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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host

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Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,

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Speaker 1: and today on the show we are talking about animal doctors.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they're not real medical doctors, but medicine and healo

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Speaker 1: monsters heal thyself anyways, we're talking about medical discoveries that

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Speaker 1: have been drawn from the evolutionary biology of animals. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about animal research, not in the sense of the

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Speaker 1: incredible sacrifice of say, mice, but actual evolutionary advantages that

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Speaker 1: animals have that we learn from to directly create life saving,

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Speaker 1: life changing medicines. From heala monsters who are a lot

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Speaker 1: sweeter than they sound, to all sorts of deadly venom,

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Speaker 1: and of course the age old question how do giraffes work?

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Speaker 1: Joining me today is front of the show Real Life gastor,

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Speaker 1: entrologist and host of the medical podcast House a Pod

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Speaker 1: Cave Hodo.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, Hey, thank you so much for having me back.

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Speaker 2: I have to say, though I did not come prepared

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Speaker 2: when you said it was going to be about animal doctors.

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Speaker 2: I thought you meant like dogs and crocodiles in lab

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Speaker 2: coats helping other animals, or maybe even treating humans like

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Speaker 2: doctors that were animals. And this is I'm not I

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Speaker 2: didn't prepare. I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 1: I uh, it's it's all about Doggy Houser MD. No, sadly,

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Speaker 1: I would. I would definitely be interested in a giraffe

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Speaker 1: doctor kind of coming in with a giant stethoscope, and

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Speaker 1: that would instantly put me at ease. I meant it

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Speaker 1: more of that, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It would be amazing. Also the tie question, because copper

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Speaker 2: bottom not only well, clearly the bottom okay, because that's

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Speaker 2: a silly question to me because it's just a really

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Speaker 2: long neck. But the problem is, you know those ties,

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Speaker 2: they're terrible for fomites, and I don't recommend doctors wear

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Speaker 2: them if you're in the clinical setting because that tie

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Speaker 2: just brushes across everything. And imagine how bad that would

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Speaker 2: be with a with a giraffe. It will be like

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Speaker 2: a trump level tie just sweeping across the serengetti, picking

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Speaker 2: up like foumtes and transmitting it to patients. A terrible idea.

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Speaker 1: You think if elephants were doctors, like would they where

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Speaker 1: would you put the mask?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: The face mask? Because they've got the trunk which is

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Speaker 1: what I assume they're using for all the surgeries. So

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Speaker 1: do they put a mask like on the tip of

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Speaker 1: the trunk, which but then the tip of their trunk

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Speaker 1: is basically a hand, So then do they just wash it?

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Speaker 2: Wow, that is an excellent question. I'm going to have

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Speaker 2: to say, they put a sterile boy, how would they breathe? Yeah? No,

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Speaker 2: I don't think they can be surgeons because their breathing

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Speaker 2: apparatus is also essentially their hands, actile their hand, and

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Speaker 2: we don't have the technology yet for breathable sterile gloves. So,

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Speaker 2: and I'm not saying because I've tried to put a

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Speaker 2: glove over my head or anything, I'm not saying I've

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Speaker 2: done that. Maybe I have, maybe I haven't. But you

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Speaker 2: can't breathe well in those things, so I don't recommend that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I'm sorry elephants out there. Yeah, I know

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Speaker 2: I'm being ablest elephant. I don't think you're ready to

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Speaker 2: be surgeons.

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Speaker 1: There's an elephant listening to this. His dreams have been crushed.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna get canceled for that.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately. No, we're not talking about adorable animals who are

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Speaker 1: your doctors, but we are talking about the ways in

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Speaker 1: which evolutionary changes in animals, these advantages that they have

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Speaker 1: actually give inspiration to human medical researchers and help them

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Speaker 1: make these fantastic discoveries, either directly from the animal or

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Speaker 1: inspired by the biology of the animal. So the first

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Speaker 1: one we're going to talk about, I think is it's

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Speaker 1: a very relevant thing because it's it's like the medicine doujour.

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Speaker 1: It is about heala monsters and the way that they

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Speaker 1: led to the discovery of oziepic or semaglue tide, the

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Speaker 1: more generic drug.

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Speaker 2: I think it's I think that's fascinating. I think it

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Speaker 2: really in and of itself is a fascinating topic. But

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Speaker 2: I think, particularly in this day and age, when research

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Speaker 2: is so under fire and our research systems, our healthcare systems,

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Speaker 2: the whole scientific infrastructure of the United States is being

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Speaker 2: sort of dismantled actively, I think it's really important to

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Speaker 2: take a look at something like this and be like, Hey,

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Speaker 2: this very important medication that's really commonly used and people

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Speaker 2: love started from some research that probably seems silly to somebody. Rightly,

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Speaker 2: somebody probably saw I'm you're probably gonna talk about this,

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Speaker 2: But like I think it's so important to be like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is why, like this random study that we did

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Speaker 2: ten twenty years ago in the helo monster saliva, you know,

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Speaker 2: is actually super important because at the time people were like,

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Speaker 2: we're spending five million dollars on the the sex identity

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Speaker 2: of the helo monster. Yeah, you know, like we're spending

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Speaker 2: twenty million on spit of a lizard. Yeah, and like

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Speaker 2: someone's getting crazy about that. But this is what can

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Speaker 2: happen with research, with studies.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly why we're talking about this today because it

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Speaker 1: is something where we have all sorts of research going on,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of it like will not make the

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Speaker 1: news until there is something, as I guess sensational and

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Speaker 1: revolutionary is something like semaglue tide. But meanwhile, the way

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Speaker 1: that we came upon this drug, it was not just

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Speaker 1: like this accidental one day, you know, you're mixing chemicals

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Speaker 1: in a lab and oh, drug happens. It's from years

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Speaker 1: and years, decades of rece and in this particular case,

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Speaker 1: it was from decades of research done on HeLa monsters,

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Speaker 1: which are a type of lizard a reptile found in

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Speaker 1: the southwestern United States as well as in Sonora, Mexico,

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Speaker 1: and they are like in of in themselves. They're fascinating

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Speaker 1: little creatures, like I love them so much. But in

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Speaker 1: addition to being amazing animals, they have revolutionized human medicine,

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Speaker 1: the treatment of diabetes, the obviously with o zimbic weight loss.

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Speaker 1: But like you said, it's from these studies that when

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Speaker 1: you first look at them, it's like, why do we

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Speaker 1: care about HeLa monster venom? It's bad for you, end

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Speaker 1: of study, right, helo monster venom. Don't get bitten by

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Speaker 1: a HeLa monster. It's gonna hurt. Like, why would we

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Speaker 1: need to study that? That's ridiculous. But in fact, these

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Speaker 1: studies that seem strange, right, Like I remember these kind

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Speaker 1: of anti science people were complaining about, Oh, there's all

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Speaker 1: these studies done on birds song, why don't we care?

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Speaker 1: Why do we care about that? Where in reality, like

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Speaker 1: studies done on birdstrong and the crystallization of learning has

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Speaker 1: huge implications for say like human learning. Even things like

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Speaker 1: Alzheimer's are all sorts of things that are not immediately

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Speaker 1: obvious from these studies that can become revolutionary and life

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Speaker 1: changing and life saving for people. And so yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: exactly what we're going to talk about today is all

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Speaker 1: of these discoveries, these these animals that have led to discoveries,

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Speaker 1: and then the people behind them, and the laboratories and

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Speaker 1: the research institutes behind them. So heal monsters. It's actually

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Speaker 1: if you're googling this you want a picture of them.

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Speaker 1: It is spelled gila, so it looks like it should

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Speaker 1: be pronounced gel a monster, but it's actually pronounced hel

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Speaker 1: a monster. They're actually really beautiful lizards. They have this

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Speaker 1: black and orange coloration. They have bumpy skin, this kind

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Speaker 1: of like stout, chunky body. I think they're cute. I

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Speaker 1: think most things are cute, but this one just has

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Speaker 1: kind of like a little stoutness to it that I

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Speaker 1: think makes it cute. They store a lot, do you think?

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Speaker 2: Will you be honest with me, Are there any animals

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Speaker 2: that you don't think are cute? You're not going to

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Speaker 2: hurt their feels?

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Speaker 1: I really hate silverfish. The insect the insect uh huh.

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Speaker 1: I don't like cockroaches. They gross me out. Let's see

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Speaker 1: what else is not cute?

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Speaker 2: Anything not insect base that you don't think is cute.

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Speaker 2: I'm asking for hot take here for this show. In particular,

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Speaker 2: but I'm wondering what is.

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Speaker 1: Not gosh, what is a not cute non insect? And

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Speaker 1: also most insects are cute. That's a really good question

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Speaker 1: really to me. Most insects are cute.

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Speaker 2: But you see a close up of an ant's face,

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Speaker 2: it's terrifying.

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Speaker 1: It's yeah, that's pretty neat. But then when you zoom out,

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Speaker 1: they're cute little babies. Also, if you zoom into a

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Speaker 1: tartar grade, then they become cute, and then you zoom

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Speaker 1: in even more are terrifying. So there's like different levels

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Speaker 1: of zoom where it's like you zoom out from a

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Speaker 1: tartar grade, you can't see it, so it's nothing. It's

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Speaker 1: not cute, it's not ugly, it's nothing. You zoom in

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh, it's like a chubby little teddy bear.

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Speaker 1: And then you zoom in even more and it's like

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Speaker 1: a dune sandworm.

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Speaker 2: There's something about that that's really I think important for life.

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Speaker 2: Like life is if you zoom to the wrong level,

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Speaker 2: absolutely terrifying. If you zoom in or out to like

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Speaker 2: the right level, like because if you're at the level

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Speaker 2: that most of us are right now in zoom, what's

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Speaker 2: happening in this country is terrifying. But you know, if

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Speaker 2: I zoom way way out to where we're just like

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Speaker 2: a globe that's floating in space, it's not so terrifying.

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Speaker 2: I zoom way way into like this cup of coffee

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Speaker 2: I'm having, then it's also good, but anywhere between is terrifying.

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Speaker 1: Also, focal length, it's very important for selfies. Like if

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Speaker 1: you take a selfie and you're like, ah, look awful,

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Speaker 1: probably a bad focal length. Don't worry about it.

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Speaker 2: So right, right, yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's all no, no, it's all. It all ties in together,

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Speaker 1: putting that, putting that on my corkboard of sanity over there.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, they are these beautiful lizards. They're bumpy, they're

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Speaker 1: they kind of have all of these little bumps, all

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Speaker 1: of them, these like little uh pearl like protrusions. Uh.

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Speaker 1: That's actually why their Latin name Hiloderma suspect them. The

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Speaker 1: Heloderma in their name is like it stands for studded skin.

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Speaker 1: Suspectum is a funny part of their name, and that

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Speaker 1: is because the guy who discovered these was like, I

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Speaker 1: suspect they might be venomous based on their teeth, and

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Speaker 1: he was right, but sometimes scientists, Yeah, just like I

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Speaker 1: suspect you're you're suspicious, So your name is Hiloderma, suspect them,

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Speaker 1: but yeah it's sus It's a sus lizard. Uh yeah.

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Speaker 1: But those little protrusions are called osteoderms. They're actually bony deposits,

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Speaker 1: so they they're like calcium deposits. They're little. They're not

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Speaker 1: really made of you know, epithelial tissue. They're made out

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Speaker 1: of bony deposits, which is kind of interesting. So they're

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Speaker 1: lumpy and bumpy and very cute in my opinion. Now,

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Speaker 1: they are rather venomous, so they have this apisomatic coloration,

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Speaker 1: meaning warning coloration, So they have the bright orange, the black,

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Speaker 1: and this kind of beautiful striated pattern on their backs.

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Speaker 1: But the purpose of that is to warn predators like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you'd better not like, I'm pretty toxic. And they are

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Speaker 1: quite venomous, so they have these sharp teeth that can

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Speaker 1: inject venom. They also have very foul breath apparently that

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Speaker 1: goes along with it, and pioneers thought that because their

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Speaker 1: breath was kind of bad, they thought that they could

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Speaker 1: kill either with their breath. Just the stinkiness of their

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Speaker 1: breath or also kill with their bite with the venom.

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Speaker 2: Can I ask question, am I confusing the HeLa monster

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Speaker 2: with the Komodo dragon in that they bite their prey

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Speaker 2: and it causes an infection that later kills their prey

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Speaker 2: and when they catch up to them. Is that the

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Speaker 2: Komodo dragon?

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Speaker 1: That is the that is about like that idea is

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Speaker 1: about the Komodo dragon. The Komodo dragon does have venom,

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Speaker 1: and the idea that of the infection that's largely it's

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Speaker 1: not exactly accurate because what happens is that the Komodo

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Speaker 1: dragon will bite its prey and it'll try to take

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Speaker 1: down its prey like right then and there, but often

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Speaker 1: the prey will escape and the Komodo dragon has this

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Speaker 1: amazing sense of smell, so it can just track its prey.

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Speaker 1: And what prey animals often do in response to being

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Speaker 1: tracked like that or being injured, as they'll go into

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Speaker 1: a body of water and so they will have this

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Speaker 1: big wound. They'll go into the body of water because

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Speaker 1: they're trying to avoid the predator. And so that's where

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Speaker 1: this idea comes from. That because then once they have

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Speaker 1: that big wound and they go into the water, they

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Speaker 1: can get a pretty nasty infection which could kill them

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Speaker 1: even if the Komodo dragon doesn't find them. But generally speaking,

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Speaker 1: the komodo dragon is an injecting it with venom with

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Speaker 1: these like powerful toxins. It will track it down if

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Speaker 1: it runs off, just like if a hunter shoots a

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Speaker 1: deer and the deer runs off, you track it down

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Speaker 1: to try to find it, but usually it is simply

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Speaker 1: killed by the komodo dragon. Man, I'm not bought necessarily

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Speaker 1: by an infection, but you do have these cases where

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Speaker 1: even if it evades the komodo dragon and it tries

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Speaker 1: to go into a body of water to sort of

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Speaker 1: like hide from it, it can also die from infection.

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Speaker 1: So that's where that idea comes from. Heala monsters are

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Speaker 1: quite a bit smaller. They're only they weigh about two pounds.

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Speaker 1: They're about a foot long, so that's about eight hundred grams,

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Speaker 1: and they do they are predators, but they eat very

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Speaker 1: small things, so rodents, little invertebrates, other lizards, reptiles, And

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Speaker 1: it's actually thought because their prey is so small and

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Speaker 1: relatively helpless, that the venom is not really necessary for

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Speaker 1: their hunting, and it's mostly defensive, like so that they

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Speaker 1: can bite predators, anything that would try to make a

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Speaker 1: meal out of them. Because they're, you know, only only

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Speaker 1: two pounds, they could possibly be eaten by something. And

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Speaker 1: they also eat eggs, so they kind of they're a

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Speaker 1: lot more chill, I would say, than something like a

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Speaker 1: Kimodo dragon. They really just like to eat and sleep.

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Speaker 1: And even though technically they are dangerous for people in

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Speaker 1: the sense that if you're bitten by one, you really

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Speaker 1: need to get medical attention because their venom is quite powerful,

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Speaker 1: they very very rarely kill people. It's something that's easily treated.

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Speaker 1: It is not generally deadly. The only cases that have

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Speaker 1: resulted in fatalities for healthy adult human beings is that

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Speaker 1: is when someone doesn't go to get treatment, if the

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Speaker 1: treatment's mismanaged or I guess there was a couple of

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Speaker 1: cases where someone was like really really drunk, uh, and so,

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Speaker 1: which would explain why they're getting bitten by a heal

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Speaker 1: monster probably picking it like.

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Speaker 2: What was and again, yeah, so yeah, that's that is

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Speaker 2: very cool. That is very neat. I also would like

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Speaker 2: credit for not making and in this economy joke when

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Speaker 2: you brought up eggs. I would like credit for that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the main the main threat, the main threat to

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Speaker 1: healo monsters right now is inflation egg inflation. Uh, their bit.

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Speaker 2: It's like jazz. It's the jokes you don't make, you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: It's it's the negative space around the jokes that make

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Speaker 1: it funny. The venom is apparently extremely painful though, so

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Speaker 1: you don't really want to get bitten by. Some YouTuber

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Speaker 1: who got himself bitten by one of these called it

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Speaker 1: like it felt like lava in his veins or something.

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Speaker 1: But honestly, you know, if you're a YouTuber and you

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Speaker 1: intentionally seek out these bites, I don't have a huge

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Speaker 1: amount of sympathy, but yeah, so it can be very painful,

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Speaker 1: but it's general. These guys generally do not kill people.

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Speaker 1: It's only in very rare, very sort of freak incidents

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Speaker 1: that they'll kill people. And also they just don't bite.

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Speaker 1: They don't they don't want to bite you unless you

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Speaker 1: really mess with them because they just want to eat

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Speaker 1: a lot and sleep a lot. That is their whole

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Speaker 1: life plan.

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Speaker 2: You're making a good argument for their adorability and their friendliness,

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Speaker 2: and I'm keeping an open mind. I mean, the cookie

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Speaker 2: monster is a monster. And he's adorable wit and it's

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Speaker 2: in his name, So I get it. You're you're making

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Speaker 2: a good argument.

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Speaker 1: They are kind of cookie monsters because they they really

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Speaker 1: love snacking. So juveniles are able to eat fifty percent

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Speaker 1: of their body weight in one sitting, like one meal,

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Speaker 1: so that's like half half of their whole body weight

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Speaker 1: in one meal. Adults can eat over thirty percent of

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Speaker 1: their body weight in a single meal. So they all

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Speaker 1: just eat huge meals and then they don't have to

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Speaker 1: eat for weeks or months at a time. They're just

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Speaker 1: napping and trying to stay out of trouble in the meantime.

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Speaker 1: Not bad, yeah, sunbathing, napping and eating just huge amounts

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Speaker 1: just like it's it really is the life. And it's

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Speaker 1: also that whole that ability of theirs to eat a

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Speaker 1: huge amount and then just kind of loaf around and

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Speaker 1: digest it really slowly is the whole reason that they

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Speaker 1: have led to the discovery of semaglutide o zebic, the

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Speaker 1: GLP one agonist. So this comes from a hormone in

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Speaker 1: heala monsters, so they can slow down their digestion, their

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Speaker 1: metabolism and eat just a few meals a year, and

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Speaker 1: so this Also, in addition, this very slow metabolism means

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Speaker 1: that their relatively long lived lizard and captivity, they can

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Speaker 1: live up to about forty years, so they have this

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Speaker 1: really fantastic slow digestion, slow gastric emptying. You can probably

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Speaker 1: kind of see where I'm going with this if you

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Speaker 1: know anything about semaglue tide, so xendon four is a

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Speaker 1: peptide derived from the heel monster venom, and it can

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Speaker 1: be used as a GLP one receptor agonist. Which, don't worry,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to explain these things because or maybe I'll

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Speaker 1: get caved up explain them because I think he probably

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Speaker 1: knows about them a little more than I do.

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Speaker 2: So you're doing great, Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that. But I'm also lazy, So tell tell

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Speaker 1: the listeners what is the What is a GLP one

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Speaker 1: receptor agonist?

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Speaker 2: So some of glue tide this medication that you're taught

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Speaker 2: talking about these things like ozembic with go V and

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Speaker 2: I think the other one is Rebel says, I forget

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Speaker 2: the actual name of it, but what it is, it's

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Speaker 2: a medication that mimics the action of the GLP one hormone.

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Speaker 2: And what that does is it helps regulate your blood

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Speaker 2: sugar levels. It reduces the appetitis you mentioned, and a

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Speaker 2: big part of that is by slowing down gastric emptying,

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Speaker 2: which means the way your stomach normally works is you know,

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Speaker 2: it digested things, it's smashing things up, it's putting in

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Speaker 2: all the right stuff to break down with acid the

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Speaker 2: food that you're eating, and then it empties into your

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Speaker 2: small intestine. And this is all part of a normal process.

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Speaker 2: And when your stomach's empty, that helps trigger your hunger.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that go into hunger, but

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Speaker 2: that's one of them. And then if you have slow emptying,

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Speaker 2: if things are just slow down in your gut, that

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Speaker 2: can be a problem for some people. But it's also

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Speaker 2: a way to reduce people's appetites and what's happening here.

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Speaker 2: So it's actually pretty effective for helping with weight loss,

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Speaker 2: it's pretty effective for controlling blood sugar. And now you know,

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Speaker 2: we give it to patients as weekly injections. This other

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Speaker 2: one as a tablets roybelsis but I don't it's not

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Speaker 2: quite as common yet, So it's actually we're probably gonna

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Speaker 2: find this isn't aside, but I think over the coming

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Speaker 2: years We're probably gonna find more uses for it. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's people who are studying its use for alcohol cravings

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Speaker 2: and alcohol use disorder, so we might find other things

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Speaker 2: that go along with it. But the major thing it's

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Speaker 2: gonna do, as you mentioned with humans here, is in

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Speaker 2: terms of weight loss, to slow down the way your

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Speaker 2: gut moves things through. So because of that, you can

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Speaker 2: also get side effects from it. There are people who

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Speaker 2: are gonna get nausea, vomiting, might even get like constantpation

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Speaker 2: or even diarrhea or some alternation of the two. There's

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Speaker 2: some serious risks that can happen. It's pretty rare, but

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Speaker 2: problems with the thyroid, pancreatitis or inflammation of your pink risk.

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Speaker 2: I've seen gall bladders that have had stones before they

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Speaker 2: started the medication become inflamed because of the stones because

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Speaker 2: things aren't moving the way they should. There's like a

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Speaker 2: little bit more chance of infection there. So there's some

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Speaker 2: serious risk too with these medications. But that is the

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Speaker 2: basic overview of semiglue tides and what they're doing for

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Speaker 2: you here in these medications.

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Speaker 1: Right, And it's like any medication, right, you kind of

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Speaker 1: have to weigh the potential benefits with the risks, right,

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Speaker 1: like if you that's right, yeah, diabetes, and you need

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Speaker 1: it to regulate your blood sugar. The risks of the

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Speaker 1: medication may be outweighed by the benefits you get, or

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Speaker 1: you know, if you really really need help with weight loss,

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Speaker 1: and like nothing else has worked, and it's affecting your

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Speaker 1: health as long as you tolerate it well, as long

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Speaker 1: as the side effects are not so grave, like it

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Speaker 1: might be something you want to take. But and it's

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Speaker 1: also very individual, right, like some people will respond better

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Speaker 1: to it than others. It's it's not like a mirror.

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Speaker 1: There's not like a miracle pill that makes everyone better.

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Speaker 2: But it's that's exactly right. And I think that's a

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Speaker 2: really great point, is that every it has to be

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Speaker 2: tailored for the person, and it's not for everybody, and

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Speaker 2: there should always be with any medication. There should be

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Speaker 2: some risk and benefit analysis that somebody is doing. And

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Speaker 2: everything has some risk, there's no doubt. So and it's

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Speaker 2: it's not perfect, but you know it is. It does

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Speaker 2: seem to be helpful, and so far all the studies

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Speaker 2: show that works, and we see it in plenty of patients,

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Speaker 2: and you see it and I'm sure everyone knows somebody

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Speaker 2: at this point who has lost weight on one of

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Speaker 2: these medications, so that that benefit in the long run

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Speaker 2: in terms of their health probably outweighs the risks for

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Speaker 2: most people, but not everyone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, it's for sure an individual thing. I

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Speaker 1: also have to emphasize, like, please don't find a heal

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Speaker 1: a monster and like have it bite you. That will

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Speaker 1: not work. It will not it won't be the same.

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Speaker 1: I know it's tempting because of drug prices.

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Speaker 2: In the US so much cheaper.

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Speaker 1: Our terrible healthcare system, and it seems like it might

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Speaker 1: seem like a good time, a good idea, especially if

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Speaker 1: you're really drunk. But don't do that. The heal a

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Speaker 1: monster doesn't want to be involved in that. And also

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Speaker 1: it will just hurt a lot and cause.

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Speaker 2: You problems only a matter of time, as funny as

402
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Speaker 2: it sounds, but before like the raw milk community gets

403
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Speaker 2: to like fresh helo, oh my.

404
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: God, oh no, oh no, no, don't do it. Don't

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Speaker 1: do it, guys, please don't. I I yeah, just out

406
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Speaker 1: there milk and HeLa monsters. Anyways, another reason I wanted

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Speaker 1: to bring up the healo monsters is that they there

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Speaker 1: is some new research, not in terms of what the

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00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 1: healo monsters can do for us, which is actually currently ongoing.

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Speaker 1: There's all sorts of things that they're looking into heal

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Speaker 1: a monster venom for, including things like Alzheimer's. So just

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Speaker 1: it's just, you know, venom has so many interesting properties.

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Speaker 1: And we're gonna talk about this some more at the

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Speaker 1: end of the show, but there's so many different things

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Speaker 1: that that these peptides that can be found in the

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Speaker 1: vidim it could offer potential treatments for. And it's all

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Speaker 1: this research that's happening. But there's also now some research

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Speaker 1: going on in order to help the heala monsters themselves,

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Speaker 1: because they are living creatures and they too are vulnerable

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Speaker 1: to disease. Particularly there is this fungal parasite called cryptosporidium.

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00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 1: It's not the kind of crypto you want to invest in.

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00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: It's uh, you know, uh it is it is a

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00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: kind of of fungus that can infect the HeLa monster

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Speaker 1: digestive system, which is really bad for them because, like

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Speaker 1: we talked about, their whole adaptation is like having this

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Speaker 1: incredible digestion digestive system that works really slowly metabolizes, but

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Speaker 1: it allows them to eat not that much, and so

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Speaker 1: a helo monster might eat a huge meal. Digestion is

429
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: going really slowly. But then if this fungal parasite takes

430
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 1: hold of their digestion, it messes up this very delicate

431
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: balance that the HeLa monster has. And so this, you know,

432
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: threatens not only individuals, but if we see this continue, right, like,

433
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: if infections become more common, could threaten entire populations. And

434
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: fungi are as much as I am interested in fung

435
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: guy in terms of evolutionary biology because they're really fascinating,

436
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 1: they can be really devastating. It, particularly for reptiles and

437
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: amphibians and specifically frogs seem to suffer the mouse from

438
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: certain types of fungal infections. Like, there are species that

439
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: get wiped out by fungal infections because they have so

440
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: little defense against it. They're very vulnerable to it and

441
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: it can spread so quickly. So sort of the last

442
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: of a style apocalypses are happening all the time, just

443
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: to frog species you've never heard of.

444
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cryptospridium is a microscopic parasite that's really important for

445
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: humans as well. I should mention it can cause severe diarrhea.

446
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 2: Watery diarrhea can cause logi symptoms. It's transmitted through the

447
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: fecal oral route, which is another fantastic reason again to

448
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: wash your hands, and it is found in the US

449
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 2: and throughout the rest of the world too, but it

450
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 2: is a real problem here, particularly if someone has some

451
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 2: immunal compromise. So it's one of these causes of severe

452
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: diarrhea in patients with immuo compromise that we check for.

453
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 2: So it's interesting that we're seeing it cause problems in

454
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 2: these animals as well, because maybe it will help us

455
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 2: if we research them figure out how to treat it

456
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 2: for us. Yeah.

457
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely. This is a major theme of the show, which

458
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: is that we are not separate from other animals, both

459
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: in terms of the ways in which we directly impact

460
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: each other, the way like our sort of when we

461
00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: live somewhere, our human habitations will directly influence animal behaviors

462
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 1: and that will come back to us. But also on

463
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: you know, the microscopic level, right, like diseases and it's

464
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: not just like zoonoses that like jump from animals to

465
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: people or back and forth, but just diseases that affect

466
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: both humans and animals that when we understand them better

467
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: in animals or even understand them better in people. We

468
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: can learn how to treat treat the issue at this

469
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 1: more fundamental level, which like helps everything.

470
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 2: Right.

471
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: Ecosystems generally work because there are a lot of uh

472
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of different members of that ecosystem. Right,

473
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: So humans are part of an ecosystem, even though we

474
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: like to pretend that we're not. Right, we kind of

475
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: pave over all the ecosystms, like we don't need that.

476
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: All we need is like asphalt and a nice, nice Honda,

477
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: and we're good. But like it's we really are part

478
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: of an ecosystem, and like it is really interesting when

479
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 1: we see that at this sort of more like scientific

480
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: level where this this it's it's kind of like an

481
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: information ecosystem, right, where information that animals have in their

482
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: in their genome from millions of years of evolution, we

483
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 1: can look at as humans and then find this like

484
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: huge library of information of peptides, of diseases and how

485
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: they respond in animals, then use that for our own medicine,

486
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: in our own health, and also for the health of

487
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: the environment, which again directly feeds back into our own

488
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: quality of life. It's it's it's not separate at all.

489
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I agree. I mean, in just to clarify Cryptospurtium,

490
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 2: I don't believe as a fungus. I believe it's a

491
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 2: protozoan parasite, but the way it's infecting, the way it's

492
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 2: acting in these in the people, and the and the

493
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: way it acts it's very similar in terms of the

494
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 2: immio compromise to fungus as well. So yeah, it is

495
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,959
Speaker 2: knowing about them is I think it's very cool that

496
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: there's so many connections between studying animals and us. There's

497
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: limitations obviously between like what happens in animal and how

498
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: that translates to what happens to us and how our

499
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 2: bodies adjust, but overall, more similarities than we would expect

500
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 2: and more than differences. And it's a great place to

501
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 2: start studies because you don't want to have to study

502
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 2: cryptosporidium in humans if you can help it. I mean,

503
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: you're going to have to at some point for treatments.

504
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: But the more we can learn about these things from

505
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 2: other research that's out there in the animal world, the

506
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 2: better it will be for scientists focusing on humans.

507
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, and yes, thank you so much. For the clarification,

508
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: you're actually, you're absolutely right. I was confusing it. There's

509
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: something called the chitrid fungus and that's the one that

510
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: affects a lot of amphibians and reptiles, so that one's

511
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: a fungus. But you're right, cryptospor is a microbe. Yes, exactly.

512
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 2: I think it's single celled, right, right.

513
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: They're they're kind of they's similar kind of in how

514
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: they they operate. But you're right, distinct good and good distinction.

515
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, and so the bye. There's this recent article

516
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: in The New York Times by Emily Anthees, and it's

517
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: about this, like, uh, these researchers struggles to find sort

518
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,239
Speaker 1: of treatments for helo monsters who are infected with Cryptosporidium. Uh.

519
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: There is a particular patient being study named Pebbles. She's

520
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: a helo monster being treated at the Creature Conservancy in

521
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: ann Arbor Mission. She's called Pebbles because she has little

522
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: the characteristic bumps on her skin that and they're very

523
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: like they're because they're bony deposits. They're very rough. They feel,

524
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: you know, kind of bony and rough, and it's it's

525
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: I've never pet a helo monster, and I really want

526
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: to because I feel like that would be very tactile,

527
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: the satisfying to pet.

528
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: You know, a killer name, killer name for any sort

529
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: of lizard. I absolutely love it.

530
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she apparently tolerates being cradled by people pretty well,

531
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: just like holding her and she's like, well, all right,

532
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: this is my life now, because they're very They're really

533
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: not very they're very chill lizards, right like, unless you're

534
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: a small prey item or they think that you're a

535
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: threat to them, they're they're very chill. And so this

536
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: University of Michigan pharmaceutical chemist Tim Sernak, I hope I'm

537
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: pronouncing that right, is looking into potential treatments for pebbles specifically,

538
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: but also the hope is that by trying to treat pebbles,

539
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: he'll be able to find treatments for other heel monsters,

540
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: other populations, and then maybe also for humans. Because he

541
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: actually started out as a medical researcher for human diseases,

542
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: right like, looking into pharmaceuticals for people, and then his

543
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: focus shifted towards animals because he's he was thinking like, look,

544
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: we get so much from these these animals from our

545
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: environment in terms of medical research. I'm worried now about

546
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: losing that and losing these precious resources not just because

547
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: of what they provide us, but just because they're also

548
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: because they're wonderful. And so he's kind of shifted his

549
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: focus to trying to come up with ways to treat

550
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: these diseases in animals, not on a sort of like

551
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: specific like veterinarian level, but on a population level, right, Like, so,

552
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: if you have a population of helo monsters being threatened

553
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: right by cryptosporidium, how do you treat that? How do

554
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: you prevent say extinction or near extinctions from these diseases

555
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: in these animals that are so important for the environment

556
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: and for medicine.

557
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh that's really neat. That's really cool.

558
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: I really love that because it's like, you know, the

559
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: the idea that we can exploit animals right for their

560
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: this like information that they have like their in their

561
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: living tissue, but then we can also use that information

562
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: then to like turn around and be like, all right,

563
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: helo monsters, you've greatly improved our lives and our understanding

564
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: of medicine. Let's make sure that you don't die out.

565
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: That would It's just it's something that to me seems

566
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: really obvious, like this is an important thing. But it's

567
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: also like, again, what we were kind of talking about

568
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the show. You could imagine someone

569
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: who's trying to cut funding to research going like why

570
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: do we need to treat lizards? Like why do we

571
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: care about that? Who cares?

572
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: Right? And also I would even go in further to

573
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 2: be like someone might say, Okay, we learned everything we

574
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 2: need to know about the Helo monster, but that's clearly

575
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: not true either, Like I mean, there's going to be

576
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: more discoveries that I mean, if we're looking at this

577
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 2: from a completely selfish, non altruistic sort of perspective, it's

578
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: still a good idea. Yes, to keep them alive, keep

579
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: them around, study them. I mean, that's not the reason

580
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 2: we should do it. We should do it just because,

581
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: like we're not monsters destroying the planet. But you know,

582
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 2: if you need to be a little bit more granular

583
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,399
Speaker 2: about it, they can there. Look what we've already learned

584
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 2: in what little time we've been studying them. Give us

585
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 2: more time. Maybe there's something else that will cure other

586
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 2: diseases in this animal that we need to keep an

587
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 2: eye on. Yeah.

588
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I mean I feel like the listeners to the

589
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: show are very sort of self selecting. So they're all

590
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: animal lovers, they all want good things for animals just

591
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: because they think animals are cool. I'm assuming, and so

592
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,439
Speaker 1: I feel like I don't need to necessarily convince y'all

593
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: out there to care about animals. But I feel like

594
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: when you're talking to people, right, friends, family, you're senators,

595
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: I don't know who are, are kind of not understanding

596
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: why animals are so important and saying something like, well,

597
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: because they're really cool and it's amazing to have a

598
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: diversity of animals around, and that doesn't reach them. Then

599
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 1: saying like, look, this animal could potentially lead to a

600
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: cure for Alzheimer's and we just don't know it yet.

601
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: It's is It is something where sometimes you do, especially

602
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: for something like like policymakers or people who just are

603
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: not that curious about animals and about science in general,

604
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: that you have to like tell them, look like you

605
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: will directly benefit from this animal. It's not just about

606
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: the curiosity of it, about the sort of fascinating discoveries.

607
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 1: Even though a lot of people, I think, especially listeners

608
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: of the show, would agree that is valuable in of

609
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: in itself. It doesn't have to lead to something. But yeah,

610
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: like in so many cases, like I always think about

611
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 1: like things that we lose in terms of like there's

612
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: so many species we lose that we just don't know

613
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: what they could have helped us with. In terms of discoveries,

614
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: I think like the most famous one is the gastric

615
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: brooding frog. I don't know if that's something that is

616
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: well known among gaster enterology.

617
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 2: You think I would know about it, Well, I'll tell

618
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 2: you now.

619
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: It's it is this little frog that did unfortunately go extinct,

620
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: but it had this really unique brooding method. It would

621
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: ingest its own babies, and the little babies would like

622
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: go from eggs to tadpoles to like a little frog

623
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 1: that's all inside of its gut, inside of its stomach,

624
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 1: and it did the it would be able to do

625
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: this without you know, digesting its own babies. So and

626
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: then once the baby was big enough, it would come

627
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: out of the gastric brooding frog's mouth. So basically it

628
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: would like give birth from its stomach out of its mouth.

629
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: It's essentially like when you're a kid and you first

630
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: learn about pregnancy and babies, how you think babies are made,

631
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: Like they grow them in their stomachs and their tummies

632
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: and then like throw them up or something like this

633
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: frog would literally do that, and it's very it's really

634
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: sad that they when extinct, mostly due to habitat loss.

635
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 2: But uh, I mean, just off the top of my head,

636
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 2: I could think of three important like research things you

637
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: could do to help us learn about gastric lining, about

638
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 2: gastric cultures, about even like tumor growth in the stomach.

639
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 2: There's so much there and that's that's fascinating. Ye I'm

640
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 2: so bummed that I'm just learning about this thing now

641
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 2: that it's already gone.

642
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there is some hope that it could

643
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: be potentially brought back, like by there's some samples of it,

644
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: like so I think they have some like samples of

645
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: the gas or brooding frog. There's this idea of like

646
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: de extincting them by introducing that DNA to close relatives

647
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: of it and see if they can bring it back.

648
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 2: So there's some.

649
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: Potential hope in the future. But like you said, like

650
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: the loss of understanding of like how they manage to

651
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: have their gut not like not burned through these very

652
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: tender little froglets. Would mean a lot in terms of

653
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: how to prevent your stomachs from say like burning through

654
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: the lining of your stomach because your stomachs are full

655
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: of acid. It's important for digestion. But then when that acid,

656
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: you know, burns your own gut lining, like, then you

657
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: get ulcers. And so yeah, there's so much potential research

658
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: that could have happened that was lost.

659
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 2: That's right, as you learned when you came onto the

660
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: House of Pod and we discussed with an expert in

661
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 2: peptic ulcer disease. There's so many factors that go into

662
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 2: the creation of these ulcers. It's not really so much

663
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 2: that there's more acid, but it's the lining of the

664
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 2: stomach and how it's protected. And that is exactly the

665
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: kind of thing that we still have a lot to

666
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 2: learn about. Yeah, and like having something else out there

667
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 2: to look at would have been awesome, And it is

668
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 2: funny that we have to do this, but we do. Yeah,

669
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 2: Like from my perspective, I'm constantly trying to explain to

670
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: people why it's important for us as the United States

671
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 2: to care about infectious disease elsewhere.

672
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really important, but they're in another country, How

673
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: could that ever possibly affect us? Like, first of all gross,

674
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,919
Speaker 1: Second of all planes, you guys, airplanes?

675
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:26,439
Speaker 2: Yeah?

676
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: And third gross again third just gross, like yeah, like, oh,

677
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 1: I don't like, I don't care about other people unless

678
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 1: I'm personally affected or they're in my own country. Very gross.

679
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: But also yes, airplanes, god, airplanes yeah, airplanes also yeah,

680
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 1: I just I also feel personally And I encourage you

681
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: to check out Kevey's show if you If you like

682
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: this show, you will definitely like his podcast. I was

683
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: on one about gird. I learned so much and it

684
00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: was for me a very cool personal experience because because

685
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: I I have gourd and I learned so much, And

686
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: I also feel personally victimized by the gastric brooding frog

687
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: going extinct because I feel like my life would be

688
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: tangibly better with this animal around. And probably everyone who

689
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: has gourd or any gas reflux.

690
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 2: Ah mean, what a cool what a cool animal?

691
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: Yeah?

692
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, And thank you for those kind of works.

693
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: Then, oh, you're very welcome. They're well deserved. We're gonna

694
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we're gonna talk a

695
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: little bit about giraffes and how learning more about them

696
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: could prevent anything from deep vein thrombosis to stroke. Uh,

697
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 1: so we do. We have talked about a lot of

698
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: lesser known animals, and I do like to highlight the

699
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: less charismatic animals. That's what they're called, even though I

700
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 1: think they're of course brimming with charisma. But like, it's

701
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: actually really interesting that there are so many animals that

702
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: are very famous, that are sort of these well known

703
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: animals that we think we know everything about, but they

704
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: also offer us a lot of information on medicine just

705
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: by looking at their evolutionary adaptation. So giraffes are something

706
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 1: of a evolutionary marvel because they're so weird. We're used

707
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: to seeing them because we learn about them since we're

708
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: you know, like since we're kids. We kind of see like, hey,

709
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: that's a giraffe, and that's what it looks like. But

710
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 1: if you were an alien and you looked at a giraffe,

711
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: you would be stunned because it doesn't make any sense

712
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 1: how this animal is alive and doesn't just pass out

713
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: every time it takes a step, because it's got this

714
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: enormous neck, of course, these really long legs and for

715
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: blood to pump through its body. For it to be

716
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: able to move without like passing out every time it

717
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: tries to take a drink is kind of a genius thing.

718
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 1: That's all happening inside of its circulatory system.

719
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 2: Absolutely utely. I think about this not too infrequently because

720
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: my kids love, you know, looking at animal specials and

721
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 2: will watch like these the animals and the Serengetti or

722
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 2: something like that, and you see them walking around, and

723
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 2: I am fascinated by dirafts. I think they're awesome. But

724
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 2: you're you're totally right. If you were to take a

725
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 2: human with a neck that long, yeah, I mean so

726
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 2: many reasons this doesn't make sense. But the way our valves,

727
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 2: in our blood vessels work, it would not be able

728
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 2: to provide enough blood to the head. And when you

729
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 2: actually bent all the way over all that blood going

730
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: to the head would probably make you pass out. Yeah,

731
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 2: it would be you wouldn't be able to tolerate it.

732
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 2: The And I don't know the details, but I'm assuming

733
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 2: that their vasculature, the blood vessels are First of all,

734
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: their heart must be pumping like incredibly powerfully, and then

735
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 2: there must be something very special about their blood vessels

736
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 2: that allow the blood not only to fall back down

737
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 2: those gravity dependent blood vessels, but somehow work their way

738
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 2: up constantly.

739
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're exactly right about that. So giraffes are

740
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: like they are, so they're not only so weird just

741
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: like when you look at them, but like their entire

742
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: bodies are created to solve problems that they've made for

743
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: themselves by being so tall. It's really funny because it's like, well, why, guys,

744
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: why do you have to be so tall? Why did

745
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: you go through all this because you've created so many

746
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: problems for yourself. But of course the answer is they

747
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: inhabit this niche by being able to reach vegetation and

748
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 1: then also the amazing sort of surveillance skills they have

749
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: by being so tall. So whenever there's an evolutionary niche

750
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: and an animal can exploit it and they can come

751
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: up with solutions to solve the mechanical problems of their

752
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: weird bodies, it'll happen, which is pretty amazing. And when

753
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,879
Speaker 1: I say they solve it, of course this is done

754
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: through many iterations of natural selection. So, Kevin, you're absolutely

755
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: right about the heart. They have a twenty five pound heart,

756
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: so that's eleven kilograms. Wow, about how much does it

757
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: I forgot, like about how much does a human heart weigh.

758
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 1: It's like about a pound, right, It's not very heavy,

759
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 1: I would say.

760
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 2: I mean depending on the age and like how large

761
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 2: and if it's an American heart with obesity and just

762
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 2: a heart failure, I probably around two pounds right right

763
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 2: at most?

764
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, at most, So it's like twenty five times around

765
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: twenty five times as big as like a human heart. Uh.

766
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: And it a giraffe has twice the amount of blood

767
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 1: pressure as a healthy human. So it is just it

768
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: it's like I'm trying to think of how far this

769
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: heart could squirt blood, but it would be like a

770
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: super soaker shooting blood. It's it's incredible. So yes, it

771
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: has incredible like a an incredibly high blood pressure. And

772
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: if a human had that high blood pressure, you'd be

773
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: getting strokes, you'd be getting deep vein, thrombosis, edema, all

774
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: these problems, heart attacks, things that come from high blood pressure,

775
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: and the giraffes do not in general, And so there's

776
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: a big question, Okay, what's going on? How is the

777
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: giraffe not just getting all of these terrible effects from

778
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: such a high blood pressure? And then also they're freakishly

779
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: designed bodies.

780
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: Right, No, that's fascinating to me. And to be clear

781
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: about the heart for the humans, like you don't want

782
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 2: it to be that big, you want the heart to

783
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,839
Speaker 2: be like under a pound, I would say, is, yeah,

784
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 2: it's been a long time since I've held a human

785
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 2: heart in my hands. But you probably don't want to.

786
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: Worry cause people have it by the way, I would

787
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: just say, like, don't be apologetic about it, like, oh,

788
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: it's been a while since I've held a human heart

789
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: in my hands. It's like for most of us, right,

790
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:57,399
Speaker 1: it's been never.

791
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,720
Speaker 2: And I should clarify from like medical skies studying the body,

792
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: not like from extracurricular activities.

793
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:08,479
Speaker 1: Me too, for sure, yes, wink wink, sh sure.

794
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 2: And if the heart were to be that powerful in

795
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 2: a huge so that's fascinating because if our problem is

796
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 2: almost the opposite, where it's like we don't want our

797
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: hearts that that big. You don't want to have to

798
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 2: be pumping that hard, you don't want your blood pressure

799
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 2: to be that high, it is fascinating to see. You

800
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 2: know what, when we want to really measure the pressure,

801
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: one of the best ways to do that is you

802
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: put uh an ivy into the arterial flow where the

803
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 2: blood's pumping from the heart. It's it's not fun for

804
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 2: the patient, but it's tricky for us. But sometimes you

805
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 2: just have to do it and really tense situations in

806
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 2: ICU cases when you really need to know the blood pressure.

807
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 2: And I would be fascinated to see if they've done

808
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,919
Speaker 2: that in giraffes to see how. I don't know how,

809
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 2: Like if there's no las that you can do this,

810
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 2: you have to all be in the field, I guess, right,

811
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 2: because what laboratories can you do this in a giraffe.

812
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 2: There's not big enough. But like I would be really

813
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 2: interested to see what that blood pressure is when they

814
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 2: like look at the arterial blood flow of a giraffe.

815
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you saw that talks about like

816
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 2: what their blood pressure would be, I mean recorded as

817
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I.

818
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: Think their blood pressure is so it's like twice that

819
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 1: of the typical blood pressure of a human. Let me

820
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: see I think there was a number, and I don't know.

821
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: I mean I would assume a lot of this information

822
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 1: is is based on UH based on studies that have

823
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: been done in zoo giraffes. So like you have girafts

824
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: in a zoo. While right, the kind of like the

825
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: facilities that you do to study a giraffe, Like I

826
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: don't know if there's like say, I know that zoo

827
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 1: MRIs are enormous, like they have giant Wow. I don't

828
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: know if a giraffe could fit in one, but I.

829
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,919
Speaker 2: Would love to see the medical facilities in a zoo.

830
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:09,720
Speaker 2: That would be amazing.

831
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 1: They're like they have very like special equipment, like giant scales,

832
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: things that are for these enormous animals to be able

833
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: to study them. So they may have, uh, they may

834
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: have something I think that, yeah, for they may be

835
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: able to have some kind of method of measuring giraffes

836
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: blood pressure. I don't know if it's the the uh

837
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: what you had mentioned for people, but they had uh

838
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: I seen they sit. Yeah, this this article says it

839
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: like blood pressure at the heart of about two twenty

840
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: over one eighty uh and then yeah, blood pressure at

841
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:52,720
Speaker 1: the brain of about one ten over seventy, so twice

842
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,720
Speaker 1: of that of a human, right exactly, So about twice

843
00:48:55,840 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: is what is healthy for a person. And yet they're fine.

844
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 1: They don't they don't. They also don't have like EDMA

845
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: in their legs, like these long legs where all this

846
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 1: blood should be pooling and being forced down into because

847
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: of gravity, because of that high blood pressure. So the

848
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: first problem a giraffe faces is drinking water. It has

849
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: to bend its like it can eat all of it,

850
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: eat all it wants without ever lowering its head. Because

851
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: it's feeding from acacia trees, it's getting leaves and foliage.

852
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily have to bend its head to eat,

853
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: but it has to bend its head to drink. And

854
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: so when it lowers its head to drink, if you've

855
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,760
Speaker 1: ever seen it, like it has to get in position.

856
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: It kind of splays its leg out and it's like,

857
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: all right, everyone, I'm about to drink some water, you know,

858
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: hold my hold my giraffe beer. And so what happens

859
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,399
Speaker 1: is so like you said, like if it lowers its head,

860
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: it should just if it was a human right shaped

861
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 1: like a giraffe, all of our blood would just rush

862
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: really quickly into our head, which would be bad. It

863
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 1: could like potentially cause like a brain hemorrhage right from

864
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: that like sudden increase in pressure. But this doesn't happen.

865
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 1: So they have this complex cluster of arteries and veins. Now,

866
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: I don't know how this word is pronounced like among

867
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: medical professionals in America, but because I think it's like

868
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 1: a Italian word, I'm going to pronounce it as an

869
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: Italian word. It's called a rete mirabile, which is like

870
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 1: it's like this sort of complex bundle of blood vessels

871
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: of arteries that form that's kind of like net and

872
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: it's in a lot of animals. It's used for things

873
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: like heat exchange to keep parts of their body warm.

874
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: In birds, it can be used to keep their legs

875
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:49,760
Speaker 1: warm in the winter. So there's all sorts of interesting

876
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: ways that like these complex networks of like heat exchange

877
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: and of counter like flow in one direction flow in

878
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: another direction that this can be used for. In it's

879
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: used as kind of like a traffic jam for the blood,

880
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 1: like a way to kind of like counteract all the

881
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 1: blood flowing down, so it slows the blood so it

882
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: goes to their head more slowly, and then it also

883
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 1: they also have a valve in its jugular vein to

884
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: prevent the blood from all rushing down from its jugular

885
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,800
Speaker 1: into its head, and so that slows and interrupts the

886
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: blood going down to its head. Now then when it

887
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: lifts its head up, it has another problem, which is

888
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: that all that blood rushing back down should make it faint,

889
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: and then you just have every time it would take

890
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,240
Speaker 1: a drink, it would just pass out. This doesn't happen

891
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: because its blood vessels constrict as it's lifting its head

892
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: up and force the blood upwards. So so like they

893
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,320
Speaker 1: go down, these blood vessels are able to sort of

894
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: slow down the blood have this like counter pressure and

895
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 1: a valve that keeps it from all rushing into its head.

896
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: Then it lifts its head up and then the blood

897
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: the blood vessels like squeeze that blood back up into

898
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: the head so it doesn't pass out, and they get

899
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 1: their little drink of water and go on their merry way.

900
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 2: Wow, it's so cool. I mean rete mirabelee. It's like,

901
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 2: first of all, it's a very elegant sounding word, right,

902
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 2: and that I mean that sounds like the correct pronunciation

903
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 2: to be. I know, I'm not familiar with this.

904
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: I can crinch it up if anyone wants. I don't know.

905
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 2: Or read mirrorbile in America. So it is, Uh, it's

906
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: a very elegant word for a very elegant system. Yeah,

907
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 2: it's just really nice that it works out so like,

908
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 2: I mean, it's so well designed. I mean it's weirdly designed,

909
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 2: and you're almost like why did it have to be

910
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 2: this way? I mean, aren't there other ways to survive?

911
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,439
Speaker 2: But that's not quite how you know, evolution works.

912
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: And it's just really marvelous. And I think, like what

913
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 1: it means is marvelous net. So like in in Italian

914
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: it means marvelous net. Yeah, like a marvelous net of

915
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: blood vessels and arteries that like create this sort of

916
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: complex Like it's like it's it's sort of like if

917
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: you're an urban planner and you're trying to either slow

918
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: or speed up traffic, right, you create these these roads

919
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 1: and stuff, and so it's like that, but on in

920
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: the circulatory system to slow down or speed up blood

921
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: flow when you need it.

922
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 2: So, is this only found in mammals or is this

923
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 2: also found in.

924
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: Also found in birds? So yeah, there are other other

925
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: animals not just mammals. So birds have it keeping their

926
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,360
Speaker 1: legs warm. I would assume that it could also be

927
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: found in reptiles. I don't I do not know about fish,

928
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: sorry fish. But yeah, so it has this amazing ability

929
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 1: to prevent itself from passing out or having blood just

930
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 1: like explode its head. So all of these things are

931
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,280
Speaker 1: really and you'd think that we would know everything about

932
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 1: how a giraffe like has these adaptations, but you know,

933
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,760
Speaker 1: at this point, like being able to continue to study

934
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: giraffes to understand how they work could have uh there

935
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 1: could be discoveries made in terms of like things like

936
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: how to uh like how to cope with like high

937
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 1: blood pressure in human beings, like what are the kinds

938
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: of things that high blood pressure could affect? Or like, say,

939
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: I mean one big thing is I know that with

940
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: pots pots it's this relatively poorly understood issue where some

941
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 1: people like have this like when they stand up, they

942
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 1: have this sudden shift in their blood pressure that essentially

943
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: can cause fainting or make them feel faint. And it's

944
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: just like it's a difficulty for their circulatory system to

945
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 1: change to sort of change their posterior position, right like

946
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: the like the witch, like whether they're lying down or

947
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,800
Speaker 1: standing up. And understanding giraffes better might help also understand

948
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 1: these issues in people.

949
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I mean, you know, again trying to find

950
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 2: ways to appeal to humans that may not care that

951
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 2: much outside of it, But like, for example, varicose veins

952
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 2: in humans, maybe there's something about this anatomy, studying diraft

953
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 2: anatomy that might help us in regards to finding new

954
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 2: treatments or surgical things we can do for varicos veins

955
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 2: that people may not like or may find unsightly on

956
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 2: their bodies. So, I mean, there's so much here in

957
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 2: terms of studying the vascular system that would be neat

958
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,320
Speaker 2: to know, and there is a very real possibility of

959
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 2: it having some benefit to us. Yeah.

960
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: In fact, already, by understanding giraffes, we have, you know,

961
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 1: an understanding of how to have treatments for people, so

962
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: like giraffes in order like the other issue that I mentioned,

963
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 1: the big one, which would be like why is all

964
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: the blood not pulling in their legs? That one's really

965
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 1: interesting because that's not just down to sort of their

966
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: vascular system. They have essentially compression stockings on their legs.

967
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:10,840
Speaker 1: So they have this thick, tight skin on their legs

968
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: that acts exactly as compression stockings act in human beings.

969
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: So it you know, pushes, like physically pushes squeezes on

970
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 1: their legs, which forces the blood from pulling into their extremities,

971
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 1: and it's thought that that literally just their skin, the

972
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: tightness of their skin helps prevent things like edema, deep

973
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: vein thrombosis, things that should be a problem for these

974
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 1: giraffes but simply aren't.

975
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's that is stuff that we use every

976
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 2: day in the hospital and every day in outpatient medicine,

977
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:48,280
Speaker 2: things to help people, you know, prevent these these blood

978
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 2: cloths performing. It's a serious problem, becoming more and more

979
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 2: of an issue we can see as our patients get

980
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 2: older and more sedentary.

981
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: Yeah so yeah, yeah, it would mean I feel like

982
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: we should have a branding thing where with compression stockings,

983
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 1: like make them more fun and more fashionable, so like

984
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: putting maybe a giraffe print on them of like you know,

985
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 1: the sort of draft prints, like their their their skin

986
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 1: print as if you're wearing you know, giraffe stockings, like

987
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: make make them fashion forward so that you're both benefiting

988
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 1: from the medical device. But it's also like it's also

989
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 1: che homage to exactly a chic homage to the giraffe. Uh.

990
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 2: The under it's underappreciated in the fashion world. Everyone's always

991
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 2: thinking about like the Cheetoh, the leopard, right, the leopard print.

992
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 2: But you know, let's give the giraffe.

993
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 1: It's it's a beautiful pattern.

994
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, do they I'm trying to think now, I feel

995
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 2: like they're just yellow.

996
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: They have they have they have a sort of blocky

997
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: pattern of like sort of a more sort of tan

998
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: white and then a deeper brown and then they have

999
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: this sort of like it's this sort of patchwork blocky

1000
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 1: pattern all over their skin.

1001
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 2: Very beautiful, googling as we speak. Oh, they are beautiful. Yes, yeah,

1002
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 2: I was totally wrong about them being yellow. That's very embarrassing.

1003
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,439
Speaker 2: So sorry. They do have that blocky pattern. I don't

1004
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:20,439
Speaker 2: know why I thought they were yellow.

1005
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 1: Probably your kids are reading kids books and there's like

1006
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: a giraffe. The artists might be lazy and just like,

1007
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 1: oh they're yellow or something.

1008
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 2: That's that's exactly what it is. And I only see

1009
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 2: them from like a distance. Okay, Yeah, they're gorgeous. It

1010
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 2: is sort of leopardy but nice. It's it's got a

1011
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 2: little bit thicker blocks.

1012
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, this nice reticulated pattern.

1013
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 2: Beautiful.

1014
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: So you know, if you if you use compression stockings,

1015
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: you know, just think of it as you are you're

1016
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 1: following in the giant, strange footsteps of giraffes.

1017
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, the giants. How big are their feet?

1018
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: Their feet are quite big, so they're actually they're ungulates,

1019
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: which means that they have their toes are sort of

1020
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: these these hooves.

1021
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 2: But how big are they They're I mean, compared to

1022
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 2: their bodies. They can't be that big, which is why no, I.

1023
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: Actually I don't know off the top of my head, but.

1024
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 2: Because every picture I see of them they're covered by

1025
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 2: like the grass. Okay, I see one. Uh. Yeah, they

1026
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 2: look like the same basic proportion that a horses would

1027
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 2: be there.

1028
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 1: I think they are a little bit, yeah, the same proportion.

1029
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 1: They are definitely bigger. The feet are bigger than a horse,

1030
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: and they splay out a little more like for the

1031
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: weight distribution, unlike a horse. Also, a horse is actually

1032
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 1: an odd toed ungulate. Believe giraffes are an even toad ungulates.

1033
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 1: That means that they have these two two toes in

1034
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: the front of their foot.

1035
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 2: So smart, it's really impressive. Can they run fast?

1036
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 1: They can run surprisingly fast. Yeah, they they they can

1037
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: gallop pretty quickly. I let me check on that giraffe.

1038
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:13,919
Speaker 1: Let's see, they can run. They can run thirty five

1039
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 1: miles per hour, so that is that is impressive. Yeah,

1040
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 1: they can. They can really go get going. And when

1041
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 1: you see them run, they have to like in order

1042
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 1: for the body the weight distribution, they actually have to

1043
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 1: kind of like undulate their heads, so as they're galloping, right,

1044
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 1: they have this like undulation so that they work with

1045
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 1: this like balance of their head. Yeah, exactly. So it's

1046
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: I encourage you to look up a giraffe running because

1047
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 1: it's both a little bit goofy but also really interesting.

1048
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: But yeah, they can. They can really, they can really

1049
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 1: hoof it pretty quickly. So beautiful, beautiful animals. And even

1050
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: like I think people have the sense that we just

1051
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: know everything about sort of megafauna, about like large, large,

1052
01:00:55,800 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: famous animals, and we really don't, And by researching we

1053
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 1: can make these incredible discoveries. Like I think NASA is

1054
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 1: particularly interested in giraffes because I read this one thing

1055
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 1: on this NASA blog basically saying that, yeah, they've basically

1056
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 1: invented like an anti gravity space suit. So if we

1057
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 1: understand how how giraffes work and how they manage all

1058
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: these things, we can probably help like create things for astronauts,

1059
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 1: so like even in like our future, right, like, if

1060
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: we're trying to figure out how to solve problems of

1061
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 1: astronauts in space, you know, looking at something like a

1062
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: giraffe can help. So NASA Also, I think being targeted

1063
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 1: by by funding cuts might not.

1064
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 2: Be good, right because who else deserves to go to

1065
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 2: space but certain billionaire oligarchs.

1066
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: I actually, you know what, I agree. I think we

1067
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 1: should send them all into space.

1068
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 2: You know, that's actually not a bad idea.

1069
01:01:56,560 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 1: Enjoy space, guys, We'll take care of everything else down here. Yeah,

1070
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 1: all of you guys go off to Mars, have have

1071
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: fun on your little your little Mars kingdom, and then.

1072
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 2: We'll just we'll just do we'll handle here, come back home.

1073
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right. So I just wanted to bring up

1074
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 1: a In the research for this podcast, I found this

1075
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 1: lab that I thought was really cool and I wanted

1076
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 1: to kind of talk about a little bit. It's called

1077
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 1: the Manda Halford Venom Lab at Hunter College. And once

1078
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 1: you say Venom Lab, I'm sold. I'm one hundred percent in.

1079
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: So there's this whole and this is just one of

1080
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: many labs that work on this kind of stuff. I

1081
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 1: just wanted to highlight one. It's a whole laboratory dedicated

1082
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 1: to studying deadly painful venoms, not just like not to

1083
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: create like super villain serums, which it sounds like that's

1084
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 1: what this would be, right, like bioweapons. No, all in

1085
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 1: terms of like the what they can bring us in

1086
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 1: medicine pain management, And it is really cool. I'm also

1087
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 1: bringing it up because this is a lab that's funded

1088
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 1: by the NIH, by the National Science and also the

1089
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 1: National Science Foundation, both agencies that are getting massive cuts

1090
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 1: right now. So the NIH I think like was forced

1091
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 1: to lay off or fire thousands of employees because of

1092
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 1: the Trump administration. The NSF was forced to lay off

1093
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 1: like hundreds of employees. They've also been forced to freeze

1094
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 1: funding to all sorts of things, right due to executive

1095
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 1: orders just like saying like nope, we're just going to

1096
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: stop shut off any funding. And then I suppose like

1097
01:03:55,560 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: probably do some kind of like indiscriminate keyword search for like, hey,

1098
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 1: does your your research have the word female in it?

1099
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 2: Too? Bad?

1100
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 1: Like now you don't get funding. Ah, So this is

1101
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 1: exactly the kind of lab that would be threatened by

1102
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 1: the cuts that are being made. And yeah, so it's

1103
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:22,439
Speaker 1: it is it researches conotoxin and cone snails, and cone

1104
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 1: snails are really really cool. They are these beautiful snails

1105
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: that you should never pick up because if you do,

1106
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 1: they could inject you with this venomous barb with one

1107
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 1: of the most painful and deadly venoms you could.

1108
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 2: Receive from the from the shell or from the bottom

1109
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 2: sticky part it's from.

1110
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 1: So these snails are they're marine snails, and they're called

1111
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 1: cone snails because they're essentially shaped like a unicorn horn.

1112
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: They're this sort of spiraling cone. They're beautiful and like

1113
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 1: at on the base of the shell is where the

1114
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 1: actual mollusk lives, so the living organism inside the shell,

1115
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: and it will shoot out from that bottom of the

1116
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 1: shell a barb like kind of like a harpoon, and

1117
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: that is to it'll shoot that harpoon at prey to

1118
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 1: paralyze them. But if you pick one up, it might

1119
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: shoot it at you as well, which is bad news.

1120
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 1: You need to seek immediate medical treatment because it can

1121
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 1: cause in addition to severe pain, can cause cardiac arrest

1122
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 1: because of these extremely powerful conotoxins. So when you hear

1123
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 1: about a lab researching these conotoxins. You might think, why,

1124
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 1: like we again, like this, this is silly, this is stupid.

1125
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 1: We're looking at something that just like all it does

1126
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:48,919
Speaker 1: is hurt people or kill people. This is a dumb

1127
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:52,080
Speaker 1: thing to research. Just avoid picking up cone snails and

1128
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: we're good. We don't need to know anything else about it.

1129
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: But like we talked about with the HeLa monster, researching

1130
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 1: this cone snail venom actually gives us a lot of

1131
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 1: opportunities for new medicines and medical treatments. And ironically one

1132
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 1: of the main ones is pain management, which is kind

1133
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 1: of interesting given the fact that if you are, you know,

1134
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: harpooned by one of these conesnails out in nature, it's

1135
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 1: definitely not going to manage your pain. Or if by

1136
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 1: pain management you mean managing to put you in a

1137
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:28,480
Speaker 1: lot of pain, is what will happen.

1138
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 2: You know what I find interesting about this, and I

1139
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 2: think you're exactly right to point out, like some people

1140
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 2: might say, what's the point why study this dangerous thing?

1141
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 2: And it's similar to why it's important for researchers to

1142
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 2: when they're say studying a pathogen or a virus, to

1143
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 2: study gain of function issues, to say, like oky, what happens.

1144
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:54,920
Speaker 2: If this virus is not that scary, now gains the

1145
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 2: ability to do this thing, how do we then treat it?

1146
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 2: It informs our treatments, in form on what we can

1147
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 2: do to help prevent us to be a step ahead.

1148
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 2: So it hits all part of this pandemic preparedness. And

1149
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 2: it's a similar mentality. It's like sometimes we have to

1150
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 2: look at the things that are not just ideal or

1151
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,880
Speaker 2: fun that some of these dangerous or scarier things. We

1152
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 2: need to look at those as well so we can

1153
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 2: learn from them as well, because you can get from

1154
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 2: them as much, if not more.

1155
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, I mean these are things that sound like

1156
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 1: something a mad scientist would do, right, Like oh, like right,

1157
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:34,080
Speaker 1: sounds like a mad evil scientist creating some kind of bioweapon. Instead,

1158
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 1: this is being used to help people, help treat people.

1159
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 1: So it's already there have been discoveries made about cone

1160
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 1: snail vinom. So there is an existing medication called zyiconotide.

1161
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 1: It's derived from conotoxins the cone snail venom and it

1162
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:58,040
Speaker 1: helps relieve severe intractable pain in chronic conditions such as cancer,

1163
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 1: and it's an alternative to opiates. Uh, it's basically used

1164
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:07,800
Speaker 1: when other pain management just isn't working or is contraindicated,

1165
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 1: because it's delivery method is still a little bit complex.

1166
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of like a kind of like a

1167
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:20,639
Speaker 1: spinal block it's except that it doesn't completely numb all sensation.

1168
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 1: It's uh injected into the spinal fluid and it helps

1169
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: block these these pain receptors. But it doesn't it doesn't

1170
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:33,840
Speaker 1: numb you completely. It just helps block the pain. So

1171
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:39,759
Speaker 1: uh it was originally discovered by the University of Research

1172
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:43,160
Speaker 1: uh the University of Utah, which is a public research university,

1173
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 1: by Filipino immigrant Baldomero Olivera uh So. Olivera had grown

1174
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 1: up in the Philippines. He had heard all these stories

1175
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 1: about people who had been stung or killed by cone

1176
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:00,880
Speaker 1: snails because he grew up in an area where conesnails

1177
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 1: could be found occasionally off off the coast, and so

1178
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 1: he used that childhood experience of like hearing about these

1179
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:10,680
Speaker 1: dangerous cone snails, and he was really interested in the

1180
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:15,680
Speaker 1: conotoxin in studying this toxin from the snails. So he

1181
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: and also another researcher, Michael McIntosh, were able to isolate

1182
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 1: peptides from this cone snail, and I'm by isolating it,

1183
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:31,360
Speaker 1: it actually instead of you know, causing incredible pain in people, right,

1184
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 1: they found this part of it that is what would

1185
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 1: cause the paralysis right in the prey, but in isolation

1186
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:45,560
Speaker 1: and in proper dosage, it actually blocks the pain receptors.

1187
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 1: It doesn't cause paralysis, it doesn't cause pain, and it

1188
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 1: doesn't risk cardiac arrest. So it's like from this thing

1189
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:55,720
Speaker 1: that is, you know, is a pretty nasty venom, they

1190
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: actually find something really useful.

1191
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:03,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, that's really fascinating. That's a great example. I'm

1192
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:05,760
Speaker 2: going to store that in my head next time I

1193
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 2: have to explain like how how important these seemingly esoteric

1194
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 2: research studies yeah can be?

1195
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Like who who could have predicted that like

1196
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 1: cone snail venom, right, which is a very nasty thing

1197
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 1: to get stung with, would actually provide pain relief in

1198
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 1: these extremely severe cases. And again, like I think also

1199
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:33,680
Speaker 1: like if this lab was doing this research today, I

1200
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 1: bet their funding would have been pulled because not only

1201
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: are they researching something that seems like, oh who cares

1202
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 1: about conesnail venom, but it's also an immigrant who's using

1203
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:49,639
Speaker 1: his experience as an immigrant coming from a different country

1204
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 1: with different experiences right to inform his research, which is

1205
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:57,840
Speaker 1: one of the whole points, right about having like diverse researchers.

1206
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:04,679
Speaker 1: It's it's like people with different life experiences, from different origins,

1207
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 1: from different countries, from just like growing up differently might

1208
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 1: have different research ideas because they have, you know, all

1209
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:15,000
Speaker 1: these like different things that where they come from. And

1210
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 1: so you know, it's this idea of like, oh, science

1211
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,599
Speaker 1: should just be complete, like it should just be based

1212
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 1: on merit system where we don't really specify what those

1213
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:28,640
Speaker 1: merits are. But who cares about having researchers who are

1214
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:33,400
Speaker 1: you know, not all exact carbon copies of each other. Like, Well,

1215
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:36,719
Speaker 1: one of the reasons that having researchers from different backgrounds

1216
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:40,080
Speaker 1: is important is because then they think of different ideas,

1217
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: Like that's the whole Well, that's one of the entire

1218
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 1: points of having a diverse group of researchers.

1219
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's so funny that we have to defend the

1220
01:11:50,160 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 2: benefits of diversity in anything, but we still do. Yeah,

1221
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:58,080
Speaker 2: but it's so well proven that people who are bringing

1222
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:03,440
Speaker 2: in different social experiences, different economic experiences, they have ideas

1223
01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:07,600
Speaker 2: and thoughts and backgrounds that will lend themselves to new solutions,

1224
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 2: to new questions. In fact, I mean it's no matter

1225
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:17,040
Speaker 2: how smart a person is, their subject to the limitations

1226
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 2: of their own experience and their own upbringing. And that

1227
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:23,880
Speaker 2: plays a role in the questions you ask, the issues

1228
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:27,120
Speaker 2: you see, the experiences you've had. So it's so that's

1229
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 2: a great example, this guy who was like I never

1230
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:33,519
Speaker 2: would have even heard of that, for example, this particular

1231
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:36,320
Speaker 2: type of snail. And this is someone who grew up

1232
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:38,880
Speaker 2: in a different place than me and can come with

1233
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:43,360
Speaker 2: that idea. So it is to be celebrated for that reason.

1234
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:46,479
Speaker 2: It helps it's better, we do better.

1235
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,559
Speaker 1: It's like again sort of appealing to the it's again

1236
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:54,200
Speaker 1: sort of appealing to the selfishness, right thing, Like so

1237
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:56,960
Speaker 1: like say someone doesn't care about like, oh well, I

1238
01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 1: don't care about diversity or immigrants because of gross reasons, Okay,

1239
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:07,120
Speaker 1: but surely you care about the tangible improvements to your

1240
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 1: life that could be made because and this is one

1241
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 1: of them, right, like having a different background leading to

1242
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:19,200
Speaker 1: different research ideas because you have different experiences that may

1243
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 1: not have occurred to someone else who didn't grow up

1244
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 1: around say cone snails. And so you know that's why so, Like,

1245
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:29,960
Speaker 1: and I just the venom Lab, Holford's Venom Lab at

1246
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:35,680
Speaker 1: Hunter College is continuing research like this. They're cataloging a

1247
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:39,519
Speaker 1: lot of cone snail toxins. They're looking at sort of

1248
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 1: the evolutionary history of cone snails, all these things that

1249
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:45,479
Speaker 1: again they sound kind of esoteric, like why do we

1250
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 1: need to form a phylogeny of these cone snails and

1251
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 1: all these toxins. Well, essentially what's happening is like they're

1252
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:59,759
Speaker 1: creating this huge database, this like library of information on venom,

1253
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 1: specifically conotoxins. But I think they have other research into

1254
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:10,120
Speaker 1: venom as well, and that will help us understand you know,

1255
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:13,439
Speaker 1: basically have like a library of different peptides, different types

1256
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 1: of venom, and that'll enable medical research. So again, like

1257
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 1: so many, it seems like animal venom is kind of

1258
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 1: interesting in that because it's so potent and it has

1259
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:28,080
Speaker 1: so many different strange peptides in it, they for whatever reason,

1260
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 1: present us with these unique opportunities for medical research. We've

1261
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:35,560
Speaker 1: found it in like of course, like the HeLa monsters,

1262
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 1: we talked about anti platelet drugs that can be helpful

1263
01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 1: during like cardiac events come some of them come from

1264
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:50,120
Speaker 1: snake venom. And there's also even leeches, which I know

1265
01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:53,479
Speaker 1: this sounds like regressive that we're going back to medieval time,

1266
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:57,720
Speaker 1: but leech saliva not not directly slapping the leech on

1267
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:03,200
Speaker 1: your skin and through blood litting isolating compound. There's this

1268
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 1: compound called hrudin in leech saliva is a direct thrombin inhibitor,

1269
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:15,240
Speaker 1: so it essentially like it inhibits this enzyme which facilitates

1270
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:19,760
Speaker 1: blood clotting. So it's an anticoagulant that seems to have

1271
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 1: fewer side effects as other anticoagulants like heperin.

1272
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:29,920
Speaker 2: And I will also add in medical school, I remember

1273
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:33,600
Speaker 2: this distinctly. There was on my surgery rotation there was

1274
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:37,160
Speaker 2: a young guy who got into a bad accident motor

1275
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 2: vehicle accident and had a lot of orthopedic surgeries which

1276
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:44,519
Speaker 2: predisposed him to clots and he had to be kept

1277
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:47,760
Speaker 2: still and casted for a while, and because of that,

1278
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:50,280
Speaker 2: literal leeches like.

1279
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:52,200
Speaker 1: From alaud medical leaches.

1280
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:54,680
Speaker 2: And placed on his medical leeches were used on him.

1281
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:57,720
Speaker 2: I remember being blown away by that. I don't know

1282
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 2: how much of that, if I'm being honest, was because

1283
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:01,880
Speaker 2: I just wasn't that privy to the case, I wasn't

1284
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:04,960
Speaker 2: actually managing the patient directly. How much of that was

1285
01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:07,600
Speaker 2: kind of like, well, this is part of a research thing,

1286
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:09,720
Speaker 2: let's see what happens or how much of that was

1287
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:12,120
Speaker 2: considered standard of the care at the time. So it

1288
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 2: is interesting, But yeah, there was like real like real

1289
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 2: use to it, real palpable use to it. Yeah.

1290
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:22,760
Speaker 1: I actually have also heard of medical and like these

1291
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:28,120
Speaker 1: compounds actually were derived from medical leeches, and there's also

1292
01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:32,120
Speaker 1: medical maggots. So medical leeches do I think they have

1293
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:36,800
Speaker 1: been shown to have positive impacts on say blood flow

1294
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:40,559
Speaker 1: in I think they're usually only used in like extreme cases. Right,

1295
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:43,000
Speaker 1: So if this guy's like has to be immobilized for

1296
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 1: really long periods of time and it's really like say,

1297
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:50,200
Speaker 1: really hard to have them on antic a strong antiicoagulant

1298
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:52,560
Speaker 1: for that amount of time, having these leeches might be

1299
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:57,080
Speaker 1: a better method, right than pumping him full of really

1300
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 1: strong anti coagulants for too long, because anti coagulants can

1301
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:03,799
Speaker 1: and also have like say a risk of brain bleeds

1302
01:17:04,360 --> 01:17:07,800
Speaker 1: stomach bleed. Yeah, but also medical maggots can be used

1303
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 1: to do bride dead tissues, so like, yeah, it's it's

1304
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:15,320
Speaker 1: crazy it's like, yeah, it's like some of these medieval doctors.

1305
01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:17,759
Speaker 1: It's like you guys were almost onto something.

1306
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 2: But right, they're like, what about the US how about that? No, no, no,

1307
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:25,600
Speaker 2: you were wrong about that. The baskets not so not

1308
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:26,120
Speaker 2: so bad.

1309
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:28,960
Speaker 1: There is bile. There is blood and bile you were right.

1310
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 2: About that's right. Yeah, they do exist.

1311
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:35,719
Speaker 1: But yeah, so uh, these things that sound like again,

1312
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:37,840
Speaker 1: like you could imagine someone going in like, why do

1313
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:41,200
Speaker 1: we need to like use leeches in medicine. That's stupid.

1314
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:43,280
Speaker 1: Let's cut all the funding to that and then lose

1315
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 1: out on these you know, these this kind of like medicine,

1316
01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:50,000
Speaker 1: which is also it also kind of bothers me that

1317
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 1: like we have weird, amazing medical discoveries and which gets

1318
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:58,080
Speaker 1: kind of looked over by like but what if what

1319
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:03,360
Speaker 1: about like horse dewarmer, which we don't actually find Hey

1320
01:18:03,439 --> 01:18:05,720
Speaker 1: if horse d warmer, if you did like look into

1321
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:09,000
Speaker 1: that and actually find an effect, that would be fine.

1322
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 1: It's not the fact that it's a horse d warmer.

1323
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:13,919
Speaker 1: There have been strange cases where we've had a medication

1324
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:18,680
Speaker 1: that's for something completely different and then researchers find out, hey,

1325
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:21,599
Speaker 1: actually this also does this, So it's not a bad

1326
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:24,759
Speaker 1: idea to try it, right, like to do a study

1327
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:27,360
Speaker 1: and yeah, throw whatever, throw stuff at the wall and

1328
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:31,639
Speaker 1: see what sticks. That's done, yes, and research in medicine

1329
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:33,800
Speaker 1: all the time. The problem is when you ignore the

1330
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:36,480
Speaker 1: results of the study, like if the study.

1331
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:41,280
Speaker 2: Doesn't exactly right. So it's just exactly right yeah for humans,

1332
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah it was. It's shown it's great for strongloids infections, yeah,

1333
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 2: and in river blindness and even scabies and maybe headline

1334
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:50,439
Speaker 2: and they have studied they're like, hey, it's good for this,

1335
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:53,799
Speaker 2: and they looked at it for other things like COVID

1336
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:56,519
Speaker 2: and found it wasn't that useful. Yeah, and that's okay,

1337
01:18:56,680 --> 01:18:58,559
Speaker 2: that's part of the process. Like, I love that they

1338
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:02,320
Speaker 2: looked at it. Just you have to then follow up

1339
01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:05,680
Speaker 2: and just like you said, listen, read and understand the

1340
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:08,559
Speaker 2: results or have it at least translated by somebody who

1341
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 2: can do that for you.

1342
01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:14,080
Speaker 1: Right, Like, but I feel very safe now with our

1343
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:18,680
Speaker 1: kind of uh the hhs what's his name?

1344
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:20,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure Bobby.

1345
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:24,560
Speaker 1: More Bila virus good, good, goodness.

1346
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:25,840
Speaker 2: Bobby more Billa viruses in charge.

1347
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:29,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're all good. I feel very safe. Break out

1348
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:31,960
Speaker 1: your leeches, everyone, actually would be better. It would be

1349
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:33,880
Speaker 1: better if he was like, hey, we should probably in

1350
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:36,240
Speaker 1: the leeches. Why can't they do that? You know, like

1351
01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:38,679
Speaker 1: if he was like he was the leech guy, I'd

1352
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:39,360
Speaker 1: actually be.

1353
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:43,599
Speaker 2: Like, you know what, maybe why not if he left

1354
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 2: the vaccines alone and just do weird stuff like that,

1355
01:19:46,360 --> 01:19:46,960
Speaker 2: I'd be on.

1356
01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:51,439
Speaker 1: Board absolutely, just like, just like vaccines work, all right, now,

1357
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 1: let's see if we should be incorporating more leeches into medicine.

1358
01:19:55,720 --> 01:19:58,840
Speaker 1: I'd be fine with that as again, as long as

1359
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:00,639
Speaker 1: we don't nor results.

1360
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:03,080
Speaker 2: It could it could. It could also go too far

1361
01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:05,720
Speaker 2: and there would be like you're just walking around town

1362
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 2: just wearing leeches because fashion red hat on their neck.

1363
01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:14,160
Speaker 1: That reminds me of I think. I saw like a

1364
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:16,679
Speaker 1: social media post of someone who had a pet leash

1365
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:19,439
Speaker 1: and put like a little pink bow on it, and

1366
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:21,880
Speaker 1: then it was just like time to feed my leech,

1367
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:24,160
Speaker 1: and people were like, what do you feed it? It's like,

1368
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:26,760
Speaker 1: what do you think, winky face? It's like, oh my god,

1369
01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:32,960
Speaker 1: a pet leach. Apparently, you know, I don't. I gotta

1370
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:36,439
Speaker 1: say I don't recommend it. Medical leeches are love it

1371
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:41,120
Speaker 1: specifically chosen to not transfer diseases. To you when they

1372
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:43,559
Speaker 1: buy you. So please don't like grab a leach out

1373
01:20:43,640 --> 01:20:48,559
Speaker 1: of a pond and adopt it. That's they can transmit disease,

1374
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:52,240
Speaker 1: and so that's not not a good not a good idea. Anyways,

1375
01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:55,800
Speaker 1: before we go, why don't we play a little game

1376
01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:58,439
Speaker 1: called guests Who's squawk? In the Mystery Animal Sound Game?

1377
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:00,800
Speaker 1: Every week I play Mystery Animals in you the listener,

1378
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:02,880
Speaker 1: and you the guests, try to guess who is making

1379
01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:13,519
Speaker 1: that sound. Last week hint was this start your engines?

1380
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:22,719
Speaker 1: All right, do you have any guesses?

1381
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say that's the kukura.

1382
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:29,920
Speaker 1: That's a great guess. Actually it's pretty similar to a

1383
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:32,679
Speaker 1: kugar barra, so I I don't think that's a bad

1384
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:36,559
Speaker 1: guess it bad guess. It is wrong. So you don't

1385
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:37,679
Speaker 1: win any prizes.

1386
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:41,000
Speaker 2: Can I have a second guest go for it? No?

1387
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:44,519
Speaker 1: No, you're losing points. Now you're off the board.

1388
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:47,040
Speaker 2: I don't know any other animals. That's it.

1389
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:52,040
Speaker 1: This is a congratulations to Anna La for guessing correctly.

1390
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:57,320
Speaker 1: This is the motorbike frog aka the western bell frog.

1391
01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:01,600
Speaker 1: They are small, all green tree frogs who live in

1392
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:05,479
Speaker 1: a region along the edge of southwestern Australia. So you

1393
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:08,439
Speaker 1: know what, you were actually right about the country because

1394
01:22:08,479 --> 01:22:11,080
Speaker 1: you were Kuckubra and Koalas, so you kind of got

1395
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:14,720
Speaker 1: the country right. And I feel like that counts for something. Yeah,

1396
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:18,920
Speaker 1: I could sense you could you could sense an autie vibe.

1397
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:22,559
Speaker 2: To it, really elongating those values.

1398
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:25,639
Speaker 1: Good day might ah.

1399
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:32,000
Speaker 2: Nah my, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I love

1400
01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:35,679
Speaker 2: the Australian accent and I think like it. I would

1401
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:37,600
Speaker 2: if I were to have an accent. That's one I

1402
01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:40,840
Speaker 2: would love because I think that like, no, no news

1403
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:43,760
Speaker 2: would really be bad news when it's spoken with an

1404
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 2: Australian accent, like I, nah, you got cancer? Ah, it

1405
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:51,200
Speaker 2: still like sounds pretty like cool.

1406
01:22:51,479 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 1: Yeah no nar oh nar uh no, I too love Australians.

1407
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:02,920
Speaker 1: Uh please please continue in Your country is amazingly full

1408
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 1: of animals, most of which want to kill me. But

1409
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:06,919
Speaker 1: they're still really cool.

1410
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:09,439
Speaker 2: So it's still worth It's still worth it right place.

1411
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 1: So uh yeah. These these tree frogs grow to be

1412
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 1: a little under three inches that's so and a half centimeters,

1413
01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:18,080
Speaker 1: so they're not that big. Their tadpoles are actually slightly

1414
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:21,640
Speaker 1: longer than their adult form, which is something that occasionally

1415
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:24,080
Speaker 1: happens with frogs. It's just that they lose that long

1416
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:29,000
Speaker 1: tail and they become more their center of mass, you know,

1417
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:34,479
Speaker 1: becomes frogified. So they seem like they're shrinking in masks,

1418
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:36,960
Speaker 1: but they're not not really shrinking mass. It's just that

1419
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:40,680
Speaker 1: they're less long and they become more solid. Uh. And

1420
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 1: so males make this motorbike sound, as you guessed it

1421
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:50,240
Speaker 1: their mating call, just like just like motorcycle riders, you know,

1422
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:53,240
Speaker 1: gravving their engines. It's the same exact.

1423
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:55,519
Speaker 2: Thing which I hear really works.

1424
01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:58,920
Speaker 1: It works so good. Whenever I hear someone's car where

1425
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:01,479
Speaker 1: they're muffler is, I'm like, that sounds like a really

1426
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:03,800
Speaker 1: cool person that I would I would love to get

1427
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:12,240
Speaker 1: to know. On the sarcasm onto this week's mister Animal sound,

1428
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 1: the hint is this, this little baby does not want

1429
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:25,000
Speaker 1: to be hung out to dry. Try to ignore the

1430
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:30,799
Speaker 1: soothing music, but we're really looking at that sound.

1431
01:24:32,840 --> 01:24:38,639
Speaker 2: Okay, that is interesting because it sounds like a baby crying,

1432
01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 2: and I don't know. The high how to dry part

1433
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:44,760
Speaker 2: makes me think it's like some animal that's can an

1434
01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:48,160
Speaker 2: upside down like a fat But I do think of

1435
01:24:48,240 --> 01:24:52,120
Speaker 2: animals that have that mimic baby sounds. Cats are one

1436
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:55,920
Speaker 2: of them, but that's not a cat. Foxes maybe a

1437
01:24:55,960 --> 01:24:57,720
Speaker 2: little bit, but it's not that either. I'm gonna say

1438
01:24:57,800 --> 01:25:02,679
Speaker 2: something so I know these little facts because we spent

1439
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:04,640
Speaker 2: a lot of time in the San Francisco too, and

1440
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:08,280
Speaker 2: all zoos have peacocks because peacocks are like good luck

1441
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 2: for user or something, and their baby sounds could sound

1442
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:14,600
Speaker 2: like data crimes. So I'm gonna say peacock's and the

1443
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 2: number one guests, and I know I'm not allowed to

1444
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:18,240
Speaker 2: do this, I'm gonna do it anyway. Goals would say

1445
01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:20,880
Speaker 2: qualis again because they can make weird sounds, So Qualas

1446
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:21,479
Speaker 2: is my number two.

1447
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:24,559
Speaker 1: Gain Walas can make weird sounds, and I can attest

1448
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:29,160
Speaker 1: to the fact that peacocks can make really weird sounds.

1449
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:32,200
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, we had a peacock just

1450
01:25:32,280 --> 01:25:34,559
Speaker 1: show up in our yard. I lived in San Diego,

1451
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:37,600
Speaker 1: so I guess this is something that happens occasionally. And

1452
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:40,160
Speaker 1: it wasn't ours, but it was just there, and so

1453
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:43,519
Speaker 1: my mom started feeding it bread, which is not the

1454
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:45,960
Speaker 1: is not like a good diet for a peacock. With

1455
01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:48,120
Speaker 1: this peacock was into it and it was like multi

1456
01:25:48,160 --> 01:25:51,439
Speaker 1: grain bread, so it had some seeds and stuff. So

1457
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 1: this peacock would just like continually show up and want

1458
01:25:54,280 --> 01:25:57,639
Speaker 1: to get bread from my mom. And occasionally it would

1459
01:25:58,439 --> 01:26:00,840
Speaker 1: get up on like our fa and then just like

1460
01:26:01,040 --> 01:26:04,000
Speaker 1: flap across the yard and scream at the top of

1461
01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:09,799
Speaker 1: its lungs. This is like a sound. They're beautiful birds,

1462
01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:14,439
Speaker 1: but the calls they make are absolutely heinous. So we

1463
01:26:14,520 --> 01:26:16,599
Speaker 1: would just be playing with our toys and then hear

1464
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:18,640
Speaker 1: this peacock screaming outside.

1465
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:24,280
Speaker 2: Like where's my bread? Scary?

1466
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:27,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And then when my mom my mom stopped

1467
01:26:27,960 --> 01:26:30,519
Speaker 1: feeding him bread for a couple days and it was out,

1468
01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:32,360
Speaker 1: it was gone. It was like, all right, if I'm

1469
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:35,720
Speaker 1: not getting my bread, I'm not here anymore. There was

1470
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:38,960
Speaker 1: no emotional connection to our family, just like I'm here

1471
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:40,720
Speaker 1: for the bread and literally nothing.

1472
01:26:40,479 --> 01:26:42,360
Speaker 2: Else could not be bothered, nothing else.

1473
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:45,680
Speaker 1: Well, if you think you know the answer to this

1474
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:47,479
Speaker 1: week's mystery animal sound, you can write to me at

1475
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:51,720
Speaker 1: Creature feature pot at gmail dot com. Uh Kevy, thank

1476
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:55,160
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today. Where can the

1477
01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:55,880
Speaker 1: people find you?

1478
01:26:57,400 --> 01:26:59,679
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. You can find

1479
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:04,280
Speaker 2: me on some social media like blue Sky at cave

1480
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 2: am the more importantly, listen to the podcast The House

1481
01:27:07,880 --> 01:27:10,920
Speaker 2: of Pod, where you can find pretty much anywhere that

1482
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:16,000
Speaker 2: you get pods and get them casted. So if you

1483
01:27:16,160 --> 01:27:17,720
Speaker 2: like the show, I totally agree. I think you're going

1484
01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:19,920
Speaker 2: to enjoy our show too. We try to look at

1485
01:27:20,040 --> 01:27:23,120
Speaker 2: medicine and health topics and science topics from a kind

1486
01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:26,840
Speaker 2: of fun perspective and try to make them more relatable,

1487
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:30,120
Speaker 2: and we take aim at a lot of medical grifters

1488
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:33,439
Speaker 2: and medical quackery, which I think is more important than ever.

1489
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:37,920
Speaker 2: So check it out. If you don't like it, you know,

1490
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 2: you didn't really pay for it, that's okay, and it's uh,

1491
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:43,679
Speaker 2: and just let it play in the background. That's fine.

1492
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 1: That's a good point.

1493
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 2: That's a good point.

1494
01:27:46,360 --> 01:27:47,960
Speaker 1: If you don't like it, you don't pay for it,

1495
01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:54,439
Speaker 1: so you know, yeah, are we going to do background noise?

1496
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:55,240
Speaker 1: Background noise?

1497
01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:57,200
Speaker 2: That's right. No.

1498
01:27:57,320 --> 01:27:58,320
Speaker 1: I highly recommend it.

1499
01:27:58,439 --> 01:27:59,680
Speaker 2: I listen to it. I love it.

1500
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 1: I've been on it, so I can attest and hopefully

1501
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:09,400
Speaker 1: you'll come back. I would love to absolutely take me

1502
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:12,280
Speaker 1: back so I can ask all I've got so many

1503
01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:15,200
Speaker 1: like it's like, why does my toe do this? Which

1504
01:28:15,439 --> 01:28:19,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna waste all your time asking about very specific

1505
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:22,160
Speaker 1: topics that are of no interest to anyone else but me.

1506
01:28:24,479 --> 01:28:25,559
Speaker 2: I bet you'll be surprised.

1507
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:29,599
Speaker 1: All right, guys, thank you so much for listening. Please

1508
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 1: rate and review that tangibly helps me. And thanks to

1509
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:36,320
Speaker 1: the space Cossics for their super awesome song. Ex Alumina.

1510
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:40,320
Speaker 1: Creature features a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like

1511
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:42,519
Speaker 1: the one you just heard, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple

1512
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:44,720
Speaker 1: Podcasts or I Guess what where have you listen to

1513
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:47,120
Speaker 1: your favorite shows. I'm not your mother, and I can't

1514
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:49,280
Speaker 1: tell you what to do, but don't let it get

1515
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:52,280
Speaker 1: he the monster bite you. It's got you gotta go

1516
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:54,880
Speaker 1: to a doctor for that. You can't. He said, it's

1517
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:57,720
Speaker 1: not gonna be a good time. Leave them alone, Leave

1518
01:28:57,760 --> 01:28:58,240
Speaker 1: them alone.

1519
01:28:58,479 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 2: Don't come to this doctor. Don't come to this doctor

1520
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:02,439
Speaker 2: with a heilo by right away. I'm not gonna help you.

1521
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:05,439
Speaker 1: I won't know how and you've been warned, right yeah,

1522
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:13,320
Speaker 1: don't please please don't try to get yourself in envenomated

1523
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:18,559
Speaker 1: and then expect cave to fix you after you're like, well,

1524
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:21,799
Speaker 1: I thought I could treat myself by having a snake

1525
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:26,880
Speaker 1: bite my eyeball, But do go to a doctor if

1526
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:30,720
Speaker 1: you get bitten by a snake on your eyeball, and

1527
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:34,400
Speaker 1: or maybe you'll have discovered some kind of amazing cure

1528
01:29:34,439 --> 01:29:38,440
Speaker 1: from that snake who couldn't say anyways, See next Wednesday.