1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: M Hey everybody, it's me Josh and for this week's 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: s Y s K Selects, I've chosen January two thousand 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: ten episode called How Organ Donation Works. We get into 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: the ins and outs of organ donation, that what you 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: can do and what you can't, and we also talk 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: about the black market for organs um, which is something 7 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: that's been in the news recently. There has been a 8 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: huge Reuters expose on the secondary organ donation market for 9 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: profit market, which is worth reading too, especially if this 10 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: episode floats your boat. So I hope you enjoy How 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: Organ Donation Works. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from 12 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 13 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Lark with me as always as Charles W. 14 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant, who I assume has two functional kidneys. I do, 15 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: but I would give one up for you, brother. Wow, 16 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: would you really? Maybe? I think I think that three 17 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: Chuck as a living donor maybe not? But if I died, 18 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: then sure you get thanks. Man. What about your liver, 19 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: because I'm pretty certain I'm gonna need somebody's livers. I 20 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: don't know that you would want mine either, to be honest. 21 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that'd be like getting Mickey Mantle's liver. I 22 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: need like a we need a virginal liver, don't. Yeah, 23 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: so I can just start over again, wash it in vodka. 24 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: So what are we talking about, Josh? We're talking about 25 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: organ donation, Chuck perfect, which I find absolutely fascinating. UM. 26 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: Back in nineteen fifty four, let me take you back 27 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: a little bit here, the first successful living human to 28 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: human organ donation took place. It was a kidney. Yeah, 29 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: it was a great story. Kidneys actually remained the most 30 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: commonly donated and UM received organs. But this was actually 31 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: a couple of twin brothers, one of whom was dying 32 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: of chronic nephritis. Yeah, Richard and Ronald Herrick. And Richard 33 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: was the one dying, and Ronald was in good shape, right, 34 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: and Ronald said, well, you know what, you're my twin brother, 35 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: and I don't really want you to die young, so 36 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you one of my kidneys. And UM. 37 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: There have been uh some other transplants before that. They 38 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: didn't work out though, well some of them did, but 39 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: it wasn't live human to human UM like for example, 40 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:41,119 Speaker 1: the first I think the first organ, the first donation 41 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: or transplant that ever took place was way back in 42 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: sixteen sixty where they fused part of a dog's skull 43 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: under human's head and that graft worked. H We have 44 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: taken testicles from monkeys and successfully in playing them into humans. 45 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: A pig kidney was successfully transplanted into a human vein transplants, uh, 46 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 1: And a lamb kidney was put into a recipient in 47 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty three and that person lived for nine days. 48 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: But nineteen fifty four finds the first time a living 49 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: person donated an oregan to another living person, and it 50 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: was successful. And the reason why, they think was because 51 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: they're twins, there was a very low chance of rejection, right. Yeah. 52 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: And the story is great because Richard, you know that 53 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: the dying brother had a moment, a clear moment where 54 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: he literally, like the day before, said don't do this. Man, 55 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: get out of here right now. And the brother said, no, 56 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you my kidney like it or not, chump, 57 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: and he did. And it was a great story. Yeah, 58 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: And they actually both lived to ripe old ages reproduced, 59 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: so they fulfilled their destinies humans. And since then, Josh, 60 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: there have been more than a half a million of 61 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: these organ transplants performed. Right, We've gotten a lot better 62 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: at it. Um. As I was rambling off that list 63 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: of stuff that took place before nineteen fifty four, we 64 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: have and exponentially better. Uh. In two thousand three, we 65 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: successfully transplanted a tongue. Yeah, I saw that, which I 66 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: could use a tongue transplant. A slightly thinner tongue would 67 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: would do me a lot better. I think you had 68 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: a fat tongue. Yeah. And do you remember the um, 69 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: what do we do the face transplant? Huh um. That 70 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: woman actually remember she got her face from a suicide victim. 71 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: That was in two thousand five and in two thousand six, 72 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: so I know it's coming. A cadaver's penis was transplanted 73 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: onto a living humane and that man gave it back. Yes, 74 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: and I love The reason they gave was because of uh. 75 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: It caused psychological problems between the man and his wife, 76 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: which I can imagine. Let your imagination running with that one. Yeah, yeah, 77 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: that's just uh. I would say the same thing would 78 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: happen to my household. So thanks to m A better 79 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: understanding of how the human body works of blood type, 80 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: of the development of anti rejection drugs like Chuck said, 81 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: we've hit about half a million transplant surgery so far. Right, 82 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: So Chuck actually is hot and heavy, uh to to 83 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: give out a stat and this is a very special 84 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: stat because it's actually most likely going to change by 85 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: the end of the podcast. Yes, these are taking away. 86 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: These are current stats. If you go to the website 87 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: u n O s dot org, the United Network for 88 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: organ Sharing, they actually have up to the minute statistics 89 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: on who needs what and who's giving what and what 90 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: operations are being performed. And I didn't realize this, but 91 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: it's up to the minute because earlier in the day 92 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: I checked on kidneys and the number actually dropped by 93 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: three about an hour later on the waiting list, So 94 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: three people got kidneys in that like half hour span. 95 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna read a couple now and then 96 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: we'll check back in for fun in twenty minutes and 97 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: see if that's changed at all. Okay, I'm gonna write 98 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: this down to Chuck because we'll never remember it. This 99 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: is the first time we've ever used a laptop in 100 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: the studio and a pen usually just us in our mouths. Uh. Total, Josh, 101 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: we got one five hundred and five thousand, two people 102 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: are waiting for organs, and we'll do kidney because that's 103 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: the most popular. Eight three thousand and twelve people are 104 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: waiting for a kidney as of two oh three pm. 105 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: All right, and we'll check that in twenty minutes and 106 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: hopefully those numbers have gone down. Yeah, because that will 107 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: mean that either the people on the waiting list have 108 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: died or they received a transplant. I guess we could 109 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: put those two, we could compare against one another, and 110 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: maker we could surmise for So, Chuck, what are organs? Yeah? 111 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: I had a feeling you're going to ask me that, Josh, 112 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: go ahead, No, okay. Organs are systems of cells, Josh 113 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: and tissues, and they all are in our body for 114 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: a very specific reason, each one. And what I like 115 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: about the organs is that they are all over equipped, 116 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: which is what you're looking for in an organ. You 117 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: don't want like the heart to be like boy, if 118 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: it beats one beat less, you're really screwed. So um 119 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: our art. Actually, a twenty year old's heart beats pumps 120 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: about ten times more than the amount of blood we need. 121 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: And uh, we we have this reserve capacity in all 122 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: of our organs. As young lads and lasses. Right. But 123 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: as Tom Chief, who you know as my bff who 124 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: wrote this article, he points out that the corneas, when 125 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: you talk about eye transplants, they're talking about corneal transplants. Um, 126 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: they actually don't necessarily deteriorate like all the other organs. Yeah, 127 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: that's pretty cool. Um, So the corneas of seventy five 128 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: year old donor are just as good, considering you know, 129 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: there's not more wear and tear than say a twenty 130 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: year old. Yeah, you could put a seventy year old 131 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: person's cornea inside of a young person and there would 132 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: be no difference. Right. But for organs, they deteriorate with age. 133 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: Well that's the bad news, right, Um, so eventually you 134 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: may need one, right, Well, yeah, because what happens is, 135 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: let's say one organ can deteriorate while the rest of 136 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: your body remains pretty healthy. That's actually best case scenario, 137 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: as weird as that sounds, because that means you can 138 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: just swap that sucker out and you'll be fine again. Right. Well, 139 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: that that's in a very ideal utopian world. That's exactly 140 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: what happens. The problem is, there is a lot more 141 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: people in need of organs than there are organs available 142 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: right right, there's um a waiting list. Some aren't so bad. 143 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: I think kidneys go pretty quick, as you're you're talking 144 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: about earlier. The longest wait I found, um was the 145 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: old heart lung combo. That median wait time was six 146 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: point seven years. It's a long time to wait for 147 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: a heart and a long if you need it. Yeah, 148 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: a long time because nobody goes I'm probably gonna need 149 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: a heart and a long combo. Eventually, I'll just put 150 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: myself on the waiting list. Now you need it, like 151 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: the moment you go onto that waiting list and you 152 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: have to wait six point seven years until you get it, right, Yeah, 153 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: and that's why. Um, the mortality rate while waiting for 154 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: a heart, which is that's not as bad as I 155 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: would I would be, like the lungs are, and um, 156 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: the ever actually is the worst good Yeah, sorry, um. 157 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: There's two ways you can get organs from a live 158 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: person or a dead person. Yes, Traditionally we don't take 159 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: organs like the heart from a live donor because they 160 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: would be a dead donor. After that, you can take 161 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: things like uh, the liver pancreas uncommonly, but it can 162 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: be done a portion of the intestine, um, blood, blood, 163 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: stem cells, bone, marrow, bones, all and bones. Yeah, which 164 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: giving up a bone that's really something like, I mean 165 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: after that, you just kind of have this floppy arm, 166 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 1: but somebody else has a bone, you know, I mean, 167 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: that's pretty nice. You Know. What I thought was interesting 168 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: about the kidney deal, like why you can give up 169 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: one kidney and still be okay, is that most of 170 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 1: the times when your kidneys are affected, they are both 171 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: affected at the same time, so it's one's never gonna 172 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: go down and you'd be like, oh, I wish I 173 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: still have my healthy kidney because they both would have 174 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: been unhealthy. And uh, all right, I think we've arrived 175 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: at the liver Chuck. This is fascinating to me. It 176 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: is where where should we start? Well, let's just start 177 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: by saying that the liver can grow. It's like the 178 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: starfish of oregans. Yeah, it can regenerate itself, which is 179 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: just freaking amazing. Sure. Um, So, for instance, let's say 180 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: you wanted to split your liver in half and transplant 181 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: that into two different people. You could do that. You 182 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: could and actually, if you're an adult donor, they can 183 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: cut off a portion, a child sized portion, UH, which 184 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: is I think the same as like a child sized 185 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: meal where you get like three chicken nuggets from UH 186 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: and give it to a kid and chuck, this is 187 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: so great. It grows along with the kid right to 188 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: a full size liver once again, but in step with 189 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: the kid's maturation. Right, that's just mind boggling. Let's say 190 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: you needed a piece of your liver. Let's say you 191 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: needed liver replace and I cut half of my liver 192 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: off and gave it to you. My liver would eventually 193 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: grow to full size once again. Yeah, if I live 194 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: that long, so mine would grow and yours would grow. 195 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: And the cool thing is with the liver, you don't 196 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: even have to take out the old liver. You can 197 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: just put in the new one. It's like the best 198 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: organ on the planet. It really is, and our favorite 199 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: organ because of the function that it serves. So Chuck, 200 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: Like I said, you can neither be a dead donor 201 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: or a living donor. A dead donor can donate anything, right, 202 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: including your yeah, and your eyes, um, heart, lung, all 203 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: that stuff that you can't really take from a living donor. Um. 204 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: But there are some exceptions. If you have HIV or 205 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: disease causing bacteria in your blood stream or tissue. They're 206 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,719 Speaker 1: not going to be taking your organs. Um, And if 207 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: you are a practitioner of the Shinto religion, there's not 208 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of organ donation going on there either, right. Yeah, 209 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: not only that, but if you are Amish, they might 210 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: support your donation if there is a certainty relative certainty 211 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: of success, but they're more reluctant if it's uh less 212 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: probable of success. Right. And Tom actually mentioned why the 213 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: Gypsies don't agree with the organ donation. They believe that, um, 214 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 1: you need your body for the first year to get 215 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: around the afterlife. Apparently after that you got it down 216 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: pat and you don't really need it any longer. Um. 217 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: But he didn't mention Shinto, but I looked it up. Uh. 218 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: They believe that the corps is impure. The body becomes 219 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: impure after death. So would be like, here, take this 220 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: rotting piece of flesh that will save your life, but 221 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 1: you're going to be impure while you live. Interesting, So, 222 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: as a result in Japan, uh doing donation rates are 223 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: like really really low like the USA. Yeah, and Jehovah's 224 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: witnessed we should cover them because we're we always like 225 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: to talk about them. Uh, they're not opposed to it, 226 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: but they have one rule which I thought was interesting. 227 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: You can donate your organ as long as they drain 228 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 1: all of the blood out of the organ first before 229 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: giving to someone else. So I guess we're not big 230 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: on translusions. I don't think so, that'd be my guess. Yeah, okay, Um, 231 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: how do you register Chuck? Well, it's pretty easy. Actually 232 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: in most states, you can do it at the d 233 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: m V, which I always found interesting. Yeah, you can 234 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: do it right with there when you're getting your new 235 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: driver's license. And uh here in Georgia, actually we used 236 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: to have the one of the highest donor rates, or 237 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: I should say one of the most expansive donor registries 238 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: in the country. And the reason was when you went 239 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: to go get your driver's licenses. I'm sure you remember, Um, 240 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 1: they'd knock seven bucks off of your driver's license. I 241 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: love that. So you were an idiot if you didn't 242 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: sign up. The problem is that there's not supposed to 243 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: be any kind of compensation whatsoever for being even though 244 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: this was legal under state law. Um. The Georgia Organ 245 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: Procurement organization, which we'll talk about a minute. Um, they 246 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: were very hesitant to draw from the Georgia donor list 247 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: because they weren't sure if the person was just looking 248 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: for the seven bucks off or else if they really 249 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: wanted to be an organ donor. So actually, the contribution 250 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: rates were very low in comparison of the size of 251 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: the registry in Georgia until two thousand five when they stopped. 252 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: They stopped it, I think to actually give you a 253 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: T shirt too that says I sold my lungs for 254 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: seven dollars. That's illegal, and all I got was this 255 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: lousy T shirt. Yeah. No, under UM law, you can't 256 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: have any valuable compensation for organ procurement, right what we'll 257 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: get to that too, the whole black market deal. Okay, 258 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: So Chuck, if you're a dead donor, how do you donate? 259 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: There's two ways, right? Uh? Two ways, sure, two ways 260 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: of death. Brain death and cardiac death. Is that what 261 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: you mean? Obviously? Cardiac death is um a little trickier 262 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: because you only have a certain amount of time to 263 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: get the organs from the body. Brain deaths a lot 264 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: easier in one sense, because um, there could be is 265 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: you know, weeks to find a match and to prepare 266 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: the organ for donation and get it carried out. But 267 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: there's a wrinkle there. So there's a lot of wrinkles there. 268 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: Let me let me say something about cardiac death first, right, 269 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: Um this there are there are no laws really governing 270 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: organ procurement. It's not a case by case basis, And 271 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: basically everybody involved in the organ procurement process does their 272 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: best to walk a very cautious line while harvesting organs 273 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: to try to save other lives, right, yeah, because there's 274 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: families involved grieving obviously. Um. With cardiac death, there was 275 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: a board I think out of Harvard in the late 276 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: nineties that established a five minute wait time from the 277 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: cessation of a heartbeat. Right, so, you you take somebody 278 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: off a life support, wait for the heart to stop beating. 279 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: Five minutes after and while this this the heart's winding down, 280 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: you're prepping the patient for surgery. Five minutes after, Uh, 281 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: somebody pronounces the person dead and they cut them open 282 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: and take the organs. But in five minutes the heart 283 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: is useless pretty much at that point. Some of the 284 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: other organs, like the liver, the kidneys, maybe the lungs 285 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: can survive that five minutes, but the heart's gone. So 286 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: if you have a cardiac death, you have a useless heart, 287 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: even though the heart might have been perfectly healthy. Five 288 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: minutes again right, So there was this doctor in Colorado 289 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: that said, you know what, there's no law whatsoever that 290 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: says I have to wait five minutes. This guy did 291 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: a lot of research and found in the medical literature 292 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: the longest duration between the cessation of a heartbeat and 293 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: the spontaneous regeneration of a heartbeat ever recorded was sixty 294 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: five seconds. So he started a sixty five second rule, 295 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: got the pants suit off of them. It was an 296 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: unsuccessful lawsuit, and now all of a sudden, the president 297 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: has been set and now there's a sixty second rule 298 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: out there that some people adhere to. That is how 299 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: organ procurement has been established in the US. Somebody pushes 300 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: the envelope, they get sued. They if the cases uh 301 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: isn't one by the by the plaintiff, then you have 302 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: a new rule. Isn't that weird? There's like zero guidance 303 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: for organ procurement except that the person has to be dead. 304 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: We don't have any real definition for death. Well, that's 305 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: where brain death gets really really true. Exactly. Take it, Chuck, Well, 306 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, you're the you're the expert here. 307 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: I don't. I can't weigh in morally because I don't 308 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: know what I think. Really Nah. I mean, I know 309 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: what I might believe for myself, but I don't know 310 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 1: about establishing guidelines for others. But we need them, though, 311 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: don't we? Yeah? But I don't want to make up 312 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: those rules, do you know? And apparently the federal government 313 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: doesn't either. Um. Every once in a while, I think 314 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: Carter assigned a panel to create a white paper on this, 315 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: and I guess George Bush did right before he left office, 316 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 1: because there was one that came out in two thousand 317 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: and eight. Either Bush did right before he left office 318 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: or it was like the first thing Obama did when 319 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: he came into office. But there was a very recent 320 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: white paper that came out that said, Okay, here's how 321 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: we feel about brain death. Right, here's the problem. Back 322 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: in the fifties, I think we came up with this 323 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,479 Speaker 1: thing called the ventilator. And with the ventilator, you can 324 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: keep somebody who for all intents and purposes dead, you 325 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 1: can keep their organs functioning. So you're masking death. We 326 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: have no idea what would happen if that ventilator wasn't there, 327 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 1: would the person die? And if the person does die, 328 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 1: how long do we have to wait until we say 329 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: that that person is dead? Right? So the the ventilator 330 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: made it so we could procure organs more easily in 331 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: brain death because we can keep them alive. At the 332 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: same time, it blurred the line between life and death. Well, 333 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: now they came out with this recommendation that said brain 334 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: death is disengagement of no the um end of meaningful 335 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: engagement with the rest of the world, which really widened 336 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: the scope of who exactly is dead. And so when 337 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: you have a brain dead patient and you procure their organs, 338 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: what what you actually do is you have to run 339 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,719 Speaker 1: them through this battery of tests where you are um 340 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: shining lights in their pupils. Uh, there's an ice water 341 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: injection into the ear canal to see if you move 342 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 1: toward or away from the stimulus um And there's this 343 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 1: battery of tests to establish brain death. And then here's 344 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: the clincher. They do an apneus test where they take 345 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: you off the ventilator for two minutes and see what happens, 346 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: and see what happens. Inevitably, the um, the heartbeat is 347 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: going to slow down. And then after two minutes they 348 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: put the ventilator back on. But that two minutes where 349 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: your brain was starved of oxygen was enough to to 350 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: create real brain death if you weren't before. Wow, think 351 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 1: about that. This is why they call you supplementary research man. Right, 352 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: that's why that's your superhero. Can you hear like people 353 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: fast forwarding through to get through this, partners, It's like Josh, Josh, Josh, Josh. Okay, 354 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: So we have this, we have this new definition of 355 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:17,959 Speaker 1: brain death. And when the second apnea test happens and 356 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: you're declared brain dead, what they anesthetize you, they inject 357 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: you with anti paralytics. Will you into that hospital room 358 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 1: and they harvest your organs, so you actually die from 359 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: a lack of organs present in your body. So that's 360 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: that it's a ghoulish matter. And this these people who 361 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: are in charge of making sure that people donate and 362 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 1: keeping the image of organ donation is a gift of 363 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: life alive, have to battle with this, the fact that 364 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: it's a very ghoulish process. So who's who's in charge 365 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: of this stuff, by the way, for what for that 366 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: whole soap op spiel anytime, buddy, Yes, Josh. That would 367 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: be called an O p O, which is an organ 368 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: procurement organization and they are federally designated nonprofits and they 369 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: are local all over the country. There's usually UM one 370 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: in the central location of a state and then different 371 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: satellite office is obviously because you need to be close by. 372 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: You know, you can't be hopping all over the country 373 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: to get these organs, although that happens as well. And 374 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: they basically responsible for awareness, recruitment, evaluation, UM organ removal, 375 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: and transportation. So they're the people that's standing there with 376 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: a cooler waiting to drop your organ in there and 377 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: rush it to the recipient. They're also the people that 378 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: talk to the family generally. Well. Sure, so anytime somebody dies, 379 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: you the hospital is legally obligated to notify the organ 380 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: procurement organization, right and you know this this is a 381 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 1: good point to bring this up. If you want to 382 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: be an organ downer or if you are, you really 383 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: need to tell your family the stuff, and you should 384 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: have it all in your living will because things can 385 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 1: get a little ugly. UM for instance, let's say you 386 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: are from a very strict religious background. Maybe your family 387 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: doesn't want you cut up. They think that would be 388 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: a bad thing, but you want it. You gotta have that, 389 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: you know, in paper on paper, in writing, right, you 390 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: need and if you have a documented um in a 391 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: lot of cases, even if you if your family is like, no, 392 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,719 Speaker 1: we don't want to donate the organs, the organ per 393 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: human organization will say, you know what, ts sorry, he 394 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: want he or she wanted to be an organ owner. 395 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: And the last thing you want after you die is 396 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: for your spouse, let's say, to have to mountain this 397 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: campaign against your family like a tug of war like that. 398 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: You gotta have it all spelled out nice. Um. So 399 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: where are we? The United Network of organ Sharing that's 400 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: another group. This is where that's where you got the 401 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: kidney statistics. We're gonna go back on and look at right. Yeah, 402 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: they're in Richmond, Virginia, and they are responsible for placing 403 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: donated organs um and maintaining the waiting list like you 404 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: just said. And they never close No. Seven three sixty five, 405 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: which is how it should be. Obviously, we should calling 406 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: them right now to see if they're open now. Let's 407 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: not do that. I'm sure they're open. And then Chuck, 408 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: there's the Scientific Registry of Transplant Recipients, right, Yes, the 409 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: s R t R. And they basically maintain like every 410 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: amount of data you could possibly want on transplants, right 411 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: for like policy makers and doctors and drug makers and 412 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Yes, And there was one more 413 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: called the ORGANS sorry, the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network, 414 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: and they're they're just another network that matches people with 415 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 1: recipients and has waiting list that kind of thing, right, 416 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: So this is actually a pretty um lean, mean streamlined machine. Yeah, 417 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: the Procurement and Donation Network. It has to be right, So, Chuck, 418 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: you were saying like they can't be hopping all over 419 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: the country, but they have to sometimes. So what happens 420 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: with like, let's say somebody dies in Sacramento and they 421 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: have the perfect heart that somebody in Tampa needs. What 422 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: happens while they will put it into a cooler and 423 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: fly to uh what was the destination? Tampa? Tampa? They 424 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: fly to Tampa. Apparently like the hospital in Tampa. Those 425 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: people will go fly to Sacramento, take possession of it, 426 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: and then fly it back unless there's somebody in the like, like, 427 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: let's say somebody in Sacramento needed it and somebody at 428 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: the Sacramento General Hospital died. That's when that cooler comes in. 429 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: Which have you seen the one that's at the office. 430 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: We have an organ transplant cooler. Yeah, it's pretty cool, 431 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: roxane keeper tab in its. Uh. You know what I 432 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: thought was really cool is if you were on the 433 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: organ donation list as a living donor, you are actually 434 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: given consideration if you need an organ transplant yourself. And 435 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: they said that they won't like bump you to the 436 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: top of the list, but they will give that a 437 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: little bit of extra weight, which I think is that's 438 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: only right. Did you also see that? Um, if you 439 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 1: are a living donor and you usually your insurance company 440 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: won't raise your rates after that, but move to another 441 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: insurer change like plans, they'll hit you with a pre 442 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 1: existing condition. That's how evil. Seriously you sign up for listening, 443 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: I will give someone my kidney as a living human 444 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: and the insurance companies are like, oh, well, you might 445 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: have to charge a little extra for that. Don't you 446 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: think we should start publicly executing CEOs of insurance companies? 447 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: It should be part of the healthcare reform package. Right, 448 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: of course we don't mean that, right, Thanks for the 449 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: Ceoh so chuck. When when you're talking about people running 450 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: around with coolers and all that, it kind of creates 451 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: this harried pace right in your mind. Um, and that's 452 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: very much true. You have a very short amount of 453 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: time for an organ to survive. Remember I said, like 454 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: even five minutes can kill a heart once it's deprived 455 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: of oxygen, which it stops beating, right. Um. What happens 456 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 1: when you die too, The body undergoes all these huge changes. Um. 457 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: That happened almost immediately, Like, um, there's this uh, parasympathetic 458 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: flow of chemicals right um, which is like kind of 459 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: fight or flight on steroids. So I guess it's a 460 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: sympathetic flood. Like dopamine levels increase eight hundred percent, epinephrin 461 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: levels increase, nor EEF levels increase. So all these chemicals 462 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: that are meant to like either speed you up or 463 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: slow you down or just flooding fro the body. That's 464 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: why you have to take the drugs right most times, Well, no, 465 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: this is when you die. So when they're trying to 466 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: harvest these organs, they're like trying to get them out 467 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: of the body before this flood just damages these things 468 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: I thought you meant as a recipient that would happen. No, 469 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: that'd be pretty awesome though, to have your dopamine levels 470 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: raised eight percent, right, But it's not as easy as 471 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: just throwing the new heart in there either and sewing 472 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: you up and say good luck with your life. No, no, 473 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: it's not you. And uh, there's also some expectation that 474 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: you lead a very healthy life after that. You're not 475 00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: supposed to be drinking or smoking or swearing, and um, 476 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: you have to stay away from call girls and things 477 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, you shouldn't get a new liver and 478 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: then like dive into the vodka bottle. You're you're pretty 479 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,239 Speaker 1: much signing a contract to become ned Flanders after you 480 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: get your organ donation. Yeah. Actually, just over Christmas heard 481 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: of a friend of a friend of a family member 482 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: that was a candidate for I think a liver transplant 483 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: and they would not do it because he wouldn't enter 484 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: um rehab. Really yeah, wow, so that's hardcore. Yeah, that 485 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: guy's dedicated to the booze, isn't it. Yeah, pretty much. Um, 486 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 1: And also you're if you are a recipient, there's some 487 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: expectation that you pay, like for the lodging and travel 488 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: expenses of the person who donated. Yeah, it's kind of 489 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: an unwritten rule from what I understand well and have 490 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: to be real, you know, it's kind of against the 491 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,479 Speaker 1: law really well, but it makes sense though, because if 492 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: you're let's say, you want to donate a kidney to 493 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: someone that lives across the country and you're spending money 494 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: off from work and flying out there and putting yourself 495 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: all right, it's gonna cost you some dough and a kidney. Yes, 496 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: you'd have to be a really nice person to be 497 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 1: an an anonymous Yeah, that'd be cool. All right. So, Chuck, 498 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: you want to talk about the black market? Yes, the 499 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: black market does exist. Isn't that crazy? Um? Yeah, but 500 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: not surprising. No, but it's pretty interesting. Um. It obviously exists, Um, 501 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: typically outside of the United States, although there have been 502 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: some cases inside the United States. Usually it's like, and 503 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: this is what's so said. Usually it's impoverished nations, And 504 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: what happened is that will be a couple of countries involved. 505 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: You'll take someone out of a really poor country offered 506 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: them like five thousand dollars for their kidney, and then 507 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: the middleman will get, you know, a hundred thousand dollars 508 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: for that kidney. And you know, it's not like these 509 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: are done in professional surgical rooms. It's a lot of time. 510 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: It's it's the back room, if you know what I mean. 511 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: And that's actually exactly what happened in two thousand three 512 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: in South Africa. Yeah, they were importing people from uh I, 513 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: guess the City of God in Brazil. Yeah, slums of Brazil. Yeah, 514 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: and um giving them five grand for their kidney and 515 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: then turn around selling it for a hundred k yep. 516 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: That's nuts, yep. And uh where else did it happen? 517 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: Villagers in India so that they were getting they weren't 518 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: getting nearly. They were getting about eight hundred dollars for 519 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: their organs, which is just unbelievable. And at one time 520 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: the Israeli organ brokers were obtaining these from Soviet Bloc 521 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: nations and doing the operations in Turkey. And this one 522 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: guy made a middleman, made about four million dollars before 523 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: he was caught, which is not bad harvesting organs, although 524 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: I imagine being an illegal organ broker is a fairly 525 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: stressful job. Yeah, and it happens in the US too, 526 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: although customarily it's um an organ broker and a nefarious 527 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: funeral director who harvest organs before cremation. Did you know 528 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: this happened? No? I didn't either, and I saw all 529 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: the six ft under of course you did. Uh. Did 530 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: you see the movie Thererista's No, that wasn't very good. 531 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: That was the the deal there though kids are like 532 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: captured in the jungle. No, but it was like an 533 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: Eli Roth movie. It was like hostile, except they were 534 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: harvesting organs basically instead of just blind torture. Uh. And 535 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: speaking of that Thereristas. That actually does happen in the world. 536 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: It's not just old wives tales. Poor Mohammed legend kidney 537 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: theft does happened. It really does, Mohammed. What do you say? 538 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,959 Speaker 1: His name was Selim Khan. Yes, he lived in Delhi, India, 539 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: and he was looking for a day's work and agreed 540 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: to go to a house under the premise that he 541 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: would get about four dollars a day for performing uh work. 542 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: Their construction work. All is on the up and up 543 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: so far then, he has held at gunpoint for several 544 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: days along with two other day labors. They were taken 545 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: to an operating room drugged and they awoke with a 546 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: horrific pain in their side and minus one kidney. And 547 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: when they took him to the hospital. When he went 548 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: to the hospital, he checked him out and he had 549 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: indeed been down one kidney. Not an urban legend. That 550 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: really happens, although it makes me wonder if the urban 551 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: legend gave rise to the actual practice. Oh yeah, you know, 552 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: maybe so. And Josh, the one US case that was 553 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: in here was really interesting too. Yes, Michael Master Master Marino. 554 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: There's an oral surgeon in New York and he opened 555 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: a company called Biomedical Tissue Services with an embalmer, which 556 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: should have been a real red flag that he partners 557 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: up with an embalmer. And this is in the year 558 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: two thousand, not even that long ago. Actually it was 559 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: ten years ago. I'm old. Uh. For many years though, 560 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: they harvested human tissue provided by funeral homes and sold 561 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: it to research facilities. And one of those bodies belonged 562 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: to who Alistair Cook Alistair Cook, famous host of Masterpiece Theater. 563 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,239 Speaker 1: So he was chopped up and given to unwitting well, 564 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: I don't know about recipients. They did harvest some of 565 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: his tissue. Yeah, yeah, how about that? It's pretty awesome. 566 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: So where are we now? We are I think we're 567 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: at the point where we check those stats. I have 568 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: them written down here as of two oh three pm. 569 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: What time is it now? Chuck's got to get out 570 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: of his h Okay to thirty one. I gotta telling 571 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: any disappointed if this number hasn't gone down, I think 572 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: all of our listeners will be too. So we started 573 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: out Chuck with a total of one five thousand two 574 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: on the waiting list. What are we at one oh five? Okay, 575 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: nothing has changed in twenty minutes with the kidney. We 576 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: are at three thousand twelve. Well, it would be the 577 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: same because that was the master stat. So the kidney 578 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: didn't change either. Let's just hope Jerry didn't put a 579 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: drum roll in anywhere, right. But I will say, though, 580 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: don't be disappointed, because, like I said earlier this morning, 581 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: um three people received kidneys that were in searches. Yeah, 582 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: let's let's like to think the other scenario hand out. 583 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: Are you a donor? I don't remember I was. At 584 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: one point in time I was seven bucks off, But um, 585 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: I think I'm going to go ahead and do it. Yeah, 586 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: this article inspired me because I'm of the belief that 587 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: the human body after you die is like worm dirt, 588 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: So I have no problem with donating my entire body 589 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: or all my organs, none of that. Yeah. Well, if 590 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: you want to learn more about oregan donation, you can 591 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: read Tom Sheeve's article on how stuff Works dot com. UH. 592 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: You can also check out the UM what is It 593 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: Chuck the Organ Procurement Network UM for their side of 594 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: the story. But I think you should also check out 595 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: the Life Guardian Foundation. They have a very much opposing 596 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 1: view of organ donation. So such a controversial topic should 597 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: probably um get all of the facts before you make 598 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: the very um important decision of whether or not you're 599 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,800 Speaker 1: going to be a dead donor. And if you decide 600 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: that you want to be, like Chuck said, let everybody know, 601 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: tell everybody, tell strangers on the streets. Just anytime you 602 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: meet a doctor, go I'm going to be an organ door. 603 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: And you may want to make the decision with your 604 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: loved ones as well, sure, even though ultimately it is 605 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: it is your call. So good luck with being a 606 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,320 Speaker 1: rag doll in the afterlife, which leads us, of course 607 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: to listener mill. Yes, Josh, I am going to call 608 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: this U interesting cleptomania story from Sarah Okay um Hi, Josh, 609 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: Chuck and Jerry. And she even spelled it correctly. Wow. 610 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,919 Speaker 1: I think that deserves a T shirt, don't you. Oh? 611 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: Actually she didn't. Sorry to ours Okay close though. Uh. 612 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 1: Here's a story that I always think of when you 613 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: hear anything about kleptomania. A while ago, I was working 614 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 1: in a large independent bookstore that had been a city 615 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,720 Speaker 1: institution for years. Like any retail establishment, they had experience 616 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: about ten theft loss a year, nothing too unusual. However, 617 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: one day in the late eighties, they received a thick, 618 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: densely written journal which detailed to the day, our moment, 619 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: weather condition, et cetera, every single book this person ever 620 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 1: stole from the bookstory but this guy turned it in. Uh. 621 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: They showed it to us in sales training. It was 622 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,439 Speaker 1: written in a cramped hand, all pages front and back, 623 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: which is really creepy. When you're writing on the front 624 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: and back, you're either really green or you're like a 625 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: serial killer. That's what I think. Uh. Sometimes a clipping 626 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: or a picture from one of the stolen books is 627 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: taped to it. So of course the bookstore said, huh, 628 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: maybe we should prosecute since they confessed basically to stealing 629 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 1: over a period of twenty years, adding up to thousands 630 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: of dollars. Whose recognis They contacted the people that returned address, 631 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: and it turned out the person who wrote in was 632 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: a son or daughter the very prominent local family, active 633 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: in politics and big charities and the like, the kind 634 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: of family they named Wings of Hospitals after hot sarahs 635 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: So of course they didn't want their good name drafted 636 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: the mud and apparently settled out of court for an 637 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: undisclosed Some money can do that. I guess that journal 638 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: was something to behold though, So um, that's what Sarah says. 639 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: That is definitely a c. That's awesome. Yeah. Cool. Well, 640 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: if anybody's ever sent you a cryptic or disturbing journal 641 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: and you want to tell us about it, or if 642 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: you just want to say hi, you can send us 643 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: an email at stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com. 644 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics at 645 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Want more how stuff works, 646 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: check out our blogs on the how stuff works dot 647 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: com home page. H