1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: Mmm, Hello friends, I'm Robert Evans, and this is Behind 2 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: the Bastards, the show where we tell you everything you 3 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: don't know about the very worst people in all of history. 4 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: Every week I sit down with a guest and read 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: them an exhaustively detailed story about one of the worst 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: people in all of history. My guest is coming in 7 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: cold and this week my guest is Ever Maynard, star 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: of The Fields on Netflix. Uh. Comedian, writer, improviser, stand 9 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: up stand up performer, actress, actress more. Yeah. Yeah, I'm 10 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: a double actress. Let's talk about or a heroine. But 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: but who will make you want to shoot up some heroin? 12 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: Charles Coke? Um? Yeah. Today's episode is titled Charles Coke, 13 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: The Luke Skywalker of Rich People. Uh. And that's that's 14 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,959 Speaker 1: who we're gonna be talking about today. Before we get 15 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: into this, I have some nacho cheese der rito's. Ever 16 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: are you Are you a fan of nacho cheese doritos. 17 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: I'm not really digging those right now. I got through phases. 18 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: That's not going to help us getting a sponsorship deal. 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: Oh I love nacho cheese doritos. Sometimes I make nacho 20 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: cheese doritos with cool ranch Doritos and really have a 21 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: party in the mouth Doritos the chips for everyone nailed it, 22 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: and inside, I'm gonna do a I'm gonna do a 23 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: sound effect and oh a, s mr, I didn't know 24 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: what you're doing that. This is the sound of of 25 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: of ever enjoying a delicious Dorito's chick Love nacho cheese 26 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: flavored chips. So good. Well, now that we're fortified, are 27 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,199 Speaker 1: you ready to dig into the tale of Charles Coke? Oh? Yeah, 28 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: all right. There's nothing sexier than being a rebel. That's 29 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: why Hollywood has for decades glorified gangsters and pirates. That's 30 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: why the lost cause myth of the Confederacy still has traction. 31 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: That's why people are so eager to identify with the 32 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: hashtag resistance. There's something deep in the marrow of our 33 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: nation that makes Americans want to be seen as plucky 34 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: resistance fighters, each flinging towards our own personal death stars. 35 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: But what happens when your entire existence is the antithesis 36 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: of rebellion? What happens of you, through sheer accident of birth, 37 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: wind up with hundreds of millions of dollars. Oddly enough, 38 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: that guy can and we'll find some way to make 39 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: himself feel like a rebel. Today we'll be talking about 40 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: the story of one such man, Charles Coke, who, despite 41 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: being born into impossible fortune, came to believe that he 42 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: and his fellow rich people were the most discriminated class 43 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: in America. Over the course of a convoluted and bloody career, 44 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: Charles Coke would become the driving force behind the infamous 45 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: Coke Brothers and build a rebellion with a goal no 46 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: less extreme than the destruction of the U. S. Government 47 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: as we know it. I don't see a problem so far. 48 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 1: You're you're on board with this guy. So far. You 49 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: agree with rich people really taking one for the guys. 50 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: See what I mean, already getting hated on. I feel 51 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: your rich people. What's up? Yeah, yeah, they've taken too much? 52 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, okay. Uh So I should note right now 53 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: the tale of Charles Coke is one of those rare 54 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: stories in journalism where there is a single, indispensable reporter 55 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,839 Speaker 1: behind much of the coverage. If you're gonna talk about 56 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: sexual assault in Hollywood, Ronan Farrow is going to come 57 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: up a lot. If you're going to talk about Blackwater 58 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: and Eric Prince Jeremy's a hill is going to come 59 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: up a lot. Uh. And for the Koke brothers, it's 60 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: a reporter named Jane Mayer. She wrote a book, Dark Money, 61 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: in Steen that delved into their past and the network 62 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: of billionaire influencers they assembled to change American politics. If 63 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: you have read a long, scary article about the Koch 64 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: brothers in Politico or The New Yorker or pretty much 65 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: anywhere else, there's a very good chance she wrote it. 66 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: So she's we owere a lot on this podcast, and 67 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: dark Money is a big source here. Now, our story 68 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,679 Speaker 1: today begins back before any of the Koch brothers were born. 69 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: In nine, Fred Coke, the patriarch of the Coke family, 70 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: invented a new way to refine crude oil into gasoline Alas. 71 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: This scientific breakthrough made him a threat to the big 72 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: oil companies, and since this was the twenties, everyone was 73 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: even more corrupt than they are now. He was boxed 74 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: out of the industry and sued into oblivion for patent 75 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: infringement and other nonsense. So far not looking good for 76 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: these guys. It seems like there's no way to pull 77 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: themselves out of this hole. Nervous but just wait. Fred 78 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: Coke Law battled the oil companies for fifteen years, and 79 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: eventually the court settled in his favor and awarded him 80 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: one point five million dollars you know, in like thirties money, 81 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: which is, you know, pretty pretty good money to have 82 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: a million of um. They won because it was found 83 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: out that the oil companies had bribed one of the 84 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: judges who had initially ruled against him. In her book 85 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 1: Dark Money, Mayor quotes a family friend of the coax 86 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: Is saying the fact that the judge was bribed completely 87 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: altered their view of justice. They believe justice can be 88 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: bought and the rules are for chumps, which they are. 89 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 1: We don't agree the rules are for chumps, but maybe 90 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: that makes more sense when you're jaywalking less, when y're 91 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 1: so far I'm still on board. I don't see what 92 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: the problem. Yes, yeah, I mean, look, Fred was screwed. 93 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: This is so Far's he's the hero of the story. 94 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: Oil company. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm on board with Fred 95 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: Coke so far. He just pulled some money out of 96 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: their and he went to the dark side because he 97 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: was like, wait a minute, you can budge justice. Well 98 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: that's kind of exactly. Well, First off, while he's still 99 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: admired and this lost stuff, he finds himself hard up 100 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: for some money, you know. Of course, of course, because 101 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: he's fighting the oil companies. That's not easy. Wentworth, he 102 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: did calle j but the last name was Stalin, or 103 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: rather Joseph Stalin called him. Because the Soviet Union was 104 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: just starting to be a thing at this point nineteen 105 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: thirty uh, and they sent Fred Coke a telegram being like, hey, 106 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: we could use some help making some refineries, and you 107 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: seem pretty good at refining oil. And Fred Fred was 108 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: not read uh, did not like the Communists, but he 109 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: was sympathetic to their money, and they agreed to pay 110 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: him half a million dollars cash in advance. UM. So 111 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: he helped them refine a bunch of oil and build 112 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 1: Like his company, Winkler, Coke trained Soviet engineers and helped 113 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: put together fifteen new oil refineries inside the USSR. UH. So, yeah, 114 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: he does this work for the Soviets. It's great. Um. 115 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: If you hop over to Coke in dot com ko 116 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: c H I n D dot com the Coke Industries website, 117 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: you can find a timeline of the company history. And 118 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: in the nineteen twenties thirty section of the timeline. There 119 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: are two entries, one for nine when Coke Winkler was formed, 120 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: and another for nineteen thirty two when they took on 121 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: their work for Joseph Stalin and the U. S. S R. 122 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: Then the timeline jumps to nineteen forty in a parade 123 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: of boring oil acquisitions. Now the timeline of the company 124 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: website leaves out a job. Yeah yeah, and this job 125 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: occurred in the mid nineteen thirties. Uh. In nineteen thirty four, 126 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: Winkler Coke Engineering went a contract help design and construct 127 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: an oil refinery in Hamburg, Germany. UH Now the company 128 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: that hired where Yeah that sucks? Yeah, so yeah. The 129 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: coke industries to this day doesn't really like to acknowledge 130 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: the fact that they got their start in part by 131 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: working for the Nazis. Yea, most of the Republican Party 132 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: doesn't like to acknowledge. No, you can definitely find some 133 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: ties to the bushes as well. So now, in UH four, 134 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: the company that hired Coke's company was an American company 135 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: as well. It was run by a guy named William 136 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: Davis who was a big time Nazi sympathizer. UM and 137 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: he was trying to help Germany's oil industry get off 138 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: the ground. Now, back in World War One, Germany had 139 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: starved halfway to death under a brutal British naval blockade. 140 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: Germany's an ability to feed its people and supply its 141 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: military without trade was a huge source of concern for 142 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: Adolf Hitler in the Nazis. Hitler's goal in the nineteen 143 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: thirties and the pre war period was for Germany to 144 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: reach a state of autarchy or self sufficiency, so they 145 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't need to trade with the world in order to 146 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: meet their basic needs in case they wound up going 147 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: to war with the world again. Uh So Hitler was, 148 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: you know, modernizing the German military and buying a metric 149 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: fuckload of tanks and airplanes, so gasoline factored heavily in 150 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: his plans for autarchy. This was not hidden news at 151 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: the time. The president of One American bank refused to 152 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: fund Davis's planned refinery because he didn't want to help 153 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: the Nazis rearm Other people eventually did put up the cash, though, 154 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,679 Speaker 1: and Fred Coke played an into rural role in planning 155 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: and building the new refinery, which would go on to 156 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: become the third largest refinery in the Third Reich. The 157 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: factory that Coke built for HIT didn't just make a 158 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: lot of fuel, and made high octane fuel, the kind 159 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,119 Speaker 1: of fuel you'd used to say, keep the Liftwaffa flying. 160 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: You would almost compare it to drinking celsius. But I won't, No, 161 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: we can. We can talk shit on celsius unless they 162 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: start offering us money. No, I'm talking about being high 163 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: octane jet um. So. Fred Coke went on to loadly 164 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: regret his work with the Soviet Union in the year's past, 165 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: but he never really talked much about what he'd done 166 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: with the Nazis, at least after the fact. The time 167 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: that he'd spent in the repressive Soviet regime seemed to 168 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: have a huge impact on him. He would, you know, 169 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: constantly talk about the dangers of government control and what 170 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: was bad about having you know, too large of a government. 171 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: But he didn't hate all governments, just the socialist ones. 172 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty eight, he visited several countries, including Imperial 173 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: Japan and New Zealand. He described New Zealand as quote 174 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: violently socialistic. But he wrote this in a letter to 175 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: his mentor about Japan German in Italy. Quote. Although nobody 176 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: agrees with me, I am of the opinion that the 177 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: only sound countries in the world are Germany, Italy and 178 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: Japan simply because they are all working and working hard. 179 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: The laboring people in those countries are so proportionately much 180 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 1: better off than they are any place else in the world. 181 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: When you contrast the state of mind in Germany today 182 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: with what it was in you begin to think that 183 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: perhaps this course of idleness, feeding at the public trough, 184 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: dependence on government, et cetera, with which we are afflicted 185 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: is not permanent and can be overcome. So that's Fred 186 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: Coke being like, wouldn't it be great if we could 187 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: get rid of the New Deal and be like the Nazis. 188 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: That's where his head is in nineteen thirty eight. Now, 189 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: World War Two happened and Fred Coke, Yeah, Fred Coke 190 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: pulled away on on sympathizing with the Nazis openly. The 191 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: refinery he'd helped to build was destroyed in June of 192 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: nineteen forty four, after years of being targeted by the Allies. 193 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: For civilians died in various Allied raids on the city 194 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: that the refinery was in, uh Coke stopped talking openly 195 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: about fascism, but continued to warn the world about socialism. 196 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: According to the two fourteen books Sons of Wichita, Fred 197 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: became convinced that a global war between capitalism and socialism 198 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: was inevitable. Quote, I think these times are far more 199 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: serious than even Civil war days. He confided to a 200 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: friend and retired army officer that was merely to decide 201 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: whether we were going to be one nation or two, 202 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: whereas the fight that is going on now in this 203 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: country is going to decide whether we are going to 204 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 1: be freemen or slaves. Just maybe the most someone can 205 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: misunderstand the Civil War Actually that one was about slaves. Fred. Whoops, Ye, dude, 206 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: this Fred, dude man not what's your vibe on him? 207 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: So far? Well went downhill very fast. Yeah, you're on 208 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: board with him at first. Yeah, I was like, okay, cool. 209 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: You you're a scientist. You're figuring out what a way 210 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 1: to tearing crude oil on the gasoline whatever. You're getting 211 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: screwed over by the Wild Company. A lot of people 212 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: are all right, on to my Boyfrida. He's not my boy. 213 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: Well now he's he's he's no one's boy. Actually, because 214 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: Fred Coke does not seem to have had a warm 215 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: thought for anybody in the course of his life. Uh. 216 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 1: He didn't marry a woman, Mary Robinson in nineteen thirty two. 217 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: He was pretty brutal to her. Based on sort of 218 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: the recollections that we have, I don't think what he 219 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: did would have been considered spousal abuse in nineteen thirties, 220 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: but I think we would consider it spousal abuse today. Uh. 221 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: And did over times have change? Is not a hit 222 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: in the thirties if it's to a woman, but now 223 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: hit is a hit to a And I think he 224 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: was more of the shouty emotionally abuse. So he was 225 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: an emotionally okay, he physically abusive to his kids too, 226 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: which were we'll get to yeah yeah. Uh. So Fred 227 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: and Mary had four sons, Frederick, Charles, David, and William. 228 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: David and William were twins. Uh. Mary had an active 229 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: social life and was gone frequently. Fred was also always 230 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: on business trips, so the kids were raised largely by 231 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: an assortment of nanni's and help rather than their parents. Um. 232 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: I wonder what kind of impact. You probably have a 233 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: lot of abandonment issues and probably trust issues going on 234 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: you think, so, Yeah, well, I don't know. I'm just 235 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: going to read an unrelated passage from the book Tribe 236 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: by Fame War correspondent Sebastian Younger that just happens to 237 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: talk about what occurs when children are separated from their 238 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: parents at a young age too often. Yeah, just unrelated 239 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: passage to read us. The alienating effects of wealth and 240 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 1: modernity on the human experience start virtually at birth and 241 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: never let up. Infants and hunter gatherer societies are carried 242 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 1: by their mothers as much as of the time, which 243 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: roughly corresponds to carrying rates among other primates. Meanwhile, Younger 244 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: notes over in America, quote during the nineteen seventies, mothers 245 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: maintain skin to skin contact with babies as little as 246 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: sixteen percent of the time, which is a level that 247 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: traditional societies would probably consider a form of child abuse. 248 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: So sixteen percent is what a normal kid in America 249 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: is getting physical contact with their parents being raised. The 250 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: Cokes are being raised by a nanny. Uh and dark 251 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: money does not make this nanny sound like the cuddling kind. 252 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 1: So I think these kids are spending pretty much all 253 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: of their time isolated. Um. Quote the nannie's iron rule 254 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: terrified the little boys. According to a family acquaintance, in 255 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 1: addition to being overbearing, she was a fervent Nazi sympathizer 256 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: who frequently touted Hitler's virtues. Dressed in a starch white 257 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: uniform and pointed nurse's hat, she arrived with a stash 258 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: of gruesome German children books, including the Victorian classic der 259 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: Strue Peter, that featured sadistic consequences for misbehavior, ranging from 260 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: cutting off one child's thumbs to burning another to death. 261 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: The acquaintance recalled that the nurse had a commensurately harsh 262 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: and dictatorial approach to child rearing. She enforced a rigid 263 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: toilet training regiment, requiring the boys to produce morning ball 264 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: movements precisely unscheduled or be force fed castor royal and 265 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: subjected to enemas. So that's the first five or six 266 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: years of the Koch brothers as his lives. Yeah, I 267 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: didn't know there are four of them. That's when I 268 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: take away from that whole thing. Yeah, the Cooke brothers 269 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: that people famously talk about are two of them, Charles 270 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: and David. The others were not nearly is involved in politics, Yeah, yeah, 271 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: that's so sad. Yeah, it's a bummer. So it's I 272 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: think important to get that background because we're gonna talk 273 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: about a lot of terrible ship they've done. Uh. It's 274 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: kind of hard to imagine anyone turning out without some 275 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: weird quirks growing up in that circumstance, can't we say? Um? Yeah? 276 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: So the Nazi sympathizer Fred Coke hired to raise his 277 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: kids while he was busy doing business, and I capitalized business. 278 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: It's big business for sure. Stayed around until about nineteen forty, 279 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: when she got so excited about Germany's victory over France 280 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: that she moved back home to be a bigger part 281 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: of this whole Nazi thing. She said she wanted to 282 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: celebrate with Hitler, who would dude, good party? I wouldn't 283 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: because he couldn't. No, I wouldn't want a party with him. Yeah, 284 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: on a seriously, on the record, I do not want 285 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: a party with Hitler. I want a party with Stalin 286 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: like he was a bad dude too. But the drinking 287 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: bouts that you here described that the Russian high count 288 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: sound sound like something I want to witness. I've never 289 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: seen that, man, it was we have a whole episode 290 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: about it. But they were. They were the drunkest people 291 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: in history. Um. But no, Hitler not fun to party with. 292 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like this lady was either. So when 293 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: he was home, Fred Coke was a strict disciplinarian. Yeah. Sorry, 294 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: I'm really riveted by the story. I'm like, looking at you, 295 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: big do I uh so? Yeah. Fred Coke was a 296 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: strict disciplinarian, and in the context of this podcast, disciplinarian 297 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: means child abuser. Pretty much, he was a child abuser. 298 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: He abused his kids. One family member recalls him ripping 299 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: the branch off a tree and whipping the twins quote 300 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: like dogs, because they stained the patio and not stained 301 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: in the Yeah, but they spilled something, spilled something. Yeah. Uh. 302 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: In summer, rather than let his kids play with neighbors, 303 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: he made them dig holes and shovel manure. His biggest 304 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: fear was that they turned out to be quote country 305 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: club bums like most rich kids. Yeah. In his own book, 306 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: Charles Coke wrote, quote, by instilling a work ethic in 307 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: me at an early age, my father there did me 308 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: a big favor, although it didn't seem like a favor 309 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: back then. By the time I was eight, he made 310 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: sure work occupied most of my spare time. Yeah, little hands. 311 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: It's made me reconsider some of them, because, like I've 312 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: known some frustrating people who grew up very wealthy and 313 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: who didn't really have a realistic understanding of hard work 314 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: or how difficult it is to have to like make 315 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: rent and pay for your health care and ship. So 316 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: a lot of me has always thought if these rich 317 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: parents would instill in their kids some sort of respect 318 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: for what it takes, maybe they would be better people. 319 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: And this is proof that you can go away too 320 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: far in the other direction. Um, eight year old shouldn't 321 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: be working all the time. Holy small Yeah, yeah it's dark. 322 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: I mean I had to do some of that growing up, 323 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: but nothing too much. Guy grew up in Texas, so 324 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: like same here Dallas mostly okay, cool in Dallas area, Okay, 325 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: very cool. I'm from a little town. You know where 326 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: Temple is if I've spent a lot of time in Temple. Yeah, 327 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: from a small town outside of Okay cool. So a 328 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: lot of summers really helping my grandpa on the farm. Yeah, 329 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: And I spent a lot of time in Oklahoma as 330 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: a little kid, and we had a farm, like it's 331 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: good to have those experience, but not all the time, 332 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: all the time you should. Yeah. So it seems like 333 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: too far in the other, too much compensate. So yeah, 334 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: children being forced to labor will become something of a 335 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: theme later in Charles's life, and just put a pin 336 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: in that. Um. So, the young Coke boys spent a 337 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: lot of time boxing each other. This is one of 338 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,959 Speaker 1: the few non work activities that their father encouraged. Charles 339 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: usually won these matches, but once his younger brother Bill 340 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: was able to beat him, and Charles stopped boxing forever. 341 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: It's like yeah. Um. Charles had a somewhat adversarial relationship 342 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: with his oldest brother Frederick, who was more sensitive than 343 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: the other boys. Uh. He also didn't get along with Bill. 344 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: David Coke seems to be basically the only person Charles 345 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: Coke ever sort of liked. Um. Yeah, even Charles and 346 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: David are again the Coke brother Yeah. So. In the 347 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: grand tradition of rich families, Charles Coke was sent away 348 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: from home when he was eleven to the strictest school possible, 349 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 1: mainly because his mother was worried of what he might 350 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: do to his brother Bill if he stayed at home. Um. 351 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: He was shifted around several schools, including a public school, 352 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: but always kept getting kicked out due to bad behavior. 353 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 1: He finally wound up in a military academy, where he 354 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: did well until he was expelled for drinking on a 355 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: train alcohol I assume unless trains were Yeah, Charles behavior 356 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: was met with correspondingly severe punishments from his father. Eventually, 357 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: the discipline seemed to take hold and Charles started to 358 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: do better at school. UM. So we will be getting 359 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: into the rest of Charles Coke's adolescent gears uh, and 360 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: his adulthood battles with some of his other brothers, including 361 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: his his brother Freddie, who just take a guess as 362 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: to what sensitive means in the parlance of Yeah, that 363 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: was the theory at list was the idea that the 364 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: brothers had. So we'll be getting into all of that 365 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: and uh, as well as how Charles Coke wound up 366 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: getting some people killed through regulatory factory, and a bunch 367 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: of other fun stuff, including some quotations from the Libertarian 368 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: Reader and some articles Charles wrote for that. So a 369 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,959 Speaker 1: lot of fun stuff coming up, can't wait. But before 370 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: we get into that, it's time for some ads that 371 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: actually paid us money. I love it. I love ads 372 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: as much as I love the cheesy crunch of a 373 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: nacho flavored Dorito's chip, which I'm about to eat right now. 374 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 1: I love nacho cheese, Oh my god. My favorite is 375 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: with the lingering taste in the tongue and my fingers 376 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: the best part. I'd love to do that right before 377 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: I meet people, and then I still have like a 378 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: little bit of chip in my teeth, my back teeth. 379 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: I love it. It's like it's a little bit of 380 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: extra confidence going on. I'm always confident when I have 381 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: my Dorrito's nacho cheese corn chips. It's like there's a 382 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: party in my mouth and Hitler is not invited. Maybe 383 00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: Stalin us not for me. All right, here's some ads 384 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: and we're back. Uh Now. When we last started off, 385 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: we talked about Fred Coke, the family patriarch, how he 386 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: built the family fortune by working with the Soviet Union 387 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: and the Nazis. We talked some about his parenting strategies 388 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: and the Coke Boys nanny. Uh and we've just gotten 389 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: through Charles Coke's kind of troubled time in school. You know, 390 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: he spent a lot of time getting kicked out of 391 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: different educational institutions for being too rowdy. Um now. A 392 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: major source for the book Dark Money and for this 393 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: podcast as a result, was an unpublished report about Charles 394 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: Coke written by a professor named Clayton Coppin. Coppin had 395 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: been first hired by Coke Industries to write it in 396 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: depth history of the corporation, and he gets access to 397 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: a lot of internal family documents. Yeah. He was next 398 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: hired by Bill Coke to basically write an opposition research 399 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: piece on Charles Coke because the Cooke brothers paid each other. 400 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, we'll be getting into that. 401 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: Jew Bill yeah hired him and said, dude, I know 402 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: you've been digging around our family history. We got all 403 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: ourselves on the website. That's pretty cool. By the way, 404 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: I want you to here's everything I got on my brother. 405 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: Let me guess this dude's dead now, isn't he? Is 406 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: this dude? Did no? No Coppins alive? Yeah? Okay barely? Yeah, okay, 407 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: tell me more or at least as far as I know, 408 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: Coppins alive anyway. The report that he wrote was like 409 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: a book link report. It's unpublished, but mayor the journalist wrote, 410 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 1: Doc Money got a copy of it, and she quotes 411 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: from it liberally. So here's how Coppin's report describes Charles 412 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: Coke's late adolescence. Quote Charles spent little of the next 413 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: fifteen years at home, only coming there for an occasional holiday. 414 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: When he finally did come back, the first thing Charles 415 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: did when he came home on vacation was beat up Bill. 416 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 1: So how he's a bit of a dick to his 417 00:21:49,760 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: brothers Um, yeah, I'm off the train, your motherfucker. So 418 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty eight, Fred Coke became one of the 419 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 1: founding members of the John Birch Society. About John Birch, 420 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: I don't know bout Oh it's fun. So John burt 421 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 1: Society was a far right wing conspiracy theory focused society. 422 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: They would be kind of the nineteen fifties equivalent of 423 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: a group like Info Wars. Ok. Yeah, So the society's 424 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: goal was to stop the spread of communism in America 425 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: and push back against the efforts of secret communists hiding 426 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: in the American government. Oh they did. They start that 427 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: witch hunt in the Hollywood. They were a big part 428 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: of that. But they went a lot further than McCarthy did, 429 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: because the secret Communists they were going after. We're guys 430 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: like President Dwight D. Eisenhower. So Eisenhower was a lefty 431 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: by according to the John Birch Society. Yeah, the Dwight 432 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 1: Eisenhower who had the leader of the Congo assassinated for 433 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: being a leftist sympathizer. That Dwight Eisenhower is a conist. 434 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: Sometimes when you are that deeton in too, he's deep cover, 435 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: deep cover, you have to do things to make it 436 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: look like you're not. Yes. Sometime I get it. Sometimes 437 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: you have to overthrow three or four democratically left and 438 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: leftist regimes in order to further the broader goals of communism. 439 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying yes because you want to 440 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: throw the people that are on your trail off your 441 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 1: trail is possible. Hitler was a secret I'm gonna shut 442 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: you down. You should uh So. The whole John Burt 443 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: Society was the brainchild of Robert Welch of the John 444 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: Burt Society demanded the US retire from the United Nations 445 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: UH and ordered flyers circulated in Dallas, Texas. The day 446 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: before the arrival of President Kennedy The flyers stated that 447 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: Kennedy was wanted for treason and that quote, he is 448 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: turning the sovereignty of the US over to the communist 449 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: controlled United Nations. So this has been going on for 450 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: a long This has been going on for a long time. 451 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: All of this was more or less in lined with 452 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: the beliefs of Fred Coke, a man who, in publications 453 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: he wrote for the John Birt Society stated, quote, the 454 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: colored man looms large in the Communist plan to take 455 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: over America. Fred suspected the Welfare was a conspiracy to 456 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: fill American cities with black people, who would then carry 457 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: out a race war to exterminate white people. This is 458 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,360 Speaker 1: where Fred Coke's mind is, uh Now. The Kennedy assassination 459 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: was not great for the reputations of the members of 460 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: the John Birch Society or for Robert Welch. I don't 461 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: know about this, but maybe did they do it? That's 462 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: a myth. I haven't heard of this myth, but I'll 463 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: have to dig into it. If you dig into myths 464 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: around the assassination of Kennedy, the John Birch Society regularly 465 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: comes up. I guess I haven't been google and not 466 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: hard Yeah, they were just a big thing in far 467 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: right circles back in the fifties and sixties. Um So, 468 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: after the Kennedy assassination, obviously, mainstream conservatives denounced the John 469 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: Birch Society and Robert Welch is crazy uh and claimed 470 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: the society was a little more than a collection of 471 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: conspiracy theorists. Charles Coke joined the John Birch Society to 472 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: impress his father, but he actually hated the John Society 473 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: because he thought all this conspiracy ship was nuts. He was, 474 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: who did this, Charles Coke, Yeah, Well, he really wanted 475 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: his father. He really wanted his dad's approval because he 476 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 1: did not like the John Bird Society. Um he was 477 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: impressed by their organization and their fundraising prowess because they 478 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: raised a lot of money and they had a really good, 479 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: secret sort of political organization going. He thought all the 480 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: conspiracy bullshit got in the way of what the society 481 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: should be doing, which was actually conspiring to destroy the 482 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: New Deal and most of the American government. Um So, 483 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 1: that was his issue with the John Burt Society. It's 484 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: too much time on conspiracy theory nonsense, not enough time 485 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: dismantling the government. Um So in nineteen sixty one, when 486 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: Charles was twenty six, his father's health began to fail, 487 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: and Charles went back home to Wichita to help run 488 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: the company. Uh he'd been working as a consultant in Boston. Um, 489 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: and he hadn't been back in Kansas long when he 490 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: had his Doc Brown hitting his head on a toilet 491 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: and inventing the flex capacitor. Kind of moment um. Here's 492 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: how the Wall Street Journal described it in a fawning 493 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: nine article. Quote. One day in nineteen sixty two, Charles, 494 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: a newly minted m T engineer, pulled down a book 495 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: on the Austrian school of economics, which describes free economies 496 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: as systems of spontaneous, unplanned order. I spent the next 497 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: two years almost like a hermit, surrounded by books, he says. So, 498 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: Charles Coke starts running a company for the first time 499 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: and falls in love with libertarian economic theory and sort 500 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: of consumes him and for the next couple of years 501 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: he's just reading. Basically, he becomes convinced that in essence, 502 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: his company would thrive it was run on free market principles. Uh. 503 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: So he basically creates a theory for how to manage 504 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: a company called market based management UM quote. The free market, 505 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: best of all, agglomerates local interactions into a whole vastly 506 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: exceeding the sum of its parts, a phenomenon that Mr. 507 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: Coke is especially keen to copy. So his idea to 508 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: copy this seems to have been to have different divisions 509 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: within his company compete with each other. So if, like, 510 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: you need some of your employees to be trained, right, 511 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: normally there'd be a chunk of the company that's responsible 512 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: for training them. Well, in Charles Coke's company, that chunk 513 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: of the company exists, but they have to bid with 514 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: outside companies that do training in order to like determine 515 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,360 Speaker 1: who's going to get to train your employees. So basically 516 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: every business unit within the company is competing with rather 517 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: business unit in the company rather than working together. And 518 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: the goal was that this will hopefully keep costs down 519 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: and lead to more innovation. It sounds exhausting to me, 520 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: but but this is the idea that he comes up with, 521 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: like during this this period, this is his big like 522 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,719 Speaker 1: stroke of brilliance um And then also in the mid 523 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, so that mid nineteen sixties is when he 524 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: comes up with this idea for market based management. And 525 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: it's also when he comes to believe that his brother 526 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: Freddie is gay. Uh. He and a friend even break 527 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: into Freddy's apartment to try and find incriminating evidence to 528 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: this effect. Eventually, Charles organized his two other brothers into 529 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: a coalition against Freddie. This all culminated in a boardroom confrontation, 530 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: with Freddie on one side and Bill, David, and Charles 531 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: on the other. Now Charles told Freddie his behavior was 532 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: inappropriate and warned that if their dad found out, it 533 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: might kill him, but not before he disinherited Frederick. Now. 534 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: At some point in this ugly mess, Bill Coke apparently 535 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: found his sense of basic human decency and started defending 536 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: his brother uh and later apologized for being a part 537 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: of it in the first place. This infuriated else. It's 538 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: hard to say exactly what happened as a result of 539 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: all this, but Freddie did wind up taking a much 540 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: larger chunk of his inheritance in cash upfront, rather than 541 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: getting as big a chunk of the company that he 542 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: and his brothers all inherited. It's also worth noting that 543 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: that Frederick Coke says that the rumors of him being 544 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: gay are untrue and that his brothers were wrong about this. 545 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: I don't know what the actual case was. Um. He 546 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: was definitely less focused on business and more of an 547 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: artist and more interested in in that sort of world. 548 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: So it may have just been that that he was 549 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: a kid in the sixties who cared more about art 550 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: than running a company, and that's why his brothers treated 551 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: him like ship. I don't know, Um, But he never 552 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: started a multibillion dollar fundraising enterprise to essentially push America 553 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: further to the right. So as far as I got 554 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: nothing against Frederick Coke, um, but he got a little 555 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: bit sucked over by his brothers in here and probably was. 556 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: And it seems like that's mainly the case, um, And 557 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: Bill and Frederick are sort of the good Coke brothers. 558 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: Frederick kind of went off on his own and d 559 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: of lived on his own and didn't have much to 560 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: do with the family. Bill started a separate company and 561 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: dedicated millions of dollars to fucking over his brother Charles, 562 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: and then Charles and David are the Coke brothers that 563 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: we all know today. Um. So this is kind of 564 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: where that schism happens, right, Um. So fred Coke conspiracy 565 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: theorist and honorary Nazi finally crapped out of life in 566 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: November of nineteen sixty seven, aged nineteen sixty seven. So 567 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: at least shitty people don't always live to be fucking ninety. Um. 568 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: That's that's an upbeat aspect of that story. When Fred died, 569 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: his kids inherited a bunch of money and shares in 570 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: his company. Like most rich people, Fred Coke wanted to 571 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: give as little of his estate as possible to the government. 572 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: He did this by creating a charitable lead trust for 573 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: some reason that I have to exsume is indistinguishable from voodoo. 574 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: This allowed him to hand most of his money to 575 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: his kids without paying inheritance taxes. The only sticking point 576 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: was that for twenty years, his sons had to take 577 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: all the interest earned by the trust and donated to 578 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: charity here's dark money quote to maximize their self interest. 579 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: In other words, the coke As were compelled to be charitable. 580 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: Tax avoidance was thus the original impetus for the Koch 581 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: brothers extraordinary philanthropy is David Coke later explained, So for 582 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: twenty years I had to give away all that income 583 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: and I sort of got into it, so the Koch 584 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: Brothers will become major philanthropists, funding like museums as well 585 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: as far right politics and conservative think tanks. UM. In nineteen, 586 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: the year after his father's death, Charles Cooke left the 587 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: John Birch Society over their support of the Vietnam War. Um. 588 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: He has been consistently an anti war guy his whole life. Uh. 589 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: He discarded the conspiracy riddled far right nonsense of his 590 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: father for the political theories of Robert Lefev. Now. Lefev 591 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: was a libertarian philosopher who supported the abolishment of the state. 592 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: Because of this, some people call him an anarchist, which 593 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: is inaccurate. Um. See, when you're actually talking about anarchists 594 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: political theory, not just the term anarchy is a sim 595 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: for no rules, man and stuff scroll on the moment 596 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: of skateboards, but the actual ideology with an extensive philosophical history. 597 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: You can't get far without discussioning the concept of mutual aid. 598 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: Anarchists do seek the abolition of the state, but it's 599 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: not an everyone for himself ideology. I'm quoting here from 600 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: a pamphlet you can find online called What the Fund 601 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: Is Mutual Aid. Quote through mutual aid, anarchism take shape 602 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: as a practice and care, exchanging resources and solidarity, information support, 603 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: even comfort, care and understanding. People give what they can 604 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: and get what they need. When a group comes together 605 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: to push for a change, When social outsiders come together 606 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: to share or explore ideas and new ways of living, 607 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: these are all forms of mutual aid. In other words, 608 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: mutual aid is what happens when a group of people 609 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: embrace their dependence on each other and turn it into 610 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: a strength. This is exactly the opposite of what Robert 611 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: Lefev preached. Even he didn't like being called an anarchist, 612 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: he preferred to define himself as an autarchist. Which that 613 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: seems familiar, doesn't it. Yeah? Uh so. My only issue 614 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: with Dark Money, which I think is a deeply important book, 615 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: is that it declares Coke and his fellow travelers to 616 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: be anarchists. They are not. They seek complete independence from 617 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: other people because their wealth allows them to believe that 618 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: is possible. Actual anarchists political theory is literally the opposite 619 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: of autarchy. Um, that was just a layman's terms. I 620 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: appreciate it. Got a little loss. I don't know if 621 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: you saw my Sorry, I got off on a little 622 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: bit of a rant there um. So Charles Cooke developed 623 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: brain Bonner for the ideas of Robert Lefev. Yeah, philosopher, 624 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: and Robert Lefev, I should note, was not just a philosopher. 625 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: He committed mail fraud a number of times. He was 626 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: an FBI informant during McCarthy's purge of Hollywood. He also 627 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: orchestrated a movement to purge the Girl Scouts of communists. 628 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: He established the Freedom School in nineteen fifty seven. According 629 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: to the Freedom School and it's curriculum, the Gilded Age 630 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: was basically the best time ever in American history in 631 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: businessmen we know today as Robert Baron's were heroes. The 632 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: Freedom School believed that the poor should be helped only 633 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: by charity, that the Civil War had been a terrible mistake, 634 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: not because of the Confederacy support of slavery, but because 635 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: the Union had conscripted people, and that was a worse 636 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: thing than slavery. I should note that the Freedom School 637 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: did not support Confederate style slavery. The Freedom School actually 638 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: supported a totally different type of slavery. They wanted free 639 00:32:55,040 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: people to be able to sell themselves into slavery what. Yeah, 640 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: I'm like pulling a handbrake on a convertible during a 641 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: fish tail right now, excuse me. Yeah, they're kind of nuts. Hey, dude, 642 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: how much if you pay me? But then I can 643 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: use that money. Yeah, it's pretty nuts, um. And it's 644 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: one of those Like obviously, there's a lot of different 645 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: strains of libertarian thought, and I don't think most libertarians, 646 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: at least that I've met, do not support letting people 647 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: sell themselves into slavery. But that is a chunk of 648 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: the movement, and it is the chunk of the movement 649 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: that Charles Coke starts out in. So he is very 650 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: drawn to the ideas of these guys. Uh. He forces 651 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: his brothers to attend freedom school seminars, which they mostly 652 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: seemed to not enjoy. I guess they weren't. This is 653 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: an asshole. It's terrible. This guy sucks, Like he forced 654 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: his bro there's his brother. Man, this guy sucks, and 655 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: he's you know, he's the middle kid. But Freddie is 656 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: not a very forceful personality, so I think he kind 657 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: of takes on the dominant role with his brothers for 658 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: a lot of the time. And yeah, he's just so 659 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: angry he's really angry and he's really obsessed with control. Yeah, 660 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: I have some weird compassion for him, but a lot 661 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 1: of it is like, yeah, it's hard not to have 662 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: a little bit because clearly nobody would want his childhood. 663 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: It sounds terrible. But also his brothers didn't all grow 664 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: up to be like this, So some of this is 665 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: just Charles Cooke choosing to be yeah, a piece of crap. 666 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 1: Uh So his brothers mostly did not like the Freedom 667 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: School because I think they're mostly not insane. Frederick thought 668 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: Lefev was a con man and said this, and Charles 669 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,879 Speaker 1: threatened to deck him for saying So would you say 670 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: about this guy, He's gonna tell me why slavery is 671 00:34:55,160 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: okay if people choose it for themselves. Now, in nineteen 672 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: sixty six, Charles became one of the chief funders of 673 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: the Freedom School um because he just thought all these 674 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: guys needed was a little bit more money to really 675 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: really press their ideas home to American society. The country 676 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: was ready for this. Yeah. In the nineteen nineties, during 677 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: a speech, he claimed his life at the all white prosegregationists. Also, 678 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: the school was all white and prosegregationists. They weren't all 679 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 1: white as a rule, but Lafev said that he didn't 680 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: think black people would be comfortable there because most of 681 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: his students were segregationists. Okay, I guess that's honest. Like, okay, 682 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: I don't really know what else to say about that. 683 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: That makes me feel sick. Yeah, yeah, it's terrible. Um So. 684 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: In the nineteen nineties, Charles gave a speech where he 685 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,919 Speaker 1: said that the Freedom School is quote where I began 686 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: developing a passionate commitment to liberty as the form of 687 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: social organization most in harmony with reality and man's nature, 688 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: like the liberty to sell yourself into slavery. I know 689 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: I keep pushing on that point, but it really like 690 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: where is your head where that's an issue for you. 691 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: We're like you look at the world and all of 692 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,919 Speaker 1: the problems and are like, God, it's ashamed people can't 693 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 1: sell themselves as a slavery. It sounds like he found 694 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: someone or a group of people that accepted him, and 695 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: he's probably was like, Hey, accept me, and I'm a 696 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: big deal. I'm a big dog. Yeah. I guess that's 697 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: got to be it, because they're like part of it. Yeah, 698 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm trying to be nice to him 699 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: in a in a like, Okay, I think about his childhood. 700 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: He's sucked up, he's got all these bad things, and 701 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: then here's this school of thought that's like, oh, my 702 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: gun man, and I see you're kind of vulnerable in 703 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: a funked up kind of way, you know what I mean. Well, 704 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: I think maybe it ties in a little bit too, 705 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: because like he had joined the John Birch Society because 706 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: his dad was a big part of that, and he 707 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: clearly didn't feel at home there, but he clearly I 708 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: think he wanted something like that, and maybe his thought 709 00:36:52,800 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: was like, these guys can be these are his proud boys. Yeah, exactly. So, 710 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: as the nineteen seventies kickoff, the Coke brothers minus Freddie 711 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: are in charge of the company, which they rename Coke 712 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: Industries from Winkler Coke. Uh. Charles soon becomes the real power. 713 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,399 Speaker 1: He's working six days a week, ten hours a day 714 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: and sinks himself so deeply into his work that he 715 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: has to propose to his wife Liz over the phone 716 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 1: while looking through his schedule to see when he can 717 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: pencil the wedding in which I don't know if that's 718 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: literally true. When you read stories about rich guys that 719 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: they write about themselves, you'll usually run into something like this. 720 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: Paul Manafort says the same thing about like how his 721 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 1: first daughter was conceived in between conference calls, Like I 722 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,319 Speaker 1: think it's a thing rich guys brag about, like how 723 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: busy they are that they didn't like, Oh yeah, we 724 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: had to fit the wedding and in between all these 725 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: different acquisition meetings and stuff. I think they're proud of 726 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: this ship. Like how little work life balance they have 727 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like a healthy thing, but super gross. You 728 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,280 Speaker 1: know it's not gross. What products and services that support 729 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 1: this podcast and or program? Tell me some more? You 730 00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: know what, I'll do better than tell you some more. 731 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 1: I will pause and wait for us to play some 732 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,760 Speaker 1: prerecorded ads. I love prerecorded ads. Oh they're the best, 733 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,720 Speaker 1: and we're back, um boy, those were some great products 734 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: and or services. So during the nineteen seventies, the Coke 735 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: Boys are all sort of working at the company. They 736 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: take it over from their dead dad. Charles is running 737 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: things um and he increasingly takes full control of the operation. 738 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 1: In a three, Charles and his brother David arrange a 739 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 1: one point one billion dollar buy out for their brothers 740 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,760 Speaker 1: shares of the company. Uh, this leaves them in control 741 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,439 Speaker 1: of more than of Coke Industry stock. Now, while Charles 742 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,320 Speaker 1: and David are equal on paper, insiders report that Charles 743 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 1: is the company. Um. Now, I feel like this is 744 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: a good place to talk about what kind of man 745 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: Charles is now that he is a man and not 746 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:56,320 Speaker 1: just a kid. Yeah, not a boy, not yet. Yeah, 747 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: now he's a man. Now he's a man, and this 748 00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,839 Speaker 1: is the kind of man he is, because I think 749 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,279 Speaker 1: a great way to know someone best because a lot 750 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: of people are shitty to their siblings. Right, you'd be 751 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: a good person and terrible to your brother or sister. 752 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,839 Speaker 1: It's just life. I think a good way to know 753 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: what kind of a human being someone is how they 754 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: treat service industry personnel. H So I find this quote 755 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,720 Speaker 1: from Dark Money to be rather revealing quote. A former 756 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,760 Speaker 1: doorman described Coke as the cheapest person in the building. 757 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,359 Speaker 1: We would load up his trucks two vans, usually every 758 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,359 Speaker 1: weekend for the Hampton's in and out, in and out, 759 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: heavy bags. We would never get a tip from Mr Coke. 760 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: We would never get a smile from Mr Coke for Christmas, 761 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: which the Doorman had anticipated would make up for the 762 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,799 Speaker 1: years travails. Coke merely gave him a fifty dollar check 763 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 1: when the documentary aired. This was a documentary where this 764 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 1: stuff about how he treated these people came out. When 765 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,320 Speaker 1: the documentary aired on public broadcasting service in two thousand twelve, 766 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,479 Speaker 1: David Coke was so incensed he resigned from the board 767 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 1: of New York's public television station w n ET, reneging 768 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: on a promise to make a major donation. A spokeswoman 769 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: at Coke Industries declined to comment on whether the documentary 770 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 1: was his reason for punishing the station, but Coke bluntly 771 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: told one friend about the film, it's going to cost 772 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: them ten million. Another family friend is quoted as saying, 773 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: they move in a world with people like them or 774 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: who want to be. They know no poor people at all. 775 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: They're not the kind of people who feel obligated to 776 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: get to know the help. So this is Charles and 777 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,280 Speaker 1: David Coke. Uh. Now, under Charles's rule, Coke Industries expanded 778 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,280 Speaker 1: from a company worth hundreds of millions to a company 779 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: worth tens of billions, the largest privately owned company in 780 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: the world right now. In the nineteen seventies, and eighties. 781 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,280 Speaker 1: Their business was mostly oil and gas refining. The center 782 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: of it all was the Pine Bind refinery, which takes 783 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,359 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of gallons of filthy Canadian crude oil 784 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: from the Tar Sans and turns it into usable gas. 785 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,320 Speaker 1: This process is incredibly wasteful and produces an enormous amount 786 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,959 Speaker 1: of pollution, but it's also super profitable because you're buying 787 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: garbage oil from Canada and turning it into premo ship. 788 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: So Charles Coke is not just an oil man. He's 789 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: decided to be like the dirtiest possible version of an 790 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: oil man UM and he does not give one funk 791 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,359 Speaker 1: about regulations and rules meant to minimize the environmental harm 792 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: of his company or do bullshit like protect workers from 793 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 1: danger and horrific disease UM. Starting in the nineteen seventies, OSHA, 794 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: the organization dedicated to stopping companies from killing their workers UH, 795 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 1: the Comtattional Health and Safety Administration put in place new 796 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: regulations that required companies to give annual blood tests to 797 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: workers who spent a lot of time around benzene UH. 798 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: They're also required to warn these employees if the tests 799 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: show any abnormalities. So that the employees can receive medical 800 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: treatment before they get full on blood cancer or whatever. Right, 801 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 1: Coke Refining Company offered these tests, but they didn't do 802 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: such a good job about letting employees know when they 803 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 1: had a regular results. Sometimes they just wouldn't tell them. 804 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,439 Speaker 1: So Donald Carlson, a dedicated employee with decades in the job, 805 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: was not informed within his results showed abnormal blood cell 806 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 1: counts in nineteen nine. He wasn't warned about this until 807 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: nineteen when he started to get well, because you want 808 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 1: to get those extra couple of years out of him. Right, 809 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: this is disgusting. It's pretty bad. It's pretty bad. These 810 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: guys are disgusting. Yeah, they're really terrible. Um Now, Donald 811 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: continued to work after he got sick. Uh. So he 812 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: was doing his job while receiving massive frequent blood transfusions. 813 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: He loved his job. His job was like scrubbing out 814 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: like the his cleaning tanks from refinery and stuff. Like 815 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,360 Speaker 1: he was doing dirty work. But he was just a 816 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,520 Speaker 1: working class guy. He wanted to do his job and 817 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,879 Speaker 1: take care of his family. He was like he took 818 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: pride in it. He was your the best case scenario 819 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,359 Speaker 1: if you're like a big capitalist boss. He was your 820 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 1: best case scenario of an employee. But in nineteen six 821 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,840 Speaker 1: he got too sick to work anymore. He was immediately 822 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,800 Speaker 1: fired and given six months severance pay, which almost sounds 823 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 1: generous given the Koch brothers being the Koch brothers, But 824 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 1: it turns out this was just his accumulated sick pay 825 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: leave that they were legally required to pay out um. 826 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 1: They gave him nothing that they weren't required to give 827 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: him now. Carlson filed for workman's comp which seems like 828 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 1: a job related illness getting blood poisoning from horrific benzine exposure, 829 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,239 Speaker 1: but Coke Refining refused. They weren't about to pay his 830 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,479 Speaker 1: medical bills or give benefits to his wife and daughter. 831 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 1: They denied that his illness had anything to do with 832 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,279 Speaker 1: the fact that he had been covered in poisoned for years. 833 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 1: He died in leaving his family destitute. His wife continued 834 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,920 Speaker 1: to fight the company for some restitution. They eventually settled 835 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 1: with her for an undisclosed and out now. During my 836 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 1: research for this, I found an article on benzing exposure 837 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: from the Center for Public Integrity. It had Facebook comments enabled, 838 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: and one of the commenters on the article was a 839 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: woman named Mary Arnisson. Now Mary is a preventative medicine 840 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 1: physician who testified against Coke Industries during the Carlson case. 841 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,840 Speaker 1: So she wrote in the comments to this article about 842 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:22,760 Speaker 1: her experience testifying against Coke Industries in this blood poison case. Quote. 843 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,480 Speaker 1: I was shocked by the behavior of Coke's hired gun 844 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,960 Speaker 1: hematologist who concealed the blood monitoring results that showed his 845 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 1: worsening anemia, and by that doctor's blaming cigarette smoking much 846 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: lower benzing exposure than waiting through spilled gasoline for his 847 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 1: eventual development of leukemia. When it became obvious that I 848 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,880 Speaker 1: was on my way to testify against Coke, they withdrew 849 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: their objection to his widow's claim for work comp benefits 850 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 1: and payment of his medical bills. I still see. I 851 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 1: hate Coke. So basically, up until they were forced to 852 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: by the courts, they were lying and saying the fact 853 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: that this guy had smoked cigarettes is why he got leukemia. 854 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: The fact that he was literally almost bathing and benzing 855 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,879 Speaker 1: very heavy. Yeah, so they're not they're not. They kind 856 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: of started. They were definitely in on that trend that 857 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 1: a lot of big companies follow today they were pioneers. 858 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, these boys coach boys, pioneer boys. Yeah yeah. 859 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,120 Speaker 1: Coke boys are on the cutting edge of sucking over 860 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 1: their workers and letting hazardous chemical exposure kill people. Um, 861 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,600 Speaker 1: they might be the Michael Jordan's of hazardous chemical exposures. Yes, 862 00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 1: go maybe the Scottie Pippen p um so. Oh you're 863 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,440 Speaker 1: from Texas to so this will be fun. Coke Industries 864 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,600 Speaker 1: also owned a big refinery in Corpus Christie, Texas. Now, 865 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: how would you describe sort of the attitude towards Corpus 866 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,799 Speaker 1: Christie within Texas. Corpus Christie is like your spring bake 867 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,479 Speaker 1: kind of vacation. Yeah. That in Galveston, Mustang Island. Yeah, 868 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: I went once. You know. It's like all the high 869 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,040 Speaker 1: school kids like corpett Yeah, and they're they're okay. It's 870 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,320 Speaker 1: an okay place. The water is kind of gross compared 871 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,319 Speaker 1: to like Hawaii or the West Coast. Gross Hawaii would 872 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,400 Speaker 1: not be a bad way to describe its gross. Hawaii. Um, 873 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,400 Speaker 1: My brother is actually a tankerman on ships and he 874 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 1: goes out and I'm always worried about because he's right 875 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,600 Speaker 1: in the thick of that. Yeah, but I'm always kind 876 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,759 Speaker 1: of worried about like chemical exposure. Yeah, him, Yeah, I 877 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 1: mean that seems totally reasonable. There's a lot of refining 878 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:24,879 Speaker 1: and a lot of gross stuff going on. For sure, 879 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 1: would not want to swim in that water, And looking back, 880 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, why would you go? Why did my parents 881 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,919 Speaker 1: let me swim in that day? It's just poison Galveston too, Yeah, 882 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,840 Speaker 1: you know. Anyways, Yeah, no, absolutely, and the Koke Brothers 883 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,960 Speaker 1: are a big part of why it is that way. Yeah, 884 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 1: it's great, it's great. Um. Yeah. So they had a 885 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,960 Speaker 1: big refiner in Corpus Christie that was quote hemorrhaging benzene 886 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,719 Speaker 1: into the air, which is a great thing to do 887 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:55,000 Speaker 1: with benzene is hemorrhage. Regulation required them to reduce emissions, 888 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,040 Speaker 1: so they just lied about how bad the emissions were 889 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 1: when they filed their reports with the Texas National Resource 890 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,680 Speaker 1: Conservation Commission, which is fun. Yeah, they said they were 891 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,239 Speaker 1: putting out less poison than they were and assumed it'd 892 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,920 Speaker 1: be fine. So a lawyer within the company, within Coke Industries, 893 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 1: actually called them out for lying to the government and 894 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,480 Speaker 1: was like, we can't defend this in the court. This 895 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 1: is just fraud. So Coke Industry sent in one of 896 00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:19,920 Speaker 1: their own people to actually figure out how much the 897 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,320 Speaker 1: factory was polluting over the limit. This report revealed horrific 898 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,120 Speaker 1: levels of ben zeene. Rather than report this, Coke Industry 899 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,360 Speaker 1: has just decided to lie again and say their emissions 900 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,400 Speaker 1: were one forty nine of what their own people had found. 901 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 1: So they're not just lying by a little that they 902 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: are holy ship Like I said that the Scottie Pippen 903 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,120 Speaker 1: of poison. Um well, I said, Michael Jordan's I don't know, 904 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:46,479 Speaker 1: they're all about it. That's a half point Sam Dunk show. 905 00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,920 Speaker 1: Assume that's all above board and accurate. Yeah, the employee 906 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,440 Speaker 1: who had done the research wind up blowing the whistle 907 00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,400 Speaker 1: and in two thousand Coke Industries was indicted on ninety 908 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,319 Speaker 1: seven accounts of being shady as during the trial it 909 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,200 Speaker 1: was revealed that just refitting the refinery to make it 910 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,320 Speaker 1: put out the legal amount of missions would have cost 911 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:10,239 Speaker 1: seven million dollars, which seems expensive. But that's not no, no, 912 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,319 Speaker 1: it's not it's not. Wow. Yeah, So this is they 913 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,920 Speaker 1: were willing to lie and put out huge amounts of 914 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,360 Speaker 1: poison rather than spend seven million dollars on a refinery 915 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,719 Speaker 1: that made a hundred and seventy six million in annual profits. 916 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,759 Speaker 1: So it's not a big drop in the bucket, you know, 917 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 1: it's not even a drop in the bucket. No, I 918 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:34,000 Speaker 1: found a quarter outside. Yeah, that's finding a quarter outside. Yeah, 919 00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 1: or losing a quarter. Yeah, you're like, oh, man, a quarter, 920 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,719 Speaker 1: that's laundry. But they are like, what's laundry? You know? Yeah? Yeah, 921 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,440 Speaker 1: they burned their clothing after where Yeah. Uh So when 922 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,840 Speaker 1: everything shook out, they wound up paying about ten million 923 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: in fees and another ten million to make Corpus Christie 924 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,239 Speaker 1: a little bit cleaner. Uh So, on the surface, it 925 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,080 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to make a lot of economic sense what 926 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,160 Speaker 1: they're doing. Seven million dollars because they had to wind 927 00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:58,399 Speaker 1: up doing the refitting anyway, so they paid seven million 928 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,239 Speaker 1: dollars to comply with the missions requirement. Uh and then 929 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,879 Speaker 1: another twenty million dollars in fines, which means they spent 930 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,080 Speaker 1: four or five times more than what the repairs would 931 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,920 Speaker 1: have cost because they decided to break the law. So 932 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 1: it might seem, when you look at it that way, 933 00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,120 Speaker 1: that this was just a bad gamble by Charles Coke, 934 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 1: But Charles Coke doesn't make bad gambles. And he doesn't 935 00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:20,520 Speaker 1: flout regulations to save money. He does so because ignoring 936 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,520 Speaker 1: government regulations is basically his religion. Like it's like like 937 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,040 Speaker 1: like being a billionaire who doesn't comply with the government 938 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,480 Speaker 1: is like his he that's his Jedi faith, and he's 939 00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,840 Speaker 1: what are you going to do about it? Yeah? Yeah, exactly. 940 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,640 Speaker 1: He's the Luke Skywalker of of polluting. Yeah. Uh. So 941 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: we can get an understanding of Charles Coke's thinking during 942 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,280 Speaker 1: his first couple of decades in charge of Coke Industries 943 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,279 Speaker 1: by reading the stuff that he was writing at the time. 944 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 1: So in nineteen eight he contributed an article to The 945 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,000 Speaker 1: Libertarian Reader to give you an idea of the intellectual 946 00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,800 Speaker 1: tenor of this publication. Uh. An ad on the second 947 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,280 Speaker 1: page is titled let's hear it for the first Amendment 948 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 1: while we still can. Here's how it opens. Government censorship 949 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,240 Speaker 1: is about to take a great leap forward. A government agency, 950 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,560 Speaker 1: the Federal Communications Commission, believes it has the right to 951 00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,160 Speaker 1: act as our parents and restrict the broadcast of certain 952 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,560 Speaker 1: words at times when children just might be listening. Uh. 953 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,520 Speaker 1: There's a box in the middle of the ad that 954 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,759 Speaker 1: just says banned with a question mark and then has 955 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,440 Speaker 1: a list of works including the Bible, Ernest Hemingway, Chaucer, 956 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,040 Speaker 1: you know that big campaign to ban Shaucer, George Orwell, 957 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,279 Speaker 1: and the Nixon Watergate tapes, all of which you are 958 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,560 Speaker 1: still legal. Uh. It ends with a plea for money. Uh. 959 00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,400 Speaker 1: That says this coupon fights censorship. Yes, I want to 960 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,800 Speaker 1: help save the public airways from the obscenity of government control. 961 00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:41,280 Speaker 1: Here's my tax deductible and tax deductible is italicized contribution. Yeah. 962 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,480 Speaker 1: So that's the first ad in the Libertarian Reader the 963 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,040 Speaker 1: issue that Charles Coke uh submitted an article called the 964 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,840 Speaker 1: Business Community Resisting Regulation. That's all the s are z 965 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:59,160 Speaker 1: s right. You're imagine this is like a zine just 966 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:07,799 Speaker 1: for the coach boys boys business. No, um, it was. 967 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,480 Speaker 1: This article was part of a series called Towards the 968 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:15,320 Speaker 1: Second American Revolution Libertarian Strategies for Today, and in this article, 969 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,800 Speaker 1: Coke rails against what he calls political capitalism, which he 970 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,719 Speaker 1: defines as a terrible state of affairs wherein businesses work 971 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:26,160 Speaker 1: with the government and don't reject all regulation out of hand. Quote. 972 00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,480 Speaker 1: The final stage of political capitalism is even worse. Richard Ferris, 973 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,960 Speaker 1: president of United airlines an exception in his industry predicts 974 00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,360 Speaker 1: continued government control would mean airline service as you know 975 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,000 Speaker 1: it today will be seriously jeopardized and his service and 976 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,959 Speaker 1: equipment deteriorate. You will stand by helplessly as the threat 977 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,359 Speaker 1: of nationalization becomes reality. You remember when the government took 978 00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,680 Speaker 1: over all the airlines do? Yeah, it was a bad thing. 979 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:54,880 Speaker 1: If the airlines had remained private companies, I'm sure there 980 00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:58,000 Speaker 1: would be a lot of leg room on flights, good food, 981 00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,560 Speaker 1: high quality customer service. People would not get dragged out 982 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:07,080 Speaker 1: of flights because they got overbooked. This makes me sick. Uh. 983 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,319 Speaker 1: In his article, Charles argues that businessmen should refuse subsidies 984 00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:12,839 Speaker 1: from the government, so they shouldn't even take money from 985 00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,960 Speaker 1: the government and refuse to comply with regulations, even ones 986 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,920 Speaker 1: that benefit their particular business or hurt a competitor. The 987 00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,200 Speaker 1: goal is reducing taxes and thus reducing the government. Nothing 988 00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:28,480 Speaker 1: else matters. Regulators must be they have to be battled 989 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,520 Speaker 1: at all costs. Uh. Fred Coke said this, Do not 990 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:37,279 Speaker 1: cooperate voluntarily. Instead resist wherever and to whatever extent you 991 00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:41,120 Speaker 1: legally can, and do so in the name of justice. 992 00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:46,319 Speaker 1: I love this. This is insane. Yeah, Like that's why 993 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,960 Speaker 1: I'm making like the Star Wars comparisons. He views himself 994 00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,200 Speaker 1: as like a rebel fighting this evil empire, but the 995 00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,800 Speaker 1: evil empires being like you should pay for old people 996 00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:59,680 Speaker 1: to have health, and he's like, you spilled too much 997 00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:01,680 Speaker 1: poison s into the water. You have to pay for that. 998 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,839 Speaker 1: He shouldn't have been living in Corpus Christy. Why can't 999 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,759 Speaker 1: they be in the Hampton's I don't put there. I 1000 00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:10,840 Speaker 1: wish I had like a neck vein that would just pop. 1001 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,239 Speaker 1: It is hard to imagine any of the things that 1002 00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,600 Speaker 1: like he's written that, like when I because I've I 1003 00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:20,520 Speaker 1: read a couple of articles Charles Cooke read and it's 1004 00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,160 Speaker 1: hard to imagine him not screaming them to you, like 1005 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,600 Speaker 1: that's that. That's always the tenor at which he writes. 1006 00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:30,480 Speaker 1: It's always like everything will be nationalized and the government 1007 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,680 Speaker 1: will destroy you know, private innovation whatnot if we don't resist. 1008 00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,439 Speaker 1: And he does use that like resist language a lot. 1009 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:42,799 Speaker 1: He's described in Dark Money as almost being being a 1010 00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:47,799 Speaker 1: like a Linen Marks sort of theorist, where he has 1011 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,400 Speaker 1: these very strict ideas on sort of the way societies 1012 00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,680 Speaker 1: evolve and the way things happen in history. Um, but 1013 00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,279 Speaker 1: rather than sort of applying it within the context of 1014 00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, obviously like communet theory or whatnot, he has 1015 00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,319 Speaker 1: his own sort of like far right libertarian theory. But 1016 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:08,560 Speaker 1: it is a very yeah, yeah, he's he's again, it's 1017 00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,360 Speaker 1: not about denying these regular like refusing to complay with 1018 00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,799 Speaker 1: these regulations is not about uh money to him, It's 1019 00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:20,239 Speaker 1: about the principle. Yeah, it's always about the principle. Yeah. Yeah, 1020 00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,080 Speaker 1: it's he's willing to spend more money to stick a 1021 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,359 Speaker 1: finger at the gun, just resist at all costs. Did 1022 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:32,000 Speaker 1: I get it, man? Yeah? Do you. I don't get 1023 00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,719 Speaker 1: inheriting hundreds of millions of dollars and not just being like, 1024 00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,600 Speaker 1: oh sweet, I lucked out. I'm just gonna have fun. 1025 00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:39,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I get wanting to be smart with your 1026 00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:42,239 Speaker 1: money and ensuring it, and I wish I had more 1027 00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:48,200 Speaker 1: of a monetary education or a financial education. But to 1028 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:52,319 Speaker 1: the point where you're just digging over and forgetting the 1029 00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:56,920 Speaker 1: human experience or being so devoid. Is he's almost like 1030 00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:00,359 Speaker 1: a serial killer. You know, they have no to sort 1031 00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,239 Speaker 1: of like compared that mental state, except he's got my 1032 00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,400 Speaker 1: I mean, he's killing people. Maybe some of it inadvertently, 1033 00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:10,360 Speaker 1: but definitely through Yeah, I mean he might be. I 1034 00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,279 Speaker 1: don't know. Like I always try to hesitate from like 1035 00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,400 Speaker 1: diagnosing people and stuff. But it is worth noting that 1036 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,880 Speaker 1: there are there is scientific research that suggests access to 1037 00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:23,960 Speaker 1: wealth reduces empathy. Say that to Bruce Wayne, Well, you 1038 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,040 Speaker 1: know he was a rich dude and guess what he 1039 00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:28,279 Speaker 1: turned out to be Batman? Well, yeah, but Batman just 1040 00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:31,759 Speaker 1: beats up poor people. No, Batman takes care of the poor. 1041 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:39,400 Speaker 1: And Wayne, industries really looks out for people, don't you 1042 00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,960 Speaker 1: speak industries? You're right? And I do make a Batman 1043 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,000 Speaker 1: reference later that's coming up. We have a lot more 1044 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,440 Speaker 1: coke to talk about. We have so much coke to 1045 00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:52,160 Speaker 1: talk about that where there's going to be another two. 1046 00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,040 Speaker 1: I need a break. Yeah, you need to need to 1047 00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,919 Speaker 1: take a chill pill, have a nice cup of cup 1048 00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,799 Speaker 1: of Doritos, and uh I love Derrito soup. We all 1049 00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,920 Speaker 1: love Doritos soup. Between you and me. Sometimes I'll boil 1050 00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,880 Speaker 1: water and throw in a bunch of nacho cheese Dorrito's 1051 00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,239 Speaker 1: flavor chips and let all that flavor, you know, get 1052 00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:12,839 Speaker 1: off the chip, and then this chip dissolves and then 1053 00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,320 Speaker 1: I eat it like a soup. Now that sounds lovely. 1054 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:17,680 Speaker 1: And you know what I dip in that soup, Dorito's. 1055 00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:21,239 Speaker 1: You know what I have actually done is taken Doritos 1056 00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,360 Speaker 1: and made Mega's with them. It's pretty damn good. Actually, 1057 00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:29,440 Speaker 1: copyright there, I mean Dorito's out a copy right that. 1058 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:33,120 Speaker 1: That's another free thing I'm offering you Doritos, Derito's megas. 1059 00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:38,200 Speaker 1: You know it's not free these ads, we're not breaking 1060 00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:45,600 Speaker 1: into three part one. I'm so excited to break into ads. 1061 00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:47,719 Speaker 1: In part two, we're going to be talking about the 1062 00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,600 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty election where Charles's brother David ran for Vice 1063 00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,840 Speaker 1: President of the United States. We will be talking about 1064 00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:58,160 Speaker 1: the Koke brothers establishment of an empire of think tanks 1065 00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:01,600 Speaker 1: and educational institutions, and we will of course talk about 1066 00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:05,479 Speaker 1: more people that they're flighting of regulations got killed. Uh 1067 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,239 Speaker 1: So all of that and more in part two. But 1068 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,480 Speaker 1: first you want to plug some plug doubles like ads, Well, 1069 00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,719 Speaker 1: your ads, ads for your thing where people can find 1070 00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,960 Speaker 1: you on the Interwell, I'm so excited for all those ads. 1071 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,560 Speaker 1: You're really wanting to support the show. Um, you can 1072 00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,719 Speaker 1: find me on the internet. I'm in a movie on Netflix. 1073 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:29,480 Speaker 1: Called the fields um at E L S with some 1074 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,800 Speaker 1: really fun folks and you can find me on Instagram 1075 00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:36,120 Speaker 1: Twitter at E V E R M A I N 1076 00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:37,880 Speaker 1: A R D. Yeah. I do a lot of shows 1077 00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:41,439 Speaker 1: around town and I have a lot of fun awesome. Well. 1078 00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,000 Speaker 1: You can find us on the internet at behind the 1079 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,320 Speaker 1: Bastards dot com. All of the many many sources, including 1080 00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,160 Speaker 1: some writings of Charles Coke that we're sources for this episode, 1081 00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,319 Speaker 1: will be up there. We'll find some pictures too. You 1082 00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,399 Speaker 1: can also find us on social media at at Bastards pod. 1083 00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,959 Speaker 1: You can find me at at I right okay uh 1084 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:03,640 Speaker 1: and yeah, we will be back on Thursday talking more coke. 1085 00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:08,239 Speaker 1: So get coked out with us later this week. M 1086 00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:17,040 Speaker 1: h h h m hm