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Speaker 1: Warning. The following episode contains discussion of Ronald Reagan, pro wrestlers,

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Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan talking to pro wrestlers Johnny Carson, and a

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Speaker 1: disastrous late night pizza party. Also astrology sensitive listeners. Keep

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Speaker 1: your tones handy.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I got games.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes I'm mad shots, Sometimes I'm mad lame. Sometimes I'm

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Speaker 3: mad flying. Sometimes I'm so flying the Bay. I'm Hella fly.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes I'll get fraud and it'll be televised. Okay, we're

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Speaker 3: gonna start this out with another slideshow, and this time

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Speaker 3: it's about hul Cogan. This is hul Cogan's Rock and wrestling.

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Speaker 3: As a kid, I knew everyone was supposed to like Hulkogan,

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Speaker 3: and sometimes I even pretended to like Hulkogan, even though

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Speaker 3: I was not a fan, But I often watched his

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Speaker 3: cartoons on Saturday mornings because they were on. This is

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Speaker 3: the only rock and wrestling episode I remember.

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Speaker 4: The President wants to speak with you.

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Speaker 3: Yes, sir, your country is depending on you, Holster. Don't

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Speaker 3: let us down in it. The President like this cartoon.

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Speaker 3: Ronald Reagan asked Hulkgan to go to space to rescue

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Speaker 3: astronauts before a shuttle explodes. The cartoon is seared in

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Speaker 3: my brain because it aired not long after the Challenger disaster.

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Speaker 2: Well, what was it like being wrestler in space?

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Speaker 3: I tell you, bang, it was more awesome than a

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Speaker 3: combat song. I also remember thinking, why do they think

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Speaker 3: Hulkogan can probably open a cargo bay door? Because I mean,

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Speaker 3: I know, oh he's strong. But even in cartoon form,

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Speaker 3: this seemed dumb. And I was seven at the time.

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Speaker 3: But maybe the makers of Rock and Wrestling thought they

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Speaker 3: were doing something to help calm kids nerves.

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Speaker 5: And I want to say something to the school children

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Speaker 5: of America. I know it's hard to understand, but sometimes

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Speaker 5: painful things like this happen.

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Speaker 3: That's the actual Ronald Gray again. The day after the

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Speaker 3: Challenger exploded, our first grade teacher wheeled a TV into

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Speaker 3: our classroom so the President could talk to us directly.

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Speaker 5: It's all part of the process of exploration and discovery.

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Speaker 5: It's all part of taking a chance of expanding man's horizons.

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Speaker 5: The future doesn't belong to the faint hearted, belongs to

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Speaker 5: the brave.

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Speaker 3: The future belongs to the brave. Those words embody America

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Speaker 3: right and to preserve hope in the face of something

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Speaker 3: so devastating, so visible, anyway, what does any of this

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Speaker 3: have to do with us? Well, the Challenger wasn't the

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Speaker 3: only time Reagan was thinking about the intersection of space

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Speaker 3: and the future. That's right, I'm talking about astrology, and

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Speaker 3: it turns out in the nineteen eighties there was a

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Speaker 3: full on astrology scandal in the Reagan White House.

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Speaker 6: I don't mean to offend anyone who does but believe

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Speaker 6: in it, or.

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Speaker 5: Who engage in Do you believe in it?

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Speaker 3: From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts, I'm Mongay's shitigither, Welcome to

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Speaker 3: Skyline Drive chapter one. When God's powerful word came.

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Speaker 5: Let's start with the part that is the most controversial.

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Speaker 5: A few months ago I told the American people I

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Speaker 5: did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my

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Speaker 5: best intentions still tell me that's true, But the facts

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Speaker 5: and the evidence tell me it is.

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Speaker 3: Not. Thing about Ronald Reagan is that he was unknowable,

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Speaker 3: like frustratingly unknowable. When the famed biographer Edmund Morris got

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Speaker 3: three million dollars to do an official biography, he spent

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Speaker 3: fourteen years interviewing and shadowing Reagan, but when he turned

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Speaker 3: in his book, he switched it from a biography to fiction,

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Speaker 3: and when he was asked why he did that with

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Speaker 3: his manuscript on sixty Minutes, Morris said, he was truly

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Speaker 3: one of the strangest men who ever lived. Nobody around

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Speaker 3: him understood him. I every person I interviewed, almost without exception,

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Speaker 3: eventually would say, you know, I could never really figure

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Speaker 3: him out. Think about that. Fourteen years of access and

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Speaker 3: Morris couldn't figure out how to accurately write about the

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Speaker 3: man and what he stood for. And maybe that's why

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Speaker 3: my mom and dad had such different opinions of Reagan.

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Speaker 3: To my dad, a newly minted American, Reagan was proof

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Speaker 3: that anyone could make it in America, an actor becoming president.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's the optimism of an immigrant, someone who

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Speaker 3: genuinely believed his son's potential was limitless in this new land.

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Speaker 3: But to my mom, who was not a fan of

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Speaker 3: his policies, reagan supposed interest in astrology made her like

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Speaker 3: him more because it made him more like us. And

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Speaker 3: Reagan's interest in astrology was just this thing I always

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Speaker 3: knew about growing up, but as I grew older, I

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Speaker 3: began to question it, like it kind of seemed too

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Speaker 3: outlandish to be true. So I asked my pal Mary

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Speaker 3: if she could find anything more concrete about this whole story. Actually,

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Speaker 3: before we dive into the controversa, I just wanted to

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Speaker 3: ask you. I feel really lucky to have you in

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Speaker 3: this project, but I'm curious why you did it because

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Speaker 3: you don't believe in astrology.

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Speaker 4: Well, you're very persuasive.

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Speaker 3: I guess We're sitting in a studio in Midtown and

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Speaker 3: I'm laughing because it's true. Mary was not convinced when

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Speaker 3: I pitched this tour.

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Speaker 4: But I can. I can learn about things without believing

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Speaker 4: in them. I figure it's an opportunity to go down

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Speaker 4: a path I would not ordinarily go down.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what your sign is?

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Speaker 4: I found out I'm a cancer. I thought I was

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Speaker 4: a Gemini. Oh, really, turns out I'm a cancer.

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Speaker 3: So I roped you into this thing with astrology, and

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Speaker 3: then I said, hey, I really want to look into

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Speaker 3: Ronald Reagan.

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Speaker 4: You did, and I like Ronald Reagan about as much

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Speaker 4: as I like atrology. I grew up being terrified of

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Speaker 4: Ronald Reagan. I remember being like three years old and

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Speaker 4: seeing him on the TV and being genuinely frightened. My

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Speaker 4: parents were dragging me to defense spending protests during the eighties,

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Speaker 4: so I had a very different experience. So it didn't

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Speaker 4: seem to really add up my understanding of Ronald Reagan

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Speaker 4: and my understanding of astrology. That didn't really make any sense.

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Speaker 4: And so that was why I figured it would be

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Speaker 4: really interesting to find out what actually happened.

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Speaker 3: So, like, what was the big sort of controversy that

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Speaker 3: made everyone suddenly start talking about it? So this is

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Speaker 3: really juicy.

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Speaker 4: There's this guy Don Reagan who had been chief of

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Speaker 4: staff for Ronald Reagan, and he had been the chairman

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Speaker 4: of Merrill Lynch for a long time. He was Treasury Secretary.

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Speaker 4: He was like the architect of Reaganomics. And then he

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Speaker 4: became chief of staff and he left the White House.

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Speaker 4: He got kicked out, and he basically was thrown out

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Speaker 4: in disgrace from his job. And so he turned around

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Speaker 4: and wrote a tell all book in nineteen eighty eight,

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Speaker 4: called for the record, and apparently he got a million

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Speaker 4: dollar advance, which was huge money at the.

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Speaker 3: Time, million dollars.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but he made this huge revelation that while he

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Speaker 4: was in the White House, Nancy Reagan was asking him

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Speaker 4: to change the president's schedule based on astrological advice from

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Speaker 4: a friend, quote quote. He even said he had to

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Speaker 4: keep a color coded calendar of like good days, auspicious days,

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Speaker 4: bad days, if he days for the president's travel, his

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Speaker 4: public appeerings. All of this and the press went crazy.

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Speaker 2: The Reagan's and their stars astrologically speaking, Did Donald Reagan

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Speaker 2: get his ex bosses Capricorn?

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Speaker 3: That is goat? Or is it all a load of Taurus?

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Speaker 1: If President Richard Nixon?

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Speaker 3: Towards the end, the claim was I am not a

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Speaker 3: crook with Ronald Reagan. Last week it was more like

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Speaker 3: I am not a nut. Is that like a gift

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Speaker 3: from heaven for a cartoon as a story like that? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it is.

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Speaker 2: I consider that it's just too good, too good to

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Speaker 2: be true.

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Speaker 4: There's a Reagan library. They have archives, and I thought, well,

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Speaker 4: maybe there's something in there about astrology. Turns out they

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Speaker 4: actually have a finding aid labeled astrology. Oh really yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: because they have files that are, you know, touch on

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Speaker 4: the scandal. I asked them if I could see them,

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Speaker 4: and they said that they would have to take some

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Speaker 4: time to take all the staples out, but then they

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Speaker 4: could scan them and send them to me. And a

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Speaker 4: lot of it was just newspaper clippings, you know, cartoons

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Speaker 4: when it came out. Yeah, And there were transcripts of

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Speaker 4: press conferences where the White House spokespeople were just getting slammed.

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Speaker 4: All the reporters wanted to talk about was astrology. What

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Speaker 4: is the deal? You know, are they just deciding everything

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Speaker 4: based on this? You know, what can you tell us?

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Speaker 4: And they didn't want to answer. But what I thought

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Speaker 4: was really fascinating was they had saved all of this

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Speaker 4: correspondence from the religious right, basically evangelical Christians who had

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Speaker 4: helped elect Ronald Reagan. Evangelical Christians do not like astrology.

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Speaker 4: This is May twenty seventh, nineteen eighty eight, at the

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Speaker 4: height of the controversy from Don Reagan's book. This radio

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Speaker 4: preacher named George Otis, who was a friend of the Reagans,

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Speaker 4: wrote directly to the White House. Dear mister President, you've

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Speaker 4: been a great chief of state. You will recall how

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Speaker 4: in October nineteen seventy God spoke directly to you through

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Speaker 4: myself there in your Sacramento home. When God's powerful word

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Speaker 4: came you were to become president of the United States.

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Speaker 4: This may have been the most remarkable visitation from the

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Speaker 4: Lord of any president in history. You were hand packed

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Speaker 4: for leadership in one of our nation's most pivotal hours. Wow,

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Speaker 4: no pressure, right, And so he was saying, I beg

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Speaker 4: you to renounce the practice of astrology in the White House.

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Speaker 4: To make a statement now would be an act of

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Speaker 4: courage and pleasing to God. But if you fail to

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Speaker 4: do so, you legitimize astrology and the occult and set

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Speaker 4: our nation on a collision course with God.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why, but I always sort of bristle

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Speaker 3: when I hear things like this. There is such hypocrisy

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Speaker 3: on what sort of magical thinking we're okay with as

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Speaker 3: a country. Like if a televangelist goes into tongues and

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Speaker 3: prophesizes that Reagan has to be the next president because

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Speaker 3: God told him, that is totally okay. Western miracles don't

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Speaker 3: bother the base, But if an astrologer makes a prediction

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Speaker 3: that's blasphemy. It just feels silly that a president should

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Speaker 3: be lauded for believing in one of those ideas but

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Speaker 3: threatened for believing in the other. It reminds me of

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Speaker 3: this feeling I had as a kid, totally the opposite

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Speaker 3: of my dad's optimism about who was allowed to be president.

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Speaker 3: The fact that I was born brown and Hindu, that

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Speaker 3: I had a name that was unpronounceable. It seemingly crippled

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Speaker 3: my chances from the start. I mean, the Indian kids

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Speaker 3: who were ten years older than me and wanted to

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Speaker 3: be politicians, the Bobby Jindles and Nikki Haley's, they always

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Speaker 3: seemed to convert to Christianity and change their names along

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Speaker 3: the way. You know, I wish I could tell you

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Speaker 3: I had this son to epiphany.

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Speaker 5: There was no moment on that road to Damascus was

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Speaker 5: that easy for me.

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Speaker 7: Christianity spoke to me at a time where I needed

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Speaker 7: a connection, and so no political pressure should never change

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Speaker 7: a person.

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Speaker 3: I am my parents' daughter. Maybe that's why I'm so

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Speaker 3: interested in Ronald Reagan, because even though he's seen as

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Speaker 3: this ultimate American, this American mascot for those who.

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Speaker 5: Have abandoned the whole, we'll restore hope and we'll welcome

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Speaker 5: them into a great national crusade to make America great again.

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Speaker 3: By dabbling in astrology, he got away with something that

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Speaker 3: doesn't feel American at all.

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Speaker 4: So right after Don Reagan's book came out and broke

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Speaker 4: this story of astrology. In the White House, Ronald Reagan

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Speaker 4: and George Bush, who was then Vice President, were walking

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Speaker 4: to a press conference in the Rose Garden.

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Speaker 3: Look, the President, will you continue to allow astrology to

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Speaker 3: play a part in the makeup of old ChEls.

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Speaker 7: Kock it off man?

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Speaker 5: You asked for it? I can't because I never did.

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Speaker 3: This is not the man I watched in first grade

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Speaker 3: reminding us that science can be heartbreak but is always progress.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this man is struggling. Like, listen to this

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Speaker 3: from May seventeen, nineteen eighty eight.

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Speaker 6: This was all once again smoke and mirrors, and we

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Speaker 6: made no decisions on it, and we're not binding our

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Speaker 6: lives to this. And I don't mean to offend anyone

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Speaker 6: who does but believe in it.

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Speaker 3: So right there, he takes a moment to make sure

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Speaker 3: he's not offending anyone who believes in astrology, and then

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Speaker 3: a reporter pounces.

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Speaker 6: I don't guide my life by it, but I won't

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Speaker 6: answer the question the other way because I don't know

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Speaker 6: enough about it to say is there something to it or.

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Speaker 3: Belief is hard to talk about. It's confusing. Sometimes belief

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Speaker 3: is just the collective sway of these tiny tendrils of influence.

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Speaker 3: Like it's not some hard and fast tenets. I mean

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Speaker 3: you hear it in Reagan's words, right, Like talking about

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Speaker 3: belief is so hard that one of the most gifted

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Speaker 3: politicians stumbles through his answer and he twists his words

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Speaker 3: into some things so convoluted it barely has meaning anymore.

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Speaker 3: Except Reagan is not being honest here, because astrology had

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Speaker 3: definitely played a role in his daily and his political life.

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Speaker 3: And you don't have to take our word for it,

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Speaker 3: you can take his straight from his nineteen sixty five autobiography.

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Speaker 3: So let's turn back the clocks and investigate right after

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Speaker 3: this break about the hearty got get you chum head

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Speaker 3: chapter two, what would Nancy do? The strange thing is,

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Speaker 3: for decades, Ron and Nancy's interest in astrology was an

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Speaker 3: open secret, or at least it had been. Astrology was

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Speaker 3: this California thing, and it was also a showbiz thing,

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Speaker 3: and the Reagans and their friends they enjoyed rubbing shoulders

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Speaker 3: with people like La Times astrologer Carol Ryder because, like

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Speaker 3: People Magazine put it, writer was the confidante of the

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Speaker 3: rich and famous, who saw him less as a backdoor

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Speaker 3: Suthsayer than as social equal. His zodiac parties in the

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Speaker 3: fifties were highlights of every season. Fish for swimming in

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Speaker 3: his pool for the Pisces party, and he rented a

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Speaker 3: liveline for a Leo party. As Ronald wrote in his

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixty five autobiography Where's the Rest of Me, every

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Speaker 3: morning Nancy and I turned to see what he has

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Speaker 3: to say about people of our respective birth signs, horoscopes,

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Speaker 3: and astrology. It was no big deal and a part

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Speaker 3: of their daily morning routine. They liked to check in

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Speaker 3: and contemplate how the stars might affect their day, and

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Speaker 3: they embraced the culture. Around that same time, Nancy started

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Speaker 3: paying writer for his astrologically. Then came the election in

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Speaker 3: late nineteen sixty six. After Ronald Reagan won the governor's race,

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Speaker 3: he scheduled his oath to take place, specifically at twelve

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Speaker 3: sixteen am on January second, nineteen sixty seven. The timing

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Speaker 3: of this did not make any sense unless you were

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Speaker 3: looking at the stars. It turns out that exact time

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Speaker 3: corresponded to Jupiter rising, and if you're a believer, starting

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Speaker 3: your term at that moment would make it blessed prosperous.

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Speaker 3: When the outgoing governor Edmund Brown got win to the story,

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Speaker 3: he leaked it to the press and Reagan's team immediately

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Speaker 3: went into spin mode. Right, so, Reagan had a spokesperson

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Speaker 3: tell reporters that he didn't believe in astrology. The staffer

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Speaker 3: even took it further. He said Reagan was so averse

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Speaker 3: to astrology that he had only ever seen a horoscope

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Speaker 3: by accident, which obviously wasn't true. But the craziest part

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Speaker 3: of all this, like the reason we're talking about this,

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Speaker 3: It means that Don Reagan's book wasn't even the president's

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Speaker 3: first astrology related scandal. But let's talk about Nancy.

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Speaker 4: When I started looking into this, the first place I

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Speaker 4: looked was Nancy Reagan's memoir because I wanted to hear

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Speaker 4: her side of the story. It's called My Turn, and

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Speaker 4: it was very pointedly a rebuke to Don Reagan's book

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Speaker 4: the year prior, and she basically disputed everything he said

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Speaker 4: and down played the role that her astrologer friend played

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Speaker 4: in the president's life, in her life, in everything, and

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Speaker 4: she said it was only minor schedule changes and it

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Speaker 4: only came about because she was so worried for her

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Speaker 4: husband's safety after the assassination attempt in nineteen eighty one,

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Speaker 4: and that she was driven to do this out of

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Speaker 4: a sense of duty and guilt.

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Speaker 3: If you really want to trace the influence of astrology

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Speaker 3: on the White House, this is the moment that Nancy

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Speaker 3: Reagan started casting about for help. And it was her

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Speaker 3: friend MERV Griffin.

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Speaker 2: Good morning everybody, and welcome to we report you.

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Speaker 7: I'd like her to Susan Stafford, our.

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Speaker 3: Host is come on, yes, game show legend MERV Griffin

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Speaker 3: who introduced her to Joan quickly.

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Speaker 4: Joan quidly was this Vasser graduate. She was very smart.

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Speaker 4: She came from a very wealthy knob Hill, San Francisco family. Initially,

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Speaker 4: Joan really tried to downplay her role in the Reagan's

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Speaker 4: lives because Nancy had asked her to do that. As

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Speaker 4: all of this controversy was boiling over, Joan really stuck

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Speaker 4: to the party line that well, no, I didn't have

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Speaker 4: that much influence. But when Nancy's book came out, I

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Speaker 4: think at that point Joan was like, screw you, Nancy.

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Speaker 4: You know it's me time now.

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Speaker 3: Uh huh.

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Speaker 4: She became briefly the most famous astrologer in the world right,

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Speaker 4: she was going to take advantage of it, and so

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Speaker 4: she started telling the story that in fact she had

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Speaker 4: controlled everything.

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Speaker 3: It's true Nancy's astrologer would take credit for helping to

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Speaker 3: appoint some justices, keeping the president safe, and even thawing

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Speaker 3: the Cold War. But the question in just how influential

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Speaker 3: was she and how much did she have the president's

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Speaker 3: ear on foreign policy. But before we talk about Nancy's friend,

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Speaker 3: Chapter three a short and incomplete list of modern politicians

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Speaker 3: who used astrology. If Joe Biden was consulting an astrologer

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Speaker 3: on major American issues, how would you feel would you

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Speaker 3: vote for an astrology believer? We interrupted the New York

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Speaker 3: City dinner party to ask that very same question.

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Speaker 5: It would feel more like the president was just rolling

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Speaker 5: the dice if that was how he was making decisions.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I would vote for a presidential candidate that used

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Speaker 3: astrology to guide their decision making, and I would think

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Speaker 3: that they were very wise.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely not.

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Speaker 3: I think that is absolutely no connection between being a

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Speaker 3: great president and the reading d the stars.

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Speaker 6: It's just not politically correct.

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Speaker 3: But the truth is, Reagan's interest in astrology does not

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Speaker 3: make him an outlier. Here's a list of modern politicians

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Speaker 3: who read their horoscope and checked it twice.

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Speaker 6: Why where.

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Speaker 3: Nixon was a quirky guy. Not only did he band

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Speaker 3: soup in the White House and eat cottage cheese with ketchup,

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Speaker 3: but he also valued the advice of astrologer Jene Dixon, who,

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Speaker 3: to be fair, also gave advice to Franklin Roosevelt, JFK

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Speaker 3: and the Reagans. But Nixon called her his soothsayer, and

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Speaker 3: not only did Jean visit him in the White House,

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Speaker 3: but she sent the president copious letters on national security predictions.

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Speaker 3: In fact, in nineteen seventy two, when she warned of

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Speaker 3: a threat on American soil after the Munich Olympics, Nixon

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Speaker 3: used her intel to alert Kissinger and to assemble a

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Speaker 3: counter terrorism unit for Yes, the only thing I remember

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Speaker 3: about Boris Yelson is that one time when he was

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Speaker 3: visiting Washington, he almost caused this international incident because he

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Speaker 3: left the White House grounds drunk in just his underwear,

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Speaker 3: desperate to find some late night pizza. This is true,

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Speaker 3: which I can respect. But Yeltsin was also an astrology head.

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Speaker 3: During his presidency, a naval captain revealed to the economists

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Speaker 3: that Russia had a secret institute that employed quote military astrologers.

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Speaker 3: Three friend when the French president's wife made accusations that

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Speaker 3: Midrand was only interested in his astrologer because he was

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Speaker 3: sleeping with her. The astrologer a former model and actress.

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Speaker 3: All these tapes of their conversations show that they had

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Speaker 3: a purely professional relationship, And on these tapes were incredible

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Speaker 3: things like Mitteran trying to understand the power struggles in

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Speaker 3: Russia through astrology. He was using the stars to vet

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Speaker 3: cabinet members, and most curiously, he was taking astrological advice

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Speaker 3: on how to handle France's role and entry into the

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Speaker 3: Gulf War. Anyway, all that's to say that a handful

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Speaker 3: of astrologers have had way more sway on world events

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Speaker 3: than any of us would like to think.

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Speaker 5: You know, I know, you know, you.

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Speaker 3: Know. Chapter four. What would Joan do? If we're to

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Speaker 3: believe Joan? Quickly? What are the many thing she helped

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Speaker 3: make happen was Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy's appointment. She

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Speaker 3: also claims to have planned the president's debate times and

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Speaker 3: delayed the timing of Reagan's cancer surgery, But perhaps most importantly,

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Speaker 3: Quickly takes credit for changing the president's opinion about Soviet

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Speaker 3: leader Mikhyle Gorbachev, As reported in the New York Times,

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Speaker 3: quickly battled to the map for three hours to convince

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Speaker 3: Nancy Reagan that her husband could trust Gorbachev. As Quigly said, quote,

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Speaker 3: the placement of his ruler Mercury, symbolizes to me that

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Speaker 3: despite his Russian training and origins, Gorbachev has the instincts

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Speaker 3: of a humanitarian. Joan also convinced the President to work

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Speaker 3: towards disarmament and to extend his trip in Europe to

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Speaker 3: hammer out in agreement.

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Speaker 4: The one thing everybody agrees on is that Joan Quickly

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Speaker 4: actually did help decide when the president traveled, because that

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Speaker 4: was Nancy's big fear after the assassination attempt. And so

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Speaker 4: I think everybody is pretty much in agreement that, yes,

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Speaker 4: Joan quickly helped identify days where maybe it wouldn't be

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Speaker 4: a good idea to go anywhere that you, for safety's sake,

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Speaker 4: you might not want to fly on that day. Maybe

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Speaker 4: fly the next day, or fly a couple hours later,

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Speaker 4: and that'll be safer for you. And nobody really had

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Speaker 4: a problem with that. Then it kind of shades into

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Speaker 4: this thing of like, well, if he's not making a

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Speaker 4: public appearance for a week, that's a big deal, right

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Speaker 4: because that affects what he's able to do as president.

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Speaker 4: And certainly Joan coming out and saying that she literally

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Speaker 4: told him that, based on his chart and Gorbachev's chart,

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Speaker 4: that they should sit down and talk. I mean that's

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Speaker 4: really explosive.

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Speaker 3: Well, especially at the time, right like where height of

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Speaker 3: the Cold War, there's like nuclear proliferation on both sides

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Speaker 3: in a massive way, and people are worried that someone

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Speaker 3: will hit a button and cause the end of the earth.

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Speaker 3: Like that's the idea of talking with your enemy at

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Speaker 3: that time was pretty significant.

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Speaker 4: People were very upset at the idea that this random

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Speaker 4: astrologer was influencing such big decisions when there was so

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Speaker 4: much at stay.

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Speaker 3: Do you think Reagan was actually using this advice? Was

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Speaker 3: this just going to his wife? What's the deal here?

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Speaker 4: So that was sort of the other question. Was this

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Speaker 4: Nancy's fault? Because everything back then was Nancy's fault. She

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Speaker 4: had this image of being this evil puppeteer of her

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Speaker 4: hapless husband who loved her so much he would just

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Speaker 4: do whatever she wanted, just.

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Speaker 3: To quick aside. Nancy Reagan was indeed ambitious for her husband,

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Speaker 3: incredibly ambitious. Jimmy Stewart once said that had Ronald been

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Speaker 3: married to Nancy earlier, he would have won an Academy award,

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Speaker 3: and Reagan's aids admit this too. They say that without

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Speaker 3: Nancy there would have been no Governor Reagan, no President Reagan.

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Speaker 4: She absolutely took a lot of heat for allegedly being

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Speaker 4: the power behind the throne, and so when this came

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Speaker 4: out that it was Nancy's friend making these calls, that

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Speaker 4: was more evidence that she was actually controlling him.

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Speaker 3: Chapter five, Sympathy for the Devil. Earlier in the show,

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Speaker 3: we skimmed over the fact that there was an assassination

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Speaker 3: attempt on Ronald Reagan. As he was leaving a speech

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Speaker 3: and walking to his limo. John Hinckley Junior, a delusional

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Speaker 3: individual who was trying to impress Jodie Foster, pulled out

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Speaker 3: a Rome RG fourteen twenty two caliber and he shot

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Speaker 3: it six times in less than two seconds. The first

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Speaker 3: five shots missed their mark. One hit Reagan's press secretary

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Speaker 3: Jim Brady in the head, another hitden agent in the

435
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 3: stomach as he put his body on the line. But

436
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: as the Secret Service pushed the President into the limo,

437
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 3: final bullet bounced off the car, ricocheting into the President's

438
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 3: lung and lodging just twenty five millimeters from his heart.

439
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 3: A few people would know just how close he'd come

440
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 3: to death.

441
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 2: Confirm the presidential it's currently where.

442
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 7: The president at the hospita.

443
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 3: It happened early in his presidency, on March thirtieth, nineteen

444
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 3: eighty one. And the truth is, in most discussions of

445
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 3: Reagan's legacy, it's glossed over. In his obituary in the

446
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 3: New York Times, the shooting isn't even mentioned until the

447
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 3: twenty fifth paragraph. So in the scope of things, it

448
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 3: just isn't thought about that much. But for Nancy Reagan,

449
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 3: it was something entirely different. Right, This was something she

450
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 3: could ever ever forget. As I was trying to sort

451
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 3: through all of this and put Nancy in context, Mary

452
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 3: sent me one more clip Nancy's appearance on The Tonight

453
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 3: Show with Johnny Carson.

454
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 5: Can I ask you about the astrology? You get tired

455
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 5: of answering that question? No, that's one of the things

456
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 5: you know that I want to hit the papers.

457
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 3: Wow, I know if you're looking at the video. Nancy

458
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 3: so clearly doesn't want to talk about this, but she will.

459
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 3: I know she's a trained actor, I know she's good

460
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 3: at playing the role of first lady. But still hearing

461
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 3: her say why she put faith in astrology, why she

462
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 3: needed to put faith in it, Well, it breaks your

463
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 3: heart where it breaks mine.

464
00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 7: You can't really describe what you go through, uh, when

465
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 7: your husband is shot and almost dies. And most people

466
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 7: didn't know that there were there were there were two

467
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 7: times that they came to me and said they couldn't

468
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 7: find his pulse. He was very close to going in

469
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 7: to shock and if he had, and that would have

470
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 7: been in Now, everybody has their way of handling that

471
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 7: particular kind of trauma, and that particular kind of trauma

472
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 7: is it's is very special. And I talked to my minister,

473
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 7: I talked to friends, and then I had a friend

474
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 7: call me and say, gee, they she he had talked

475
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 7: to this girl and woman and she could have told

476
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 7: me that Ronnie shouldn't have done a thing on that day, right,

477
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 7: And I thought, my Lord, I could have prevented it,

478
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 7: you know, And so I called her. I didn't think

479
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 7: I was doing anything, so wrong, and I still don't

480
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 7: think I did anything so wrong. It helped me through

481
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 7: a very really a very rough time, very tough time.

482
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 3: There's so many things about the ways the Reagans tell

483
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 3: their story, the way they talk about astrology that doesn't

484
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 3: really add up, from the governor's oath to the idea

485
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 3: that Ronald had never seen his horoscope except by accident,

486
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,479
Speaker 3: to dozens of other inconsistencies. Quickly had met the Reagans

487
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 3: before she actually worked on Ronald Reagan's governor's campaign. But

488
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 3: none of that stops this part from being true. Nancy

489
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 3: was desperately trying to keep her husband safe. That same year,

490
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 3: there would be an assassination attempt on Pope John Paul

491
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 3: the Second's life. Egyptian leader Anwar Sadat would be killed,

492
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 3: and world leaders really were under threat. Nancy's guilt it

493
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 3: kicked in because of all this, like why wouldn't she

494
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 3: try everything in her power to do that?

495
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 7: But the changes there were made were things like would

496
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 7: be better to leave that two o'clock or I mean,

497
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 7: you know, there wasn't any great and there were no

498
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 7: political decisions ever made on astrology. I didn't hurt anybody

499
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 7: except I embarrassed, Ronnie. I was sorry for that.

500
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 3: It's not that I'm enamored with Nancy Reagan all of

501
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 3: a sudden, but I don't laugh at her anymore because

502
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 3: faced with the option to do nothing or do something,

503
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 3: Nancy picked up the phones and work. Then she found

504
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 3: the best astrologer she could. She color coded her husband's calendar.

505
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 3: She feuded with Reagan's chief of staff over the details

506
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 3: of his schedule, and she fought fiercely to keep her

507
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 3: husband out of harm's way. And seeing the love she

508
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: poured into protecting him, it makes me feel guilty because

509
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 3: I didn't do everything I could for my dad. I

510
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 3: really didn't sure. I raised to see him, I tussled

511
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 3: his hair, I kissed his head, I dressed and shaved him.

512
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 3: I walked him to him from the bathroom. When he

513
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 3: was too weak to lift himself up from his chair.

514
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 3: I helped his frail body in and out of bed

515
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 3: and stuffed a pillow under his knees. I pulled his

516
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 3: socks off his shiny, hairless legs to keep him warm

517
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 3: when he napped, and I fetched his pulp mystery books

518
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: and refilled his bowl of shelled pistachios. I sat in

519
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 3: the hospital trying to decipher his mumbles and his moans,

520
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 3: and I put chips of ice into his mouth just

521
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 3: to watch him crunch at it and then smile. And

522
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 3: when he could barely respond anymore and the treatments weren't working,

523
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 3: I signed his life away. I ordered the morphine and

524
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 3: brought him home in an ambulance so he could breathe

525
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 3: his last breadth at home. I tried, I really did,

526
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 3: but I didn't do enough. I didn't pray, not the

527
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 3: way my mom and sisters did. I didn't hunt for

528
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 3: an ira a cure or research alternative medicines. I didn't

529
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 3: place a bet on the magical because my belief is

530
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 3: limited to what I understand, and I'll live with that guil,

531
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 3: not that there's any logic to it, because even if

532
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 3: I didn't believe, my dad did and couldn't, I have

533
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 3: put aside my pride to give him everything because everything

534
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 3: is what he gave me. Next week on Skyline Drive

535
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 3: more Being Sad next week is one hundred percent fun.

536
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 3: We are talking to moneyball statisticians who use astrology CNN's

537
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 3: house astrologer. They used to have a house astrologer. Astrology

538
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 3: in law School and BTS. That's right, We're going to

539
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 3: use astrology to figure out Korean supergroup BTS's next steps.

540
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know. I can't see into the future,

541
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 3: but I can promise it will be fun.

542
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 6: Bonetta Pictures, Sari Kendrick Becker.

543
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening. This show is written

544
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 3: by Taffy Prodessor Akner, Executive produced by Tappy Prodessor Acner,

545
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 3: based on a book by Tappy Prodess. I'm so sorry

546
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 3: these are credits for Fleischman is in trouble and reading

547
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 3: the wrong credits. That's a fantastic show. Go stream it

548
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 3: after this. This show, Skyline Drive is a production of

549
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 3: Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcast. It's hosted and written by me

550
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 3: Mongish particular. But you would not have made it to

551
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,720
Speaker 3: the third episode if it wasn't for all these lovely people.

552
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 3: Mary Philip Sandy is our Kanki loving supervising producer, and

553
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 3: she's now read every book in the world about the Reagans.

554
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 3: Go Quizzer. Mitro Bunschaii is our delightful senior producer and

555
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 3: gets the best wild tape seriously. Mark Loto is our

556
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 3: story editor and made me move Nancy Reagan from a

557
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 3: single paragraph in episode one to her own episode, and

558
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 3: this show is so much better for it. This episode

559
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 3: was mixed and mastered all the way in Bangalore by

560
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 3: the talented groove Shiva Rau, with scoring as always from Botany.

561
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 3: Check out his SoundCloud the insane music in between his

562
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 3: courtesy of the dopest Indian record label, Azabi Records, and

563
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 3: my pal Jimanchu Suri and so many other musicians. If

564
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 3: you want to hear all of this music, we linked

565
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 3: to a mixtape in the show notes. Go listen in

566
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 3: the kids. The kids were so great, right Numbers and

567
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 3: politicians voiced by my Dean Street neighbors Reese, the resident

568
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 3: pizza expert, Leav the resident panda expert, Miriam who does

569
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 3: the best Broadway show tunes in my backyard, and Yuki,

570
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 3: who is very very good at pointing out snails. Also

571
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 3: my very sweet and very noisy roommates, Henry and Ruby.

572
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 3: Special thanks to my remarkable neighbor and counsel Rachel Strom

573
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 3: for vetting this episode, and the Reagan Library, the fo

574
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 3: Your Ears Only Newsweek on Air collection, and Carson Entertainment

575
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 3: Group for all of their incredible archive. Thank you so much.

576
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 3: Additional production and research support from the wonderful Anna Rubanova Soundboard,

577
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 3: Lizzie the Natural, QB Jacobs, my talented aunts, Simon Buckshie

578
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 3: and notorious snooker hustler ur Jun Bucksheet. This show is

579
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 3: executive produced from iHeart by my good good friends Nicki

580
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 3: Toour and Patrina Norvel. Also all my brilliant power Else

581
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,919
Speaker 3: Like Kaleidoscope, Ozwa Listen, Kate Osbourne, Costos Linos Buying Shor

582
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 3: and also Cheesy it feels like Cheesy needs a shout

583
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 3: out right Kate Special. Thanks to all my friends of iHeart,

584
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 3: Shanta and Soros, my family everywhere. Dan Tabirsky. Dan Tibirsky

585
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 3: read this episode's warning. Today I got into podcasting true story.

586
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 3: I binged all four episodes of Missing Richard Simmons because

587
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 3: there were only four out at the time, and I've

588
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 3: binged every one of his other shows to Running from Cops,

589
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 3: Surviving Y two, k the Line. It is all so

590
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 3: incredibly good and just one last thank you as always

591
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 3: to my Amma and my dad, Lalifa and Umesh, who

592
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 3: I have to thank my lucky stars for Thank you

593
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 3: so much for listening,