1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff. 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: I never told your production of I Heart Radio. So, Samantha, 3 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: we have been talking a lot about romance during this 4 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: February month, and in fact, we've had recent episodes on 5 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: women in Romance that had to become a two parter 6 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: because we had so much to say, so much to say, 7 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: and there's a lot more that could be said. In fact, 8 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: I know that you like rom commes. Have you kind 9 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: of always liked them? I think I do gravitate towards them, 10 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: but I don't know if I've always always liked them. 11 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: There's definitely hits and misses, and as I've gotten older, 12 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: I've watched less and less, but definitely I had the 13 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: classics that I would worked back to ye from like 14 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: a young age. Uh. I'm trying to think, because I mean, 15 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 1: if you look at like young stories or teen stories, 16 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: there's a lot of like romance ish Like in the 17 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: Green Gables one of my favorite movies, technically romance. They 18 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: grow up together. It's a coming of age story, but 19 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 1: it's her and Gilbert, you know, like like whether he 20 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: teases her throughout and then as she's an adult trying 21 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: to find that and in the second one, she has 22 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 1: his whirlwind romance with a very debonair you know, upper 23 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: class dude. Mm hmmm, so yeah, I mean, I guess 24 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: that's a romance. But it's one of my favorite movies. 25 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: Princess Ride always in one of my favorite movies, So 26 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: I guess. So yeah. And if you look at all 27 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: the Disney cartoons, yes that is true. We didn't really 28 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: talk about that, but a lot of the things we 29 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: grew up on in the in terms of those Disney 30 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: fairy sales, are romances. Uh uh huh. Well, yeah, I 31 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: don't really have that much experience with these things that 32 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: we talked about, but on this show we have discussed 33 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: at length, and in fact, past host Kristen and Caroline 34 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: did a four part series on rom comms and some 35 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: of the troops in them and some of the more 36 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: problematic troops in them, and we've rerun some of those already, 37 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: but if you want to go listen to them, they're 38 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: out there, and we want to rerun a classic episode 39 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: on black romantic comedies, So please enjoy. Welcome to Stuff 40 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, 41 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, 42 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: and this is part four of our series on romantic comedies, 43 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: and today we're gonna bust a rom comm myth that 44 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: only white people fall in love. Who knew? Who knew? Yeah, 45 00:02:55,440 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: we're looking at rom coms of color, you could call them, 46 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: really focusing though on black romantic comedies. And one of 47 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: the most stunning things to realize in reading for this episode, Caroline, 48 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: is how romantic comedies are one of, if not the 49 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: most segregated genres in Hollywood. Oh yeah, for sure, it's 50 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: it's romantic comedies starring black people are hardly marketed to 51 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: the white audience because so many people in Hollywood at 52 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: the executive level just assume that white audiences will not 53 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: be interested. But it creates that horrific loop of like, oh, well, 54 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: they're not marketing it to us, so I never developed 55 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: an interest in it, so I'm never gonna go see it, 56 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: And that just reinforces the executives assumptions that, oh, we'll 57 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: see larger audiences aren't going to go see these quote 58 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: unquote black romantic comedies, whereas rom coms starring white people, 59 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: of course, are not called white raw comms. They're called 60 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: mainstream right white people. Yes, white people are referred to 61 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: as mainstream audiences. Yeah. I mean even though, and this 62 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: is a whole other tangent that we don't really need 63 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: to get into. But if you just look at the 64 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: per capita ticket sales of who goes to see movies, 65 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: African Americans and Latinos per capita like by far more 66 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: movie tickets than so called mainstream audiences. So the whole 67 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: you know, all these marketing arguments I think are a 68 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: bit of a stretch sometimes. Um. But if we even 69 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: look at inter racial rom comms or romances, because some 70 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: of these movies were going to talk about kind of 71 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: straddle that line between rom com or just straight up romance. Um. 72 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: But even today, inter racial films, inter racial romances, whether 73 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: comedic or not, are considered taboo. Yah. Um. And I 74 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: think a good way to get into this conversation is 75 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: if we go to a Jet magazine piece from nineteen 76 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: ninety that really spelled out this issue. Um, it was 77 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: called why Blacks don't get romantic roles in movies? So 78 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: it's been years since I've seen Guess Who's coming to 79 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: dinner with Sydney Portier. Also, I can't remember the lead 80 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: actress's name, but her parents are played by Katherine Hepburn 81 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: and Spencer Tracy, classic romcom couple. So it's such a 82 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: great movie. But Sydney Portier was not permitted. His character 83 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: was not permitted to kiss, touch, caress, hug anything his fiancee. Yeah. 84 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: So that goes all the way back to the Hollywood Code, 85 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: I think enacted in four an anti missig nation rule, 86 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: essentially saying that people who do not have the same 87 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: skin color can not caress or kiss um. And this 88 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: was one reason, as we talked about in our episode 89 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: on the stereotyping and exotic sizing of Asian women, one 90 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: reason why a silver screen actress, Annime Wong was never 91 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: really able to break through and get all these leading 92 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: roles because per Hollywood rules, she could never kiss a 93 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: white man on screen. Yeah. So that was the Haze 94 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: Code that we talked about in our first episode. And 95 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: the reason that those uh like segregated couples rules ended 96 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: up embedded in the Haze Code was that the majority 97 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: of states in this country still had those antimsigenation laws 98 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: and so they weren't going to have their movies breaking 99 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: state laws, i e. They wanted to make as much 100 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: money as they possibly could, and if they risked showing 101 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: a movie in a state that would be against that, 102 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: then they'd lose money. And it's for that reason that 103 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: in the film Fatal Beauty, Whoopie Goldberg claimed that love 104 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: scene between her and co star Sam Elliott was cut 105 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: because of studio racism, because it would be too racy 106 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: to show those two having sex. But she made the 107 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: great point in that article. She was quoted in that 108 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: Job Magazine article is saying if he had put money 109 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: on the table at the end of our sexual encounter, 110 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: they would have left the clip in which is such 111 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: an indictment of Hollywood racism, but so true, so accurate 112 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: to people who just are attracted to each other having sex, 113 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: that's not okay if they're of a different race. But 114 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: oh if it were a prostitution scene, like we'll let 115 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: a black lady have sex with a white dude, well, 116 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: and even if it is, you know, two people of 117 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: color having sex. Willis Edwards, who was the former president 118 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: of the Beverly Hills a c P chapter, told Jet 119 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: Magazine that Hollywood has never wanted us to have love interests. 120 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: They feel it won't sell in Peoria or in Mississippi 121 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: were looked upon as comedians, not as p bowl who 122 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: have families and intimacy. Yeah, and we saw that, you know, 123 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: in our last episode on Sidekicks, that you get the 124 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: token black character who's typically two dimensional, some kind of 125 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: either sassy woman or spiritual guide of some kind, rather 126 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: than getting the actual three dimensional character treatment. Yeah. And 127 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: it was actually for that reason that Spike Lee made 128 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: the films Is She's Got to Have It in nine 129 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: nineties Mobida Blues because he figured that the only way 130 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: to change that situation was to just make the films 131 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: that he wanted to see. Um. And of course there 132 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: are black romantic comedies, there are black romances, um. But 133 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: the the segregation of the whole thing is really it's 134 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: just stunning to be over and over again because before 135 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: reading up for this episode and I am about to 136 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: show my whiteness, I'm even wearing a white button down 137 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: dress listeners, which is appropriate because I was not aware 138 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: of the depth and critical range of the black rom 139 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: com cannon that exists. And it's because when I had 140 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: been seeing, you know, showing those movies, it's like, oh, well, 141 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: those that's a black rom com. Okay, it's like we 142 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: we grow up you and are are white women. We 143 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: probably did not grow up watching black romantic comedies. Um. 144 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: In the same way, I have a feeling that there 145 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: are plenty of you know, women of color who are like, yeah, 146 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: I didn't grow up watching notting Hill and my best 147 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: friend's wedding. Um. But this episode for me was a 148 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: revelation in just how just how racist Hollywood is. Yeah. 149 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: I mean the only black romance I grew up watching 150 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: was how stelic At a groove Back, which is I 151 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: would not classify that as a rom com. But but 152 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: I think romance in this com vote though. Some romances 153 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: are going to count just because those kinds of movies 154 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: are so significant. Because hel Stella got her groove Back 155 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: definitely crossed into quote unquote mainstream audiences, right exactly. You're 156 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: the mainstream Caroline, Little Caroline. I'm the mainstream now dog. Um, 157 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: And so it makes sense that the roots. Kelly Goff 158 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: was super not happy. But when she saw New York 159 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: Magazine's list of the top twenty five rom coms that 160 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: had come out since when Harry met Sally and saw 161 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: that it didn't contain a single black lead film, and 162 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: not only did it not contain a single black lead 163 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: romantic comedy, but the reasoning for that that was provided 164 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: by the two white guy critics who wrote the list 165 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: is so ridiculous and and Goff appropriately skewers them for this. 166 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: So they basically said, or they did say, quote their movies, 167 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: this list needs. We have a couple of LGBT rom 168 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: coms on there, but we wish there could be more. 169 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: And while African American rom coms, as exemplified in films 170 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: like The Best Man in Waiting to Exhale and About 171 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: Last Night have thrived during this time, we couldn't agree 172 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: on any titles we felt were strong enough to warrant 173 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: inclusion on this list. And Golf is like, are you 174 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: kidding me? It never occurred to you, Uh, two white 175 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: guys who were like, I don't know how to pick 176 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: a black rom com, So I'm just not going to 177 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: talk about to maybe ask a woman or a person 178 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: of color for ideas. Yeah, um, or consider the fact 179 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: that maybe maybe just one Adam Sandler Drew Barrymore rom 180 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: com is enough, because No, Fifty First States is not 181 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: one of the best rom coms that has come out ever. 182 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: Since when Harry Met maybe one of the worst movies. 183 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: They also listed her, which feels like a stretch, and 184 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: also I Love You Philip Morris, which again it's like, okay, 185 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: in what way is her a better rom com than 186 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: The Best Man? Which, yes, listeners, I spent this weekend 187 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: watching The Best Man and The Best Man Holiday, and 188 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: let me tell you what a delight both of them were. 189 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: Because A. T. Diggs does follow suff I've never told 190 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: you on Twitter, and I kept just wanting to tweet 191 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: him how much I was really enjoying his film because 192 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: you just get to see day Diggs shirtless a lot, 193 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: but also Morris chestnut shirtless a lot. Um, there's just 194 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: a lot of really uh really handsome chests and jawlines 195 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: and those movies. But um, my objectifying, my sexual objectifying aside, 196 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: they were just really enjoyable ensemble films. Um, so yeah, 197 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: just seeing seeing that was they I mean, the fact 198 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 1: that there were no black lead rom coms in this list, 199 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: Like I said, it's bad enough, but to come out 200 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: and say, like, don't you hear yourself talking? Is my 201 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: question to these gentlemen, Like don't you hear the words 202 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: that you just said? Why don't you ask someone or 203 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: go watch them? Well, and it perpetuates the myth that 204 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: there are no good black rom com Yeah. Well, and 205 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: also it just perpetuates the point of view of the 206 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: white man being the norm, being the standard, because yeah, 207 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: like maybe they Okay, so maybe these guys did watch 208 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: a bunch of black lead romantic comedies. But if your 209 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: baseline for what is normal, good, funny, whatever, is only 210 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: ever going to be Matthew McConaughey and Kate Hudson, like, 211 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: maybe maybe it's time to as critics and just as 212 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,439 Speaker 1: consumers of media to broaden your horizon. Well, and a 213 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: lot of it speaks to just the marginalization of black 214 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: lead films, which is something that we've talked about before. 215 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: In our episode it on black female film directors. Shout 216 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: out to Gina Blythe Prince in Love and Basketball by 217 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: the Way, which I also watched, Um, And I will 218 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: get to it in a second, Caroline, because I have 219 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: a lot of thoughts, um, But I have a feeling 220 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: there is this mainstream notion that black comedy is exclusive 221 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: only to Tyler Perry today, and that it is comedy 222 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: that is inaccessible and unrelatable to white audiences and is 223 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: um and and that is as good as it gets, 224 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: which really couldn't be farther from the truth, especially when 225 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: we're talking about classic rom coms, because surprise, surprise, other 226 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: white listeners. If we look at the mainstream heyday, the 227 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: white heyday of rom comms, starting with when Harry Met 228 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: Sally and into the nineties, you have a similar kind 229 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: of heyday happen ing in black lead rom coms as well, 230 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: or just some more rom with a little bit of 231 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: calm but more rom Yeah. And so you know, when 232 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: Harry met Sally came out launches the nineties modern neo 233 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: romantic comedy. A year before that, though, you have one 234 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: of my favorite romantic comedies in the world, Night Coming 235 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: to America with Eddie Murphy and his sidekick Arseneo Hall. 236 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: So good. It's got the it's the full I mean, 237 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: it's a full romantic comedy. It's got the happy ending, 238 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: it's got the the masquerade, the deception. Uh. And it's 239 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: a it's absolutely a black lead film. And see why 240 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: then is Coming to America, which I agree is absolutely hilarious. Um, 241 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: it's peak Eddie Murphy. Um. Why is that not in 242 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: those lists that are all over the Internet. I don't know, 243 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: because it's literally it fulfills just about every trope for 244 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: better worse that there is that's discussed in all the 245 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: rom com academia. I think it's because we have this 246 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: idea that a romantic comedy is inherently a white film. 247 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: I would agree, And you can have a white comedian 248 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: in a romantic comedy leading role and it's still a 249 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: mainstream romantic comedy. But you have a black comedian leading 250 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: a black lead romantic comedy and it becomes like a 251 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: black comedy or just a just a comedy rather than 252 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: what it is, which is a true romantic comedy. Well, 253 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: in one of those classics of the black lead rom 254 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: coms that I could not find anywhere on the Internet 255 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: to watch, which I'm really disappointed about, is Love Jones 256 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: from because it's sited over and over and over again 257 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: as the holy grail of black rom coms. Um, but 258 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: I couldn't find it listeners. I to be honest with you, 259 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: so I have not seen it. Um. But I did 260 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: watch The Best Man and of course then I had 261 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: to watch the follow up, The Best Man Holiday, um, 262 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: and also watched Love and Basketball and with all of these. 263 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: You see this uh familiar cast of romcom leads in 264 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: the same way that you see the uh Meg Ryan's 265 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: and Julia Roberts and Hugh Grants of White films with 266 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: Sna Lathan, Nil Long, Gabrielle Union, Morris Chestnut again, Ta Digs, 267 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: Ta Diggs forever? Um, are you gonna get that tattooed? H? Well, 268 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: you know what, after watching The Best Man The Best 269 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: Man Holiday, Um, if I had to play um uh 270 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: bang Mary kill with Morris Chestnuts, take Diggs and Terence Howard. Um, 271 00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: I I think I would, Oh man, I would want 272 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: to look at Morris Chestnut for a really long time 273 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: and then but did I'd have to kill him and 274 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: then I would sleep with Tegg. But I would marry 275 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: Terence Howard. Yeah. I mean he's like he's he's the 276 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: bad boy in both of those films. Um, but Christina 277 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: wants did you hear that world? Kristin wants to marry 278 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: the bad boys. I mean he's just like he's just 279 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: got a certain charm um that that I really enjoyed. 280 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: And there was an interview over at indie Wire with 281 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: the director of Um of the Best Man, who was 282 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,479 Speaker 1: talking about how it's funny to him that it's always 283 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: categorized as a rom com, because he was like, no, 284 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: this isn't so much a rom com. It's just an 285 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: ensemble film for me. But simply because of how white Hollywood, 286 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: you know, so like narrowly interprets black film. Um, it's 287 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: it's got to be a romantic comedy because there is 288 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: some comedy in it and some rom and some rom 289 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: and plenty of calm remedy. Yes, well, Kristen, the year 290 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: after The Best Man came out in two thousand, you 291 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: get Love and Basketball and you said that there was 292 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: more you had to say about that. Oh I got 293 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: so much to say. So Love and Basketball stars sinal 294 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: Athan and also um Alfrey Woodard, Omar Epps all star cast, 295 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: and it's a coming of age story, which I love. 296 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: And it's also Caroline one of the most feminist films 297 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: I have ever seen, hands down, from the get go. 298 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: It does play on some tropes of the sporty girl 299 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: gets a makeover from her sister and you know, catches 300 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 1: the neighbor boy's eye because suddenly it's like, you know, 301 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: the the librarian taking her hair down kind of moment. 302 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: But Monica sinal Athan's character is so self possessed from 303 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: the get go, knowing that not only is she good 304 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: at basketball, that she is better than the boys at basketball, 305 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: and she's so regularly focused on her drive. She doesn't 306 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: care about looking pretty, she doesn't care about, you know, 307 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: all of these other girls who are trying to, you know, 308 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: hook up with her neighbor who she's secretly in love with, 309 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: played by Omar Epps Um. And there's just all of 310 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: these really fascinating relationships too, between Omar Epps and his father, 311 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 1: who is a retired professional basketball player, but also Monica 312 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: and her mother, who is a stay at home mom, 313 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: who have a lot of tension between them because she's 314 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: not conventionally like girly enough, you know. But it turns 315 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: out her mom thinks that she doesn't have respect for her, 316 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: you know, as a stay at home mother. And they're 317 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: just like, I don't know, they're they're all these feminist 318 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: themes that come up, and and a lot of conversations 319 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: that felt very familiar as just a girl who has 320 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: grown up um and a lot of themes that we've 321 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: talked about on stuff mom ever told you before, And 322 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: it just so happened that it started an all black cast. Yeah, 323 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 1: feminist is not normally a word you hear thrown around 324 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: when people are discussing romantic comedies. No, not at all, 325 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: not at all, um. And that's why I, honestly, Caroline, 326 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: I wanted to call you so many times as I 327 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: was watching it, but it was a Saturday, and uh, 328 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: because because I wanted that should be a movie that 329 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: we perhaps live podcast or tweet or mystery Science Theater 330 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: three thousand. It's somehow because I want to watch it 331 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,360 Speaker 1: with you, to share this movie with you, because I 332 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: really love it so much. We get some popcorn, hang out, 333 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: some sodas, some sodas and checks. Yes. Um. So in 334 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: addition to that, of course, you have classics like two 335 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: thousand twos Black Sugar, you have waiting to exhale two 336 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: can play it that game the Wood. I also last 337 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: night I tried to watch Boomerang from Eddie Murphy also 338 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:11,479 Speaker 1: Eddie Murphy Young Chris Brown, Young Halle Berry, and I 339 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: could not. I couldn't. I couldn't do it. I couldn't 340 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: do it. Um, I switched. Actually, definitely not a feminist film. 341 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, um it was. I bet it 342 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: has a little bit of payoff more towards the end, 343 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 1: but there is only so much of Eddie Murphy as 344 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: a womanizer that I could take. Although it also um 345 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: co stars Eartha Kit who does do her signature catwoman 346 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: growl at one point, which was enjoyable. But yeah, coming 347 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: to America much better than Boomerang, so much better. But 348 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: the interesting thing is, oh, speaking of our last rom 349 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: com series episode on Sidekicks, that's a movie where kind 350 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: of like when Harry met Sally two Sidekicks, David Allen 351 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: Greer and Hallie Berry end up getting together. Does that 352 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: further the plot? Caroline, I didn't get far enough. I couldn't. 353 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you I hadn't. I've literally switched over 354 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: to uh to white Ville on Netflix watching Lady Dynamites 355 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: during white Ville. Isn't Lady Dynamite good? It's pretty good 356 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,959 Speaker 1: so far. We'll have to do another episode on that. 357 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: We won't. We won't be talking about that, but uh. 358 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: In our introductory episode to this summer series, Ntreamented Comedies, 359 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: we did mention the film Meet the Patels, which is 360 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,239 Speaker 1: it's more like of a documentary style. It's it's not 361 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: straight rom com but we bring that up to illustrate 362 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: that there are so few romantic comedy esque films out there. 363 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 1: I mean, let alone for a black audience, but like, 364 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: let's talk about how Indian audiences are not exactly represented. 365 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: Asian audiences in general are not very well represented when 366 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: it comes to romantic comedies. But I would love to 367 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 1: see Meet the Patels from Jada Patel follows her brother 368 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: Robbie on his exploits to find the love of his life, 369 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: although it's more his parents finding the life. Yeah, yes, 370 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: arranged marriage. Um. In two thousand four, there was sort 371 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: of a Bollywood Hollywood mash up remake of Pride and 372 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: Prejudice called Bride and Prejudice, which also sounds like something 373 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: I need to watch immediately. Um. You also have twenty 374 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: thirteens for Is this the first Asian American rom com? 375 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: Yes in this country obviously, and we should say that 376 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: we're talking about there are like no other rom com 377 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: starring people of color made in Hollywood and right, yes, 378 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 1: that is a good thing to specify. Yes, this is 379 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: very very Hollywood and US specific. Although I believe Bride 380 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: and Prejudice was made in the UK, but it's still 381 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: counted in the list because part of it took place 382 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: in the US. Yes, they traveled to U. They also 383 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: travel to England, so there's a lot of like globe 384 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: hopping going on. So I love traveling. We'll traveling panes. Yes. Um. 385 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: But yeah the week at the Wedding Palace, which doesn't 386 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: look great. But a lot of the commenters on that 387 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: website that we were reading defended it, saying that the author, 388 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: being a white person, just didn't have the same like 389 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: contextual information about Korean rom comms and culture to appreciate it. Yeah, 390 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: and for fans of Margaret Show, she does have a 391 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: cameo role in that. Um. And you're right. It was 392 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: critically panned, which is a bummer because it was at 393 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: least marketed as the first Asian American rom com. And 394 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: there are parts of it look really enjoyable, um, but 395 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: also parts of it that make it look tough to 396 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: get through. They're like, almost one too many twists. It 397 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: seems like, well to m Night Shamalani, but romantic and funny. 398 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 1: It exactly a little to uh rom com shamalan Nice. 399 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: We're coining all sorts of things all over the place, 400 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: But one thing that jumped out in contemporary conversations around 401 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: Hollywood and rom coms is the question of whether the 402 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: genre itself is dying. For instance, in Vulture, over in 403 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: New York Magazine wanted to know whether the rom com 404 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: could even be saved from breaking up due to Hollywood 405 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: financing more blockbusters instead of one offs, because those big 406 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: Michael Bay blockbusters end up making more money internationally, so 407 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: they're more enticing. You also have just the formula itself 408 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: being a little bit stale because of the rising age 409 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: of marriage, the dating landscape being completely disrupted by technology, 410 00:26:53,440 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 1: and millennials being arguably more concerned about ourselves than finding 411 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: someone else to make us happily ever after, because it's like, 412 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: I mean, if we can post the right thing on 413 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: Instagram and go viral, like wow, why do we need 414 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: someone else? It's the era of self care. It's perfectly put. Yes, um, 415 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: but I mean certain certain things, Kristen are being ignored 416 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: in the conversation about rom coms going bust, and that 417 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: is the fact. Well, it's related to what you said 418 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: at the top of the podcast, with black audiences and 419 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: Hispanic audiences in this country paying per capita a ton 420 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: to go to the theater. That Vulture piece from twelve 421 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: pointed out that that year's highest grossing romantic comedy was 422 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 1: Kevin Harts Think Like a Man, which raked in nine million, 423 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: but they said, quote never truly broke out beyond its 424 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: predominantly African American target audience. But that's one of the 425 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: most marginalizing statements you could make about Think Like a Man, which, yes, 426 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: was based on the Steve Harvey book I Think Like 427 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,719 Speaker 1: a Man. Take him my head um, because to brush 428 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: it aside simply because a lot of people of color 429 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 1: came out to the theater to see it says a 430 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: lot about the problem that Hollywood is in, not the 431 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: problem that the rom com genre is. In my mind, 432 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: because that ninety one million dollar box office Caroline knocked 433 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 1: Hunger Games off its top spot. Yeah, So the fact 434 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: that you have a film that is bringing in so 435 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: much money, it is so successful, why do you care 436 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: who's going to see it? Like you should just be 437 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: noting how much money it's bringing in and it is 438 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: therefore successful. But somehow it's discounted because it's bringing in 439 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: an audience that's made made up largely people of color. 440 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense Hollywood. If we've learned anything 441 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: doing this podcast, one of the things that we've learned 442 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: is that Hollywood will fund the stuff that brings in money. 443 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: But is this an exception or I mean the dynamics 444 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: here are so confusing. I mean, well, it's all part 445 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: of cyclical marginalization based on this Hollywood idea that and 446 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: and and true to some extent that white people will 447 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: not go to see movies with black people, like those 448 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: stories are not for us, you know. And also there's 449 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: with that the snobbery of like, I mean those kinds 450 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: of movies, those aren't those aren't very good movies. Why 451 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,479 Speaker 1: would we want to go see something like that? And 452 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: this is something that Indiana University telecom professor Andrew Jay 453 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: Weaver explored in the study the role of Actors Race 454 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: in White audiences selective exposure to movies. In other words, 455 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: Dr Weaver was looking at, you know, if if we 456 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: see too many people with dark skin on screen, will 457 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: white people just up and flee? And Weaver rights, it 458 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: becomes a vicious cycle. Producers are hesitant to cast minorities 459 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: and race neutral romantic roles be because of a fear 460 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: that the white audience will perceive the films as not 461 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: for them. But white audiences perceived romantic films with minorities 462 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: as not for them because they seldom see minorities in 463 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: race neutral romantic roles. And so then Hollywood get scared 464 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: about creating these, uh movies led by people of color, unless, 465 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: for instance, it's a known quantity, like a bankable star 466 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: Will Smith, A Whitney Houston. God, Whitney Houston in movies 467 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,959 Speaker 1: is my favorite thing. I mean, I know, The Bodyguard 468 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: is a rom dram, not a rom com, but I 469 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: mean you've got that, You've got Waiting to exhale, You've 470 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: got the Preacher's wife. Oh god, what about Denzel? Has 471 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: Denzel starred in a rom com opposite a white female? 472 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: I don't think so, I don't know, but I mean 473 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: he's definitely like a mega movie star. He had that 474 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: He was the star in that admittedly terrible and not 475 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: because of him, but that airplane movie where he was 476 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: like the drunk pilot where and that's what it was called. Yeah, 477 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: which is totally I mean a huge movie star role 478 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: for for anyone. But um, yeah, I mean, I when 479 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: Hollywood does finally step on that step out on that 480 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: ledge it has to be with an actor actress who's 481 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: proven him or herself usually in music. Because you've also 482 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: got Queen Latifa, who's who's been successful in films, but 483 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: she's also been successful in music first. Same with Will 484 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: Smith saying with Whitney Houston well in j Lo Queen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 485 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: But there's so much more significance to this than just 486 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: Hollywood box office numbers, because this really is something we 487 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: should care about it because at their love and basketball best, 488 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: these are stories that we all of us need to see, 489 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: especially here in the United States, I would argue, because 490 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: there are stories of how black people love and that's 491 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: something that Chevandra Harris wrote about over at the Huffington's Post. Yeah, 492 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: I mean Harris refers to this as an overlooked aspect 493 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: of black culture. I mean, you know, Hunter Harris, writing 494 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: for anywyre In wrote that, you know, we've got slave 495 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: drama after slave drama coming out, and that's good. We 496 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: can't forget these things. We need the visibility of films 497 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: like Selma or Birth of a Nation absolutely, and that 498 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: gives roles to black actors, But like, where are the 499 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: films just showing us as as people? Normal people? Who 500 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: live normal lives and fallen and out of love like 501 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: anyone else. Yeah. Um, Chavandra Harris and that huff Pope 502 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: piece wrote with well rounded characters, big city backdrops, in 503 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: the perfect blend of drama, sex and comedy. They managed 504 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: to brilliantly capture the joyous pains and complexities and uniqueness 505 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: of Black men and women falling in, out and over love. 506 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: And that's so much contrast the kind of roles that 507 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: the Film Academy recognizes people of color for. And I 508 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: think it was Hunter Harris over at Indy Wier who 509 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: tallied up that nine of the ten black women ever 510 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: nominated for an OSCAR played a character who was either 511 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: homeless or on the verge of homelessness, and that thirteen 512 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: the twenty black OSCAR nominated actors played characters who had 513 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: been arrested. And more recently, I remember, I think it 514 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: was right after Sundance, when maybe it was Birth of 515 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: a Nation whatever. The Nat Turner um biopic that's coming 516 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: out received all of these rave reviews, and the sentiment 517 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: on Twitter was ya, because it's like, Okay, yes, these 518 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: are stories that need to be told, but can we 519 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: be shown as more than slaves please, um, And a 520 00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: lot of this perpetuates the other ring of black relationships 521 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: and that kind of ordinary and extraordinary black love that 522 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: Hivandra Harris loves to see so much on screen. Um. 523 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,720 Speaker 1: And this is going back to Hunter Harris at Indy 524 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 1: Wier who says that black relationships should be visible enough 525 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: to be ordinary and not always have happy endings. You 526 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: should be able to have a black Annie Hall or 527 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: a black five d Days of Summer. Um. That was 528 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 1: me adding that in there not Hunter Harris. Um. Although 529 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: who would the black Woody Allen be answer, I don't 530 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,280 Speaker 1: want to know, because we don't need another Woody Allen Boom. 531 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: Harris goes on to say, there's no monolithic blackness, and 532 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: there ought to be more movies that appreciate that black 533 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: lives don't only matter, but contain multitudes. Black characters with 534 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 1: full romantic lives don't always need to end in a 535 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: punch line. And that's one of the reasons too, that 536 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: we are citing some more straight up ROMs than just 537 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: rom coms in this episode, and we're gonna look at 538 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: more of these tripe and formulas and caricature outlines that 539 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: exist in these romantic comedies. When we come right back 540 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: from a quick break, so Caroline, before we crack open, uh, 541 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: this genre. I want to make a note that of 542 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: the rom com scholarship that you and I have been loving, 543 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: a lot of them completely gloss over black romantic comedies. Yeah, 544 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: there was one paper that I could find, no two papers, 545 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: excuse me. There was one paper and one thesis that 546 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: I could find really examining black lead romantic comedies, even 547 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: in like the books, the full the books, fully published 548 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: hundreds of pages books, searching through them for citations and 549 00:35:53,560 --> 00:36:00,080 Speaker 1: explorations of the black rom com genre. Because do you 550 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: to the segregation of it, I would um describe it 551 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: as its own genre. There's nothing, there's like no acknowledgement. 552 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, you get so much scholarship on the 553 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: screwball era, the sex comedy era, and then as we 554 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,760 Speaker 1: get into the seventies and eighties, like the nervous romances 555 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,240 Speaker 1: and the like neo romantic comedy all starring white people, 556 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,879 Speaker 1: completely ignoring that there is the parallel existence and flourishing 557 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: of black lead romantic comedies. Yeah, and like no history 558 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: that I could find, and listeners, if you, I know, 559 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: we have a lot of cinema buffs listening. If you 560 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: do know of a solid history of black rom coms, 561 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: please send it our way. I mean, you know, every 562 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: every black character that you had in the era of Screwball, 563 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,439 Speaker 1: for instance, I mean the women were maids, the men 564 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: were like, if they were not some sort of servant 565 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: role character, they were going to be some like horrific 566 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: a trophy racist sidekick um who did nothing but allow 567 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 1: the main white character to make fun of him. So, yeah, 568 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: I would also be interested in a more academic take 569 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: on African Americans in romcom history. Yeah. One of the 570 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: earliest black lead rom coms that I could find discussed 571 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: at any length was nineteen seventy four's Claudine, starring Diane 572 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: Carroll and James Earl Jones Um, which people today take 573 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: issue with because it very much perpetuates the welfare queen 574 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 1: type of stereotype. But I couldn't find, yeah, any any 575 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: explanation or exposition on how more of those came to be, 576 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: because it seems like then from there, the nineteen seventy 577 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: four From there you get Eddie Murphy, who becomes so 578 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: popular that he can start making his own films, and 579 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: then you get Spike Lee. It's like, I guess maybe 580 00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 1: it is the Spike Lee school of thought of like, well, 581 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: we just have to start making the films that we 582 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 1: want to see us in them. Yeah, And I mean 583 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: you do have Gregory Hines in there. You have that 584 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 1: quote from him that you sent me where he said, 585 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: when I got to be fifteen or sixteen years old, 586 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: I noticed that I wasn't represented. There weren't any black 587 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: people up there making love. That's from that Jet magazine article. 588 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,760 Speaker 1: And I guess, yeah, I mean, I unless people can 589 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: can give us some more info, it does seem like 590 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 1: it's an issue of we've got to get these things 591 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: made ourselves. Well. It's very reflective of our conversation about 592 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 1: black female directors and filmmakers who are continually shut down 593 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: by the big machine Hollywood and just have to kind 594 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: of self fund um and indie make their films. But 595 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: thankfully we do have Karen Boudre of Indiana University, who 596 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:55,760 Speaker 1: is a semiologist who has analyzed in depth the black 597 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: rom com genre, and she looked at how the typical 598 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,319 Speaker 1: boy meat s girl, boy loses girl and then does 599 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: everything he can to regain the girl or girl regang 600 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: guy formula is often readjusted in black lead films, starting 601 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,959 Speaker 1: with meat cutes. Those are not usually seen as much 602 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 1: in black rom coms because a lot of times the 603 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: romantic relationships are already established when we meet those leads, 604 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: so there isn't a ton of the development of the 605 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: falling in love necessarily and where so many of the 606 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: romantic comedy trips that we've discussed previously have revolved around 607 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: the withholding of sex, sex being this abstract future thing 608 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: that we never see, but that creates all of this 609 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: delicious tension. Bodre writes about how sex commonly either has 610 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: already happened in the black rom com couple's existence, or 611 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,840 Speaker 1: it's something that happens like on the first date. We 612 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: also tend to see less emotional vulnerability from leading ladies, 613 00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: who are often tougher than her white counterpart arts and 614 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: to that point, Black Hollywood producer Rodney Barnes, who has 615 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 1: made The Boondocks and Everybody Hates Chris, told I believe 616 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,399 Speaker 1: it was the l a times that quote women are 617 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:16,279 Speaker 1: painted as problematic and undesirable characters only seeking helpmates to 618 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,840 Speaker 1: raise their child, and all their male counterpart has to 619 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,800 Speaker 1: do is be sexy with no intelligence or moral values. 620 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: He simply has to take his shirt off, glisten, and 621 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,839 Speaker 1: wait for the end credits. So it sounds like we 622 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: have some some issues here with this kind of rom 623 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 1: com formula, which Professor Boadrey says is really the long 624 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: shadow of racism being reflected on screen because we have 625 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 1: seen historically the comical devaluing and hyper sexualizing of black bodies. 626 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: So as a result, Boadre writes that, quote, black characters 627 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: are denied mature relationships that are culture revers and thus 628 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 1: the access such relation and ships bring to achieving heroic 629 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: or human status. And that's a pretty like grim portrayal 630 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: of things. Um. There are some who just think that 631 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 1: this different type of rom com formula that we're likelier 632 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,280 Speaker 1: to see in black lad films just more accurately reflects 633 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 1: how people of color approach dating and love a little 634 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 1: bit differently. Um, But especially when you do look at, um, 635 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: the stereotypes that pop up in a lot of black 636 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: rom comms and the type of calm that you find 637 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: in the rom and the ratio of calm to rom 638 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 1: to dram to dram. Uh, it's hard to argue against, 639 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 1: you know, bo Boudre's theory that there is that long 640 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 1: shadow of racism, as she calls it, on the devaluing 641 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:57,560 Speaker 1: of black bodies right and reinforcing stereotypes about hyper sexuality 642 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,399 Speaker 1: of black people, or will in the stereotype type here, 643 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,479 Speaker 1: the Jezebel, the Sapphire, what have you, that black women 644 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,800 Speaker 1: are either going to be sassy, they're going to be angry, 645 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: they're going to be over sexed, you know, the cold independent, 646 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,920 Speaker 1: the black version of the cold independent. Sandra Bullock in 647 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 1: like the proposal, and there was a piece over at 648 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,479 Speaker 1: Bitch Media that was taking issue with the stereotyping of 649 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: women in black rom coms, um and like you said, 650 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: putting them kind of into those buckets of a Jezebel 651 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 1: temptress or the angry, emasculating Sapphire. Um, who Shelby in 652 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,319 Speaker 1: the Best Man Franchise definitely embodies. Um. You also have 653 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 1: the matriarch who would also be Mia, I would argue 654 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: in the Best Man franchise, as well as uh, the 655 00:42:54,640 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: welfare queen. And while yes, those can be probably about stereotypes, 656 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: I do wonder if it's not also just a product 657 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,719 Speaker 1: of just rom coms in general, because there's so much, 658 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,919 Speaker 1: so much stereotyping. We've super tropy, yeah that we've talked 659 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,839 Speaker 1: about of white leading characters as well. Yeah, and so 660 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,440 Speaker 1: much of rom coms in general. So much of their 661 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:24,440 Speaker 1: formula is I mean literally being formulaic. It's it's presenting 662 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: you with these outlines that you can easily recognize, so 663 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: it doesn't require hours of backstory and exposition. You just know, like, okay, 664 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: so I'm supposed to think that she's the slutty one 665 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: and he's the player, and like she's the cold career woman, 666 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: And that allows you to quickly move through the plot 667 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: and not have to be too confused about why these 668 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,279 Speaker 1: two people are falling in love because you just know 669 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: from the get go. Oh well we just know they're 670 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: supposed to end up together. Yeah, I mean, and well 671 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,560 Speaker 1: I just said two seconds ago, well like, well kind 672 00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,959 Speaker 1: of two wrongs make a right thing of like, well, 673 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,759 Speaker 1: white ladies or stereotyped and rom comes to but of 674 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 1: course they don't come with all of that racist and 675 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:13,200 Speaker 1: hyper sexualized baggage like in white rom coms. Even an 676 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:18,719 Speaker 1: ice Queen is like tacitly permitted love. We still expect 677 00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,640 Speaker 1: to see Sandra Bullock in the Proposal, who I feel 678 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,880 Speaker 1: like we've talked about more than anybody else in this series. 679 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: We still are fine with her falling in love, whereas 680 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: it might not be quite the same when you're playing 681 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,719 Speaker 1: around with these more racist stereotypes, because Boadre says that 682 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:42,800 Speaker 1: compared to black female protagonists, um, white ladies are usually 683 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: permitted more vulnerability, They're allowed to kind of evaluate the 684 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 1: qualities of their ideal mates and pick and choose more. Um. 685 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:56,320 Speaker 1: She says, they're hedgemotic notions of black womanhood that portrayed 686 00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:01,200 Speaker 1: them as over sexualized and strong to the point of isolation. 687 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 1: Not to mention that some people are concerned that a 688 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,840 Speaker 1: lot of the calm that you might see more of 689 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 1: a black lead rom com plays up the racist stereotypes 690 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: of just black foolishness as well. So it's like, well, 691 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,240 Speaker 1: what are we really what are we really serving up here? Um? 692 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,920 Speaker 1: Although again I would say that white lead rom coms 693 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,120 Speaker 1: aren't flawless either. But again then you come back to 694 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:34,480 Speaker 1: but racism. But racism, well yeah, but racism and also taboos. 695 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 1: I mean we mentioned misgenation and people's misgivings about interracial romances. 696 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,640 Speaker 1: I mean, take a movie like Hitch. You know, we 697 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,000 Speaker 1: we did mention this in our last episode, but you know, 698 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 1: Will Smith, a black man stars opposite even Mendez, And 699 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:57,080 Speaker 1: that was rather on purpose because Will Smith broke it 700 00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: down in an article in an interview where he basically said, uh, 701 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:07,240 Speaker 1: you know, if I were to star opposite a black woman, 702 00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,680 Speaker 1: that would have been okay elsewhere in the world, but 703 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 1: not in the US, because then it would have been 704 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,360 Speaker 1: a black comedy. If I had started opposite a white woman, 705 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,719 Speaker 1: that also would have been okay in other parts of 706 00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,800 Speaker 1: the world, but not in the US because we're apparently 707 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,360 Speaker 1: not there yet. So they got even Mendez, who's beautiful 708 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: brown but not too dark, and she's not black, and 709 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,360 Speaker 1: hopefully this makes it universal, as all of the executives 710 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 1: were saying with their fingers crossed. Yeah. Smith even went 711 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,400 Speaker 1: on to say that quote ironically, Hollywood is happy to 712 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 1: do it, I e. Like pairing up a black man 713 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,800 Speaker 1: and a woman romantically if the film is about racism, 714 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:46,319 Speaker 1: but they won't simply do it and ignore it. So 715 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 1: it was actually a really big deal when the comedy 716 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: thriller Focus came out. Not necessarily a rom Crom rom 717 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,719 Speaker 1: Crom maybe more of a rom crom because they had 718 00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:03,799 Speaker 1: crime in it. Um. But it starred Will Smith opposite 719 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:08,880 Speaker 1: Margot Roby, and it was the very first time Will 720 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,919 Speaker 1: Smith got sexy with a white lady on screen. And 721 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:15,920 Speaker 1: there was a piece in the Daily Beast all about 722 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:21,080 Speaker 1: how racists we're freaking out about the movies quote unquote 723 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:27,400 Speaker 1: race mixing. Oh come on, that was from um so 724 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 1: uh and Spike Lee two has said that interracial relationships 725 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: on screen are still like the number one taboo in Hollywood. Um. 726 00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,200 Speaker 1: But in terms of this, like j Lo is a 727 00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,920 Speaker 1: really interesting character to look at and one that Caitlin 728 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:50,359 Speaker 1: Mortimer in her thesis Romantic Comedy examined. Yeah, j Loo 729 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,440 Speaker 1: is interesting because she is allowed, so to speak, to 730 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:58,239 Speaker 1: have interracial romances in Hollywood. But it's because she's like 731 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,040 Speaker 1: safely ethnic. She's also one of those known quantities that 732 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,520 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier. She proved her popularity as a singer, 733 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,800 Speaker 1: as a dancer, as a general entertainer, and so people 734 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,560 Speaker 1: seem to have less of a problem with her romancing 735 00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:19,160 Speaker 1: people like Matthew McConaughey or Refines. But also considering the 736 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,879 Speaker 1: historic hyper sexualization and fear of black men praying on 737 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,640 Speaker 1: white women. Is it any wonder that it took until 738 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,879 Speaker 1: for one of the most bankable stars in Hollywood, who 739 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,279 Speaker 1: also happens to be black, too, star romantically opposite a 740 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,880 Speaker 1: white woman. I mean, that's how strong that racism is, 741 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:43,520 Speaker 1: and that even even then there were concerns of race mixing. 742 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that that taboo of a of 743 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:53,000 Speaker 1: a black man opposite a white female romantic lead is 744 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,239 Speaker 1: the biggest taboo of all because it confronts all of 745 00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:01,320 Speaker 1: those fears, which is shout out to the small screen. 746 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,640 Speaker 1: One of the reasons why I really do love Broad 747 00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:10,440 Speaker 1: City oh so much for Alana and Lincoln's inter racial romance, 748 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,600 Speaker 1: which I think Alana Glazer would like spittake if she 749 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:17,000 Speaker 1: heard it described as an interracial romance um between her 750 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:21,200 Speaker 1: and Hannibal Barris. But it's fantastic because it's just they 751 00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,239 Speaker 1: just like each other, like it is what it is. 752 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,799 Speaker 1: There's no um. There doesn't have to be commentary or explanation, 753 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:34,640 Speaker 1: exactly as I wish we would see from a rom com. Well, yeah, 754 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,959 Speaker 1: because that's how real life is. Real life and real 755 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:42,560 Speaker 1: love is. Sure, it's messy and complicated, but also once 756 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,279 Speaker 1: you fall in love with somebody it's really no, no 757 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 1: big deal. Well in one movie I want to see that. 758 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,400 Speaker 1: I do think it is more wrong than rom com 759 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,920 Speaker 1: that came up a lot in things we were reading 760 00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:58,840 Speaker 1: about interracial romances on screen was Something New starring Sina 761 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,799 Speaker 1: Latham who fall in love with a white gardener. Um. 762 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,280 Speaker 1: He played by some handsome guy with like scruffy blonde 763 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:10,000 Speaker 1: hair and crinkly blue eyes. You'd recognize him if you 764 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,240 Speaker 1: saw him. Um, but apparently it's really good. I remember 765 00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,919 Speaker 1: seeing the previous when it first came out and rolled 766 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,360 Speaker 1: my eyes a little bit. But apparently it's actually a 767 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:24,960 Speaker 1: good example of kind of confronting those taboos. It is 768 00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,719 Speaker 1: pretty crazy, and I think that what willis Edwards that 769 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,800 Speaker 1: former president of the Beverly Hills in a c P 770 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:36,720 Speaker 1: said in that Jet magazine article still stands. And why 771 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:41,040 Speaker 1: can't Hollywood seem to catch up to so much of 772 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,359 Speaker 1: the rest of the country because they do still have 773 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,759 Speaker 1: to play too, as he said Peoria and Mississippi, that 774 00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,440 Speaker 1: you still have so many people who are going to 775 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:55,520 Speaker 1: vote with their dollars or vote by being awful on 776 00:50:55,560 --> 00:51:00,400 Speaker 1: Twitter about how they will not go see plotlines like that. Yeah, 777 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,319 Speaker 1: but yeah, and um, I think maybe a sign of 778 00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: our true cultural progress will be um when black rom 779 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,200 Speaker 1: coms are just rom coms. The first thing that came 780 00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,960 Speaker 1: to mind as you were also saying that Caroline was 781 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,480 Speaker 1: the movie Dope, which was so good you've only seen 782 00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,040 Speaker 1: bits and pieces of. But wouldn't it count as a 783 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:24,799 Speaker 1: rom com kind of sort? I mean there's a romantic interest, Yeah, 784 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,120 Speaker 1: I mean, but it's a great It's just a great movie, 785 00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:31,120 Speaker 1: and it was, and it was marketed as a mainstream 786 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,040 Speaker 1: movie even though it had a black leading cast. Yeah, 787 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,480 Speaker 1: it's funny because I literally never saw it marketed or 788 00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,920 Speaker 1: advertised or anything. I just my boyfriend and I watched 789 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,920 Speaker 1: it on HBO. See. Also, man, technology is going to 790 00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:47,520 Speaker 1: change things, because you're right, Caroline, we advertising is even changing. 791 00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:52,040 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't see commercials for movies ever anymore 792 00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,399 Speaker 1: at all. So I don't even know what's coming out. 793 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,880 Speaker 1: And that's funny because the first time I became aware 794 00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:01,160 Speaker 1: of Dope was because like one of those the posters 795 00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:06,160 Speaker 1: um on a like an abandoned building across the street 796 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,120 Speaker 1: from a brunch place I was at, which Hi, did 797 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:13,440 Speaker 1: I mention that I'm so white? Um? But now, listeners, 798 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,480 Speaker 1: we really want to hear from you on this because 799 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,480 Speaker 1: there there's so much in here to talk about, and 800 00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,640 Speaker 1: so many films that we didn't even have time to mention. 801 00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,520 Speaker 1: So we want to know your favorites and curious to 802 00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:32,120 Speaker 1: know your thoughts on the segregation of rom comms and 803 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:36,439 Speaker 1: the marginalization of black rom comms in particular, and whether 804 00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,680 Speaker 1: we can ever kind of get over that, or if 805 00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:42,560 Speaker 1: we even should get over that. Mom Stuff at how 806 00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:44,640 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com is our email address. You can 807 00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,840 Speaker 1: also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or message es 808 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,279 Speaker 1: on Facebook, and we've got a couple of messages to 809 00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:57,480 Speaker 1: share with you right now. I read I've got a 810 00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,520 Speaker 1: letter here from Mary Rose. She says a huge fan 811 00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,120 Speaker 1: of the podcast and especially loved your recent episode on 812 00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,080 Speaker 1: women in political campaigns. My first job out of college 813 00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,800 Speaker 1: was managing a state Senate race, and while it remains 814 00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,680 Speaker 1: one of my favorite jobs to date, it was also 815 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:15,080 Speaker 1: an incredibly eye opening experience into everyday sexism. As campaign manager, 816 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,640 Speaker 1: I worked more on political strategy and press relations than 817 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,760 Speaker 1: on fundraising or field operations for which I hired staff. 818 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,960 Speaker 1: Despite this, I was often confused for either my boss's 819 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,799 Speaker 1: wife or his daughter when I attended events with him. 820 00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:28,279 Speaker 1: He was forty one at the time and I was 821 00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,960 Speaker 1: twenty two. Somebody even gave either drink order at a 822 00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,399 Speaker 1: campaign event once. As you discussed on the podcast, there 823 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,920 Speaker 1: were also some misconceptions in general weirdness due to the 824 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:39,800 Speaker 1: fact that I was a young woman working for a 825 00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,799 Speaker 1: middle aged male candidate, while my boss was as appropriate 826 00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,520 Speaker 1: and professional as they come. When I was first offered 827 00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,040 Speaker 1: the job, my boyfriend at the time suggested it was 828 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:52,239 Speaker 1: because my boss had other intentions. Note he didn't remain 829 00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,360 Speaker 1: my boyfriend for long. I now work on pay equity, 830 00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,680 Speaker 1: and I've given a lot of thought to compensation on 831 00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:01,080 Speaker 1: political campaigns. I was fortunate to work for two elected 832 00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:03,680 Speaker 1: officials my first boss, as well as a female candidate, 833 00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,319 Speaker 1: who paid me very fairly, But the majority of my 834 00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,880 Speaker 1: friends who have worked on campaigns have done so for 835 00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:12,000 Speaker 1: free or for next to nothing, especially at the U. S. 836 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:15,439 Speaker 1: Senate and presidential campaign levels. As you pointed out during 837 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:19,040 Speaker 1: the episode, this hugely affects the demographic makeup of campaigns 838 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,680 Speaker 1: and legislative offices, which in turn makes for policies that 839 00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,600 Speaker 1: don't represent the American electorate. The gender disparity in campaign 840 00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:29,879 Speaker 1: rules also exacerbates the wage gap for years to come, 841 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,120 Speaker 1: considering that many of these campaign staffers will go on 842 00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:37,279 Speaker 1: to lateral positions in the Canada Legislative Office. Thank you 843 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,960 Speaker 1: for highlighting many of the challenges facing women on political 844 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:44,239 Speaker 1: campaigns and for discussing the implications of pay inequality in politics. 845 00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:47,160 Speaker 1: And well, thank you for writing in Mary Rose. Well, 846 00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,640 Speaker 1: I've got a letter here from Ben who says we 847 00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:53,239 Speaker 1: can also refer to him as Ben from Seattle. So 848 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:57,120 Speaker 1: Ben writes, longtime listener, and I typically dig your work, 849 00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,440 Speaker 1: but I have to take you to task about the 850 00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,520 Speaker 1: Hillary in an episode, and specifically the comments made about 851 00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:07,080 Speaker 1: the quote no room for fear. One of you made 852 00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,640 Speaker 1: a connection between that quote and transphobic bathroom bills, and 853 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,000 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I think that's entirely unreasonable and and undermines 854 00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,160 Speaker 1: the very real historical record which shows her lack of leadership, 855 00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,400 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to fear. Please keep in mind 856 00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,319 Speaker 1: that both Bill and Hillary's political record on gay and 857 00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:27,840 Speaker 1: trans rights. It's absolutely detestable, and Hillary did not publicly 858 00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:31,920 Speaker 1: support full equality for gay Americans until very recently, and 859 00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,759 Speaker 1: anything else but full equality would be second class citizenship 860 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,520 Speaker 1: and unconstitutional right. More to the point, fear is what 861 00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,759 Speaker 1: drove this country to an unnecessary war with Iraq, and 862 00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,760 Speaker 1: Clinton voted in favor of that war. Her voting record 863 00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,200 Speaker 1: is the same for the Patriot Act, another example of 864 00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,920 Speaker 1: how she is perfectly comfortable making room for fear to 865 00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:54,640 Speaker 1: advance questionable domestic and international policy. Could you please revisit 866 00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:58,359 Speaker 1: this issue and address this point. Indeed, Hillary Clinton's accomplishments 867 00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,400 Speaker 1: are outstanding and very impressive, but let's not pretend her 868 00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,000 Speaker 1: life as a fairy tale. She has made very serious 869 00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,319 Speaker 1: mistakes and needs to be held accountable. Firstly, I don't 870 00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,680 Speaker 1: see her as a leader. Elizabeth Warren, on the other hand, 871 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,400 Speaker 1: is definitely a textbook example of a leader. Perhaps she 872 00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,359 Speaker 1: should put a show together about her. So, Ben, thank 873 00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:20,080 Speaker 1: you for your thoughts. And Elizabeth Warren is a total 874 00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:23,600 Speaker 1: badass and she would be really fun to put an 875 00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:26,480 Speaker 1: episode on. I also think it's worth noting that we 876 00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:33,120 Speaker 1: stopped the episode so there is I agree Ben that 877 00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,520 Speaker 1: we we left out a lot and a lot of 878 00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,560 Speaker 1: people have written in you know, it's asking why we 879 00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,200 Speaker 1: didn't talk about ben Ghazzi and the emails, for instance, 880 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:46,560 Speaker 1: But we made a very specific decision to address her 881 00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:49,759 Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, her quote unquote young 882 00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:54,600 Speaker 1: life leading up to when she first landed in the 883 00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:58,120 Speaker 1: White House, which was in ninety two. So obviously a 884 00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,560 Speaker 1: lot has happened since then, in including some questionable voting 885 00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:06,840 Speaker 1: records and some questionable support behind some policies, but that 886 00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,200 Speaker 1: will have to be for another episode. Yeah, I mean, 887 00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:14,080 Speaker 1: uh t L d R. There wasn't enough time, but Ben, 888 00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:18,640 Speaker 1: kudos to you for being informed and engaged, and thank 889 00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,680 Speaker 1: you for listening, Um and listeners. As always, if you 890 00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:23,600 Speaker 1: have thoughts to share with us, mom Stuff at how 891 00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:25,800 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com is where you can send your letters. 892 00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,040 Speaker 1: You can also tweet us at mom stuff podcast or 893 00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,680 Speaker 1: messages on Facebook and for links all of our social 894 00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:33,680 Speaker 1: media as well as all of our blogs, videos, and 895 00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,480 Speaker 1: podcasts with our sources. So you can learn more about 896 00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,480 Speaker 1: rom coms and people of color, head on over to 897 00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:47,080 Speaker 1: stuff mom Never Told You dot com for more on 898 00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:49,280 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. VI is it how 899 00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:58,000 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com