1: So I had a slightly different take on some of that.

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Speaker 1: But it's also that that I've never tried to be

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Speaker 1: one of the d C guys. Yeah, they were all

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Speaker 1: centrist Republicans and compassion to conservatives when George Bush was president,

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Speaker 1: and the minute the tea party one, they were all

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Speaker 1: hair on fire libertarians. We were going to burn down

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Speaker 1: the government drowned in the bathtub, and and we were

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Speaker 1: gonna We're gonna adhere to the Constitution strictly. That that

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Speaker 1: sort of ethical um flexibility. Yeah, I mean, is it

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Speaker 1: that blatant? Is it? In d C? It's not even

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Speaker 1: just that obvious. Part of the trick for a lot

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Speaker 1: of these people was they basically had to hire Trump

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Speaker 1: people to make good with the Trump family on the

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Speaker 1: Trump Organization. A lot of these people in d C

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Speaker 1: who hated Donald Trump with the fire of a million

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Speaker 1: sons to keep their RNC contracts. Suddenly they were hiring

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Speaker 1: all these you know, cats and dogs that wandered in

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Speaker 1: from the Trump world who couldn't have gotten a job

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Speaker 1: at a burger king otherwise, and pretending that this was

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Speaker 1: that that they had always been Trump, they had always

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Speaker 1: been all about MAGA. So when did the push back

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Speaker 1: to you start in earnest? When did you really start

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Speaker 1: to have uh the GOP rank and file turn on you.

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Speaker 1: While on the front end, a lot of them have

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Speaker 1: said had to say publicly, well, are not working with

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Speaker 1: wreck anymore. Um, A lot of them still talk to me,

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Speaker 1: and I have taken on this weird role as like

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Speaker 1: a father confessor to some of these Republicans for the

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Speaker 1: last two years. They'll call me up and say, I

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Speaker 1: hate him. I hate him so much, I can't stand

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Speaker 1: this case destroying the country. And the next day they're

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Speaker 1: sitting around the cabinet off the cabinet room table, or

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Speaker 1: they're wearing a red hat at a rally because they're

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Speaker 1: just afraid. So they won't even vote against them. No, no,

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Speaker 1: they they're the fear defines them, and this desire to

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Speaker 1: please his base defines them these days. And so look,

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Speaker 1: once he got the nomination, I was definitely out of

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Speaker 1: the out of the family pic necklist for a while.

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Speaker 1: But I have spent the last two years speaking freely

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Speaker 1: and and and making a critique of Trump from the right,

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Speaker 1: and honestly, I'm liberated. You don't have a specially kind

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Speaker 1: things to say about Ryan's in the book. I don't

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Speaker 1: because he had every opportunity to pull this pull the

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Speaker 1: circuit breakers on Trump. Yeah, why didn't he? I I

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Speaker 1: think in many ways he feared that Donald Trump would

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Speaker 1: leave the party quote unquote, go to the Democrat and

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Speaker 1: run as an independent, and therefore would tap off a

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Speaker 1: small but meaningful percentage in enough states that Hillary would

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Speaker 1: be insure to win. That was That was what one

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Speaker 1: of his advisers, you know, said to me at the time,

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Speaker 1: And I said, is at an unreasonable position, it seems

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Speaker 1: fairly logical. Well, the thing about it is Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: at that point would not be able to raise money

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Speaker 1: from the Republican sucker base who loved him. He would

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Speaker 1: have had to actually spend his own money for real,

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Speaker 1: and we know he didn't want to do that. He

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Speaker 1: never does. He doesn't have any money to spend. So

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Speaker 1: my pet thesis about Trump this whole time has been

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Speaker 1: was a phenomenal branding opportunity for him. He ran, he

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Speaker 1: raised his profile. Everything he did financially after that was

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Speaker 1: a big win for him. I looked at is he

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Speaker 1: has no interest in winning. He just wants to take

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Speaker 1: all the free publicity, and of course and and the

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Speaker 1: people inside Trump's campaign for the last month of the campaign. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I can't wait till this is over. We're gonna go

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Speaker 1: have a big steak dinner. I gotta tell you the

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Speaker 1: crazy stories about this idiot. And on election night, Steve Bannon,

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Speaker 1: rants previous, Kelly and Conway, all the senior Trump staffers

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Speaker 1: are calling every reporter in the country saying it's his fault,

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Speaker 1: it's her fault, it's their fault. They were already they

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Speaker 1: were all this is. At at four forty five, I

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Speaker 1: got a phone call from from a major national reporter

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Speaker 1: who just said I just got off the phone with

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Speaker 1: one of the president's senior strategists who is today in

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Speaker 1: the White House. And this person told me, oh, Bannon's

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Speaker 1: an idiot and writes, blew this up. And they're just

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Speaker 1: morons in the family or a bunch of greedy, you know,

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Speaker 1: mafia people. This is a cry, this is this is horrifying.

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Speaker 1: And an hour and a half later, this person is

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Speaker 1: on the stage age waving and smiling. Because the night

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Speaker 1: came out differently, they had no anticipation of winning at all.

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Speaker 1: You could tell from the lack of lists of senior

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Speaker 1: cabinet people, ambassadors. There's still hundreds of unfilled slots. It's

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Speaker 1: two years later. Take a look at the tax cuts.

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Speaker 1: There's no rhyme, Maria. That was a Paul Ryan joint.

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Speaker 1: That wasn't a Donald Trump joint. He just cares about

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Speaker 1: the victory, is how I read it, and not the

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Speaker 1: policy DTA. He cares about the celebrity, yes, and that

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Speaker 1: that's always been what motivates Trump. A friend of his

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Speaker 1: former friend, current friend, I'm not sure you describe it

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Speaker 1: said any one time. Whatever makes him money, whatever puts

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Speaker 1: him on the in the papers that day. That's Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump's entire world. Fame, money, and love. Those are the

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Speaker 1: three most I wouldn't say love. Yeah, I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: put a nice spin on it. So let's talk about

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Speaker 1: what the Democrats should be learning from this election cycle.

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Speaker 1: What should they have done differently in sixteen, and what

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Speaker 1: should they be doing differently. Well, I think what they

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Speaker 1: learned this here, to their credit, and it's taken a

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Speaker 1: long road for them to get there, is to try

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Speaker 1: to nominate people for Congress who fit the district. For

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Speaker 1: years though they had this very top down approach where

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Speaker 1: no matter who you were where you were running. You

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Speaker 1: had to be the same Democrat that would be acceptable

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Speaker 1: in Manhattan or Democrats right. You had to be completely

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Speaker 1: pro choice, you had to be completely anti gun, you

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Speaker 1: had to be completely high taxes, purity tests, all the

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Speaker 1: ideological monoculture that Republicans like me used to defeat Democrats

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Speaker 1: all over the country. What they learned is, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can you can. You can name an Occasio Cortez in

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Speaker 1: the Bronx, but you gotta name a Connor Lamb in Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: in western Pennsylvania, in rural areas. The Democrats finally seemed

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Speaker 1: to have started to learn that a little bit this year,

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Speaker 1: and some of their more progressive candidates like Andrew Gilham

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Speaker 1: in Florida, who you know, for all that people were

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Speaker 1: very enamored of Andrew Gillham, he was very far to

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Speaker 1: the left of where Florida is still came within one percent.

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Speaker 1: Pretty shock. It was a very impressive campaign. He's an

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Speaker 1: impressive candidate. So a lot of the more progressive guys

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Speaker 1: who felt like they still had to check all those

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Speaker 1: boxes fell short. And the fact that thirty one candidates

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Speaker 1: that Donald Trump endorsed for the House of Them lost

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Speaker 1: that's amazing. Yeah, there's a pretty thorough repudiation the Trump.

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Speaker 1: The Trump hit on House campaigns is something that we'll

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Speaker 1: have a longer political runout than the fact that they

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Speaker 1: won some Senate races and states that were the Democrats

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Speaker 1: were disproportionately holding those seats. I mean Claire mccaskell in Missouri,

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Speaker 1: that is the state that has trended redder and redder.

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Speaker 1: Indiana deeper and deeper red all the time. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, we're shocked that people that the Republicans won

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Speaker 1: in North Dakota, Trump won the state by thirty two points.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about some of the changes from the

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Speaker 1: prior election. Uh, and you have to really begin with

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Speaker 1: white college educated suburban women. How significant was that group

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Speaker 1: for Democrats losing the White House in and how important

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Speaker 1: was it to this midtime of left about voted for

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Isn't that a kind of a shock, but

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Speaker 1: more than mid Romney. But right away, right away they

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Speaker 1: realized there was an almost immediate oops oops factor and

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Speaker 1: the tone and and things like Charlottesville and the immigration

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Speaker 1: putting up, putting kids in cages not a good look

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Speaker 1: for suburban educated women. They're not really keen on it.

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Speaker 1: So what you ended up with was they sort of

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Speaker 1: got a separation in the fall of in the winter,

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Speaker 1: and last night the divorce was final. They walked away

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Speaker 1: from the Republican Party and enormous numbers we're starting to

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Speaker 1: peel through the exit polls. But if you look in

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Speaker 1: places like Pennsylvania, the Democrats picked up four congressional seats there,

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Speaker 1: almost all of them in suburban areas where educated white

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Speaker 1: women are the driving political force. So here's the longtime question.

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Speaker 1: Did they walk away from Republicans? Did they walk away

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Speaker 1: from Trump? Is there a difference anymore? Well, I imagine

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Speaker 1: there is. So I'm i'm I get grief from friends

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Speaker 1: when I say I grew up a Jacob Javits Republican,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty middle of the road, balanced budget, low taxes,

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Speaker 1: no overseas adventures like Vietnam or subsequently Iraq, and keep

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Speaker 1: the government the hell out of the bedroom. Fairly moderate

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Speaker 1: Republican with the best part of the libertarian side. I

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Speaker 1: haven't changed. It's just that the hard right part of

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Speaker 1: the party has taken over and really driven things. Uh see,

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Speaker 1: there's a there's a real desire that we sort of

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Speaker 1: pretended wasn't there for a long time, not for limited

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Speaker 1: government and you know, the rule of law and low

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Speaker 1: taxes and constitutional adherents. There's been an appetite for a

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Speaker 1: sort of authoritarianism and a strongman, the bully character that's

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Speaker 1: been fed for a long time by the sort of

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Speaker 1: talk radio culture. And so we've ended up with, you

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Speaker 1: know what people wanted. They want the id of the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party, not the super ego. Quite interesting. What keeps

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Speaker 1: coming up all the time is that the country is

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Speaker 1: so divided, and part of me feels well, Congress is divided,

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Speaker 1: but there are so many things that Americans seem to

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Speaker 1: agree with. It almost feels like more and more of

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Speaker 1: us are living in purple states than deeper red and

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Speaker 1: deeper blue. And while there's certainly exceptions to New York

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Speaker 1: and California, Indiana and and um, I was gonna say Kansas,

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Speaker 1: but I guess I can't say Kansas anymore? How accurate

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Speaker 1: is that media depiction? Are we a nation divided? Or

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Speaker 1: or are there more things that unite us than divide us?

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Speaker 1: When it comes to the politics. The siloing off of

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Speaker 1: Americans has divided us profoundly. And what's the cause of that.

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Speaker 1: The first his politics has become a reality television show

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Speaker 1: that we're all living in and people every day are

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Speaker 1: fed by the channels they like, by the news sources

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Speaker 1: they like, and the Internet has allowed people to silo

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Speaker 1: themselves off into social groups. Look, we've become a disintermediate society.

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Speaker 1: We don't do the things we used to do as people,

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Speaker 1: and we don't we don't have the same sort of churches,

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Speaker 1: social clubs, bowling leagues, baseball teams, all these things people

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Speaker 1: used to do together. What's more important to them now

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Speaker 1: is their Facebook group, and they interact more with people

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Speaker 1: through social media, uh than they did before. And so

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Speaker 1: part of that whole social media problem is that people

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Speaker 1: want to portray this optimized image of themselves and to

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Speaker 1: and to get attention in that attention economy of social media,

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Speaker 1: and so they become flaming partisans, they become something visible

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Speaker 1: inside their social group. And so so that's that's number one.

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Speaker 1: That's a that's a huge um. So we clearly have

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Speaker 1: a divide set up by media. Let's talk about some

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Speaker 1: of the other more interesting issues of the modern electoral campaign.

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Speaker 1: The polling was under significant criticism in how they do

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Speaker 1: in a little better in some places, but we are

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Speaker 1: still at a point where we chase these polling stories

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Speaker 1: that are built on statistical models that don't reflect what

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Speaker 1: the turnout model is going to look like, and which

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Speaker 1: has to do with what is it enthusiasm or just

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Speaker 1: not being able to reach people, it's not. It's a

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Speaker 1: lot of There are a lot of mechanical and technical

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Speaker 1: problems in pulling. Now you used to have to make

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Speaker 1: a couple of thousand phone calls to get a decent sample,

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Speaker 1: and now you have to make ten thousand phone calls

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Speaker 1: to make get a decent sample. People don't answer their

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Speaker 1: cell phones from strange numbers that they don't because you

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Speaker 1: just assume it's it's it's spam, it's it's you know,

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Speaker 1: healthcare enrollment is open. Everybody's gotten those calls, a million

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Speaker 1: of them. Landline phones are going to sickly old people

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Speaker 1: plus or you know you're the chance of you owning

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Speaker 1: a landline phone now it means you are sixty or older.

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Speaker 1: So there are a lot of technical difficulties in pulling.

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Speaker 1: We also are seeing some better analytics coming out using

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Speaker 1: big data, using a lot of the things. I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: it used to be you would take a random digit

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Speaker 1: dial and you'd call you six hundred people and you'd

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Speaker 1: ask them pulling questions. Well, then you started making that

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Speaker 1: dial list off of the voter file, so you're really

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Speaker 1: talking to the people that are actually gonna be there.

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Speaker 1: Then you started modeling that and saying, Okay, well, this

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Speaker 1: guy's record since he's voted in to the last three primaries,

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Speaker 1: so we're gonna definitely talk to him. He's a likely.

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Speaker 1: And now we've got consumer data, we've got clicked data

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Speaker 1: from the internet, we've got you know, your we've got

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Speaker 1: the ability to say, Okay, this guy reads Bloomberg every day,

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Speaker 1: and he reads um the Wall Street Journal every day,

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Speaker 1: and he looks at drugs three times a day, so

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Speaker 1: we know he's an engaged person. Maybe the tax issues

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Speaker 1: that when we want to talk to him about while

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Speaker 1: asking this question. So there's a lot of stuff that's

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Speaker 1: giving us an enriched picture of who the voters are. Um,

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Speaker 1: but the guys I work with my posters, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was saying that people were gonna get thirty five

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Speaker 1: Democratic seats and two to three Republican pickups in that

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Speaker 1: in the Senate. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. We

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Speaker 1: were pretty happy with that. I mean, we didn't feel

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Speaker 1: like we missed a lot of big calls. And I've

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Speaker 1: been you know, as as a as a Purple State guy,

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Speaker 1: as a guy who still lives in Florida. You know,

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Speaker 1: I told people for weeks it's going to be razor Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's votes a state of twenty million people.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about Florida. Because what I haven't seen

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Speaker 1: a lot of people discussing has been the proposition that passed. Namely,

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Speaker 1: if you're a felon um and I think it's non violent,

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Speaker 1: it's non violent, non violent felon throughout most of America,

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Speaker 1: you go to jail and you lose the right to vote.

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Speaker 1: It's very much a disenfranchising um situation that falls into

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Speaker 1: proportionately on Peter. Now, there's something like a million, three

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Speaker 1: or one point four million felons in Florida who now

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Speaker 1: will have the right to vote. What does that do

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Speaker 1: to the state's dynamics. Well, it's interesting. Look, I don't

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Speaker 1: think every single one of those people is going to

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Speaker 1: become a likely voter. Okay, I don't think every single

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Speaker 1: one of those people is necessarily gonna be a democratic voter. However,

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Speaker 1: I strongly supported this because I believe that you know

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Speaker 1: our justice system, once your sentence is served, you've paid

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Speaker 1: the debt, you danger debt to society and you and

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Speaker 1: you get to move on. So I really think that

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Speaker 1: in that with that particular amendment, it spoke to a

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Speaker 1: fundamental sense of justice. It also spoke to something that

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Speaker 1: in Florida, we are one of the most punitive states

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Speaker 1: in the country on the criminal justice side. We put

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Speaker 1: a lot of young black guys in jail, and we

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Speaker 1: put a lot of them in jail for one point

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Speaker 1: oh one ounces of marijuana. Yeah, I mean this is this.

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Speaker 1: We we put a lot of them in jail in

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Speaker 1: the nineties during the hyper enforcement of the crack epidemic.

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Speaker 1: And I was part of the original right on crime movement,

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Speaker 1: where as conservatives, we we wanted to look at criminal

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Speaker 1: justice in this country and was this an application of

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Speaker 1: state power that was disproportionate, particularly to African American man. Sure,

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Speaker 1: and it is it's unarguable that that is the case.

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Speaker 1: And as a conservative, I don't want the state to

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Speaker 1: have this punitive thing hanging over these these guys heads

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Speaker 1: for their their entire lifespan. So I got an email

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Speaker 1: last night from a guy who not an African American,

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Speaker 1: guy who had had a low level, white collar thing.

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Speaker 1: He goes, I'm going to get to vote for the

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Speaker 1: first time in twenty two years. And this is a

429
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: guy who has been who went to jail for two

430
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: years and absolutely turned his life around in every conceivable way,

431
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 1: the straightest arrow in the universe. And I was like,

432
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 1: that's where this thing comes in. You know, at some

433
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,360
Speaker 1: point are we going to punish people forever and ever?

434
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: And look, it is vastly disproportionate with African American men.

435
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: I don't know what the what the overall percentage is

436
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: going to be of that one point for but I'm

437
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: going to tell you it's probably close to six. So

438
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about voter suppression. There were

439
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: all sorts of questions about vote suppression. I had no

440
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: idea it was so prevalent in Texas. I read a

441
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 1: big article I it was in the Atlantic. But we

442
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: have to talk about Georgia. What what took place in Georgia? Uh,

443
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: somebody tweeted if this was a foreign country, the U

444
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 1: s would be found political from the Atlantic. Yeah, I

445
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: will say this. The things that we're coming out of

446
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 1: Georgia on election night shocked me and and Brian Kemp's

447
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: you know, self interest in the case of I'm going

448
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: to run an enforcement operation to make sure to make

449
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: sure that I win this race. That does strike me

450
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: as as a little smell of the third world around.

451
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,719
Speaker 1: So so is this a viable issue for the Democrats

452
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: to raise broadly, that we should expand voting rights to everything.

453
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: They can raise it, They can raise it, but it's

454
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: not a cutting political issue. It's a boutique issue. And

455
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: what I would do if they were the Democrats is

456
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 1: make sure that we were they were litigating the hell

457
00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 1: out of it, which they they need to um and

458
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: I would if I were, if I were the Democrats

459
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: in in a lot of these states, I would make

460
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: sure that that they do more voter training and education

461
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: so that people know their rights. I mean people being

462
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: told up, sorry, pulls are closed, now you're standing in line.

463
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: The courts have said time and time and time again

464
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: that once you're at a polling place and you're in line,

465
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: you get to vote. Easy lift. But a lot of

466
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: people don't know that Republicans have been very good at

467
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: educating their voters to get out early, to vote, absentee

468
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: to vote, to do early voting. Democrats need do the

469
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 1: same thing because it's harder to do it. It's harder

470
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: to spread out a suppression effort over a week or

471
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 1: two weeks of early voting than it is to do

472
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: shenanigans on election day. We have been speaking with Rick Wilson.

473
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: He is the author of the New York Times best

474
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: selling book Everything Trump Touches Dies. If you enjoy this conversation,

475
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: be sure and check out the podcast extras when we

476
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: keep the tape rolling and continue discussing all things electoral related.

477
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: You can find that wherever you're finding. Podcasts are sold iTunes,

478
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: over cast, Stitcher, or Bloomberg dot com. We love your comments,

479
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: feedback and suggestions right to us at m IB podcast

480
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot net. You can check out my daily

481
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: column on Bloomberg dot com slash Opinion. Follow me on

482
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: Twitter at Ridolts. I'm Barry Ridhults. You're listening to Masters

483
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: in Business on Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to the podcast, Rick,

484
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for doing this. I have to

485
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: tell you, I'm like two thirds of the way through

486
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: the book and it's really hilarious. You have not only

487
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: a wonderful writing style, but a vicious wit. I'm glad

488
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: I never ran a campaign on the other side of you, because, uh,

489
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 1: you seem to have the ability to pull out the

490
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: um dagger and not only sticking in but twist it.

491
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of the things that you mentioned

492
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: in the book look that I find absolutely fascinating. And

493
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: I have to begin with the Tale of Congratulations. What

494
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: to expect when you're gonna work in the Trump White House?

495
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: A tail in five pieces. It's ironic, But everything I

496
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: read in that list, you can name a dozen people

497
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: must have gone through that. It's pretty brutal. Um. What

498
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: is it about Trump that just basically uses people and

499
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: throws them away? And yet there's still a line of

500
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: people willing to get fed into the more of the machine. Well,

501
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna disagree with you on the last part, but

502
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: I'll look back to that. Trump is a bad manager,

503
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: he's a bad leader, he's a bad person, and he's

504
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: a bad president. How do you really feel I don't know,

505
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: you know, I gotta get to a little bit right.

506
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: But the folks that go to work for this guy,

507
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: I mean, they all get they all get demolished. They

508
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: they are every single person that goes into the White

509
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: House loses their soul, their reputation. That's just a shocking

510
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: you know. There there there are people that everyone thought

511
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: would be fine, Like Nicky Haley, she's gonna be fine,

512
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: she's worn out. She ran away? Who wrote? Who wrote

513
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: the anonymous letter? You have any idea? I have an idea,

514
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: but m you're gonna keep it. I'm gonna keep it

515
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: to myself for now because if if it is so

516
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: I think it is, it's actually somebody who's who's pretty

517
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: senior and uh and and and it's not not completely

518
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: bought in. You don't want to you know what, I

519
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: don't want to out them. Yeah, but I will say

520
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: this the story I told there, the what to expect

521
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: when you're working for Trump story. It's a mildly fictionalized

522
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: version of what we've observed over time. And it's also

523
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: something that you know, guys that I knew who had

524
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: done business with him here and in Florida told the

525
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: same story. He's, yeah, who's that going to work for Trump?

526
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: And he promises them you're gonna be a billionaire too,

527
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be great, and we're all gonna be

528
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: driving Lamborghinis and and they bust their asked for a

529
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: few years, they do that one of these projects for him,

530
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: and then then they get shafted. Right. It's amazing when

531
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: that story came out that there were three thousand pending

532
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: litigations from contractors who want to get paid. I heard.

533
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: I heard a wonderful story of a guy. Um. I

534
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: have a friend who worked in his legal department briefly

535
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: and went back to a farm. Said it's just insane. Um.

536
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: They needed this guy to get a certificate of occupancy

537
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: and he basically said, nope, you consume you could do

538
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: what you want. You will not get a CEO. You

539
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: could shut this whole project down. Every day what you

540
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: only goes up. There's interest and penalties. My advice to

541
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: you is to pay this tomorrow. And other than that guy,

542
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody who's been in that sort of

543
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: dispute and actually got paid. And yet people continue to

544
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: line up. Although you're gonna push back on that, I

545
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,959
Speaker 1: will push back on that. Because Trump has had so

546
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: much difficulty recruiting people who can walk and chew gum

547
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: at the same time he is surround it himself with

548
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: a subpar, no doubt, group of people, both in the

549
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: cabinet um and inside inside the White House itself. These

550
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: guys are checked out. They are engaged in a constant

551
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: war with each other. All of them hate one another.

552
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: I mean they're constant leaking between Jared Kushner and John Kelly,

553
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: and between Kelly Anne and every other human being on earth,

554
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: and and Sarah Sanders sniping at other people. And these

555
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: guys are all This is the leakiest white House we've

556
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: seen in ages. I have a rule over time that's

557
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: been proven pretty pretty accurate. Good white houses leak on purpose.

558
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: Bad white houses and unhappy white houses leak all the time.

559
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: This white House, this golden age of journalism we're in

560
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: is because everyone in the White House, from the President

561
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: on down, is leaking to dog other people around them.

562
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: It is a I mean, the wave of leaks that

563
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: will come out after this election, of everyone blaming Trump.

564
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: They're gonna be inside the White House and he can't

565
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: He's he doesn't get it. He's blowing this. It's it's

566
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: it's gonna hurt him in if he talks about a

567
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: red wave, which was his big conceit for weeks and

568
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: weeks on end, there'll be a red wave. We're gonna

569
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: gain seats in the House. It's gonna be great. We're

570
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: gonna have the best day ever. I'm the King of

571
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: This didn't quite work out that way. But so all

572
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: these folks inside the White House, they're constantly having their

573
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: egos just ground up. They're constantly forced to go out

574
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: and and adopt public positions that they know our lives,

575
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: that they know are anathema, that they know will end

576
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: up hurting their reputations in the long run. And and

577
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: yet you know, the ones they do, the ones who

578
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: are the ones who were stuck there, are stuck there

579
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: because you wouldn't hire these people to manage a waffle house.

580
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: So you mentioned Jared and Ivanka. What's with the nepotism

581
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: and bringing the family in. It just seems so at

582
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: odds with everything we've learned about how do you ethically

583
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: run a business? But remember, the business of Trump is

584
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: not government or patriotism or loyalty to the country or

585
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: service to the American people. The business of Trump is Trump,

586
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: and he doesn't he skipped that part in the Constitution

587
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: where we don't do titles of royalty, because he seriously

588
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: considers himself to be some sort of you know, uh

589
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: royal figure above the law, above the constitution, and his

590
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: and the royal family idea is something that is clearly

591
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: playing out here. You have his fans who say things like, well,

592
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: after Trump runs, then Don Junior will run, then Ivanka

593
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: will run, and then Eric will run, and then Baron

594
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: will run in the near in the far far future,

595
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: and they can't you know, the cult like devotion to

596
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: this guy is one of the most shocking elements of Trump,

597
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: isn't it is. I mean, look, I love me some,

598
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: George W. R. George H. W. Bush, I love me some.

599
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: George Bush, I love me some. Jeb Bush. Bush family

600
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: has been great to me, and I've been loyal back.

601
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: But you of what if one of them said to me, hey,

602
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: go drink this poison cool aid, I wouldn't do it.

603
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: But Trump could stack people up like jonestown and they

604
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: would do it. The his his line about shoot somebody

605
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: on Fifth Avenue had the disadvantage for our country of

606
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: being entirely true. That that's shocking. Um, Let me shift

607
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: games a little bit and ask you about the unspoken

608
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: elephant in the room. The past month, the Mueller investigation

609
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: continues silently to grind forward. My best guests is, let

610
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: me rephrase that if I had to pick somebody, assuming

611
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: I was running a sort of sketchy business and there

612
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: perhaps might have been some Russian involvement and maybe to

613
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: some money laundering, if I had to pick the one

614
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: guy I didn't want investigating me, it would pretty much

615
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: be Robert Mueller. This guy was built to investigate Trump.

616
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: How does this play out? The last two months, Robert

617
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: Mueller made a very conscious decision to become a hunter submarine.

618
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: He's under the water, he's listening, he's working, he knows

619
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,399
Speaker 1: where the targets are. Just because you don't see him

620
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: doesn't mean he doesn't see you. This is a guy

621
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: with a reputation for being methodical, for being diligent, for

622
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: driving home, for going for getting to the X of

623
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: any operation. And he's got resources both on the intelligent side,

624
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: on the on the financial investigatory side, and on the

625
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 1: legal side that the clown show around Donald Trump has

626
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: never taken seriously and never understood, and what happened with

627
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 1: the election. Robert Mueller is protected now that Trump can't

628
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: just idly fire Robert Mueller, and what happens if he does.

629
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: It's the apocalypse politically. I mean this that do you

630
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: end up with the House Oversight Committee hires Robert Muller

631
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: and the investigation. Let's just go ahead. Now, they can

632
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: also ask for Robert Mueller to provide them that report,

633
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: which would not have happened, and you would not have

634
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 1: happened with Devin Nunyez and and good Latin, those guys

635
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: that would never have happened. It would never seen the

636
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: light of day. There will be political consequences now. And

637
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 1: there is no defense operation where Nunez or roar Backer

638
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: or Jordan or any of these, any of these guys

639
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: Team Obstruction I call them. There's no further ability for

640
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,439
Speaker 1: them now that they're not chairman, to go out there

641
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: and filibuster on the you know, in these hearings, to

642
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: blast Robert Mueller and to blow up the FBI, and

643
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: to go and attack an assault an investigation, and and

644
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 1: to look away from the involvement of Russia and trying

645
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: to manipulate our elections. So what's going to happen is

646
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: the shock and awe effect of of further indictments is

647
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: going to cause a sort of accelerating cycle. Trump will

648
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: get more and more crazed by the way. I think

649
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,399
Speaker 1: Jeff Sessions has gone. Within a week, I think he's out.

650
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: Isn't it all I was gonna say normally, isn't the

651
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: second term when when there's a turnover, But you just

652
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: saying post election, he's done, post midm post mid terms.

653
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: I think he's gone because Trump recognizes that the most

654
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: dangerous window of time for him going forward is between

655
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: right now and when the Democrats take power. His actions

656
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: in the next ninety days are going to be very

657
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: very telling, um, and it's gonna be very very dangerous

658
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: for this country in sixty days, excise me so. So

659
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 1: assume he he asks Sessions to resign. If Session resigns,

660
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: he could do an interim appointment. But if Session says, Nope,

661
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: you've gotta fire me. Oh, he's gonna you know, he's

662
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: gonna have to fire Sessions. But I think Sessions will go.

663
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: I think he will. He will go in the next

664
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: sixty days, before before the Democrats new And I will

665
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: say this also, I know, for I know the White

666
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: House has been shopping for a new a g and

667
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: I know, well you could see Lindsey Graham kissing up

668
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: that slot. Yeah. But I the person that's rumored very

669
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: heavily right now is Ham Bondi, the former Aga Florida

670
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: who who By the way, when you look at the

671
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: Florida foreclosure debacle, correct, it was as corrupt as any

672
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: public official ever. I've spoken to Trump friendly Republicans in

673
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: the Senate who are begging him, do not name her.

674
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: Is she gonna open an amazing she cannot, she cannot

675
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: be confirmed, Do not name her. So if he tries

676
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: to name Pam Bondy as the a G I think

677
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: they're gonna be some there's gonna be some very very

678
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: hard pushback, even from his own side. Um. But but

679
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: the narrow window between now and when the Democrats what's

680
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: the date of that? Um, the narrow window between now

681
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: and then, it's going to be a fact, a very

682
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 1: risky time. But I think he may buy himself more

683
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: trouble if he does. I mean, the guy's already like

684
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: knocking on the door of obstruction charges every single day.

685
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: So if he tries to play Shenanigans between now in

686
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: the time of Democrats have oversight ability, it's going to

687
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: be a real uh, it's gonna be a really ugly moment.

688
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: And I think one of the things about the Democrats

689
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: taking over that people are underestimating They're not as dumb

690
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: as they look. They're not gonna race the shift is

691
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: pretty They're not They're gonna They're not gonna race to

692
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: impeach Donald Trump. This is the death of a thousand cuts.

693
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: This isn't easy. You know, we're trying to throw the

694
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: president out of office. This is gonna be We need

695
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: your taxes now. We need to talk about your business dealings.

696
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: We need to talk about um, you know, your your

697
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: dealings with Russia and Russian banks and Russian oligarchs. When

698
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: you talk about your meetings with the Russians, we need

699
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 1: to talk about your communication with them. When you talk

700
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 1: about Cambridge Analytic and Steve Bannon, the relations. They're gonna

701
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: just peel this thing back, one little, one little strip

702
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: at a time, and it's gonna make Trump crazy. Is

703
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: he dangerous when he's crazy? Is he more dangerous? I

704
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 1: should say. I think Trump is a danger to the

705
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: rule of law in this country. And I think there

706
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: have been very few checks on him so far. And

707
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: I think he grew accustomed to being unaccountable. And when

708
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,240
Speaker 1: people are accustomed to being unaccountable, they are dangerous. Now,

709
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: you've been on Bill mars show right a couple times,

710
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: and and mar thinks that when it's time for him

711
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: to go, he's not gonna leave. I don't buy into that.

712
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: I think the mechanism of between the secret service in

713
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: the military and the police, it's going to be I

714
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 1: don't care what you say, Grandpa, here here's the door.

715
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,959
Speaker 1: I could be wrong, but I doubt it. That would

716
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: be a hell of a moment. That would be a

717
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: hell of a constitutional test in this country, the most

718
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: severe constitutional test we've had since Nixon. And and it

719
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: is a real question about whether Trump um look hypothesized

720
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,479
Speaker 1: that he's impeached for whatever purposes we have. They find

721
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: video of a Putin giving him a sack of money,

722
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: and you know, let's just hypothesize he gets impeached. It

723
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: is gonna be tough to drag him out of that

724
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: out of that room. I think Bill is right about that,

725
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: But I think at the end, but he'll be impeached,

726
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: not convicted, and so why bother correct he In the end,

727
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: the impeachment thing has always been a unicorn for Democrats. Okay,

728
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: let's suppose they impeach them in the House. They could

729
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: do it tomorrow. So what you know they could do it?

730
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 1: You got how you get to two thirds of the Senate,

731
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: don't You don't even get the Senate. So why alienate

732
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: the people? That's why I think they're going to go

733
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 1: and investigate and tear things over slowly, and it's gonna

734
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: look is an administration that is lavishly corrupt. Lavishly corrupt

735
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: they are, they are you know, they are so overt

736
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: about it. We look like the cold guys. They basically

737
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: took a shopping list to the White House with prices

738
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: next to the things they wanted. Oh, well, you get

739
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: a million dollars if you if you take care of

740
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: this regulation, and we'll give it. We'll give the Inaugural

741
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: Committee half a million if you'll do this for this company.

742
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: These guys, it's just they aren't even pretending. And so

743
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: and what about the amalience clause. That's got to be

744
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: an issue that comes out. It should be an issue

745
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 1: that comes up, and it will be I think, and

746
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: that as I think, by the way, one of the

747
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: venues where Donald Trump's tax has become revealed because how

748
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 1: do you know, We've got to have an answer on that,

749
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:09,720
Speaker 1: and the only way we can really get that answer

750
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: because you know, Donald Trump's financial statements are always sort

751
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: of mythical creatures. You know, it's it's man, bear, pig,

752
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: it's whatever he thinks up at that moment. I'm worth

753
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: ten billion dollars because I believe my brand is worth

754
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: seven billion, okay, eight billion, in goodwill do brand equity

755
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: is different than what you think it is, Donald um.

756
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: But you know, so I think the emolument stuff where

757
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: this guy is obviously profiting off of lobbyists. And look,

758
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: I know of tunnel obbyists in d C, their friends

759
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: and foreign countries going to the trumpels, and they now

760
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: go to the Trump hotel to have all of their

761
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: meetings and all of their events, and they pay a

762
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 1: gigantic premium, a gigantic premium across the street at the Willard,

763
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: which is not exactly the Motel six. Everything in d

764
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: C now has to go through the Trump properties. And

765
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: so that's it's like such small, crappy grift, but it's grift.

766
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just are they gonna have to disgorge

767
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: those profits I don't have to disgorge them, but I

768
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 1: think they have to disclose them. And I think that's

769
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: why you get to the taxes under a monument. That's amazing.

770
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: I know I don't have you forever, So let me

771
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: get to my favorite questions and our speed round. Let's

772
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 1: plow through this. Let's do it. What's the most important

773
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: thing People don't know about Rick Wilson. They don't know

774
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: that I am a hell of a cook. Quite fascinating.

775
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: Who are some of your early mentors? Some of my

776
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: early mentors, Um, Well, this guy named Dick Cheney. Uh really,

777
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: he was the Secretary of Defense. I mean you you

778
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: learned from Vice President well and Vice president later. Um.

779
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: There was a guy that I also worked with a

780
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: lot named Donald Rice. He was the Secretary of the

781
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: Air Force. One of the most brilliant, considered policy guys

782
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: I ever met in my career. Um And and I've

783
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: been I've been very fortunate over the years to learn

784
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: from great people in New York. Ray Harding, who was

785
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: the chairman of the New York Liberal Party, which is

786
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: very used to say it's neither liberal nor a party,

787
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: it's my political machine. Ray taught me more about New

788
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,760
Speaker 1: York politics than any human being on earth. But I've

789
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: been very fortunate over the years. Since you're here discussing

790
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: your book, let's talk about books. What are some of

791
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 1: your favorite books, be they politics or what have you. Well, um,

792
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say my one of my favorite books, um

793
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: is Cryptonomicon by Neil Stephenson. Sure, which is about money

794
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: and encryption and war. I'm I'm I'm a big fan

795
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: of overly complicated stuff like that. Um. Um. It was

796
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 1: a classically educated guy, so I read a lot of

797
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: I read a lot of ancient history. UM. Give us

798
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: a name. Well, Livy and and Plutarch and Tacitus. So

799
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: you're talking about real classic yeah, yes, like actual um,

800
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: but for modern version, modern interpretation that Michael Grant's very

801
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 1: good about a lot of that stuff. Um. I read voraciously.

802
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: So my my house is way too fold books. So

803
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: there are worse things to have filling up your house. UM.

804
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 1: So what are you excited about right now? What? What?

805
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: And I know that's a silly question because I know

806
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: what you're excited about. I'm excited about the fact that

807
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: America is under a big stress test right now, and

808
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: and I'm excited to watch how our resilience plays itself

809
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 1: out this time. I am really fundamentally optimistic about the country.

810
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: I think Trump is a terrible, destructive, horrible figure in

811
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: our in our politics and our society. But I also

812
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: think that there have been our immune system. It takes

813
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: a while to kick in sometimes, but it always does

814
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:40,240
Speaker 1: in the end. And I feel that starting to reshape

815
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: where we're going politically in the country. And I'm also

816
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 1: excited about the sort of you know, modern elements of

817
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: of you know, the bad sides of social media we've

818
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: seen now, but I think it's also providing this new

819
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: organizing tool and and and and this new way of

820
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: for people to remediate themselves into effective political groups. So

821
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: tell us about time you failed and what you learned

822
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: from the experience. Sure, it failed in I did everything

823
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: I could to stop Donald Trump. I helped run Evan

824
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: McMullen's presidential campaign as an independent. We absolutely crashed and burned.

825
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: It was horrifying. What I learned was the two party

826
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: system is really strong, that tribal affinity is really strong,

827
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 1: and you have to bring a real a game to

828
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: those things to to break that mold. And and you know,

829
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: you learn more from the campaigns you lose in the

830
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: campaigns you win. Isn't it always that way? Always always

831
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: learn from failure. What do you do for fun? You

832
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: mentioned cooking? What else? Hunt? I fly? I like to

833
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: be out on the water, pilots in pilots license, Um

834
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: what do you fly? Piper archer? So this a little thing,

835
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: but um I I I get out as much as

836
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: I can on the water, which I love. I love

837
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: my I've got a bunch of hunting dogs, German short

838
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: hair pointers and uh and and luckily, since I live

839
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: in Florida, I love the chainsaw things because we have

840
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: a lot of trees down after the big storms lately,

841
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: so we came very close to getting a griff on

842
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: German short haired. Uh. They're just spectacular. Juran short hairs

843
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: are an amazing They're great hunting dogs in the field.

844
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 1: They're great family dogs at all. Just have to run them.

845
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: You do have to run them. I have a Portuguese

846
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: word dog love them in the pool, out on the

847
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 1: boat constantly. Um. All right, So a millennial comes up

848
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: to you and says, I'm interested in a career in

849
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: political consulting. What sort of advice would you give them? Um?

850
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: The first advice I would give them is go volunteer

851
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: on a campaign, to do the crappiest job you can find. Drive.

852
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 1: You know, I started out with Connie Mack as a

853
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: as an advanced kid, as a driver. That was how

854
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 1: I started in this thing. I ended up meeting and

855
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: getting to work for the president of the future president

856
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: of the United States because I had hustle and you know,

857
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 1: being willing to go out and do the and do

858
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: the scut work and the crap jobs and the stuff

859
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: that you don't you know, they get this sort of

860
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: wrong impression from watching television where there's these twenty four

861
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: year olds in perfect suits in the White House being,

862
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 1: you know, senior officials. You gotta go do the hard work.

863
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: And politics is one of those few things in this

864
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: country where it doesn't matter where you went to school.

865
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,240
Speaker 1: You've got to go out and be in the field

866
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: and bust your tail, and you've got to go do

867
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: the things that you put up the stupid yard signs

868
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: and go deal with the with the cranky volunteers and

869
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: go knock the doors. You don't get into this, into

870
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: this tribe of consulting unless you go and do those

871
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 1: things and and it's all. It's it's there's no shortcut

872
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: to it makes sense. And our final question, what do

873
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: you know about the world of politics today? You wish

874
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: you knew thirty or so years ago. People lie upholsters

875
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 1: all the time? Really, yes, that they lie upholsters all

876
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 1: the time. That is not well understood by a lot

877
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: of fun though, And it's it's clearer and clearer all

878
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: the time. How much they're a bunch of damn liars. Amazing.

879
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: I love it. I love I love trying to like

880
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: get to the nut of a question with with polling.

881
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: But you've got a dispactor that in these days quite

882
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: quite astonishing. We have been speaking with Rick Wilson. He

883
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: is the author of the New York Times bestseller Everything

884
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: Trump Touches Dies. If you enjoy this conversation, well look

885
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: up an inch or down an inch on Apple iTunes

886
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: and you could see any of our other Let's uh

887
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: round it up to the size of Trump's inaugural address

888
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: and call it two d and fifty previous conversations over

889
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: the past five years. We love your comments, feedback and

890
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,800
Speaker 1: suggestions right to us at m IB podcast at Bloomberg

891
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: dot net. You can check out my daily column on

892
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com. Follow me on Twitter at rit Halts.

893
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: I would be remiss if I did not thank the

894
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: crack staff that helps put these conversations together each week.

895
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: Michael Batnick is my head of research. Taylor Riggs is

896
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: our book or Slash producer. I'm Barry rit Halts. You've

897
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.