WEBVTT - Apple to Add Satellite Features to IPhones for Emergencies 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanobek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.680 plus technology, politics, economics, all purtnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.000 analyst in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.239 Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.760 pm Eastern Time on the Bloomberg Radio or watch us 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:32.360 on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Uh. Do you want 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:34.560 to talk a little bit about Apple? We talked about 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:36.640 it yesterday, hitting or going beyond the two and a 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.839 half trillion dollar market cap range. At rallied about three 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:42.120 percent yesterday. It's down a little bit, just pulling back 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.800 about half a percent. And Uh. On the Bloomber Journal, 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:48.720 you might have noticed a Bloomberg exclusive about Apple adding 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:51.760 satellite features to iPhones for emergencies. We talked about that 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:55.360 yesterday as well. Getting to that story, Bloomberg News technology 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.160 reporter Mark German covers Apple for us with us now 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:00.720 on the phone in l A. So, Mark, what's up 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.840 with this? Thanks for having me. I mean, the end 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.200 of August also means that we're getting pretty close to 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:09.280 the lung to the next iPhones and lawn to the 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.880 next Apple products. And what I was discussing yesterday is 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:16.560 a slate of new features for emergencies and crisis and 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:19.600 s OS calls that Apple is planning to add to 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.600 the iPhone next year. These features would allow you if 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.680 you're in eight plane crash, god forbid, or a boating accident, 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.640 or a car crash or a wildfire in areas without 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.440 selling other connectivity, you'd be able to reach out to 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:36.880 emergency services over satellite infrastructure. UH. This would also allow 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:41.240 you to text emergency contexts as well as emergency services 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.520 over the satellite network through the messages app. And this 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:48.080 is a bit less involved. It's not as big of 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:50.600 a deal, I would say, as some of the dreams 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:52.880 people had about the iPhone turning to, you know, a 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:57.160 sat phone like you've seen in the classic Michael Douglas movie. 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:00.360 This is Uh, this is more about emergencies I was 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:02.720 thinking about. And I have to say in the newsroom, 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:04.200 we well, like, wait a minute, you're talking about like 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.160 those big phones used by the military that we always 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:08.000 see up on the big screen, or the mobile phones 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:09.840 we saw the movie Wall Street. You know, coming back 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:14.240 to we're not talking about that. We're not talking about that. 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:16.520 We're talking about if you're in a plane crash or 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:19.799 you fall off a mountain. Basically, there's this device called 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.280 the garment in reach and a lot of times people 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:24.760 who do extreme sports or hikers and such, they buy 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.200 this device because if something God forbid happens to them, 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:29.480 this is how they save their lives. You can reach 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.959 emergency services via text or call through this device that 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:36.200 connect to Global Star satellite network. This is what Apple 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:39.200 wants to integrate into the phone. Obviously, there are a 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:41.320 lot there's a lot at stake when you integrate this 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:44.480 tech into a phone, meaning Apple can't really turn this 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:47.480 into a satphone. They can't afford to basically kill the 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:50.160 carriers right now the technology in order to make a 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.720 true statphone, like you said in the movie Wall Street. 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:54.840 In the military, there's a reason the phones are ethic. 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:58.360 They require special intent as a special infrastructure that is 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:00.760 just not feasible to fit into an iPhone. At this 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.720 point that the battery life necessary. Something with that type 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:06.680 of functionality is likely five to ten years away, but 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.080 at this point we're talking about emergencies, and of course 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:11.600 it's it's a very handy feature and it will make 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.480 the iPhone more useful to additional sets of people. First 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.720 of all, what you said something, Uh, Apple can't afford 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.480 to kill the carriers at this point. If they could, 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.960 and if they could offer something that wasn't gigantic in 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:28.799 your hand, um, it sounds like they would, and that 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:33.679 that's where eventually this is all going. Is that fair? Eventually? Right, 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:36.200 But that's gonna be well well down the road. Right. 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:37.880 What Apple wants to do is they want to own 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:39.960 the entire stack. They want to own the phone, they 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:41.800 want to own the network, and they want to own 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:44.320 as much as possible. But there's a lot of stake here. 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:46.839 Apple can't just go around killing carriers that have helped 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.640 them build the iPhone. This this long, right, Getting this 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.440 infrastructure in place could take decades if you want to 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:54.960 hit this globally, right, They can't just knock out one 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.400 carrier in the US and expect all the other carriers 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.480 internationally play ball with them, right. It's something that really 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.640 would require threading the needle. It might never completely happen, 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.440 It might be an option in some circumstances, But I 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.000 think this emergency functionality is a very happy medium because 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.120 you're doing something that the wireless carriers don't have coverage for. 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:16.839 This is basically mitigating the lost space on the planet 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:20.040 without cellular connection. Hey, Mark. So then I am curious 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:21.960 for our audience because I actually talked about this a 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.839 little bit yesterday because there was some satellite companies moving 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.000 on this news, and there was a lot of not 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.239 a lot of, but there were alice weighing in and saying, 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.080 you know, uh, a Ridium might be the likely you know, 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.840 satellite company that partners partners up anything like this, as 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:40.599 you said, five to ten years approximately away. So if 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:42.640 someone is trying to make an investment play on this 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:44.920 in terms of the satellite play, it's probably too early. 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:50.720 I spoke to people who would know, and uh, this 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.840 report from an analyst at William Blair would said Apple 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:56.280 is likely to work with a Ridium is simply not 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:00.000 true my understanding. If they're not talking to a Ridium 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.679 about this, they held brief discussions with them just to gauge, 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.240 you know, knowledge about the satellite networks maybe a year 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:10.279 or two or three ago, but since then there hasn't 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.920 been any talks with them. Global Star put on an 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:17.120 sec Finally in February indicated that another company paid them 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:20.440 I believe around sixty million dollars to develop some infrastructure 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:23.440 for some sort of product or service they can't talk about. 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.400 To me. That screams Apple, but it's hard to know 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.360 for sure. If anyone's network was able to do this, 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:31.760 it would be Global Star. But I will tell you 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:35.159 that from my understanding, Global Star's network is not great. 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:37.440 I have words to describe it that I can't say 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:41.719 on the radio. Um, it's not really suitable for anything 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.400 other than emergency text and such. And again this is 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:46.520 going to be in very limited areas. You need to 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:49.080 call emergency services from the phone. You're gonna get a 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:50.880 prompt on the iPhone. It tells you you need to 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.360 walk around until you find a proper satellite. You're gonna 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.640 get air messages. Right, this is no perfect technology. Global 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.279 Star has not nailed it. And that takes me to 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:00.880 something I wrote a out a couple of years ago 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:04.400 where Apple's Ultimate bowls his deploy its own infrastructure. That's 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.400 gonna be five to ten years away, but it's certainly 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.760 something to working on. I love talking with you. Global 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:10.200 Star was the one I was thinking about because it 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:15.480 was up sixty yesterday. Dropped back another sevent though, uh today, 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.800 but great to get the clarification thirty seconds left. Uh, 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:21.240 there's a story to Apple's new Watch likely to be 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.200 delayed over production snags. What do we need to know? 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.640 Just quickly? Yeah, so we're hearing the Apple is facing 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.160 some last minute, eleven hour production issues on the Watch 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:32.520 series seven because the new larger screen. It's unclear if 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:36.200 this means a delayed release date or supply constraints. I 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:38.520 still say that a new Watch will be announced in 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.280 the next six weeks. Alright, good stuff is always Thank 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.800 you so much covered it all that is, of course 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.000 our Markerman. He's a must read here at Bloomberg. He's 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.760 our Bloomberg News technology reporter, uh, and he covers all 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.760 things Apple. Check him out at Bloomberg dot com, also 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:55.200 on the Bloomberg terminal, and always on his Twitter feed 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.800 at Mark German Crick. Check on Apples shares. We know 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.479 hitting two and after tally and market cap just yesterday, 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:03.800 stop giving back just about a half a percent, one 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:07.120 fifty two thirty five the last trade. You're listening to 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:11.880 Bloomberg Business Week right here on Bloomberg Radio. This is 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:15.920 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.840 Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, a lot of headlines, 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:22.680 of course, when it comes to COVID and the vaccine. 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.480 Today we had the European Union coming out reaching a 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:30.000 goal of fully vaccinating sevent its adult population. Israel reported 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.120 a record number of daily infections, and some news from 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:37.160 Maderna about its vaccine being more effective in terms of immunity, 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.840 potentially against FISER. So a lot to get through, uh, 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.800 and I believe that's pertaining to a booster shop specifically. 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.440 Back with us as Dr Mario Ramirez, he's managing director 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:51.320 at the national nonprofit organization Opportunity Lab. They work with healthcare, education, housing, 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.960 it's all about improving outcomes for low income Americans. He 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.120 also served as the Acting Director for the Office of 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.880 Pandemic and Emergency Threats at h h S during the administration. 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.800 Great void for a great voice, I should say, for us. 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.440 He joins us on the phone from Washington, d C. 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.560 Dr Ramire is good to have you back. Um. There 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.800 is a debate over booster shots, whether or not we 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.400 should get it doesn't make sense, how do you see it? 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:20.600 And why so? I am fully in favor of vaccine 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:24.200 boosters for all Americans at this point, Carol Um, And 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:26.440 I think this may stand in contrast a little bit 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:30.320 to what the CDC's Advisory Committee issued yesterday. But the 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:31.920 reason that I think it's a good idea for us 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.240 to roll boosters out to everyone here in the United 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:37.160 States is primarily based on what we're seeing in data 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.120 coming out of Israel, where they had a significant surge 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:44.040 related to DELTA. They coincided with a significant drop in 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.120 the immunity provided by the visor vaccine in that country 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.680 between the six and eight month mark. In the United 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:51.640 States is at a position right now where we can 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.280 sort of blunt the ongoing surge that we have here 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.840 and prevent a worsening surge similar to what they experienced 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.440 in Israel. And there's enough evidence, there's enough medical evidence 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:05.440 out there that the booster makes sense to have. Well, 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.160 doesn't agree ongoing debate, And unfortunately, one of the things 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:11.000 that we know during the pandemic right is that the 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.679 speed of information that we can get from our gold 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:18.439 standard randomized controlled trial, for instance, oftentimes takes too long 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.760 relative to the speed of an outbreak. And in this instance, 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:23.480 I think we need to depend on what we're seeing 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:25.880 from other countries around the world that have served as 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:27.839 good indicators for what we should expect here in the 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.800 United States. We saw what happened in the UK, We've 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:32.880 seen what happened in Israel over the last few weeks, 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.680 and I think, unfortunately we're unlikely to get that level 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:39.120 of data here in the United States in time to 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:43.400 blunt this worsening surge. I've also never seen in situation 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:45.040 like this, of course, we haven't lived for most of 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:48.000 us during a health pandemic where it's kind of like, 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:50.560 what vaccine did you get? Oh? Well, I got this one. 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.400 And I say that because today we had news that 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:57.240 murder Maderna's COVID vaccine generated more than double the antibodies 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.400 of a similar shot made by Fiser and by in Tech. Uh. 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.720 And this is in those initial two doses, not a booster, 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.240 which I think I said incorrectly before. So in that 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.880 initial two doses, how are we as a general public 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.840 supposed to kind of interpret that. Yeah, you know, I 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.240 think this is really interesting from the basic science perspective, Carroll, right. 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:19.400 I mean, I think what we saw from both BISER 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.360 and majournals at the five to six month mark was 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:25.680 that these vaccines were between the two of them between 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:30.640 nine effective at present preventing significant enough illness to put 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.640 someone in the hospital, which is really ultimately what matters 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.160 in terms of the number of antibodies that are produced 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.640 with either one of these vaccines. The more important determinant 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.640 would be how long lasting that immunity is, and that 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:45.080 might make or impart some ability to sort of make 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:48.240 a relative quality judgment between those two. But at this point, 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.720 we have seen evidence that shows that the efficacy for 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.200 each of those vaccines is dropping off between the six 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.640 and eight month mark, and so that's really what's more 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.959 important here, rather than the number of antibodies to get produced. 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:02.160 So it's a question I've often put to our medical community, 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.280 what should I be marking on my calendar as a 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:07.760 date to get my booster shot? Is it six months? 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:10.280 Is it eight months? I know we haven't gotten necessarily 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.120 the final guidance on this, but what would you suggest? 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.640 So it's an area of ongoing guidance. I suspect that 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:18.240 when all of a sudden done, we're going to land 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.120 closer to the six month mark. Um. You know, the 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.200 Biden administrations put out the September twentieth date as their 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:26.640 original sort of line in the sand, and that was 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:28.720 at the eight month mark, uh, and then we heard 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:30.720 from the President that maybe they were thinking about moving 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:32.959 that back to five months. And I think a lot 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:35.319 of that is based on data that we're seeing from overseas, 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:37.720 which is, you know, somewhat uncertain and not being conducted 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.880 to in the United States, which makes interpretation more difficult. 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:42.960 So it's a little bit of a moving target. But 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:45.040 in my own opinion, based on what I've seen from 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.760 overseas data, I think the six month mark for this 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.920 sort of third shot or booster is probably where we're 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:52.839 gonna land. All right, Gonna leave it on that note. 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.720 We really do always appreciate your time. Dr Mario Ramirez, 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:59.280 Managing director of our Opportunity Labs. As I mentioned to 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.720 he was uh former acting director at the Office of 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.920 Pandemic and Emergency Threats. That was during the Obama administration. 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:10.040 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:14.840 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stenovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, not 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.120 sure if you've noticed with everything going on in our world, 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.960 but jury's election underway. In the trial of Elizabeth Holmes, 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.320 remember her, founder of the blood testing startup Theara Nos. 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.160 She is facing charges that she defrauded investors and patients 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:29.160 by making false claims about our company's blood tests, as 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.880 well as about the Thoro Nos financial position. Tracking all 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.200 of this for us here at Bloomberg Bloomberg News Legal 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:36.679 Alice June grass So, she's also host of Bloomberg Law 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.680 weeknights at ten pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg Radio. 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.080 She's here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio. Good to 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.160 have you here. So tell us what's the timeline. I mean, 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:47.760 this gonna be a long trial. It's going to be 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.800 three to four months. So as they're sitting these jurors, 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.440 that's a consideration that they're telling them it's gonna be 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:55.400 three to four months. And also they asked them about 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.200 COVID by the way, one of the questions whether they 0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.600 would sit in a courtroom for that long with COVID 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.400 and what the have been vaccinated among a questionnaire of 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.920 about twenty eight questions that went into their hobbies, how 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.200 much they knew about this case, which has been all 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.600 over and if you know, it's HBO documentaries the movies 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.520 made about it, So they asked them that and they 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:16.920 all there was a question about whether they were venture 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:21.960 capitalism capitalists, what their experience with venture capitalists was. So 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.079 it's going to be interesting. Well, that's one of the 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.520 things I want to get to. I mean, the Charles 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.679 and Silicon Valley, right, I mean, so in terms of 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.840 getting a jury that hasn't heard a lot of information 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.480 about her and the company, Uh, is that going to 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.760 be difficult? And is that something that maybe weighs in 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.040 her favor and argument that they can put out there. Well, 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.880 so far there were about two hundred in the potential 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.240 pool that filled out that jury questionnaire, and according to 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:50.520 the lawyers, about half of them knew about the case. 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.240 But the judge has said that that is not going 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.280 to stop a person for being on the jury because, 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.640 let's face it, in the George Floyd case, in the 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.240 Marathon bomber case, people know about this. It's something that 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.120 you're not going to find someone and you don't want 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.480 someone who doesn't know anything about a case like this, 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.240 But what they have to do is make sure that 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.840 despite what they know, that they can be fair, that 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.320 they can judge it on what they see and hear 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.440 in the courtroom and not what they know from you know, 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:20.280 from a movie that they saw, from an article that 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:21.960 they read. Well, and I do wonder if having some 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.640 understanding of kind of the VC world and understanding how 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:26.960 startups go right, We cover it a lot here and 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.480 there are often a lot of claims made. There's a 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.600 lot of money that gets involved, even in the early 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.640 stages that can go on for years, and then companies 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.160 that just don't pan out here. How might that actually 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.960 help her well? I think that one of the things, 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.800 and experts agree on this that that the defense would 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:45.920 like to have. There are two kinds of jurors. I 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:50.200 think one is a juror that is savvy about Silicon 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.240 Valley startups and sort of knows that a lot of 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.200 this is puffery and what you have to do in 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.080 order to get investors to come in and against that 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:00.240 is going to be the prosecution, which is going to say, 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:04.600 we want to a line between puffery and between actual fraud. 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:06.600 We don't want this. This is the biggest fraud in 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:08.760 Silicon Valley history. We don't want this to happen again. 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.440 So here's the line. The other jury they're going to 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:15.760 want is someone that's going to be sympathetic to her defense. 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.320 She has over the weekend less Thursday, Let's say the 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.360 judge released documents that had been undersealed, so he unsealed them, 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:25.920 and in that it shows that the defense is going 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:30.560 to try to show that she was physically, psychologically, and 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:35.200 emotionally abused by Sonny Bell Wannie, her former lover and 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.320 the president of the company Profound Company. Right, Yes, that 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:43.520 he controlled everything from what she ate to what she wore, 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.680 and that she so the process here is that alone 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.200 is not a defense, But the defense would be dress 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.320 that she didn't know what she was doing. She had 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.480 no choice in what she was doing because he was 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.760 controlling or sort of like the mastermind and the puppet 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.280 that he was controlling her, and that's so she did 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.680 what he said. It's it reminds me of the gun 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.400 to the head defense. I had to do it because 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:07.160 that person had a gun to my head. So she 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:10.080 had no choice, and that would take away the intent 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.360 element which is the key element here. They have to 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:17.680 show that she intended to deceive investors about this, investors 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.160 and patience about this. Soon. You've covered a lot of trials, 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:23.440 a lot of legal situations, and I think about this 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:26.640 when in particular, almost everybody in the media I know, 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:28.720 we have Bloomberg have done stories on her. I mean, 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.440 for such a long time she was a get everybody 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.600 wanted to have a conversation with her because she was really, uh, 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:38.760 kind of up ending a big part of the testing 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.320 world in terms of how things are. How will that 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.440 I don't know, I mean, this goes back. How do 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:48.040 people kind of get their head around that. It's it's 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.440 such a tough sell to me because you have this 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:53.200 image of her as being confident and self for sure 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.480 for real Steve Jobs, she was kind of exactly and 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.440 also she cultivated that she wore the turtlenecks, she had 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.440 the deep voice that some people say was a little 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.760 bit put on and so, and also the way she 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.040 handled interviews and the way she answered questions. It's very 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:08.800 hard to reconcile that with a woman who is being, 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:11.960 you know, a puppet for someone else. The other thing, though, 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:14.639 that she has on Her side, though, is that Balwani 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:16.639 is not in the courtroom because he's going to be 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.359 tried separately because of this defense. He's going to be 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.919 tried separately next year, and they can't call him as 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.720 a witness because that would be against his Fifth Amendment rights. 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:30.320 So he emphatically denies this in court papers, but he's 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:31.760 not going to be able to come in and say 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:34.400 that's not true. Does that help Elizabeth? That helps her, 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:39.000 But still I think it's overwhelming for the defense to 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.159 to try to show this there there is a there. 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.640 She's been examined by a psychologist for the defense who's 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.760 going to testify, and also psychologists of the prosecution. So 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.600 you're going to hear a psychological you know, a lot 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.560 of psychological expert testimony, and that will come out both ways. 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:59.119 One side will say, oh, yes, she was order that. Well, 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:03.399 is she acted to testify? She is? And I find 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.520 this hard to believe, but she is expected to testify. 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:07.720 Her lawyers have said that it's more likely than not. 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:10.200 They told the judge that she'll testify, and in order 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.679 to establish this defense, it seems like it would make 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.399 sense that the best would be to have her saying 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.200 this rather than to have a psychologist saying she told 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.400 me this. But the problem is then the cross examination. 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.359 I mean, it's always a gamble to put someone on 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.440 the stand, but here you can imagine some of the 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.200 questions that you've been raising that the prosecutor is going 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:33.119 to raise. Also, she was did a deposition with the 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.919 SEC because she was charged by the SEC and settled 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:39.720 those charges, and she six hundred times said I don't know, 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.359 So now is she going to say I know? And 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:45.280 she never told the SEC that she was involved with 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:47.720 Sonny about wanting and that she was under his control. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.640 So you understand the legal world, who do you think 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:54.119 has the tougher cases at the prosecution of the defense? 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.440 Prosecution has the burden of proof, so they had to 0:18:57.480 --> 0:18:59.959 prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. The defense only has 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:01.840 to get one juror to hang it up. But I 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.840 still think the defense has the tougher case to make here, 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:08.720 just case for case, okay, And is it like if 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:13.160 she loses what then what's the impact on her? Well, 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:17.119 the biggest I mean the longest sentence would be twenty years, 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:21.200 but she'll probably the jail time. Yes, absolutely absolutely, She's 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.840 she's charged with multiple conspiracy counts and fraud counts. So 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.480 this is very it's very serious, and also the prosecutors 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:29.639 want to make I think they want to make an 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.480 example out of her that you know, for Silicon Valley, 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:34.280 because there's been a lot of startups, you know that 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:38.240 just they're wild, they're great, and then they just fail miserably. 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.840 Why did they pick on her? A lot of people 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.199 have been asking that question, so they really want to 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.720 prove their case, and they want to prove that you 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.399