WEBVTT - Make better to-do lists, with Charlie Gilkey 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:09.280 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning. 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:14.840 This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:17.479 episode is going to be a longer one part of 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:20.800 the theories where I interview fascinating people about how they 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:24.119 take their days from great to awesome and any advice 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:26.759 they have for the rest of us. So today I 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:30.280 am delighted to welcome Charlie Guilkey to Before Breakfast. Charlie 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:33.519 is the owner of Productive Flourishing. He is also the 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:37.479 author of the book's Team Habits and Start Finishing. So Charlie, 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:38.360 welcome to the show. 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:40.640 Laura, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:41.200 be here today. 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:43.520 Yeah, well, why don't you tell our listeners a little 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:44.240 bit about yourself? 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.279 So I'll try to keep this brief. I am one 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:51.360 of those polymathic folks that like fall in a lot 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.360 of holes and figure out how I fell into it 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:55.800 and tell people how not to do that and then 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.440 get back out of it. You know, I've been I'm 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.080 kind of a dinosaur now on the only Internet. Turns out, 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:03.840 been doing this since the mid two thousands, you know, 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:07.840 writing about a variety of things from personal productivity to 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:11.920 teaming better to leading better, and so the span of 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:17.000 my work actually goes through all of those, and it 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.280 may or may not come up today given the format 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.360 of the show. But at heart, I'm more of a 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:26.240 philosopher figuring things out than an entrepreneur or sort of 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:28.000 writer in that sort of way. So most of this 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:31.959 sort of stuff is just me grappling with paradoxes and 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:34.479 hard problems and trying to make sense of it all. 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:38.920 Yeah, well, how did you land in this field of productivity? 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:39.080 Though? 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:41.520 I mean, one can follow all sorts of rabbit holes, 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:43.480 and I want maybe you can weave into this because 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.200 I understand you also had a military career before all 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:48.440 this as well. I wonder if that had any anything 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:49.080 to do with all this. 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:51.800 Well, that was very definitely how I got into this. 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.600 So I deployed in Supportive Operation I RACKI Freedom in 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:56.400 two thousand and four and two thousand and five, and 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:01.040 I was a logistics officer, and by the end of 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.600 my tour, I was, you know, the plans officer and 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.120 coordinating like lots of convoy movements in the theater, right, 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:10.520 And so I'd gotten really good at doing big things 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.320 and getting good stuff done in in tight timeframes. But 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:16.919 then I came back and got back into grad school. 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:21.360 So I'm a near PhD in philosophy, and after about 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.160 about a semester or two, I was like, you know, 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:27.000 here's the problem. Like I can do all this really 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.600 great stuff on the military side of things, but this 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:31.960 five thousand word essays kick to my butt, like what 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:36.359 is going on here? And so, like any good scholar 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:37.680 and officer would do, I was like, I'm not the 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.440 only person that has this problem, Like, surely someone else 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:42.480 has figured this out. So I started reading you know, 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:46.040 the classics the seven habits that getting things done, and 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:50.200 found that I was doing so much work translating them 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:54.080 for someone who was a polymathic creative person that I 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:55.399 was like, you know what, I'm just going to start 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:57.720 sharing this sort of stuff with other people. So, like 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:02.359 any good you know, you know, old millennial or young 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:04.519 gen X or what do I started a blog about it, right, 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:07.799 And so started writing about it, and you know, started 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:09.600 it really started helping people, and so more and more 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:11.680 people started asking me like, hey, will you help me 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:13.160 with my team, will you help me with my own 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.360 personal productivity? Will you help me in my business? And 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:17.160 it took off from there. So where I am now 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.280 was nowhere on the map in the mid two thousands, Like, 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.000 I had no idea that I could do it or 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:24.799 people like me could do it, And so yeah, it 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:29.800 just has been this emergent, fascinating adventure. Then I'm still 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:30.959 figuring out as go along. 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:34.120 Yeah. Absolutely, Well you said something interesting there. You use 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:37.960 the phrase personal productivity, and I understand from some things 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.120 you've written that you say that's a bit of a misnomer, 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.760 that productivity is kind of more of a team sport. 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:44.440 I mean, certainly that's the case, and you're, you know, 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.480 doing leading a lot of people in the military, for instance, 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:50.320 But that's the case in other context as well. 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:54.840 Yeah, it really is. And so unless you are you know, 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.360 Henry David throw living on Walding Pond or something like that, 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.640 you work with other people, well, you live with other people. 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:07.080 And fundamentally, productivity, in my view, is about becoming the 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.160 best version of yourself for thriving in the way that's 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.760 uniquely you, right, And to thrive you have to do 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:16.080 that in a social, economic, and political context, right, And 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:19.680 so I think so much of the personal productivity conversation 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.520 when people come to us, like people are taking a 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:27.200 lot of onus on themselves to sort of adopt a 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:30.080 hero complex that their own actions will change a lot 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:33.240 of things. But the reality is working and learning how 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:35.400 to work in teams, learning how to lead teams, learning 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.760 how to work with your family is actually where the 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.640 secret sauce of thriving and productivity really is. 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.960 Yeah, it's funny. Even throw I believe was having his 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:47.160 mom do his laundry or. 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.279 Something like that. Yeah. 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:55.760 Yeah, yeah, well so with productivity, you know, another topic 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:59.440 you've you've talked about is like time blocking and the 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:03.280 different types of blocks people might put into their days. 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.080 So I remember reading something about like focus blocks and 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:09.280 administration blocks and social blocks. I mean, because those are 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:11.600 you know, also we do and recovery blocks. Let's talk 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:12.120 about those. 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.520 Yeah, so thanks for bringing that up. So a focus 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.400 block is you know, if you're familiar with cow Newport's work, 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.400 you might call it a deep work block, but it's 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.080 really that block of time where you focus on one 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.360 thing at a time and really worked that third. Now, 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.320 the misnomber or the misconception people have is that they 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:29.919 can only do that one thing. So it's like I 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.760 can only be staring at the screen writing for that 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:34.560 amount of time. It's like, no, it's really all of 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:36.720 the processes that support that. So if you need to 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:39.120 get coffee and go to the bathroom make out lines, 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:42.000 that's still part of the block. And usually these blocks 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.040 are ninety to one hundred and twenty minutes long, because 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.560 that's really how long it takes to get into something 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:52.560 and make some substantial progress and then get out smoothly, insanely, right, 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:54.800 So ninety to one hundred and twenty minutes. There, social 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:56.800 blocks are what you are. What we're talking about. There 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:01.080 is like times in which you're open, available and sort 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:03.520 of in a good place to be peopling, right, And 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.520 that's not a universal thing. Some people are not. I 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:08.080 don't talk to them in the morning. Some people are 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:09.800 don't talk to them after three thirty, so you kind 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:13.159 of kind of know that. And again those are ninety 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:16.320 to one hundred and twenty minutes because what people forget 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.240 about is for any sort of one hour meeting, there's 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:21.640 about fifteen minutes ahead of time where you're sinking and 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.839 transitioning and getting into it, and then there's almost always 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:26.880 admin that comes on the back end of it that 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:29.880 you need to sort of process and get clear with right, 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:31.760 And if you don't schedule that or you don't think 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.920 about it that way, you end up with this wall 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:40.719 of admin and loose thoughts and scatteredness because you didn't 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.520 actually contain that time right. Admin blocks what they sound 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:46.080 like is where you're doing the emails, you're making the 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:48.640 quick phone calls, you're doing those types of things. Those 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:52.400 are thirty to sixty minutes long. Because one, most of 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:54.800 us don't want to spend all afternoon doing them, and 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:56.800 you'll start to rebel and jump to social media or 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:00.120 whatever your distraction is. But also it helps you focus 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.080 on what are the key things that I need to 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.039 be done and be proactive about it. Last, but not least, 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:08.839 are recovery blocks. So, Laura, when I started this gig, 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.880 I just assumed people would schedule recovery blocks and schedule 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:16.560 downtime and schedule stretch breaks and lunch. But then we've 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:17.840 done the work, you and I have done the work. 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:20.000 You know that's not happening. So it's like, okay, people, 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.640 let's make the obvious explicit. You need a recovery block. Now. 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:27.200 The thing about recovery blocks is that there's no set 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:30.480 amount of time and there's no set activity. It's what 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.480 it does for you that matters. So Laura might think 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.240 that CrossFit is recovery for her. Charlie does not. 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.560 Laura doesn't think that, Okay. 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:41.840 Well, you're the superstar here, so I have to build 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.320 up this myth that you're this superhuman. Right, so I'm 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:48.400 playing along, right, you know. But Laura might think, Charlie 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.920 might think, actually, just sitting down and outlining for five 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.040 minutes is a recovery block, just to get things out 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.440 of my brain. Right, So it doesn't matter what the 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:58.920 activity is, is what it does for you that matters. 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.200 And when you really think about time blocking, you have 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:05.560 to balance these in a way that fits your internal 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:10.640 and external demands and requirements and what fits your aspirations. 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.640 And what I'll say real quick is the limiting factor 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:18.480 to career and personal growth are going to be how 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.160 many focus blocks you have, because that's where you do 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.559 the work that matters most. And if you have zero 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.840 or too few, you're not going to be doing those things, 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:28.600 and you're going to get caught on that at on 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.840 that wheel where you're just getting through and you're getting by, 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:33.080 but you're not really getting ahead. 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:36.680 Yeah. Well, I'm curious what are your recovery blocks, Like, 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.079 what do you do to rejuvenate yourself. 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:42.600 I have a coffee shop that's about point nine miles away, 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:44.640 so I'll walk down to the coffee shop and get coffee, 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:46.760 and it's a forcing function for me to get away 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:50.600 from screens. I ride motorcycles because when I'm riding motorcycles, 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:54.480 I can't do anything but ride motorcycles, right, one hopes 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:59.360 I do. I have a like a rucksack that I'll 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.600 walk around and play video games, sort of mindless video 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.400 games that don't require a lot of thinking. Reading. I 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:07.719 have to be careful about writing, because writing is one 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.240 of those things where it very quickly turns from like 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.360 a soothing journalinge activity to all of a sudden, I've 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:17.360 been braining for three hours and it's backfired on me. Right, yeah, 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:21.240 so hiking outdoor stuff usually. The rule for me is 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:25.559 all my recovery blocks are away from screens as much 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:29.640 as possible in nature and as much as possible integrating movement. 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:32.840 Excellent, excellent. All right, We're going to take a quick 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:34.520 ad break and then I'll be back with more from 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:44.200 Charlie Gilkey. Well, I am back talking with Charlie Gilkey, 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.679 who is the owner of Productive Flourishing. So I want 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.240 to talk with you a little bit about to do lists. 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.200 I think you have talked about how people often get 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:58.360 to do lists wrong. So maybe we can talk a 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:00.840 little bit about the problems and then how we can 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:02.160 we can solve those problems. 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.199 Oh, the many problems of a to do list. I'm 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:09.000 going to start with some non obvious ones. Y'all use 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.560 a verb noun construct in your to do list, Like, 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.160 start it with a verb and have some now noun 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:18.319 on it. So don't just be like podcast podcast, What 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.000 what do I do with that podcast? 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:20.280 Right? 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:24.880 Yeah? Start the podcast, record, podcast, edit, podcast, whatever that is. 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.120 Don't just be like Jane, what are you doing with Jane? 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.200 Is it call Jane? Walk with Jane's like put a 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:31.920 verb in front of those And that's one of the 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.920 key things people do. Like when I see a list 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:37.160 someone's to do list and it's just a bunch of 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.920 nouns and random stuff, I'm like, I can't do this right, 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.600 I don't know how you're doing this. Verb noun constructs 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.679 win the day. The second thing is be careful that 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:50.280 you're not mixing too many sizes of action items on 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:51.880 the same to do list. So I'll also look at 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:53.959 people to do list and I'll have like a year 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.400 sized project and a month sized project in like three 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.040 five minute calls. And like, I'm like your brain and 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.880 every time you do that, can't really understand what needs 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.280 to happen. And our brains actually do not process multiple 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.640 spaces of time at the same time very well. Right, 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.360 So this is like your today's list. Keep it focused 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.480 to like two hour blocks of time and task that 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:20.680 you're going to do, right, don't have the bigger project 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.880 segment on there. The other thing I'd say here is 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.080 on your to do list. And I'm realizing how obvious 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.080 this may sound to many of your listeners. Lord, given 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:31.720 what you're doing, be very clear about like what you 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:36.360 must do versus what you might get to right, be curtical, 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.520 and usually it's like for most people, three to five 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:41.680 things on that to do list are going to happen. 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:45.600 Anything else above that is probably magical thinking unless you've 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:50.400 done a really really good job of like stacking six 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.000 admin blocks behind each other and you're really on top 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.280 of that. But that sort of unstructured seventeen things to 0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:01.240 do list, it is a for failure. And I think 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:03.560 the last time, the last thing they'll say here is 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.199 write your to dos your action items is if you're 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:11.400 writing them to someone else, right, because odds are a 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:13.280 lot of those to do's aren't going to get done. 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:17.520 Odds are what you wrote Monday three weeks ago. You 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.560 might not remember Thursday, right three yeks later. So if 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:22.360 you write it as if you're writing it to someone 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:24.440 else when you come back to that to do list, 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:26.559 when you come back to that action item, it will 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.000 actually still make enough sense for you to push it forward. 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.160 So I also saw that you, I mean, you had 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:36.200 a list on your website of productive flourishing of verbs 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.079 that are associated with different time frames. And I found 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.320 this fascinating because it's you know, when you have a 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.520 verb that's a project that's really a month long project, right, 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:50.400 like launch something, right, That's that's probably not a today 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:54.880 kind of thing, whereas call somebody is a today thing? 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:55.400 Right? 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:57.720 So I mean, like, what are what are the big 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.000 verbs for big chunks of time and how can we reckon? 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:01.200 And small ones? 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:02.880 Yeah, so if you wanted to google that, wan, it'll 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.960 be thirty seven verbs for your action items. So if 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.240 you type productor flourishing thirty seven verbs you'll find it. 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.400 But yeah, that was the brain gasm that I had 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:12.640 while writing Start Finishing. I was like, wait a second. 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:14.920 There are certain verbs that just tell you what size 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:19.600 the project is, right, so call email right ship, right, 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.640 those types of things. Those are probably task related verbs 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:24.360 of something that you could do and probably twenty minutes 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:24.760 or less. 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:24.960 Right. 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.920 Great, But whenever you get to like, you know, publish 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.400 with the big p like publish my book, you're you're 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:35.000 already talking about meaning quarters in years, right, as opposed 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.920 to publish a blog post, which, if you're in that 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:41.679 groove and you have that competency, may actually be a task. 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.200 But if it's you know, published the ultimate guide to 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:48.480 you know, productivity, that might be a month long project, right, 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.480 really might. So launch is one of those words. Initiate 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:57.880 is one of those big project words. Research can sometimes 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:00.000 go either way, Like if you're researching on a big product, 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:02.400 that's probably I am on side of things, you know, 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.640 I would just say, like, be very look at the verb, 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.720 whatever verbs you use, because there's only really like the 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.880 other thing about this is in the English language, there 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:18.160 actually aren't that many task verbs right or action verbs. 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:19.600 So if you really look at the verbs that's on 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:23.240 your to do list, ask yourself how big of what 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:25.920 size of work is that telling me that this is 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.400 how big is this chunk? And a just accordingly. 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.920 Excellent good advice. So, Charlie, I'm wondering if you have 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.920 any routines that help make you more productive. I know 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.320 you advise lots of people, but what do you kind 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:41.040 of swear by in your day to day life. 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.000 Okay, so I have to start that one with the 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.520 fact that I'm a lion chronotype, which consider that's the 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.560 early bird right there in the old models. I'm an 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.600 early riser, and so that means morning routines are going 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:53.600 to be really important for me. And my morning routine 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:57.280 this has gotten pretty long by the time I careporate, 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.720 physical recovery and just all the sort of things. And 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:03.200 so you know, by the time I listen to a meditation, 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:05.960 by the time I sort of reflect and contemplate on 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:07.720 the day, by the time I journal, and then by 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:09.520 the time I go on the coffee walk, all like, 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.400 all that's part of my morning routine. It might be 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:16.320 ninety minutes to two hours right of just doing that. Now, 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:21.040 listeners y'all know, Laura is way better about productivity when 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.280 you have kids. So that might not work for folks 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.240 who have a lot of kids, but it does work 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.160 for me. And that's the question, right. I also have 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.160 end of day routines, like before I just sort of 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.040 slide out and say I'm done, Like what did I 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.720 get done? What didn't get done? What do I need 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:37.440 to kick tomorrow? What can I just let go of? 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.360 And so those end of day routines. I talk about 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:43.160 it as the ten to fifteen split, whereas you stake 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.760 ten minutes in the morning to review the plan that 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.080 you made for yourself in the last fifteen minutes of 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.440 the day prior. Because it turns out that end of 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:57.360 day you it's probably the more sane and discerning version 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.800 of you, especially if you're a lying rightly, so it 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.520 actually does a better job of making priorities and plans 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.480 for the next day. Then early morning you that's got 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.720 all the energy and all the coffee and all the 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:13.080 exuberants for forty five minutes and then reality creeps back in. Right, 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.080 So if you do that sort of process, yes, yes 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.800 it's twenty five minutes a day, but it's a way 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.080 better activity to do than just default into email or 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.800 social media, and it helps you get ever better about 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.320 seeing what you can actually do in today versus what's 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.080 delusional thinking, Yeah. 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:33.680 People have that first cup of coffee, they can conquer 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.760 the world, and then discover later in the day that 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:38.120 that might not be the case. 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.280 The world is formidable. It turns out the. 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.160 World will kick back by the end end of the 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.880 day for sure. Is there anything you've tried that hasn't 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:48.560 worked for you? 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:54.440 Ooh yes, Like usually I'll let it go very very quickly, 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:58.160 So let me see if I can think of This 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.280 is a hard one because I move on very very 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.320 quickly from things that don't work, So I can think 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:04.840 of a lot of tools that don't work for me. 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:09.560 And why so I'll flip this because this actually came 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:14.159 up today. I have returned to the fact that I 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:19.679 need persistent visual cues for my goals. So actually that 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:21.359 would be a good way of saying it. Just keeping 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.000 my goals and priorities in a digital to do list, 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:26.639 and I have like, I actually have an app for this, 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.479 like does not work for me? Right, I need it 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:31.840 on a whiteboard, I need it on a sticky note. 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.600 I need those sort of month size, quarter size, year 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:38.480 sized goals to stay persistent and in my visual field 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:41.679 and not just in some app that I got to 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:43.800 remember to go look for. So that does not work 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.879 for me at all. May just be because I'm gen X, 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.520 but like I just think our brains were diluted with 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.400 so much we are in a day loage of digital 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:56.760 information that we don't retain it anymore. But those persistent 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:01.280 goals aspirations value is that I will place around the 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.679 house are really important to me. And the reason I 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.359 don't have them is actually earlier this year, my wife 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:10.600 and I switched switched home offices, and so I took 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.679 everything to the essential and minimal to see what actually 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:17.880 worked and what didn't work. And have realized seven months 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.679 into this experiment that not having those goals, of not 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.000 having the whiteboards was one of those things. Was like, oh, 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.720 that's why I'm scattered and more unfocused and don't know 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:27.440 where I'm going. Just didn't have it in my visual 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:28.919 field all day. Now. 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:31.800 That's fascinating though, that you guys switched home offices. I'm 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:36.280 so curious what led to that, because I'm guessing a 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:38.679 lot of people don't do that you kind of claimed 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.120 your spot, and especially if people like started working from 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.680 home during the pandemic, each of you chose your home 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.040 office spot and it never gets changed. So what led 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:47.320 to this? 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.000 Environmental factors? So my wife is much more sensitive to sun, 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.640 and I'm in the office that gets the most sun, 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.880 and it's an annoyance for me most days. And so 0:18:57.920 --> 0:18:59.440 we just had this sort of simple idea. It's like, 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.560 why don't to take the south facing office right that's 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:04.400 got the sun and you can do your work there, 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.080 and then I'll take the back when that's darker and quieter, 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.360 and you know, seem to be more of a nook 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:12.960 sort of thing. I love working in sort of libraries 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.680 and sort of tight spots, and so we tried it, 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.240 but then just realized there were other environmental factors that 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.480 we didn't consider, like all the kids that play in 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:24.760 the backyard surrounding ours and how loud they are all day. 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.919 She's able to tune them out. I am not right. Also, 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.720 it turns out that her office, she doesn't work in 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.280 her office as persistently as I do. She works around 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.040 the house. I root in the office, but it's right 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.600 above the kitchen, and so all day, there's like, you know, 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:43.200 kitchen noise and all sorts of things, and I turns 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.040 out I didn't know how sensitive to noise I was 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.359 in that way, and I don't want to be like 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:50.879