1 00:00:11,657 --> 00:00:14,937 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure 2 00:00:14,937 --> 00:00:17,977 Speaker 1: you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or 3 00:00:17,977 --> 00:00:31,697 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the special edition 4 00:00:31,737 --> 00:00:36,577 Speaker 1: of Holding On. I'm Buck Sexton. Independence Day weekend is here, 5 00:00:36,617 --> 00:00:39,497 Speaker 1: my friends, one of my favorite holidays, right up there 6 00:00:39,577 --> 00:00:43,977 Speaker 1: with Christmas, Thanksgiving definitely top three. And it's a time 7 00:00:44,017 --> 00:00:46,417 Speaker 1: when we can all take a step back and just 8 00:00:46,497 --> 00:00:50,297 Speaker 1: think about how America's awesome and this is the greatest 9 00:00:50,297 --> 00:00:53,417 Speaker 1: country in the world, in fact, in the history of 10 00:00:53,457 --> 00:00:55,897 Speaker 1: the world. And a big part of that awesome as 11 00:00:56,017 --> 00:01:01,257 Speaker 1: comes from our amazing history of presidents. Not all of 12 00:01:01,297 --> 00:01:04,217 Speaker 1: them have been great, obviously, but if there have been 13 00:01:04,297 --> 00:01:11,177 Speaker 1: some tremendous patriots, some geniuses of governance, some titan of 14 00:01:11,217 --> 00:01:13,777 Speaker 1: the polity, and we want to take a moment here 15 00:01:13,817 --> 00:01:16,657 Speaker 1: before you go off for your holiday weekend and just 16 00:01:17,017 --> 00:01:20,417 Speaker 1: celebrate some of the best of the best, their wisdom, 17 00:01:21,337 --> 00:01:25,297 Speaker 1: their ideas, the things that brought this country together and 18 00:01:25,337 --> 00:01:27,897 Speaker 1: have pushed us forward to this point in time where 19 00:01:27,977 --> 00:01:29,977 Speaker 1: despite all of our challenges, all the stuff we talked 20 00:01:29,977 --> 00:01:32,777 Speaker 1: about here on the show, America is still number one. 21 00:01:33,177 --> 00:01:36,537 Speaker 1: And that's something that we should all be pretty darn 22 00:01:36,657 --> 00:01:39,657 Speaker 1: happy about. So let's take a look. For example, George Washington. 23 00:01:39,697 --> 00:01:42,857 Speaker 1: We'll start with number one. Number O oh no, George 24 00:01:42,897 --> 00:01:45,897 Speaker 1: Washington from his farewell address, it is important that the 25 00:01:45,937 --> 00:01:49,457 Speaker 1: habits of thinking in a free country should inspire caution 26 00:01:49,817 --> 00:01:53,977 Speaker 1: in those entrusted with its administration to confine themselves within 27 00:01:54,017 --> 00:01:57,777 Speaker 1: their respective constitutional spears. That's from Washington back in seventeen 28 00:01:57,897 --> 00:02:02,057 Speaker 1: ninety six September of that year. George Washington was amazing, 29 00:02:02,497 --> 00:02:05,057 Speaker 1: and he could have turned himself into a king, as 30 00:02:05,057 --> 00:02:07,377 Speaker 1: we all know, he could have gone even further. Who 31 00:02:07,417 --> 00:02:11,177 Speaker 1: knows how long we could have had presidential even King Washington. 32 00:02:11,337 --> 00:02:15,057 Speaker 1: But he loved this country and he wanted a government 33 00:02:15,537 --> 00:02:20,297 Speaker 1: of by and for the people, not to be replicating 34 00:02:20,657 --> 00:02:24,497 Speaker 1: the monarchy that he had such a critical role in 35 00:02:24,737 --> 00:02:29,377 Speaker 1: overthrowealth pushing off American shore. As I should say, and 36 00:02:29,617 --> 00:02:32,257 Speaker 1: this is obviously one of the greatest presidents we've ever had. 37 00:02:32,257 --> 00:02:34,017 Speaker 1: A lot of people say the greatest, tough to beat 38 00:02:34,137 --> 00:02:36,177 Speaker 1: number one. Not only was he great, he was the first. 39 00:02:36,737 --> 00:02:40,457 Speaker 1: And without him would we even have had this republic 40 00:02:40,497 --> 00:02:43,457 Speaker 1: bestowed to bestowed to all of us. So we're gonna 41 00:02:43,497 --> 00:02:46,537 Speaker 1: talk more about the greatness of George Washington. Here, just 42 00:02:46,537 --> 00:02:49,337 Speaker 1: a little bit of a trip down awesome lane with 43 00:02:49,497 --> 00:02:54,017 Speaker 1: our man George w not Bush, but Washington, and we'll 44 00:02:54,057 --> 00:02:55,937 Speaker 1: have a conversation about him with an expert a little 45 00:02:55,937 --> 00:02:58,137 Speaker 1: bit we also have, of course, you can talk about 46 00:02:58,497 --> 00:03:01,337 Speaker 1: George w also gonna talk about Thomas Jefferson. Right back 47 00:03:01,337 --> 00:03:05,457 Speaker 1: in March of eighteen oh one, Jefferson wrote, a wise 48 00:03:05,537 --> 00:03:08,817 Speaker 1: and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, 49 00:03:09,097 --> 00:03:11,457 Speaker 1: shall leave them otherwise just free to regulate their own 50 00:03:11,497 --> 00:03:14,697 Speaker 1: pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from 51 00:03:14,737 --> 00:03:18,217 Speaker 1: the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. You 52 00:03:18,337 --> 00:03:20,857 Speaker 1: gotta remember, folks, especially in this time when there's endless 53 00:03:20,897 --> 00:03:23,257 Speaker 1: regulation and taxation and a lot of it, it it feels 54 00:03:23,297 --> 00:03:27,537 Speaker 1: like without representation, at least, not worthwhile representation that the 55 00:03:27,577 --> 00:03:32,737 Speaker 1: American founders, of which Jefferson was clearly a giant, they 56 00:03:32,857 --> 00:03:36,897 Speaker 1: understood that the government needs to just do some basic things. 57 00:03:37,017 --> 00:03:41,697 Speaker 1: Keep people from hurting each other illegally, right, keep people 58 00:03:41,817 --> 00:03:45,737 Speaker 1: from injuring one another, and let them do their thing. 59 00:03:45,897 --> 00:03:47,817 Speaker 1: Let the business of the American people be business. I 60 00:03:47,817 --> 00:03:50,977 Speaker 1: think that's actually Calvin Coolidge quote. But nonetheless, Calvin Coolidge 61 00:03:50,977 --> 00:03:54,017 Speaker 1: is a pretty good guy too, and not actually be 62 00:03:54,177 --> 00:03:57,137 Speaker 1: constantly taking so much from the American people that they 63 00:03:57,177 --> 00:04:00,777 Speaker 1: feel like their government is onerous and oppressive. Now that 64 00:04:00,977 --> 00:04:03,537 Speaker 1: was from the founding. You think about this right now, 65 00:04:03,537 --> 00:04:06,777 Speaker 1: with the inflation rate where it is, the Biden administration 66 00:04:07,377 --> 00:04:12,857 Speaker 1: in this state of just termore and constant dissent in 67 00:04:12,977 --> 00:04:14,937 Speaker 1: terms of the polls and just the way people feel 68 00:04:14,937 --> 00:04:18,057 Speaker 1: about the country. Yeah, it feels like they're taking too 69 00:04:18,137 --> 00:04:20,817 Speaker 1: much from us these days. It feels like they've made 70 00:04:20,817 --> 00:04:24,777 Speaker 1: everything more expensive. Remember, inflation is just attacks on working 71 00:04:25,017 --> 00:04:28,817 Speaker 1: people that hurts them more than anybody else. So we 72 00:04:28,817 --> 00:04:31,617 Speaker 1: are going to talk more about Jefferson, the genius of 73 00:04:31,657 --> 00:04:35,657 Speaker 1: Thomas Jefferson. Also got to throw in there. James Madison, 74 00:04:36,417 --> 00:04:38,177 Speaker 1: one of the authors of the Federalist Papers, of course, 75 00:04:38,177 --> 00:04:41,057 Speaker 1: the primary author and Federalists number five. He wrote, if 76 00:04:41,137 --> 00:04:45,097 Speaker 1: angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls 77 00:04:45,097 --> 00:04:48,217 Speaker 1: on government would be necessary. In framing, a government would 78 00:04:48,217 --> 00:04:50,977 Speaker 1: just to be administered by men over men. The great 79 00:04:51,017 --> 00:04:54,737 Speaker 1: difficulty lies in this. You must first enable the govern 80 00:04:54,857 --> 00:04:57,377 Speaker 1: to control the government, and in the next place oblige 81 00:04:57,377 --> 00:05:01,057 Speaker 1: it to control itself. You've got to restrain the Leviathan, 82 00:05:01,137 --> 00:05:04,377 Speaker 1: my friends, it's absolutely critical. You see, our founding fathers 83 00:05:04,417 --> 00:05:08,817 Speaker 1: understood that one of the great travesties of the previous 84 00:05:08,857 --> 00:05:12,617 Speaker 1: centuries in Europe was that you had these monarchs who, 85 00:05:12,857 --> 00:05:15,657 Speaker 1: in different ways, would basically do whatever they want to. 86 00:05:15,897 --> 00:05:19,217 Speaker 1: Right Magna Carta back in twelve fifteen in England was 87 00:05:19,257 --> 00:05:21,377 Speaker 1: an attempt to at least put some rules the road 88 00:05:21,417 --> 00:05:24,617 Speaker 1: in place, but they were often broken, and other countries 89 00:05:24,617 --> 00:05:28,617 Speaker 1: in Europe obviously had no such restraints on the power 90 00:05:28,697 --> 00:05:31,817 Speaker 1: of the monarchy. And you can't live with that level 91 00:05:31,857 --> 00:05:34,937 Speaker 1: of tyranny. You're not a free people. If the government 92 00:05:35,297 --> 00:05:38,377 Speaker 1: can just turn on the oppression mechanism, there's nothing that 93 00:05:38,417 --> 00:05:40,137 Speaker 1: you can do about it. And that's just the way 94 00:05:40,177 --> 00:05:43,297 Speaker 1: that it is. So Madison was saying, look, we want governance, 95 00:05:43,337 --> 00:05:48,217 Speaker 1: but we don't want a governance that has no limitations. 96 00:05:48,337 --> 00:05:50,737 Speaker 1: There have to be clear markers of what the government 97 00:05:50,737 --> 00:05:53,177 Speaker 1: can and cannot do. And now, look, there are a 98 00:05:53,177 --> 00:05:54,497 Speaker 1: lot of president you can throw in the mix. A 99 00:05:54,497 --> 00:05:56,577 Speaker 1: lot of people think and probably gonna talk about Abraham 100 00:05:56,617 --> 00:05:58,777 Speaker 1: Lincoln next. I don't know, some of you probably get 101 00:05:58,777 --> 00:06:01,297 Speaker 1: really excited about Calvin Coolidge. Are other names that might 102 00:06:01,337 --> 00:06:04,537 Speaker 1: come to mind or Democrat viewers maybe FDR, though I'd 103 00:06:04,537 --> 00:06:07,337 Speaker 1: probably argue with them on that one. But Ronald Reagan, 104 00:06:07,577 --> 00:06:10,897 Speaker 1: my friends, Ronald Reagan a guy talk about someone who 105 00:06:10,897 --> 00:06:13,737 Speaker 1: loves freedom and in living memory, was president of the 106 00:06:13,817 --> 00:06:16,337 Speaker 1: United States. You got to think about our man Reagan. 107 00:06:16,417 --> 00:06:18,937 Speaker 1: Here he was back in nineteen eighty nine talking about 108 00:06:18,977 --> 00:06:22,137 Speaker 1: how America is freedom. We've got to do a better 109 00:06:22,257 --> 00:06:26,377 Speaker 1: job of getting across that America is freedom, freedom of speech, 110 00:06:27,017 --> 00:06:31,857 Speaker 1: freedom of religion, freedom of enterprise, and freedom is special 111 00:06:31,897 --> 00:06:37,417 Speaker 1: and rare. It's fragile, it needs production. We could say 112 00:06:37,417 --> 00:06:40,737 Speaker 1: it quite like Dutch. All right, Look, it's Independence Day weekend. 113 00:06:40,897 --> 00:06:42,817 Speaker 1: I know you're thinking about the holiday and everything else. 114 00:06:43,217 --> 00:06:45,617 Speaker 1: Let's just do a little, as I said, trip down 115 00:06:45,657 --> 00:06:49,177 Speaker 1: awesome lane here about freedom, liberty and America with some 116 00:06:49,217 --> 00:06:51,737 Speaker 1: of the greatest presidents we've ever had a little bit 117 00:06:51,777 --> 00:06:55,617 Speaker 1: of a refresher and fresh look at why they were 118 00:06:55,617 --> 00:06:58,097 Speaker 1: so awesome. We'll get into that with some experts coming 119 00:06:58,177 --> 00:07:08,817 Speaker 1: up here withhold the line. I don't know if you 120 00:07:08,817 --> 00:07:10,577 Speaker 1: saw this, but there was a recent story about an 121 00:07:10,577 --> 00:07:12,737 Speaker 1: Arizona real estate agent that found the home she lived 122 00:07:12,737 --> 00:07:15,177 Speaker 1: and was listed for sale. The problem was she wasn't 123 00:07:15,217 --> 00:07:17,577 Speaker 1: selling her home. She was the victim of home title fraud, 124 00:07:17,657 --> 00:07:20,537 Speaker 1: a devastating crime happening all over the country. According to 125 00:07:20,577 --> 00:07:22,857 Speaker 1: the experts at home title lock, the crime is incredibly 126 00:07:22,897 --> 00:07:26,177 Speaker 1: profitable and hard to detect. An identity thief simply creates 127 00:07:26,217 --> 00:07:28,737 Speaker 1: a fake title transfer for your home and refiles as 128 00:07:28,737 --> 00:07:30,817 Speaker 1: the new owner. Then you can take out loans on 129 00:07:30,857 --> 00:07:34,217 Speaker 1: your home or sell it. Typical identity theft services don't 130 00:07:34,217 --> 00:07:37,537 Speaker 1: cover you, and neither there's homeowner's insurance. Home title lock does. 131 00:07:37,977 --> 00:07:40,617 Speaker 1: Home title lock puts a barrier around your home's title 132 00:07:40,697 --> 00:07:43,217 Speaker 1: the instant they detect anyone tampering with your home's title, 133 00:07:43,497 --> 00:07:45,417 Speaker 1: They help shut it down and help get your home 134 00:07:45,457 --> 00:07:47,617 Speaker 1: back in your name. Here's what you should do. Go 135 00:07:47,657 --> 00:07:50,057 Speaker 1: to home title lock dot com and read the testimonials 136 00:07:50,057 --> 00:07:53,737 Speaker 1: from FBI agents and government officials. Then register your address 137 00:07:53,737 --> 00:07:55,497 Speaker 1: to see if you're already a victim and don't even 138 00:07:55,497 --> 00:07:57,537 Speaker 1: know it. When you protect your home, tell them Buck 139 00:07:57,577 --> 00:08:00,777 Speaker 1: sends you to get thirty free days of protection. Hometatlelock 140 00:08:00,857 --> 00:08:13,417 Speaker 1: dot com, hometitlelock dot com. George Washington, the hero of 141 00:08:13,417 --> 00:08:17,137 Speaker 1: the Revolution, was the most admired and beloved American of 142 00:08:17,177 --> 00:08:20,377 Speaker 1: his time. It is only natural that in seventeen eighty nine, 143 00:08:20,417 --> 00:08:22,737 Speaker 1: the nation turned to him to serve as the first 144 00:08:22,777 --> 00:08:26,937 Speaker 1: president under its new constitution. While in office, Washington was 145 00:08:26,977 --> 00:08:29,417 Speaker 1: careful to adhere to the constitution he had sworn to 146 00:08:29,497 --> 00:08:32,337 Speaker 1: protect and established many of the presidents that are still 147 00:08:32,337 --> 00:08:35,337 Speaker 1: observed to this day. In his seventeen ninety six Farewell 148 00:08:35,337 --> 00:08:38,417 Speaker 1: addressed the American people, Washington warned of the dangers of 149 00:08:38,457 --> 00:08:42,017 Speaker 1: a government that acts beyond its constitution, beyond its constitutional authority, 150 00:08:42,457 --> 00:08:45,537 Speaker 1: a quote that's especially relevant today. Here, If in the 151 00:08:45,617 --> 00:08:48,217 Speaker 1: opinion of the people, the distribution or modification of the 152 00:08:48,257 --> 00:08:51,897 Speaker 1: constitutional powers be in any particular wrong, let it be 153 00:08:51,937 --> 00:08:55,617 Speaker 1: corrected by an amendment in the way which the Constitution designates. 154 00:08:55,977 --> 00:08:59,057 Speaker 1: But let there be no change by usurpation. Or though 155 00:08:59,097 --> 00:09:01,897 Speaker 1: this in one instance maybe the instrument of good, it 156 00:09:02,057 --> 00:09:06,857 Speaker 1: is the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed. Yes, Indeed, 157 00:09:07,337 --> 00:09:10,057 Speaker 1: Joman out of gave more insight into America's first president. 158 00:09:10,417 --> 00:09:14,217 Speaker 1: Is another president of the Heritage Foundation, Kevin Roberts. Kevin, 159 00:09:14,257 --> 00:09:16,657 Speaker 1: thanks for being with us, Thanks for having me, Buck, 160 00:09:16,657 --> 00:09:21,217 Speaker 1: It's pleasure. So look, there are some presidents that everybody know, 161 00:09:21,417 --> 00:09:25,737 Speaker 1: every school child knows George Washington, first president, really important. 162 00:09:25,897 --> 00:09:28,617 Speaker 1: You know, he's on some of our money, Our capital's 163 00:09:28,657 --> 00:09:31,897 Speaker 1: named for him. How is this man such a giant? 164 00:09:31,937 --> 00:09:34,017 Speaker 1: I mean, we're going to Independence Day weekend. We're having 165 00:09:34,057 --> 00:09:36,897 Speaker 1: a little raw role Meerica moment here. How did he 166 00:09:36,937 --> 00:09:41,617 Speaker 1: bring it all together? You know, ironically, Buck Washington is 167 00:09:41,657 --> 00:09:45,257 Speaker 1: a giant two hundred and fifty years after he burst 168 00:09:45,297 --> 00:09:48,497 Speaker 1: onto the scene as a young army officer because of 169 00:09:48,497 --> 00:09:50,937 Speaker 1: his humility. I mean, this is a man, if you 170 00:09:51,017 --> 00:09:54,497 Speaker 1: read even a short biography of him, who possessed so 171 00:09:54,537 --> 00:09:58,057 Speaker 1: many human virtues, so many great attributes. You know, I 172 00:09:58,097 --> 00:10:00,017 Speaker 1: could at least speak for myself. If it were me, 173 00:10:00,017 --> 00:10:02,337 Speaker 1: I'd probably be a little arrogant about having all those things. 174 00:10:02,617 --> 00:10:05,057 Speaker 1: He was quite the opposite, And so I think his 175 00:10:05,217 --> 00:10:09,497 Speaker 1: humility actually made him appeal to people. They sort of 176 00:10:09,537 --> 00:10:12,377 Speaker 1: were drawn to want to be led by him. And 177 00:10:12,417 --> 00:10:15,857 Speaker 1: he understood this very important point, which is the virtue 178 00:10:15,857 --> 00:10:19,337 Speaker 1: of virtues, as our founders understood, and that's magnanimity, that 179 00:10:19,457 --> 00:10:23,217 Speaker 1: is aspiring to great things and impairing those two things 180 00:10:23,297 --> 00:10:25,857 Speaker 1: meant that he was willing to sacrifice for the country 181 00:10:25,897 --> 00:10:28,897 Speaker 1: in ways that he and his wife never anticipated doing, 182 00:10:28,937 --> 00:10:31,417 Speaker 1: and for us now in the twenty first century, he 183 00:10:31,497 --> 00:10:34,377 Speaker 1: remains a timeless model of what it means to adhere 184 00:10:34,377 --> 00:10:38,577 Speaker 1: to American values. What do people know to this day 185 00:10:38,657 --> 00:10:42,577 Speaker 1: about about George Washington to the man? You know, I mean, 186 00:10:42,577 --> 00:10:47,497 Speaker 1: there's there's some legends, right, but there's also enough biographical 187 00:10:47,617 --> 00:10:50,417 Speaker 1: record and from the contemporary sources that we should have 188 00:10:50,457 --> 00:10:55,697 Speaker 1: some portrait of him, obviously metaphorically speaking. So what was 189 00:10:55,737 --> 00:10:59,617 Speaker 1: he like? Washington was a man that you wanted to 190 00:10:59,617 --> 00:11:02,017 Speaker 1: spend some time with. We would probably know even more 191 00:11:02,057 --> 00:11:05,897 Speaker 1: about him had it not been that his wife burned 192 00:11:05,977 --> 00:11:08,177 Speaker 1: almost all of the letters that he wrote to her, 193 00:11:08,297 --> 00:11:11,497 Speaker 1: just to make sure that their relationship remained private, even 194 00:11:11,537 --> 00:11:15,657 Speaker 1: for posterity's sake. But because the Washington's were so generous 195 00:11:15,897 --> 00:11:18,537 Speaker 1: and hosting people at their home at Mount Vernon, we 196 00:11:18,617 --> 00:11:20,697 Speaker 1: have a lot of firsthand accounts of what it was 197 00:11:20,777 --> 00:11:24,457 Speaker 1: like to be in his person, and he was generous. 198 00:11:24,777 --> 00:11:28,137 Speaker 1: He was not nearly as quiet as sometimes we portray 199 00:11:28,217 --> 00:11:30,617 Speaker 1: him to be. It isn't that he was as gregarious 200 00:11:30,657 --> 00:11:32,777 Speaker 1: as some of his peers, but he was a very 201 00:11:32,817 --> 00:11:37,497 Speaker 1: good conversationalist. He was extremely well read, He was certainly 202 00:11:37,817 --> 00:11:41,417 Speaker 1: much smarter. He possessed a greater intellect than sometimes the 203 00:11:41,497 --> 00:11:45,377 Speaker 1: contrast with Jefferson and Hamilton might suggest. But the point was, 204 00:11:45,817 --> 00:11:49,217 Speaker 1: you wanted to be at dinner with Washington. You wanted 205 00:11:49,257 --> 00:11:51,697 Speaker 1: if you happen to be an aide to camp or 206 00:11:51,737 --> 00:11:54,297 Speaker 1: a young officer in the Continental Army, you wanted to 207 00:11:54,337 --> 00:11:56,417 Speaker 1: be in his presence. Not because he was going to 208 00:11:56,417 --> 00:12:01,057 Speaker 1: give some sidewinding inspirational speech, but because he would really 209 00:12:01,097 --> 00:12:03,417 Speaker 1: focus on you. He would home in on you as 210 00:12:03,417 --> 00:12:06,737 Speaker 1: a person and come to know you and also inspire 211 00:12:06,777 --> 00:12:09,617 Speaker 1: you in that way that sometimes these more quiet leaders. 212 00:12:09,657 --> 00:12:11,977 Speaker 1: Do you know? He just as I'd sit here describing 213 00:12:12,017 --> 00:12:14,657 Speaker 1: this as a historian, I think this is one of 214 00:12:14,657 --> 00:12:16,737 Speaker 1: the guys I've always wanted to be able to spend 215 00:12:16,737 --> 00:12:20,377 Speaker 1: some time with, if perhaps somehow time travel. We're not fiction. 216 00:12:21,217 --> 00:12:27,577 Speaker 1: And what can you tell us about Washington's for Washington 217 00:12:27,937 --> 00:12:31,177 Speaker 1: becoming a great military leader? I mean, we often be 218 00:12:31,257 --> 00:12:34,097 Speaker 1: first president. A lot of thoughts about the early days 219 00:12:34,217 --> 00:12:37,057 Speaker 1: of the Republic under his time. A lot of people 220 00:12:37,097 --> 00:12:40,417 Speaker 1: think about that. But he had a long and distor 221 00:12:40,457 --> 00:12:44,017 Speaker 1: He had a very distinguished, certainly and reasonably long military 222 00:12:44,057 --> 00:12:48,097 Speaker 1: career as well. Yeah, Washington cut his teeth as a 223 00:12:48,177 --> 00:12:51,377 Speaker 1: young military officer because he was willing to go on 224 00:12:51,457 --> 00:12:55,057 Speaker 1: some pretty daring horseback raids. In fact, he got into 225 00:12:55,057 --> 00:12:57,657 Speaker 1: trouble during the French and Indian War as a result 226 00:12:57,697 --> 00:12:59,857 Speaker 1: of doing that. But there are a couple of attributes 227 00:12:59,937 --> 00:13:04,457 Speaker 1: of Washington as a military leader that military historians have highlighted. 228 00:13:04,697 --> 00:13:08,217 Speaker 1: The first is Washington is a very highly regarded tactician. 229 00:13:08,657 --> 00:13:11,457 Speaker 1: You know, as it turns out, as you know, Washington 230 00:13:11,537 --> 00:13:13,817 Speaker 1: had a lot of practice in the early years of 231 00:13:13,817 --> 00:13:17,097 Speaker 1: the Revolution using the tactic of retreat. You know, as 232 00:13:17,097 --> 00:13:19,977 Speaker 1: I say that, students might say, well, gosh, he must 233 00:13:19,977 --> 00:13:23,097 Speaker 1: have been awful. No, actually it was rather brilliant because, 234 00:13:23,377 --> 00:13:27,137 Speaker 1: as many people know, the Condinal Army, almost routinely, in 235 00:13:27,297 --> 00:13:31,537 Speaker 1: contrast with the British Army, was underresourced. It was undermanned, 236 00:13:31,857 --> 00:13:34,097 Speaker 1: and he had to be very prudent about the number 237 00:13:34,097 --> 00:13:36,097 Speaker 1: of men and the amount of resources he had, and 238 00:13:36,137 --> 00:13:39,977 Speaker 1: so he developed a very efficient way of abandoning a 239 00:13:40,017 --> 00:13:43,617 Speaker 1: battlefield if it was not so strategically important to live 240 00:13:43,737 --> 00:13:46,297 Speaker 1: to fight another day. And it leads me to the 241 00:13:46,337 --> 00:13:49,737 Speaker 1: second attribute of Washington as a military leader that historians 242 00:13:49,737 --> 00:13:52,937 Speaker 1: have recognized and even cell painted, and it is his 243 00:13:53,097 --> 00:13:56,937 Speaker 1: understanding that what happened on the battlefield had a huge 244 00:13:57,097 --> 00:14:00,257 Speaker 1: impact on the home front. This is particularly true during 245 00:14:00,297 --> 00:14:03,737 Speaker 1: the British New York campaign in seventeen seventy six. In 246 00:14:03,777 --> 00:14:06,897 Speaker 1: other words, he understood he had to minimize losses and 247 00:14:06,897 --> 00:14:09,937 Speaker 1: he had to find those rare opportunities for his under 248 00:14:10,097 --> 00:14:13,377 Speaker 1: manned army to find a tactical victory, which, of course 249 00:14:13,417 --> 00:14:16,697 Speaker 1: he did enough early in the war to keep the 250 00:14:16,737 --> 00:14:20,697 Speaker 1: morale at home going. This is a very underappreciated attribute 251 00:14:20,897 --> 00:14:24,657 Speaker 1: of a military leader. That's particularly important in a republic 252 00:14:24,737 --> 00:14:28,497 Speaker 1: where sustaining that morale, that will, that popular will for 253 00:14:28,577 --> 00:14:31,937 Speaker 1: support of the cause is always difficult. And what were 254 00:14:31,937 --> 00:14:34,457 Speaker 1: some of the most important things for everyone at home 255 00:14:35,097 --> 00:14:41,257 Speaker 1: when it came to Washington's role in the creation of 256 00:14:41,297 --> 00:14:44,337 Speaker 1: this new republic, I mean more on the political side. Now, 257 00:14:44,777 --> 00:14:47,377 Speaker 1: people often think about how well Washington could have made 258 00:14:47,417 --> 00:14:50,497 Speaker 1: himself king, right, but he decided that he didn't want that. 259 00:14:50,577 --> 00:14:54,377 Speaker 1: To your point about humility, what should everyone know? Well, 260 00:14:54,657 --> 00:14:58,137 Speaker 1: we cannot overstate that enough. I mean, it was very possible, 261 00:14:58,177 --> 00:15:01,617 Speaker 1: it was politically plausible, if not likely, that if Washington 262 00:15:01,817 --> 00:15:05,017 Speaker 1: wanted to be king or wanted to serve a limitless 263 00:15:05,097 --> 00:15:07,377 Speaker 1: number of terms as president he could have. He was 264 00:15:07,457 --> 00:15:10,297 Speaker 1: that popular. I mean, the Republic, the young Republic, owed 265 00:15:10,377 --> 00:15:12,697 Speaker 1: that much debt to him for his leadership. And so 266 00:15:12,777 --> 00:15:15,057 Speaker 1: once again it comes back to his humility, even as 267 00:15:15,097 --> 00:15:18,657 Speaker 1: a very popular political persona. But the second thing is 268 00:15:18,977 --> 00:15:22,217 Speaker 1: he was an excellent judge of character and excellent judge 269 00:15:22,257 --> 00:15:25,057 Speaker 1: of talent. And so just as he assembled the right 270 00:15:25,097 --> 00:15:28,697 Speaker 1: combination of generals during the war, he assembled what I 271 00:15:28,737 --> 00:15:32,017 Speaker 1: think remains the greatest cabinet of all of our president 272 00:15:32,257 --> 00:15:35,137 Speaker 1: presidential administrations in history. I think about the talent the 273 00:15:35,217 --> 00:15:38,337 Speaker 1: virtue of those men that you know, the first secretaries 274 00:15:38,337 --> 00:15:42,457 Speaker 1: of the various federal departments. Washington assembled them in a 275 00:15:42,497 --> 00:15:45,737 Speaker 1: way that recognized there were some political differences among them, 276 00:15:45,777 --> 00:15:49,177 Speaker 1: as we often discussed in history classes, but they also 277 00:15:49,257 --> 00:15:51,777 Speaker 1: knew that they were forging a new republic. And it 278 00:15:52,177 --> 00:15:56,697 Speaker 1: leads me to conclude my celebration of his political acumen 279 00:15:56,737 --> 00:16:01,497 Speaker 1: by saying, he also recognized that America would be thrown 280 00:16:01,537 --> 00:16:04,977 Speaker 1: into some political tension. And obviously, after he left office, 281 00:16:05,017 --> 00:16:08,977 Speaker 1: and especially after he died, America did descend, I might say, 282 00:16:09,017 --> 00:16:12,297 Speaker 1: into its two party political system. But what Washington was 283 00:16:12,337 --> 00:16:14,977 Speaker 1: able to do for the better part of a decade 284 00:16:15,457 --> 00:16:19,657 Speaker 1: was keep that those factions from developing and focused instead 285 00:16:19,697 --> 00:16:22,937 Speaker 1: on the economic and political and social health of the country. 286 00:16:23,097 --> 00:16:25,537 Speaker 1: Had he not done that, Buck, and had we descended 287 00:16:25,617 --> 00:16:29,337 Speaker 1: into Washington being leader of one political party or another, 288 00:16:29,697 --> 00:16:31,737 Speaker 1: I'm not sure America would have been able to win 289 00:16:31,777 --> 00:16:34,377 Speaker 1: its next major conflict with the British, the War of 290 00:16:34,377 --> 00:16:39,577 Speaker 1: eighteen twelve. Kevin, appreciate you educating us all for Independence 291 00:16:39,657 --> 00:16:42,337 Speaker 1: Day weekend on Washington. We're gonna talk you a little 292 00:16:42,377 --> 00:16:45,977 Speaker 1: later about another great president, So stay with us. Okay, 293 00:16:47,817 --> 00:16:50,977 Speaker 1: after the break, Historian Kevin Gutzman joins us to help 294 00:16:51,017 --> 00:16:53,857 Speaker 1: examine the author of the Declaration of Independence and arguably 295 00:16:53,857 --> 00:16:57,697 Speaker 1: America's most radical president in some ways, Thomas Jefferson, Stay 296 00:16:57,737 --> 00:17:08,497 Speaker 1: with us. A lot of companies promise that your privacy 297 00:17:08,577 --> 00:17:10,937 Speaker 1: is guaranteed, but we know that's not true. That's why 298 00:17:11,017 --> 00:17:14,257 Speaker 1: you need a new privacy and cybersecurity application tool called Secure. 299 00:17:14,697 --> 00:17:18,497 Speaker 1: It spelled SEK. 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As we've been discussing, America has had a 315 00:18:12,217 --> 00:18:15,017 Speaker 1: share of presidents who were dedicated to the ideals of liberty, 316 00:18:15,057 --> 00:18:17,457 Speaker 1: but few, if any, are as closely associated with that 317 00:18:17,537 --> 00:18:21,537 Speaker 1: ideal as our third President, Thomas Jefferson, as the primary 318 00:18:21,577 --> 00:18:23,977 Speaker 1: author of the Declaration of Independence. It was Jefferson who's 319 00:18:24,017 --> 00:18:26,417 Speaker 1: credited with the immortal words that serves the bedrock of 320 00:18:26,417 --> 00:18:29,457 Speaker 1: American liberty. We hold these truths to be self evident, 321 00:18:29,537 --> 00:18:32,137 Speaker 1: that all men are created equal, they are endowed by 322 00:18:32,137 --> 00:18:35,977 Speaker 1: their creator with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty, 323 00:18:36,017 --> 00:18:39,497 Speaker 1: and the pursuit of happiness. They're just what kind of 324 00:18:39,697 --> 00:18:42,657 Speaker 1: president was Thomas Jefferson doing? To me? From We're inside 325 00:18:42,657 --> 00:18:45,577 Speaker 1: as pressor of History at Western connect State University, an 326 00:18:45,697 --> 00:18:50,177 Speaker 1: author of Thomas Jefferson Revolutionary A Radical Struggle to Remake America, 327 00:18:50,297 --> 00:18:54,017 Speaker 1: Kevin GutsMan, Kevin, thanks for being with us. I mean 328 00:18:54,017 --> 00:18:57,257 Speaker 1: to be here, Buck. So just when you first sit 329 00:18:57,297 --> 00:18:59,897 Speaker 1: down and you're speaking to students and you want to 330 00:18:59,897 --> 00:19:02,217 Speaker 1: give them a sense, I mean, we're going into the 331 00:19:02,257 --> 00:19:04,817 Speaker 1: Independence Day weekend now people are thinking a lot about America, 332 00:19:04,817 --> 00:19:11,377 Speaker 1: our history, the greatness of Jefferson. Where do you begin? Well, wow, 333 00:19:11,577 --> 00:19:15,417 Speaker 1: he stood for American independence. He stood for the independence 334 00:19:15,457 --> 00:19:20,977 Speaker 1: of the individual. Is guiding principle in American politics was federalism, 335 00:19:21,137 --> 00:19:25,057 Speaker 1: or the idea of decentralization. He said that when it 336 00:19:25,097 --> 00:19:27,697 Speaker 1: came to conflicts between the federal government of the states, 337 00:19:27,697 --> 00:19:30,857 Speaker 1: he would favor the states. Within a state, he would 338 00:19:30,857 --> 00:19:33,097 Speaker 1: tend to favor the counties, and within a county he 339 00:19:33,097 --> 00:19:35,177 Speaker 1: would favor what he called wards, what we would think 340 00:19:35,217 --> 00:19:38,577 Speaker 1: of his precincts. So he had the idea that virtually 341 00:19:38,617 --> 00:19:40,777 Speaker 1: nobody would be in a position like his and which 342 00:19:40,817 --> 00:19:45,457 Speaker 1: he could influence national policy directly. And so if the 343 00:19:45,457 --> 00:19:48,057 Speaker 1: common men were going to help to shape his own 344 00:19:48,097 --> 00:19:52,297 Speaker 1: life as much as feasible, government should be as decentralized 345 00:19:52,337 --> 00:19:56,577 Speaker 1: as practicable. And that's what he argued for while he 346 00:19:56,617 --> 00:19:59,297 Speaker 1: was in Congress, when he was in the cabinet, and 347 00:19:59,337 --> 00:20:04,817 Speaker 1: ultimately as president. And there were many facets did Jefferson right? 348 00:20:04,857 --> 00:20:08,457 Speaker 1: I mean, he obviously is known as one of the 349 00:20:08,777 --> 00:20:13,577 Speaker 1: primary found fathers. He was also an autodidact on a 350 00:20:13,657 --> 00:20:15,937 Speaker 1: number of issues, right he was. He was an inventor. 351 00:20:15,937 --> 00:20:18,017 Speaker 1: He had I mean to tell everyone a little bit 352 00:20:18,057 --> 00:20:21,257 Speaker 1: about some of his areas of exploration. Some of the 353 00:20:21,297 --> 00:20:24,817 Speaker 1: things that he did that aren't you know, aren't necessarily 354 00:20:25,137 --> 00:20:27,057 Speaker 1: the first things that come to mind. I mean about 355 00:20:27,057 --> 00:20:30,217 Speaker 1: my understanding is he was really into plants and astronomy 356 00:20:30,337 --> 00:20:34,777 Speaker 1: and why making and all kinds of things. Right well, 357 00:20:34,817 --> 00:20:38,497 Speaker 1: he wanted to be o'car in every area of science. 358 00:20:38,737 --> 00:20:42,937 Speaker 1: So he was a path breaking linguist. He was highly 359 00:20:42,977 --> 00:20:46,937 Speaker 1: interested in anthropology. He was an ethno historian. He was 360 00:20:47,017 --> 00:20:51,777 Speaker 1: the first person who conducted a scientific archaeological excavation in 361 00:20:52,017 --> 00:20:55,457 Speaker 1: North America. In fact, a colleague of mine tells me 362 00:20:55,537 --> 00:21:00,537 Speaker 1: that that excavation, the methods he used remained current among 363 00:21:00,657 --> 00:21:05,097 Speaker 1: archaeologists for over a century after Jefferson conducted it. He 364 00:21:05,177 --> 00:21:08,777 Speaker 1: wrote the most important American book of the eighteenth century, 365 00:21:09,097 --> 00:21:13,617 Speaker 1: and there he was a leading architect, and in fact 366 00:21:14,057 --> 00:21:16,697 Speaker 1: he's the fellow who's most responsible for the fact that 367 00:21:16,737 --> 00:21:20,937 Speaker 1: American public buildings tend to be highly influenced by Greek 368 00:21:20,977 --> 00:21:25,457 Speaker 1: and Roman architecture. He also had the idea that America 369 00:21:25,497 --> 00:21:29,497 Speaker 1: should have a decimal based coinage system. In fact, that 370 00:21:29,537 --> 00:21:32,377 Speaker 1: was ours was the first one of such in the world, 371 00:21:32,417 --> 00:21:35,737 Speaker 1: and in my memory even finally the British decided they 372 00:21:35,737 --> 00:21:39,777 Speaker 1: should have a decimal coinage system too. So there is 373 00:21:40,137 --> 00:21:45,457 Speaker 1: Jefferson's influence basically everywhere you want to look. And now 374 00:21:45,537 --> 00:21:50,057 Speaker 1: talk to me a bit about the philosophical and personal 375 00:21:51,377 --> 00:21:55,697 Speaker 1: debate between what I guess you could call Jeffersonianism and Hamiltonianism. 376 00:21:57,217 --> 00:22:02,217 Speaker 1: Well I mentioned Jefferson's primary political principle was this idea 377 00:22:02,257 --> 00:22:06,177 Speaker 1: of decentralization, that if you wanted to elevate the role 378 00:22:06,257 --> 00:22:09,337 Speaker 1: of the common man in making his community and making 379 00:22:09,377 --> 00:22:12,137 Speaker 1: his life, had to ensure that the power of government 380 00:22:12,337 --> 00:22:18,497 Speaker 1: was as localized as possible. Hamilton had essentially the opposite idea. 381 00:22:18,617 --> 00:22:21,937 Speaker 1: He thought it was extremely important for the United States 382 00:22:21,977 --> 00:22:24,177 Speaker 1: to be a powerful country on the world stage, and 383 00:22:24,257 --> 00:22:29,097 Speaker 1: so worked energetically to create the US Constitution. And then 384 00:22:29,257 --> 00:22:33,097 Speaker 1: once the Washington administration came and he was Treasury Secretary, 385 00:22:33,577 --> 00:22:37,777 Speaker 1: he worked indefatigably to try to centralize authority, to try 386 00:22:37,777 --> 00:22:40,257 Speaker 1: to make the federal authority as strong as it could be, 387 00:22:40,297 --> 00:22:42,977 Speaker 1: and this of course set the stage for the epic 388 00:22:43,017 --> 00:22:46,737 Speaker 1: clash between the two of them in the cabinet. Now, 389 00:22:46,777 --> 00:22:49,177 Speaker 1: what can you tell us about Jefferson's thoughts on the 390 00:22:49,217 --> 00:22:52,817 Speaker 1: French Revolution and perhaps some of the areas where if 391 00:22:52,817 --> 00:22:54,617 Speaker 1: he had seen where things were going, he might have 392 00:22:54,617 --> 00:22:56,497 Speaker 1: fought a little differently, I mean, on the cover of 393 00:22:56,497 --> 00:23:00,737 Speaker 1: your book, as Jefferson, the revolutionary American Revolution ended up 394 00:23:00,817 --> 00:23:03,737 Speaker 1: quite differently from the French Revolution. There's the book again, 395 00:23:03,777 --> 00:23:06,577 Speaker 1: by the way, Thomas Jefferson, Revolutionary, his thoughts on the 396 00:23:06,577 --> 00:23:10,697 Speaker 1: French Revolution, and did he have any regrets? Well, actually, 397 00:23:10,777 --> 00:23:14,577 Speaker 1: Jefferson ended up saying that the reason that the French 398 00:23:14,617 --> 00:23:17,857 Speaker 1: Revolution had been such a failure, and he was essentially 399 00:23:17,857 --> 00:23:20,737 Speaker 1: the last important American to concede that it had been 400 00:23:20,737 --> 00:23:24,257 Speaker 1: a failure, was that he said, they ultimately settled on 401 00:23:24,297 --> 00:23:28,337 Speaker 1: the principle of and he used the French unadvisible, or 402 00:23:28,497 --> 00:23:33,777 Speaker 1: we would say one nation indivisible. So he thought the 403 00:23:33,817 --> 00:23:37,217 Speaker 1: problem that the French had come to was that their 404 00:23:37,457 --> 00:23:41,217 Speaker 1: National Assembly at the beginning of the revolution insisted we 405 00:23:41,377 --> 00:23:44,777 Speaker 1: are the nation, and so they eliminated all the internal 406 00:23:44,777 --> 00:23:49,697 Speaker 1: boundaries of France and said the administrative, the local, more 407 00:23:49,817 --> 00:23:52,097 Speaker 1: local levels of government are going to exist for the 408 00:23:52,137 --> 00:23:56,337 Speaker 1: administrative convenience of the center. To Jefferson, looked like a 409 00:23:56,377 --> 00:24:00,617 Speaker 1: reflection of Hamiltonianism, and he thought this was the reason 410 00:24:00,697 --> 00:24:05,057 Speaker 1: why it had ended in the dictatorship. So, on one hand, 411 00:24:05,537 --> 00:24:08,857 Speaker 1: Jefferson had been very hopeful about the French Revolution because 412 00:24:09,257 --> 00:24:12,137 Speaker 1: in its early he was involved in drafting the French 413 00:24:12,177 --> 00:24:14,857 Speaker 1: Declaration of Rights of Man and Citizen, and many of 414 00:24:14,937 --> 00:24:18,897 Speaker 1: his acquaintances from the American Revolution, French officers who had 415 00:24:18,937 --> 00:24:21,577 Speaker 1: been here and fought for the United States, ended up 416 00:24:21,577 --> 00:24:23,937 Speaker 1: being leaders in the early days of the French Revolution. 417 00:24:24,577 --> 00:24:29,537 Speaker 1: But again, of course it failed, and he thought the 418 00:24:29,577 --> 00:24:32,337 Speaker 1: main problem was essentially that the French had not seen 419 00:24:32,457 --> 00:24:36,057 Speaker 1: his own personal primary principle as being as important as 420 00:24:36,097 --> 00:24:39,257 Speaker 1: it was to him. And if you're just looking at 421 00:24:39,697 --> 00:24:42,897 Speaker 1: what Jefferson. Now, there's of course what he wrote as 422 00:24:42,937 --> 00:24:47,777 Speaker 1: part of the American founding, American independence movement, and his 423 00:24:48,417 --> 00:24:50,217 Speaker 1: role as an intellectual giant and all of that. But 424 00:24:50,257 --> 00:24:54,417 Speaker 1: if you were looking more specifically at his achievements as president, 425 00:24:54,497 --> 00:24:56,497 Speaker 1: what would be some of the top things that come 426 00:24:56,497 --> 00:24:59,297 Speaker 1: to mind. Well, the most important thing, of course, this 427 00:24:59,337 --> 00:25:02,457 Speaker 1: is Louisiana Purchase, which doubled the size of the United States. 428 00:25:03,137 --> 00:25:07,377 Speaker 1: He also was responsible for the Voyage of Discovery, or 429 00:25:07,377 --> 00:25:10,457 Speaker 1: what's more commonly called the Lewis and Clark Expedition, which 430 00:25:10,897 --> 00:25:15,257 Speaker 1: traced a path from the Mississippi all the way to 431 00:25:15,297 --> 00:25:18,377 Speaker 1: the Pacific, which nowadays we think of as you know, 432 00:25:18,377 --> 00:25:21,737 Speaker 1: that's pretty pedestrian, but at the time people really had 433 00:25:21,817 --> 00:25:24,697 Speaker 1: no idea what was out there. And Jefferson was the 434 00:25:24,737 --> 00:25:26,897 Speaker 1: one who was responsible for the fact that Lewis and 435 00:25:26,937 --> 00:25:29,537 Speaker 1: Clark made their way to what is now Oregon, staked 436 00:25:29,577 --> 00:25:33,697 Speaker 1: an American claim there, and made America a transcontinental country. 437 00:25:33,897 --> 00:25:37,977 Speaker 1: So these are the most important things. He also, well 438 00:25:37,777 --> 00:25:40,817 Speaker 1: he might have contested my appraisal, because he also was 439 00:25:40,857 --> 00:25:44,537 Speaker 1: the one responsible for the program that ultimately resulted in 440 00:25:44,897 --> 00:25:48,017 Speaker 1: paying off the American federal debt completely in the eighteen 441 00:25:48,097 --> 00:25:51,657 Speaker 1: thirty five people hear that Andrew Jackson paid off the debt, 442 00:25:51,937 --> 00:25:55,137 Speaker 1: He's responsible for that. Actually, Andrew Jackson happened to be 443 00:25:55,177 --> 00:25:59,017 Speaker 1: the president who was in office when Albert Gallatin, says, 444 00:25:59,097 --> 00:26:03,417 Speaker 1: Jefferson's treasury secretaries planned for paying off the debt came 445 00:26:03,457 --> 00:26:06,017 Speaker 1: to fruition. It was paid off on the day that 446 00:26:06,097 --> 00:26:08,977 Speaker 1: it was scheduled to be paid off during the Jefferson administration. 447 00:26:09,137 --> 00:26:14,337 Speaker 1: So that was also extremely important to Jefferson. And he 448 00:26:14,337 --> 00:26:20,097 Speaker 1: would have said that the ultimate collapse of the Federalist Party, 449 00:26:20,137 --> 00:26:25,777 Speaker 1: the virtual disappearance of Alexander Hamilton's party during Jefferson's lifetime, 450 00:26:25,977 --> 00:26:31,217 Speaker 1: was a vindication of Jefferson's arguments that Americans were essentially 451 00:26:31,217 --> 00:26:34,817 Speaker 1: all Republicans, famously set in his first inaugural address. We've 452 00:26:34,817 --> 00:26:37,417 Speaker 1: called by different names brethren of the same principle, where 453 00:26:37,457 --> 00:26:42,137 Speaker 1: all Republicans were all Federalists. But really he thought that 454 00:26:42,217 --> 00:26:46,977 Speaker 1: Americans generally were all Jeffersonians, and of course he thought 455 00:26:46,977 --> 00:26:49,657 Speaker 1: he had been vindicated by the disappearance of Hamilton's party 456 00:26:49,657 --> 00:26:53,537 Speaker 1: in his lifetime. Kevin, stay right with us. We'll be 457 00:26:53,577 --> 00:26:56,977 Speaker 1: back with more here. Because while Thomas Jefferson was the 458 00:26:57,057 --> 00:27:00,577 Speaker 1: genius behind the Declaration of Independence. America's fourth president was 459 00:27:00,657 --> 00:27:03,497 Speaker 1: argued to the most prominent proponent of the nation's other 460 00:27:03,777 --> 00:27:06,337 Speaker 1: founding document, the United States Constitution. We'd come back with 461 00:27:06,537 --> 00:27:09,377 Speaker 1: take a closer look at America's fourth president, James Madison, 462 00:27:09,457 --> 00:27:28,697 Speaker 1: stay with us. He's called the father of the Constitution. 463 00:27:28,777 --> 00:27:31,817 Speaker 1: America's fourth president, James Madison, played a key role in 464 00:27:31,857 --> 00:27:35,017 Speaker 1: the adoption of the United States Constitution, contributing not only 465 00:27:35,057 --> 00:27:38,457 Speaker 1: to its drafting, but authoring twenty nine to the Federalist 466 00:27:38,497 --> 00:27:41,137 Speaker 1: Papers in its defense. In his later years, Madison would 467 00:27:41,137 --> 00:27:43,537 Speaker 1: look back on the nation for which he'd fought and remarked, 468 00:27:43,937 --> 00:27:47,377 Speaker 1: the happy union of these states is a wonder, their constitution, 469 00:27:47,497 --> 00:27:51,137 Speaker 1: a miracle, their example, the hope of liberty throughout the world. 470 00:27:51,497 --> 00:27:54,377 Speaker 1: Joy once again. His historian and author of James Madison 471 00:27:54,377 --> 00:27:57,737 Speaker 1: and the Making of America, Kevin GutsMan, Kevin effects so 472 00:27:57,857 --> 00:28:03,937 Speaker 1: much happy to be here. So you know, there's Washington, 473 00:28:04,017 --> 00:28:08,857 Speaker 1: there's Jefferson. There's some presidents whose names come with so 474 00:28:08,977 --> 00:28:12,977 Speaker 1: much more cultural attention. And I think you know if 475 00:28:13,017 --> 00:28:16,257 Speaker 1: you ask, if you ask any third grader who George 476 00:28:16,297 --> 00:28:19,217 Speaker 1: Washington is, well, they know right, you ask them who 477 00:28:19,297 --> 00:28:23,097 Speaker 1: James Madison is, they'll probably get it, but they won't 478 00:28:23,137 --> 00:28:25,497 Speaker 1: have that much to say about it. Maybe we can 479 00:28:25,617 --> 00:28:28,257 Speaker 1: change a little bit of that. Now, what do people 480 00:28:28,297 --> 00:28:31,777 Speaker 1: need to know about James Madison His role in the 481 00:28:31,817 --> 00:28:34,857 Speaker 1: formation of our country are founding documents, and of course 482 00:28:34,897 --> 00:28:38,577 Speaker 1: we'll talk about what he did as president. Well, the 483 00:28:38,617 --> 00:28:41,937 Speaker 1: first really significant thing he did is that, as twenty 484 00:28:41,937 --> 00:28:44,217 Speaker 1: five year old man and the youngest man in the room, 485 00:28:44,297 --> 00:28:49,577 Speaker 1: he was responsible for including the principle of free exercise 486 00:28:49,617 --> 00:28:52,537 Speaker 1: of religion in the Virginia Declaration of Rights of seventeen 487 00:28:52,617 --> 00:28:56,737 Speaker 1: seventy six. So that was the first American Declaration of Rights, 488 00:28:57,377 --> 00:29:01,497 Speaker 1: and Virginia, in adopting this principle, became the first officially 489 00:29:01,657 --> 00:29:05,737 Speaker 1: secular government in the history of the world. If Madison, 490 00:29:05,777 --> 00:29:07,777 Speaker 1: I think, had died at that point, he would still 491 00:29:07,777 --> 00:29:10,537 Speaker 1: be among the couple dozen most important minimer in history 492 00:29:10,657 --> 00:29:14,097 Speaker 1: twenty five years old. He also is the chief figure 493 00:29:14,177 --> 00:29:16,217 Speaker 1: responsible for the fact that there ended up being the 494 00:29:16,257 --> 00:29:19,977 Speaker 1: Philadelphia Convention in summer of seventeen eighty seven, in which 495 00:29:20,097 --> 00:29:22,817 Speaker 1: delegates from twelve states drafted what we now know as 496 00:29:22,817 --> 00:29:26,617 Speaker 1: the United States Constitution. Madison had been one of the 497 00:29:26,617 --> 00:29:29,337 Speaker 1: people who had agitated for that, And then he had 498 00:29:29,377 --> 00:29:34,817 Speaker 1: also persuaded his fellow Virginia delegates to the Philadelphia Convention 499 00:29:34,857 --> 00:29:38,097 Speaker 1: to prepare what came to be known as the Virginia Plan, 500 00:29:38,257 --> 00:29:41,337 Speaker 1: which was an outline of a constitution which they presented 501 00:29:41,337 --> 00:29:43,937 Speaker 1: in the Philadelphia Convention. It became a kind of basis 502 00:29:43,977 --> 00:29:47,977 Speaker 1: of debate. So it's not true that Madison drafted the constitution. 503 00:29:48,577 --> 00:29:52,537 Speaker 1: About half of the proposals in his Virginia Plan were 504 00:29:52,537 --> 00:29:56,737 Speaker 1: not included in the final constitution, but key ones like 505 00:29:57,457 --> 00:30:03,097 Speaker 1: having proportional representation by population in one house, having population 506 00:30:03,217 --> 00:30:07,977 Speaker 1: be reflected in the electoral college, having the new Congress 507 00:30:08,017 --> 00:30:12,017 Speaker 1: have power to attacks, these were all Madison's ideas that 508 00:30:12,137 --> 00:30:14,977 Speaker 1: ended up being in the Constitution. So he's extremely important 509 00:30:14,977 --> 00:30:17,697 Speaker 1: for that reason too. And finally, or another thing that's 510 00:30:17,697 --> 00:30:20,817 Speaker 1: really important about him is that because he had been 511 00:30:20,897 --> 00:30:24,457 Speaker 1: chasened by division in Virginia over whether to agree to 512 00:30:24,497 --> 00:30:29,737 Speaker 1: the Constitution, in the ratification campaign that followed the Philadelphia Convention, 513 00:30:30,177 --> 00:30:33,457 Speaker 1: Madison was persuaded that there needed to be amendments to 514 00:30:33,497 --> 00:30:36,457 Speaker 1: the Constitution. So he's the fellow who in the first 515 00:30:36,577 --> 00:30:39,257 Speaker 1: Federal Congress proposed what came to be called the Bill 516 00:30:39,297 --> 00:30:43,977 Speaker 1: of Rights, and ultimately, of course, Congress referred to twelve 517 00:30:44,577 --> 00:30:47,697 Speaker 1: proposed amendments to the States for the ratification in seventeen 518 00:30:47,737 --> 00:30:52,177 Speaker 1: eighty nine. Ten of those were ratified in seventeen ninety one. 519 00:30:52,497 --> 00:30:54,817 Speaker 1: Those became the first ten amendments, and then another one 520 00:30:54,817 --> 00:30:58,137 Speaker 1: of those twelve was ratified in nineteen ninety two, so 521 00:30:58,177 --> 00:31:01,017 Speaker 1: it's the most recent amendment. The twenty seventh Amendment was 522 00:31:01,057 --> 00:31:05,177 Speaker 1: also James Madison's handiwork. There are various other things he did, 523 00:31:05,177 --> 00:31:07,977 Speaker 1: but I think those are the most important. What do 524 00:31:08,097 --> 00:31:11,057 Speaker 1: we know about him as a man? I mean, what 525 00:31:11,097 --> 00:31:13,417 Speaker 1: could we say about We have a good sense of 526 00:31:13,577 --> 00:31:18,657 Speaker 1: his temperament. Which of the Founding fathers, whom among the 527 00:31:18,657 --> 00:31:25,257 Speaker 1: Founding fathers was he close to? Was he audiologically allied to? Well? 528 00:31:25,297 --> 00:31:27,977 Speaker 1: He and Thomas Jefferson were literally each other's best friends 529 00:31:27,977 --> 00:31:30,657 Speaker 1: in the world. So the two of them were the 530 00:31:30,737 --> 00:31:34,217 Speaker 1: closest of political allies. That tandem is the most important 531 00:31:34,217 --> 00:31:38,177 Speaker 1: in American history. They had most of their leading principles 532 00:31:38,217 --> 00:31:42,217 Speaker 1: in common. He also, from time to time had temporary 533 00:31:42,857 --> 00:31:48,137 Speaker 1: alignments with Robert Morris, who was the Minister for Finance, 534 00:31:48,177 --> 00:31:53,817 Speaker 1: the Secretary for finance during the Confederation, with President Washington 535 00:31:54,177 --> 00:31:57,537 Speaker 1: both during the war and then during the first Congress 536 00:31:57,617 --> 00:32:01,497 Speaker 1: under the new Constitution, and of course with Alexander Hamilton, 537 00:32:01,657 --> 00:32:04,737 Speaker 1: both in having the Philadelphia Convention occur and then in 538 00:32:04,897 --> 00:32:09,257 Speaker 1: arguing that the constitution it produced ought to be ratified. Madison, 539 00:32:09,577 --> 00:32:12,297 Speaker 1: as far as his personality, who was a quiet fellow. 540 00:32:12,377 --> 00:32:15,737 Speaker 1: He was bookish. If he found himself in a crowd, 541 00:32:15,777 --> 00:32:17,457 Speaker 1: he might stand in the corner and talk to a 542 00:32:17,457 --> 00:32:20,657 Speaker 1: couple of other people. He was not the kind of 543 00:32:20,697 --> 00:32:24,097 Speaker 1: guy who was a hail fellow well met, although supposedly 544 00:32:24,137 --> 00:32:26,577 Speaker 1: he was good at kind of friendly repartee in a 545 00:32:26,617 --> 00:32:32,857 Speaker 1: small group. But he's also still today the smallest person 546 00:32:32,897 --> 00:32:35,617 Speaker 1: who's ever been president. So the fact that he was 547 00:32:35,737 --> 00:32:39,657 Speaker 1: kind of shy and retiring is not surprising from that 548 00:32:39,697 --> 00:32:42,897 Speaker 1: point of view and just looking at his actual time 549 00:32:43,017 --> 00:32:47,457 Speaker 1: in office, unless the role he played, the huge role 550 00:32:47,457 --> 00:32:51,897 Speaker 1: he played in the Federalist papers, in writing the founding 551 00:32:51,937 --> 00:32:55,417 Speaker 1: documents and the philosophy behind it. He's the fourth president. 552 00:32:55,457 --> 00:32:57,297 Speaker 1: What did he get done? What were the biggest issues? 553 00:32:57,337 --> 00:33:00,857 Speaker 1: What do people need to know? Ah? Well, I think 554 00:33:00,937 --> 00:33:05,097 Speaker 1: the most important factor about Madison's presidency is that his 555 00:33:05,217 --> 00:33:08,577 Speaker 1: foreign policy proved to be a failure. That is, he 556 00:33:08,657 --> 00:33:11,457 Speaker 1: had argued in the Jefferson administration when he was Secretary 557 00:33:11,497 --> 00:33:14,617 Speaker 1: of State that the United States should rely more on 558 00:33:15,177 --> 00:33:21,377 Speaker 1: economic coercion than on traditional balance of powers military equations 559 00:33:21,457 --> 00:33:24,977 Speaker 1: in foreign affairs. The United States, he insisted, didn't need 560 00:33:24,977 --> 00:33:27,577 Speaker 1: to have a significant navy, didn't need to have taxes 561 00:33:27,617 --> 00:33:30,257 Speaker 1: to pay for one. When the War of eighteen twelve 562 00:33:30,537 --> 00:33:34,537 Speaker 1: resulted from the failure of madison'siety of economic coercion, the 563 00:33:34,617 --> 00:33:37,217 Speaker 1: United States weren't really prepared and Madison did a poor 564 00:33:37,297 --> 00:33:40,297 Speaker 1: job of choosing a war secretary, of Navy secretary, and 565 00:33:40,297 --> 00:33:44,097 Speaker 1: so on. The result of this was that a foreign 566 00:33:44,177 --> 00:33:48,097 Speaker 1: army marched into Washington, burned down the Capitol, burned down 567 00:33:48,097 --> 00:33:51,177 Speaker 1: the White House, burned down the Treasury Department, war state. 568 00:33:52,377 --> 00:33:56,657 Speaker 1: It was a debacle, but because of the way the 569 00:33:56,697 --> 00:34:01,537 Speaker 1: war ended, because New England states were being essentially disloyal, 570 00:34:01,657 --> 00:34:05,777 Speaker 1: and ultimately the American diplomats in Europe got a good 571 00:34:05,817 --> 00:34:09,137 Speaker 1: piece out of the deal. The Federalist Party ended up 572 00:34:09,137 --> 00:34:11,217 Speaker 1: being the one that was credited by the War of 573 00:34:11,257 --> 00:34:13,537 Speaker 1: eighteen twelve. So by the time the War of eighteen 574 00:34:13,617 --> 00:34:18,897 Speaker 1: twelve ended in Madison's and Jefferson's friend James Monroe, who 575 00:34:18,897 --> 00:34:22,017 Speaker 1: had been Madison's Secretary of State, succeeded him as the 576 00:34:22,017 --> 00:34:26,297 Speaker 1: fifth president. The Federalist Party, the opposition party, had more 577 00:34:26,377 --> 00:34:28,657 Speaker 1: or less ceased to exist. It's kind of hard to 578 00:34:28,657 --> 00:34:32,697 Speaker 1: imagine that a foreign army invades the country, burns the capital, 579 00:34:32,817 --> 00:34:36,297 Speaker 1: and the incumbent party ends up being the beneficiary of 580 00:34:36,337 --> 00:34:38,937 Speaker 1: the war. But that's really what happened. So by the 581 00:34:38,977 --> 00:34:43,297 Speaker 1: time Madison kind of rides out of Washington, the Federalist 582 00:34:43,337 --> 00:34:46,297 Speaker 1: Party is no longer a significant factor in American politics. 583 00:34:46,297 --> 00:34:50,457 Speaker 1: The Jeffersonian Republicans control today, and they're going to continue 584 00:34:50,497 --> 00:34:53,137 Speaker 1: to do so for another decade. Now. Kevin, You've got 585 00:34:53,137 --> 00:34:55,937 Speaker 1: a new book coming out in December called The Jeffersonians, 586 00:34:56,217 --> 00:34:59,937 Speaker 1: The Visionary Presidencies of Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe. We did 587 00:34:59,937 --> 00:35:02,977 Speaker 1: not give a full segment to Monroe on our show 588 00:35:03,017 --> 00:35:05,497 Speaker 1: here going into the Independence Day weekend, but I just 589 00:35:05,537 --> 00:35:08,217 Speaker 1: wanted to give the man a moment, a minute or 590 00:35:08,217 --> 00:35:10,817 Speaker 1: two here. What do people need to know about the 591 00:35:10,937 --> 00:35:16,457 Speaker 1: Jeffersonianism and the legacy of President Monroe. Well, Monroe's a 592 00:35:16,537 --> 00:35:20,617 Speaker 1: fellow who's responsible for the Transcontinental Treaty. So the fact 593 00:35:20,657 --> 00:35:24,737 Speaker 1: that the United States extended officially from the Atlantic to 594 00:35:24,777 --> 00:35:28,097 Speaker 1: the Pacific is achieved during the Monroe administration. Of course, 595 00:35:28,137 --> 00:35:30,617 Speaker 1: what he's also most famous for today is what's called 596 00:35:30,617 --> 00:35:32,937 Speaker 1: the Monroe Doctrine, which he presented in one of his 597 00:35:32,977 --> 00:35:35,817 Speaker 1: State of the Union messages. And he had the idea, 598 00:35:36,657 --> 00:35:40,057 Speaker 1: in fact, what had been opposition. Newspapers in New England 599 00:35:40,657 --> 00:35:44,417 Speaker 1: referred to his tenure as the Era of Good Feelings 600 00:35:44,457 --> 00:35:48,057 Speaker 1: because Monroe had the idea that if the Federalist Party 601 00:35:48,137 --> 00:35:50,977 Speaker 1: no longer was a united opposition party, there was no 602 00:35:51,137 --> 00:35:53,897 Speaker 1: reason for Monroe to try to keep the Republican Party 603 00:35:53,937 --> 00:35:56,897 Speaker 1: going either. There should be just a kind of nonpartisan 604 00:35:56,977 --> 00:36:00,137 Speaker 1: environment in which Americans had common principles and instead of 605 00:36:00,457 --> 00:36:04,017 Speaker 1: seeing each other as political antagonists, they should try to 606 00:36:04,057 --> 00:36:08,417 Speaker 1: be brethren in the American experiment. So that was the 607 00:36:08,457 --> 00:36:12,577 Speaker 1: way he approached the presidents in his entire two trum tenure. 608 00:36:12,657 --> 00:36:20,257 Speaker 1: He wanted not to have formal parties as a permanent factor. Yeah, Kevin, 609 00:36:20,657 --> 00:36:22,137 Speaker 1: good luck to you in the book. Thank you so 610 00:36:22,217 --> 00:36:25,617 Speaker 1: much for bringing us back to some of the history 611 00:36:25,657 --> 00:36:27,537 Speaker 1: that we might have learned a little bit of. And 612 00:36:27,857 --> 00:36:30,497 Speaker 1: grammar school, high school, maybe college and had forgotten. We 613 00:36:30,537 --> 00:36:33,297 Speaker 1: really appreciate you being with us. Thank you, You're welcome. 614 00:36:35,177 --> 00:36:36,937 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of this special edition 615 00:36:36,977 --> 00:36:55,057 Speaker 1: of Hold the Line. No list of great presidents would 616 00:36:55,057 --> 00:36:58,617 Speaker 1: be complete without a discussion of America's fortieth President, Ronald 617 00:36:58,657 --> 00:37:01,657 Speaker 1: Reagan Dutch. Although he would come to be remembered as 618 00:37:01,657 --> 00:37:05,417 Speaker 1: a champion of conservatism, Reagan was once a Democrat, even 619 00:37:05,457 --> 00:37:07,537 Speaker 1: serving as the president of the Screen Actors Guild in 620 00:37:07,537 --> 00:37:10,937 Speaker 1: the nineteen forties and fifties. A fierce defender of liberty 621 00:37:10,937 --> 00:37:14,537 Speaker 1: an opponent of communism, Reagan's finest moment arguably came on 622 00:37:14,657 --> 00:37:18,177 Speaker 1: June twelfth, nineteen eighty seven, when he delivered a pointed 623 00:37:18,257 --> 00:37:22,617 Speaker 1: message to Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev. The advance of human 624 00:37:22,657 --> 00:37:27,257 Speaker 1: liberty can only strengthen the cause of world peace. There 625 00:37:27,337 --> 00:37:31,377 Speaker 1: is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, 626 00:37:32,577 --> 00:37:37,017 Speaker 1: that would advance dran dramatically the cause of freedom and peace. 627 00:37:38,657 --> 00:37:44,497 Speaker 1: General Secretary Gorbutchev, if you seek peace, if you seek 628 00:37:44,577 --> 00:37:48,977 Speaker 1: prosperity for the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe, if you 629 00:37:49,057 --> 00:37:55,937 Speaker 1: seek liberalization, come here to this gate, mister Gorbutschev, Open 630 00:37:56,337 --> 00:38:06,017 Speaker 1: this gate mister Gorbutschev, tear down this wall, one of 631 00:38:06,057 --> 00:38:09,937 Speaker 1: those famous lines in the history of American politics, journey 632 00:38:10,057 --> 00:38:12,857 Speaker 1: once again to share his thoughts on President Reagan. The 633 00:38:12,897 --> 00:38:15,737 Speaker 1: President of the Heritage Foundation, Kevin Roberts, Kevin, thanks for 634 00:38:15,777 --> 00:38:20,217 Speaker 1: being back with us. My pleasure. Thanks. I gotta say, 635 00:38:20,657 --> 00:38:25,897 Speaker 1: when the top line item of your legacy is brought 636 00:38:25,937 --> 00:38:29,657 Speaker 1: about the defeat of an evil empire that had immiserrated 637 00:38:29,697 --> 00:38:32,817 Speaker 1: people around the world for decades and had threatened the 638 00:38:32,857 --> 00:38:38,057 Speaker 1: world with thousands of nuclear weapons, it's a pretty good start. Yeah, 639 00:38:38,337 --> 00:38:40,297 Speaker 1: As I sit there watching that, I was a thirteen 640 00:38:40,377 --> 00:38:43,457 Speaker 1: year old kid when he delivered that speech, watching it 641 00:38:43,537 --> 00:38:46,577 Speaker 1: with my grandparents. Reagan was the first Republican they voted for. 642 00:38:46,697 --> 00:38:50,337 Speaker 1: They were Democrats in Louisiana, which says something about his cheerfulness. 643 00:38:50,657 --> 00:38:54,137 Speaker 1: I get chills many years later watching that. For this reason, 644 00:38:54,497 --> 00:38:56,737 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time with former students, with 645 00:38:56,857 --> 00:38:59,937 Speaker 1: younger colleagues here at the Heritage Foundation, who know that 646 00:39:00,017 --> 00:39:02,897 Speaker 1: Reagan was special, that he was even a historic figure. 647 00:39:02,937 --> 00:39:05,657 Speaker 1: But because they didn't live through the Cold War, and 648 00:39:05,697 --> 00:39:08,897 Speaker 1: they therefore can't remember the palpable fear that those of 649 00:39:08,937 --> 00:39:12,377 Speaker 1: us who did had about the Soviets. That speech for 650 00:39:12,497 --> 00:39:16,657 Speaker 1: us galvanized the American spirit. For that matter, the spirit 651 00:39:16,657 --> 00:39:19,737 Speaker 1: of freedom for people around the world, folks in Eastern 652 00:39:19,777 --> 00:39:23,697 Speaker 1: Europe obviously timely today, folks in Africa, Latin America. All 653 00:39:23,697 --> 00:39:26,497 Speaker 1: of that to say, of all of the speeches that 654 00:39:26,537 --> 00:39:29,377 Speaker 1: I've studied, that I've taught to students in history, I 655 00:39:29,417 --> 00:39:32,497 Speaker 1: would say in all of history, Buck that speech that 656 00:39:32,537 --> 00:39:36,417 Speaker 1: moment is top five or top ten in modern history. 657 00:39:37,217 --> 00:39:39,977 Speaker 1: Pretty astonishing when you think about it, and we appreciate 658 00:39:40,057 --> 00:39:46,577 Speaker 1: you put it into that context. Reagan's political transformation, or 659 00:39:46,617 --> 00:39:51,297 Speaker 1: perhaps a political evolution from Democrats, Green Actors, guild guy 660 00:39:51,537 --> 00:39:54,137 Speaker 1: to governor California then president. What can you tell us 661 00:39:54,177 --> 00:39:57,897 Speaker 1: about how that whole process came about. What pushed him, 662 00:39:58,217 --> 00:40:02,217 Speaker 1: at least in my opinion, into the light of conservatism, Well, 663 00:40:02,337 --> 00:40:04,457 Speaker 1: two things, sort of a push and a pull. What 664 00:40:04,657 --> 00:40:07,777 Speaker 1: pushed him away from a left of center he was 665 00:40:07,817 --> 00:40:10,537 Speaker 1: never hyper liberal like like we would today in the 666 00:40:10,537 --> 00:40:14,337 Speaker 1: twenty first century, was nonetheless the evolution of the American 667 00:40:14,457 --> 00:40:18,937 Speaker 1: left toward a much more status entity, a movement that 668 00:40:19,017 --> 00:40:22,897 Speaker 1: really wanted the centralization of power in state capitals and 669 00:40:23,017 --> 00:40:25,897 Speaker 1: especially in the nation's capital, and Reagan because of his 670 00:40:26,057 --> 00:40:29,297 Speaker 1: middle class upbringing in the Midwest, knew that's not how 671 00:40:29,337 --> 00:40:34,577 Speaker 1: Americans operated. And simultaneously what pulled him into the conservative 672 00:40:34,617 --> 00:40:37,417 Speaker 1: movement was a number of episodes, not least among them 673 00:40:37,497 --> 00:40:40,857 Speaker 1: very Goldwaters nineteen sixty four speech, another great speech in 674 00:40:40,937 --> 00:40:45,097 Speaker 1: modern history, and Reagan understanding that in order for Americans 675 00:40:45,137 --> 00:40:48,297 Speaker 1: to be self governing, that there was only one political 676 00:40:48,337 --> 00:40:51,457 Speaker 1: and intellectual movement that could be home for him. He was, 677 00:40:51,497 --> 00:40:55,537 Speaker 1: of course treated very poorly by people, fellow actors and 678 00:40:55,657 --> 00:40:58,817 Speaker 1: others on the left coast. But the poll by the 679 00:40:58,817 --> 00:41:02,497 Speaker 1: conservative movement was this recognition that the people needed to 680 00:41:02,537 --> 00:41:06,377 Speaker 1: take power back from those who were centralizing it in Washington, DC. 681 00:41:06,817 --> 00:41:09,177 Speaker 1: In other words, Buck, if we had not had the 682 00:41:09,217 --> 00:41:12,617 Speaker 1: expansion of government through the so called Great Society, and 683 00:41:12,697 --> 00:41:15,537 Speaker 1: even under the Republican president Nixon, I don't think we 684 00:41:15,577 --> 00:41:18,937 Speaker 1: would have had Reagan as a conservative leader, because there 685 00:41:18,977 --> 00:41:21,857 Speaker 1: needed to be some counterweight to all of that nonsense. 686 00:41:22,177 --> 00:41:26,217 Speaker 1: Reagan is, like so many important historical figures, someone who 687 00:41:26,257 --> 00:41:29,977 Speaker 1: also reflects the evolution of his age, and that evolution 688 00:41:30,017 --> 00:41:34,137 Speaker 1: of his age that he reflected was an increasing skepticism, 689 00:41:34,177 --> 00:41:38,177 Speaker 1: if not hostility, towards centralized power. Here in Washington. That 690 00:41:38,297 --> 00:41:42,617 Speaker 1: really is politically one of his greatest legacies. Reagan as 691 00:41:42,617 --> 00:41:45,737 Speaker 1: a communicator is often something that comes up when people 692 00:41:45,777 --> 00:41:50,217 Speaker 1: reflect on his presidency. What was it? Why do you 693 00:41:50,257 --> 00:41:52,697 Speaker 1: think he was so able? Obviously, we came in with 694 00:41:53,097 --> 00:41:58,297 Speaker 1: perhaps his most famous, memorable line and famous speech of 695 00:41:58,337 --> 00:42:00,617 Speaker 1: his entire well of his entire life, and one of 696 00:42:00,657 --> 00:42:03,857 Speaker 1: the most famous of the twentieth century, especially given the 697 00:42:03,857 --> 00:42:06,057 Speaker 1: impact as we discussed of what it was all about. 698 00:42:06,457 --> 00:42:09,377 Speaker 1: Reagan just seemed to connect. Reagan seemed to be able 699 00:42:09,377 --> 00:42:13,897 Speaker 1: to form coalitions of different folks all of the country 700 00:42:14,057 --> 00:42:16,257 Speaker 1: by making the case to them. Why was he so 701 00:42:16,297 --> 00:42:19,937 Speaker 1: good at that? I think because of his upbringing, you 702 00:42:19,937 --> 00:42:23,497 Speaker 1: know it, had studied a lot of historical figures, especially 703 00:42:23,537 --> 00:42:27,297 Speaker 1: in US history, and Reagan is one of those great 704 00:42:27,377 --> 00:42:31,617 Speaker 1: leaders in our country's history, both Democrats and Republicans, who 705 00:42:31,697 --> 00:42:35,657 Speaker 1: is a great communicator because he had life experiences that 706 00:42:35,857 --> 00:42:37,697 Speaker 1: he not only didn't forget as an adult, but that 707 00:42:37,737 --> 00:42:39,817 Speaker 1: he could relate. And the point that I'm trying to 708 00:42:39,857 --> 00:42:42,257 Speaker 1: make here, Buck is Reagan was well read. He was 709 00:42:42,297 --> 00:42:44,617 Speaker 1: a learned man. Even though the Left love to portray 710 00:42:44,697 --> 00:42:47,737 Speaker 1: him is forgetful and dumb. Neither of which was true. 711 00:42:48,017 --> 00:42:51,497 Speaker 1: But he was able to cause Americans to be inspired 712 00:42:51,777 --> 00:42:57,377 Speaker 1: to talk about aspirational goals, lofty abstract ideals like freedom 713 00:42:57,417 --> 00:43:00,057 Speaker 1: and self governance. But this is the key point. He 714 00:43:00,137 --> 00:43:03,217 Speaker 1: was able to do that while also explaining why, from 715 00:43:03,337 --> 00:43:05,537 Speaker 1: our perch on the Gulf Coast where I grew up, 716 00:43:05,737 --> 00:43:08,057 Speaker 1: if you are a working class kid, or if you 717 00:43:08,097 --> 00:43:10,737 Speaker 1: were someone who was well to do, why you should 718 00:43:10,777 --> 00:43:13,777 Speaker 1: care about those ideals in the modern world. It was 719 00:43:14,137 --> 00:43:16,897 Speaker 1: a pretty unique gift for someone in the twentieth century, 720 00:43:17,017 --> 00:43:19,337 Speaker 1: and something that, as we are now a quarter of 721 00:43:19,377 --> 00:43:21,817 Speaker 1: the way into the next century, you realize is pretty 722 00:43:21,897 --> 00:43:24,857 Speaker 1: rare in American political leaders. If almost to look at 723 00:43:24,897 --> 00:43:30,217 Speaker 1: the span of Reagan's accomplishments over the eight years that 724 00:43:30,537 --> 00:43:33,417 Speaker 1: he was in office, right starting with the end of 725 00:43:33,457 --> 00:43:37,537 Speaker 1: the Carter administration, a rough time in American history. Reagan 726 00:43:37,617 --> 00:43:40,617 Speaker 1: comes in. What's it like when Reagan takes office and 727 00:43:40,657 --> 00:43:44,937 Speaker 1: what's the country like when he's done after eight years? Well, 728 00:43:44,937 --> 00:43:47,617 Speaker 1: it's sort of like what I said about folks who 729 00:43:48,017 --> 00:43:51,857 Speaker 1: were not alive then not being able to appreciate the contrast. 730 00:43:51,897 --> 00:43:54,817 Speaker 1: And it's not because younger folks are unlearned. Is because 731 00:43:54,817 --> 00:43:57,217 Speaker 1: when you live it you realize the contrast when it 732 00:43:57,257 --> 00:44:00,297 Speaker 1: comes into office, inflation is through the roof. If you 733 00:44:00,337 --> 00:44:02,857 Speaker 1: wanted to go get a mortgage for your home, you're 734 00:44:02,897 --> 00:44:06,217 Speaker 1: going to pay eighteen even nineteen, sometimes twenty percent. We 735 00:44:06,377 --> 00:44:08,857 Speaker 1: complained today about four and a half and five percent. 736 00:44:09,337 --> 00:44:13,177 Speaker 1: The country, most of all, though, even beyond those economic troubles, 737 00:44:13,737 --> 00:44:16,897 Speaker 1: was in a system or a status of malaise. I mean, 738 00:44:16,897 --> 00:44:20,817 Speaker 1: there was a huge ebb in the morale of the 739 00:44:20,817 --> 00:44:24,897 Speaker 1: American people because at home inflation was terrible. There was 740 00:44:24,937 --> 00:44:27,057 Speaker 1: a lot of discord at home. This is just years, 741 00:44:27,177 --> 00:44:31,377 Speaker 1: a few years after the unsuccessful conclusion of the Vietnam conflict, 742 00:44:31,577 --> 00:44:34,857 Speaker 1: and then abroad, America I have to say, not unlike 743 00:44:34,897 --> 00:44:38,257 Speaker 1: we'd see today under the Biden administration was not really 744 00:44:38,337 --> 00:44:43,137 Speaker 1: projecting strength. Reagan said that America's best days were ahead 745 00:44:43,137 --> 00:44:45,497 Speaker 1: of it, not behind it. And even though there were 746 00:44:45,497 --> 00:44:48,417 Speaker 1: people who criticized him for saying that, when you look 747 00:44:48,457 --> 00:44:51,017 Speaker 1: at his policies in nineteen eighty nine, when he left 748 00:44:51,017 --> 00:44:55,177 Speaker 1: office and you realize inflation was gone, he had initiated 749 00:44:55,297 --> 00:44:59,577 Speaker 1: what was the longest period of uninterrupted prosperity in American 750 00:44:59,657 --> 00:45:02,617 Speaker 1: history up to that point. And most of all, he 751 00:45:02,657 --> 00:45:06,497 Speaker 1: had stared down the Soviets and the Berlin Wall soon 752 00:45:06,577 --> 00:45:09,337 Speaker 1: would be torn down and the Soviet Union would collapse. 753 00:45:09,577 --> 00:45:12,697 Speaker 1: You realize this man did a lot in a short 754 00:45:12,737 --> 00:45:15,777 Speaker 1: amount of time. Kevin, thank you so much for all 755 00:45:15,777 --> 00:45:19,137 Speaker 1: the inside and expertise, and have a happy Independence Day weekend, sir, 756 00:45:20,257 --> 00:45:23,817 Speaker 1: do the same. Thanks for having me. All right, that's 757 00:45:23,857 --> 00:45:25,337 Speaker 1: all the time we have for the special edition of 758 00:45:25,417 --> 00:45:27,377 Speaker 1: Hold the Line. I'd like to thank my guest historian 759 00:45:27,457 --> 00:45:31,137 Speaker 1: Kevin Goodsman and Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts for sharing 760 00:45:31,177 --> 00:45:42,057 Speaker 1: their expertise. Build and' riley up next Field's high