Speaker 1: Tim Britton is a senior writer at The Athletic covering
Speaker 1: the New York Mets. Welcome back to the show, Tim,
Speaker 1: How you doing, And I'll start the way I promised
Speaker 1: everyone else I would start.
Speaker 2: Are the Mets? Okay? They're okay for now.
Speaker 3: I guess it's been a rough almost two months now
Speaker 3: for the Mets.
Speaker 2: So I'm doing better than the Mets right now.
Speaker 3: Personally, probably I'm doing you know, it's the season really
Speaker 3: pivoted for them in the middle of June, and it's
Speaker 3: you know, they seem.
Speaker 2: Like they were right in the ship for a little
Speaker 2: bit there toward.
Speaker 3: The end of July, and then they went in San Diego,
Speaker 3: got swept, came home, got swept, and I lost eight
Speaker 3: of nine now, so it's been just a rough go
Speaker 3: of it for a team that just hasn't shown any
Speaker 3: kind of consistency and it doesn't really look like the
Speaker 3: team they were the first two and a half months
Speaker 3: of the year over the last two months.
Speaker 4: Kam, I'm going to come out hot here and I
Speaker 4: apologize ahead of time, but I'm going to do it anyways.
Speaker 4: Having been in that clubhouse for two years and I
Speaker 4: know how this question it's get brought up quite often,
Speaker 4: but there's been people saying the team has no heart.
Speaker 4: Is there any veracity of this statement or is this
Speaker 4: just a classic We got to ask that question every
Speaker 4: year when things aren't going well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think like that comes up. I
Speaker 3: think more and more when a team struggles offensively the
Speaker 3: way the Mets have. Like if you go out there
Speaker 3: and you lose a game thirteen to eleven, no one
Speaker 3: really questions your heart because you were in it. If
Speaker 3: you lose two to nothing, if you go into a
Speaker 3: ninth inning like they did on Wednesday being no hit
Speaker 3: by Gavin Williams, like then it really looks like you're flat,
Speaker 3: like you're not trying, like you don't have any heart. So,
Speaker 3: you know, having been covering the Mets for a while
Speaker 3: when they've gone through different offensive slumps, that is the
Speaker 3: number one thing that fans bring up. I don't think
Speaker 3: that's an issue. I mean, this is largely the same
Speaker 3: clubhouse that showed a lot of heart in the way
Speaker 3: they came back last season with the final four months
Speaker 3: of the year. You know, Francisco Lindor and Brandon Neimo
Speaker 3: I think have the pulse of that room pretty well
Speaker 3: at this point, you know, Peter A.
Speaker 2: Lonzo is a guy who's been there for a while.
Speaker 2: Jeff mcfeil. These are not guys who kind of roll over.
Speaker 3: When things get tough, at least not anymore the way
Speaker 3: they did maybe back in twenty one went when things
Speaker 3: really went south of them in August. But since then
Speaker 3: they've shown a little bit more resolve in that regard,
Speaker 3: especially last year. So I don't think it's a heart issue.
Speaker 3: I think it's just really no phase of the game
Speaker 3: where they're playing well for six to eight weeks.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: The thing that stands out to me, first of all
Speaker 1: is that the team's pretty healthy, which is always great, right.
Speaker 1: The teams in a good spot compared to most other teams.
Speaker 1: I mean, look at the Atlanta Braves for example, right,
Speaker 1: they're missing their whole rotation, they're missing a lot of bats,
Speaker 1: all that. Right, So with the Mets, I'm wondering, when
Speaker 1: you see a multiple superstar struggle at the same time,
Speaker 1: if there's some approach, some strategy from teams that you're
Speaker 1: seeing frequently. Last year, what stood out to me with
Speaker 1: the Texas Rangers after they won a World Series is
Speaker 1: how teams were beating them with heaters, high heaters, they
Speaker 1: just like couldn't as a team hit them. There might
Speaker 1: have been one or two guys, but for the most
Speaker 1: part that was the mo for the Rangers, and their
Speaker 1: offense fell apart after winning a World Series.
Speaker 2: Are you seeing any trends.
Speaker 1: Like that where team are taking advantage of a weakness
Speaker 1: With the Mets, So, the two.
Speaker 3: Things that stand out one, I think there last I
Speaker 3: checked out a week ago, they were like twenty eighth
Speaker 3: in the league against slaggers. That's a tough pitch to
Speaker 3: struggle against at this level. That's pitch you see an
Speaker 3: awful lot of. And then the other one is against
Speaker 3: left handed pitching. You know, we've seen this kind of
Speaker 3: across the game this year that the right handers have
Speaker 3: not had the kind of success they're used to having
Speaker 3: against left handed pitching. For the Mets, that's really been
Speaker 3: born out with Francisco Lindoor and Pete Alonzo having pretty
Speaker 3: terrible years against lefties. The Mets lefties have been better
Speaker 3: against left handed pitching than the right's have been, and
Speaker 3: so we've seen a lot of you know, the top
Speaker 3: part of the Mets order, which is you know, some
Speaker 3: combination of the door Nimo Soto and Alonso. We're seeing
Speaker 3: a lot of teams go to their lefty reliever to
Speaker 3: handle that part of the order or have a a
Speaker 3: left handed starter go through that a third time through
Speaker 3: the order because they believe that that part of the
Speaker 3: order is more vulnerable to lefties than it should be theoretically.
Speaker 3: So I haven't looked up their exact record against lefties,
Speaker 3: but I know it's significantly worse than the record against righty's,
Speaker 3: so that that's been an area where they've really struggled
Speaker 3: of late, and against the sliders as well, which plays
Speaker 3: it at that.
Speaker 4: At the same time, you mentioned Pete Alonzo, who you know,
Speaker 4: after coming on this one year deal and really putting
Speaker 4: up numbers some of his best months ever in the
Speaker 4: first half, then went into July and had statistically, I think,
Speaker 4: if not the worst year he's ever had the hitting wise,
Speaker 4: but one of the worst months. So in terms of
Speaker 4: him specifically, what and he is struggling with lefties? You
Speaker 4: mentioned that, But what's what specifically is is he do
Speaker 4: we think is happening with him and his bad is
Speaker 4: he between pitches? Is he not seeing something?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 4: What do you see out of Pete?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he said this last week, but kind
Speaker 3: of when he's in a slop the way he was
Speaker 3: in the month of July. You can tell at the
Speaker 3: way he chases pitches down in the way, the slider mainly,
Speaker 3: you know, like he feels better if if his chase
Speaker 3: is up in the zone and he's missing fastballs up,
Speaker 3: he's okay with that. He feels like he's going to
Speaker 3: get to that pitch eventually, he's going to have better
Speaker 3: discernment on it.
Speaker 2: When he's chasing the sliders, that's when he's out of whack.
Speaker 3: And we saw that in July, right, I think the
Speaker 3: ops was like five forty eight or something like that
Speaker 3: the month of July, a far cry from where he
Speaker 3: was in April and May in particular. And so you know,
Speaker 3: like the Mets order iss the entire team is built
Speaker 3: on that top four in the order being as good
Speaker 3: as any in baseball. And while the indoor Alonso and
Speaker 3: Soto have had good individual months, Nimo has been good
Speaker 3: in stretches, there's really been no point this season when
Speaker 3: they've all clicked, and there have been a lot more
Speaker 3: points where none of them have, like like most recently,
Speaker 3: So you know that's the part of the order that's
Speaker 3: supposed carry the team that's supposed to go to overcome
Speaker 3: the weaknesses they have elsewhere on the roster, and it
Speaker 3: just has not worked out that way really at any
Speaker 3: point this season.
Speaker 1: Well it's okay, I mean, you just need a dose
Speaker 1: of medicine over the weekend against Oh wait, it's the
Speaker 1: best record in baseball that they're facing the Milwaukee Brewers,
Speaker 1: right I just keep thinking about the Blue Jays getting
Speaker 1: a little slumpy and then they destroy the Rockies over
Speaker 1: the last several days. The Mets will not have that
Speaker 1: luxury they're in Milwaukee, although good times last time they
Speaker 1: were in Milwaukee with the wild Card game Game three,
Speaker 1: Pie Alonzo, the big home er off Devin Williams, who
Speaker 1: is now a Yankee. Do you think a series like
Speaker 1: this can spark them in a positive end because they're
Speaker 1: going to be playing against the top team right now
Speaker 1: record wise, and just some top level competition. I mean,
Speaker 1: the last couple series they're taking on what the Guardians
Speaker 1: and the Giants both okay teams, but the Brewers are
Speaker 1: the cream of the crop right now.
Speaker 3: I mean, you would sure hope that if it is
Speaker 3: a motivation issue, that they'd be getting up for this series.
Speaker 3: The team they played in the playoffs last year, a
Speaker 3: team that you know, until that playoff series had really
Speaker 3: had their number, especially in Milwaukee, dating back like six
Speaker 3: seven years. I think that's only one one series in
Speaker 3: Milwaukee since twenty seventeen outside of the Wildcard series, So
Speaker 3: that's a place where they really struggled historically. It's a
Speaker 3: team that has given them trouble because of the style
Speaker 3: that it plays. The Mets have been better against opposing
Speaker 3: base Steelers this year than they were last year, but
Speaker 3: that that is an issue for them at times. A
Speaker 3: team that puts the ball in play and challenges their
Speaker 3: defense the way Milwaukee does. So I think this is,
Speaker 3: you know, they need to have to put together good series.
Speaker 3: We saw them, you know, when they were in that
Speaker 3: tough stretch in late June when they lost fourteen of seventeen.
Speaker 3: It was a series win over the Brewers that got
Speaker 3: them out of it. They took two out of three
Speaker 3: at home as well, walk get started July, then took
Speaker 3: two out of three from the Yankees that got them
Speaker 3: back into kind of a better state of play for
Speaker 3: you know, maybe three three and a half weeks until
Speaker 3: they hit this, this most recent skit. But you know
Speaker 3: this is the kind of team. The National League is
Speaker 3: a gauntlet. This is the kind of team. You're going
Speaker 3: to have to play well against it in the final
Speaker 3: two months and then of course into October if you
Speaker 3: want to get back to where they were last year.
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Speaker 4: Well, let's hope they are able to pull some of
Speaker 4: these out and get the flyer the fire lit a
Speaker 4: little bit. Speaking of weird kind of slumpy stuff happening,
Speaker 4: especially in the lineup Wan Soto, who is Biometrics having
Speaker 4: a Won Soto style year. There is one big, glaring
Speaker 4: split that makes no sense to me and I am
Speaker 4: still yet to figure out what's going on, and that
Speaker 4: is his production with the bases empty versus people on base.
Speaker 4: He's has over one thousand ops with bases empty and
Speaker 4: with runners off it's a six fifty, which is something
Speaker 4: that's never showed up for in his career. He is
Speaker 4: actually one of the guys with the bat I think
Speaker 4: maybe the best in the league that doesn't have these
Speaker 4: weird splits. He's pretty much consistently against everybody all the time.
Speaker 4: So that leads me to think that is this an intent?
Speaker 4: Is there something he's trying to do or someone he's
Speaker 4: trying to be in those situations. Have you heard anything
Speaker 4: about mindset or approach with guys on base that is
Speaker 4: different this year than maybe it would have been passed
Speaker 4: for Jan Soto that explained it? And if not, do
Speaker 4: you have any theories?
Speaker 3: You know, I haven't heard anything. No one has said
Speaker 3: anything about him individually in that respect. We've seen this
Speaker 3: has been an issue for the Mets as a unit
Speaker 3: for most of the season in terms of, you know,
Speaker 3: bases empty versus runners in scoring position. The ops is
Speaker 3: fifty or sixty points different that that changed in July.
Speaker 3: The unfortunate thing is it change because they stopped hitting
Speaker 3: with nobody on But you know the we talked about.
Speaker 3: You know, when it starts to become an issue for
Speaker 3: a team, you press a little bit. So I can
Speaker 3: imagine when this shows up as a weird split for
Speaker 3: Sodo through April in his first season with the Mets,
Speaker 3: can imagine him maybe pressing in those spots a little
Speaker 3: bit more. He's not the type of guy who would
Speaker 3: admit that, and I don't think anyone on the Mets
Speaker 3: would admit that on his behalf. But it's funny because
Speaker 3: before the season I was looking at you know who
Speaker 3: had the best debut season as a met in history.
Speaker 3: And you look at like Mike Piazza's numbers in nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety eight. He was incredible for them for the most part.
Speaker 3: But I had remembered watching that season and thinking vaguely
Speaker 3: that he had had a bad year, and it was
Speaker 3: because he had very similar splits to this. It was
Speaker 3: kind of no one on base versus runners in the
Speaker 3: scoring position, so that the thought was like, well, Piazza
Speaker 3: is getting his numbers when no when it doesn't matter,
Speaker 3: and Soda is getting his numbers when it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: He's not coming through in the big spots. You know,
Speaker 3: I think these are the kinds of things that even
Speaker 3: out over time. It is kind of just a weird split.
Speaker 2: For now.
Speaker 3: I'm surprised it has lasted even this long, but I
Speaker 3: know I can imagine it's snowballing just a little bit
Speaker 3: on him. But he's the type of guy who he
Speaker 3: gets out of it a little bit. I think we'll
Speaker 3: start to go in the other direction.
Speaker 1: Tim, Where do you stand on the hitting coach conversation?
Speaker 1: You know, I tend to think that some can make
Speaker 1: a massive difference, others are definitely not as good as
Speaker 1: at their craft right and then most of them are
Speaker 1: in the middle where it depends on personnel, the players
Speaker 1: that you're connecting with, et cetera. This team has a
Speaker 1: lot of superstars. They've been in the league for a while.
Speaker 1: They know what they're doing. But I'm sure there's a
Speaker 1: little heat. New York fans, Mets fans, they want to
Speaker 1: come after someone. And Eric Chavez is the hitting coach.
Speaker 1: He was a great Big leaguer, but he's hitting coach
Speaker 1: with the Mets right now, and that's the one who's
Speaker 1: being asked about. So what is your thought on that topic?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think if you ever want to
Speaker 3: make a change with your hitting coaches, you have to
Speaker 3: know what you want to do instead. You know, I
Speaker 3: go back to the Mets in twenty twenty one, fired
Speaker 3: Chili Davis and Tom Slater's their hitting coaches. I think
Speaker 3: on like May second, as early as any t even
Speaker 3: fired their hitting coaches. They wanted to get more analytical
Speaker 3: and it kind of over you know, brought in Hugh
Speaker 3: Quantalbaum to run things. Sorry Gus, Yeah, q Quatlebum and
Speaker 3: it kind of overwhelmed their hitters for the rest of
Speaker 3: the season. It was difficult for them to make that
Speaker 3: adjustment on the fly, and so you know, bringing in
Speaker 3: a different hitting coach in the middle of the season,
Speaker 3: it's kind of bringing a different catcher. He's got to
Speaker 3: learn everything on the run, and it becomes difficult, you know.
Speaker 2: You see.
Speaker 3: I remember looking at the numbers of how much teams improve,
Speaker 3: and they do a little bit when you fire hitting
Speaker 3: coach bringing someone else, but that's generally explained more by regression.
Speaker 3: So I think if the Mets wanted to make a
Speaker 3: move with with Chavez with Jeremy Barnes, that the co
Speaker 3: hitting coaches, they've both been there for four years. They
Speaker 3: know those hitters pretty well at this point. They bring
Speaker 3: different approaches. Barnes more the analytical and mechanical guy, Chabas
Speaker 3: is more of the experience and mental guy. They work
Speaker 3: with different hitters differently. I think if you wanted to
Speaker 3: make a change there, if you're David Seartz, who I
Speaker 3: don't believe has fired a coach midseason in his tenure
Speaker 3: as a as a general manager or a president of
Speaker 3: baseball operations, then you've got to know this is the
Speaker 3: guy I'm bringing in, or these are the guys I'm
Speaker 3: bringing in this is what we're going to do differently.
Speaker 3: You've got to have a really set plan rather than
Speaker 3: just firing someone to fire someone.
Speaker 4: Having been in that clubhouse when Hugh came on, confusion
Speaker 4: is the correct word, I can confirm that is definitely
Speaker 4: what was happening. So big picture, we're looking at a
Speaker 4: positive trends. We want to turn things around. We want
Speaker 4: the team to put themselves in better positions to score
Speaker 4: the more runs and win. What are a couple things
Speaker 4: you would like to see as the lineup kind of
Speaker 4: unveils through a game that maybe even if the results
Speaker 4: aren't quite there, we're seeing better at bats. What types
Speaker 4: of things would you look for to see that trend
Speaker 4: maybe moving in the better directions some early sides.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think they've got to stop having
Speaker 3: these like three four five inning or as I did earlier,
Speaker 3: fourteen inning stretches where they're going hitless.
Speaker 2: You know, they're having too many one.
Speaker 3: To two three innings against opposing staffs, so getting guys
Speaker 3: on base, just creating the opportunities that they were creating
Speaker 3: in April, May and the first half of June.
Speaker 2: And then you know, coming through.
Speaker 3: With runner and scoring position and the way they weren't
Speaker 3: at that point, and they started doing in July, just
Speaker 3: with fewer opportunities. So I think kind of meshing those
Speaker 3: two aspects, hitting with nobody on hitting with runners on
Speaker 3: the way we've talked about, and then I do think
Speaker 3: like we focused a lot on the offense, like the
Speaker 3: starting pitching staff has to lead the way as well.
Speaker 3: That they were first in rotation era in the National
Speaker 3: League through June twelfth, I think June thirteenth is kind
Speaker 3: of win. This shifted for them when they blew a
Speaker 3: five run lead and lost to the Rays, and since
Speaker 3: then they're twenty ninth in Baseball in rotation era. So
Speaker 3: it's been a real shift for them. The whole staff,
Speaker 3: the ra has been worse, but you know, leading from
Speaker 3: the rotation guys kind of beyond David Peterson and now
Speaker 3: Sean ma and I is back pitching into the sixth
Speaker 3: inning and beyond code single looking like you did earlier
Speaker 3: in the season, could help to the point where it's
Speaker 3: not a two nothing game in the sixth inning every night,
Speaker 3: or whether they need to score, you know, seven runs
Speaker 3: to win a game. I think, you know, having it
Speaker 3: started to go out there and win, you a game
Speaker 3: the way like Gavin Williams did against them on Wednesday,
Speaker 3: could help start them in the other direction.
Speaker 2: Get that rock moving, gut.
Speaker 1: Away, I'll stay on the rotation. A guy that our
Speaker 1: show has had consensus on over the past couple of years,
Speaker 1: and you know, this is what we do on shows.
Speaker 1: Frankie Montas AJ will put it more bluntly usually than
Speaker 1: I will. How is this guy getting contracts like this?
Speaker 1: And he signed for two years thirty four mil. There's
Speaker 1: certain pitchers in the off season where you're like, man,
Speaker 1: this guy can't find a home and it's two years
Speaker 1: thirty four mil. I think with the player option for
Speaker 1: next year, so he could opt out if he was
Speaker 1: really good. He's not opting out, news flash. But what's
Speaker 1: going on with Frankie Montas?
Speaker 2: What's the plan with him?
Speaker 1: And has the organization talked about you know what they're
Speaker 1: seeing you know from him now that is leading to
Speaker 1: the struggles. What they liked about him, that led to
Speaker 1: the signing of the offseason of course that had a
Speaker 1: lot of injury issues. That was the case this year.
Speaker 1: He comes back, but he's not pitching well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so in the off season they like this.
Speaker 3: You know, they liked his stuff. They thought, like what
Speaker 3: he did over the final two months with Milwaukee last year,
Speaker 3: when he brought his velocity back up, was kind of
Speaker 3: you know, him coming off of the shoulder injury that
Speaker 3: he had with the Yankees. This was the kind of
Speaker 3: the in between year he needed, and he was going
Speaker 3: to take off the following season. That's why they made
Speaker 3: the gamble on him with the two year deal including
Speaker 3: the player option for the salary that they did, which
Speaker 3: I did do think surprise a lot of people in
Speaker 3: the industry.
Speaker 2: What's been off really?
Speaker 3: You know, he had the injury in spring training, didn't
Speaker 3: didn't come back into the rotation until June. While he
Speaker 3: was even on his rehab assignment, he was getting hit hard,
Speaker 3: you know, and it's been like a mechanical issue that
Speaker 3: he's been working through for most of that time, just
Speaker 3: to be more repeatable and to put the ball where
Speaker 3: he wants to. It doesn't matter how good your stuff
Speaker 3: is if you can't put it where you want to
Speaker 3: enough of the time. And that's been carried over for
Speaker 3: a while. So they've talked about, you know, maybe using
Speaker 3: an opener in front of him. You know, Paul Blackburn
Speaker 3: is about ready to come back from his own injury,
Speaker 3: he would be another option. Most Mets fans roll their
Speaker 3: eyes at that possibility and look more longingly at Triple A,
Speaker 3: where you've got Brandon sprot and Nolan McClain, two of
Speaker 3: their best pitching prospects who appear just about ready to
Speaker 3: come to the big league level. Sproad after tough for
Speaker 3: a couple of months is really good of late. McLain's
Speaker 3: been pretty consistent. Also, Lung David Seartz's has been open
Speaker 3: to that idea throughout this season. So it would not
Speaker 3: surprise me if we saw one of those two before
Speaker 3: long in the major leagues. But you know, Montas, I
Speaker 3: think is probably pitching for his spot in the rotation,
Speaker 3: the next starter or two here where you know the
Speaker 3: team needs needs him to pitch well that they're not
Speaker 3: in such a good spot in the standings anymore, but
Speaker 3: they can afford the luxury of letting their fifth starter
Speaker 3: go out there and wear it every fifth day. They
Speaker 3: need something out of that spot, They need it soon.
Speaker 1: That's why it's crazy to me, because if you can't
Speaker 1: kick it as a starter, I don't know if he's
Speaker 1: the reliever type. And then if that's not the case,
Speaker 1: still on THEO for another season. I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: you can fantom i elum, but you know, Met's got
Speaker 1: a little punishment for that in the past, so we'll see.
Speaker 1: That's why I'm following this one closely, Tim, We'll keep
Speaker 1: an eye on it. Last one here real quick on that, Like,
Speaker 1: if it doesn't work out for him in the rotation,
Speaker 1: I mean, they can't really do much with him. I
Speaker 1: don't think you can option him without his permission, right,
Speaker 1: so they would have to put him on waivers.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, I mean, like the options would go,
Speaker 3: you send them to the bullpen, which is something they
Speaker 3: were contemplating when his rehab assignment was going as poorly
Speaker 3: as it was before they had some injuries in their
Speaker 3: rotation that opened up a spot for him. You can
Speaker 3: send to the bullpen as kind of the eighth guy
Speaker 3: there and the long guy that would push you know, well,
Speaker 3: Blackburn is kind of the guy who's slated for that
Speaker 3: role when he does come back, but they can move
Speaker 3: on from him as well. He has not pitched well
Speaker 3: this year either. If you decided that, you know, you
Speaker 3: don't have room from on the major league roster yet.
Speaker 3: It's exposing him to waivers, it's de feing him, potentially
Speaker 3: releasing him and eating what's left on that contract, including
Speaker 3: next year. So that that would be a costly move
Speaker 3: to make, but one that you know, the Bets could
Speaker 3: afford in a way that most other teams cannot, and
Speaker 3: that is one of the luxuries they have.
Speaker 1: Still, that's true, and hey, David Searns has hit on
Speaker 1: a lot of those types of projects. You are not
Speaker 1: going to hit on all of them, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: he really nailed it last year. They're not all going
Speaker 1: to work out, So we'll see what happens with Frankie.
Speaker 2: Tim. This was awesome.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for catching up with us, Have
Speaker 1: a great weekend, enjoy the series out there and we'll
Speaker 1: catch you soon.
Speaker 2: Hell YouTube, thanks for having me on.