Speaker 1: If you missed any episodes of Russia Limbaugh The Man
Speaker 1: behind the Golden E I B Microphone, you've missed more
Speaker 1: great stories from some of Russia's closest friends, family, and colleagues.
Speaker 1: All previous episodes are available now on I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your podcast. On this episode
Speaker 1: of Russia Limbaugh The Man Behind the Golden E I
Speaker 1: B Microphone, we'll be speaking with two industry icons, Michael
Speaker 1: Harrison of Talkers magazine and Phil Boyce, who was the
Speaker 1: program director at w ABC in New York when Rush
Speaker 1: was there and was the p D who hired Sean Hannity,
Speaker 1: currently VP of Spoken Word for Salem Communications. Whether you
Speaker 1: listened every day you are at the E I B
Speaker 1: Network and the Russia Limball program heard on over six
Speaker 1: hundred great radio stations every now and then, nation's leading
Speaker 1: radio and talk show, the most eagerly intisepated program. Stories
Speaker 1: you've never heard from the people behind the scenes who
Speaker 1: knew him best and loved him most. Rushman having more
Speaker 1: funds the human being it could be allowed to have
Speaker 1: Rush Limpough The Man behind the Golden E I D
Speaker 1: Microphones hosted by James golden Through the Stand Up for
Speaker 1: Betsy Ross campaign, you changed the lives of dozens of
Speaker 1: hero families in need. The campaign benefited The Tunnels Are
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Speaker 1: send a charital donation in total of five million dollars
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Speaker 1: dot org. That's the letter T the number two t
Speaker 1: dot org. First up, the founder of Talkers magazine, Michael Harrison. Now, Michael,
Speaker 1: you've you've interviewed dresslan Ball. You interviewed him early on.
Speaker 1: But before we get to that, I'd like you to
Speaker 1: tell our audience how it came to be that you
Speaker 1: published the leading magazine for the entire talk radio industry.
Speaker 1: I had a background in trade publishing and in broadcasting,
Speaker 1: and i've i've I've always led a double life or
Speaker 1: a double career of being involved in the trades and
Speaker 1: also being involved in just about every end of being
Speaker 1: on air or managing or I even owned a radio station.
Speaker 1: I've been a program director, and I've been a personality,
Speaker 1: and I've been involved in music radio and in talk radio.
Speaker 1: In the trade arena, I was involved in the development
Speaker 1: of Radio and Records. I was its first managing editor
Speaker 1: when it started, and had also worked with Billboard magazine
Speaker 1: and published a couple of newsletters and tip sheets along
Speaker 1: the way. So uh, and I was doing talk radio
Speaker 1: on a rock station in l A for eleven years,
Speaker 1: and I always felt that when the nineties would would come,
Speaker 1: this was during the eighties, that the nineties were going
Speaker 1: to be the decade of talk radio, that talk radio
Speaker 1: was going to become the dominant form of radio. So
Speaker 1: I wanted to do it professionally as a broadcaster, and
Speaker 1: I also wanted to be involved in it as a
Speaker 1: trade publisher. So when came around, I decided to take
Speaker 1: all the experience I had in both on air management
Speaker 1: and trade publishing and put them into a trade publication
Speaker 1: that dealt with talk radio back as if it were
Speaker 1: the talk radio industry. We called it the the industry,
Speaker 1: even though it was just at that time basically a
Speaker 1: small portion of the radio industry. And uh, fortunately I
Speaker 1: was right, and that was thirty one years ago. Talkers
Speaker 1: Magazine is still operating and still thriving, thank goodness, for
Speaker 1: which I'm very grateful and it's extremely gratifying. When did
Speaker 1: you first meet When did you first become aware of
Speaker 1: Russia Limball? How did that happen? I heard him on
Speaker 1: the station that I had owned, UM shortly after I
Speaker 1: sold the station, they put Rush Limbaugh on. I'm driving
Speaker 1: down Route Highway ninety one in Springfield, Massachusetts, and I
Speaker 1: hear on my former station, the that I owned, UM,
Speaker 1: this is Rush Limball, and how I go, who the
Speaker 1: heck is that? It was like it's like the first
Speaker 1: time I heard Elvis Presley. I remember that I'm that old,
Speaker 1: and I remember the first time I heard the Beatles.
Speaker 1: I remember the first time I heard Rush Limbaugh on
Speaker 1: the air, and it just came through the speakers like
Speaker 1: a ton of bricks, that that voice, and and that
Speaker 1: whole ownership of the airwaves, the ownership of the air
Speaker 1: And that was the first time. And and of course,
Speaker 1: being a student of the industry, I had not started
Speaker 1: talkers yet, so I was in the process of thinking
Speaker 1: about it. Obviously. Um, I asked, who who is this
Speaker 1: Rush Limbo? First of all, the name is funny, rush Limball,
Speaker 1: you know, and similar to Elvis Presley. When he first
Speaker 1: showed up on the scene, the name sounded very funny.
Speaker 1: People are making fun of it. They called him Elbow Parsley,
Speaker 1: rush Limbaugh, and UM, you know, you become used to
Speaker 1: a name after a while, and uh, we're certainly used
Speaker 1: to the name rush Limbaugh now. But that's how I
Speaker 1: first became aware of him. And it's very interesting. The
Speaker 1: evolution that followed in terms of syndication during the midday
Speaker 1: was not something that major market radio was very quick
Speaker 1: to do. That was considered to be very daring to
Speaker 1: put a syndicated program program on in the middle of
Speaker 1: the day and Rush talked about that. By the way,
Speaker 1: he was told at the time, this is never gonna work.
Speaker 1: It's not going to work. Radio stations will not pick
Speaker 1: you up, et cetera. But he went ahead and and
Speaker 1: he and Ed McLaughlin. Did you know Ed McLaughlin? I,
Speaker 1: I subsequently knew Ed. I did not know Ed personally.
Speaker 1: He was a major executive at ABC Radio. So being
Speaker 1: in the broadcasting business, I knew who he was, but
Speaker 1: I had not yet met him or interacted or done
Speaker 1: business with him. But I certainly knew who he was,
Speaker 1: and I knew that his starting a syndicated venture after
Speaker 1: leaving ABC was something to be taken seriously because he
Speaker 1: was what we call in the business, a heavyweight, and
Speaker 1: obviously he was. So let's let's advance you hear him,
Speaker 1: this is before you started Talkers magazine. Correct, follow your
Speaker 1: own evolution as a listener. Well, I certainly understood the
Speaker 1: need to fill a void, because that's why I call
Speaker 1: that positioning, and in radio, positioning is everything. And so
Speaker 1: it immediately struck me that his approach to UH talk
Speaker 1: radio from the conservative perspective, especially with humor, in many ways,
Speaker 1: he was sort of what on the right, what Jon
Speaker 1: Stewart was on the left. Heavy use of satire, heavy
Speaker 1: use of humor, heavy use of production and entertaining elements
Speaker 1: and parodies and wordplay and double entendres. Uh So he
Speaker 1: was very entertaining and filled a void because talk radio
Speaker 1: was political. It was post fairness doctrine, so you could
Speaker 1: be opinionated without being too restrained by fear that you'd
Speaker 1: be sense sword or sensored by the government. And uh,
Speaker 1: I knew right away, Oh this tap, this makes total sense.
Speaker 1: There's a there's a giant market out there for conservative
Speaker 1: politics because, let's face it, most of the media was
Speaker 1: either moderate or liberal, and conservative politics was marginalized as radical,
Speaker 1: far right, very negative, pejorative. So I knew right away
Speaker 1: this guy's got it all. He's positioned properly to fill
Speaker 1: the political void, politics being the major topic of interest
Speaker 1: on news talk radio. And he's entertaining and he sounds good.
Speaker 1: His his mechanics were that of a really seasoned top
Speaker 1: forty jock. He knew that mechanics. And I'm very, very
Speaker 1: into mechanics because I just love radio, So I knew
Speaker 1: this was a guy to watch. Explain what you mean,
Speaker 1: because we have a lot of people here that are
Speaker 1: not radio people. So when you say mc planics, okay,
Speaker 1: what are they talk What is he talking about? What
Speaker 1: is mechanics? But you know, people think you just get
Speaker 1: on the radio and you sit there and you spout
Speaker 1: your politics, you spout what you want to do. But
Speaker 1: radio is a symphony. Radio is a combination. It's a
Speaker 1: continuum of elements. There there's music, and there's commercials, and
Speaker 1: there are breaks, and there's timing, and we're working our
Speaker 1: way up to the clock and at one o'clock we've
Speaker 1: got the news and then we'll be back. And there's
Speaker 1: it's a whole dance of thirty second elements, ten second elements,
Speaker 1: sixty second elements, bed music. Um, there's a pacing to it.
Speaker 1: There's a sound and a texture to it that DJs
Speaker 1: who came out of the sixties and the seventies and
Speaker 1: the eighties inherently knew how to do. It's it's the reps.
Speaker 1: It's if you want to be a pianist, you have
Speaker 1: to learn how to make your fingers work on the
Speaker 1: on the piano. If you want to be a baseball player,
Speaker 1: you have to do batting practice. You have to you
Speaker 1: have to learn how to throw, how to catch the
Speaker 1: basic mechanics of an entity, and radio is the same way.
Speaker 1: So and you can hear it right away. Rush played
Speaker 1: the continuum of sound, the symphony of a sound of
Speaker 1: a radio station or a radio show as one of
Speaker 1: its elements. He knew how to integrate his voice into
Speaker 1: that flow. I know it sounds esoteric and maybe I'm
Speaker 1: over analyzing it. No you're not, because this is one
Speaker 1: of the things that Russie Rush talked about this on occasion.
Speaker 1: He would talk about it, but but he wouldn't talk
Speaker 1: about it in depth the way that you are now
Speaker 1: explaining it. What he would say is that radio is theater,
Speaker 1: and you have to understand just as as an actor
Speaker 1: would or or someone in the theater business. You have
Speaker 1: to understand the theater. You have to understand and and
Speaker 1: and there are no visuals, so what you have is
Speaker 1: the complete attention of someone who's listening. It's an active
Speaker 1: process to listen to somebody, as opposed to look at
Speaker 1: something while you're busy doing something else. Absolutely, and and
Speaker 1: and the theater is a perfect analogy. When you go
Speaker 1: into a theater, there's the curtain, there's the chandelier at
Speaker 1: the top of the roof. If it's if it's a
Speaker 1: classic old theater, there's there's the whole atmosphere of the theater,
Speaker 1: and then the lights go down, and then if it's
Speaker 1: a musical, the orchestra comes up, and then the curtain
Speaker 1: opens and the lights start. It's not just somebody standing
Speaker 1: on a stage talking to you. There's a whole environment
Speaker 1: and the actor or the writer or each of the
Speaker 1: elements finds its place within this whole, you know, montage
Speaker 1: of synchronized entities, and Rush brought that to talk radio,
Speaker 1: so it's like listening to a music radio station with
Speaker 1: the station's format was part of the program, was it
Speaker 1: was actually part of the show. The format was part
Speaker 1: of the show. He did that in Talk before anybody else,
Speaker 1: and um, that is one of the things that made
Speaker 1: him successful. Obviously he brought content and and a lot
Speaker 1: of intelligence and other things to it. But that was
Speaker 1: the first thing I noticed was his position politically that
Speaker 1: he's filling a gap and that's good for democracy, and
Speaker 1: that's good for radio because people that feel left out, disenfranchised,
Speaker 1: hungry for that type of a point of view, empowered
Speaker 1: and and franchised as opposed to disenfranchised. They would like that,
Speaker 1: but they're also radio listeners, and a radio listener knows
Speaker 1: when they're hearing the radio that it's not television. When
Speaker 1: you hear a television soundtrack on radio, it doesn't sound
Speaker 1: like a radio station. It sounds like there's something different
Speaker 1: about it has a hollowness to it. This was full
Speaker 1: radio and that voice. It just was the right package
Speaker 1: at the right time. But I definitely think that his mechanics,
Speaker 1: back to that word, were one of the pillars upon
Speaker 1: which his success was built. AM radio was in trouble
Speaker 1: at that time. People were wondering if AM radio would
Speaker 1: survive five talk about that for a moment please. AM
Speaker 1: radio was in big trouble, and, as I think Chris
Speaker 1: Christofferson wrote in the Janice Joplin hit, freedom is just
Speaker 1: another word for nothing left to lose. There was nothing
Speaker 1: left to lose. FM radio was eating AM Radio's lunch
Speaker 1: with the music. It just didn't sound as good. So
Speaker 1: here's what happened AM radio. First, of all radio fans
Speaker 1: post war Baby boomers uh knew how to use radio.
Speaker 1: They grew up with radio and they knew what AM
Speaker 1: radio was, so they were not strangers to the dial um.
Speaker 1: Talk sounded good on AM. The aforementioned fairness doctrine was repealed,
Speaker 1: which means now you can talk about politics and have
Speaker 1: opinion without having to hold back for fear that you're
Speaker 1: not giving every side at the proper exposure. And that's
Speaker 1: impossible to do because there are more sides two sides
Speaker 1: than anybody can believe. It's very subjective. So rather than
Speaker 1: be fair and have more points of view on the air,
Speaker 1: radio station said we're not messing with this, they just
Speaker 1: never talked about anything controversial. That was gone, so controversial
Speaker 1: politics suddenly was was fair game. The post war baby
Speaker 1: boomers that grew up with pop radio and AM rock radio, Um,
Speaker 1: we're getting older and suddenly interested in politics, Suddenly interested
Speaker 1: in taxation, suddenly interested in in in various aspects of
Speaker 1: freedom of government, of community, education, health care, public safety,
Speaker 1: foreign affairs, all of these things suddenly were of interest
Speaker 1: to basically the same audience that grew up listening to
Speaker 1: rock and roll. The demographic shift had happened. They were
Speaker 1: getting older, so suddenly the audience was was there for that.
Speaker 1: And the thing that Rush did and that talk radio
Speaker 1: did was it provided uh, the listeners with something that
Speaker 1: was important in their life, something that was more than
Speaker 1: just back crowned. It was it was heavy duty, It
Speaker 1: had teeth, It reflected the culture, and radio to succeed,
Speaker 1: going all the way back to the beginning, unlike other
Speaker 1: forms of media, had to be hip, grassroots, the sound
Speaker 1: of the street, uh, the everyday person, and RUSSI accomplished
Speaker 1: that and and and as a result, it kept AM
Speaker 1: Radio alive, and I think to a certain extent, it
Speaker 1: kept all of radio alive. Not only you, my professor,
Speaker 1: but you're also a friend and a mentor and somebody
Speaker 1: that I've looked up to and I dare say a hero,
Speaker 1: uh due to the value that the true life values
Speaker 1: that you have expounded out there. I remember many years
Speaker 1: ago you spoke to being able to get a job,
Speaker 1: and you talked about the different levels and what's required
Speaker 1: and whether it was a high school, college education. And
Speaker 1: I think that the top level of that had something
Speaker 1: to do with integrity and respect. And I think that
Speaker 1: those are parts of values that you teach out there
Speaker 1: that are invaluable. And I just I'm thankful that I've
Speaker 1: been able to experience you for all these years and
Speaker 1: many years to come. Well, I thank you very much.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm I'm always flattered and deeply appreciative when
Speaker 1: I find out how detailed people's listening is, and you
Speaker 1: have heard the details and they've obviously made an impression
Speaker 1: on you. I remember many of the times, not all,
Speaker 1: I'm sure, but I remember many times I've talked about
Speaker 1: getting a job, versus finding a career, versus becoming productive,
Speaker 1: versus finding what it is that you are born to do.
Speaker 1: We are all born to do something, including be lazy.
Speaker 1: Some people just have to find what what they were
Speaker 1: born to do, and it's a rewarding thing to get
Speaker 1: calls like yours. I deeply and and profoundly appreciated. In
Speaker 1: each episode, we've been documenting the story of Russia's life,
Speaker 1: narrated by some of his closest friends and colleagues. This
Speaker 1: week a good friend of the program, a good friend
Speaker 1: of mine, the actor, the director, and he was a
Speaker 1: guest host once on the Rustling Ball program, none other
Speaker 1: than our friend Nick Sercy. The Life of Russia Limbaugh,
Speaker 1: Chapter eleven, narrated by Nick Searcy. After the election of
Speaker 1: Barack Obama in two thousand and eight, Russia Limbaugh was
Speaker 1: immediately concerned for the direction America was headed as he
Speaker 1: intuitively sensed the growing loss of freedoms and liberty to
Speaker 1: come over the next eight years, and as the end
Speaker 1: of the Obama regime neared, Russia's listeners trusted him more
Speaker 1: than ever as Conservatism's most vocal champion and opinion maker.
Speaker 1: As a well known businessman, a non political outsider, started
Speaker 1: gaining steam in a long shot bid for the Republican
Speaker 1: presidential nomination, Rush made clear where his priority stood. Whatever
Speaker 1: you think I'm advocate aiding, it's not because I care
Speaker 1: what happens to the Republican Party. I care about what
Speaker 1: happens to America, and I know that any more of
Speaker 1: what we've had the last eight years, it's gonna be America.
Speaker 1: But it's not gonna be America. You and I know.
Speaker 1: As then candidate Donald J. Trump took off on a
Speaker 1: meteoric rise, the mainstream media and political pundits were dumbfounded
Speaker 1: by his success and his refusal to play by the usual,
Speaker 1: tired set of rules. But Russ knew early on that
Speaker 1: Trump was different and why he connected with the American people.
Speaker 1: He's real, he isn't phony, he is not politically correct,
Speaker 1: and he's fearless. He's not afraid to tell people what
Speaker 1: he actually thinks about other people or things. Trump is
Speaker 1: showing that the things the Republican Party is afraid of
Speaker 1: are baseless. They don't need to be afraid. With his
Speaker 1: signature insight, Limbaugh told his listeners why the experts were
Speaker 1: failing to understand the man who was promising to make
Speaker 1: America great again. Despite the scores of critics and doubters,
Speaker 1: Trump never gave up, and he campaigned relentlessly right until
Speaker 1: the early morning hours of election day, November eight, two
Speaker 1: thousand sixteen. So it's so officially Tuesday November. Did you
Speaker 1: ever think you'd be hearing a major speech like it
Speaker 1: around close to one o'lock in the morning? Are we phrasey?
Speaker 1: And as America came alive the next morning, it discovered
Speaker 1: Trump had shocked the world with a decisive win over
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton. For his part, Rush became one of President
Speaker 1: Trump's most vocal advocates throughout his presidency and the election.
Speaker 1: He saw Trump as a uniter who would be good
Speaker 1: for America in the long run. He is out trying
Speaker 1: to get as many people in this country as he
Speaker 1: can to join his movement. He's not trying to lose.
Speaker 1: He's not trying to clean things up and make the
Speaker 1: party something that it isn't. He's trying to rename it,
Speaker 1: reshape it, so that is a party of victory. And
Speaker 1: what's the slogan, America great again? America First. Everything he's
Speaker 1: talking about is real. The outcome of the last presidential
Speaker 1: election of Russia's lifetime didn't produce the results for which
Speaker 1: he had hoped. And if the world ever needed his
Speaker 1: insight and commentary, it does today more than ever. But
Speaker 1: if you listen close, even though the Golden E I
Speaker 1: B microphone sits empty, through the speakers of radio stations
Speaker 1: across the country, you can still hear the man we
Speaker 1: knew and loved for more than thirty years. The voices
Speaker 1: offering their opinion on the radio now may be different,
Speaker 1: but the footsteps in which they follow undoubted belong to
Speaker 1: Rush Limbaugh. Hey, James Golden, here, you know what it's
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Speaker 1: clicking on the new radio listeners specials and use promo
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Speaker 1: pillow dot com promo code icon. Back with Michael Harrison. Mike,
Speaker 1: when did you meet Rush? I met Rush? Uh, it
Speaker 1: was I think it was nine. I met Rush on
Speaker 1: the telephone when I interviewed him for the second issue
Speaker 1: of Talkers magazine. UM, but I met him personally. I
Speaker 1: believe it was at the National Association of Broadcasters convention
Speaker 1: in San Francisco, in which he and I were on
Speaker 1: the same panel, and UM the panel had a couple
Speaker 1: of other people. I think ron Owens from KGO and
Speaker 1: San Francisco was on it, and the conversation was or included,
Speaker 1: is it possible for a national syndicated personality to to
Speaker 1: appropriately put a mid day on on a major market
Speaker 1: radio station. That was the issue. It was that outrageous,
Speaker 1: and the audience was a little hostile to Rush and
Speaker 1: very positive about ron Owens and UM. I believe the
Speaker 1: moderators were Kennan Daria Dolan, and I was on there
Speaker 1: as the observer. Talker was only one year old at
Speaker 1: the time, but fortunately we already were very popular and
Speaker 1: I was the I was the impartial observer UM and
Speaker 1: that was where I met Rush Limbaugh. You know, one
Speaker 1: of the things that I've thought for years is that
Speaker 1: so many broadcasters and not just broadcasters. It's it's because,
Speaker 1: as you know, this is an industry that, to use
Speaker 1: a political phrase, trickles down into other areas. Jobs are
Speaker 1: not just created in a radio and just where you
Speaker 1: have the jobs that come from advertising, you have all
Speaker 1: the jobs that come from the advertising support, and it
Speaker 1: goes on and on. So Rush coming in and and
Speaker 1: and doing what he did for radio at such a
Speaker 1: critical time, one would think that there would be this
Speaker 1: swell of appreciation for it. Yet you mentioned there was
Speaker 1: a little bit of hostility. What did you attribute that to? One,
Speaker 1: A lot of people in the business felt he was
Speaker 1: taking away jobs because, UM, I don't know, maybe there
Speaker 1: were a hundred stations fifty two, it was far less
Speaker 1: than today. Um, during the original ascent of Rush Limbaugh
Speaker 1: and what I call the modern era of talk radio.
Speaker 1: So a lot of a lot of radio personalities felt
Speaker 1: he was taking away their jobs. There was the feeling
Speaker 1: that it was sacrilegious to have something that wasn't local
Speaker 1: on a radio station in the middle of the day.
Speaker 1: So there was hostility towards that. And I have to
Speaker 1: say that at that time, most of the ownership and
Speaker 1: most of the people in the radio business were of
Speaker 1: a moderate to liberal bent, and they found his politics
Speaker 1: offensive and disagreed with it. So the combination of what
Speaker 1: they perceived to be taking away jobs, which which mathematically
Speaker 1: turned out not to be absolutely true. And we can
Speaker 1: talk about that if you want to. But um, there
Speaker 1: was hostility from an industrial standpoint, in terms of the
Speaker 1: economics of it, the aesthetics of it, in terms of
Speaker 1: local versus national, and uh, politically, Um, there wasn't a
Speaker 1: fully developed conservative constituency within the radio business. Um And
Speaker 1: And one of the interesting things James that happened in
Speaker 1: that encounter because I was on the panel with him,
Speaker 1: and we also had dinner together. UM. I had dinner
Speaker 1: with Rush and the Dolans, and that was a very
Speaker 1: interesting dinner. But I had an encounter with him in
Speaker 1: the whole way. Um withstanding, it was just the two
Speaker 1: of us, and he looked at me and he said, Michael,
Speaker 1: I have a question I want to ask you. Maybe
Speaker 1: you can give me an honest answer. I said, sure, Rush.
Speaker 1: What he said, how come people don't like me? Blew
Speaker 1: me away. It blew me away when he said, how
Speaker 1: come people don't like me like I like like today
Speaker 1: in the panel, I just get the sense that people
Speaker 1: in this business don't like me. I think. He then,
Speaker 1: you know, specifically pointed out as in this business. And
Speaker 1: I looked at him and I said, hey, they're jealous.
Speaker 1: Don't worry about it. Because I knew this guy was
Speaker 1: was heading for start um. I mean, it was just
Speaker 1: obvious to me. I've always been prey about that type
Speaker 1: of thing, and I certainly was in that time. But
Speaker 1: I said, don't worry about it, they're jealous, but he
Speaker 1: was very The thing that I learned and that moment
Speaker 1: was that he even though he's tough and and and
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, his teeth, as I said before,
Speaker 1: in terms of what he did on the air, personally,
Speaker 1: I got the impression that he's a very sensitive individual
Speaker 1: and was first coming around to understanding what it was
Speaker 1: like to be a public figure, even though the public
Speaker 1: in this case was in the industry. Who who meets
Speaker 1: with tremendous resistance and enemies? And I think it should
Speaker 1: come up a little bit, you know that. It is
Speaker 1: really an interesting observation. Let's and you mentioned before the jobs.
Speaker 1: I do want to hear what you have to say
Speaker 1: about that. Well, he did take jobs from people that
Speaker 1: would be local on the stations that he was installed at,
Speaker 1: but conversely, he created more stations as a result of
Speaker 1: the success he brought to the format. So he may
Speaker 1: have taken one job or two jobs from each station
Speaker 1: that existed when he first emerged on the scene. But
Speaker 1: as a result of Rush Limbaugh, hundreds of radio stations
Speaker 1: across America turned to the talk format, which created countless jobs,
Speaker 1: from management to sales to on air to engineering. So
Speaker 1: I sat down and figured it out because it was
Speaker 1: a major issue. The guy's taking jobs. He's not taking
Speaker 1: jobs at all. He was making jobs in terms of
Speaker 1: the total sum of his impact. Michael, here's the here's
Speaker 1: the money question, as it were, What is the legacy
Speaker 1: of Russia Limbaugh in the radio industry and beyond? Will
Speaker 1: there ever be anyone that does what Rush was able
Speaker 1: to do by way of accomplishment in this industry. I
Speaker 1: certainly hope somebody comes along and gives a shot in
Speaker 1: the arm to this industry going forward that would be
Speaker 1: equal or greater than Rush, But I doubt that's going
Speaker 1: to happen. I do believe there will be other media,
Speaker 1: other platforms, other chapters of history, and other great movements.
Speaker 1: So you know, I'm a I'm a believer in the future,
Speaker 1: and I'm optimistic. But in terms of the time and
Speaker 1: space the twentieth century and the beginning of the twenty
Speaker 1: one century that Rush Limbaugh operated in, I think his
Speaker 1: legacy will be that he was certainly one of the
Speaker 1: greatest I'm not talking about whether I agree with him politically,
Speaker 1: just one of the greatest broadcasters of the first one
Speaker 1: hundred years of radio UH and a major figure in
Speaker 1: keeping radio iconic and pertinent. And I believe also he
Speaker 1: will go down in history as being one of the
Speaker 1: most influential leaders of the modern conservative movement, the American
Speaker 1: conservative movement of the late twentieth century and early twenty
Speaker 1: one century. And that's a hell of a lot, it
Speaker 1: really is. Let me give you my view for a
Speaker 1: moment on honest this. You know, I when I first
Speaker 1: started with Rush, he was the first radio host I
Speaker 1: had ever heard that integrated email, this new thing that
Speaker 1: people were using. And back then he was using compu serve,
Speaker 1: used to give his compu Serve address out invite listeners
Speaker 1: to to UH to to be in contact with them,
Speaker 1: and in real time during the show would read some
Speaker 1: of those emails and respond to them and integrated that.
Speaker 1: And well, of course today we have this direct messaging
Speaker 1: all over the place, instant messaging, and now it's text.
Speaker 1: Now it's instantaneous that you can get through. We have
Speaker 1: entire social media platforms built on interactivity. When Rush started
Speaker 1: and and and as the show became what it was,
Speaker 1: it wasn't just radio. Television changed. What you mentioned about
Speaker 1: radio and the ownership was certainly true. Of television too.
Speaker 1: There was no conservative space on television for conservative politics.
Speaker 1: That has changed. The publishing world has changed, and that
Speaker 1: happened after Rush too. So my own view is that
Speaker 1: he is all of that and more in radio, but
Speaker 1: his impact on electronic and print media is sometimes not recognized.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? I think you're absolutely
Speaker 1: right as a matter of fact, as you were saying,
Speaker 1: and I'm going, yeah, I missed that. That's that's definitely
Speaker 1: part of it. He definitely was a catalyst for our
Speaker 1: evolution during the aforementioned time from the analog era to
Speaker 1: the digital era in terms of communications, and that of
Speaker 1: course goes way beyond any of the individual media platforms
Speaker 1: that we've cited. It really ties into a rapid jump
Speaker 1: ahead in terms of the wiring of the human nervous system.
Speaker 1: I mean, the way we're wired, the way we think,
Speaker 1: the way we are ties into this analog to digital
Speaker 1: transition which he did play a major role in in catalyzing.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I agree with you fully, Michael. This has
Speaker 1: been a real treat Um. You and I have known
Speaker 1: each other for quite a while, UM, and you are
Speaker 1: just an incredible force in this industry. You know, It's
Speaker 1: amazing that you your passion and you were equipped, you
Speaker 1: were born to do what you're doing, apparently because you
Speaker 1: had this dual interest in radio and in trade publications,
Speaker 1: and you were able to execute both of them flawlessy.
Speaker 1: And thanks to you you have we have now an
Speaker 1: informed media. You are doing something unique, and you've done
Speaker 1: something unique in this industry, and you are just one
Speaker 1: of the giants, and so it is certainly our honor
Speaker 1: and pleasure to have you here with us today. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for saying that. I really appreciated, James,
Speaker 1: and Um, I wish you and everybody associated with that
Speaker 1: great chapter of broadcasting history the best going forward. Thank you.
Speaker 1: This whole experience, not one bit of it is work,
Speaker 1: not one bit of it. It is all just more
Speaker 1: fun than I've ever had in my life. It is
Speaker 1: absolutely no hardship whatsoever to fly around the country to
Speaker 1: see people, to be on the radio, or any of that.
Speaker 1: You enjoy my show, and I appreciate that more than
Speaker 1: you'll ever know. I don't want to beat this into
Speaker 1: the ground. I'm sure you've all felt like you aren't
Speaker 1: going to ever amount to anything, even though you knew
Speaker 1: you were capable of and I felt that way. The
Speaker 1: only difference between you and me is that I'm up
Speaker 1: here and you're out there, And the only reason I'm
Speaker 1: up here is because you're out there. Right. It's true
Speaker 1: you may enjoy my show, but I'll tell you people,
Speaker 1: especially you people, you don't know it. So I'm gonna
Speaker 1: tell you you rejuvenated my life because a successful radio
Speaker 1: person is not a success simply because he does what
Speaker 1: he does. People have to listen to it, appreciate it,
Speaker 1: and support it. And everybody in this room has. I
Speaker 1: mean for me six years ago to be mired in
Speaker 1: loneliness and aimlessly walking through life and then to come
Speaker 1: here and have tickets sell out in two hours, My friends,
Speaker 1: that hits me in the heart like nothing you can
Speaker 1: ever imagine will nothing you can ever imagine will Well. Today,
Speaker 1: we are so pleased to have a man. His title
Speaker 1: in the business is about a paragraph long, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna read one sentence of it, so the rest of it,
Speaker 1: you know, would take about half an hour. Phil Boyce,
Speaker 1: the senior vice president of Spoken Word for Salem Media Group.
Speaker 1: Now this is I think impressive on a number of levels.
Speaker 1: Salem is a competitor, but yet Phil is here with us,
Speaker 1: and Phil welcome. James, Thank you so much. It's an
Speaker 1: honor to be on with you. I think I met
Speaker 1: you in when I joined w ABC as program director.
Speaker 1: The station at the time when I got there was
Speaker 1: the most listened to the news talk station in the nation.
Speaker 1: And I'll never forget sticking my head around the corner
Speaker 1: and seeing you sitting there at the control seat of
Speaker 1: the E. I B Network with Kick Carson and I
Speaker 1: think it was Brett winter Bull. It was like looking
Speaker 1: into the Starship Enterprise and seeing uh Spock and Kirk
Speaker 1: and Zulu and you guys were at the center of
Speaker 1: the universe. I mean at that time, this was so
Speaker 1: You've been doing the syndicated show with Rush for I
Speaker 1: think seven or eight years. You guys were the top
Speaker 1: of the world at that time, and you stayed there.
Speaker 1: That was the amazing thing. You stayed there for a
Speaker 1: long long time. Now, you already alluded to the to
Speaker 1: Rush when you came into w A b C and
Speaker 1: you saw him. What was it like the first time
Speaker 1: you met Rush? Well, I want to go back for
Speaker 1: the first time I heard Rush coming out of the
Speaker 1: speaker because That's a Kennedy like moment for me. I
Speaker 1: remember where I was and what I was doing when
Speaker 1: I first heard Rush Limbaugh coming out of the speaker.
Speaker 1: So I was the news director in Denver of Khal
Speaker 1: kho W and I had worked the morning ship. So
Speaker 1: I was driving home in the middle of the day
Speaker 1: and I was in the car right next to the
Speaker 1: Wiltshire Hills golf course when Rush comes out of the speaker.
Speaker 1: Apparently somebody was on vacation at k o A that
Speaker 1: day and Ed McLaughlin convinced them to try Rush for
Speaker 1: a day. Well, I was immediately blown away. I mean,
Speaker 1: this guy was saying things that I had been thinking
Speaker 1: in a way that I had never heard anybody before.
Speaker 1: And back at Khal, we had been thinking about going talk.
Speaker 1: We were still playing music back in and we we
Speaker 1: just didn't have the right talent. We needed horses to
Speaker 1: do it. And I drove back to the station, went
Speaker 1: into the g MS office right that moment, and I said,
Speaker 1: turn on k Away, You've got to hear this guy.
Speaker 1: He's the guy we need to get to build the
Speaker 1: station around. So he did, and he liked Rush, and
Speaker 1: he called his boss, the president of viacom Bill Figgenshu,
Speaker 1: and he asked Bill Figgenshu, could we grab this guy
Speaker 1: Rush Limbaugh. Apparently he's available. And Bill Figginshu said, you
Speaker 1: know what, that guy's not gonna make it. He was
Speaker 1: my roommate when we were both rock chocks at KQB
Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh, and he was a slab. He left half
Speaker 1: eaten pizza in boxes around the apartment. I don't think
Speaker 1: he's gonna make it. No, you cannot do that. He's
Speaker 1: not gonna make it. Well, of course we know the
Speaker 1: rest is history. Uh. But and and Bill Figgershu was
Speaker 1: a nice guy. He just missed it. A lot of
Speaker 1: people missed it on Rush Rising like he did. But
Speaker 1: you know, stations that picked up Rush back in the
Speaker 1: day would get massive complaints from listeners who just hated Rush.
Speaker 1: But what they didn't understand was that every time somebody
Speaker 1: hated Rush, two or three or four people fell in
Speaker 1: love with him, and by the time they started looking
Speaker 1: at the numbers, he was just like on fire. So
Speaker 1: by the time I got to W A. B C.
Speaker 1: And I was so honored to be the PD of
Speaker 1: a station with Rush. I mean I was in Detroit
Speaker 1: for four years trying to get Rush off the other station,
Speaker 1: and they were so loyal they wouldn't move him over
Speaker 1: to w j R, even though I was a fifty
Speaker 1: one flamethrower and he was on a pea shooter. They
Speaker 1: were loyal to that station. And I always admired that
Speaker 1: about how they built the Russia Limbaugh network. They were
Speaker 1: very loyal to those that went with them at the beginning.
Speaker 1: And so now you're at w ABC. You're the program
Speaker 1: director at w ABC. This is the flagship station. By
Speaker 1: the way, it was the flagship station, the most iconic
Speaker 1: call that is perhaps in the radio industry. And here
Speaker 1: you are program director and Russia Limbaugh is the lead
Speaker 1: show on w ABC. Now take use. What was it
Speaker 1: your first interactions with Rush? Well, the thing that amazed
Speaker 1: me about Rush was how humble he was. And I'll
Speaker 1: never forget walking down the hallway to his office to
Speaker 1: stick my head in and ask him about something. And
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I've only been there a few weeks,
Speaker 1: and I said, Rush, I just have to tell you
Speaker 1: what an honor it is for me to be the
Speaker 1: p D of w ABC, where you are our lead
Speaker 1: lead pony. And this has been a dream come true
Speaker 1: for me. I've been an admirer of you for years
Speaker 1: and now I get to work with you. And you know,
Speaker 1: he was embarrassed, he was humble. Uh. He didn't react
Speaker 1: the way I expected. Uh. And I saw him like
Speaker 1: that in many occasions. Here's Rush Limbaugh, the king of
Speaker 1: talk radio by that time, and he was always a
Speaker 1: little bit embarrassed and shy to be given that kind
Speaker 1: of high praise. And I admired that about him because
Speaker 1: he didn't take it for granted. He knew the humble
Speaker 1: beginning he had. You know, here's a guy that had
Speaker 1: been a rock jock. I mentioned Pittsburgh. He had been
Speaker 1: a rock jocks seven different places and fired seven different
Speaker 1: a M rockers. And I think he was probably fired
Speaker 1: because he wanted to talk. He didn't want to play rock.
Speaker 1: He wanted to talk, and the p d s said,
Speaker 1: drive him crazy, and they would eventually get tired of
Speaker 1: his talking and fire him until finally one day somebody said,
Speaker 1: you know, you need to be on a talk station.
Speaker 1: They put him on in Sacramento. The p D There
Speaker 1: is a friend of mine, Tyler Cox. He's the guy
Speaker 1: that put him on in Sacramento. I think it was
Speaker 1: KF B K and uh he just took off. He
Speaker 1: took off like Gangbusters. So yeah, it was a joy
Speaker 1: and an honor for me to to work with Rush
Speaker 1: and working with him in New York. Do you recall
Speaker 1: any story that stands out about the experience, that just
Speaker 1: stands in your mind? Is this maybe the singular story?
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry if I put you on the spot
Speaker 1: with that one, philm No, no you didn't. I to
Speaker 1: tell two stories, but the first one is what happened
Speaker 1: to me at w ABC one year into my fourteen
Speaker 1: year run there. So uh wait, wait, wait, wait what
Speaker 1: second home on my second Folks? A fourteen year run
Speaker 1: at any radio station for a program director is an
Speaker 1: amazing feat. I just wanted to insert that. It is.
Speaker 1: It's like a hundred years and dog years. And I'm
Speaker 1: convinced one of the reasons I lasted fourteen years was
Speaker 1: because I had Rush Limbaugh. Because with Rush Limbaugh, you
Speaker 1: could tear the station down to nothing. As long as
Speaker 1: you had Rush, you could rebuild it around Rush. And
Speaker 1: you know why, I know that I did that so
Speaker 1: and and it did take five years to build w
Speaker 1: ABC back. I didn't know if I get five years.
Speaker 1: You know, they treat us like NFL head football coaches.
Speaker 1: They hire you one year, they expect Super Bowl the next.
Speaker 1: It took me five years to rebuild the damage that
Speaker 1: we had done and bring in the talent like Hannity
Speaker 1: and Levin, and we got back to the most listen
Speaker 1: to the news talk station in the nation in two
Speaker 1: thousand one. And it was that year that I told
Speaker 1: Sean Hannity, we want to syndicate you after Rush Limbaugh,
Speaker 1: and I'm convinced that it's because of Russia limbaugh success.
Speaker 1: We were able to syndicate Hannity, and before long, Hannity
Speaker 1: became the fastest growing syndicated talk show host in history.
Speaker 1: Because what happened to Hannity was amazing because we syndicated
Speaker 1: him on and you know what happened on day two
Speaker 1: of Hannity in syndication. Happened and Sean knocked off Dr
Speaker 1: Laura a hundred places in six months. So he became
Speaker 1: the fastest growing syndicated host in history. Okay, Phil, So
Speaker 1: one question for you, as time quickly evaporates, what do
Speaker 1: you think Russia's legacy he will be not just in
Speaker 1: the radio industry, but in the largest sense for the country. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he'll go down as a icon of our time.
Speaker 1: I think he will go down much bigger than just
Speaker 1: the guy who we did talk radio and we launched
Speaker 1: talk radio, or the grandfather of talk radio. I think
Speaker 1: he'll be an icon of our time in his wisdom,
Speaker 1: in his knowledge, in the things that he said that
Speaker 1: resonated with people. The thing that I always will never
Speaker 1: forget is people who hear Rush for the first time
Speaker 1: say he's saying what I'm thinking, and nobody else is
Speaker 1: saying it for the first time. When he came on
Speaker 1: the scene, we realized we weren't alone those of us
Speaker 1: who thought this way. And today we need that kind
Speaker 1: of wisdom more than ever. Uh. We'll never forget Rush,
Speaker 1: will never forget the legacy, will never forget what he
Speaker 1: taught us, and will benefit from it for many many
Speaker 1: years to come. What was it like for you when
Speaker 1: you saw Rush being given the Middle of Freedom Award
Speaker 1: by President Trump? Well, I admit I teared up a
Speaker 1: little bit because I realized, first we're getting close to
Speaker 1: the end for Rush. I don't think I realized that
Speaker 1: till I saw him there. You know, he had just
Speaker 1: come out. I think of rehab or or some kind
Speaker 1: of cancer treatment when he went up on on the
Speaker 1: platform there at the Capitol, and uh, but to see
Speaker 1: them give him a standing ovation. And I know the
Speaker 1: Democrats didn't stand, but the Republicans did and showed him
Speaker 1: so much praise. But what really amazed me, Well, I
Speaker 1: talked about the humility of Russia Limbaugh. He was genuinely
Speaker 1: touched by that, and that I will never forget. Here's
Speaker 1: a guy who had it all, but you could still
Speaker 1: bring him to tears by giving him a much deserved
Speaker 1: honor and that meant a lot to a lot of people. Well,
Speaker 1: speaking of an honor, Phil, this is in a real
Speaker 1: honor for me. You have been one of the most
Speaker 1: incredible success stories of our time in the radio business.
Speaker 1: And more importantly to me, um than all of that,
Speaker 1: you are a great and decent human being. You treat
Speaker 1: people with respect, you treat people with kindness. You can
Speaker 1: be a demanding boss when you have to be. I
Speaker 1: know this from experience, but even in those circumstances, you
Speaker 1: do it without being demeaning and without making someone feel bad.
Speaker 1: And let me tell you, there are so many bad
Speaker 1: actors in that people come across during their careers. It
Speaker 1: is truly a pleasure and an honor to be to
Speaker 1: know someone that's really one of the good guys, and
Speaker 1: that's who you are. Well, now you're making me feel embarrassed,
Speaker 1: sort of like I made Rush feel embar us. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate you saying that. Uh, you know, you never
Speaker 1: know in this business. You know, we joked about fourteen
Speaker 1: years being a hundred years and dog years as a
Speaker 1: p D in this format, you never know when they're
Speaker 1: going to call you in and say that's it. Here's
Speaker 1: a box, put your stuff in it. Uh, and security's
Speaker 1: gonna escort you out. You really don't. And for me
Speaker 1: to be still in this business, still doing what I
Speaker 1: get to do, Uh, it's just an honor. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, look, I give credit to God. God wanted
Speaker 1: me here, He gave me this career and I'm honored
Speaker 1: to do it every day. And thank you so much
Speaker 1: for what you said, because James, you're the same way.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're You're one of the kindest, most decent
Speaker 1: people I've had the privilege of working with in this business.
Speaker 1: So let's let the good guys succeed. Amen to that.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Phil We really appreciate you that
Speaker 1: having you here. Thank you, James. What is American exceptional
Speaker 1: is just not that we're better people. It's not that
Speaker 1: we're smarter. It's not that we have an advantage because
Speaker 1: of our geography, because we clearly don't. But what what
Speaker 1: is it that sets us apart? And there's one answer,
Speaker 1: and it's found in the Declaration of Independence. We're all
Speaker 1: endowed by our Creator, so we acknowledge God as a
Speaker 1: country when we were founded, we acknowledge God that we
Speaker 1: were all created. We are rolling down by our Creator
Speaker 1: with certain inalienable rights, undeniable. They're just there and they
Speaker 1: come from the Creator among them, but not just life, liberty,
Speaker 1: pursuit of happiness. That's pretty simple to me. Those three things,
Speaker 1: the acknowledgement of our creation by God, loving God, that
Speaker 1: our creation, that our that our spirit has this natural
Speaker 1: yearning to be free and to be happy, and that
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with either of thom. There's nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with being created, nothing wrong with being happy or trying
Speaker 1: to be and there's certainly nothing wrong with living. It
Speaker 1: was that codification that made one crucial thing possible, and
Speaker 1: that is for ordinary people to accomplish extraordinary things. Not
Speaker 1: the smartest, not the brightest, not the wellborn, not the richest. Ordinary.
Speaker 1: This is a nation. It became the greatest nation in
Speaker 1: human history. However, many hundreds of thousands, billions, whatever years
Speaker 1: you want to say, we've been plotting the earth, ordinary
Speaker 1: people accomplishing extraordinary things. Thanks to Michael Harrison and Phil Boyce,
Speaker 1: coming up on our next and final episode of this series,
Speaker 1: loaded with special treats. First of all, the broad cast
Speaker 1: engineer for almost the entire length of the Russiland Black Program.
Speaker 1: Our good friend Mike Mamone joins us for a few moments. Plus,
Speaker 1: We're going to share the thoughts and words of many
Speaker 1: of those in Russia's world, whose voices you already know
Speaker 1: because they sat in the seat they were the guest
Speaker 1: host on the show. If that weren't enough, we have
Speaker 1: a very special v I P guest who will share
Speaker 1: his thoughts on Russia, lan Ball, none other than the
Speaker 1: forty President of the United States, Donald J. Trump, will
Speaker 1: join us for a few minutes as well. All that
Speaker 1: in our jam packed final episode, Russia. Limbaugh, The Man
Speaker 1: behind the Golden E I B Microphone, is produced by
Speaker 1: Chris Kelly and Phil Tower, the best producers in America,
Speaker 1: Production assistant Mike Mamone and the executive producers Craig Kitchen
Speaker 1: and Julie Talbot. Our program distributed worldwide by Premier Networks.
Speaker 1: Found on the I Heart Radio app or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite podcast. This is James Golden. This
Speaker 1: is both Snerdley, This is James Golden. I'm honored to
Speaker 1: be your host for this in every single episode of Russia. Lumbaugh,
Speaker 1: the man behind the Golden E I B microphone, thank
Speaker 1: you for being with us,