1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,439 Speaker 1: For confidence in your financial plan, look for a CFP professional. 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: When your financial advisor earns the CFP certification, it means 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: he or she is trained to provide ethical financial planning 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: across a holistic range of topics from retirement and investing 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: to taxes and estate planning, all in your best interest. 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: So with a CFP professional, you'll feel confident in your 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: financial plan today and tomorrow. Three letters do make a difference. 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: Visit Let's make a plan dot org to find your 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:34,599 Speaker 1: CFP professional. You know what I realized. Let's say you're 10 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: always very concerned about my year bamte consumption, but I 11 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: realized I don't drink coffee. One morning, my producer Austin 12 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: and I are in the studio getting jacked up on caffeine. 13 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: Both sound a little froggy when Austin hits me with 14 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: a surprise. The reason that I sound so bad today 15 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: is that I was up very late last night um 16 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: and go to bed until after two am because I 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: was working with Amanda to file for the death certificate. 18 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,919 Speaker 1: She texted me at midnight saying that she was starting 19 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: the process, and I was like, all right, I'm here 20 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: with you. Oh my god. It happened, and it happened, 21 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: and it's the death certificate application has been filed. I 22 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: don't want to get too hopeful yet, but what I 23 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: hope is on the death certificate. What we requested is 24 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: not just you know, the date of death and all that, 25 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: but the cause of death, which can only be released 26 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: to the next of kin. And so she'll receive it 27 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: in about three or four weeks, barring any type of complication. 28 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: Then about three or four weeks later. Okay, what day. 29 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: It's well, Austin was working with our editor, Zack. What happened? 30 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: Get close to my iPhone. He got a message. I 31 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: just got a text from Amanda. It says, hey, I 32 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: received the death certificate. It's pretty fucking shocking. Oh man, 33 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: my heart's pounding. Many we don't know what we're gonna 34 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: find out, So, uh yeah, you're staring at something. What 35 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: do you what? What's in front of your face? Right now? 36 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: I'm looking at Billy's death certificate, which I just really 37 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: am struggling to believe that we have. This is really creepy, 38 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: This is really, really, really intense. This is real, This 39 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: is really real. Certificate of death. Name of deceased William 40 00:02:51,240 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: Heightsman Police of Death, New York City, Burrow Manhattan Homicide 41 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: from Crimetown. I'm io till it right, and this is 42 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: the ballad of Billy Balls. It was a drug deal 43 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: gone bad, That's what I had heard. Any impression of 44 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: who had shot him undercutter cop. I mean, if we're 45 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: making ship up based on no evidence, we can make 46 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: up any ship we want, and it's all consistent with 47 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: the no evidence that we have crime. Some paper, and 48 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: then we'll see what we can make of the pieces 49 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: of paper. I want to think about it like a lawyer, 50 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: where I just want to see the evidence. Now Chapter seven, 51 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: the Hunt for Paper. Look how pretty New York is? 52 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: Right now, it's not so bad. I love when the 53 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: lights low like this. Let's back it up for one second. 54 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: Last winter, before we got Billy's death certificate, before we 55 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: met Amanda, Austin and I started our hunt for paper 56 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: in the East Village, just a few blocks from where 57 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: Billy and my mom lived. So we're on Fifth Street 58 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: between First and Second Avenue. It's freezing cold and crystal 59 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: clear outside, and the sun is blasting in from the side, 60 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: and the trees are all barren and on the north 61 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: side of the street is the ninth precinct Um, which 62 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: is the police station. That police is the neighborhood I've 63 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: grown up in my whole life, and a place that 64 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: my mom always spits on the ground outside of because 65 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: as far as she understands, they're the one that murdered Billy. 66 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: We're searching for the police files from Billy's shooting. Well, 67 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: what do we want to find out? I would like 68 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: to hear if they still have records from two and 69 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: where they would be and how one could get them released. Um, yeah, 70 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: that's good. Yeah, I'm with you. All right, let's go, 71 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: let's go. Thank you. The station is bustling with uniformed police. 72 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: A small area near the front is filled with people waiting. 73 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: A pretty French girl is filing a report about her 74 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: stolen bite. We walk up to an information desk staffed 75 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: by a smiling cop. I'm good, I'm looking into an 76 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: incident that happened in Third Avenue, which is definitely The 77 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: cop looks young, like real young. But I'm wondering, do 78 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: you guys have records going back that far incident reports 79 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: and things. It would probably have to go through one 80 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: police plaza because the only record said, we have access 81 00:05:55,400 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: to was everything that's computerized and yeah, a phone number, yeah, 82 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: as he writes down the number, and older cops saunterers 83 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: over just the heads of folks. Nothing is recording right now. 84 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: I'm recording right now, So I'm so sorry. Oh well, 85 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: if you want to get information out of the police 86 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: on recording, go for the young one who blushes when 87 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: you stick a microphone in his face. He looked like 88 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: if you put a police uniform on a toddler. He 89 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: looked like a toddler was going trick or treating. As 90 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: they were actually much nicer than I expected, or much 91 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: more willing to help. I think that has to do 92 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: with the fact that they don't know what we're doing. 93 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: You have reached the New York City Police Department. We 94 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: call one Police Plaza, the headquarters of the n y 95 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 1: p D, and ask them where we can find police 96 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: records from a while ago, from eight three on. We 97 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: have everything on our computer, and then everything prior is 98 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: on microfilm. Oh it is, so you could still request it. Yes, 99 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: we just have to go up and get the archives. Martha, 100 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: how can I help you there? I'm calling regarding a 101 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: foil request that I've said so we filed something called 102 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: a FOIL request, which stands for Freedom of information law. 103 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: It's a way for members of the public to access 104 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: New York State government records. Hold on. The problem was 105 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: my mom didn't remember the exact date of the shooting, 106 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: so we gave the n y p D a week 107 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: long range. The first week of June, the NYPD sent 108 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: a letter back saying that they needed more information or 109 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: they would close the request. I was speaking to help you. 110 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: Principal Ellis was the person in the records department assigned 111 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: to our request. Yes, it's a it's a very busy day, sir. Okay, Well, 112 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: I received a letter in the mail that said I 113 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: needed to provide additional information about the request in order 114 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: for it to go forward, and if I didn't provide 115 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: additional information then it would be closed. Yes, okay, hold on, 116 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: let me let me see if I can pull up 117 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: the file. Hold on, please, now, let's see. Yes, we 118 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: need the exact date of occurrence and the complaint number. 119 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: So I don't know either of those things, which is 120 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: why I'm calling. Okay. If that's the case, you know, 121 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: you know we can't help you. I talked to somebody 122 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: else in your office last week who said otherwise. Yeah, 123 00:08:55,800 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: but but sir, sir, yes, uh yeah, but I mean really, 124 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: I know the exact location for twenty years. I know 125 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. Okay, No, I believe you. I'm 126 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: just wondering if there's any way that we can work 127 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: together to actually search this out because I don't know 128 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: the exact date. I know arrange. Oh well, look, I 129 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: know they're not going to be they well, they are 130 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: not going to be happy about this upstairs and clearly 131 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 1: records searching because they did not like the idea and 132 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: they go through tons and tons on microphone for nothing, 133 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: which is why I asked for a specific date. Who 134 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: I can do with in the meantime, I'll do this 135 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: in pieces. I'll just take the time pard and divided 136 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: in the half. If I do find something, okay, I'll 137 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: go for it. If not, and they'll go go to 138 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: the second half of that time period. That Thank you 139 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: so much. I wish I had better in information for you, 140 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: but I want to work with you is as much 141 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: as possible on this, Okay. But I'm not planeting any miracle, 142 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: of course, I mean will definitely you know, Okay, Thank 143 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: you so much. Well, we'll see all right, good day, sir. 144 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: All right, Um, I need to grab some food and 145 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: then I wanna Then just a week later, are you 146 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: fucking kidding me? I just got an email that said 147 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: the FOIL request for the police report was closed, saying, 148 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: in regard to the documents which you requested, I must 149 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 1: deny access to these records on the basis of public 150 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: Officers Law section blah blah, and that such records consist 151 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: of police officers personnel records and are therefore exempt from 152 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: disclosure under the provisions of civil rights law section blah 153 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: blah blah. You know, sometimes they close these things because 154 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: they didn't find them. They clearly found something. Yeah, they're 155 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:03,599 Speaker 1: telling us that they found and they're not going to 156 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: give it to us. Leakal Bureau Principle Ellis speaking to 157 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: help you. So we called Principal Ellis to see if 158 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: he could clarify the reason our request had been denied. 159 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: I got an email this morning saying that it was closed, okay, 160 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: and it says that it was closed because the records 161 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: consist of police officers personnel records. It's related to personnel 162 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,839 Speaker 1: records of a police officer. That's usually exemption to a 163 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: foil request. But what does a personnel record? What does 164 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 1: that mean? And what it supposed to me that the 165 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: employment record the implotment history of an officer. M. Yeah, 166 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 1: I guess I'm just a little confused, only because I 167 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,599 Speaker 1: was I was asking for the incident report and not 168 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: personnel records. Well, that would be considered part of it. 169 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: But sir, you do have do have an opportunity to 170 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: file an appeal. You do have that, Okay. I really 171 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: appreciate as well. You you're putting the request in up 172 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,599 Speaker 1: there to them to search for it. Um, thank you 173 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: for doing that, all right? Can I just asked before 174 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: I go, is there any other information that you can 175 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: tell me about this that doesn't involve going into whatever 176 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: is denied? Um? Let me see okay, Um, well, let 177 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: me see the original data. The instant was June. Well, 178 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: it happened late at night June third, two the Heightsman 179 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: incidents here eleven pm June two. Billy was shot around 180 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: eleven pm on June three. It was a police involved shooting. 181 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: And also there's another reason why you may not be 182 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: able to get access in particular record, because the officer 183 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: was working undercover. There was definitely a police officer involved, 184 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: and the police officer was working undercover, and for obvious reasons, 185 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: we have to we have to block any information regarding 186 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: the identity of the officer. So that's another rope block 187 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: right there. So I'm declaring to know. I'm just going 188 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: you know why it this was denied and that was 189 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: all Principle Ellis would tell us, it's out of our 190 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: hands at this point. You have to make a case 191 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: that you know, for for getting access to those documents. Okay, 192 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 1: all right, all right, thank you so much, Principle Ellis, 193 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: all right, goodbye. There was no way that we weren't 194 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: going to appeal, so we reached out to our legal muscle. Hey, Ron, 195 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:01,599 Speaker 1: it's Ron Koby. I I your name came up on 196 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: my Phonemafalaffele is here. Okay, So you got an email 197 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: from the FOYL people Austin. Do you want to read 198 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: him that. We explain to Ron that our request had 199 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: been denied because somewhere in the files where police officers 200 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: personnel records experience with this type of stuff. Fortunately do 201 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: Ron said he dealt with this before. Generally speaking, civil 202 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: rights Law fifty A protects the personnel records of members 203 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: of the uniform services and others. That is to say, 204 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: I can't get the cops file. I can't see when 205 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: he took vacation days, or whether she tested HIV positive, 206 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: or whether he's But in this case, he said, the 207 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: NYPD seemed to be interpreting the term personnel records in 208 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: a broadway. This now reads. The way this reads is 209 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: anything that has to do with police officer is like, oh, 210 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: here's camera footage of a police officer beating a demonstrator 211 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: over the head. Nope, sorry, personnel. Yeah, so so this 212 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: makes zero sense. So so anyway, okay, just just just 213 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: send me all that ship and I'll try to get 214 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: something out in the next few days. I won't send 215 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: it out until you you look it over. Oh wait, 216 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: what do you mean you get something back to the 217 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: end way, I didn't intend. What caused work is to 218 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: submit a fresh foil. Um. My office will do that. 219 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: We're requesting the records and we'll add a little more detail, 220 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: like there's there's specific categories of documents that you would 221 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: not know about. Is a lay person, thank you, thank you? 222 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: They left out Holmas? How did you leave out hommasi? 223 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: By so Ron Koby is in our corner and he 224 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: is dope. Ron Coobi is the man, Ron the saint 225 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: that he is submitted a new foil request to the 226 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: NYPD on our behalf. It's three pages long on his stationary, 227 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: and it says that it is going to be submitted 228 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: online and hand delivered to the record center. And then 229 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: he has a list of thirteen separate, very specific forms. 230 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: Oh it's an epic, sprawling request. It's because he knows 231 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: what the police paperwork looks like. You know, we don't. 232 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: We're like, we want a piece of paper to say 233 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: what happened. And he's like, well, okay, so I need this, this, this, 234 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: and this. So for the police files, all we could 235 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: do was cross our finger and wait, Herry Austin, Hey, 236 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: I know it's round Koby. I spoke with the detective 237 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: assigned to the foil request. Really nice guys. Um. He 238 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: said that the big issue is trapping down where the 239 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: files are physically located, because they're from nine two. But 240 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: he said this should be done the next couple of 241 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: weeks and we should have whatever we're going to get 242 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: by then, all right, take care. So we waited. A 243 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: couple of weeks turned into three than four. We tracked 244 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: down Amanda and got Billy's death certificate, which said he 245 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: died from homicide, and it's said a lot more. That's 246 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: after the break. I didn't fully get that. The death 247 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: certificate is literally just a list of the facts. It's 248 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: just back in the studio with Austin looking over Billie's 249 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: death certificate. So could you read it? Uh? I guess, 250 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: just read through the whole thing and then we can 251 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: talk about it. Certificate of death date filed eight two 252 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: June seven, forty five am. Name of deceased William Heightsman, 253 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: Sex is male. Approximate ages thirty seven years. Place of 254 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: death New York City, Burrow, Manhattan, Cabrini Hospital, where he 255 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: was an impatient, month day year, June two oh three am. 256 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: So he died on June at two oh three am. 257 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: He died in the middle of the night, which is 258 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: extra creepy to me, and for some reason my brain 259 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: immediately jumps to the other probably six seven eight hours 260 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: of that night, during which my mom was sleeping and 261 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: didn't know yet he was dead that whole night, and 262 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: she was sleeping thinking that she was going to wake 263 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: up and fight the case again and woke up and 264 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: probably got that call. And she said she got the 265 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: call in the morning. Right that morning, the hospital called 266 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: and the dude told me to come down to identify 267 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: the body, a William Heisman. It was around my mother's birthday, 268 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: which is June. I. Further certified from the investigation and 269 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: post mortem examination that in my opinion, death occurred on 270 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: the date and at the hour stated above, which again 271 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: is June two or three am, and resulted from And 272 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: then there are six empty boxes. One of them says 273 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: natural causes. Then there's accident, suicide, homicide, undetermined circumstances or 274 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: pending further investigation. And in our case or in Billy's case, 275 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: homicide is checked, which is chilling. My animal instinct was 276 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: he got murdered him. But homicide is when somebody causes 277 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: the death of another person in any situation. All murders 278 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: are homicides, but not all homicides are murders. And so 279 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: then it goes on and it says and that the 280 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: causes of death were and now this is the really 281 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: heavy duty part. Immediate cause. Multiple gunshot wounds of back, 282 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: back is the first thing listed. Multiple gunshot wounds of back, chest, liver, 283 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: spleen colon and arms with internal hemorrhage, survival twelve days 284 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: shot by police homicide. I came into this questioning everything. 285 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: I came into this process knowing that the only way 286 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: to actually do a fair and balanced assessment of the 287 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: situation was to question everything. So the assertion that he 288 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: was killed by the police was also a question mark 289 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: for me, because a rumor on the street doesn't mean 290 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: shipped to me. I want evidence. So now we have paper, 291 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: and the first place that piece of paper says that 292 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: he was shot was in the back. If Billy was 293 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: shot in the back, it at least opens the door 294 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: for serious questions about whether or not the police officer 295 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: who shot him shot Billy and self defense. It makes 296 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: me take the stories more seriously that we've heard from 297 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: my mom about what she says. Billy says in the hospital, 298 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: he told me he walked to the back of his 299 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: store to make a phone call. He says, du broke 300 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: down the front door, and it came and shooting and 301 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: shot him cold blood, starting in the back five times. 302 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: And the question was did you have a gun? No? 303 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: And that's all that you need to know. I now 304 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: believe that more we know for sure that William Heightsman 305 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: Billy Balls was killed by the police. It was in 306 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: this month of this year at this location, and he 307 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: died in this hospital and then was processed by this 308 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: medical Examiner's office. So all of the circumstances have now 309 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: been corroborated. The only thing we have no idea of 310 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: is motivation. Motive, Why now I want the police report 311 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: who shot him? Why? What were the circumstances? What's the 312 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: story that they give? Hey, Austin, it's Ron Kobe. It's Saturday, 313 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: a little after one. I'm pleased to report that Zeno's 314 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: paradox has been resolved and the arrow indeed has at 315 00:23:55,119 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 1: the target, and so amazingly, at eight fifty three out 316 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: on a Saturday morning, the NYPD has sent us a 317 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: traun if you will, of records, including um all the 318 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 1: crime scene unit stuff including photos and the arrest report 319 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: and other what we call d D five's, that is, 320 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: statements of the police about the investigation. And there certainly 321 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: is enough more than enough here to to put together 322 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: a narrative of what happened, whether people choose to accept 323 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: that narrative or not. But but there is a story 324 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: that the police tell here, uh, and it can be 325 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: teased out from the documents. So I'm I'm fording them 326 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 1: to you, and I'm fording them to Io and we'll 327 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: talk to take care. Hey man, it's I was just 328 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: looking at the police support. That could be from all 329 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: the photos are haunting. Second of all, there's something fishy, man. 330 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 1: There's something something's not right that's coming up in two weeks. Sorry. 331 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: Crimetown is Zack Stewart Pontier and Mark Smirling. The Ballad 332 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: of Billy Balls is hosted by me Io Till It 333 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: Right and made in partnership with Caden's thirteen. You can 334 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: find me on the internet. Um Io loves you on everything. 335 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: Say hello. I love seeing all you guys, And if 336 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: you want to know more about my story, pick up 337 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: my memoir Darling Days. I love to hear what you 338 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: think of it. We also want to hear from you. 339 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: We have a voicemail set up for you to call us. 340 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: This one is from an anonymous listener. It's highly annoying 341 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: that you guys don't go ahead and just at least 342 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: let us know what the police records say about the events. 343 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: We know you have them and you're just hiding them. 344 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: Episode after episode, you're hiding what happens. You know, we 345 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: didn't actually have them until we did. If there's something 346 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: on your mind, thoughts, feelings, complaints, outbursts of love and joy, 347 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: call us and leave us a voicemail at five seven 348 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,479 Speaker 1: oh three zero. I'm serious. Just call us right now, 349 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 1: just say whatever. You can also get into our discussion 350 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: forum on our website, The Ballad of Billy Balls dot com. 351 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: The show is produced by Me, Kevin Sheppard and Ryan Swigert. 352 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: Our senior producers Austin Mitchell, Who's Rapidly Becoming My Best Friend? 353 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: Editing by Zack Stewart Contier and Mark Smirling. Fact checking 354 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: by Jennifer Blackman. This episode was mixed and sound designed 355 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: by Sam Bear. Music by Kenny qcach. Our title track 356 00:26:53,640 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: is Dark Allies by Light Asylum. Thank You, Shannon. Archival 357 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: research by Brennan Reese. Thanks to Daniella Aria, Rachel Lee Wright, 358 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: Emily Weiderman, Green Card Pictures, Alessandro Centauro, Bill Clegg, Ben Davis, 359 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: Orn Rosenbaum and the team at Cadence thirteen, and of course, 360 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: as always, my Mom, without whom none of this would 361 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:24,360 Speaker 1: be possible.