WEBVTT - Randall Einhorn 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:04.440 I used to lead whitewater expeditions and somebody said you should, 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:07.000 you should start filming them, and I said, you mean, 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:12.039 like with a camera or something. All right, I'll try it. 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.360 I just wanted to go kayaking every day, and I 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:17.440 tried it, and I suppose I was okay at it. 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.160 And that's really what I tell you now that I'm 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:22.720 doing this, I really like it. I didn't plan on 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:31.000 any of this, but it's really fun. It is. It's fun. Hi. 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:34.000 My name is Randall Einhorn, and I am the executive 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:45.080 producer and director of the show Abbot Elementary. Hello everybody, 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:49.120 and welcome back to today's episode of Off the Beat. 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.160 This is your host, Brian Baumgartner. In a great mood 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:56.600 today because we have a very special guest, my old friend. 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:01.840 You know him, you love him, Randall Einhorn. He's a director, 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.000 he's an amazing cinematographer and as you know, he is 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:10.040 the guy who made the camera a character on the Office. 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.160 He made the show what it is, and that alone 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:17.040 makes him a legend. But it's no surprise that since 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:21.720 then he has worked on other huge shows Parks and Wreck, 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:26.520 Wilfred Fargo. It's always sunny in Philadelphia and most recently 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:32.480 Abbot Elementary. Since I had Randall on the office deep dive, 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.720 I've been wanting to get him back on off the 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:39.119 beat here and dive deeper into his whole career, all 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.920 of his work outside of the office, tracing the mockumentary 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:47.880 from the olden days of dunder Mifflin now to Abbot Elementary, 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:52.080 and will also answer some long awaited questions. What is 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:56.200 the future of network sitcoms? Is it okay that it's 0:01:56.240 --> 0:02:00.320 always sunny? Has such unlikable characters? What is the real 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:04.560 power of the camera? Randall, He's seen it all, and 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.120 he's filmed at all and I can't wait for you 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:14.120 to hear our conversation. So, without further ad here's Randall Einhorn, 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:25.520 Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and Squeak, Bubble 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:29.440 and Squeaker cook at every month left over from the 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:43.880 Knob people. Hello, what's up, buddy? How you doing? Brother? 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.520 How are you? I'm very well. You know. I didn't 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:51.040 reach out to you because I wanted my love to 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:56.320 just seep into your soul. I love seeing you for 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.079 the first time in such a long time. You look good, 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:04.160 you too? Wow? How are you. I'm good. It's it's been. 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:08.880 It's been good. It's been a busy time, but fun. Well, 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:13.600 you're the busiest man in television, as best I can tell, 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:17.360 it's been. It's been busy. Abbot kept me busy. We didn't, 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:19.760 you know, work long days, but you know we did. 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:23.119 We finished twenty two episodes and I directed ten of them, 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.000 like an idiot. Okay. So then I just took a pilot, 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:31.080 as you do. Um, no rest for the Wicked I was. 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:33.639 You know, I was planning on taking some time off, 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:36.840 but I just fell in love with another pilot. So 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.400 I'm doing a pilot. But before that, I shoot the pilot. 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:42.400 I'm going to go to do the Grand Canyon again. 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:47.240 You are, Yeah, fourth time in five years, two hundred 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:51.480 and twenty five miles of rafting. Really good, beautiful play. 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:56.680 So I'll have you know, some some ramble time. Yes, Now, 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.440 when you go back to your your your roots, and 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.280 we'll talk about that in a minute. You go back 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.680 to the to the bush, to the brush. Do you 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:07.640 cut off from the world, like, do you leave cell 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:11.680 phones at home? No? I take it for photos, okay, 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.960 but I mean you're not checking email or no, No, 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:17.320 there's no means to do that. I have a SAT phone, 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.440 but you can get text messages. But I'm you know, 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.120 what are you gonna do? Tell me when to get back? Right? 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.200 What do you? Yeah? So do you take a SAT 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.920 phone in case, you know, you get injured in something? 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:33.160 That's that's what you do? Yeah, okay, Yeah, I've been 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.720 watching that show alone. Have you seen that show alone? 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:40.080 That's My friends show? Is it? Yeah? Yeah, I kind 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.520 of I've kind of gotten sucked in a little bit 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:46.000 to it, and I think it's more what would be 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.720 the show that I would be least likely to participate? 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:55.040 That would be it. That's probably it. Yeah, that's probably 0:04:55.560 --> 0:05:01.800 watching people skinning, by the way, expertly skinning squirrels and 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:05.960 being so grateful for that squirrel. Have you ever have 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:10.120 you ever ate squirrel? Yeah? Eaten squirrel? You have? It's 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:14.040 so bad. It's better than rat. You haven't eaten rat? 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:20.000 You have? Yeah, survivor one. They were eating rats because 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.400 there are a lot of rats around, okay, and there 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:24.040 was a little bit just left on the grill and 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.600 maybe maybe I might may have tried it. But if 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:31.760 you had squirrel like my choice, Yeah, it was yummy. 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.159 It was great. Did you prepare the squirrel? No? I 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:39.800 did not. My neighbors did. Yeah. Okay, Uh, this is 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.880 where we start with, so we can do a whole 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:47.359 episode of things Randall has eaten. No, I know that 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:52.119 we could. Actually, that's that is the thing that I know. Um. Look, 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.640 we've had you on before, obviously, and really we talked 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.560 about the office. I am not joking when I say 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:02.960 I think your story is one of the most interesting 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:07.400 in all of the thing we call Hollywood. Talk to 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.400 me a little bit now. I know. Originally you're from 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:14.279 the Cincinnati area, which is where my father hails from. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:20.200 For Thomas, Kentucky, since Entucky as they call it. Ye. 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.560 Did you have any interest in film filming when you 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.960 were a kid? No, none, whatsoever. I really didn't have 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:30.039 any interest in until I started doing it, you know, 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:34.760 until I started filming outdoor adventure stuff. Right. Yeah. I 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:38.679 used to lead whitewater expeditions and somebody said you should, 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.200 you should start filming them, and I said, you mean, 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:45.880 like with a camera or something, and all right, I'll 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.080 try it. I just wanted to go kayaking every day, 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.279 and I tried it, and I suppose I was okay 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:54.000 at it. And that's really but I tell you now 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.560 that I'm doing this, I really like it. I didn't 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.160 plan on any of this, but it's really fun. It is. 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.520 It's fun. It is so you were just like you 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:07.240 were just an outdoors men, like you just wanted outdoor adventure. 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:11.040 Could you have seen yourself just living that life for 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:15.640 your whole life? I still can, Ok, yeah, back pocket 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:17.880 In case the whole directing thing it doesn't work out, 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.720 I can go back to being a raft guide. Yeah. No, 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.520 I never. I never that was the plan. I just was. 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.800 I was guiding, and I was doing a lot of 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:29.840 kayaking and leading expeditions, and I figured that was what 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:31.880 I was going to do. I never saw myself getting 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.560 out of that. But you know, one thing led to 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:38.840 another and I got hired. I convinced Mark Burnett that 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.480 he should hire me to shoot the Whitewater sections of 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.960 Eco Challenge, which is a five hundred mile wilderness adventure race, 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.400 and he was foolish enough to hire me. And then 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:51.480 I convinced him he should hire me to be the 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:55.640 deep DP on Survivor one, and he did that, and 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.640 then all these years later, here I am. Yeah, and 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:02.480 you when you first started filming. Now, when you say 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.040 someone said you should film these things? Was this like 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:10.280 filming like for tourists, like just filming them going down 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:14.320 the river? Yep? Okay. I used to kayak ahead and 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.960 film film the tourists going down the rapids, and my 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.680 kayak on kayak down the next section of rapids. I 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:22.640 hop out and filmed the tourists and I'd sell them 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:26.680 photos and video. Okay. Yeah? And then how did you 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:31.400 get from there to convincing Burnett to hire you on 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.160 Eco Challenge? Like? What are the steps there? I was. 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:38.520 I was a sponsored whitewater kayaker and a lot a 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:40.320 bunch of kayaks, and a friend of mine was a 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:43.600 locations manager and he called me to ask if I 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:47.079 could help him find a river section for Eco Challenge 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:50.040 and got it. I had, like, you know, twenty kayaks, 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.640 and so Mark and I and my buddy the locations 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:56.200 manager went out and started searching for for river sections 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.600 to do with an Eco Challenge race. Yeah. And then 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.760 and then I think the interesting part is where I 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.880 came to the United States to after being away for 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.120 like twenty three years, and I was I was shooting 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:15.200 something for Ben Silverman. Yes, I was shooting Sean White 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:19.040 and Jeremy Jones in Jackson Hole right in Jacksonville, And 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:23.600 for some reason, you know, I was filming those guys 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.480 and Ben said, that's the guy who we need to 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:30.160 be the documentarian in the office. Like why he took 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:34.400 me from Jackson holl extreme skiing to that's the guy 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:38.760 we need, I don't know, but it worked out. So. Um. Yeah, 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.280 when that opportunity came up, were you all in Like 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:46.480 were you like, yes, I can do that. Yeah, I 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:53.680 do have this really foolish sense of bravada. Yes, okay, yeah, 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:58.320 you and I, You and I share that in some regards. Yeah, easy, 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.000 you can do it. Ye today, were you hesitant because 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.720 I mean, you're you're an outdoorsman, You're like doing, you know, 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.520 filming extreme sports and you're out there and you love 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.520 that stuff. Was there a part of you that was like, 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:13.760 well I could do it, but I think I'd rather 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.880 stay here Or were you did you see the path 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:22.400 changing for you and and and saw where that might lead? Um? 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.120 I was very aware of like, Okay, well now I'm 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.800 going to go from outside into an office and this 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.400 is not my happy place right Certainly I was aware 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.640 of that, But then I figured I could still go 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:35.920 to my happy place when I'm not working, which is 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.920 what I do now now. I go. I spend forty 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:43.600 to fifty sixty days a year doing outdoor stuff on 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:47.360 rivers and so forth. Yeah, but also also, you know, 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:49.640 I saw the pilot of the Office, and I thought, 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.199 that's that would be really fun to shoot to tell 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.640 jokes from the camera. I was very attracted to. Oh 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.760 so you saw the pilot. Yeah, would you saw the 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.439 pilot and you were like, Oh, I get this, I 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:06.080 can do this, or I can do this better. Yes, Yes, 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:12.080 that's very interesting. I don't think i'd heard that before. Wow. Yeah, 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.280 because I didn't do the pilot of the office, but 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:18.040 I remember Ben. You know, it's a really funny choice. 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:19.960 But I think for Ben to make is that I 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:23.360 can go extreme skiing with these these great, really talented athletes, 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.000 and that to think I could also do the office 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:30.360 for some reason, well, Ben is a crazy genius in 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.440 that way. I mean, let's be let's be clear. I 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:36.320 mean he's he sees things, you know. I mean it's 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.600 very well documented what he sees in business and the 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.480 and the business of film, but also talent as well, 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:46.800 that he sees things that mortals do not at times, 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:51.400 and we'll take an out of the box choice because 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:55.360 he feels it right. Yeah, and I mean to his credit, 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:58.440 I think you know, Greg, Greg and I hit it 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.480 off immediately. And Greg was you know, he said, you're 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.600 telling jokes with a camera. I'm like, yeah, I'm trying to. 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:08.000 He just Greg some you should direct some. I'm like, okay, 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.480 I'll try that. I'm sure I could do that. So 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:16.320 in terms of your move into directing, once you're on 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:20.120 the show, you're carrying the fifty pound heavy thing and 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:25.520 dping the show and Greg gives you an opportunity to direct. Now, 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.800 we talked before about what a one, what a bold choice, 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:33.280 and how thankful you are to him for giving you 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:38.200 that opportunity. Were you immediately kind of smitten by it? 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:42.800 Did you love it with directing? Yeah? Absolutely, as soon 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:44.840 as I got my chance, because I got to see, 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:46.520 you know, by this point, I don't know how many 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:50.280 episodes I HADDP. I suppose thirty or so, So I 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.720 got to see all these really great directors do great 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:57.280 and I got to see some do good and seeing 0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.439 what worked and what didn't work, and seeing what work 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:03.160 with actor is not necessarily other actors and seeing how 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.680 they influence the camera. Those were all That was a 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:10.000 great education. I mean that was a great education. We're 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:15.440 shooting thirty plus, you know, forty page scripts five days 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.120 a week, and I got to see it. I got it. 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:23.400 It was such a great school. Yeah. It occurs to me, however, 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:28.200 that in the world of unscripted, when you're out there 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:33.520 shooting say the first season of Survivor or Fear Factor 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:37.120 or certainly Eco Challenge, where people are going I don't 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:39.800 know how many miles per hour just down a rapid, 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:45.440 you are in a way directing yourself. Now, I'm not 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:50.120 dismissing there are directors who are working with you and 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.200 you guys are talking about stuff. But that's the thing 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:56.959 is that live in the moment shot you have to 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:01.360 make the choice because it's not repeatable, essentially correct, and 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.600 you know those those things. You know, there were producers 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.520 there who are basically writing down what happened. They weren't 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:10.680 saying can you get me a shot of this or 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:12.640 can you get me a shot of that? Oh? No, 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.199 you know, we were we were camera operators who were 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.080 telling a story. We're definitely self directing, right, you know, 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.080 they couldn't keep up with where we were going at 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.760 times because I would go out with you know, the 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:25.960 contestants on a raft, or I'd go on a hike 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:28.920 with them and i'd you know, tell them what happened 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.640 on the way back. But in the first one, they 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:35.080 really weren't. There's nobody really directing camera. Yeah. I mean 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:39.120 you've talked about how how reality wasn't really your thing, 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.400 but clearly it taught you a lot at how do 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.120 you how do you think it prepared you for your 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:49.160 next career? I do think reality television makes gives people 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:53.120 some some people really great skills. It makes you know, 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:58.280 camera operators more autonomous and more story forward, so they're 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:01.280 telling the complete parts of a story. Worry. It also 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:05.160 does wonderful thing for editors. Editors are just taking this 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.840 mess of footage and weaving it into a story. So 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.560 editors are doing what writers normally do right into reality television. 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.320 So I think it gives everybody very very high level 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.480 of skill. It's also just the hours on the camera 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.880 or under the camera, shooting eight hours a day and 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.920 trying to make it look artful. That's great training. Whereas normally, 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:32.360 like on a TV show, but you're really rolling the 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.640 camera maybe two hours a day or something like that. Right, 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.040 It occurred to me when you were just talking. Do 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:43.520 you feel like when you were shooting there's a mess 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.000 of footage? Right, there's guys, you know, eating bugs or 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.320 surviving in one way or the other, or going down 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:54.920 the river. Do you feel like you started to self edit? 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.680 Did you start to construct shots thinking about how it 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.640 would fit together to tell a story of even a 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:05.440 character that you were watching. Absolutely, you know, I certainly 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.600 self editing and making a shot end and making a 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.360 story end and knowing how you know, just to let 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.320 them walk their foot go through the frame and they 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:16.480 walk off into the distance and you end the shot 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:18.440 and the shot at a big wide shot. So, I 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.840 mean the reality television it gets you, you know, how 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:24.600 you come into a scene and how you get out 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.120 of a scene. The stuff that happens happens in the middle. 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.120 That's up to them saying interesting stuff. But at the 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.640 beginning of a scene, the end of a scene, you 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.520 should be able to create those as as a camera operator. 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.560 Was there anything about the reality or unscripted that lent 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:44.160 itself to comedy specifically? Not really? Okay, you know, just 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.960 being that observational, verite style documentary that we were shooting, 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:50.400 just being a fly on the wall. I think it 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.520 was interesting. I don't know that it lent itself to comedy, 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:56.760 right per se. I think that, you know, yeah, but 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:01.160 it's interesting because you you know, you were obviously an 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.960 active participant as you were holding the camera in the office, 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:10.520 and oftentimes, you know, you would find things that were 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:14.960 happening in the room that buttoned a joke or buttoned 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:19.480 what was saying that wasn't necessarily scripted by a writer. 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.240 I guess that's sort of where I'm going with this, 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:29.000 Like somebody says something that the camera into the person 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.720 operating the camera into it's as funny, and there's one 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.080 of your famous like quick zip ins to a face 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.920 and then a pan over. You know a lot of 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.520 that stuff, and I don't think you guys ever got 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:43.719 as much credit as you deserve for that. I mean 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.920 a lot of that times when people are laughing out 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.640 loud as they're watching the show is due to what 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.119 you guys are doing with the camera as much as 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.080 the actors, as much as the writers or anything else. 0:17:54.480 --> 0:18:16.680 Thank you. Yeah, we talked a lot about the office. 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:18.879 If you want, you can go back and listen to 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.520 Randall's deep dive into the show. He was great. I 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:26.639 made him cry. I remember that. Thanks man, But one 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:31.159 of the shows that comes out of the gate for you, Randall. 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:36.359 He begins getting opportunities to direct other shows, and Greg 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.000 Daniels lets him go, and eventually he decides that it's 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:41.600 time for him to move on and take that fifty 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:45.600 pound camera off his back and begin directing. My recollection 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.000 is is that you got hired to do a full 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:52.680 season of It's Always Sunny? How did that come about? Yeah? 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:54.240 I did. I got I got hired to do a 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:56.560 full season of It's Always Sunny. And when I first 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.080 I don't know if I can say this on here, 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:01.800 you can say whatever, say whatever. But I watched it 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.480 and I'm like, I don't know, it's I don't think 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.200 it's sad. It's not me. And I remember my agent 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.760 at the time he says, smoke a joint watch four. 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:17.639 So I'm like, oh no, this is really funds pretty 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:21.360 good stuff. And I took it. I took the job 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:23.560 and I had a blast doing that. I had a 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.200 really good time on Sonny. It was it's really fast, 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.119 and I remember coming into it and the director I 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.440 watched for a couple of days on sad he says, look, 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.320 there's not much you can do. It's four people all 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.280 at once, like well, surely punctuation, so you know, I 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.920 can punctuate the jokes. I could certainly give you some 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:44.200 help with the comedic timing, but it came pretty well 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:46.840 banked because they all wrote it and then they all 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:49.119 acted in it. So what I could do there is 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:53.280 actually create ins and outs and punctuation to jokes and 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:55.560 had a blast doing And I love those guys. Why 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.240 do you think you were hired? Was there an experience 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.000 that that you had that that made them want want 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.119 you to come on for such a long time? I 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.639 think telling jokes with the camera from the office that 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.720 they did see that I could tell jokes and start 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.639 scenes and begins you know, get get obviously at the beginning, 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:14.840 middle and the end, but also in a way that 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:19.760 amplified the comedy. Yeah, you know, it's always sunny. Is 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:25.520 certainly a cruder show, isn't the right word? Very different 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:30.080 than the office at that time or parks and recreation. 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.480 How was that for you working on that? Being so 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:37.960 different from where you had come from. You know, there 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.080 was always a lesson, I think, and everything they were 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:43.280 doing there there was a lesson by doing the wrong thing. 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:47.720 They there are points of view, were deplorable and completely wrong, 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:49.960 but in doing so there was a message I think 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.800 behind that. Yes, I mean all those characters, they're all 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:58.000 good people who were talking about things that um were 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:02.159 relevant and important to them at the time and culturally important. 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:04.639 It's just that they were doing the wrong thing to 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:08.240 talk about it, and that was pretty funny. Yeah, It's 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:10.960 like Michael Stodd, Michael Scott was not that he was 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:13.399 always you know, it wasn't saying the right thing, but 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:16.080 it wasn't It wasn't mean spirit. It was just coming 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:19.120 from a place of not knowing any better, right, Yeah, 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.159 I mean, I think the difference is and that's actually 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:25.000 my argument now for when people say you couldn't you 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.399 couldn't make the office today. You know, for me on 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:33.200 the office when he would say or do something inappropriate, 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.560 I don't know, to say the least, you had fifteen 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:41.280 other people telling you that that was not good what 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:43.440 he said. So it was an example, I think, and 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:46.760 always sunny. We didn't always see the other side of it, 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:50.600 which which just yeah, it's just that the tone of 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:54.080 it is different. What do you see as the show's 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.480 heart always sunny? I mean, I suppose the show is 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:00.280 hard as they have each other. As deplorable as all 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:03.240 of them are, they still have each other, right, And 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:07.280 I think that it's it's you know, leading leading by 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.400 bad example, right, all the all their things that they 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.040 gang does, this, gang fights, this gang fights that they 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:17.520 do it all in the wrong way. But they know 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:19.480 where they're all coming from. They know what the point 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:22.920 of view is. It's coming that they want to portray. Yeah, 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:26.520 so you you start in reality, you know, then you're 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.560 doing mockumentary. Now you're doing a show for an extended 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:34.800 period of time that the camera style is totally different. 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:37.639 Did you find that challenging in a way or were 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:41.760 you just continuing to roll down a trajectory? No, you know, 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:45.360 I mean, for me, form follows function, and from day 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:47.200 one that I started on, it's always sunny. Is like, 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:49.560 I should have three cameras here because you want you 0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:51.560 want this, you want bat and you want the Master. 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:54.480 You know, it's this not a precious show. It doesn't 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:57.320 need to look great. We should have three cameras rolling 0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:00.600 on this, and so I introduced the third camera to 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:04.160 my seasons It's Always Sunny, and they've never shot ever 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:07.480 again without three cameras, right, So that show is shot 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:10.680 in three days. An episode of It's Always Sunny shot 0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:13.480 in three days because it's three cameras going all at once. 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:17.560 And you know, to me that was the style of 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:20.920 the show is already established, and I don't think it's 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:24.520 a director's job to go and a guest director to 0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:28.760 go create something that's, you know, not consistent with the 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:31.320 rest of the season. So I think guest directing it's 0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:34.199 always about doing the best job you can within the 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:37.960 constraints of the show and within the style of the show. Right. 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:43.680 But that's pretty genius in terms of you seeing, well, look, 0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:45.919 we're not going to change the style. We're just going 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:50.840 to make things more efficient and potentially at least more alive. 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:55.560 I e. The fewer takes you have is always better 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:59.240 as long as you can get it right. That makes 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:02.400 so much that I didn't know that there's that sense. 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:04.960 I think there's this thing if an actor thinks you're 0:24:05.000 --> 0:24:09.480 going to do ten takes like some directors do on 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:12.359 all shows, you see that there is a point of 0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:16.520 diminishing returns and being aware of those. If you're going 0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:18.000