1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg is now on your dashboard with Apple CarPlay and 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Android Auto. It gives you access to every Bloomberg podcast, 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: live audio feeds from Bloomberg Radio, print stories from Bloomberg 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: News in audio form, and the latest headlines of the 5 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: click of a button with Bloomberg News. Now it's free 6 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: with the latest version of the Bloomberg Business App. That's 7 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business App. Get it on your phone in 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: the Apple App Store or on Google Play. Just download 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: the app, connect your phone to your car and get started. 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: And it's all presented by our sponsor, Interactive Brokers. 11 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside 12 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: my co host Matt Miller. 13 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 1: Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, 14 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market Moven News. 15 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 2: I'm the Bloomberg Markets podcast called Apple Podcasts or wherever 16 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com Slash podcast. 17 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 3: All right, let's get over to Washington, DC right now. 18 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: A lot going on there as the government, as the 19 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: as Congress you know, runs closer and closer to a shutdown. 20 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 3: We have a serious upset. 21 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: I would say for Democrats in West Virginia. Nathan Dean 22 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: joins us. He covers all things politics out of the 23 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: Washington d C Bureau. So mister Manchin is not running 24 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: for reelection. What does this mean for the Senate, Nathan. 25 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 4: Well, it means pretty much the Democrats have a really steep, 26 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 4: uphill battle to keep the Senate in the twenty twenty 27 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 4: four elections. Look, it was going to be a challenge 28 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 4: to begin with, but with Senator Mansion announcing his retirement, 29 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 4: that essentially flips the state to the Republicans. And so 30 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 4: you know, this election is very bad for those members 31 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 4: in the Senate. There aren't many Republicans out there running 32 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 4: for reelection that the Democrats potentially have a chance, and 33 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 4: that actually could play into what the Democrats do for 34 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 4: the rest of the year before the election. We may 35 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 4: see them focus more on confirming judges and confirming appointments 36 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 4: and trying to get a lot of the cleanup work 37 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 4: that they can do when you control the Senate. Before 38 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 4: you know, they anticipate to lose it in the twenty 39 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 4: twenty four election. 40 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 5: I was actually I wanted to ask you about that, Nathan, 41 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 5: because I think you know a lot of us. Know, 42 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 5: Joe mansioned to be I guess a moderate Democrat is 43 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 5: how he would describe himself, and on a lot of issues, 44 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 5: probably leans a little bit more right than left. And 45 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 5: what a thought, maybe, you know, if the Democrats could 46 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 5: hold on to that seat, this would maybe be viewed 47 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 5: more opportunistically, perhaps if you could get somebody who's like 48 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 5: a little bit more in line with the agenda that 49 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 5: you're trying to push. 50 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, but I mean you also have to answer the 51 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 4: question of what would he do if he were to 52 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 4: actually win reelection. I mean, then you know the makeup 53 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 4: of the Senate could be if the Republicans were to 54 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 4: take the Senate without Senator or with Senator Mansion there, 55 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 4: you know, he would lose a lot of that power 56 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 4: as being that one kingmaker individual that can sort of 57 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 4: go back and forth between the parties and try and appeal. 58 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 4: So I think this is sort of also maybe and 59 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 4: this is just my own view, that maybe this is 60 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 4: Senator Mansion trying to prepare for the future. You know, 61 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 4: he made that statement yesterday online how he wants to 62 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 4: travel the country and see if there's a way to 63 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 4: mobilize a centrist third party run. I don't think that's 64 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 4: going to happen. Again, that's just my own personal view. 65 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 4: So I just think that he saw the future and 66 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 4: was like, you know what, maybe the future is better 67 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 4: for me working outside of Congress than being inside, because 68 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 4: if the Republicans do take the Senate, you know, he 69 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 4: may actually not may not have all that much stuff 70 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 4: to do. 71 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about the Congress here. Mike Johnson 72 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: has let's see, seven days left before a government shutdown. 73 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 3: Does he have any plan to stop that? 74 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 4: So, you know what we've just heard is, you know, 75 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 4: there's really two options on the table. One is a 76 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 4: clean continuing resolution. This other idea, and this is the 77 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 4: one that I think he's going to go with initially, 78 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 4: is this idea of a laddered continuing resolution, so that 79 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 4: he would extend funding for certain agencies to say January fifteenth, 80 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 4: and then funding for other agencies to February fifteenth. So 81 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 4: then you would have a rolling set of potential government 82 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 4: shutdowns depending on which agency you're impacted by. You know, 83 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 4: we are actually telling our clients that we still think 84 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 4: it's around a forty percent ants of a shutdown next week. 85 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 4: I know that doesn't sound like in line with the 86 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 4: news headlines that are coming out there. But you know, 87 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 4: there are just too many political cakes that are being 88 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 4: baked around, you know, Ukraine, Israel, House GOP ideas, border security, 89 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 4: and none of these ideas are actually close to fruition, 90 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 4: and they need more time for negotiation. And so ultimately 91 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 4: I think what will happen is is that next week 92 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 4: Speaker Johnson will pursue this letter at CR. It won't 93 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 4: go anywhere with the Senate, and then they'll entertain this 94 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 4: idea of maybe kicking the can down the road another 95 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 4: four weeks or eight weeks to give those ideas more 96 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 4: time to fight or to go to be closer to finalization, 97 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 4: and then kick the can on the bigger fight because 98 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 4: there's really no strategy yet of why you would shut 99 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 4: the government down. Most government shutdowns, a party goes in 100 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 4: there and says, we will want we want to close 101 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 4: the government and get this in return, and that just 102 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 4: doesn't exist. So I think the Republicans need a little 103 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 4: bit more time to figure out what that is, and 104 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 4: so I think ultimately they'll just kick the can down 105 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 4: the road. 106 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,679 Speaker 5: Kick the can down the road, isn't that the famous 107 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 5: phrase of this whole exercise that we've been going through. 108 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 5: For man, when was the first one now or the 109 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 5: potential one? 110 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: Was it end of I mean in this in this Congress. 111 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 5: In this or the beginning of October? Right, that's when 112 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 5: that was potentially getting going y. 113 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 3: Yes, and we the debt ceiling. 114 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 5: Debate, right, Okay, so we've kicked the can to now. Okay, 115 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 5: all right, just had to catch up on the timeline 116 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 5: there a little bit, Nathan. It's been a lot to 117 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 5: keep track of. When Mike Johnson emerged as the Speaker 118 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 5: of the House, were any of these proposals on the 119 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 5: table at the time. Did people potentially like catapult him 120 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,119 Speaker 5: into this position because they had confidence that he could 121 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 5: avert a shutdown? 122 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 4: No, I think it's just more Look the way it 123 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 4: works in Washington is in this my view is is 124 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 4: that it's almost like water taking the path of least resistance, 125 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 4: you know, until they get back into political walls. Politicians 126 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 4: on both sides of the aisle will try and figure 127 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 4: out flexible ways of moving around. And I think that's 128 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 4: what Speaker Johnson is trying to do here, is just 129 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,799 Speaker 4: trying to figure out a way to keep the momentum 130 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 4: going without being backed into a political wall. And so 131 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 4: you know, obviously he's got members of his caucus that 132 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 4: want him to, you know, try and get all these 133 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 4: policy goals. It will never happen if you have the 134 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 4: Senate or you know, the Democratic control, and obviously President 135 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 4: Biden would have to sign off on it. So the 136 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 4: odds of all that happening are almost nil. So how 137 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 4: do you get out of that, Well, you kick the 138 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 4: can down the road and you say you, rather than 139 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 4: making the tough decision today, we're going to make the 140 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 4: tough decision the next time. Now, I think Spiker Johnson 141 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 4: has a mulligan here because this is the first time 142 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 4: he's done this and it was such a quick time 143 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 4: between the election of his speakership to today. I think 144 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 4: after he pursues this latter a cr he can go 145 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 4: to his caucus and say, look, we tried. There's still 146 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 4: a lot of ideas out there that we you know, 147 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 4: we have some issues on border security that we're negotiating 148 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 4: with the White House on. Let's just move this fight 149 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 4: in either next year or later in December, and then 150 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 4: we'll have our fight then. You know. The other thing 151 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 4: to just point out is that you know, the election 152 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,559 Speaker 4: that happened in Virginia and in Kentucky and so forth. 153 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 4: This wasn't exactly a good night for you know, in Ohio. 154 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 4: You know, wasn't a good night for the Republicans. Why 155 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 4: would you, if you're the party of the scene is 156 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 4: shutting the government down, want to have two bad whammies 157 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 4: over a series of two weeks. I think it's more 158 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 4: sense to just kick the can again down the road. 159 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. 160 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: I mean, maybe Johnson gets the mulligan, but the Republicans 161 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: don't because they already kicked the can once and then 162 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: fired McCarthy for it. He is the one who took 163 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: us through the debt sealing deal in which was way 164 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: back in May. So they've been you know, kind of 165 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: stuttering and starting all year long without getting a lot done. 166 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: By the way, speaking of getting little done, it seems 167 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: in a recent poll that American voters are more concerned 168 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: about border security than they are about you know, Israel, 169 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: Hamas and Ukraine Russia. What's the Biden administration going to 170 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: do about it? I mean, they've arguably had years to 171 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: deal with it and haven't. 172 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, so obviously the Ukraine Israel issue is 173 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 4: something that's a little bit more by partisan at least 174 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 4: in the Senate, and so I think they're going to 175 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 4: be trying to work that out. You know, there are 176 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 4: negotiations going on in the Senate Overboard of Security. President 177 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 4: by Neven just said a couple of days ago that 178 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 4: they're open to it. You know, the reason why I 179 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 4: think he's saying they're open to it is this is 180 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 4: one of those issues, like you pointed out that you know, 181 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 4: voters may not be too thrilled with his position going 182 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 4: into an election year, so why wouldn't they do something? 183 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 4: So you know, but ultimately, what we're telling our clients 184 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 4: is if you look at what has to happen between 185 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 4: now and the twenty twenty four elections, once we get 186 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 4: through this funding fight, there's really not a left a 187 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 4: lot left on the table. The debt ceiling isn't all 188 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 4: that much, you know, isn't there until after the election. 189 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 4: So there's nothing really scary for markets outside of the 190 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 4: geopolitical issues. So you know, markets could have some clarity 191 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 4: once this funding in Ukraine and Israel issues goes through, 192 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 4: because twenty twenty four, a lot more focus is just 193 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 4: going to be running for reelection. 194 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 3: Nathan, thanks so much for joining us. 195 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: Pleasure having you as always Nathan Dean from Bloomberg Intelligence, 196 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: where he is senior policy analysts for US government. 197 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 6: You're listening to the teenth Kenser Live program Bloomberg Markets 198 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 6: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the 199 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 6: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on 200 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 6: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 201 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: Maybe mulroy knows. He's the co founder of the Lobo Institute. 202 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: We love to get his insight on what's going on 203 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: in geopolitics, especially in the Middle East because his senior 204 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: fellow at the Middle East Institute. But he is a marine. 205 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: What you don't say former marine, do you, Mick? Isn't 206 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: it one a marine, always a marine? 207 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 7: That's right. The Commandade actually passed a rule that once 208 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 7: a marine is always a marine. So we're just marines, 209 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 7: all right. 210 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: Well, we thank you for your service and congratulate you 211 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: and your your brothers and sisters on this the two 212 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: hundred and forty eighth birthday of the United States Marines. Absolutely, 213 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about, first off, the situation 214 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: in the Middle East and how it's developing now, because 215 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: you know on October seventh. 216 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 3: I think. 217 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: Nearly everyone was shocked and horrified by the attacks of 218 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: Hamas on the Israeli people, and it seems that many 219 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: people since then, or or or or the voices that 220 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: support the Palestinian cause and even support Hamas have grown 221 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: louder and louder. What do you think the national feeling 222 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: is now about this Israeli Palestinian war? 223 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 7: So I just simply don't understand that people who support 224 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 7: Hamas that would be the equivalent, at least the way 225 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 7: I see it as supporting isis essentially deprave terrorist organization 226 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 7: now being concerned about the Palestinian people. I think is 227 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 7: is not only understandable, I think it should be the case. 228 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 7: So I think there is the balance because war is ugly, 229 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 7: but it has to be fought within certain bounds, and 230 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 7: we've set that internationally. And I do think, you know, 231 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 7: everybody's jumping to the conclusion that the Israelis perhaps went 232 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 7: too far. I think that's to be determined, But certainly 233 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 7: the level of civilian casualties is unacceptable, As Secretary of 234 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 7: Blincoln said, I would share that. But now we're seeing 235 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 7: a lot of things done to move civilians to the 236 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 7: south to get out of the area of the most 237 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 7: significant fighting, which is important. I think they should be 238 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 7: set up a safe zone where people can receive food 239 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 7: and water, and it's monitored so that the AMAS fighters 240 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 7: can't hide amongst those folks. But we're going to see 241 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 7: an increasingly violent fight in Gaza City. It's already started, 242 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 7: but it's far from over. And that objective of the 243 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 7: Israeli defense forces is to destroy the moss and that 244 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 7: can only be done close and personal. 245 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 5: I do want to come back to Secretary blink In in 246 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 5: a moment, but first, Mick would love it if you 247 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 5: could tell us a bit more the perspective that you 248 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 5: were coming at this from. I see that you were. 249 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 5: You were to the Department of Defense. So you were 250 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 5: the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Defense in the Middle East 251 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 5: at the in the federal government, and now you're a 252 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 5: senior fellow at the Middle East Institute. Can you just 253 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 5: tell us what that means and like what your role 254 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 5: is right now? 255 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 7: So I started for the most part as a practitioner 256 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 7: of uh you know, irregular warfare warfare in general, as 257 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 7: a marine, and then as a well it's called a 258 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 7: part military officer in the CIA, which is our version 259 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 7: of the Special Operations in the Agency. So I spent 260 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 7: most of my time in conflict zones, as did most 261 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 7: of my colleagues, and I fought many times in urban 262 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 7: environments and it is the by far the worst. It's 263 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 7: very disoriented, it's very violent, and it's you just never 264 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 7: know what's coming at you. So that's that's what I 265 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 7: brought into being a policy person for Secretary Madis and 266 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 7: then Secretary Esper. Was mostly a practitioner's point of view, 267 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 7: but then I got obviously school up pretty quick on policy, 268 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 7: so I view it from both lenses when I look 269 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 7: and analyze these type of conflicts. 270 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 5: Thanks for that, Yeah, I think I was definitely want 271 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 5: to know a bit more about your background here. Very impressive. 272 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 5: So you're also a former coach at USA Boxing in 273 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 5: the Marines for a few years, so very impressive pedigree. 274 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 5: And wanted to echo Madden thanking you for your service 275 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 5: as well. 276 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: A few years Marines from nineteen eighty eight twenty fourteen. 277 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's taller than a few Yeah, so you certainly 278 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 5: have a lot more to bring to the table than 279 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 5: we do in this perspective, So I did want to 280 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 5: come back yeah to Secretary Blinken's visit then and what 281 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 5: you made of his time in the Middle East, and 282 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 5: how his reaction was and where basically the US's role 283 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 5: is in this conflict right now. 284 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 7: So I think one of the roles that the US 285 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 7: is attempting to play is to talk about the day 286 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 7: after this is going to happen. I believe Hamas will 287 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 7: be destroyed, as they should be. What's going to come next? 288 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 7: A long term occupation of the IDF of Gaza would 289 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 7: be unacceptable to many, and I don't think it would 290 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 7: be in their interest. So what's going to fill the gap? 291 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 7: I think Secretary of Blinket's been talking to all our 292 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 7: partners in the region saying, you know, rhetorically, you know, 293 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 7: having opinions on this is fine, but what are we 294 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 7: actually going to do? So is there going to be 295 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 7: an international peacekeeping force? What's going to be the political 296 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 7: way ahead for the people in Gaza, the Palestinians? What 297 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 7: are we going to do to make sure that this 298 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 7: never happens again, both for the sake of Israel, of course, 299 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 7: and for the sake of the Palestinian people. And I 300 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 7: think everything that I've seen Secretary blink and saying is 301 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 7: indicating that that is really where he wants to focus 302 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 7: this how to reduce this human tragedy that's happening in 303 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 7: Gaza and eliminate Hamas and also look at what's going 304 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 7: to come next to make sure this is it doesn't 305 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 7: happen again. 306 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: Now, I make a lot of people would say Israel 307 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: has occupied Gaza for quite a long time and continue 308 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: to do to do so through October seventh. They certainly 309 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: have occupied the West Bank in a large part and 310 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: haven't honored any of the attempts at a two state solution, 311 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: not under net in Yahoo, right, So is there any 312 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: hope that they're going to do that now? Because everyone 313 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: else in the world backs a two state solution, even 314 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: the countries like the US that back Israel and send 315 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: Israel billions of dollars every year, and yet the Israelis 316 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: refused to allow the Palestinians to have their own state. 317 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 7: And the only way I could see this ever working 318 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 7: where you don't have this happen again and again is 319 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 7: a two state solution. They have essentially to your point, 320 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 7: they have direct access into the West Bank and therefore 321 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 7: occupy it. They control in and out access in Gaza. 322 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 7: They would say they didn't occupy it, which is one 323 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 7: of the reasons why they didn't know what was going. 324 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 3: On on settlements. They have checkpoints, they absolutely do. 325 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 7: Yes, I'm not disagreeing with you, but they would say 326 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 7: that they want to have troops on the ground now 327 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 7: because they don't want hamas to get reconstituted. I think 328 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 7: that would be a bad idea. That's why I think 329 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 7: Secretary of blancoln State Department of the White House is 330 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 7: rightfully talking about, well, what's the alternative is AI is 331 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 7: a caretaker type group, an international peacekeeping force that could 332 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 7: stay there until the Palestinian people select a government that 333 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 7: sets up its security, it sets up its basic life support, 334 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 7: and then of course there should be large investments from 335 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 7: a lot of the wealthy countries in the region and 336 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 7: out of the region that help rebuild Goza and turn 337 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 7: it into a place that has a future, including an 338 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 7: economic one. And I think that's what the US is 339 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 7: pushing now, and I think they should be because this 340 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 7: situation I don't see changing unless there is a two 341 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 7: state solution in which the international community is heavily involved 342 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 7: in setting up. 343 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: Are we losing sight of what's going on in Ukraine 344 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: through all this, because if the Russians win, they're push 345 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: up into NATO borders. 346 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 7: They absolutely are. And the fights still raging on in Ukraine, 347 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 7: even though it's not the first thing on the news, 348 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 7: it's still happening, and they are making incremental gains. And 349 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 7: it's really clear now that a lot of the weapons 350 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 7: systems that we provided them recently, especially the attackers the 351 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 7: long range artillery system, is having a major effect on 352 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 7: the Russian's ability to resupply both its front line troops 353 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 7: and they can reach anywhere in Ukraine now with those systems, 354 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 7: so there's no place off limits, including the Crimean peninsula, 355 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 7: so that is super important. It's also really important that 356 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 7: we get more funding to them to purchase and buy 357 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 7: ammunition because as this gets into the winter, it's going 358 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 7: to be somewhat of a war of attrition, particularly on 359 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 7: the logistical side, and the US needs to help them 360 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 7: keep up with a much larger, much broader enemy in Russia. 361 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 3: All right, Nick, thanks so much for joining us. 362 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: I always love talking to you and I really appreciate you, 363 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: know your service. I think, especially at times like this, 364 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: we should all be thankful that marines like yourself and 365 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: soldiers that defend the freedom of America are doing what 366 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: they do so that we can sleep safely. Mick Malroy 367 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: there is co founder of the Lobo Institute and a 368 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 1: senior Fellow at the Middle East Institute. 369 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 6: You're listening to the tape Catcher live program Bloomberg Markets 370 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 6: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune 371 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 6: in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 372 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 6: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 373 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 6: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 374 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: Matt Miller here with Molly Smith and the Bloomberg Interactive 375 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: Brokers Studio. 376 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 3: I want to bring in Margie Patel. 377 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: She is a senior portfolio manager at all Spring Global 378 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: Investments and we love to talk to her because she 379 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: has a great view of the stock market and also of. 380 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 3: The bond market. 381 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: Right. She was twice nominated Morning Stars Fixed Income Manager 382 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: of the Year. 383 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right, and Margy is nice to talk to 384 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 5: you again to talk when I covered the credit markets, 385 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 5: I think you were back at Wells Fargo at the time, 386 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 5: so good to see you. 387 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: Well, let's ask let's get your take on what happened yesterday, Margie, 388 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: and what we've seen in yields and how it's affecting stocks. 389 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: I mean after the auction, I mean it didn't go wrong, 390 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: but it didn't go great. Right yesterday of the thirty years, 391 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,199 Speaker 1: we saw the yields spike up and then the stock 392 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 1: market sell off. I think Powell kind of confirmed what 393 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 1: the market was thinking that maybe they're not quite done yet. 394 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 3: How do you see it? 395 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 8: Well, I think the Fed is saying a lot of 396 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 8: different things because in their whole tightening program of the 397 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 8: last year and a half, nothing is real had played 398 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 8: out the way they thought according to their playbook. As 399 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 8: far as raising rates, we haven't seen economy slow down. 400 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 8: We actually had a very nice score just reported probably 401 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 8: thinking was we would have a recession, lower stock prices. 402 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 8: It really hasn't worked out. So I think the Fed 403 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 8: is a little bit lummox because what they thought would 404 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 8: happen just hasn't happened. And I think it shows you 405 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 8: that the economy really isn't that sensitive to what the 406 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 8: fedist with interest rates. 407 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 5: Well, I think that was also a big point of 408 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 5: what Powell was saying yesterday. That he had mentioned. You know, 409 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 5: there's so many people right now in the US that 410 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,959 Speaker 5: are just so more or less interest rate agnostic, especially 411 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 5: if you're a homeowner who's already locked in a mortgage 412 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 5: rate under four percent or so. So that was definitely 413 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 5: part of what he mentioned. And I think otherwise, I mean, 414 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 5: my take on what he said yesterday, I'd love to 415 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 5: hear your perspective on this. It seemed like he just 416 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,479 Speaker 5: kind of like flip the script a little bit on 417 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 5: what he had said at last week's meeting. But last 418 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 5: week's meeting was more we're probably done, but we could 419 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 5: hike again, and yesterday was more, we could hike again, 420 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 5: but we're probably done. 421 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 8: Well, I think he's just trying to cover a broad 422 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 8: spoke of what they might do and really the market 423 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 8: is and giving them the guidance that they wanted. So 424 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 8: I think that's why they sort of sound as if 425 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 8: they're all over the map about well, maybe we'll be more, 426 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 8: maybe we're done, maybe we're not. And that really reflects 427 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 8: the fact that their playbook hasn't worked out. The economy 428 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 8: is too strong, and inflation has come down maybe more. 429 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 9: Than they expected. 430 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 8: The economies very stronger than they expected, and so we 431 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 8: haven't really seen much happen, and we haven't had interest 432 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 8: rates to really break out yesterday where it's we're up 433 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 8: today they're down, and you can see the market is 434 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 8: just not taking you might say all that talk seriously. 435 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 8: So we still have a very good stock market and 436 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 8: I think that's what we're going to see for the 437 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 8: rest of the year. 438 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: So what about the FED and it's fight against inflation? 439 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: You know, I've heard an interesting thesis in the last 440 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: couple of days that we were dealing with inflation that 441 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: had a two percent ceiling and now we're looking at 442 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: an inflation environment with a two percent floor. Of course, 443 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: we're not near that floor yet. If you take if 444 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: you're looking any of the data that the FED looks at, 445 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: how do you view the fight against inflation? 446 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 8: Well, honestly, looking at the inflation data you're seeing which 447 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 8: basically we had some short term things from COVID supply glitches, 448 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 8: but really I can't see much connection between what the 449 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 8: FED has done and what's happened to inflation. Inflation went 450 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 8: up as they began to tighten, it's come down. And 451 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 8: if you look at the factors that have caused inflation 452 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 8: to come down. I can't see very much of a 453 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 8: connection with the fed's activities. 454 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 9: So I think that the economy is going on. 455 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 8: The FED is doing their thing of raising rates, and 456 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 8: it's almost as if it's a random effect on the economy. 457 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 9: May be slight negative because there's a little. 458 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: Uncertain Well, but that sounds like that sounds like bad 459 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: news ready to happen, because the FED has raised rades 460 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: five hundred and fifty basis points. And I guess you know, 461 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: those long and variable lags are starting to hit home 462 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: right as inflation is coming down. I guess, fortunately, But 463 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: aren't we going to see a slow down in the economy. 464 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 9: Well, we really haven't. 465 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,959 Speaker 8: Seen it yet, and we've had an economy it looks okay, 466 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 8: and it looks like the fourth quarter is going to 467 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 8: be modestly positive again. And so I think if you 468 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 8: had asked the FED, where do you think the economy 469 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 8: would be? 470 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 9: I think they were looking for unemployment to. 471 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 8: Have jumped up by several million people, not to be 472 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 8: where it is, you know, the under four percent, So 473 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 8: that was their whole key in bringing down inflation. So 474 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 8: we've had very low unemployment rates, we've had inflation come down. 475 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 8: So I just conclude other factors in the world have 476 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 8: pulled inflation down. The basic strength of the US economy 477 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 8: isn't that sense of interest rates, because business and consumers 478 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 8: have taken out long term fixed rate loans and so 479 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 8: they aren't sensitive, and so the FED is really just 480 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 8: almost a bystander to what's happening in. 481 00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 9: The real economy. 482 00:23:59,000 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 5: Couldn't you say that, I. 483 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 8: In the inflation, I don't see what they've done to fight, 484 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 8: and I think they just sort of hope if they're 485 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 8: very short rates, inflation would come down. 486 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 9: It's come down up because the. 487 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 8: Short rates, but all these other factors that have come 488 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 8: into the marketplace. 489 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 5: Well, couldn't you say, then, Marget, it sounds like some 490 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 5: of the things that you've just mentioned right here between, 491 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 5: like the consumers still staying pretty strong, Like inflation is 492 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 5: coming down, granted not as fast as we might hope, 493 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 5: economy is still doing okay. Couldn't you say that that's 494 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 5: maybe the making of a soft landing. Is that how 495 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 5: you're positioning this right now? 496 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 8: Well, I think it looks like the economy. I don't 497 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 8: see anything way out of Kilder that would precipitate a recession. 498 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 8: People have been looking for recession for a long time. 499 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 8: It hasn't come. I do think though, that we've had 500 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 8: a huge lift of the economy that's come from federal spending. 501 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 8: We had the COVID money, which is still out there 502 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 8: being dispersed. 503 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 9: Being dispensed right now. 504 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 8: We've had a big increase in state and local government spending, 505 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 8: and so I think that's added a little floor to 506 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 8: what mayo seniors come down. So as we get into 507 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 8: twenty four, we may see the economy dislerat a little 508 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 8: bit because some of these money flows, particularly leftover COVID 509 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 8: Moody that spent really a big boost for consumers, may 510 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 8: stop and that may cause e Connor you slow down 511 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 8: a little. But I just don't see your recession in 512 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 8: the cars eaven for twenty four. 513 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 3: Margie. 514 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: Great to get your take. Thanks so much for joining us. 515 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: Margie Bettel there. She is a senior portfolio manager at 516 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: all Spring Global Investments, and she does not see a 517 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: recession on the horizon, even if the economy will slow 518 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: down in twenty twenty four. 519 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 6: You're listening to the tape. Can's our live program Bloomberg 520 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 521 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 6: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 522 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 6: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 523 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 6: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 524 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 10: Were welcome now on TV on radio listens, TV audience 525 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 10: and radio listeners. We need to talk about what's happening 526 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 10: in the EV space. EV maker Polestar, fresh off its 527 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 10: investor day, a day that showcased its business strategy and 528 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 10: future EV prototypes. We now welcome Thomas Ingola, Postar CEO 529 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 10: and Bloomberg's resident. It says gearhead, but electric cars don't 530 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 10: have gears, so we'll maybe part that name for now. 531 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 10: But Matt Miller joins us. Thomas, great to see you, 532 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 10: Thanks for joining us. What's the message that you are 533 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 10: sending to investors? What do you want to convey about 534 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 10: where this business goes next? 535 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 11: Yeah, good morning guy. 536 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 6: Hi Matt. 537 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 11: Well, our message here from our poster day are we 538 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 11: call it he in La. It's I think a very positive, 539 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 11: good one. 540 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 6: We have. 541 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 11: Two major parts here, one of course, the great news 542 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 11: about the product rollout, and the other part about what 543 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 11: work we have done over the last summer about the 544 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 11: business plan, obviously making that a strong resilient business plan, 545 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 11: which means clear view on the break even cashlow break 546 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 11: even twenty twenty five, So what I would call, in 547 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 11: a very short distance very much insight twenty twenty five 548 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 11: cash flow break even and the funding need that is 549 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 11: needed from today to this break even, a very clear 550 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 11: defined amount of one point three billion, which you know 551 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 11: we want to cover with a mix of debt inequity, 552 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 11: so what I would call a very manageable funding need. 553 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 11: These two are the key cornerstones of this business plan, 554 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 11: which I think everybody would acknowledge is not based on 555 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 11: dreamy fancy production numbership but really a very realistic and 556 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 11: achievabile volume. 557 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 1: Thomas, let me jump in and ask you about those 558 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: production numbers, because you've scaled back your twenty twenty three 559 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: production forecast a couple of times already. Now you expect 560 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: to make sixty thousand vehicles in total this year, but 561 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: you need to get up to I think one hundred 562 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: and fifty five thousand by twenty twenty five. 563 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 3: How are you going to make it? 564 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: Make that leap from sixty to one to fifty five 565 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: in the next couple of years. 566 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 11: Well, yesterday people were queuing to get it right along 567 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 11: in our Post three suv and and the suv coupee 568 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 11: the Post A four. Both cars are ready to go 569 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 11: out to Post A four actually has production start next week. 570 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 11: The Post for three will start production early twenty twenty four. 571 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 11: So twenty twenty four we will get these two cars 572 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 11: in our hands. Twenty five will be a year where 573 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 11: they will be fully for in the in customer delivery, 574 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 11: plus the Post of five joining so three grade coasts 575 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 11: in exclusive secment. So these two, this product lineup. Of course, 576 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 11: there's a big, big reason for our increase of volume 577 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 11: in this period. 578 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 10: Thomas, you just called your your products exclusive. What we've 579 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 10: seen today is Richemont, the owner of Cartier, warning that 580 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 10: they are seeing a significant consumer slow down at the 581 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 10: upper end. You've got the Agio warning that its premium 582 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 10: products are starting to hit price resistance. We're seeing it 583 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 10: all across the luxury sector at the moment that the 584 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 10: consumer is saying I can't afford that anymore, even the 585 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 10: upper end consumer. 586 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 3: Are you seeing any. 587 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 10: Evidence of that? Our exclusive ev product's going to face 588 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 10: the same headwinds that the rest of the luxury sector 589 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 10: might be seeing at the moment. 590 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 11: I think it's very important to that in perspective. I 591 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 11: think there's no doubt that the long term success of 592 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 11: electrification is given the only way of C two emission 593 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 11: reduction is via EV's transition from combustion engine to evs 594 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 11: IS is a clear pass forward short term economic fluctuations. 595 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 11: The industry has seen that over decades. I think the 596 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 11: real question is how resilient are you as a business 597 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 11: to go through those And I think us having presented 598 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 11: this business plan is a clear testimony of poster being 599 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 11: on the side of the winners to go through those 600 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 11: downsides and to simply be resilient enough to get out 601 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 11: as a winner in that. So for that reason, I 602 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 11: don't think there's any any question about the EV success 603 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 11: in the long term. 604 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 3: Thomas, You've just. 605 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: Talked to us about your new business plan that you 606 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: presented and said you need one point three billion dollars. 607 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: You're very specific about what you need to be cash 608 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: flow break even in twenty twenty five. You need that 609 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: externally that funding. Are you in talks with any external investors? 610 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: What kind of outside investors do you wanna Do you 611 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: want to hook up with and has anyone expressed interest. 612 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 11: Well, look, we were always very clear about the openness 613 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 11: to attract outside investors. Our two main share holders, who 614 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 11: have been and will be very supportive in in our business, 615 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 11: of course, will stay with us, but they're very willingful 616 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 11: to have others participating in the ownership of Posstoff, and 617 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 11: that's how we how we plan at. 618 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 3: So Volvo and Jilie. 619 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: Do you think the other investors could they come from China? 620 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: Are you even talks with Chinese? Other Chinese investors? 621 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 11: No real world blide pitching for this, so there's certainly 622 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 11: no preference in any regional destination where these people should 623 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 11: come from. Now we are here obviously today in the 624 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 11: US we have yours production with supposs restarting. I think 625 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 11: that is as well a very clear sign that we 626 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 11: are an international business open to international investment. 627 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 10: Thomas, you flank the fact that you have US production. 628 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 10: President Biden has within the last couple of days signaled 629 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 10: his support for the UAW to start targeting businesses like Tesla. 630 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 10: He thinks that maybe that's the next place that they 631 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,479 Speaker 10: should be looking. What do you think about your labor 632 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 10: Do you think you could be facing strikes. Do you 633 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 10: think you could be facing a union push. Do you 634 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 10: think this is going to be something that pulls in 635 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 10: the whole of the automotive sector in the United States. 636 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 11: Well, not really that much a question to us, because 637 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 11: we have a very simple way of having basically no 638 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 11: manufacturing footprint on our own. We have contact manufacturing with 639 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 11: our big partners in that obviously the Volvo factory in 640 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 11: Ritual we have production together with Chili and this is where, 641 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 11: of course this question you have now should be targeted. 642 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 11: We are very well familiar with with factories with unions. 643 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 11: We have obviously in Sweden a very strong base as 644 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 11: well with manufacturing in Volvo. So I think that's really 645 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 11: no question mark from our site onto that. 646 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: What is the pull star, you know, the unique selling 647 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: point because you know some brands Porsche is about you know, 648 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: speed in sports cars, Mercedes is about kind of luxury 649 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: and status. Volvo is about you know, safety and family. 650 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: At least for me, what is pole Star about. 651 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 11: Post Our main differentiator clearly is our design focus. It's 652 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 11: a brand with strongest design design as advanced as its technology. 653 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 11: That's our slogan and I think yesterday at our Post 654 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,439 Speaker 11: day when you see the lineup of the beautiful cast 655 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 11: and how innovation is brought to the customer through our 656 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,359 Speaker 11: design made it really desirable. I mean that is how 657 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,479 Speaker 11: we think electrification will succeed cars that really makes people 658 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 11: are passionate about And what is the greatest driver for 659 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 11: passion is clearly the design aspect of it. So if 660 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 11: you ask us to narrow it down to that one aspect, 661 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 11: it's designed. 662 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 10: Tom's great to catch up. Really appreciate you joining us 663 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 10: from Los Angeles to think of that of Polstar and 664 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 10: of course our thanks to Bloomberg's Matt Miller. 665 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 5: All right, well, if you just us here, you are 666 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 5: just listening to Matt Miller and Guy Johnson, they were 667 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 5: interviewing the CEO of pole Star and bad. I believe 668 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,879 Speaker 5: that you've driven a Polestar recently show us two. 669 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, So, I mean I drove the Polestar. 670 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,839 Speaker 1: One was I think, really amazing from a design perspective. 671 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: It checked every box and it was cool in that 672 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: it was a hybrid and it had manually adjustable Olan's suspension. 673 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 3: That's something you don't see in cars these days. Two. 674 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: I don't really it's not terribly luxurious, It's not over engineered, 675 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: and it's fifty thousand dollars in white, so it's a concern. 676 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 5: Does it have that car play feature that you were 677 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 5: asking our good John Tucker about it. 678 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: You can use car play, but you have to plug 679 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: it in, so it doesn't have wireless car play. And 680 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: it's made in China, so I think they're going to 681 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: have difficulty selling that vehicle in this country. You know, 682 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: Chinese cars that come in here are subject to a 683 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: twenty seven and a half percent tariff, so they can't 684 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: beat anybody on pricing. But it'll be interesting to see 685 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: the three that'll be built here in the US and 686 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: South Carolina. As he's saying, the Pollstar four is going 687 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: to be built in Korea, and then they're going to 688 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: have another car, so it'll be interesting to see how 689 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: they do with the Swedish slash Chinese ownership. 690 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 5: Yeah all right, well that's something fun to consider going forward. 691 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 5: So thanks you and guy for talking and for bringing 692 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 5: us that interview. 693 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can 694 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever 695 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. 696 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:42,760 Speaker 3: I'm Matt Miller. 697 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three and 698 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:47,240 Speaker 1: I Fall Sweeney. 699 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 2: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney before the podcast. You 700 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 2: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio