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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Fund The Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com Slash podcast. Looking at Bitcoin up

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Speaker 1: one point five sixteen thousand, six hundreds, still way way

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Speaker 1: below that support level it seemed to be at forever

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Speaker 1: of dollars photographer. It's been a wild ride for the cryptospace,

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Speaker 1: and we want to break it down with some experts

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Speaker 1: here Mike mclogan's senior commodity strategist with Bloomberg Intelligence, and

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Speaker 1: Katie Greifeld, cross Asset reporter or Bloomberg News. They are

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Speaker 1: both in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Thank goodness, Thank goodness,

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Speaker 1: I have some things I need to get off my check.

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Speaker 1: Do you go all right? First of all, cz guys

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Speaker 1: has suggested some kind of lender of last resort fund right?

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Speaker 1: Is he gonna next suggest some kind of central bank

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Speaker 1: that will print bitcoin whenever they're needed? I mean, does

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Speaker 1: he not understand the idea that the origins of cryptocurrency, Mike,

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Speaker 1: does it not bother you? It does. And I've actually

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Speaker 1: this weekend was so much of that kind of information around.

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Speaker 1: I deliberately try to ignore it because it it gets

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Speaker 1: past what really matters. Now, this is just digging into

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Speaker 1: what person who turned out to be duked us all,

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Speaker 1: including me um And but you didn't have any money

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Speaker 1: on FTX did I didn't, And I'm not allowed to

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Speaker 1: invest a lot in cryptos. I can invest the minimus amounts,

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Speaker 1: so I have a lot of just changes small amounts.

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Speaker 1: I didn't. But the key thing would start with first

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Speaker 1: of all, Bitcoin is actually down on the on the

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Speaker 1: day because what you see in the screen was from yesterday,

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Speaker 1: and that's it's always messes me up on Monday's. So

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Speaker 1: it's actually it's actually down about one or two percent

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Speaker 1: on the week because you have to compare Apple's apps. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you're saying from Friday's Fridays, but that's the thing to

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Speaker 1: remember about. People are realizing this thing never stops trading.

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Speaker 1: So and I'll also point out what so it really

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Speaker 1: might me dig into what's happened so far as cryptos

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Speaker 1: have gone down a lot. But if you look at

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Galaxy crypto indic, since this whole thing started

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Speaker 1: end of two thousand nineteen, it's still up two so

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Speaker 1: we can drop, it's still up, so I can drop

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Speaker 1: fifty and still percent it's still be in the nantics.

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Speaker 1: So it's just maximum performance going back down. But what

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Speaker 1: I see coming out of this is more regulation. What

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Speaker 1: more regulation means institutions need that more centralization is what

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Speaker 1: they need. What you're saying right, this is what the

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Speaker 1: decentralized financial world needs, Katie, Uh, your crypto native or

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Speaker 1: at least digitally native digital. When you and your cohort

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Speaker 1: um want to buy trustless currency, um, do you then

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Speaker 1: leave it on someone else's in someone else's wallet? Do

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Speaker 1: you let somebody else have the keys? Why do people

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Speaker 1: not take their crypto immediately, put it in their own

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Speaker 1: walls and take it offline. I will not speak for myself,

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Speaker 1: as I am a journalist and like Mike can't not

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Speaker 1: really invest in cryptocurrency. But when I talk to my appears,

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Speaker 1: for example, I mean a lot of them, the one

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Speaker 1: who are crypto curious. They went through the likes of

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Speaker 1: coin base for example, maybe Robin hood. But what's interesting

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Speaker 1: now is that you're seeing billions of dollars from exchanges

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Speaker 1: because no one really trusts them. I mean, people are

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Speaker 1: going into cold storage they want their keys back. I

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Speaker 1: think f t X is a great example of why

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Speaker 1: if you're a hardcore bitcoin believer, maybe you don't want

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Speaker 1: to be on one of these centralized exchanges. You want

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Speaker 1: your bitcoin, you want to know where it is. So

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Speaker 1: there you go. So I want to get to just

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Speaker 1: want angle with you, Sam Bankman Freed, what what do

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Speaker 1: we know? Was? Is there fraud there? Why is he

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Speaker 1: not in an FBI office somewhere answering questions right now?

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Speaker 1: As opposed to the Bahamas. It's an interesting question that

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Speaker 1: I don't have the answer to. Is why f t

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Speaker 1: X filed for bankruptcy in the US if they're based

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Speaker 1: in the Bahamas. I believe he's in the Bahamas. The

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Speaker 1: reporting would suggest that he is. I mean, we know

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Speaker 1: that Bahamas authorities spoke to him. That would imply physically

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Speaker 1: they're in the Bahamas. I don't el though. I mean

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Speaker 1: there's an ongo I mean, there are million questions that

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Speaker 1: we have. I'm sure Katie has the same questions even

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Speaker 1: if she had a hunch as to an answer. Probably

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Speaker 1: wouldn't want to give it to us on live radio, right,

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Speaker 1: but maybe Mike will um. I mean, how did they

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Speaker 1: have such a big eight nine billion dollar hole? Was

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Speaker 1: their fraud? Also? Who took the four to six hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollars of coins in the last couple of days?

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Speaker 1: Is anybody on the run? What can you tell us?

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Speaker 1: I think the word first world is illegal co mingling?

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Speaker 1: Now how we've heard this in future since I've been

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Speaker 1: in the business, and you've seen firms going there. It's

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Speaker 1: just a different level, different people, different time. And LaMDA

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Speaker 1: was a research arm, which was they say they were

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Speaker 1: channeling of customer funds. Apparently they might have been channeling

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Speaker 1: customer funds into campaign donations to the Binding compaign. Number

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Speaker 1: number two donator to the Binding camp campaign was SPF.

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Speaker 1: So oh yeah, so it's it's shocking that way. And

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Speaker 1: see ze, by the way, it was an ex Bloomberg employee,

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Speaker 1: so we have had quality from X Bloomberg employees coming

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Speaker 1: from c Z. I did not know that. Wow, all right, Mike,

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Speaker 1: you're in Miami not just because you love the warm

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Speaker 1: weather and you had enough a Connecticut But let's face

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Speaker 1: it in the crypto world. They're trying to establish themselves

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Speaker 1: as a a physical leading space where the smart crypto

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Speaker 1: people go. Given that backdrop, what's the feeling out of

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Speaker 1: Miami over the past three or four or five days.

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Speaker 1: Are people just kind of throwing their hands up, like

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Speaker 1: what do we get ourselves into? Or I'm not sensing

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Speaker 1: that public? Give you one example, MasterCard. A good friend

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Speaker 1: of mine who is a former New York you know

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Speaker 1: Wall Street guy, just moved to Miami to work for

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Speaker 1: MasterCard in cryptos. That's how things are changing. Two years

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Speaker 1: ago that that sentence, what would have been an oxymoron.

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Speaker 1: So I think the big just did and he's getting

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Speaker 1: a pink slip tomorrow. Well that's the problem. But here's

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Speaker 1: the thing that's happening. One thing that's you look at Ethereum.

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Speaker 1: Athereum is up one thousand or ten x since two

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Speaker 1: thousand nineteen. Sure it's dropped a lot, but you know

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Speaker 1: it started a hundred now just over a thousand. What

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Speaker 1: is it doing. It's revelized the revolution is in fintech

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Speaker 1: and like it makes possible the most white Trady cryptos.

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Speaker 1: It's the dollar crypto door. So I think it's gonna

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Speaker 1: bring on US regulation. But the US realizes this is

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Speaker 1: making the base layer for the whole world to be

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Speaker 1: a cryptos. The dollar and Ethereum is doing that, so

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Speaker 1: people get the technology. This is a major sell, but

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Speaker 1: it's just a bump in the road I've seen in

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Speaker 1: terms of what I love that perspective because I don't

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Speaker 1: have that perspective a last week. Right, we gotta get

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Speaker 1: Mike and Cameron cries On together because they disagree like

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Speaker 1: a hundred and I was playing that. Alright, Alright, guys,

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Speaker 1: that's good stuff. We'll gonna keep on top of this story.

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Speaker 1: And we can do that because we got some really

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Speaker 1: smart people that have experience in this space and that

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Speaker 1: is hard to find around there. Mike McLoone, Senior Commodity

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Speaker 1: Strategies with Bloomberg Intelligence. He's been dealing and trading commodities

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Speaker 1: forever and that's what crypto is for a lot of folks.

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Speaker 1: And Katie Gray Felt Cross Asset, Cross Asset Reporter and

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Speaker 1: that now includes a crypto. She does that with Bloomberg News.

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Speaker 1: We take a look at some of the price action

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Speaker 1: of last week, particularly towards the end of the weekend

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Speaker 1: that big Thursday rip kind of brings back that bowl

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Speaker 1: call that's been out there for a while, which is,

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Speaker 1: you know, these risk on assets can work late into

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Speaker 1: the year, maybe rally towards the year because we've seen

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Speaker 1: peak interest rates, we've seen peak inflation. Uh, earnings have

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Speaker 1: come down, they've been reset. Maybe this is kind of

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Speaker 1: sets you for good clothes. Sean O'Hara, President of pac

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Speaker 1: your et S. Sean, what do you think of that

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Speaker 1: calls out a little naive or or do you in

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Speaker 1: fact think that maybe a lot of the headwinds are

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Speaker 1: starting to abate and it might be time to take

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Speaker 1: on some more risk. Wel, good morning, Thanks for having me. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a little premature to to to sort

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Speaker 1: of make that call, you know. I mean, it's just

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Speaker 1: doing some simple math. If you if you think the

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Speaker 1: SMP is gonna earn like, you know, two thirty bucks

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Speaker 1: next year, we're still trading at a level that's probably

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Speaker 1: higher on a pe basis than perhaps the market should be.

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Speaker 1: But that's the whole market. And so I think the big,

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Speaker 1: the big drag on that is potentially going to be tech. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, tech is as a sector the last six

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Speaker 1: years have seen their stock prices go up about fifty

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Speaker 1: percent more than their earnings, whereas the rest of the

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Speaker 1: market has sort of adjusted itself in its healthcare as

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Speaker 1: an example, Actually the stocks in the healthcare sector have

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Speaker 1: gone up less than their earnings the last six years.

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Speaker 1: There are pockets of opportunity. I wouldn't be making a

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Speaker 1: broad market call that, you know, things are going to

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Speaker 1: go back to the way they were, and that inflation

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Speaker 1: is not a problem anymore, and inflation is going to

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Speaker 1: continue to be stubborn. You know, we saw a minor

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Speaker 1: decrease in the year over year increase, and I think

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Speaker 1: everybody took that to mean, well, you know, we just

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Speaker 1: have to have a couple more months and this is

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Speaker 1: all over with and we're back to the races. I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's going to play out that way. So,

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Speaker 1: but there are sectors you find attractive, healthcare being one

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Speaker 1: of them, um energy another. These are obviously huge pieces

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Speaker 1: of the inflation picture. I mean healthcare. I guess we

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Speaker 1: see massive inflation there all the time, even when we

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Speaker 1: don't have it in the rest of the economy. But

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Speaker 1: why do you like why do you like them? Well,

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Speaker 1: we we have a large cap fund ceow Z and

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Speaker 1: our et F family. It's cash cow, that's one of

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Speaker 1: our favorites, and it's up here to date. It's up

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Speaker 1: like five percent year to date. So, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's overweight energy, it's overweight healthcare and silver right materials.

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Speaker 1: It's as underweight as it's ever been consumer discretionary in tech,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, the consumer is going to be

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Speaker 1: I think in a big, big quandary here. They're gonna

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Speaker 1: get squeezed. They're going to have to make decisions. You know,

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Speaker 1: this winter, some people are gonna have to decide whether

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Speaker 1: they want to eat or heat their house. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, the Thanksgiving holiday is going to

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Speaker 1: be a big shocker to people in terms of how

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Speaker 1: much more it's going to cost this year. But when

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Speaker 1: you look at detectors like energy or healthcare, they're trading

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Speaker 1: in relatively inexpensive levels historically. I think the healthcare trade

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Speaker 1: is both in inflation and a demographics play. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: the demographics and healthcare got hidden by COVID, and once

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Speaker 1: COVID is out of the way, I think that demographic

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Speaker 1: trend will pick back up. You know, as people get older,

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Speaker 1: they need more health care of the baby boomers ten

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Speaker 1: thousand people a day for the next decade or so

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Speaker 1: turning age sixty and energy is you know that they've

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Speaker 1: just got so much cash flow in the energy sector.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think that oil prices are going to

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Speaker 1: go back down. I think they're more likely to continue

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Speaker 1: to hover in this ranger or maybe maybe increase a

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Speaker 1: little as the winter months come on. So there are

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Speaker 1: plenty of places to make money. I just don't think

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Speaker 1: it's going to be the same places that people have

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Speaker 1: made money in the past, and so we accepted adjust

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Speaker 1: our expectations and our views. I don't think you can

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Speaker 1: continue to be a broad market investor. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: Mike Wilson's a very smart guy, has been very right

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Speaker 1: on a lot of his calls. And if he's saying

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Speaker 1: that next year the SMP is going to be where

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Speaker 1: it is this year, then you just can't buy the SMP.

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Speaker 1: You've got to figure out how to find places within

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Speaker 1: the SMP to make money. So far, that's been you know,

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Speaker 1: the under you underliked or undernoticed sectors like energy, healthcare, materials, industrials,

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Speaker 1: and staples. So Sean we we we had some elections

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Speaker 1: recently and looks like we're gonna have a divided government.

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Speaker 1: A lot of folks saying that's bullish for risk assets.

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Speaker 1: Are you in that camp? I am, um, although I

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Speaker 1: don't know what the it's ultimately gonna wind up that way.

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Speaker 1: I mean I would wait waiting on Georgia. Um. I mean, well, George,

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Speaker 1: the Senate's over there, you know, the Senate, we're not.

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Speaker 1: The Republicans are going to control the sense. All that's

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Speaker 1: left is really that they can squeak out a win

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Speaker 1: in the House, and that would be you know, the

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Speaker 1: most divided of all divided governments, because all spending bills

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Speaker 1: start in the House, and so they won't you know,

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Speaker 1: with the Democrat House, they can at least make their

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Speaker 1: way to the Senate and then the ultimate to the

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Speaker 1: President's desk. I don't think there's going to be any

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Speaker 1: spending bills that will come out of the House if

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Speaker 1: it's controlled by the Republicans, and the market generally likes that.

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Speaker 1: But you have, you know, this over I don't think

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Speaker 1: you can go purely based on historical trends. You know

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Speaker 1: that every time we have you know, divided government, the

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Speaker 1: market goes up or from November to April. The markets

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Speaker 1: always up and these sort of you know, cyclical stories

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Speaker 1: or historical or trend aask trends. I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have to take a look at what's really going on,

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Speaker 1: and and what's really going on is that, you know,

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Speaker 1: inflation continues to be a struggle. It would wouldn't surprise

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Speaker 1: me if the FED changed its target for inflation and

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Speaker 1: moved it up a little bit since they're having such

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Speaker 1: a hard time. But they're just committed to raising rates

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Speaker 1: so much so that they are going to damp in

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Speaker 1: quote unquote demand, which means they're going to basically slow

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Speaker 1: down the economy. And the question is going to be

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Speaker 1: are they going to slow it down and have it,

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Speaker 1: you know, come to a soft landing or they have

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Speaker 1: to slow it down things come crashing down. And I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you base you know, your judgment on

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Speaker 1: historical you know, anomalies with them, you know, do they

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Speaker 1: ever get it right at the Fed? They very rarely

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Speaker 1: do get it right. So I will hope for better

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Speaker 1: performance coming up here. Shaun O'Hara, he's a president of

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Speaker 1: pacer Ets, hope for it, but we won't invest that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's what said that's right. Hope for the best,

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Speaker 1: prepared for the worst. Shawn Ohara, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us your ETF shows at one End Wall Street

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Speaker 1: time today. Right, that's correct. You talk a lot butts

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Speaker 1: because that's where the money. Well, they've been huge this year,

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Speaker 1: right when you haven't seen any I, P O, S,

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Speaker 1: M and A has burned out, but E t F

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Speaker 1: launches just continue to pile in it and investors are

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Speaker 1: loving it. And some real names in terms of the

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Speaker 1: firms no larger global head of E t S at

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Speaker 1: one of those real names, Alliance Bernstein. Uh no, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us here talk to us about

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Speaker 1: active e t f s and kind of how that

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Speaker 1: plays into kind of what you guys are doing there

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Speaker 1: at Alliance Bernstein. Thanks very much for having me on

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Speaker 1: this morning. Yeah, I think you know, active ETFs are

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Speaker 1: pretty interesting part of the landscape multiple last two years. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're coming up on thirty years of et

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Speaker 1: F s in the U S. But but the active

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Speaker 1: scene is really While we've had active products in the

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Speaker 1: last fourteen fifty years, it's really popped in the last

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Speaker 1: couple of years, um for us and Alliance Bernstein. You

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Speaker 1: know this was an important step of taking some of

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Speaker 1: our best thinking and figuring out how to put it

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Speaker 1: into a vehicle that's very accessible, UM, easy for clients

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Speaker 1: to get to. Uh, just just really meeting them where

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Speaker 1: they are, and the land escape is shifted. In the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years, the SEC made some some changes

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Speaker 1: to the rule set for issuing ETPs about two and

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Speaker 1: a half years ago, and that's been a driver behind

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Speaker 1: a lot of the firms, you know, Laton like lines

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Speaker 1: Burnstein and others saying it's it's a good time to

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Speaker 1: get into this space. So, I mean, does this completely

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Speaker 1: take over? We've seen a lot of UM mutual funds

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Speaker 1: convert into e t s, which makes sense right because

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Speaker 1: you have a smaller cost basis and they're easier to trade.

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Speaker 1: Is it? Do you think the future do we do

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Speaker 1: we even need mutual funds anymore? Yeah? I think I

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Speaker 1: think there's still a place. I mean, it's very you know,

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Speaker 1: look at the trend is absolutely there that etp s

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Speaker 1: are growing continuing to take a greater and greater share

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Speaker 1: of the flows. But you think of the retirement space

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Speaker 1: where maybe a mutual funder like a collective trust structure

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Speaker 1: UM is still you know, incredibly vibrant, um other other

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Speaker 1: areas of distribution where um, you know, the et F

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Speaker 1: doesn't always fit as neatly. So I don't think. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think since I've been in I've been doing this

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Speaker 1: for more than uh more years, and I care to

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Speaker 1: say um, and people have been sort of saying, oh,

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Speaker 1: against the end of mutual funds. But but really, you know,

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Speaker 1: we know that from the utility perspective. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: rarely a one size fits all and the space for

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Speaker 1: separate accounts for ets, for mutual funds, um, they're utilized

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Speaker 1: heavily by by investors across the well the past, you know,

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Speaker 1: et s were kind of um stealing Jack Bogel's lunch,

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Speaker 1: so to speak, because they were passive. Now, okay, Vanguard

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Speaker 1: happens to be one of the top two issuers of ets.

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Speaker 1: But um, But but and mutual funds, you know you

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Speaker 1: could have active management there, which is what kind of

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Speaker 1: separated them. Now you've got actively managed e t f s. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's that's again. I think we're we're um, that's

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Speaker 1: going to be an area of growth. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: flows and ets this year we're on track, probably had

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Speaker 1: the second best flows of overall dollars into et F

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's obviously a very confused market period

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Speaker 1: over thirteen and that it's going into active et S

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Speaker 1: with again a lot of the sponsors just coming in.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's as much about putting new strategies

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Speaker 1: into the marketplace. You mentioned the conversions. I think it's

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Speaker 1: still early days for that. There's um pros and cons

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Speaker 1: to that strategy. Uh, But I think overall, if if

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Speaker 1: a manager has the ability to bring ETPs into the marketplace, um, again,

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Speaker 1: because of the the accessibility and some of the cost

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Speaker 1: and tax advantages in the US market, it's a pretty

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Speaker 1: attractive means for active managers to get some of their

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Speaker 1: best thinking out there. Hey, no, give us a sense

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Speaker 1: of you know, retail versus institutional ownership of e t s,

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Speaker 1: how has it evolved in and how do you think

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Speaker 1: it's going to play out over the next you know,

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Speaker 1: several years. Yeah, it's it's actually remarkably steady. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if if you look at at the market as a

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Speaker 1: whole um, it's tended to be almost fifty fifty, which

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Speaker 1: you know, every time I look at that, I always

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Speaker 1: think God that you know, it's kind of shift at

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Speaker 1: some point. But for new ets, the the adopters are

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Speaker 1: often you know R I A S are are a

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Speaker 1: big player that's facing investment advisors because they have that

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Speaker 1: ability to think about what it's best for their clients

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Speaker 1: for loil and what they want to put in there.

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Speaker 1: And then institutions UM love the ETFs. It's you know,

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Speaker 1: you think it's counterintuitive. A big institution could probably get

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Speaker 1: something for even lower cost or or greater um flexibility,

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Speaker 1: but they love the ETF structure for the same reasons

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Speaker 1: that the retail audience does, which is they can buy

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Speaker 1: as much or as little as they want, they can

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Speaker 1: hold it for as longer as little as they want,

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Speaker 1: and there's not sort of the gating process there to

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Speaker 1: keep them in or out of the marketplace. And so

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Speaker 1: we still see really heavy participation newer issues. Sometimes it

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Speaker 1: takes a little while for an institutional to engage, but

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Speaker 1: that's not always the case. Sometimes you'll have institutions coming

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Speaker 1: right out of the gate because it's a it's an

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Speaker 1: exposure that it's their portfolio needs. Yeah, I mean, costs

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Speaker 1: can't get much lower, right, We're talking just a handful

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Speaker 1: of basis points UM to to own a lot of

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Speaker 1: e t F s. What do you think the um

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Speaker 1: the next wave of issuance is and we we saw conversions.

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Speaker 1: There's an e t F for everything. So we've seen

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Speaker 1: it grow into um different spaces. We've even seen them

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Speaker 1: UM chop up uh you know debt levels. If so,

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Speaker 1: if you want you know, uh C minus debt exposure,

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Speaker 1: you can get that. What's what's on the horizon? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that it would the entrance of of you know,

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Speaker 1: more active managers and certainly you know a aligns Furnstey

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Speaker 1: in the way we're looking at this is UM BTF

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Speaker 1: does let you get very granular if you want to

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Speaker 1: your point, you can you can go really deep in

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Speaker 1: one area or you can look at at broad market teams.

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Speaker 1: And that's pretty important. UM. If you think about, you know,

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Speaker 1: the evolution the most investors in the US, you know,

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Speaker 1: over the span of decades, it's like, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you like the individual security, that's great, but there's

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Speaker 1: risk theirs. So maybe by the industry, if you like industry,

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Speaker 1: by the sector. UM, you just sort of diversify your

387
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Speaker 1: best thinking. And I think we continue to see thematic

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Speaker 1: you know, global thematic trends playing out in portfolios, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's one of the areas of growth that

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Speaker 1: you're going to see where people think about some of

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Speaker 1: these cross sector aspects. We saw over the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years some of the concerns around supply chain and

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Speaker 1: where um, some of the great strength of the global

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Speaker 1: economy stumbled a little bit, and so what companies are

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Speaker 1: set up to take advantage of the fact that there

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Speaker 1: might be a retrench you of some of those systems

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Speaker 1: are a different way of thinking about how to move

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Speaker 1: goods and services around the globe. And I think that

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Speaker 1: type of thematic thinking is going to continue to play out,

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Speaker 1: especially in the in the active ETF space. So in

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Speaker 1: an active et F, I mean Matt was just mentioning

402
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Speaker 1: the low fees, But in an active et F, don't

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Speaker 1: I have to I guess, utilize an active management team,

404
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Speaker 1: and don't I have to pay them? How do I

405
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Speaker 1: keep the cost of Yeah, so I think, yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: I mean the range of costs and in et F

407
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Speaker 1: are you know, it's it's pretty extreme. I mean you

408
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Speaker 1: go from you know, three or four basis points for

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Speaker 1: some of the largest broadest equity index products you know,

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Speaker 1: up into basis points for some active constructs where you've

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Speaker 1: got you know, unique UM, you know i P being

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Speaker 1: brought into play. And and you know what we've seen

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Speaker 1: over time is that, UM, the low cost beta story

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Speaker 1: you know, remains interesting and relevant for for some some

415
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,399
Speaker 1: aspects of the core portfolio. But investors are very much

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Speaker 1: willing to engage at different price points if they feel

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Speaker 1: like from a performance perspective or from a risk perspective,

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Speaker 1: or just trying to attain some goal in the portfolio,

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Speaker 1: whether that's income or some type of you know, a

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Speaker 1: buffer type strategy. UM, they're still willing to pay for it.

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Speaker 1: And we certainly saw that over the last couple of years.

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Speaker 1: UM since you know, since spring of twenty UM price

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Speaker 1: wasn't the only factor. Ye alright, no, great stuff. Appreciate

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Speaker 1: checking in with us. No Archer, Global head of ets

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Speaker 1: at Alliance Bernstein, and those are two of the bluest

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Speaker 1: chip names in asset management, Alliance and Bernstein, and now

427
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 1: they're together and they are in the et F space

428
00:20:53,320 --> 00:21:00,880
Speaker 1: in a big way. All Right, Amazon Matt ten employees

429
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 1: that are laying off. Okay, that's kind of news, but

430
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 1: context they have over one point five million employees, so

431
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: less than one percent, but true. Still the story, the

432
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 1: theme is big tech, who's done nothing but higher for

433
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 1: literally a generation, nothing but in the hiring mode. This

434
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 1: is the first time I can remember. I know that

435
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 1: we had a little bit and obviously the dot com area,

436
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 1: but um that you know, kind of there's a theme there.

437
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 1: They're starting to pair back a little bit. Remember the

438
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 1: fact that the new generation of reporters that comes into

439
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: the studio to talk to us does not remember the

440
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 1: dot com bust. They were born front center, on the

441
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 1: front line. And so yeah, I think the interesting thing

442
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 1: is you're seeing a lot of these companies, especially the

443
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,199
Speaker 1: ones who did big hiring last year, start to do

444
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 1: layoffs beyond Elon Musk just firing half of Twitter. You've

445
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: got Facebook, You've got Microsoft, You've got uh now now Amazon.

446
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: But the thing to me is, um, they usually need

447
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 1: to add employees this time of year. Right, that's amazing.

448
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk cars. You want to do that? Yes? Please?

449
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 1: All right, why don't you bring in Kevin Tynan because

450
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: I think he does that stuff right. Kevin Tynan joins

451
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 1: a senior automotive analysts Bloomberg Intelligence and Kevin let's talk

452
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 1: about UM. Well, first of all, rivan Um putting some

453
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 1: price hikes, uh, putting putting some price hikes out there,

454
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,679
Speaker 1: and they're already expensive enough. I built one, I think

455
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 1: pretty conservatively and already got to dollars. Is that going

456
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: to hit demand? Well? Sure, yeah, I mean but look

457
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: at the stage we're in. You know, if one fifty

458
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: lightnings are transacting above eight tho. Yeah, well I'm saying

459
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: the average, and we get those numbers every month, it's

460
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 1: still well into the eighties on average, but yeah, you

461
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 1: can get them up into six figures UM. And that's

462
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: just the point we're at. And it's even intensifying now

463
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: because of material costs UM. Where to sell something at

464
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: even break even, We're talking about sixty thou plus, so

465
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 1: you're not gonna you know, and there's gonna be very

466
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: few automakers that will sell something unprofitably. Right. This is

467
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 1: what I've been talking about forever UM and now that

468
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,919
Speaker 1: point is just getting higher and higher, which is why

469
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: you're seeing price increases. So, Kevin, here's why this whole

470
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: ev thing is can be a lot bumpier than I

471
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: think the bulls think. I mean, don't you have to

472
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: replace almost every gas station out there with a charging station.

473
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: And some of these trucks require, like, you know, enough

474
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: power to power small talent. There's a Bluemark article out

475
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 1: today with that kind of analysis. Yeah, and and it's interesting.

476
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,360
Speaker 1: I was just in UH speaking with the greater Cincinnati

477
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 1: auto dealers who doesn't do that luncheon last weekend. And

478
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: this is what Kevin does. He goes to speaks to

479
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 1: auto dealers in Cincinnati. That's what you're gonna do. You

480
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: want to cover this business, and you have to talk

481
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: to the dealership owners. Yeah, yeah, and and and we

482
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: had dinner the night before with the UH some Ford

483
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: dealers and one of the things that you know, we've

484
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: heard about Ford requesting from their dealerships and investment of

485
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: a million US dollars to update to be able to

486
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,199
Speaker 1: sell evs um. And was talking to some dealers and

487
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: they were saying, we were fine with all that, changing

488
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 1: the store, new tile, new entryways, charge points. And when

489
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 1: they went to the local utility, they said, yeah, you're

490
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: talking three years before we can get that kind of

491
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: power from the street to your store. So even even

492
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: these dealers who want to go along with Ford sort

493
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 1: of you know, internal combustion side and e V side

494
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: still have to wait because the infrastructure is just not

495
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: there yet. And imagine what it would be, Um, if

496
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 1: we were talking e V or or more as we're

497
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: saying it's gonna be this, is gonna be this. I'm

498
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: not sure we're ready for that. But they're still gonna

499
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 1: I mean, someone who's gonna buy an e V uh today, Um,

500
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: they're still gonna buy it, right, Yeah, they're still gonna

501
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: sell as many. These companies are still gonna sell as

502
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: many as they can make. That's not a constraint. Yeah,

503
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: that the issue is they won't make that many. Uh,

504
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: that's because they don't get the kind of margins that

505
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 1: they'd like to. They still get the margins from the

506
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,479
Speaker 1: big trucks from the six point to leader V eight

507
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: and not from right. Well. So, so the concept we

508
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 1: hear all the time is, oh, when there's price parity

509
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: between internal combustion and e V, the consumer will adopt

510
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: and will That's where the tipping point in EV adoption comes.

511
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: And I'm saying it has nothing to do with price parity,

512
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: has everything to do with profit parity, because the whole

513
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: adoption thing is determined by the automaker, not by the consumer,

514
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: because the automaker is the is the entity that decides

515
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: am I going to build and sell something unprofitably? Probably not?

516
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: Or am I going to sell the profitable thing? And

517
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: that's kind of where we are. So you know, if

518
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: if internal combustion and e V are both thirty five

519
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, well how much how much margin is each

520
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: of those will determine which one gets adopted, because that's

521
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: what the manufacturer is going to market and push and

522
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: and that's what the consumer will end up buying. I

523
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 1: mean you you know, if there if there's a twenty

524
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 1: thousand dollar difference on a thirty thousand and thirty five

525
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 1: dollar vehicle in terms of profitability, well you know, you're

526
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: just not gonna purposely sell things unprofitably for very long.

527
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: What's the deal with riv and kevin Um. The stock

528
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: has been up to one seventy two, it's down to

529
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: thirty three right now, even with the massive rally the

530
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: last couple of days. Are they gonna make it? Yeah?

531
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: I mean, you just it's this push for scale now, right,

532
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: which is interesting because you guys are talking about tech

533
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: companies and that was this sort of veil that everybody

534
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: hit under. We're not an automaker, We're a tech company.

535
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 1: And now that's right, Like that's not Maybe it's such

536
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: a great thing, um, but but at the end of

537
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: the day, the auto industry has if there's one word,

538
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: it's scale. You just need to be able to build

539
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: a lot of things. Margins aren't great. Uh, you need

540
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: to do it all over the world, and you need

541
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: to just keep cranking them out. And these these companies

542
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: that were wildly valued were on this potential or total

543
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: addressable market, not on the reality of where they were

544
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: scales scale wise. Kevin, just real quick, what are you

545
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: driving right now? I actually have the Ionic five from

546
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: Hyundai their e v We get four hour blocks to

547
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: charge them here in Princeton. So I just ran out

548
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: there to UM to update my charging and froze my

549
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: butt off, and I'm thinking, how is this better than

550
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: me sitting in my car while somebody put that vehicle

551
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: that's one that consumers love. Alright, good stuff, Kevin Tyne.

552
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: And he's our auto analysts, quasi tech analysts now covering

553
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: the auto industry from Cold Prince, New Jersey. Here's the story,

554
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: Matt that really got my attention on the Bloomberg terminal.

555
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 1: Today London loses crown of biggest European stock market to Paris.

556
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: I didn't even think that was an issue. I didn't

557
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: even think that was on the table. So I said,

558
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: all right, let's get somebody smarting here to kind of

559
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: tell us how this happened, what it means going forward,

560
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: because I guess this is a Brexit situation ration here

561
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: or fallout from Brexit. So we've found a great guest,

562
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: Marianne Scordell. She is the founder of a Bourgeville consulting

563
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: Actually like that pronunciation solid perfect Mary, and so this again,

564
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: it is just amazing to me. Tell me how this

565
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: came about because we used to think, and I guess

566
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 1: we still do those that along with New York, London

567
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: is like the global financial hub. But I guess this

568
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: is a victim of Brexit. Well, you know, since the

569
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: referendum was voted, which was a few years ago now

570
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: it was in there's been a trend. So for a

571
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: long time people were wondering, or where shall we go

572
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: from London, because in order to operate on the continent,

573
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: you now you have to be on the continent. You

574
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: could do it from London, but you can't do it

575
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: from London anymore. You don't have what they call the

576
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: European passport from London anymore. So the question always was

577
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: where shall we go? Where shall we go? And for

578
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: the last like since a lot of financial services companies

579
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: have opened small offices in continental Europe, sometimes with just

580
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: one person, very small kind of to hedge their beds

581
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: at the beginning, and now they're just beefing them up.

582
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: And that's what's happening. So we still have huge asset classes,

583
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: you know, dominated by London. For example f X right is.

584
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: I don't even know how many trillions of dollars f

585
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: X trades a day in London, but it's giant. How

586
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: big is the stock market, the European stock market trading

587
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: in Paris versus what it is in London, Well, I

588
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: don't know. But the choice of Paris really is to

589
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: have like people in one city to exchange because a

590
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: lot of what happens happens like physically. I know in

591
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: the last two years we were all like not in

592
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: the office, but it's really important to be all in

593
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: the same place, in the same office. So that's one

594
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: of the reasons why you know, people, companies, business managers

595
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: were looking for one location to have everybody. I guess

596
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I'm what I'm really asking is

597
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: where are all the people because um I remember when

598
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if there's still the case, but it

599
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: used to be that you had the trade equity is

600
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: in Osaka, actually physically enter your orders in Osaka. But

601
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: everybody in the equities industry wanted to live in Tokyo.

602
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: So what they would do is, you know, the top

603
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: guys would pick some kid and and send him to

604
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: Osaka and whenever they want to make trazy, just call

605
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: him up. Right, Is this same thing happening? Are the

606
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,959
Speaker 1: important managers still living in uh, you know, Mayfair or

607
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: Chelsea and just calling in their orders to Paris? Sometimes?

608
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: I mean I know people who actually commute, you know,

609
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: with the Eurostar it's about two hours to go from

610
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: London to Paris, maybe three hours door to door, so

611
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: so you know it's a lot of people still have

612
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: the kids at school in London and they go they

613
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: spend the week in Paris. It was the case, to

614
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: be fair before before Brexit, some people did that the

615
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: other way around. Actually, the Flamilies were more on the continents,

616
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: people worked in London and they spend the weekend on

617
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: the continent and the week in London. Now they do

618
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: the other way around. It's not a big deal at all.

619
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: So Mary and you spent a lot of time of

620
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: your professional career in London and no more, no Mura, Barclays.

621
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: When you talk to your clients over there, do they

622
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: feel like that the time of London as a global

623
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: financial hub, that that is in fact in the rear

624
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: view mirror, that's in the past where we've kind of

625
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: lost that position. I think it's not a done deal yet.

626
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: People are still kind of in two minds. It's been

627
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: really progressive since the referendum. So now they are adding people,

628
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: even like banks such as Golden Sacks, Morgan Standing, they're

629
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: adding stuff to their Paris office Paris offices and so

630
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: it's but but it's not a done deal yet. I mean,

631
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: you can't say now Paris is bigger than London in

632
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: terms of being the financial center. It's working progress and

633
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: things can still change a little bit. You know, it's

634
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: not um it was, It's not yet black or white.

635
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: I think we have to bear that in mind. The

636
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: elephant in the room when you're talking about France or

637
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: the same is true. I guess another sort of social

638
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: democracies as tax right and the Wall Street crowd or um,

639
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: you know, the London finance crowd doesn't want to move there,

640
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: um and then find out that all of a sudden

641
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: the Parisian left has brought out the guillotine again. Well,

642
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: I hope they never will do that anyway, but it's

643
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: very true that that's one of the big questions, together

644
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: with the labor law and tax However, the French want

645
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: to refer like the French government has done a big

646
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: marketing pushed towards the financial community, so they for example,

647
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: they come to New York fairly, you know, fairly often

648
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: to meet fund managers to say how Paris has become,

649
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: you as a business friendly in financial services but in

650
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: business overall. And it's true that they're trying to reform,

651
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: but that's very obviously very slow. That's normal. Um. So

652
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: it's it's basically taking time, but hopefully hopefully they'll get there.

653
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: From experience, what I can say is that it's a

654
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: lot easier now than it used to be to access regulators,

655
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: to access even like the government, when you need to

656
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: ask questions they have like they're more open for business

657
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: now than they were maybe ten years ago, and I

658
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: know that from experience doing that for my clients have

659
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: been moving a few hege funds too to continent Continental Europe,

660
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: um Portugal, also Paris. So it's interesting. But is Germany

661
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: an option here? Because when I think of just I

662
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: mean when I was on the south side, might stop

663
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: in Germany was always Frankfort that was a major European

664
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: financial hub. Is that still the case and are they

665
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: trying to get are they successfully taking some of that

666
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: talent from London? So I do a lot of less

667
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: business in Germany. One reason is very simple. I don't

668
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: speak German. I speak a lot of other languages, but

669
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: not German. So you know, usually clients who come to

670
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: me are clients who are more interested in the continents.

671
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: A lot of people are saying that Germany is I'm sorry,

672
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: I maybe it's not true, but they are saying it's

673
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: a bit dull. So that's why, you know, that's why

674
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: traders and salespeople prefer to live in Paris and Germany.

675
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: That maybe one of the reasons. It's deadly, deadly boring

676
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: living in Frankfort and the best Thingstchester I've lived. I've lived.

677
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: I've spent years living in Frankfort and the I mean,

678
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: it's really fantastic to have the airport so close and

679
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: easy to get out of Frankfort. But otherwise there's not

680
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: a lot to do. They're compared to Paris. Dublin was

681
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: also an option that a lot of people were interested in.

682
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: Madrid is one that I think would be great. Um,

683
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 1: you mentioned Portugal. What are some of the alternatives? Where

684
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: else are people looking at? Yeah, there's also Amsterdam. Several

685
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: clients have asked me to enquire about the regulatory regime

686
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: in Amsterdam, and you know, everything around it, because if

687
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: you go somewhere and you live there, it's not just

688
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: wherek it's you know, how how is it going? What

689
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 1: is it going to be like for the schools for kids? Schools?

690
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: They have a lot of international schools in Amsterdam. Everybody

691
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: speaks English as well, which is not necessarily the case

692
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: in Um, for example, in Spain. Right, UM, definitely is

693
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 1: not the case in I know that exactly because you flounder.

694
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: My wife is Spanish and none of her family knows

695
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: how to speak English, and I don't know how. Maybe

696
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: they just don't want to speak to you. That's all right, Maryanne,

697
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate getting

698
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: uh your perspective. You're on a story that I think

699
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: it's just really fascinating. Uh. London Loser's Crown the biggest

700
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: European stock market to Paris. Marianne Scordell found her of

701
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: a Bougeviilt Consulting. I appreciate you being in the Bloomberg

702
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: Interactive Broker's studio. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast.

703
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts

704
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm

705
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Miller. Yet on Fall Sweeney I'm

706
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: on Twitter at pt Sweeney Before the podcast. You can

707
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio