WEBVTT - AMERICA'S GREATEST PRESIDENTS 0:00:11.657 --> 0:00:14.937 You're listening to The Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure 0:00:14.937 --> 0:00:17.977 you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or 0:00:17.977 --> 0:00:31.697 wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the special edition 0:00:31.737 --> 0:00:36.577 of Holding On. I'm Buck Sexton. Independence Day weekend is here, 0:00:36.617 --> 0:00:39.497 my friends, one of my favorite holidays, right up there 0:00:39.577 --> 0:00:43.977 with Christmas, Thanksgiving definitely top three. And it's a time 0:00:44.017 --> 0:00:46.417 when we can all take a step back and just 0:00:46.497 --> 0:00:50.297 think about how America's awesome and this is the greatest 0:00:50.297 --> 0:00:53.417 country in the world, in fact, in the history of 0:00:53.457 --> 0:00:55.897 the world. And a big part of that awesome as 0:00:56.017 --> 0:01:01.257 comes from our amazing history of presidents. Not all of 0:01:01.297 --> 0:01:04.217 them have been great, obviously, but if there have been 0:01:04.297 --> 0:01:11.177 some tremendous patriots, some geniuses of governance, some titan of 0:01:11.217 --> 0:01:13.777 the polity, and we want to take a moment here 0:01:13.817 --> 0:01:16.657 before you go off for your holiday weekend and just 0:01:17.017 --> 0:01:20.417 celebrate some of the best of the best, their wisdom, 0:01:21.337 --> 0:01:25.297 their ideas, the things that brought this country together and 0:01:25.337 --> 0:01:27.897 have pushed us forward to this point in time where 0:01:27.977 --> 0:01:29.977 despite all of our challenges, all the stuff we talked 0:01:29.977 --> 0:01:32.777 about here on the show, America is still number one. 0:01:33.177 --> 0:01:36.537 And that's something that we should all be pretty darn 0:01:36.657 --> 0:01:39.657 happy about. So let's take a look. For example, George Washington. 0:01:39.697 --> 0:01:42.857 We'll start with number one. Number O oh no, George 0:01:42.897 --> 0:01:45.897 Washington from his farewell address, it is important that the 0:01:45.937 --> 0:01:49.457 habits of thinking in a free country should inspire caution 0:01:49.817 --> 0:01:53.977 in those entrusted with its administration to confine themselves within 0:01:54.017 --> 0:01:57.777 their respective constitutional spears. That's from Washington back in seventeen 0:01:57.897 --> 0:02:02.057 ninety six September of that year. George Washington was amazing, 0:02:02.497 --> 0:02:05.057 and he could have turned himself into a king, as 0:02:05.057 --> 0:02:07.377 we all know, he could have gone even further. Who 0:02:07.417 --> 0:02:11.177 knows how long we could have had presidential even King Washington. 0:02:11.337 --> 0:02:15.057 But he loved this country and he wanted a government 0:02:15.537 --> 0:02:20.297 of by and for the people, not to be replicating 0:02:20.657 --> 0:02:24.497 the monarchy that he had such a critical role in 0:02:24.737 --> 0:02:29.377 overthrowealth pushing off American shore. As I should say, and 0:02:29.617 --> 0:02:32.257 this is obviously one of the greatest presidents we've ever had. 0:02:32.257 --> 0:02:34.017 A lot of people say the greatest, tough to beat 0:02:34.137 --> 0:02:36.177 number one. Not only was he great, he was the first. 0:02:36.737 --> 0:02:40.457 And without him would we even have had this republic 0:02:40.497 --> 0:02:43.457 bestowed to bestowed to all of us. So we're gonna 0:02:43.497 --> 0:02:46.537 talk more about the greatness of George Washington. Here, just 0:02:46.537 --> 0:02:49.337 a little bit of a trip down awesome lane with 0:02:49.497 --> 0:02:54.017 our man George w not Bush, but Washington, and we'll 0:02:54.057 --> 0:02:55.937 have a conversation about him with an expert a little 0:02:55.937 --> 0:02:58.137 bit we also have, of course, you can talk about 0:02:58.497 --> 0:03:01.337 George w also gonna talk about Thomas Jefferson. Right back 0:03:01.337 --> 0:03:05.457 in March of eighteen oh one, Jefferson wrote, a wise 0:03:05.537 --> 0:03:08.817 and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, 0:03:09.097 --> 0:03:11.457 shall leave them otherwise just free to regulate their own 0:03:11.497 --> 0:03:14.697 pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from 0:03:14.737 --> 0:03:18.217 the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. You 0:03:18.337 --> 0:03:20.857 gotta remember, folks, especially in this time when there's endless 0:03:20.897 --> 0:03:23.257 regulation and taxation and a lot of it, it it feels 0:03:23.297 --> 0:03:27.537 like without representation, at least, not worthwhile representation that the 0:03:27.577 --> 0:03:32.737 American founders, of which Jefferson was clearly a giant, they 0:03:32.857 --> 0:03:36.897 understood that the government needs to just do some basic things. 0:03:37.017 --> 0:03:41.697 Keep people from hurting each other illegally, right, keep people 0:03:41.817 --> 0:03:45.737 from injuring one another, and let them do their thing. 0:03:45.897 --> 0:03:47.817 Let the business of the American people be business. I 0:03:47.817 --> 0:03:50.977 think that's actually Calvin Coolidge quote. But nonetheless, Calvin Coolidge 0:03:50.977 --> 0:03:54.017 is a pretty good guy too, and not actually be 0:03:54.177 --> 0:03:57.137 constantly taking so much from the American people that they 0:03:57.177 --> 0:04:00.777 feel like their government is onerous and oppressive. Now that 0:04:00.977 --> 0:04:03.537 was from the founding. You think about this right now, 0:04:03.537 --> 0:04:06.777 with the inflation rate where it is, the Biden administration 0:04:07.377 --> 0:04:12.857 in this state of just termore and constant dissent in 0:04:12.977 --> 0:04:14.937 terms of the polls and just the way people feel 0:04:14.937 --> 0:04:18.057 about the country. Yeah, it feels like they're taking too 0:04:18.137 --> 0:04:20.817 much from us these days. It feels like they've made 0:04:20.817 --> 0:04:24.777 everything more expensive. Remember, inflation is just attacks on working 0:04:25.017 --> 0:04:28.817 people that hurts them more than anybody else. So we 0:04:28.817 --> 0:04:31.617 are going to talk more about Jefferson, the genius of 0:04:31.657 --> 0:04:35.657 Thomas Jefferson. Also got to throw in there. James Madison, 0:04:36.417 --> 0:04:38.177 one of the authors of the Federalist Papers, of course, 0:04:38.177 --> 0:04:41.057 the primary author and Federalists number five. He wrote, if 0:04:41.137 --> 0:04:45.097 angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls 0:04:45.097 --> 0:04:48.217 on government would be necessary. In framing, a government would 0:04:48.217 --> 0:04:50.977 just to be administered by men over men. The great 0:04:51.017 --> 0:04:54.737 difficulty lies in this. You must first enable the govern 0:04:54.857 --> 0:04:57.377 to control the government, and in the next place oblige 0:04:57.377 --> 0:05:01.057 it to control itself. You've got to restrain the Leviathan, 0:05:01.137 --> 0:05:04.377 my friends, it's absolutely critical. You see, our founding fathers 0:05:04.417 --> 0:05:08.817 understood that one of the great travesties of the previous 0:05:08.857 --> 0:05:12.617 centuries in Europe was that you had these monarchs who, 0:05:12.857 --> 0:05:15.657 in different ways, would basically do whatever they want to. 0:05:15.897 --> 0:05:19.217 Right Magna Carta back in twelve fifteen in England was 0:05:19.257 --> 0:05:21.377 an attempt to at least put some rules the road 0:05:21.417 --> 0:05:24.617 in place, but they were often broken, and other countries 0:05:24.617 --> 0:05:28.617 in Europe obviously had no such restraints on the power 0:05:28.697 --> 0:05:31.817 of the monarchy. And you can't live with that level 0:05:31.857 --> 0:05:34.937 of tyranny. You're not a free people. If the government 0:05:35.297 --> 0:05:38.377 can just turn on the oppression mechanism, there's nothing that 0:05:38.417 --> 0:05:40.137 you can do about it. And that's just the way 0:05:40.177 --> 0:05:43.297 that it is. So Madison was saying, look, we want governance, 0:05:43.337 --> 0:05:48.217 but we don't want a governance that has no limitations. 0:05:48.337 --> 0:05:50.737 There have to be clear markers of what the government 0:05:50.737 --> 0:05:53.177 can and cannot do. And now, look, there are a 0:05:53.177 --> 0:05:54.497 lot of president you can throw in the mix. A 0:05:54.497 --> 0:05:56.577 lot of people think and probably gonna talk about Abraham 0:05:56.617 --> 0:05:58.777 Lincoln next. I don't know, some of you probably get 0:05:58.777 --> 0:06:01.297 really excited about Calvin Coolidge. Are other names that might 0:06:01.337 --> 0:06:04.537 come to mind or Democrat viewers maybe FDR, though I'd 0:06:04.537 --> 0:06:07.337 probably argue with them on that one. But Ronald Reagan, 0:06:07.577 --> 0:06:10.897 my friends, Ronald Reagan a guy talk about someone who 0:06:10.897 --> 0:06:13.737 loves freedom and in living memory, was president of the 0:06:13.817 --> 0:06:16.337 United States. You got to think about our man Reagan. 0:06:16.417 --> 0:06:18.937 Here he was back in nineteen eighty nine talking about 0:06:18.977 --> 0:06:22.137 how America is freedom. We've got to do a better 0:06:22.257 --> 0:06:26.377 job of getting across that America is freedom, freedom of speech, 0:06:27.017 --> 0:06:31.857 freedom of religion, freedom of enterprise, and freedom is special 0:06:31.897 --> 0:06:37.417 and rare. It's fragile, it needs production. We could say 0:06:37.417 --> 0:06:40.737 it quite like Dutch. All right, Look, it's Independence Day weekend. 0:06:40.897 --> 0:06:42.817 I know you're thinking about the holiday and everything else. 0:06:43.217 --> 0:06:45.617 Let's just do a little, as I said, trip down 0:06:45.657 --> 0:06:49.177 awesome lane here about freedom, liberty and America with some 0:06:49.217 --> 0:06:51.737 of the greatest presidents we've ever had a little bit 0:06:51.777 --> 0:06:55.617 of a refresher and fresh look at why they were 0:06:55.617 --> 0:06:58.097 so awesome. We'll get into that with some experts coming 0:06:58.177 --> 0:07:08.817 up here withhold the line. I don't know if you 0:07:08.817 --> 0:07:10.577 saw this, but there was a recent story about an 0:07:10.577 --> 0:07:12.737 Arizona real estate agent that found the home she lived 0:07:12.737 --> 0:07:15.177 and was listed for sale. The problem was she wasn't 0:07:15.217 --> 0:07:17.577 selling her home. She was the victim of home title fraud, 0:07:17.657 --> 0:07:20.537 a devastating crime happening all over the country. According to 0:07:20.577 --> 0:07:22.857 the experts at home title lock, the crime is incredibly 0:07:22.897 --> 0:07:26.177 profitable and hard to detect. An identity thief simply creates 0:07:26.217 --> 0:07:28.737 a fake title transfer for your home and refiles as 0:07:28.737 --> 0:07:30.817 the new owner. Then you can take out loans on 0:07:30.857 --> 0:07:34.217 your home or sell it. Typical identity theft services don't 0:07:34.217 --> 0:07:37.537 cover you, and neither there's homeowner's insurance. Home title lock does. 0:07:37.977 --> 0:07:40.617 Home title lock puts a barrier around your home's title 0:07:40.697 --> 0:07:43.217 the instant they detect anyone tampering with your home's title, 0:07:43.497 --> 0:07:45.417 They help shut it down and help get your home 0:07:45.457 --> 0:07:47.617 back in your name. Here's what you should do. Go 0:07:47.657 --> 0:07:50.057 to home title lock dot com and read the testimonials 0:07:50.057 --> 0:07:53.737 from FBI agents and government officials. Then register your address 0:07:53.737 --> 0:07:55.497 to see if you're already a victim and don't even 0:07:55.497 --> 0:07:57.537 know it. When you protect your home, tell them Buck 0:07:57.577 --> 0:08:00.777 sends you to get thirty free days of protection. Hometatlelock 0:08:00.857 --> 0:08:13.417 dot com, hometitlelock dot com. George Washington, the hero of 0:08:13.417 --> 0:08:17.137 the Revolution, was the most admired and beloved American of 0:08:17.177 --> 0:08:20.377 his time. It is only natural that in seventeen eighty nine, 0:08:20.417 --> 0:08:22.737 the nation turned to him to serve as the first 0:08:22.777 --> 0:08:26.937 president under its new constitution. While in office, Washington was 0:08:26.977 --> 0:08:29.417 careful to adhere to the constitution he had sworn to 0:08:29.497 --> 0:08:32.337 protect and established many of the presidents that are still 0:08:32.337 --> 0:08:35.337 observed to this day. In his seventeen ninety six Farewell 0:08:35.337 --> 0:08:38.417 addressed the American people, Washington warned of the dangers of 0:08:38.457 --> 0:08:42.017 a government that acts beyond its constitution, beyond its constitutional authority, 0:08:42.457 --> 0:08:45.537 a quote that's especially relevant today. Here, If in the 0:08:45.617 --> 0:08:48.217 opinion of the people, the distribution or modification of the 0:08:48.257 --> 0:08:51.897 constitutional powers be in any particular wrong, let it be 0:08:51.937 --> 0:08:55.617 corrected by an amendment in the way which the Constitution designates. 0:08:55.977 --> 0:08:59.057 But let there be no change by usurpation. Or though 0:08:59.097 --> 0:09:01.897 this in one instance maybe the instrument of good, it 0:09:02.057 --> 0:09:06.857 is the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed. Yes, Indeed, 0:09:07.337 --> 0:09:10.057 Joman out of gave more insight into America's first president. 0:09:10.417 --> 0:09:14.217 Is another president of the Heritage Foundation, Kevin Roberts. Kevin, 0:09:14.257 --> 0:09:16.657 thanks for being with us, Thanks for having me, Buck, 0:09:16.657 --> 0:09:21.217 It's pleasure. So look, there are some presidents that everybody know, 0:09:21.417 --> 0:09:25.737 every school child knows George Washington, first president, really important. 0:09:25.897 --> 0:09:28.617 You know, he's on some of our money, Our capital's 0:09:28.657 --> 0:09:31.897 named for him. How is this man such a giant? 0:09:31.937 --> 0:09:34.017 I mean, we're going to Independence Day weekend. We're having 0:09:34.057 --> 0:09:36.897 a little raw role Meerica moment here. How did he 0:09:36.937 --> 0:09:41.617 bring it all together? You know, ironically, Buck Washington is 0:09:41.657 --> 0:09:45.257 a giant two hundred and fifty years after he burst 0:09:45.297 --> 0:09:48.497 onto the scene as a young army officer because of 0:09:48.497 --> 0:09:50.937 his humility. I mean, this is a man, if you 0:09:51.017 --> 0:09:54.497 read even a short biography of him, who possessed so 0:09:54.537 --> 0:09:58.057 many human virtues, so many great attributes. You know, I 0:09:58.097 --> 0:10:00.017 could at least speak for myself. If it were me, 0:10:00.017 --> 0:10:02.337 I'd probably be a little arrogant about having all those things. 0:10:02.617 --> 0:10:05.057 He was quite the opposite, And so I think his 0:10:05.217 --> 0:10:09.497 humility actually made him appeal to people. They sort of 0:10:09.537 --> 0:10:12.377 were drawn to want to be led by him. And 0:10:12.417 --> 0:10:15.857 he understood this very important point, which is the virtue 0:10:15.857 --> 0:10:19.337 of virtues, as our founders understood, and that's magnanimity, that 0:10:19.457 --> 0:10:23.217 is aspiring to great things and impairing those two things 0:10:23.297 --> 0:10:25.857 meant that he was willing to sacrifice for the country 0:10:25.897 --> 0:10:28.897 in ways that he and his wife never anticipated doing, 0:10:28.937 --> 0:10:31.417 and for us now in the twenty first century, he 0:10:31.497 --> 0:10:34.377 remains a timeless model of what it means to adhere 0:10:34.377 --> 0:10:38.577 to American values. What do people know to this day 0:10:38.657 --> 0:10:42.577 about about George Washington to the man? You know, I mean, 0:10:42.577 --> 0:10:47.497 there's there's some legends, right, but there's also enough biographical 0:10:47.617 --> 0:10:50.417 record and from the contemporary sources that we should have 0:10:50.457 --> 0:10:55.697 some portrait of him, obviously metaphorically speaking. So what was 0:10:55.737 --> 0:10:59.617 he like? Washington was a man that you wanted to 0:10:59.617 --> 0:11:02.017 spend some time with. We would probably know even more 0:11:02.057 --> 0:11:05.897 about him had it not been that his wife burned 0:11:05.977 --> 0:11:08.177 almost all of the letters that he wrote to her, 0:11:08.297 --> 0:11:11.497 just to make sure that their relationship remained private, even 0:11:11.537 --> 0:11:15.657 for posterity's sake. But because the Washington's were so generous 0:11:15.897 --> 0:11:18.537 and hosting people at their home at Mount Vernon, we 0:11:18.617 --> 0:11:20.697 have a lot of firsthand accounts of what it was 0:11:20.777 --> 0:11:24.457 like to be in his person, and he was generous. 0:11:24.777 --> 0:11:28.137 He was not nearly as quiet as sometimes we portray 0:11:28.217 --> 0:11:30.617 him to be. It isn't that he was as gregarious 0:11:30.657 --> 0:11:32.777 as some of his peers, but he was a very 0:11:32.817 --> 0:11:37.497 good conversationalist. He was extremely well read, He was certainly 0:11:37.817 --> 0:11:41.417 much smarter. He possessed a greater intellect than sometimes the 0:11:41.497 --> 0:11:45.377 contrast with Jefferson and Hamilton might suggest. But the point was, 0:11:45.817 --> 0:11:49.217 you wanted to be at dinner with Washington. You wanted 0:11:49.257 --> 0:11:51.697 if you happen to be an aide to camp or 0:11:51.737 --> 0:11:54.297 a young officer in the Continental Army, you wanted to 0:11:54.337 --> 0:11:56.417 be in his presence. Not because he was going to 0:11:56.417 --> 0:12:01.057 give some sidewinding inspirational speech, but because he would really 0:12:01.097 --> 0:12:03.417 focus on you. He would home in on you as 0:12:03.417 --> 0:12:06.737 a person and come to know you and also inspire 0:12:06.777 --> 0:12:09.617 you in that way that sometimes these more quiet leaders. 0:12:09.657 --> 0:12:11.977 Do you know? He just as I'd sit here describing 0:12:12.017 --> 0:12:14.657 this as a historian, I think this is one of 0:12:14.657 --> 0:12:16.737 the guys I've always wanted to be able to spend 0:12:16.737 --> 0:12:20.377 some time with, if perhaps somehow time travel. We're not fiction. 0:12:21.217 --> 0:12:27.577 And what can you tell us about Washington's for Washington 0:12:27.937 --> 0:12:31.177 becoming a great military leader? I mean, we often be 0:12:31.257 --> 0:12:34.097 first president. A lot of thoughts about the early days 0:12:34.217 --> 0:12:37.057 of the Republic under his time. A lot of people 0:12:37.097 --> 0:12:40.417 think about that. But he had a long and distor 0:12:40.457 --> 0:12:44.017 He had a very distinguished, certainly and reasonably long military 0:12:44.057 --> 0:12:48.097 career as well. Yeah, Washington cut his teeth as a 0:12:48.177 --> 0:12:51.377 young military officer because he was willing to go on 0:12:51.457 --> 0:12:55.057 some pretty daring horseback raids. In fact, he got into 0:12:55.057 --> 0:12:57.657 trouble during the French and Indian War as a result 0:12:57.697 --> 0:12:59.857 of doing that. But there are a couple of attributes 0:12:59.937 --> 0:13:04.457 of Washington as a military leader that military historians have highlighted. 0:13:04.697 --> 0:13:08.217 The first is Washington is a very highly regarded tactician. 0:13:08.657 --> 0:13:11.457 You know, as it turns out, as you know, Washington 0:13:11.537 --> 0:13:13.817 had a lot of practice in the early years of 0:13:13.817 --> 0:13:17.097 the Revolution using the tactic of retreat. You know, as 0:13:17.097 --> 0:13:19.977 I say that, students might say, well, gosh, he must 0:13:19.977 --> 0:13:23.097 have been awful. No, actually it was rather brilliant because, 0:13:23.377 --> 0:13:27.137 as many people know, the Condinal Army, almost routinely, in 0:13:27.297 --> 0:13:31.537 contrast with the British Army, was underresourced. It was undermanned, 0:13:31.857 --> 0:13:34.097 and he had to be very prudent about the number 0:13:34.097 --> 0:13:36.097 of men and the amount of resources he had, and 0:13:36.137 --> 0:13:39.977 so he developed a very efficient way of abandoning a 0:13:40.017 --> 0:13:43.617 battlefield if it was not so strategically important to live 0:13:43.737 --> 0:13:46.297 to fight another day. And it leads me to the 0:13:46.337 --> 0:13:49.737 second attribute of Washington as a military leader that historians 0:13:49.737 --> 0:13:52.937 have recognized and even cell painted, and it is his 0:13:53.097 --> 0:13:56.937 understanding that what happened on the battlefield had a huge 0:13:57.097 --> 0:14:00.257 impact on the home front. This is particularly true during 0:14:00.297 --> 0:14:03.737 the British New York campaign in seventeen seventy six. In 0:14:03.777 --> 0:14:06.897 other words, he understood he had to minimize losses and 0:14:06.897 --> 0:14:09.937 he had to find those rare opportunities for his under 0:14:10.097 --> 0:14:13.377 manned army to find a tactical victory, which, of course 0:14:13.417 --> 0:14:16.697 he did enough early in the war to keep the 0:14:16.737 --> 0:14:20.697 morale at home going. This is a very underappreciated attribute 0:14:20.897 --> 0:14:24.657 of a military leader. That's particularly important in a republic 0:14:24.737 --> 0:14:28.497 where sustaining that morale, that will, that popular will for 0:14:28.577 --> 0:14:31.937 support of the cause is always difficult. And what were 0:14:31.937 --> 0:14:34.457 some of the most important things for everyone at home 0:14:35.097 --> 0:14:41.257 when it came to Washington's role in the creation of 0:14:41.297 --> 0:14:44.337 this new republic, I mean more on the political side. Now, 0:14:44.777 --> 0:14:47.377 people often think about how well Washington could have made 0:14:47.417 --> 0:14:50.497 himself king, right, but he decided that he didn't want that. 0:14:50.577 --> 0:14:54.377 To your point about humility, what should everyone know? Well, 0:14:54.657 --> 0:14:58.137 we cannot overstate that enough. I mean, it was very possible, 0:14:58.177 --> 0:15:01.617 it was politically plausible, if not likely, that if Washington 0:15:01.817 --> 0:15:05.017 wanted to be king or wanted to serve a limitless 0:15:05.097 --> 0:15:07.377 number of terms as president he could have. He was 0:15:07.457 --> 0:15:10.297 that popular. I mean, the Republic, the young Republic, owed 0:15:10.377 --> 0:15:12.697 that much debt to him for his leadership. And so 0:15:12.777 --> 0:15:15.057 once again it comes back to his humility, even as 0:15:15.097 --> 0:15:18.657 a very popular political persona. But the second thing is 0:15:18.977 --> 0:15:22.217 he was an excellent judge of character and excellent judge 0:15:22.257 --> 0:15:25.057 of talent. And so just as he assembled the right 0:15:25.097 --> 0:15:28.697 combination of generals during the war, he assembled what I 0:15:28.737 --> 0:15:32.017 think remains the greatest cabinet of all of our president 0:15:32.257 --> 0:15:35.137 presidential administrations in history. I think about the talent the 0:15:35.217 --> 0:15:38.337 virtue of those men that you know, the first secretaries 0:15:38.337 --> 0:15:42.457 of the various federal departments. Washington assembled them in a 0:15:42.497 --> 0:15:45.737 way that recognized there were some political differences among them, 0:15:45.777 --> 0:15:49.177 as we often discussed in history classes, but they also 0:15:49.257 --> 0:15:51.777 knew that they were forging a new republic. And it 0:15:52.177 --> 0:15:56.697 leads me to conclude my celebration of his political acumen 0:15:56.737 --> 0:16:01.497 by saying, he also recognized that America would be thrown 0:16:01.537 --> 0:16:04.977 into some political tension. And obviously, after he left office, 0:16:05.017 --> 0:16:08.977 and especially after he died, America did descend, I might say, 0:16:09.017 --> 0:16:12.297 into its two party political system. But what Washington was 0:16:12.337 --> 0:16:14.977 able to do for the better part of a decade 0:16:15.457 --> 0:16:19.657 was keep that those factions from developing and focused instead 0:16:19.697 --> 0:16:22.937 on the economic and political and social health of the country. 0:16:23.097 --> 0:16:25.537 Had he not done that, Buck, and had we descended 0:16:25.617 --> 0:16:29.337 into Washington being leader of one political party or another, 0:16:29.697 --> 0:16:31.737 I'm not sure America would have been able to win 0:16:31.777 --> 0:16:34.377 its next major conflict with the British, the War of 0:16:34.377 --> 0:16:39.577 eighteen twelve. Kevin, appreciate you educating us all for Independence 0:16:39.657 --> 0:16:42.337 Day weekend on Washington. We're gonna talk you a little 0:16:42.377 --> 0:16:45.977 later about another great president, So stay with us. Okay, 0:16:47.817 --> 0:16:50.977 after the break, Historian Kevin Gutzman joins us to help 0:16:51.017 --> 0:16:53.857 examine the author of the Declaration of Independence and arguably 0:16:53.857 --> 0:16:57.697 America's most radical president in some ways, Thomas Jefferson, Stay 0:16:57.737 --> 0:17:08.497 with us. A lot of companies promise that your privacy 0:17:08.577 --> 0:17:10.937 is guaranteed, but we know that's not true. That's why 0:17:11.017 --> 0:17:14.257 you need a new privacy and cybersecurity application tool called Secure. 0:17:14.697 --> 0:17:18.497 It spelled SEK. You are Secure is using proprietary encryption 0:17:18.497 --> 0:17:21.977 and offering secure instant messaging and email, but secure all 0:17:21.977 --> 0:17:24.697 of your communications based on servers and data centers hosted 0:17:24.697 --> 0:17:27.377 in Switzerland without using any of the big tech platforms. 0:17:27.497 --> 0:17:30.977 Privacy is a big issue now. 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As we've been discussing, America has had a 0:18:12.217 --> 0:18:15.017 share of presidents who were dedicated to the ideals of liberty, 0:18:15.057 --> 0:18:17.457 but few, if any, are as closely associated with that 0:18:17.537 --> 0:18:21.537 ideal as our third President, Thomas Jefferson, as the primary 0:18:21.577 --> 0:18:23.977 author of the Declaration of Independence. It was Jefferson who's 0:18:24.017 --> 0:18:26.417 credited with the immortal words that serves the bedrock of 0:18:26.417 --> 0:18:29.457 American liberty. We hold these truths to be self evident, 0:18:29.537 --> 0:18:32.137 that all men are created equal, they are endowed by 0:18:32.137 --> 0:18:35.977 their creator with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty, 0:18:36.017 --> 0:18:39.497 and the pursuit of happiness. They're just what kind of 0:18:39.697 --> 0:18:42.657 president was Thomas Jefferson doing? To me? From We're inside 0:18:42.657 --> 0:18:45.577 as pressor of History at Western connect State University, an 0:18:45.697 --> 0:18:50.177 author of Thomas Jefferson Revolutionary A Radical Struggle to Remake America, 0:18:50.297 --> 0:18:54.017 Kevin GutsMan, Kevin, thanks for being with us. I mean 0:18:54.017 --> 0:18:57.257 to be here, Buck. So just when you first sit 0:18:57.297 --> 0:18:59.897 down and you're speaking to students and you want to 0:18:59.897 --> 0:19:02.217 give them a sense, I mean, we're going into the 0:19:02.257 --> 0:19:04.817 Independence Day weekend now people are thinking a lot about America, 0:19:04.817 --> 0:19:11.377 our history, the greatness of Jefferson. Where do you begin? Well, wow, 0:19:11.577 --> 0:19:15.417 he stood for American independence. He stood for the independence 0:19:15.457 --> 0:19:20.977 of the individual. Is guiding principle in American politics was federalism, 0:19:21.137 --> 0:19:25.057 or the idea of decentralization. He said that when it 0:19:25.097 --> 0:19:27.697 came to conflicts between the federal government of the states, 0:19:27.697 --> 0:19:30.857 he would favor the states. Within a state, he would 0:19:30.857 --> 0:19:33.097 tend to favor the counties, and within a county he 0:19:33.097 --> 0:19:35.177 would favor what he called wards, what we would think 0:19:35.217 --> 0:19:38.577 of his precincts. So he had the idea that virtually 0:19:38.617 --> 0:19:40.777 nobody would be in a position like his and which 0:19:40.817 --> 0:19:45.457 he could influence national policy directly. And so if the 0:19:45.457 --> 0:19:48.057 common men were going to help to shape his own 0:19:48.097 --> 0:19:52.297 life as much as feasible, government should be as decentralized 0:19:52.337 --> 0:19:56.577 as practicable. And that's what he argued for while he 0:19:56.617 --> 0:19:59.297 was in Congress, when he was in the cabinet, and 0:19:59.337 --> 0:20:04.817 ultimately as president. And there were many facets did Jefferson right? 0:20:04.857 --> 0:20:08.457 I mean, he obviously is known as one of the 0:20:08.777 --> 0:20:13.577 primary found fathers. He was also an autodidact on a 0:20:13.657 --> 0:20:15.937 number of issues, right he was. He was an inventor. 0:20:15.937 --> 0:20:18.017 He had I mean to tell everyone a little bit 0:20:18.057 --> 0:20:21.257 about some of his areas of exploration. Some of the 0:20:21.297 --> 0:20:24.817 things that he did that aren't you know, aren't necessarily 0:20:25.137 --> 0:20:27.057 the first things that come to mind. I mean about 0:20:27.057 --> 0:20:30.217 my understanding is he was really into plants and astronomy 0:20:30.337 --> 0:20:34.777 and why making and all kinds of things. Right well, 0:20:34.817 --> 0:20:38.497 he wanted to be o'car in every area of science. 0:20:38.737 --> 0:20:42.937 So he was a path breaking linguist. He was highly 0:20:42.977 --> 0:20:46.937 interested in anthropology. He was an ethno historian. He was 0:20:47.017 --> 0:20:51.777 the first person who conducted a scientific archaeological excavation in 0:20:52.017 --> 0:20:55.457 North America. In fact, a colleague of mine tells me 0:20:55.537 --> 0:21:00.537 that that excavation, the methods he used remained current among 0:21:00.657 --> 0:21:05.097 archaeologists for over a century after Jefferson conducted it. He 0:21:05.177 --> 0:21:08.777 wrote the most important American book of the eighteenth century, 0:21:09.097 --> 0:21:13.617 and there he was a leading architect, and in fact 0:21:14.057 --> 0:21:16.697 he's the fellow who's most responsible for the fact that 0:21:16.737 --> 0:21:20.937 American public buildings tend to be highly influenced by Greek 0:21:20.977 --> 0:21:25.457 and Roman architecture. He also had the idea that America 0:21:25.497 --> 0:21:29.497 should have a decimal based coinage system. In fact, that 0:21:29.537 --> 0:21:32.377 was ours was the first one of such in the world, 0:21:32.417 --> 0:21:35.737 and in my memory even finally the British decided they 0:21:35.737 --> 0:21:39.777 should have a decimal coinage system too. So there is 0:21:40.137 --> 0:21:45.457 Jefferson's influence basically everywhere you want to look. And now 0:21:45.537 --> 0:21:50.057 talk to me a bit about the philosophical and personal 0:21:51.377 --> 0:21:55.697 debate between what I guess you could call Jeffersonianism and Hamiltonianism. 0:21:57.217 --> 0:22:02.217 Well I mentioned Jefferson's primary political principle was this idea 0:22:02.257 --> 0:22:06.177 of decentralization, that if you wanted to elevate the role 0:22:06.257 --> 0:22:09.337 of the common man in making his community and making 0:22:09.377 --> 0:22:12.137 his life, had to ensure that the power of government 0:22:12.337 --> 0:22:18.497 was as localized as possible. Hamilton had essentially the opposite idea. 0:22:18.617 --> 0:22:21.937 He thought it was extremely important for the United States 0:22:21.977 --> 0:22:24.177 to be a powerful country on the world stage, and 0:22:24.257 --> 0:22:29.097 so worked energetically to create the US Constitution. And then 0:22:29.257 --> 0:22:33.097 once the Washington administration came and he was Treasury Secretary, 0:22:33.577 --> 0:22:37.777 he worked indefatigably to try to centralize authority, to try 0:22:37.777 --> 0:22:40.257 to make the federal authority as strong as it could be, 0:22:40.297 --> 0:22:42.977 and this of course set the stage for the epic 0:22:43.017 --> 0:22:46.737 clash between the two of them in the cabinet. Now, 0:22:46.777 --> 0:22:49.177 what can you tell us about Jefferson's thoughts on the 0:22:49.217 --> 0:22:52.817 French Revolution and perhaps some of the areas where if 0:22:52.817 --> 0:22:54.617 he had seen where things were going, he might have 0:22:54.617 --> 0:22:56.497 fought a little differently, I mean, on the cover of 0:22:56.497 --> 0:23:00.737 your book, as Jefferson, the revolutionary American Revolution ended up 0:23:00.817 --> 0:23:03.737 quite differently from the French Revolution. There's the book again, 0:23:03.777 --> 0:23:06.577 by the way, Thomas Jefferson, Revolutionary, his thoughts on the 0:23:06.577 --> 0:23:10.697 French Revolution, and did he have any regrets? Well, actually, 0:23:10.777 --> 0:23:14.577 Jefferson ended up saying that the reason that the French 0:23:14.617 --> 0:23:17.857 Revolution had been such a failure, and he was essentially 0:23:17.857 --> 0:23:20.737 the last important American to concede that it had been 0:23:20.737 --> 0:23:24.257 a failure, was that he said, they ultimately settled on 0:23:24.297 --> 0:23:28.337