1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 2: This is part two of our two parter on the 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 2: Dictionary Wars, and unlike a lot of our two parters, 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 2: I think this one probably stands on its own pretty 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: well if you're listening out of order, because in part 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 2: one we talked about the lives of Noah Webster Junior 9 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 2: and Joseph Emerson Worcester. They were both born in New England, 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 2: both went to Yale University back when it was a 11 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: very small school known as Yale College. Both of them 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 2: compiled multiple dictionaries during their lifetimes. But beyond that, these 13 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: two men were really pretty different. Webster was known for 14 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: being hard to get along with and opinionated, and for 15 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 2: doing stuff like publishing praise of his own work and 16 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: attacking his critics under false now as, Wooster's reputation was 17 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: more as a kind, patient, careful man with very high 18 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 2: standards for research and for accuracy. Webster advocated for the 19 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 2: United States to have its own English language and literary tradition, 20 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 2: including following different standards for spelling. Wooster, on the other hand, 21 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 2: meticulously cross referenced a lot of different sources to arrive 22 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: at what he believed to be each word's best current use. 23 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 2: If he concluded that that best use currently was a 24 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 2: British one, that is what he went with. A lot 25 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 2: of prominent people and institutions thought Worcester's dictionaries were more 26 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 2: accurate and more reliable than Webster's, and setting aside the 27 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 2: whole question of British or American influence on the language. Honestly, 28 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: they really weren't wrong. The Dictionary Wars grew out of 29 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 2: Webster's publisher's decision to have Woocester create an abridgment of 30 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,639 Speaker 2: one of his dictionaries, an abridgment that they hoped would 31 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 2: smooth out issues that were definitely there in terms of 32 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: inconsistency and accuracy and if you are really into this 33 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 2: whole story and also a bunch of family drama and 34 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: more of the broader historical context. The Dictionary Wars by 35 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 2: Peter Martin was one of the sources for this episode. 36 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 2: It has all that it's one of those books that 37 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: I really love. It's by an academic press, but also 38 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: really accessible. It didn't feel like reading it that I 39 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: was buried in an academic jargon. Noah Webster, Junior's American 40 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 2: Dictionary of the English Language came out in eighteen twenty eight. 41 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 2: It contained more than sixty five thousand words, along with 42 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: their definitions and usage examples. There were also etymologies, although 43 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 2: Webster's thoughts on etymology were informed by his belief that 44 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 2: the Biblical story of the Tower of Babel presented a 45 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 2: historical truth, and overall his etymological theories have been discredited. 46 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 2: This is a very large book printed into quarto volumes, 47 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 2: meaning that during printing each large sheet of paper was 48 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: folded twice to make eight pages. That meant that it 49 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: was expensive. Webster also had some vocal critics. He had 50 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: previously advocated extensive spelling reforms to American English, like dropping 51 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 2: all silent letters, standardizing which letters represented each sounds so 52 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: like both chorus and church start with ch So Webster 53 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 2: proposed spelling chorus as ko rus instead, more reflecting what 54 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 2: it actually sounds like. While there were people who thought 55 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 2: English spelling was nonsensical and did need to be reformed, 56 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 2: others found this whole idea absurd. Webster dropped a lot 57 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: of these changes, but not all of them from this dictionary. 58 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: But that also meant that the American Dictionary of the 59 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 2: English Language contradicted some of Webster's previously published material, and 60 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: there were also contradictions and errors within the dictionary itself, 61 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 2: like words spelled one way in their own entry and 62 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 2: then spelled differently in the definitions of other words. One 63 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 2: of Webster's most vocal public critics was a school teacher 64 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 2: named Lyman Cobb, who started publishing his own spelling books 65 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 2: and other resources rather than using Webster. Cobb started publishing 66 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 2: in depth criticisms of Webster's work in newspapers in eighteen 67 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 2: twenty seven. So Webster's publisher, Sherman Converse, wanted to put 68 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: out an abridged version of the American Dictionary of the 69 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 2: English Language, a shorter, more concise, single volume that would 70 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: ideally be free of at least some of the inconsistencies 71 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 2: and any asyncrasies that were scattered through Webster's original work. 72 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 2: Webster was pretty exhausted from the work he had already 73 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: done on this dictionary. He'd also moved on to another project, 74 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 2: which was a version of the Christian Bible, and Converse 75 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 2: knew that Webster would be deeply opposed to the kind 76 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: of changes that he wanted to make, so he teamed 77 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 2: up with Webster's son in law, Chauncey Goodrich, who was 78 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 2: a professor of rhetoric at Yale and had become heavily 79 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: involved in Webster's dictionary pursuits. They then hired Joseph Emerson 80 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 2: Worcester to do the abridgment and worked with him on it. 81 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 2: That kind of recaps a little brief part of Monday's episode, 82 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 2: and as we noted last time, Wooster had already built 83 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 2: a reputation for accuracy, thoroughness, knowledgeability, and just good research. 84 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 2: He was working on his own dictionary, one that would 85 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 2: be straightforward and suitable for general use as well as 86 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 2: use in schools. He had already abridged Samuel Johnson's seventeen 87 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 2: fifty five Dictionary of the English Language didn't really want 88 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 2: to abridge another dictionary. He also knew he would be 89 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 2: creating a dictionary that would be a direct competitor to 90 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: the one that he wanted to do on his own, 91 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 2: but he did finally take the job. Wooster started working 92 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: on this as the unabridged Dictionary was being printed and 93 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 2: Webster did know about this abridgement. He ultimately agreed to 94 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 2: send Worcester a copy of the first volume of the 95 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 2: unabridged version in July of eighteen twenty eight, before it 96 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: was publicly available. 97 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: But it became. 98 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 2: Clear pretty quickly that what Wooster was being asked to 99 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 2: do was not remotely what Webster would have wanted him 100 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 2: to do, and Converse and Goodrich intentionally cut Webster out 101 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: of the loop as much as possible because they knew 102 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 2: he wouldn't like it. Wooster was also in just really 103 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 2: an awkward position. He was anxious about how Webster would 104 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 2: respond to this abridgement, but he apparently had good Riches 105 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 2: and Converses full support, so it was like he was 106 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: doing what the people who hired him wanted him to do. 107 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: They liked it, but he knew that Webster himself would not. 108 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: During all of this, he had good Rich actually became 109 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 2: pretty good friends. 110 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: I understand this and I have a behind the scenes story. Okay. 111 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: He did have some disagreements with the publishing team, though 112 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: they wanted to include John Walker's Key to the Classical 113 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: pronunciation of Greek, Latin and Scripture proper names as part 114 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: of the dictionary. Since this was originally published in Britain, 115 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: including it in an American dictionary wasn't technically a violation 116 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: of American copyright law. But Walker's Key had been part 117 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: of the abridgment of Samuel Johnson's Dictionary that Worcester had 118 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: completed in eighteen twenty eight, and Wooster was afraid that 119 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: it would be seen as a conflict of interest if 120 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: it was part of Webster's dictionary as well. Ultimately, Worcester's 121 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: abridgment of Webster's dictionary came out as a one volume 122 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: work in a eighteen twenty nine. It was roughly half 123 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: as long as Webster's full version. Most of Webster's preface 124 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: and other introductory material were left out, Walker's Key was 125 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: added in. Worcester had also added some words and corrected 126 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: various errors and contradictions. This abridgment sold for six dollars, 127 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: compared to twenty dollars for Webster's unabridged dictionary. That seems 128 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: like a luxury item in the eighteen twenty Yes, the 129 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: twenty dollars dictionary extraordinarily expensive. Six dollars dictionary is still 130 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: pretty expensive. Like this was a lot of people really 131 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: couldn't afford to just have a dictionary in their home. 132 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: It was a lot of money. Unsurprisingly, Webster was outraged 133 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: when he saw the finished abridgement. He was really angry 134 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: about the changes themselves, but to add insult to injury, 135 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: it was obvious that a lot of the changes addressed 136 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: some of the criticisms put forth by Lyman Cobb. So 137 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: to Webster it felt like his own publisher had agreed 138 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: with his critics and made changes to his work behind 139 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: his back, rather than standing up for him. We mentioned 140 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: in Part one that Webster hated Worcester's abridgment so much 141 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: that he sold the rights to it. Ultimately, the buyer, 142 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: as we said, was his son in law, Chauncey Goodrich, 143 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: who bought the rights for a lot less than they 144 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 1: were probably worth. He kind of argued that he had 145 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: done a lot of unpaid work in preparing this and 146 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: other dictionaries. But Webster then also published his own, smaller 147 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: version of his dictionary with a different publisher. This was 148 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: a Dictionary of the English Language for the use of 149 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: primary schools in the Counting House, which he published through 150 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: Hezekiah Howe in eighteen twenty nine. This led to some fallout. 151 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: Converse's handlaying of the abridgement caused a huge rift between 152 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: him and Webster, and Converse went bankrupt in eighteen thirty three. 153 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: Good Rich had trouble finding a new p publisher for 154 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: Webster's work, because Webster had already demonstrated that if his 155 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: publisher did something he didn't like, he might just go 156 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: print another dictionary with a competitor. Finally, Goodrich found some 157 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: interest from Norman and Joseph White of New York, but 158 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: based on Webster's track record, they required him to sign 159 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: affidavits to try to prevent that same thing from playing 160 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: out again. This seems to have led to some back 161 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: and forth during which the publisher kept pushing Goodrich to 162 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: get Webster to sign on to increasingly restrictive terms. During 163 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: all of that back and forth, Goodrich also convinced Webster 164 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: to sign over not only the rights to the abradement, 165 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: but also ownership of the plates that had been used 166 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: to print them. Webster did this, also signing a statement 167 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: that he had done so spontaneously and quote without the 168 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: solicitation or previous knowledge of any person. Whatever this was 169 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: really untrue, it added to the perception amongst a Webster's 170 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: family that Goodrich was taking advantage of him. It's kind 171 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: of hard to interpret it in any other way. Yeah, 172 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: about a year after this, Wooster was publicly accused of 173 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: plagiarizing from Noah Webster Junior. And we'll get to that 174 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: after a sponsor break. 175 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 2: As we already talked about, Noah Webster Junior was not 176 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 2: happy at all when he saw how Joseph Emerson Wooster 177 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: had abridged his dictionary. And then he was also not 178 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: happy at all when he saw Worcester's comprehensive pronouncing an 179 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 2: Explanatory Dictionary of the English Language, which came out in 180 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 2: eighteen thirty. In an eighteen thirty one letter, Webster claimed that, 181 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 2: among other things, Worcester had inflated the number of words 182 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 2: in his own dictionary by including terms from old dictionaries 183 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 2: that weren't even being used in English anymore. For a 184 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: lot of people we talked about, dictionaries were really expensive. 185 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 2: The deciding factor in deciding which one to buy a 186 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 2: lot of the time was just which one had the 187 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 2: most words. And so he was basically saying he boosted 188 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 2: his word count to be bigger than my dictionary just 189 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 2: with old, obsolete words to sell more stuff. 190 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: He puffed it up with blunderbusses. But then on November 191 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: twenty sixth, eighteen thirty four, an anonymous letter titled Webster's 192 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: Dictionary was published in the Worcester Palladium. We're just going 193 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: to call this newspaper the Palladium. It was named for 194 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: the city of Worcester, Massachusetts. It was not affiliated with 195 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: Joseph Emerson Worcester. Although this letter was published anonymously, it's 196 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: entirely possible that it was written by Noah Webster. He 197 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: already had an established track record of promoting himself or 198 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: criticizing others through anonymous or pseudonymous writing. This letter also 199 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: called for a stronger copyright law. That was something Webster 200 00:12:57,880 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: had vocally advocated for. 201 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 2: This letter set in part quote, A gross plagiarism has 202 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,239 Speaker 2: been committed by mister J. E. Worcester on the literary 203 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 2: property of Noah Webster, esquire. It is well known that 204 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,599 Speaker 2: mister Webster has spent a life which is now somewhat advanced, 205 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 2: in writing a dictionary of the English Language, which he 206 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 2: published in eighteen twenty eight into quarto volumes. Three of 207 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 2: regiments have since been made one in octavo form, and 208 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 2: two still smaller for families than primary schools. This letter 209 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 2: went on to say that Worcester had been hired quote 210 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 2: to aid in the drudgery of producing these abridgments, and 211 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 2: then claimed that Worcester had appropriated the quote labors, acquisitions 212 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 2: and productions of mister Webster to his own benefit. The 213 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 2: letter claimed that Worcester's dictionary was quote a close imitation 214 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,599 Speaker 2: of Webster's and expressed some regret at how many primary 215 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 2: schools were now using it. This basically ended with a 216 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 2: buyer beware that people should look into how Worcester got 217 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 2: this work before purchasing it. One of Worcester's friends saw 218 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 2: this letter and told him about it, and on December tenth, 219 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 2: The Palladium printed is his response. 220 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: His response called these allegations grossly false. A letter war 221 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: followed in the pages of The Palladium, with the first 222 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: letter actually signed by Webster himself on January twenty fifth, 223 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: eighteen thirty five. This signed letter included a list of 224 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty one specific words that Webster claimed 225 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: had been taken from his dictionary. That added one hundred 226 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: words to an earlier list that had been published in 227 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: a different letter, Worcester countered by citing other earlier dictionaries 228 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: that had included all those same words, including thirty seven 229 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: that were found in his own abridgement of Samuel Johnson's Dictionary, 230 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: which had come out before Webster's. He also pointed out 231 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: a handful of words that Webster claimed Worcester had lifted 232 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:01,119 Speaker 1: from his work, but which were not actual in Webster's 233 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: dictionaries at all, and he noted that compiling a dictionary 234 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: does not give a person ownership of the words in it, 235 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: that the words belong quote to all who write and 236 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: speak the language. Webster's response conveniently dropped the charge of 237 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: copied words, moving on instead to other alleged wrongdoing on 238 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: Wister's part, with those wrongs, including actually citing Webster's work 239 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: in places where he cited it. So first Webster had 240 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: claimed that Worster copied his dictionary without attribution, and then 241 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: he later complained about Webster having actually cited him specifically, 242 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: including giving attribution to him where it was due. Basically, 243 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: Worcester kept responding to Webster's allegations, but then Webster kept 244 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: moving the goalposts and trying to make sure he had 245 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: the last word. This is like every Reddit argument. It 246 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: really is. You didn't give me credit, Yes I did. 247 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: We'll keep my name out of your mouth like I don't. 248 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: You can't win. There's no way. When this letter war 249 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: fizzled out, it had gone on for well over a year, 250 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: Wooster found all of it enormously upsetting. He had always 251 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: been so careful and so methodical, and this kind of 252 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,119 Speaker 1: attack on his character and his work was particularly hurtful. 253 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: He had also put extensive research into his own dictionary, 254 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: including collecting an enormous library of works on lexicography. Aside 255 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: from that, though, he just was not the kind of 256 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: man to have a big public letter war in the 257 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: pages of the newspaper, and he hated that he had 258 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: been dragged into one. 259 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: About eight years after the end of this dispute in 260 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 2: the pages of the Palladium, on May twenty eight, eighteen 261 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 2: forty three, Noah Webster Junior died. His executors seemed to 262 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 2: have understood that the work he left behind was both 263 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 2: valuable and a liability. There were just so many different 264 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 2: editions of his dictionaries and his other published work, just 265 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 2: also so many inconsistencies among them and within them. Webster 266 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 2: had named five executors, with his son in law William 267 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 2: Ellsworth chief among them. Elswhere seems to have had a 268 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 2: vision for his father in law's legacy, basically to make 269 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: Webster's synonymous with quality and consistency, to turn the dictionaries 270 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 2: into a standard, uniform resource all across the country. To 271 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 2: do this, he had to deal not only with Webster's 272 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 2: erratic track record, but also with a lot of divisions 273 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 2: within the family. Webster's son in law, Chauncey Goodrich, had 274 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 2: played a huge part in the publishing of some of 275 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 2: his dictionaries, including connecting him to publisher Sherman Converse in 276 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 2: the first place, but Webster had fallen out with Goodrich 277 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 2: and Converse over their handling of Worcester's abridgment of his work. 278 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 2: Goodrich was not named as one of Webster's five executors, 279 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: which definitely seemed deliberate. Also, Webster had reduced Julia Goodrich's 280 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 2: share of her inheritance based on the income to be 281 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 2: earned from Worcester's abridgment, which is something that her husband 282 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 2: held the rights to. There were also disagreements within the 283 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:20,959 Speaker 2: family about Webster's philosophies on language and spelling. So to 284 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 2: transform Noah Webster into an icon of consistency and quality, 285 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 2: Ellsworth really had to get the whole family on board, 286 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 2: and he had to work really hard to do it, 287 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: getting sign off from everyone, regardless of whether they had 288 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 2: been named as an executor to the estate. He also 289 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 2: had to buy out a publisher that had bought partial 290 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 2: rights to Webster's original spelling book from his son William, 291 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 2: and he had to find someone to finish printing the 292 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 2: eighteen forty one American Dictionary of the English Language corrected 293 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 2: and enlarged. More than one thousand copies of this dictionary 294 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,199 Speaker 2: had been printed, but they were not bound, so they 295 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 2: couldn't be sold. That last one was tricky, that eighteen 296 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 2: forty one dictionary was a two volume work that wasn't 297 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: likely to sell as well as something that was more 298 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 2: compact and more affordable. But also having the pages just 299 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 2: sitting there already printed and unbound and unfinished, as like 300 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 2: something someone could buy like that was wasteful and it 301 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 2: represented a lost investment of both time and money. The 302 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 2: first buyer that Ellsworth found for these pages didn't wind 303 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 2: up doing anything with them, and the pages were then 304 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 2: eventually sold to Charles and George Merriam, who were printers 305 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 2: and booksellers based in Springfield, Massachusetts. The Merriams and Ellsworth 306 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 2: were of like minds on Webster's dictionaries and started negotiating 307 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 2: with other members of the family to print a new edition, 308 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 2: this time with Chauncey Goodrich as editor. Based on their history, 309 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 2: this does not seem like a hiring choice that Webster 310 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 2: himself would have approved of, or the members of his 311 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 2: family who thought Goodrich had taken advantage of him. It 312 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 2: just seems like a weird move. I mean, it's a 313 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 2: weird move in terms of people's feelings, but in terms 314 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 2: of putting out an accurate. 315 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Goodrich was totally aware of how 316 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: contentious him being the editor was likely to be, so 317 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 1: he insisted that there had to be immaculately clear communication 318 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: about everything from all parties involved. He wanted not only 319 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: to get the approval of everyone in the family, but 320 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: also to make sure that that approval was based on 321 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: a clear understanding that he was going to be editing 322 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: this dictionary as he thought fit, which meant in a 323 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: much more mainstream conservative way than Webster probably would have wanted. 324 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: Good Rich did do this editing work, and in terms 325 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: of Webster's proposed spelling reforms, Goodrich really wanted to keep 326 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: only the ones that had become fairly widely an adopted 327 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: among American English speakers, like dropping the U from words 328 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: like color or labor, or changing theater from tch e 329 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: a tr to tch e a t e r, like 330 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: a lot of those things that today are just we 331 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,959 Speaker 1: recognized they're spelled differently between American English and British English, 332 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: like a lot of these were the things that Goodrich 333 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: really kept in terms of the spelling reforms, so there 334 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: was no more women spelled wimmi n or as another example, 335 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: thumb without the silent B on the end. Goodrich also 336 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: wanted to get rid of any unsubstantiated etymologies and clean 337 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: up all the contradictions among the spellings and definitions. Basically, 338 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: there was so much that he wanted to change and 339 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: fix that he had to be kind of careful in 340 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: how he talked to the Miriams about it. He was 341 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: afraid that if he was super honest, he would make 342 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: them think that Noah Webster had not really known what 343 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: he was doing, and that putting out another dictionary under 344 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: his name would be a bad investment. Although most of 345 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: Webster's family eventually came around to the view that his 346 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: work really should be edited and standardized, another son in law, 347 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: William Fowler, did not. While the Merriams and Goodrich were 348 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 1: at work on a new edition of the Dictionary, Fowler 349 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 1: went to another publisher to work on a different abridgement, 350 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: one that left all of Webster's inconsistencies and eccentricities intact. 351 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: This led to the Merriams and various Webster sons in 352 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 1: law to hold a big meeting to do damage control, 353 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: both to make sure Fowler's edition of the Dictionary was 354 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: consistent with what they were doing and to remove him 355 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: from any editorial decision making. All of this strife and 356 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: family infighting eventually became so stressful that Goodrich thought pretty 357 00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: seriously about quitting. If you're like what happened to Joseph Wooston, well, 358 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: he was working on a new edition of his dictionary, 359 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,959 Speaker 1: and everybody involved with this new edition of Webster's Dictionary 360 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: knew about that and saw it as a threat. Wooster 361 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: did not need to clean up and standardize his work 362 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: before publishing it. It was already cleaned up and pretty standardized, 363 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: he already had a reputation as an exceptional researcher and lexicographer. Also, overall, 364 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: just sort of generally, Wooster's dictionaries had been better reviewed 365 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: and had sold better and been more profitable than Webster's 366 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: A lot of times this was just about the fact 367 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: that it was more concise, It was a more economical, 368 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: affordable book. So the Webster's team was working on a 369 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: new dictionary, knowing that it was very likely to have 370 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: a serious competitor, but without actually knowing when that competing 371 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: work was going to hit the market, what its format 372 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: would be, its intended audience, based anything else. Wooster's Universal 373 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: and Critical Dictionary of the English Language was finally published 374 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: in eighteen forty six, running almost nine hundred fifty pages long, 375 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: including about seventy five pages of introductory material. It was 376 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: based on Samuel Johnson's Dictionary, as edited by the Reverend H. J. Todd, 377 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: the same dictionary that Wooster had abridged earlier in his career, 378 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: with tens of thousands of additional words not found in 379 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: that dictionary. Wooster's eighteen forty six edition contained about eighty 380 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 1: three thousand words, which was more than any existing dictionary 381 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: in its preface, Wooster described this as an attempt to 382 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: make a complete vocabulary of the English language. He also 383 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: kind of obliquely referenced that earlier plagiarism claim leveled at 384 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: him by Noah Webster and that introductory material. He said, 385 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: quote with respect to Webster's dictionary, which the compiler several 386 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: years since abridged, he is not aware of having taken 387 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: a single word or the definition of a word from 388 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: that work in the preparation of this, but in relation 389 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: to words of various or disputed pronunciation. Webster's authority is 390 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: often cited in connection with that of English orthowapists, so 391 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 1: an orthowapist is someone who studies pronunciation. He also praised 392 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: Webster as the greatest and most important English lexicographer since 393 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: Samuel Johnson. The Merriams were not assuaged by any of this. 394 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 1: They started looking for any evidence they could find that 395 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: Worcester was lying when he said he had not taken 396 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: a word or definition from Webster's work. They tasked Webster's son, William, 397 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: with going through Worcester's new Dictionary to find examples of copying. 398 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: William did this but did not find anything. They also 399 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: called on experts to write review who's criticizing Worcester's work, 400 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 1: and one of those was Noah Porter of Yale, who, 401 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: among other things, suggested that Wooster had included absurd words, 402 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: some of them only ever used in writing once, just 403 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: to inflate the total. We should note here that the 404 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: Miriams were still making use of work that Worcester had 405 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: done for Webster while abridging Webster's earlier dictionary, So they 406 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: were really trying to frame Worcester as a plagiarist without 407 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: really acknowledging their ongoing use of his work that he 408 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: had done earlier for Webster and Chancey Goodrich and converse 409 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: in that abridgement. Let's try to discredit the guy that 410 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: fixed all the problems with this book we're trying to make. 411 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 1: The logic is sloppy. As we mentioned in Part one, 412 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: as Wooster's eighteen forty six Dictionary was being printed, he 413 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: was undergoing a series of eye surgeries, and afterward he 414 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 1: had partial sight in one eye and was blind in 415 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: the other. He was not reading anything during his recovery, 416 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: and it seems as though if any of his friends 417 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: or family members knew about Porter's criticisms or any of 418 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: the other controversy that followed it in the papers. They 419 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: did not tell him about it. Bless them honestly. 420 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 2: Yes, you don't need somebody telling you what they wrote 421 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 2: about you in the paper while you're recovering from multiple 422 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 2: eye surgeries. 423 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: In my opinion, let the man rest anyway. In eighteen 424 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: forty seven, the Miriams published The American Dictionary of the 425 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 1: English Language by Noah Webster, revised and enlarged by Chauncey A. Goodrich. 426 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 2: In terms of pages, this was much longer than Worcester's Dictionary, 427 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 2: more than twelve hundred pages, printed as a quarto. Worcester's 428 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 2: dictionary had been printed as an octavos. In addition to 429 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 2: having a larger page count, the pages of Webster's dictionary 430 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 2: themselves were a lot bigger. Basically, this looked like a 431 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 2: way heftier book. While this new dictionary still included some 432 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 2: of Webster's more unusual spellings, they were now accompanied by 433 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 2: more standardized ones, so this was no longer a dictionary 434 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 2: intended to establish a new American English language with new 435 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 2: modes of spelling, breaking away from the rules of British English. 436 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 2: It was a reference people could use to learn and 437 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 2: understand American English as it was spoken. Goodrich also included 438 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 2: Walker's Key, a piece that Webster himself had vocally objected to, 439 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 2: as well as work Worcester had produced for their earlier abridgement. 440 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: The Merriams also tried to clean up the image of 441 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 2: Webster himself, including through biographical pieces in newspapers and magazines 442 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 2: that were meant to bolster his image as both a 443 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 2: lexicographer and as a person. In eighteen forty nine, Worcester 444 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 2: finally became aware of Porter's critique of his work that 445 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 2: had come out while he was recovering from surgery, as 446 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 2: well as the controversy that had unfolded in the press. 447 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 2: He expressed some shock that a Yale professor would, by 448 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 2: all appearances, basically put out a hit piece on him 449 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 2: at the direction of a publisher. He also defended himself 450 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 2: against the various allegations that had been levied against him 451 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 2: while he was recovering, and Charles Meriam countered that it 452 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 2: had actually been Worcester's own publishers who had started it. 453 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 2: This all took a weird turn a few years later, 454 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 2: and we're going to start talking about that. After we 455 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 2: paused for a sponsor break. In early August of eighteen 456 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 2: fifty three, Joseph Worster saw an ad for a dictionary 457 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 2: that had been published in London in eighteen fifty one. 458 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 2: This dictionary carried both his name and Webster's name on 459 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 2: the title page, but it did not seem to be 460 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 2: the ridgment that he had created for Webster back in 461 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 2: eighteen twenty nine that would have made sense to have 462 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 2: both of their names on it. It was his own 463 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 2: eighteen forty six dictionary, but with Webster's name added to it. 464 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: Wooster wrote to John H. Wilkins at his publisher, Wilkins, 465 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: Carter and Company, asking what was going on. Wilkins said 466 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: that a colleague, James Brown of Little Brown and Company, 467 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: had gone to Europe, and that Wilkins Cartering Company had 468 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: given him permission to find a British publisher for Wooster's work. 469 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: When a publisher was found, Wilkins had shipped him the plates. 470 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: The British publisher, Henry G. Bond, had not printed this 471 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: book right away as agreed, and when Wooster's publisher got 472 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: in touch with him to ask him why, he kind 473 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: of implied that he might back out of the deal. 474 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: Sky seems to have been kind of shady. When Bond 475 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: did finally print this dictionary, he removed U. Worcester's assertion 476 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: of having not taken a single word or the definition 477 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: of a word from Webster, and then added Webster's name 478 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: to the title page. Wooster's US publisher was understandably baffled 479 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: and wrote to Bond demanding an explanation. Bond later made 480 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: a statement that he had genuinely thought that what he 481 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: had was Wooster's abridgment of Webster's dictionary, and when he 482 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: realized it wasn't, it would have been too difficult and 483 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: expensive for him to fix the mistake, so he just 484 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: went ahead with it. Listen, this doesn't really make sense, 485 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: but that was his claim. Yet he had to make 486 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: changes to the thing to make it different from the 487 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: work he had received. I honestly don't know what was 488 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: going on. And then I was just in too deep. Yeah, it's. 489 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 2: I don't know if he thought that by adding Webster's 490 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 2: name it would sell better or exactly what. 491 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense. Uh so this would have been 492 00:31:58,360 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: bad enough. 493 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 2: Right like this, I had printed something that was Worcester's work, 494 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 2: but he had put Webster's name on it, but then 495 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,239 Speaker 2: the Miriams picked this up and then tried to use 496 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 2: it as evidence that Worcester was somehow unscrupulous, even though 497 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 2: this whole thing was entirely beyond his control. The Miriams 498 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 2: also printed a pamphlet in May of eighteen fifty three 499 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 2: titled The English Dictionaries of Webster and Worcester, full of 500 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 2: testimonials that praised Webster as well as criticisms of Worcester, 501 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 2: and claims that Webster's work included errors that Webster had 502 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 2: made in earlier dictionaries but corrected in later ones, to 503 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 2: sort of implying that he had been copying not just 504 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 2: from Webster but from like old, inaccurate Webster. Five months later, 505 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 2: Worcester countered with a pamphlet of his own titled A 506 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 2: Gross Literary Fraud Exposed, relating to the publication of Worcester's 507 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 2: Dictionary in London, which walked through how a British publisher 508 00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 2: had added Webster's name to his own work without Worcester's knowledge. 509 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: Wooster also tried to get some backup from people who 510 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: knew the whole story of his abridgment of Webster's dictionary 511 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: and could speak to his work and his character. He 512 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: tracked down Sherman Converse, publisher of the earlier abridgment, and 513 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: Converse defended him. Wooster printed Converse's defense in a later 514 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: edition of his pamphlet, and this led to a prolonged 515 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: dispute between Converse and the Merriams that went on for months. 516 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: William Draper Swan of Worcester's new publisher, Jenks Hickling and 517 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: Swann also published a forty five page pamphlet titled a 518 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: Reply to Mister G. 519 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 2: And C. 520 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: Merriam's Attack on the character of Doctor Wooster and his 521 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: Dictionaries that came out in eighteen fifty four. 522 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 2: Worcester also tried to get the support of Chauncey Goodrich, 523 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 2: who he'd had a good working relationship with during that abridgment, 524 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 2: but Goodrich's support at this point was kind of half 525 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 2: hearted at best. He kept doing kind of a both 526 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 2: sides maneuver, qualified buying any defense of Worcester with his 527 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 2: own defense of the Miriams, so saying things like he 528 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 2: didn't think they intended to malign Worcester's character. It really 529 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 2: seems like Goodrich felt like he was caught in the 530 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 2: middle of a dispute that he did not want any 531 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 2: part of. He was in his sixties. He really wanted 532 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 2: to be resting and looking after his own health and 533 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 2: not in this mess. 534 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: I'm just picturing him going, why did I ever take 535 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: that job? At this point, that back and forth in 536 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: the Worcester Palladium repeated itself on a grander scale, with 537 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: Worcester and the Merriams each publishing pamphlets, including in March 538 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,240 Speaker 1: of eighteen fifty four a gross literary fraud exposed relating 539 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: to the publication of Worcester's Dictionary in London as Webster's Dictionary. 540 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 1: That was not a do over of Worcester's pamphlet. It 541 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: was by the Merriams using a nearly identical title to 542 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 1: the one that Worcester had used. It seems like at. 543 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 2: Some point something passed between Goodrich and Worcester that led 544 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 2: to Worcester dropping this whole subject. Goodrich made a reference 545 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 2: in another letter that he hoped what he had just 546 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 2: said to Wister would have an impact, and then afterwards 547 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 2: Wooster did not respond to the Miriams again. He said 548 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 2: that this had been in a letter. Nobody has actually 549 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 2: found Goodrich's letter. We don't really know what it might 550 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 2: have said. Whatever it was, though, it seems to have 551 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 2: destroyed these two men's previously friendly relationship. There's no other 552 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 2: surviving correspondence between them after this point. Kind of mysterious, 553 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 2: but Worcester seems to have given up. Meanwhile, the Merriams 554 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 2: and Jenks, Hickling and Swann were each promoting Webster's and 555 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 2: Worcester's dictionaries respectively. This included the Miriams using a quote 556 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,879 Speaker 2: from past podcast subject Washington Irving in their advertising. They 557 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 2: had sent him a copy of Webster's eighteen forty seven dictionary, 558 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 2: and he had thanked them for it, saying it was useful, 559 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 2: but noting that he wasn't making it his standard for spelling. 560 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 2: But the Merriams framed this in their advertisements almost as 561 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 2: an endorsement. He wasn't happy about that. Who would be 562 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 2: the rivalry between Webster and Worcester, which, again, rivalry not 563 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 2: the greatest word. This was mostly instigated and perpetuated by 564 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 2: the Merriams. This continued as Worcester put out another dictionary 565 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 2: in eighteen fifty five, and then the Merriams hired Webster's 566 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,359 Speaker 2: old critic, Lyman Cobb as an editor for a new 567 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 2: Webster Dictionary. Then, when the Miriams heard that Wooster was 568 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 2: planning an illustrated dictionary, they scurried to commission a bunch 569 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 2: of woodcuts for their next edition of Webster's Dictionary. The 570 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 2: pages of that dictionary had already been set, though, so 571 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 2: these woodcuts were printed in a special section at the beginning. 572 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 2: So instead of say, having say like apple with a 573 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 2: little woodcut picture of an apple next to it, the 574 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 2: apple picture would be in a separate section at the 575 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 2: beginning of the book. These woodcuts were also criticized as 576 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 2: not being particularly good in their quality, which is not 577 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 2: really surprising if they were a rush job. However, the 578 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 2: Miriams did beat Wooster to market with this dictionary plus 579 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 2: woodcuts section that came out in eighteen fifty nine, and 580 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 2: Wooster's two volume Illustrated Dictionary of the English Language came 581 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 2: out the following year. This last dictionary of Wooster's was 582 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 2: very well received, with some reviewers declaring him the clear 583 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,919 Speaker 2: winner in the rivalry between Webster and Worcester. For Worcester's part, 584 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,839 Speaker 2: he avoided getting involved in any of the press about it. 585 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 2: He was upset that this so called rivalry had ever 586 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 2: even happened, and the start of the US Civil War 587 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 2: in eighteen sixty one made all of it just seem 588 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 2: even more frivolous. Joseph Emerson Worcester died on October twenty seventh, 589 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 2: eighteen sixty five. William Draper Swan had died about a 590 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 2: year before, and that left Wister without one of his 591 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 2: biggest defenders, both in public and as a publisher. Publisher J. P. 592 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 2: Lippencott bought the rights to Worster's dictionaries, and they've remained 593 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 2: in print for decades afterward, But soon it became obvious 594 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 2: that Webster had really become the bigger brand. This was 595 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 2: especially true after the publication of Webster's An American Dictionary 596 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 2: of the English Language in eighteen sixty four. Just to 597 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 2: be clear, Miriam Webster is still my go to source 598 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 2: for spellings and definitions and pronunciations of American English today, 599 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 2: including looking up how to say or Theowhapist for this episode, 600 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 2: which according to Webster can also be or Theopist. But man, 601 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,319 Speaker 2: is it weird how we got here? 602 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: Yeah? It's really a big uh. There's a lot of 603 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,800 Speaker 1: pr involved, But I too use I call it m 604 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:58,839 Speaker 1: dub because that's how we roll at our house. We're 605 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: so familiar with the Merriam Websters. I mean that's my 606 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: go to as well, but woof's by the backstory. 607 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's a lot of other style guides like 608 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 2: the Associated Press Style Guide, Theicago Manual Style Modern Language 609 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 2: Association either like prefer a Webster's Dictionary as their preferred 610 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 2: dictionary or include a Webster's Dictionary among their preferred dictionaries, 611 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 2: like it, like it really has become a standard resource. 612 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: So it's just it's even knowing. 613 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 2: What the publishing industry could be like, both in the 614 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 2: US and the UK in the nineteenth century. Knowing this 615 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 2: part of it still just makes it very weird to 616 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 2: me that we did get to this place where a 617 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 2: Miriam Webster Dictionary is like the preferred dictionary in a 618 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,879 Speaker 2: lot of different context but sort of started out as 619 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 2: something that was full of weird spellings and contradictions with 620 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 2: the dictionary itself. 621 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: Well, it also makes it seem like dictionaries are such 622 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: a hot commodity that you to be the first of market, 623 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: and I'm like, were they ever really that big of 624 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 1: an industry? Yeah, I think there's. 625 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 2: Some validity to the fact that they tended to be 626 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 2: so expensive that an individual household was probably going to 627 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,720 Speaker 2: buy only at most one, So being first to market 628 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 2: was really important. Just being first to market with a 629 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,320 Speaker 2: dictionary that has hastily created woodcuts in a separate section 630 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 2: at the front cracks me up, right. But then, like 631 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 2: that presumes that they didn't already have their one Do 632 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,720 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, hmm, that that whole 633 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 2: thing is kind of predicated on the idea that there's 634 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 2: always like a new searge of people looking for their 635 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 2: one and only diction, their one dictionary. 636 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, uh So, anyway, do you also have listener mail? 637 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,320 Speaker 1: Do have listener mail? This listener mail is from Echo 638 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: and Echo said thank you for doing the episode about 639 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 1: sudan Naga. Dear Holly and Tracy, Greetings from Tokyo, Japan. 640 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 1: I just wanted to drop a quick thank you note 641 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 1: for doing the Sudanaga episode. I remember that sudan Naga 642 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,360 Speaker 1: was one of many stories at my high school history class, 643 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,280 Speaker 1: and he is still somewhat popular historical figure in Japan. 644 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 1: I also wanted to tell you that it is easy 645 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 1: to understand that it was not easy to find detailed 646 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 1: information about sudan Naga and his family because back then 647 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: what he did was considered was a big shame, and people, 648 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: especially the relatives and people who would know sudan Naga 649 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: and his family just ignored the existence of Sudannaga and 650 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 1: the family so they would not be caught by officials 651 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 1: and jailed in the worst case is death penalty. So 652 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: Echo offers assistance for future Japanese episodes and says thank 653 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,280 Speaker 1: you again for your excellent work. You are my Tokyo 654 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: morning commute partners. Your show brightens up my dull and 655 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 1: boring time on my subway ride. PS. 656 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 2: I wanted to say I'm a cute dog or cat pictures, 657 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 2: but I have an allergy for that. I Mcjamany's pickles 658 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 2: using Rice brand and they are lactic acid and too 659 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 2: small to. 660 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: Take a photo. 661 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 2: And I'm like, I'm very intrigued by that idea anyway, 662 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 2: even even if it's too small. 663 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 1: So thank you so much. Echo. 664 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 2: It is always nice to hear from folks who are 665 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,439 Speaker 2: living in a place that we talk about on the show. 666 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,800 Speaker 2: In that place, because we talk about the United States 667 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,359 Speaker 2: a lot, because that's where we are and that's where 668 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 2: most of our listeners are, and so it's always great 669 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 2: when we have something that is from other parts of 670 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 2: the world hearing from people in those places also, So 671 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 2: thank you so much if you would like to write 672 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 2: to us about this or any other podcast or a 673 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 2: history podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. We're also all over 674 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,600 Speaker 2: social media at Mister in History. That's where you'll find 675 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 2: our Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, and Instagram. And you can subscribe 676 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,160 Speaker 2: to our show on the iHeartRadio app. And we're for 677 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 2: else you'd like to get your podcasts. Stuff you Missed 678 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 2: in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more 679 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 680 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.