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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece in the last hours. A

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Speaker 1: Maryland woman suspected for years of murdering her two little

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Speaker 1: children gets a major break in court. A judge, in

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Speaker 1: his wisdom has ruled Catherine Hoggle will not stand trial

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Speaker 1: in the murders of two little children, Jacob and Sarah

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Speaker 1: disappear from Montgomery County just two and three years old,

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Speaker 1: and they have never been seen. They were caught on

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Speaker 1: surveillance camera at a Chick fil A just before they

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Speaker 1: go missing with mommy well. Over the last eight years,

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Speaker 1: Hoggle has insisted she's mentally incompetent to stand trial, although

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Speaker 1: police say not incompetent at all, she simply refused to cooperate.

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Speaker 1: Prosecutors also say that she has faked the extent of

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Speaker 1: her mental illness. Can you believe this when someone can

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Speaker 1: murder two children and then be treated as a patient

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Speaker 1: to be given more rights than the two children or

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Speaker 1: the survivors around them that they have affected. It's amazing

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Speaker 1: to me. And that's the sentiment of Sarah and Jacob's father,

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Speaker 1: Troy Turner after the judge's ruling. But what happened in

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Speaker 1: the case, Why are prosecutors and myself so convinced Hoggle

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Speaker 1: murdered her children. It was just after eleven o'clock on

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Speaker 1: a Friday night that police then get a call from

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Speaker 1: a local residence in Germantown stating that Catherine hoggele the

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Speaker 1: children's mother, was spotted at Century Rock Boulevard. Immediately, police

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Speaker 1: go there and they find Catherine Hoggle, but her missing

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Speaker 1: children were nowhere with her. The children have been missing

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Speaker 1: and reported to be with their mom, Catherine Hoggle, but

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Speaker 1: then police find Catherine, where are Jacob and Sarah? Well,

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Speaker 1: many people gathered at a Chick fil A parking lot

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Speaker 1: on Saturday night were praying to find the little children

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Speaker 1: in the hopes that they would be found safe and sound.

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Speaker 1: As of right now, their disappearance still remains a mystery

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Speaker 1: because the mom insists that overwhelmed with motherhood, she gave

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Speaker 1: the children away. She gave her children away and refuses

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Speaker 1: to tell police who she gave them to. Let's start

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Speaker 1: with what we know with me Cole Case Research Institute

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Speaker 1: Director Cheryl McCollum, also with ME Crime Stories contributor Cheryl White.

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Speaker 1: First of you, Cheryl McCollum, So much focus ended up

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Speaker 1: on a local chick fil A in Maryland.

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Speaker 2: Why needs to because that's where she was last seen

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Speaker 2: on video.

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Speaker 1: The mother that's right, Catherine Hoggle was actually spotted instruveillance

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Speaker 1: video walking out of a Chick fil A very surreptitiously. Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I have looked at this video over and over.

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Speaker 1: Some people actually describe it as sneaky. What about her

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Speaker 1: demeanor made it sneaky?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean again, you know, you get dropped off,

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Speaker 2: you're going to go in, you say you just want

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Speaker 2: some of it to drink, and then you slip out

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Speaker 2: the side door and leave the children's father outside. I

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Speaker 2: mean it's very fish Oh.

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Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait, Cheryl, take it

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Speaker 1: from the beginning. Tell me about that visit to Chick

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Speaker 1: fil A and why it's so significant.

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Speaker 2: Well, she tells the child, the children's father, that she

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Speaker 2: has dropped them off at a new daycare and she

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Speaker 2: just wants to have a Chick fil A for something

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Speaker 2: to drink. He drives her there. She goes in the

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Speaker 2: front door, presumably to go to the counter, get a

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Speaker 2: coke and come back, but no, she slips out the

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Speaker 2: side door. He does not see or leaves. So after

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Speaker 2: a period of time, he goes into Chick fil A

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Speaker 2: to look for she's gone.

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Speaker 1: So this is what we know. The father is desperate

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Speaker 1: and is asking for help. He goes to the mom.

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Speaker 1: He goes to his wife, Catherine Honkell. She says, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I enrolled I didn't like the last place.

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Speaker 1: I enrolled them in a new daycare, and I took

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Speaker 1: them there, and well, let's go there. Now, can we

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Speaker 1: stop and get a drink at Chick fil A? So

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Speaker 1: he goes, sure, they stop at Chick fil A. And

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at the video right now, I can see

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Speaker 1: her in the video. She comes in, just like Cheryl

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Speaker 1: McCollum is telling me, kind of goes up to the

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Speaker 1: counter and then leaves out a side door. The husband's

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Speaker 1: just sitting outside. Now what we know is that the

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Speaker 1: father is the one who contacts police almost immediately and

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Speaker 1: reports the mother and the two children were missing. It's

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Speaker 1: interesting to me that she also, Cheryl McCollum and I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you later why this is so important, keeps her

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Speaker 1: face turned away from the surveillance video. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you notice that or not, but okay, So she

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Speaker 1: walks out of the back door of Chick fil A,

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Speaker 1: and goes to a Germantown transit center. What do we

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Speaker 1: know happens after that? Cheryl White is with me Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories contributor.

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Speaker 3: What do we know, Cheryl, Well, all we know is

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Speaker 3: that there are two tiny children missing. They've never been found. Now,

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Speaker 3: one part of the story from the Chick fil A

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Speaker 3: Nancy is that they had been driving around. According to

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Speaker 3: the children's father, they had been he and Catherine, the

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Speaker 3: children's mother, had been driving around for a very long time.

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Speaker 3: She said, oh, I can't remember where this new daycare is.

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Speaker 3: That's when she said she needed something to drink, and

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Speaker 3: they stopped at the Chick fil A. So they'd been

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Speaker 3: driving around for a while, and the father said he

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Speaker 3: was starting to get more than a little annoyed and worried.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, he told her he was

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Speaker 1: driving her to the police stakes exactly unless she told

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Speaker 1: him where is the daycare? And she's like, gosh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I just signed him up. I can't remember where it is.

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Speaker 1: Just keep going, it's in here somewhere. Can I have

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Speaker 1: a coke? That's how that whole thing played out. But

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Speaker 1: then we've got a whole another story going on. Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Institute. Police say that that

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Speaker 1: Sunday night, the mom takes the children to her mother's

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Speaker 1: house in Clarksburg, that she was going to take her

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Speaker 1: son Jacob for pizza, but that when she got back

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Speaker 1: home three hours later to the mom's house, he wasn't

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Speaker 1: with her. She told the mom Jacob was at the

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Speaker 1: playmate's house. Right, So that's a whole nother story that

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Speaker 1: she's telling. So police say Jacob was not there and

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Speaker 1: he hasn't been seen since. So which of these stories

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Speaker 1: are true? This all goes down while the dad is

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Speaker 1: out working. He has an overnight job, Cheryl, like my

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Speaker 1: dad used to have, So he's at work when the

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Speaker 1: mom says this happened, So what about that story. We've

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Speaker 1: got the story that she dropped them at a new daycare,

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Speaker 1: and then we've got this story that police seemed to

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Speaker 1: be confirming that Hoggle took the two babies to her

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Speaker 1: mom's house in Clarksburg, says she's taken Jacob out for

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Speaker 1: a pizza, comes back without him about three hours later

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Speaker 1: and says, oh, we stayed at the friend's house. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what do we know about that? Which of these if

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Speaker 1: either are true.

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Speaker 2: Well, we don't know, and that's what's happening. You're having

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Speaker 2: to build a case on why. And that's why this

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Speaker 2: is so difficult. She's not telling the truth ever, So

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Speaker 2: you don't know where Jacob is, you don't know the friends,

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Speaker 2: you don't know whether.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, aren't police saying this. Aren't police stating

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Speaker 1: that she took the children to her mom's house. Is

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Speaker 1: that much true?

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Speaker 2: I believe that much is true, But I'm saying where

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Speaker 2: Jacob went from there, we don't know. We don't know

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Speaker 2: what friends, we don't know where she left him.

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Speaker 1: And then that's the next day on Monday, the dad's

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Speaker 1: been working on and he's like, where are the children?

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Speaker 1: And she says, oh, I put them in a new daycare.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, if she's telling any of the truth,

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Speaker 1: they did go for pizza, there was a playmate, and

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Speaker 1: she took them to daycare the next morning. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that's true. I don't think any of that's true.

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Speaker 2: But you know what well as I do. When you

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Speaker 2: have children and their fathers involved, y'all have long discussions

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Speaker 2: about daycare. That's not a quick switch. You investigate the daycare,

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Speaker 2: you make sure, it's a good place, the safe place,

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Speaker 2: and you damn well know where the place is when

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Speaker 2: you leave your child there.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I agree, That's why I don't think any of

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Speaker 1: this is true. Plus I'm going back to our last

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Speaker 1: known signing. I mean the whole daycare. That's a pile

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Speaker 1: of bs correct, all right, the BSA meter is like

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Speaker 1: shrieking in my head. So that never happened, just for

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Speaker 1: the reasons you just said. So I'm already back to

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Speaker 1: what I know to be true. Police are telling me

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Speaker 1: she was spotted at her mother's house with the children

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Speaker 1: the night before, or at least one of them, and

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Speaker 1: that would have been on Sunday night. The dad is

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Speaker 1: at work, he works nights. She says, she's taken in

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Speaker 1: for pizza. He's never seen alive again. So my timeline,

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Speaker 1: which is you know where I always start, Cheryl, is

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Speaker 1: Sunday night. That's they're not mentioning the little girl going,

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Speaker 1: but that is when in my mind, that's when the

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Speaker 1: children are either sold or given away or worse. Now,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, we know the next day, the dad is

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Speaker 1: at the Chick fil A and she leaves. What is

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Speaker 1: her story about giving her children away.

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Speaker 2: She's told everybody that she gave them away, but she

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Speaker 2: refused to say who she gave them to.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl White Crime story is contributor. She is insisting that

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Speaker 1: she gave the children away and quote they are safe,

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Speaker 1: but she refuses to reveal where they are. Why. What

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Speaker 1: reason do we speculate or what reason that she gives

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Speaker 1: she gave the two babies away.

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Speaker 3: Well, some are saying that there's trouble in the relationship

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Speaker 3: between the father and Catherine, the husband and wife. There

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Speaker 3: one thing we haven't talked about is the third child.

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Speaker 3: So my question is why the two younger children and

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Speaker 3: not the older child?

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Speaker 1: Right, there is a third child. That child is safe

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Speaker 1: and sound. We also have statements by the father. The

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Speaker 1: father tells police that while he's at work on Sunday afternoon,

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Speaker 1: Hoggle's own father dries them to the grandmother's house in Gaithersburg.

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Speaker 1: Hoggle then borrows her father's car, it's a great twenty

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Speaker 1: twelve Nissan Rogue, and tells her parents she's taking Jacob

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Speaker 1: to get pizza. So now I'm confirming again they're alive

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Speaker 1: and well. On Sunday, Sunday afternoon, the father and the

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Speaker 1: grandfather and the grandmother places them alive. Okay, so she

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Speaker 1: disappears in the dad's Nissan rogue. She returns three hours later,

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Speaker 1: without the son or without food. Claims she dropped the

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Speaker 1: baby the playmate's house and then came back went back

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Speaker 1: to her home with her daughter. That's the last time

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Speaker 1: either of them have been seen alive. Now, let me

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Speaker 1: ask you this, Cheryl McCollum, Where the children ever spotted

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Speaker 1: on any surveillance video at a pizza place or anywhere.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 1: Never tell me about the search that ensued Cheryl White.

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Speaker 3: Well, it was a four day search, and it was

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Speaker 3: one of those intensive searches. You have babies missing, and

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Speaker 3: so they just mobilized the entire community. It's police, it's family,

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Speaker 3: it's friends, it's total strangers that are searching everywhere, not

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Speaker 3: only for the children, but for Catherine as well, the

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Speaker 3: mother too. She's missing at this point as well.

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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, Please join us now on

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Speaker 1: Fox Nation for a brand new investigation, Parallels of Evil

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Speaker 1: the Bundy and Idaho killings. In this gripping special investigation,

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Speaker 1: we bring together an incredible panel of guests who analyze

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Speaker 1: disturbing similarities of evil between these horrible crimes. We speak

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Speaker 1: with two female Ted Bundy survivors, Karen Pryor and Cheryl Thomas,

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Speaker 1: who described their life before and after they were victims

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Speaker 1: of Ted Bundy. We also speak with the renowned private

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Speaker 1: investigator Bill Warner who worked in the cases, and Ted

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Speaker 1: Bundy's defense attorney, John Henry Brown. We traveled to Moscow, Idaho,

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Speaker 1: to speak with Washington State University students and interview neighbors

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Speaker 1: of Brian Coburger. One neighbor shares exclusive insights about the

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Speaker 1: suspect in the Idaho killings, Brian Coberger. Don't miss Parallels

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Speaker 1: of Evil, the Bundan and I Hope Killings, streaming now

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Speaker 1: exclusively on Fox Nation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, I

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Speaker 1: am convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt that Catherine

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Speaker 1: Hoggele murdered Sarah and Jacob, two little children just two

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Speaker 1: and three years old. They were last seen with her.

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Speaker 1: And then she comes up with all sorts of different

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Speaker 1: explanations about what happened to the children and begins a

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Speaker 1: quote mental illness stint. Here's the problem under Marylyn law

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Speaker 1: if Hoggle was not found competent by that that Thursday,

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Speaker 1: these statute of limitations of five years since the children

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Speaker 1: were murdered would be passed and the charges have to

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Speaker 1: be dropped. Hoggle was first found in competent back in

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Speaker 1: December twenty seventeen. An appeals court in their Ivory Tower

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Speaker 1: ruled that prosecutors had until December to try the case.

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Speaker 1: In the last days, a judge has dropped the charges.

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Speaker 1: Will we ever know the truth about what happened to

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Speaker 1: Sarah and Jacob? These are the facts we know now.

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Speaker 1: In a bizarre twist of the law, murder charges against

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Speaker 1: a mom, Catherine Hoggele have been dropped. What a miscarriage

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Speaker 1: of justice? Why are prosecutors so convinced as am I

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Speaker 1: she murdered her children? Listen, I remember very well when

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Speaker 1: these two go missing, and for the life of me,

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Speaker 1: I could not understand why the mother, Catherine Hogele, would

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Speaker 1: not divulge where her children were. Now shrinks will tell

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Speaker 1: you that she was having trouble with her marriage and

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Speaker 1: was overwhelmed with three children. She says she gave them away,

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Speaker 1: gave them away and refuses to state where they went.

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Speaker 1: Why Why would she refuse to state? Could it be

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Speaker 1: because she hates her husband? So much she doesn't want

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Speaker 1: him to have them. Is she afraid she's going to

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Speaker 1: be indicted for neglect or giving away her children? Let's

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Speaker 1: take a careful look at her behavior. She is the

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Speaker 1: key to the location of these children. With me, Cheryl White,

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories contributor and Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute, Cheryl, let's look at her mommy's behavior

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Speaker 1: before and after the children's disappear.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Nancy pre and post behavior are going to be

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Speaker 2: key in zero and her mindset here. So how was

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Speaker 2: she before the Sunday night Pete said her mother's the

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Speaker 2: things that she said, the things that she did. Was

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Speaker 2: her focus on Jacob? Was she angry at him? Was

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Speaker 2: she angry at their father? Something was going on that

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Speaker 2: now people will be able to pick up and say,

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Speaker 2: I remember this. The post behavior, her wondering around, saying

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Speaker 2: that she gave them away. She hasn't called the police,

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Speaker 2: she wasn't worried about them, she hasn't organized searches. All

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Speaker 2: of that's going to be imperative and I hate to

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Speaker 2: tell you it rings of Casey Anthony.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I was thinking the same thing. I didn't even

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Speaker 1: want to say the words taught Mom. How do you

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Speaker 1: compare Hoggle Catherine Hoggle to taught Mom Casey Anthony, who

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Speaker 1: murdered I believe murdered her little girl, Kelly. What about it,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum.

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Speaker 2: Well, here you are. You have her, you know, going

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Speaker 2: with her own parents, ride in the car, having some fun.

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Speaker 2: Let's go get pizza. That sounds like a great, normal,

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Speaker 2: ill evening. Next thing, you know, Oh, I gave them away.

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Speaker 1: Gave them away?

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 1: Just like top Mom, Casey Anthony blames Dania Gonzalez the

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Speaker 1: pretend nanny's so freaky about that?

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Speaker 2: Correct?

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Speaker 1: Is she had been she Top Mom had been looking

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Speaker 1: at an apartment uh on a Sawgrass on Sawgrass Road,

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Speaker 1: I believe it was. And police go to that apartment

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Speaker 1: to check out her story, and Dania Gonzalez had actually

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Speaker 1: been there before Top Mom and signed in, signed in

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Speaker 1: that she was going to look at a model apartment.

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Speaker 1: So top Mom goes there, sees the name that's where

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Speaker 1: Zanaighta Gonzales came from. Correct, And it turned out to

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Speaker 1: be a real person whose name was ruined by her

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Speaker 1: connection to Top Mom Casey Anthony and the disappearance of

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Speaker 1: she was forever connected.

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Speaker 2: To that, and it also wasted a whole lot of time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they had just signs an eye to Gonzalez, who

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Speaker 1: had never met Casey Anthony in her life. So here

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Speaker 1: we've got the same thing as Cheryl McCollums pointing out

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Speaker 1: a fabricated story and a refusal to divulge where the

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Speaker 1: children really are. Now, by this time, there was a search.

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Speaker 1: After Katherine Hoggle leaves the Chick fil A. There is

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Speaker 1: a man hunt or should I say a woman hunt

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Speaker 1: for Catherine Hoggle, who to this day, to this moment

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Speaker 1: that you're hearing us, it's still the key to the case.

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Speaker 1: We still don't have the children. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: the guy that fortuitously spots Katherine Hoggle. Listen.

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Speaker 5: It was a little after eleven fifteen in the evening.

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Speaker 6: Nicholas Stewart knew there was something unusual about the woman

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Speaker 6: wondering about the parking lot of his germ Entailed complex

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Speaker 6: as he went to take out the trash, and he

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Speaker 6: couldn't put his finger on it at first.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I see her walking towards me. I didn't

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Speaker 7: think anything. Maybe it was just a resident. I see

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Speaker 7: her pacing back and forth.

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Speaker 6: But the woman's behavior grows more unusual, especially, he says,

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Speaker 6: as she went into a breezeway in the complex. He says,

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Speaker 6: she seemed lost and confused.

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Speaker 5: She went like this. She saw me.

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Speaker 7: She went like this, and then I turned around, and

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Speaker 7: then I see her come out and she looked like this,

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Speaker 7: and then walked here.

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Speaker 5: And then just stopped.

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Speaker 6: He decided to keep an eye on her, and they

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Speaker 6: actually exchanged words or something.

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Speaker 7: Told me to just keep looking, and she asked me

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Speaker 7: for the time. I said, I do not have the time.

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Speaker 7: My phone was actually dead at the time, and she said,

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Speaker 7: thank you, my phone's dead too.

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Speaker 6: Stuart says he ran to his apartment, looked at the

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Speaker 6: flyer again and realized it was indeed Catherine Hoggell. The

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Speaker 6: woman lasted a scene earlier in the week and caught

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Speaker 6: on camera in surveillance footage.

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Speaker 7: I actually watched one of the surveillance videos of her

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Speaker 7: ten minutes before I spotted lady.

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Speaker 6: Stewart says he ran to a nearby police station to

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Speaker 6: get help, and they got to the scene Century Boulevard

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Speaker 6: and Crystal Rock driving took Hoggle into custody.

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Speaker 1: So you know, Cheryl White, Cheryl McCollum is just dumb

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Speaker 1: luck really, because this guy had just looked at a

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Speaker 1: flyer that was posted I believe above hit the mailboxes

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Speaker 1: at this apartment complex or this this location, this structure.

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Speaker 1: He sees the flyer of the two children and Catherine Hoggle.

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Speaker 1: Then he less than a minute passes. He sees Hoggle,

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Speaker 1: and he says, she was, you know, acting covertly, just

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Speaker 1: like you said she did. And the chick fil a

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. He goes up to her. They have a conversation.

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Speaker 1: He says, well, I can't use my phone. It's dead.

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Speaker 1: She goes, oh, mine's dead too. She seemed absolutely perfectly normal,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl White, completely normal. One thing missing, make that too,

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Speaker 1: the children Cheryl White.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the childrenners are still missing then and now, and

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Speaker 3: all she'll say is that they are safe and that

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Speaker 3: they're with someone else. And there was a chase, a

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Speaker 3: short chase before police could apprehend her, which I find

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Speaker 3: interesting that she ran.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, Cheryl McCollum. When your children are missing, as Cheryl

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Speaker 1: White says, the guy immediately calls police the number on

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Speaker 1: the flyer. Police show up. A chase ensues. If my

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Speaker 1: children are missing, I'm laying on the front steps of

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Speaker 1: the police station. I'm laying there screaming. She runs from police, Cheryl.

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Speaker 1: She runs from police, and when they get her, she

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Speaker 1: has snatched down one of the flyers that had been posted.

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Speaker 1: She had taken it down so nobody could see it,

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Speaker 1: and it was in her hand, Cheryl when cops get

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Speaker 1: her after she runs.

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Speaker 2: Cheryl wanted away. She doesn't want the children fail, she

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Speaker 2: doesn't want to be captured herself, and again, holding that

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Speaker 2: fire in her hands tells you she didn't want anybody

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Speaker 2: else to find them either.

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Speaker 1: This is where the search for the babies takes a

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Speaker 1: very unusual turn. Of course, Hoggle is taken into custody

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Speaker 1: and questioned about the location and for children. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to what her husband says regarding the children's disappearance.

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Speaker 8: I want to thank all of you in the community

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Speaker 8: and in the media for all your support you have

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Speaker 8: shown me, myself, Sarah and Jacob, my family throughout the

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Speaker 8: entire process. As I'm sure you understand, it's been a

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Speaker 8: very emotional time for myself and others who love my

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Speaker 8: family and my children. I've just decided to go ahead

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Speaker 8: and read a prepared statement and then not take questions today,

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Speaker 8: Catherine Hogle has murdered my children, and I hope Sarah and.

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Speaker 5: Jacob get the justice they deserve.

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Speaker 8: I have held out hope that something else may have happened,

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Speaker 8: as I think that any parent under these circumstances would,

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Speaker 8: But it has always been a faint hope, and I

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Speaker 8: know now with the passage of time, that Catherine killed

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Speaker 8: my babies.

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Speaker 5: From the very beginning.

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Speaker 8: Of this process three years ago, the Montgomery County Police

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Speaker 8: Department in the State's Tourney's Office have been very consistent

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Speaker 8: in their theory on this case. I know that they

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Speaker 8: are right, and I fully support the charges handed down

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Speaker 8: here today. I also knew they were I knew there

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Speaker 8: was a good chance that we're right from the beginning.

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Speaker 8: In addition to the investigation by the local police with

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Speaker 8: the support of the family of family and friends, I've

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Speaker 8: had my own professional private investigators study of the facts.

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Speaker 8: And this isn't part of the riot part. But in

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Speaker 8: the beginning they came in with an open mind. After investigating,

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Speaker 8: they came to the same conclusion as the State's terms officer,

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Speaker 8: and the police actually hired two or three of them,

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Speaker 8: kind of like getting the second opinion from a doctor.

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Speaker 8: And they all came back to Saint. Everyone who has

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Speaker 8: reviewed this agrees that Catherine murdered Sarah and Jacob.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. In a bizarre twist of

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Speaker 1: the law, murder charges against a mom, Catherine Hoggle have

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Speaker 1: been dropped. What a miscarriage of justice? Why are prosecutors

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Speaker 1: so convinced as am I she murdered her children?

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Speaker 2: Listen?

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, Director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Cheryl McCollum.

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Speaker 1: Right after she is brought into by police and she

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Speaker 1: is questioned under oath by the judge about where are

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Speaker 1: your children? And she still refuses to say. The husband

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Speaker 1: says that she's acting that. She says she wants to

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Speaker 1: be found in competence so she can't be charged with

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Speaker 1: giving away her children. Cheryl McCollum.

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Speaker 2: Now that I think we're getting somewhere because Nancy, she's

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Speaker 2: been play acting the whole time. She pretended to take

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Speaker 2: Jacob for pizza, she pretended they read a new school.

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Speaker 2: She pretended to go buy a coat. That's what she's

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Speaker 2: good at. And when they get close to her, she

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Speaker 2: tries to escape in some way. She hides her faith,

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Speaker 2: She hides her identity, she runs from police.

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Speaker 1: Catherine Hoggele, the mother of the two missing children, was

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Speaker 1: located in Germantown there in Maryland and immediately taken into

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Speaker 1: custody after she leaves them on a brief footschase. When

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Speaker 1: they get her, Mommy is clutching a flyer that has

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Speaker 1: been posted, tearing it down so nobody else can see

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Speaker 1: the children or the tip line number. She refuses to

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Speaker 1: say what happened to the children. At this moment, police

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Speaker 1: still searching for the two children, Sarah and Jacob. Then

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Speaker 1: they give a statement they are extremely concerned for the

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Speaker 1: children's welfare. She has taken us all down the garden path.

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Speaker 1: Chryl McCollum. Just hours after she slips out the back

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Speaker 1: door of a Chick fil A, she boards a county

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Speaker 1: bus near that restaurant, goes down Route one point eighteen

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Speaker 1: Germantown Road between the Interstate two seventy and goes to

433
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: the Germantown Commons shopping Center. She takes that bus after

434
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: giving the husband a slip at Chick fil A. She

435
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: rides the bus to the transit center I told you

436
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: about to Lake Forest Mall and gets off. She sided

437
00:27:54,320 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: there on videotape, and she is seen going in and

438
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 1: out of various locations in that shopping mall. Cheryl McCollum.

439
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: Then police go there. They go there to retrace her steps,

440
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: hoping to find a trace of the children. Instead, they

441
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: found the contents of her pocket book thrown in a

442
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: bathroom in the building. What does that mean, Cheryl? What's

443
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: she trying to get rid.

444
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 2: Of her identity? Who she is? So when somebody catches her,

445
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 2: even if it's in another town or city, she can

446
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 2: make up a name and a date of birth, It's

447
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 2: not going to be her. She's not going to exist anymore.

448
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 2: You know.

449
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: This plot seemingly gets more and more intricate. So we

450
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: have her, let's retrace it, Cheryl and Cheryl, Cheryl White

451
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: and Cheryl McCollum. We have her with the children alive

452
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: at her mother's house. We have her father, the children's grandfather,

453
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: giving her his car. She puts Jacob in the car,

454
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: claiming they're going for pizza, coming back without them three

455
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: hours later, stay that he stayed with his friend. She

456
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: takes the baby away, claiming they're going home. The husband's

457
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: at the night shift. Whoever she gave baby Jacob to

458
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: that night or whatever she did with him. She takes

459
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: the little girl. She leaves with the little girl. The

460
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: little girl has never seen alive again. The dad gets

461
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: home from work. Where are the children? Oh, I took

462
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: them to a new daycare. Nobody's seen the children since

463
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: the night before Sunday night. They start looking for the daycare,

464
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: can't find it. She goes into Chick fil A she

465
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: wants to coke. She slips out the side. She then

466
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: eludes her husband who's sitting in the parking lot, takes

467
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: a bus, gets away from him, and goes to a

468
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: shopping center. She goes in and out of several locations.

469
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: Police find out about it. They go rey retrace her steps.

470
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: They don't find her. They find her pocketbook has been emptied.

471
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: Why flyers Over ten thousand flyers go up all over town.

472
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: A guy is looking at the flyer over a mailbox,

473
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: then turns around to see Katherine Hockle. She has a

474
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: perfectly normal saying conversation with them. His girlfriend immediately calls police.

475
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: They come. She leads them on a brief but fast

476
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: paced footchase. When they get her, she is torn down.

477
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: The flyer of the children with the tip line, She's

478
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: taken to police headquarters, She's questioned in court, she refuses

479
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: to say where the children are, and the husband insists

480
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: she's acting. Listen to what he says one more time.

481
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 8: Katherine Hogoul has murdered my children, and I hope Sarah

482
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 8: and Jacob get the justice they deserve. I have held

483
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 8: out hope that something else may have happened, as I

484
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 8: think that any under the circumstances would, But it has

485
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 8: always been a faint hope. And I know now with

486
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 8: the passage of time, that Catherine killed my babysit.

487
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: So where is Jacob? Where is Sarah? Tipline three zero

488
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: one two seven, nine, eight thousand. Then and another twist,

489
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: Cheryl White, Crime Story's contributor. She now claims she's paranoid schizophrenic. Okay,

490
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: her husband says she's acting. The children are still missing.

491
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: When did that come about? So now we see a

492
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: mental defect. I mean she told her husband she wants

493
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: to be found incompetent so she can't be charged or

494
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: go to jail. What do we know about her claims

495
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: of paranoise gizophrenia?

496
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 3: Cheryl White, Well, she has a history of mental issues.

497
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 3: Here's something I find extremely odd is that shortly after

498
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 3: she was taken into custody, she told her family members

499
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 3: that she would take police to her children, but she

500
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 3: had to do it personally. So she went to court

501
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 3: then to get a judge's okay that she could take

502
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 3: them to the children. But that's not what ended up happening. Well,

503
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 3: when she got to court, her attorneys said Hoggle was

504
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 3: in no metal condition to make the claim to take

505
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 3: them on the journey to the children, and that in fact,

506
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 3: she did not want to help, and that her condition

507
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 3: was so deteriorated she should not even be interrogated.

508
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: Wow, that's convenient, Cheryl McCollum. So she says, okay, okay,

509
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: I'm tired of jail. Let me out and I will

510
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: take you to the children. You know what, do you

511
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: remember that wild goose chase that top mom Casey Anthony

512
00:32:54,680 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: led police on in the search for Zonaida Gonzalez. They

513
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: went all over town. They went to slablegress apartments. She

514
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: claims she worked at Universal Man. She had it down.

515
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: She even got to the security entrance and told them

516
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: that she worked there, and they're like, wow, we can't

517
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: find you on the employee list. And she goes yeah,

518
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: well I did work here. Hey, you can call my

519
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: co employees. And she gave names and phone numbers extensions,

520
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: names of people that worked at Universal, and the security

521
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: was calling them, and so police are onto. So they

522
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: take her in and they get all the way up

523
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: to the door and they're going into Universal, and she says, okay, ah,

524
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: you got me, like it's some kind of a game.

525
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: I don't really work at Universal anymore. And all those

526
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: times she had been sitting on her parents' sofa, eating

527
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: their food out of their fridge and letting them take

528
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: care of the baby, claiming she worked at Universal. She

529
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: would even put on a Universal outfit with tags, old

530
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: ID tags and leave to go lay up at her

531
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: boyfriend's apartment. So it's such a charade. And Cheryl McCollum,

532
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 1: it sounds like the same thing with Catherine Hoggle.

533
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Catherine's overplaying her hand a little bit,

534
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 2: because you know Nancy better than me. Schizophrenic doesn't mean

535
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 2: you don't go to jail. The only reason you're going

536
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 2: to stay out of jail is if you can demonstrate

537
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 2: you don't know right from wrong. Well, she's already to

538
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: me proven beautifully she knows what she's done is wrong again,

539
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: from trying to hide her face, to run in from

540
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 2: the police, to not want to involve the police, and

541
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 2: not calling number one one to TAKEHI down the poster.

542
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 2: She knows so now this is her latest game.

543
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: Catherine Hoggle, aged thirty, indicted on two counts a first

544
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: degree murder, accused of killing her two year old son

545
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: and her three year old daughter. I want to go

546
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: to you, Cheryl McCollum. Never been found. The people she

547
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: allegedly gave her children to have never been found. How

548
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: do we know they weren't sold. How do we know

549
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: she didn't just give them away? There's nobody. How is

550
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: she charged with murder Cheryl?

551
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 2: Well, it's a nobody homicide case, Nancy. And what we

552
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: do know is at this point years have gone by,

553
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 2: the children would have started school. Whoever she gave the

554
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 2: children too would have had to take them to school,

555
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 2: to the doctor, other places. At this point, they know

556
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 2: a manhunt has been going over to the children. This couple,

557
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 2: if they existed, would have come forward in some ways.

558
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 2: They haven't done anything wrong, but they're not raising to

559
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 2: children with you know, no paperwork, no birth certificate or

560
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 2: anything like that. It's not true. So again common sense

561
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 2: tells us by her actions trying to escape all the time,

562
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 2: trying to hide her any trying to hide out in

563
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: a mental institution, that she has done something horrible with

564
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 2: these two children.

565
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: As of right now, these two children have been deemed

566
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: murder victims. Do we know if any evidence was found,

567
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 1: such as blood, the clothing, a shallow grave, anything to

568
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 1: suggest that they are dead, Sheryl White.

569
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 3: Well, what I do know is that state's attorney, John

570
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 3: McCarthy says, we would never have filed the charges indicted

571
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 3: her on two murder charges if we didn't feel we

572
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 3: have a case.

573
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: Take a listen to what the state attorney in Montgomery

574
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 1: County has to say.

575
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 4: Under Maryland law, an individual charged with only misdemeanors can

576
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 4: only be hospitalized and detained in a formal hospital slash

577
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 4: prison setting for a maximum period of three years. She

578
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 4: has been incarcerata in that facility, essentially receiving evaluations on

579
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 4: a regular basis for her competency to stand trial over

580
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 4: the last three years.

581
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 5: The deadline for those three years came today.

582
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 4: The court today would have had to dismiss the charges

583
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 4: against her, and we would have had to release Miss

584
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 4: Hoggle as a matter of law, because she could not

585
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:31,320
Speaker 4: be held any longer on those misdemeanors. Therefore, we sought

586
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 4: an indictment from the grand jury yesterday, charging her with

587
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 4: the two counts of murder.

588
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 5: Again, there was no advantage to moving forward.

589
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 4: I will tell you that as long and I think

590
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 4: I've publicly said this before, as long as there's not

591
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 4: an indictment, you are allowed to continue to use a

592
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 4: grand jury for the purposes of a criminal investigation. Once

593
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 4: you indict a case, you lose that option, you lose

594
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 4: that right.

595
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 5: That was an investigative tool that we had available to us.

596
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 4: It did not make any sense if she remained incompetent

597
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 4: to lose that tool well because of the law that

598
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 4: would have dictated she would become free without any ability

599
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 4: for us to check on her whereabouts or her medical station.

600
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 4: It became incumbent on us to take the additional step

601
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 4: to seek the indictment for the two counts of murder

602
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 4: that we did yesterday. The law's now changed in terms

603
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 4: of how long we can hold her for the purposes

604
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 4: of the evaluation. Miss Hogel can now be held five

605
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 4: years now charge with the felony for the purposes of

606
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 4: the doctors to attempt to restore who to competency. Competency

607
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 4: just basically means you have to have a basic understanding

608
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 4: of the nature of the charges. Again, so you have

609
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,720
Speaker 4: to be able to assist your attorney in defending yourself.

610
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 4: This has nothing to do with her guilt or in

611
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 4: a sense. I am tremendously frustrated. And I've said this

612
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 4: in court before. Am I frustrated that we are here

613
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 4: three years into this and she's not been restored to competency.

614
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I am Why am I frustrated?

615
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 4: Well, she's been Look, this is a woman who had

616
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 4: a and again I'm talking about things that are in

617
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 4: the public record. This was a young woman who'd had

618
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 4: prior hospitalizations. She had been identified with psychiatric issues prior

619
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:15,479
Speaker 4: to the disappearance of her kids.

620
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 5: She had been in various hospitals.

621
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 4: She had been restored to competency before through psychotropic medications

622
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 4: and reintroduced back into the community. I had every hope

623
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 4: when she went to Perkins three years ago that we

624
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 4: would have that same thing occur.

625
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 5: She would fall into the care of psychiatrists.

626
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,919
Speaker 4: They would determine what her need was and they would

627
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 4: begin through a regiment of medications to restore competency that

628
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 4: would allow us to move forward. So I am tremendously frustrated,

629
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 4: as I can tell you. Look, I'm sure any member

630
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 4: of the family on either side of this will tell

631
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 4: you above all, they are tremendously frustrated. They knew the

632
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 4: psychiatric history, they knew about the restoration of competency in

633
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 4: other cases, and they want to know why hasn't the

634
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 4: hospital been able to to do that.

635
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 5: It's a frustration for all of us.

636
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 4: But again, we've just taken steps legally to give them

637
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 4: additional time to do that. And I don't think we

638
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 4: had any other option but to seek the indictment we

639
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 4: saw it yesterday. It was the only way to adequately

640
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 4: I think, protect the public and protect some individual people

641
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 4: in particularly.

642
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: Back to Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research

643
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: Institute Cheryl, for the longest time, Catherine Huggle stays at

644
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: a cushy psych facility, repeatedly attempting to escape, and then

645
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,479
Speaker 1: when she's caught trying to escape, she says she wants

646
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 1: to go see her children, and she'll leave police to

647
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: her children in order to get out. What do you

648
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: make of that, Cheryl McCollum.

649
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Speaker 2: The key is eight times she is attempted to escape.

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Speaker 2: If she wanted her children to be, okay, she would

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00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 2: tell them where to go, get them and let the

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Speaker 2: children be.

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Speaker 1: So what does this say to you? Every time she

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00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: wants to get out, she says she'll lead the police

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00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 1: to her children. That doesn't sound crazy to me.

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Speaker 2: That sounds like a stunt to me. That sounds like,

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Speaker 2: if you let me out, I will do something for you.

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00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 2: That's the extortion.

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Speaker 1: Another issue to Sheryl White Crime Stories contributor is the

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Speaker 1: legal time limit the statutal limitations on the three misdemeanors

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Speaker 1: the child neglect misdemeanors that she had been charged with

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00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 1: initially we're about to give out, which means she would

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00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 1: have walked free, okay, right after they go missing. You've got, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a year or so. On the statutal limitations

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00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: on misdemeanors it is one to three years, and once

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00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: that ends and you haven't been prosecuted, you walk free,

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00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: of course, unless you filed a demand for speedy trial,

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00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: which she did not. So she's about to walk free,

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Speaker 1: and this murder charge comes down. Is that the way

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Speaker 1: it goes, Cheryl White, That's the way it goes exactly.

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Speaker 3: So time was running out, so she was indicted on

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Speaker 3: two counts of murder for the two missing children, and

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Speaker 3: now she can be held for five years under medical care.

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Speaker 3: Now that she's been indicted on the murder charges.

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Speaker 1: In the last hours, a judge, in his wisdom has

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Speaker 1: ruled Catherine Hoggle will not stand trial in the murders

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00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: of two little children, Jacob and Sarah, disappear from Montgomery

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Speaker 1: County just two and three years old, and they have

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00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: never been seen. Well, if this is the law, then

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00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,879
Speaker 1: the law is an ass Isn't it true that there

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00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: is no statute limitations on murder? Can Hoggle be recharged

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Speaker 1: and tried in the future. We wait, as just as

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Speaker 1: some faults