WEBVTT - The Karol Markowicz Show: The Good Ole Blogging Days with Glenn Reynolds 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:07.360 Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show. On iHeartRadio, 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:11.240 last episode, I talked about men cheating on their wives, 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:15.080 throwing away their family, and how susceptible rich men are 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:17.520 to the idea that they could get away with it. 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:20.760 On this episode, I want to talk about divorce ideation 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:23.960 I see from women. There was a story in New 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:27.960 York Magazine by Emily Gould on how she had considered 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.840 divorcing her husband. I mean she was also in the 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.320 throes of a manic episode and ended up in a 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:37.120 mental hospital. But the crux of the piece was that 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:41.080 she became obsessed with divorce. The piece is called Should. 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:42.919 I Leave My Husband? The Lore of Divorce. 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:45.559 She writes that she read a bunch of books by 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.639 divorced women. Here's a quote in Nora Efren's Heartburn. As 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:53.159 an aftermath, I found an airtight case for divorce. The 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.040 husband was the villain and the wife the wrongs party, 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:58.800 and the inevitable result was splitting up. I felt an 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.360 echo of this later on when I read Liz Len's 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:05.000 polemic The American ex Wife out this month, marketed as 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.920 a deeply validating manifesto on the gender politics of marriage. 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.759 Bad and divorce actually pretty good. The book begins by 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.679 detailing how Lens's husband rarely did household chores and hid 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.480 belongings of hers that he didn't like, for example, a 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.199 mug that said right like a motherfucker in a box 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:24.520 in the basement. I didn't want to waste my one 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.440 wild and precious life telling a grown man where to 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.560 find the ketchup. Lens rights. What was compelling about my 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.440 marriage wasn't its evils or its villains, but its commonplace 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.319 horror end quote. I see this a lot, especially in 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:42.640 the writing world, divorce as this amazing thing that women 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.880 simply must do. I mean, how could you waste your 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.120 one wild and precious life with a man? 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:48.440 Right? 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.760 I mean, look, divorce happens, people fall out of love, 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:55.400 people find they'd rather live alone. But this idea that 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.320 divorce is exciting or divorce is freeing or whatever is 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:03.040 a lie. And it's a lie aimed. I think more 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.720 women than it meant. Gould writes, quote, I read more 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:10.079 books about divorce. I received an early copy of Sarah 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:14.200 Manguso's Liars, marketed as a searing novel about being a wife, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.560 a mother, and an artist and how marriage makes liars 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:17.840 of us. 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:18.839 All in it. 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:22.520 John, a creative dilettante, and Jane, a writer, meet and 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:26.720 soon decide to marry. Liars describes their marriage from beginning 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:29.960 to end, a span of almost fifteen years, and is 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.679 narrated by Jane. The beginning of their relationship is delirious. 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:36.400 This is a quote inside the quote. I tried to 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:40.520 explain that ferocious hunger and couldn't it came from somewhere 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:43.640 beyond reasoned end quote. But the opening of that book 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.880 also contains a warning. Then I married a man, as 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:50.840 women do. My life became archtypical, a drag show of 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.960 nuclear familyhood. I got en mesh to a story that 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.560 had already been told ten billion times. I felt, perversely 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.440 reassured that I was merely adding another story to the 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.840 ten billion. It made it seem like it was less 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:06.880 my fault. End quote. Marriage makes liars of us. I 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:10.200 don't know about that. Marriage feels very truthful to me, 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:14.280 like I get to be really, really myself. And look, 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:16.520 if you're in a marriage where you feel like it's 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:19.320 a lie, I'm not saying stay in it and that's 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.520 it and just suffer. But I should note at the 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:26.000 end of that Emily Gold piece. She realizes that she 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.399 had been in a crazy place, and she does stay 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:31.280 in her marriage. Maybe if you're feeling like you're living 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.480 a lie, it's not the marriage that's necessarily the problem. 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:38.280 Last episode, I talked about men making mistakes, cheating on 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:42.080 their wives, leaving their families during time of change. I 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.880 think for women, it's in times of extreme routine where 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.720 nothing has changed for a long time, or maybe nothing 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.600 exciting is going on, that they start to daydream of 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.960 a single future where they're finally live their truth. My 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:59.720 advice would be start now, start living truthfully now, and 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.800 you'll find that marriage was not the problem. Coming up 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:09.840 next and interview with Glenn Reynolds. Join us after the break. Hi, 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:13.040 and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:18.040 Guest today is Glenn Reynolds, Law professor, Instapundit, founder, fellow 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.760 New York Post columnist and writer at instapundit dot subdeck 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.040 dot com. Hi Glenn, so nice to talk to you. 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:25.760 Hi, great to be here, Great to see you. 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:28.840 I mean, just talking to the blog father is very 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.320 exciting for me. You know, you had a huge influence 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:33.520 in me becoming a writer. 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:39.880 And just your alarming news blog years ago or something. 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:40.400 Yeah. 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.120 Yeah, I started it in two thousand and two. I 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:47.120 think you when did you start instapundit. 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:50.240 Two thousand and one, right, I a month before nine 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:51.000 to eleven. 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.080 Right, so I followed nine to eleven on your blog. 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.320 I didn't have a TV. I mean, I just I 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.720 didn't even have a desk. I was, you know, a 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:04.360 to graduate school eventually, but I was just living a 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.960 very meager existence. And I remember sitting on the floor 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:12.760 of my apartment in New York and refreshing instapundit and 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.120 you know, just getting all the news that way. 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.480 Do you miss those blog days? 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:20.960 I mean, certainly not nine to eleven. 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:21.840 No, No. 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:25.960 I just wrote a history. Actually, Michael Walsh has got 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:27.800 a media book coming out, and I wrote a chapter 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:29.839 on the early days of the blog is here for It? 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:32.800 Which was fun because I really did sort of go 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:34.880 back and revisit that and go back and read through 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.240 my archives and read some of the articles people wrote 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:39.920 about it back then. And you know, the first couple 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:45.280 of years, from basically two thousand and one before nine 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.120 eleven to around the summer at two thousand and three, 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.200 it was a real innocent and pleasant time in the 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:56.159 blogger sphere. It was so new and that was exciting, 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:59.600 and there was a camaraderie that I mean, it's hard 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.800 to image and now in these polarized times, but between 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.840 the left and the right, bloggers like it was more 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.120 important that we were all doing this cool new thing 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:12.120 than that we disagreed about politics. And the remnants of 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:15.000 nineties connecticuet were still around. So I remember Dave Copple 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.159 and I actually were in the comments at the Daily 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:21.799 Coast having a civil and intelligent discussion of assault weapons 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:25.039 bands with Daily Coast readers, which you know, within a 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:28.200 couple of years was unimaginable but was still a thing. 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:31.760 Then I remember the moment that I was like, Okay, 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.320 this is all over, this camaraderie and all of that. 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:35.040 Because it was the same. 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.719 I mean in New York we'd have like blogger parties 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.200 and it would be like cooking bloggers and travel bloggers 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.919 and obviously all the political bloggers and whatever. But it 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:47.200 was all like we were doing something together. But I 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:49.719 remember that feminist site, Feminist Like. 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:50.320 I used to. 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:55.560 Comment there barely regularly, and then one time I commented 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.919 that trans people should have to disclose at their trends, 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.360 like they shouldn't trick you, and you know, kind of 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.560 not just just be open about it. I thought it 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.159 was barely pro trends, and I thought that that was 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.280 a normal comment. I got blocked, and I was like, WHOA, 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.960 something has changed here, Like, you know, I used to 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.080 be like, you know, the quirky conservative in their comments section. 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.360 That quickly became unacceptable. And I think that that's you know, 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:23.240 has translated to so many other spaces in our world. 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:25.680 Yeah, you really saw it. I mean, if I were 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:28.000 going to pick a single dividing line for the blogsphere 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:32.559 as a whole, it would probably be and again, summer 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:35.360 of two thousand and three, about the time that Andrew 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:37.360 Sullivan sort of took a few weeks off and then 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:43.160 came back as a pro carry blogger. Careful not to 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:45.160 just make a big deal about that until after he 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:50.080 did his last big fundraising drive, but you know, I 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.840 felt like that everybody suddenly was like, Okay, it's two 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.920 thousand and three. We pretended to be patriotic for a 0:07:57.960 --> 0:07:59.400 couple of years, but we got a gear up for 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:02.280 the election. The gloves have to come on, which didn't 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.080 even work out for him, as it turned out, but 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:08.840 it definitely changed the tone of everything, and it's only 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.560 gotten worse for the I mean, actually it's gotten better 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:13.440 in a way. I mean, you know, blogs are now 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:17.160 so old, they're like five or six media generations of 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.360 revolution behind. So uh, you know, I'm kind of like 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:23.120 this quirky museum piece. Now I can do and what 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:25.440 I want. The notion that anybody's going to get mad 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:28.400 and go after a blogger, now I guess it could happen, 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.640 but it just it's not like it was. 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.319 Yeah, how did you escape being canceled? 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.679 I feel like people tried on a number of occasions, 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.040 but uh, you know, I'm pretty hard to cancel. I mean, 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.920 I control my own platform, which is the most important thing, 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.200 and I have a tenured job at a state school 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:47.840 in a red state where I have a lot of 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:50.480 friends on the legislature, so it's you know, I'm just 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:54.800 pretty safe. But people have certainly tried on a number 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:58.400 of occasions, and it generally hasn't worked out well for them. 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.839 But uh, you know, know they there's just a class 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:04.760 of people who just are offended by the idea that 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.160 somebody's even allowed to say stuff they don't. 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:11.680 How dare you? Yeah, so you don't use Twitter, which 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:12.439 is interesting. 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.680 No, I mean I'm not. I have a Twitter account. 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.400 I actually have a couple of them. I have a 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.439 personal account I started once in the very earliest days 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.720 of Twitter because I was doing some media panel and 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:25.920 I needed to tweet from it as part of the setup. 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.040 And it still exists, and then I have the instantpund 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:33.400 the account. I actually deleted it. I really just you know, 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.040 it was just I was writing this book on social media, 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:39.040 the social media upheaval, and I was just researching all 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:43.200 the nasty stuff that Twitter does. Your mind, Yeah, and 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:46.360 so I just honestly, they pissed me off about something 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:49.680 and I just said, screw it, I'm out of here, 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:52.560 and deleted it. And then I forget who it was. 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.880 Somebody maybe it's Charles Glasser. Somebody said you really shouldn't 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.680 delete your account. You really should just reopen it and 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:01.679 not is it so nobody can pretend to be you? 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:04.840 That makes sense? So I have it. I think I 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:06.800 may have tweeted three or four times in the last 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:08.200 several years, but you. 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:09.760 Just don't like it, or what's that. 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:14.160 I was a late adopter of Twitter ideal set up 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.040 for me was when somebody and I didn't know who 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.120 it was, had set up an Incipendent Twitter account that 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.360 did nothing but tweet stuff from the RSS feed on 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.080 my blog and that was great. I was happy with that, 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.079 and somebody's like, shouldn't you, you know, have it taken down? 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:29.120 And I was like, no, I love this, And then 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:31.040 it quit working. I just broke I don't know why. 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:36.680 And I had to actually get lawyers to get the 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:38.960 handle turned over to me since I had the trademark 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:42.520 for Incipendent. And then once I got that, I started tweeting, 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:45.400 which was a big mistake because it's just, I mean, 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.680 it has its satisfaction. It's always fun to really administer 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.360 a sick burden to somebody, but you can waste a 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:58.079 lot of time administer burns. And it's the crystal math 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:00.680 of social media and that it's the most addictive but 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:04.520 the least satisfying, you know. And I was spending a 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:06.240 lot of time on it. I was in a bad 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:10.680 mood a lot, and ultimately, you know, uh, after I quit, 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:12.880 everybody's like, you'll be back in a few months, and 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.600 I could be who knows, you know, but I I've 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:18.560 never missed it once. They didn't drive any traffic to 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:19.800 my site to speak of here. 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.679 That's a big part of like, it's a big negative 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:25.440 for the site. I think people think that it's a 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.040 driver of traffic, and it's just just not. I would 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.200 rather go viral on Facebook any day of the week, 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.880 like one of my columns, than on Twitter, because you know, 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:35.560 I just don't I. 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:39.559 Don't know why Facebook drives traffic. I think it drives 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.280 a lot less that it used to. Yeah, Facebook drive 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:45.880 has always driven more traffic than Twitter, and everybody knows that, 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.679 but I've never heard anybody explain why. My theory is 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.880 just that people on Twitter are at such a superficial 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.520 level they just don't ever click on a link, so right, Yeah. 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:57.800 They see the headline and that's it, Whereas on Facebook, 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.560 I think, like, you know, your grandma share it with 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.480 her friend, and like they're they're actually reading it and 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.360 clicking it and sharing it and talking about it, which 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.160 is you're right, it's not the same kind of reach 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:12.520 on Facebook that it used to be. But I always 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:16.400 just preferred sort of the real people on Facebook versus 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.080 the media people on Twitter to like my stuff. 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:20.760 It just meant so much more to me. 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:25.160 So yeah, the appeal of Twitter is it was very 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:29.000 useful for journalists who had time to kill, you know. 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:32.959 I mean I remember somebody saying Twitter exists because people 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.640 like me being or waiting in line for congressional hearings have 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:38.520 nothing to do but play with our phone for five 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:40.600 or ten minutes, you know. And I think there's something 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.040 to that, but that doesn't waiting on any line really. 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.880 But I also agree with you completely that it's the 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.800 crystal meth. It's the one that I am absolutely most 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.480 addicted to. It's the one that I take breaks from. 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:54.440 It's the one that I like, I feel like I 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:56.280 need to get clean from occasionally. 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:58.040 I don't feel like that about Instagram. 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.000 Like Instagram, I see like home to core tips and 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.480 like fashion and like some Taylor Swift news, I don't 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.439 feel like I'm getting you know, the negative side of 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:08.240 the world on. 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.439 Instagram Instagram is how I keep up with Taylor too. 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:15.600 That's my Tay sorts among us, you know. 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.080 Right well, it is funny. And I don't do TikTok. 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:24.560 I actually I have. I have a former student that 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.360 I call my contributing TikTok editor. Because she sends me 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:29.800 tiktoks and I post on the blog from time to time. 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:32.240 But I don't want the app on my phone because 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.719 I know what it's doing to me, right, and I 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.280 really don't want to spend any more time on the 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.720 Internet or on any screen. I'm kind of trying to. 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.120 I mean, for me to talk about reducing my Internet exposure. 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.280 It's kind of a joke, but I hear that, you 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:49.520 know the whole what is it called the new Apple glasses, 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:50.600 the Provision? 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.000 Yet no, like that looks like a nightmare to me. 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:53.960 Why would I want that? 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.560 And it's you know, and the thinking that people are like, 0:13:57.559 --> 0:13:59.360 oh when I say that, like, oh, you know, in 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:01.400 a few years, you'll see you're going to want that. 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:03.080 I'm like, I'm never going to want that. 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:07.240 I was. It was the Foresight Vision conference. It was 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.240 in the nineties. It was probably like ninety seven ninety eight. 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.120 Jarre Lanier, who was with the original VR pioneers, had 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:17.800 had his display with the same kind of goggles and 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:19.960 you can look at it and the shark would swim 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.200 by you and stuff, and everybody was like, this is 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:23.640 going to be the next big thing in two or 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:25.320 three years, and I was on it and I was like, 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.440 you know, this just seems really lame to me. I mean, 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:30.480 you know, I know they have those three D movies 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:32.800 in the fifties where you wore the glasses, and that's 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:34.480 kind of what it seems like to me. It's like 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.840 a gimmick that. Yeah, I can see how for some 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.720 stuff a truly immersive experience would really be worth it, 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.200 but not that much. And I'm not going to be 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:48.280 the first one to adopt it because I'm honestly, I 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.160 am trying to spend more time outdoors, Yeah, and actually 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.960 looking at the real world, not outdoors wearing goggles. 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.280 Right, I think that's the way to go. 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.000 Really, we're going to take a quick break and be 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:05.120 right back on the car Marco Witch Show. So you're, 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:10.200 you know, a very well known law professor. You're the 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:14.560 father of many, many writer children on the internet, the 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:15.240 blog father. 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.800 That's my favorite thing is that I have all these 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:20.040 blog children out there. 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.280 You do, they're like scattered through the world. Do you 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:24.280 feel like you've made it? 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:29.160 Made it? You know? My ambitions were ever super huge? 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.120 So yeah, just so, and you have a beautiful wife. 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.760 I have to also say, Helen is like every time 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.000 you post a picture of her, I'm like, I don't know, 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.560 she's brilliant too, but she is stunning, Like she is 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.040 literally one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen. 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:44.520 She's very beautiful. And that we have a lovely daughter 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.040 who is now married. We have a lovely, delightful son 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.280 in law who's a great guy. So yeah, in that's sense, 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.160 I've definitely made it. And career wise, you know, I'm 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.960 my law professor's standards. I'm successful, and that's all I 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.680 really ever aim for. So I mean, I it's not 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:01.560 quite When I was in college, I wanted to be 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.120 a pundit and write newspaper columns, and I do that. 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.360 So yeah, that's. 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:10.680 What you wanted to do. Well, But what's the like 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:12.240 if that wasn't your career? 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.040 If this, if you weren't a law professor and you 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:16.280 weren't a pundit, what would be plan B. 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:22.680 I'd probably be a lawyer. I like practicing law fine. 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:29.000 I don't miss it except on payday. But honestly, I 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.240 didn't mind practicing law at all. I like what I 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.640 do now a lot better. Which are there some people 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.960 who become law professors because they hate practicing law. I didn't. 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.280 It was interesting. I liked my clients for the most part. 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:42.760 What kind of law did you practice? 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.920 So I was in DC and we had what was 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:49.560 called a Washington policy practice, which basically means lobbying and 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:55.200 administrative law. And I did work telecommunications in aerospace, mostly 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:59.400 a little bit of food and drugs. Sometimes represented McDonald's 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.440 on a few things. Wow, So you know it was 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:08.040 it was fine. I liked it fine, And you know, 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.440 I could have stayed and done that. And the nice 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.240 thing about the firm I work at is the DC 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:16.159 Office had a big international trade practice. They had economists 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:18.480 on staff. They actually encourage people to write and publish, 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.199 and that's kind of how I started writing lot of 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.520 ther articles and books even before I became the law professor. 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:29.000 How long have you been in Tennessee thirty plus years? Now? 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:30.800 Oh wow? 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.359 How the last few years of all the new people 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.800 moving in, how has that been mostly great? 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:40.919 I was really concerned that it was going to be 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.920 like Colorado or something and bringing a bunch of people 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.800 who turned the state blue, and the local Democrats still 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:51.040 hope for that. But everybody we meet who's moving here 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:55.320 is in some ways I think more conservative than people 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:57.439 here are, or at least more aware they've been in 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.439 a state that went down, whereas people here, I think 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:04.320 are kind of complacent. So I've noticed that some of 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.560 them are becoming more politically active than most of the locals. 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:08.400 Interesting. 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:10.880 Yeah, I think that the last few years that this 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:16.320 recent migration has been, you know, people with a purpose moving. 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:20.280 It's like nobody's moving to Florida now for the low 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.440 taxes or the weather. I mean, look, those are all 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.280 side benefits obviously, but it's. 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:26.119 For a reason. 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.240 You're you're wanting something different, You're wanting something better, and 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.840 I think Tennessee and Florida and Texas are obviously at 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:34.720 the forefront of that. I don't I don't I see 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.480 the same thing. I don't think that this is a 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:38.240 blue migration. 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:38.680 Of course. 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:42.399 The concern is that once this wave of people comes 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:44.720 in and kind of settles down, that the next wave 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:46.879 will be like, wait, they've built something really good there, 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:48.200 let's go there and change it. 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.240 And yeah, well we'll see how that goes. 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:55.240 But when I think somebody said, which is a good observation, 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.520 is the people who move from a blue state to 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.439 a red state because they were employed warrior moves typically 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:04.480 bring their blue state attitudes with them. The people who 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:09.120 pick up stakes and do it themselves typically don't. And 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.199 so I think that's right. The one thing I do 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:13.960 think sort of funny is, you know, and it's kind 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.440 of like everybody who moves here immediately like learns to 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:17.760 shoot if they don't already know how. 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:21.600 Oh yeah, that's definitely true. For us, we you know, 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.160 had never shot a gun or even touched a gun 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.800 or anything, and now we enjoy the shooting very very much. 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:29.640 It's benefit. 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:31.959 It's like, why wouldn't you take advantage of your rights 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:34.040 and why wouldn't you learn how to do something like 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:35.000 that when you can? 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.000 I love it. Now. Do you know Hadas Levy who's 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.479 down there in your neck of the woods. She does 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.119 a lot of tactical training for women. 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:44.400 I know the name. 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:47.040 I feel like somebody might have mentioned her to me 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.440 and maybe I'll look her up after this, but. 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.959 Yeah, maybe interview her. I'll bet she'd be a good interview. 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:53.560 Oh yeah, I mean, I'll have her on. 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.000 So one of the things we've talked about on this 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:01.200 show is, you know, cultural problems and society problems. 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:04.000 And so's the what's your take. 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.160