1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:01,240 Speaker 1: T T. 2 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 2: Yes. 3 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 3: I feel like everybody in their mama was traveling this summer. 4 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, outside opened up and people could travel a lot more, 5 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 4: and everybody hit the streets hard. 6 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 3: Is there a travel newsletter? How are people all going 7 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 3: to the same destination? People I've never seen eat a 8 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 3: string of pasta ended up in Italy, all of them. 9 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 2: I don't know if there was some airline deals or what. 10 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 4: It's the same thing that was happening last year when 11 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 4: everybody was going to Mexico. 12 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 3: Right, I was like, is it a travel page that 13 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 3: I don't know about just telling us where to go? 14 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 3: How are we getting all these trends? And not only 15 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 3: are people going to specific destinations, but it feels like 16 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 3: the volume of travel is so much higher, especially compared 17 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 3: to what we saw in twenty twenty. 18 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 4: You know absolutely, I know that a lot of places 19 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 4: probably took a big hit when COVID hit. As far 20 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 4: as tourism goes and the rebound, I don't know if 21 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 4: they're found in, but it seems like everybody is getting out. 22 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 4: I'm T T and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. This 23 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 4: is Dope Labs. 24 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 3: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that makes us 25 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 3: hardcore science, pop culture, and a healthy dose of friendship. 26 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 4: This week, we're talking all about the tourism economy. Specifically, 27 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 4: we really wanted to know more about coastal tourism and 28 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 4: its effect on local communities and ecologies. 29 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 3: Let's get into the recitation. 30 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: So what do we know? 31 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 3: Well, we know that travel was really limited for the 32 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 3: past few years, and now it's wide open. People are 33 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 3: back at it. 34 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: Yes, everyone is outside. 35 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 4: And now that there's a lot of people that are 36 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 4: working from home, how we travel has changed a lot. 37 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 2: People are working from all over the globe. 38 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 3: And with folks working from all over the globe, I 39 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 3: know there has been some impact on these local communities 40 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 3: that they're traveling to. And I know that also because 41 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 3: I've been hearing about it a little bit, both in 42 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 3: Twitter threads and in comments on Instagram. 43 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: So what do we want to know? 44 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 3: I specifically want to know more about the tourism economy. 45 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 3: I can remember people talking about it at the height 46 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 3: of the pandemic, you know, like shutting down tourism, and 47 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, this is bigger than I thought. 48 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 3: It's not just Disney. 49 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 2: World, right. 50 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 4: I think I have an idea, but I want to 51 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 4: hear the specifics about how tourism affects indigenous communities. 52 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 3: I think travel is still baked into our way of life, 53 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 3: you know, and considering that even if you're not just vacationing, 54 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 3: but you might have to travel for work, you know, 55 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 3: conferences and stuff like that, or just one off traveling 56 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 3: to stay connected with your family and friends. And so 57 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 3: considering all of that, what can we do to be 58 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 3: more conscious travelers? 59 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: Let's jump into the dissection. 60 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 3: Our guest for today's lab is Sarah Stidola. 61 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: Hi. I am Sarah Stidola. 62 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 5: I'm the author of The Last Resort, which is a 63 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 5: book about the history, the future, the economy of beach tourism. 64 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 5: I'm a longtime travel writer, which is what ultimately led 65 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 5: me into writing this book. 66 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 3: When I think about summer and travel in summer vacation, 67 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 3: I immediately think about beach resorts. We started by asking 68 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 3: Sarah to walk us through the history of beach resorts 69 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 3: as we know them now. 70 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 5: I started out, and you know, the fifteen hundreds in 71 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 5: England as almost this wellness thing. 72 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: People would go to places that had springs. 73 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 5: They would go to improve their health in some way 74 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 5: because of the qualities of the water. And then in 75 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 5: the seventeen hundreds, a couple of enterprising doctors that ran 76 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 5: those kinds of resorts thought they'd get kind of competitive advantage, 77 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 5: or you get a leg up on the competition by 78 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 5: starting to introduce the supposed benefits of seawater. And so 79 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 5: then the first resorts emerged at the seaside that took 80 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 5: advantage of dipping into seawater, ingesting seawater, mixing seawater with 81 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 5: your wine for the health benefits there. And so that's 82 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 5: really where the first seaside resorts were born from. 83 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 4: You gotta start putting seawater in your wine, my friend, 84 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 4: the salty wine. 85 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 3: I don't think so. 86 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: Well. 87 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 4: No, Sarah said that starting in the late fifteen hundreds, 88 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 4: doctors began prescribing seawater, bathing in it, and drinking it 89 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 4: to treat all kinds of ailments like heat stroke, melancolia, 90 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 4: digest of issues, tuberculosis, even leprosy. 91 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 3: And like all good things. And this was eventually capitalized 92 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 3: on with the creation of the seaside resort. And to 93 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: be clear, these were not places to have fun and 94 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 3: relax at the time. All right, t t take us 95 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 3: back to the mid eighteenth century, roll that beautiful bean footage. 96 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 3: What was it like to be at a sea resort 97 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 3: at that time? 98 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 4: Okay, so there's this article from the Atlantic called the 99 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 4: Historic Healing Power of the Beach by eighty bron And 100 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 4: so just imagine yourself mid eighteenth century. 101 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 2: You are going to the spa. 102 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 4: Okay, You're going for treatment, and your treatment resembles something 103 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 4: similar to waterboarding. So you are going to be dunked 104 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 4: in freezing seawater repeatedly until you feel so cold that 105 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 4: it feels like you're suffocating, and you start to feel 106 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 4: terror and panic, and they thought that that was revitalizing. 107 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: Then while you're. 108 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 4: Standing there, dripping wet and scared for your life, you 109 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 4: would be pulled from the water and then giving a 110 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 4: vigorous back rub and feet warmers and then thrown onto 111 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 4: dry land for a cup of tea. And what was 112 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 4: supposed to happen was that the adrenaline from the shock 113 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 4: of the cold was supposed to have soothing effects on 114 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 4: the body to calm your anxiety and restore the body 115 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 4: soul balanced. This sounds very stressful to me. How you 116 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 4: gonna spawn to be more stressed. 117 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 3: If you dunk me in that water and dragged me out, 118 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 3: and all you have for me is a cup of tea. 119 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 3: You better hope I'm did okay kill me because it's 120 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 3: gonna be hail today. You better hope the treatment kills. 121 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: Oh. 122 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 3: So when did we change from this? When did we 123 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 3: go from what sounds like a horror to what I 124 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 3: know as a beach resort. 125 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 4: The idea of the beach as a place for fun 126 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 4: in the sun started to change in the nineteen hundreds 127 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 4: when Americans started going as a summer destination in Europe. 128 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 5: Even though beach tourism had become very popular, it was 129 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 5: still a winter time activity. You weren't going at the 130 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 5: hottest time of year, so the Americans in the early 131 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 5: nineteen hundreds. Well before even then, the Americans had started 132 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 5: using beaches as an escape from the sweltering cities in 133 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 5: the summer, and then they brought that back over to Europe, 134 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 5: and that's when the seaside beach tourism became this hot weather, 135 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 5: as little on as you can have fun in the 136 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 5: sand kind of thing. 137 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 4: Up until this point, seaside resorts were still catering to 138 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 4: the most elite and wealthiest people in society, but all 139 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 4: of that changed in the mid nineteenth century after World 140 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 4: War Two, with the growth of the middle class and 141 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 4: more economic travel options like trains, the seaside resort became 142 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 4: a destination for people seeking rest and rehabilitation. 143 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 5: All of a sudden, it wasn't just the upper classes 144 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 5: that could afford to go on a lengthy beach vacation. Now, 145 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 5: all of a sudden, there's a growing, exploding population that 146 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 5: can afford it also, and so that kind of resulted 147 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 5: in this explosion of tourism in general, but also beach 148 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 5: tourism specifically. 149 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 3: Sarah brought up one more inflection point that is crucial, 150 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 3: and that is the emergence of Hawaii as a vacation destination. 151 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 5: Hawaii was kind of this stepping stone also in the 152 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 5: early nineteen hundreds to more kind of far flung beach tourism. 153 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: Before Hawaii, all beach. 154 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 5: Tourism was either in Europe or America, and it was 155 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 5: the first time that travelers from those places were kind 156 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 5: of heading out of a culture that looked just like 157 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 5: their own. 158 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 3: So that's a lot to take in. 159 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 4: Yeah, So to sum it up, there's a lot of 160 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 4: inflection points that led us to where we are today, 161 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 4: one being the beach having medicinal properties. Then beach vacations 162 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 4: become more affordable to more people, and the emergence of 163 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 4: the beach this far away paradise, and all of these 164 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 4: things have led us to where we are today, the 165 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 4: current state of beach tourism. 166 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 5: One of the things I wanted to do with this 167 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 5: book was kind of make it clear, just like what 168 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 5: a major global industry tourism is. 169 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: It's a nine trillion dollar industry. 170 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 5: It's bigger than cars internationally, it's bigger than food internationally. 171 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 5: A lot of the time it doesn't get covered that 172 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 5: way because so much travel media tends to be inspirational 173 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 5: and service journalism, helping people decide where to go, and 174 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 5: so it hasn't really gotten covered as this serious, major 175 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 5: industry that it is. 176 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 3: Yes, bigger than food. Everybody got to. 177 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 2: Eat, I know. 178 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 4: Okay, we're traveling more than everybody has to travel, I know. 179 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 4: And when you think about it with that perspective, it's 180 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 4: really shocking. 181 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 3: Sarah raises a really good point. It feels like now 182 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 3: online people are treating travel like a personality. 183 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: They really think that it is. 184 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 3: I mean, everywhere in ig profiles, they'll say my passport 185 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 3: has this many stamps or I've been in this many countries, 186 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 3: and on the dating apps it's huge. People are like, 187 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 3: don't swipe on me unless you have a passport. I've 188 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 3: been to fifty six countries like home, and so I 189 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 3: get it travels big, but I think I want to understand, like, 190 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 3: even when we talk about the tourism industry, Okay, it 191 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 3: includes those people in the services they need, but what 192 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 3: are other things does it include? So I know we're 193 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 3: talking about resorts and you know, buses to shuttle you 194 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 3: different places, but what else is included in tourism that 195 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 3: I'm not thinking about. 196 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 5: Obviously, you have to include air travel, and it's a major, major, 197 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 5: major part of it. It's also the biggest contributor to 198 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 5: the carbon footprint of tourism. I think you have to include, 199 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 5: you know, food and drink production. A lot of resorts 200 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 5: are now grappling with like do you import French wines 201 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 5: to a place in feed that's so far away or 202 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 5: do you import closer by ones from Australia or something, 203 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 5: And so that kind of import export of especially. 204 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: Food and drink, I think is a huge, huge factor. 205 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 4: So it's not just the hospitality industry. We're also talking 206 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 4: about food and agriculture, transportation, travel agencies and tour companies, 207 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 4: tourism boards, attractions, entertainment. 208 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 2: All of these things contribute to the scope of the 209 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 2: tourism industry. 210 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 5: Tourism worldwide accounts for ten percent of all jobs worldwide, 211 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 5: so you have to look at the human factor of 212 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 5: their input into this economy and how important that part is. 213 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 4: Also, Sarah clarified that the statistic is from twenty nineteen, 214 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 4: but still ten percent, ten percent. 215 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 2: Of all jobs. That is wild to me. 216 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 3: And so now I think knowing that really puts the 217 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 3: pandemic in perspective, because I mean, I knew there were 218 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 3: a lot of people, but there were a lot a 219 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 3: lot of people who were so suddenly out of work 220 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 3: because no one was going anywhere. And obviously that was 221 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 3: devastating for a lot of economies, and you can imagine 222 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 3: even more so in countries where tourism is the major 223 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 3: part of the economy. So we ask Sarah if she 224 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 3: thinks tourism has changed, and if so, how now that 225 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 3: many travel restrictions are starting to lift. 226 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 5: I don't know that the pandemic has necessarily changed the 227 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 5: destinations that people are heading to in a long term way. 228 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 5: I think there is a kind of permanent change, or 229 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 5: it looks like it might be permanent change and the 230 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,559 Speaker 5: way a lot of people are traveling With this new 231 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 5: environment we have of remote work that seems like it's sticking. 232 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 5: People can travel to places for longer periods of time 233 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 5: work from those places, and we're seeing a lot of 234 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 5: resorts start to cater to that, and we're seeing governments 235 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 5: start to cater to it and offering what's known as 236 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 5: the digital nomad visa. A lot of Caribbean country are 237 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 5: offering them. Italy has recently announced that they're starting one, 238 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 5: Croatia has one. So there's a lot of that happening 239 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 5: and I think that will have a lasting effect. 240 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: On what resources look like and how people use them. 241 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 4: I'd love that she brought up digital nomads because it 242 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 4: feels like this is a trend that has been on 243 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 4: the rise and then accelerated by the pandemic. So a 244 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 4: digital nomad is someone who can do their work online 245 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 4: and remotely, so they can work from really any physical 246 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 4: location wherever they want, all over the world. And a 247 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 4: digital nomad visa allows you to stay in a foreign 248 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 4: country longer than a typical tourist visa, as long as 249 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 4: you aren't entering the local labor market. Yeah, as long 250 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 4: as you're not trying to work in that country, because 251 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 4: if you really a digital nomad, you should have a 252 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 4: job in your home country. Yes, And Sarah says that 253 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 4: there are good and bad sides to digital nomadism. 254 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 5: In terms of climate change, it's better to take one 255 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 5: flight to a place and stay there for a long 256 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 5: time than it is to take four flights throughout the year. 257 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: On shorter trips. So in that sense, I think it's 258 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 1: considered a good thing. 259 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 5: I also think that the localities that are trying to 260 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 5: attract digital nomads in this way see it as a 261 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 5: good thing, and that people will have more of an 262 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 5: actual experience with the community and the culture rather than 263 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 5: just dipping out staying in the. 264 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: Bubble of the resort. 265 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 5: They'll actually live in the place, They'll get to know 266 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 5: the place, and in that way it's a richer, better 267 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,239 Speaker 5: experience all around for the travelers coming there, for the locals, 268 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 5: for everybody. 269 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: One potential negative. 270 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 5: Of course, would be, you know, it's like the Airbnb 271 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 5: effect of driving up housing costs that you know, I 272 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 5: don't think we've seen evidence of that yet, but just 273 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 5: kind of logically that could be a challenge if digital 274 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 5: nomadism takes off in a huge way. 275 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 4: I saw an article recently on Travel Noir that said 276 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 4: that Mexico City has gotten a huge influx of digital nomads, 277 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 4: mainly from the United States and Canada, and the permanent 278 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 4: residency applications have double since the pandemic. Wow, Mexicans are 279 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 4: starting to protest this because they're seeing housing and cost 280 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 4: of living prices on the rise, as well as an 281 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 4: increase in gentrification. 282 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 3: And I've seen a lot of things about the residents 283 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 3: of Mexico City, at least complaining about the gentrification and 284 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 3: increasing costs and bad bunnies. Recent documentary talked about some 285 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 3: similar things happening in Puerto Rico, where the government was 286 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 3: making all these tax exemptions for companies, and you know, 287 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 3: companies go places where people are working and doing things 288 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 3: and where it's easier for them to build. We talked 289 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 3: about that in an earlier episode when we were talking 290 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 3: about building semiconductor chip plants, and so, you know, once 291 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 3: a place becomes popular with tourists, it's a chain reaction 292 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 3: with the local economy, and so some folks have been 293 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 3: complaining there's. 294 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 5: A tourism life cycle that kind of starts in this 295 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 5: exploration stage where just a few intrupid travelers come to 296 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 5: a place, and from there the locals will start offering 297 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 5: services just to those few people, and then a basic 298 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 5: infrastructure gets developed, and then from there outside companies tend 299 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 5: to start to come in and locals start to lose 300 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 5: control of the industry, and so that local economy is 301 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 5: very very important in terms of how it's structured. 302 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 3: This is really interesting because we recently did an episode 303 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 3: about the United States economy, so we know how quickly 304 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 3: a country's economy can change, and we also know what 305 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 3: some of the driving forces of that change might be 306 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 3: a lot of tourist destinations see that along with increased 307 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 3: popularity among tourists comes economic change that can be quite 308 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 3: a shock to the local economy, and for some locals 309 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 3: that adjustment is not easy, or sometimes it's not even possible. 310 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 5: Who ultimately controls and benefits from beach tourism is really 311 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 5: dependent on local governments. Like local governments have to be 312 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 5: involved in guaranteeing certain land rights, certain ownership rights. The 313 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 5: government's toc who gets the permit to run the resort, 314 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 5: or who is allowed to get the permit. 315 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,479 Speaker 4: Sarah cites two examples from her book on how local 316 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 4: governments might affect the ability for indigenous groups to adapt 317 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 4: to growing tourism. 318 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 5: In Fiji, land rights for the indigenous population are extremely strong. 319 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: They really can't be taken away. 320 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 5: And it's very strong landforced And because of that, this 321 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 5: village that collectively owned this land now rents it to 322 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 5: a resort and as a result, gets rental income from 323 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 5: this resort kind of guaranteed. And then you compare that 324 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 5: to some of the people that I met in Vietnam. 325 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 5: This man named Hoa in particular, who back in the 326 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 5: nineties opened this guesthouse on the beach and it was 327 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:45,719 Speaker 5: very very popular. 328 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: He was beloved by visitors. 329 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 5: But then when they started really developing the area for 330 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 5: beach tourism, Vietnam does not have strong land ownership rights. 331 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 5: They have clauses in their law that land can be 332 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 5: taken away for the quote unquote public good, but it's 333 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 5: very vaguely defined what the public good is, and so 334 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 5: he ultimately had his land taken away. Even though he 335 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 5: was a pioneer of making this industry happen there, and 336 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 5: on his land where he ran his little resort is 337 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 5: now a four star resort run by a Spanish company. 338 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 4: A lot of people don't realize the impacts tourism can 339 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 4: have if the government hasn't set things up correctly for 340 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 4: the indigenous people of that country. And even in the 341 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 4: places where the tourism industry has been alive and well 342 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 4: for decades, we're seeing pushback from indigenous communities who are 343 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 4: fighting against over tourism. 344 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 2: The most recent example is Hawaii. 345 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 5: The indigenous Hawaiians themselves who have very much been crowded 346 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 5: out of their own beachfronts and I think are very 347 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 5: frustrated that tourism in Hawaii seems to have been prioritized 348 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 5: by the government over them. Hawaii is suffering a lot 349 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 5: of ecological challenges from tourism now. I cover Waikiki pretty 350 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 5: extensively in the book, and Waikiki is having all kinds 351 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 5: of trouble even keeping a beach in place there now 352 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 5: because of you know, it's been overbuilt so much. And 353 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 5: then there's also no way to have a trip to 354 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 5: Hawaii that is not a long haul flight, right. It's 355 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 5: a long haul flight from everywhere. And so in this 356 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 5: kind of emerging understanding we're having of just how damaging 357 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 5: the air travel part of travel is, a place like 358 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 5: Hawaii really starts to suffer from that challenge. 359 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 3: Yo, Hawaii is way further west than I thought. I'd 360 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 3: really like to open up maps and look at that 361 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,959 Speaker 3: whole thing. The distance from Now. I don't know if 362 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 3: this is true, but my eyeball distance from the west 363 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 3: coast of California to Hawaii is further than the eastern 364 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 3: coast of South America to the continent of Africa. Yes, 365 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 3: give Hawaii back breath. 366 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 4: And another important thing to think about is carbon footprint. 367 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 4: And so what a carbon footprint is is the total 368 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 4: amount of greenhouse gases that you generate by your action. 369 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 4: So that can be driving a car, taking a bus, 370 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 4: going on a plane. All of these things have a 371 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 4: carbon footprint. Even ordering online because you know, like we 372 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 4: talked about in our episode about shipping and all the delays, 373 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,360 Speaker 4: all of that has a carbon footprint too, because those 374 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 4: items are being put on a truck and each of 375 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 4: those trucks are emitting greenhouse gases. And so when we 376 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 4: think about the context of carbon footprint, when it comes 377 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 4: to air travel. That flight from wherever you are all 378 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 4: the way to Hawaii, that. 379 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 2: Is a significant amount of air pollution. 380 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 3: We're seeing the same thing happening in Puerto Rico, where 381 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 3: Puerto Rican climate activists are fighting against coastal development and 382 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 3: the privatization of public beaches. And the problem isn't just gentrification, 383 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 3: it's also the coastal erosion that's happening because of climate 384 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 3: change and the dangers that new infrastry ructure along the 385 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 3: coast can bring in the wake of storms like Hurricane 386 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 3: Maria and just recently Hurricane Fiona. 387 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 4: This is such a great point, and coastal erosion is 388 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 4: the wearing away of the shoreline due to various factors 389 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 4: that interrupt the natural balance between the waves, the currents, 390 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 4: and the wind. So imagine you put a resort right 391 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,719 Speaker 4: on that ocean line. That ocean line is going to 392 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 4: feel the weight of that building. Baby Tourism in coastal 393 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 4: communities has huge repercussions for the local ecology as well 394 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 4: as the local economy. 395 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 5: I think one of the biggest waves that resorts tend 396 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 5: to impact the shorelines is by causing, ironically the beaches 397 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 5: to a road. And when that happens, it has an 398 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,479 Speaker 5: impact on the ecosystem the animals that rely on that sand. 399 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 5: Then all of a sudden it might not be there. 400 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 5: The animals that rely on those animals that rely on 401 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 5: the sand might not be there. So it has this 402 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 5: cascading effect. When sand gets kind of circulating in the water, 403 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 5: it blocks sunlight from coral reefs that need sunlight. The 404 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,719 Speaker 5: content of the water is not agreeable to some animals anymore. 405 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 4: At that point, we talked about this delicate balance of 406 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 4: oceanic life with doctor Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, and. 407 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 3: I think it's important to also highlight that, yes, in 408 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 3: some cases it's sand in the ocean and that's blocking 409 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 3: the beach, and that's just downstream effects from more people 410 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 3: being in the kind of shallow waters, right, or more 411 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 3: people in activity. Now that's just like an unintended side effect. 412 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 3: But some beach resorts are actually intentionally disrupting the natural 413 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 3: ecology of a place by important invasive species, which we 414 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 3: talked about with doctor Nicholas Rayo. And one example of 415 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 3: this is the palm tree. 416 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 5: Palm trees are actually not indigenous to most shorelines in 417 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 5: the world, but they get imported to every single resort 418 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 5: that ever opens, and that comes at the expense of 419 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 5: the natural trees that were there and part of the ecosystem. 420 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 5: They require tons of water, They hardly provide any shade, 421 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 5: which we need more and more as temperatures are rising. 422 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 5: I do think that that is something that is now 423 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 5: seeping into our consciousness and probably, you know, fifty years 424 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 5: from now, the palm tree is not going to be 425 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 5: the symbol of tourism, beach tourism that it is now. 426 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 3: And like who decided, I don't even like palm trees. 427 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 3: Who decided that the palm tree was the symbol of 428 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 3: a relaxing vacation. Same with golf courses put put not fun. 429 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 5: Golf courses, which very very often accompany beach resorts, are 430 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 5: just a terrible, terrible ecological presence. The fertilizers and stuff 431 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,479 Speaker 5: that are required to keep these large swaths of land 432 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 5: green in places that are not supposed to be that 433 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 5: green inevitably runs off into the ocean and rereaks all 434 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 5: kinds of havoc on the ocean life the ecosystem there, 435 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,719 Speaker 5: and they clear out all the natural vegetation that exists 436 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 5: in a place and kind of create this monoculture that 437 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 5: is not helpful at all to the local ecosystem. 438 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 4: Let's take a break and when we get back, we're 439 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 4: talking more with Sarah Sidola about how to take all 440 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 4: of this into consideration when planning future travel. 441 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 3: We're back, but before we get to the lab, two 442 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 3: quick notes. The first note is that our final lab 443 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 3: is on October twenty seventh, and we want to hear 444 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 3: from you. What's been your favorite lab this semester? What 445 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 3: else do you want us to talk about? Call us 446 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 3: and tell us at two zero two five six seven 447 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 3: seven zero two eight. You can also email us at 448 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 3: contact at Dope labspodcast dot com if you're feeling a 449 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 3: little shy. Also, next week, we're going to be covering 450 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 3: how social media has been changing so fast and what 451 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 3: that might mean for future generations. So we'll be talking 452 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 3: with Professor Jeff Hancock, who is the founder of the 453 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 3: Stanford Social Media Lab. You don't want to miss it. 454 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 2: All right, let's get back to the lab. 455 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 4: We've been talking to Sarah Stidola about the tourism industry 456 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 4: and specifically its effects on local economies. So in learning this, 457 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 4: how do you reconcile the desire to travel and take vacations. 458 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 4: How do we take these things into consideration when we 459 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 4: plan future travel? We act Sarah if she had a 460 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 4: framework for making these decisions. 461 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 5: I don't think the answer is to ask people or 462 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,959 Speaker 5: expect people to stop traveling trying to take trips that 463 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 5: don't involve so many long flights. 464 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: Especially long flights I think is good. 465 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 5: That's not saying don't ever take them, but just be 466 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 5: very cognizant of you know, is this particular trip worth 467 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,959 Speaker 5: this long haul flight. I think it's something really important 468 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 5: to start thinking about. 469 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 3: And Sarah says, if you hang around long enough, the 470 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 3: government might start making those decisions for you. So in 471 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 3: France and the UK, for example, governments are starting to 472 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 3: create policies that incentivize forms of travel other than flying, 473 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 3: and at the same time they're also discouraging frequent flyer programs. 474 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 4: We need something like that in the United States so 475 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 4: that Kylie Jenner and Taylor Swift can't take any more 476 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 4: ten minute flights. 477 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 2: Did you see that? 478 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 3: No, they are ten minute flights. 479 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 2: Ten minute flights. Now. 480 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 4: I know the traffic in la is bad, but your 481 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 4: carbon footprint is the size of a t Rent. 482 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 483 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 4: Sarah also stressed the importance of trying to support local 484 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 4: businesses as much as possible. 485 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 5: I think one really important thing is to try to 486 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 5: stay in places that are locally owned or locally managed 487 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 5: or both. You know, the direct benefit to local communities 488 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 5: that way is much greater, and I think doing that 489 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,919 Speaker 5: also results in a better trip for you or for 490 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 5: whoever is traveling. I think you get a lot more 491 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 5: out of that direct contact with the local culture and community. 492 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 5: Same goes for restaurants. Instead of eating at like a 493 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 5: major resorts restaurant, try to eat a locally owned place. 494 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 5: If you're at the beach, use reef safe sunscreen. Those 495 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 5: are all things you can do to at least not 496 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,439 Speaker 5: be making the situation worse. 497 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 3: If you're taking a flight somewhere, Sarah recommends doing your 498 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 3: research and looking into buying carbon offsets. 499 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 5: So carbon offsets are something that you can buy and 500 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 5: just like the name implies, it's meant to offset the 501 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 5: carbon imprint from a flight. So the most kind of 502 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,120 Speaker 5: straightforward one is, you know, you can buy offsets from 503 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 5: companies that will plant a certain number of trees or 504 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 5: plant a certain amount of vegetation in order to offset 505 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 5: the carbon output from your flight. 506 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 3: Well, who's gonna offset it from the palm trees? And 507 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 3: you know, the major caveat here is that these programs 508 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 3: are not perfect. So I don't want to say at best, 509 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 3: but at medium, you're gonna feel less guilty about your trip. 510 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 3: You know, that could be its own show about how 511 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 3: the carbon offset programs work. 512 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and we talked about this in other episodes, 513 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 4: where you know, you should stop drinking oat milk, you 514 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 4: should drink soy milk because of this, that and the 515 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 4: other thing. All of these things are little steps in 516 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 4: the right direction, and we're all trying to have a 517 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 4: positive impact in every space that we're in when it 518 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 4: comes to being more eco friendly. 519 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 520 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 4: So this whole episode has really made me think a 521 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 4: lot about traveling, of course, but it also made me 522 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 4: think about some of my favorite travel bloggers. And one 523 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 4: of my favorites is Nia Chauvin, also known as Born 524 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 4: a Backpacker, and she has a blog that I really love. 525 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 4: I follow her on Instagram and her blog website, and 526 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 4: she gives you tips and tricks about how to save 527 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 4: money while you're traveling, how to be eco friendly while 528 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 4: you're traveling, And so we asked her to talk to 529 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 4: us about the travel that she does with her family 530 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 4: and give us some tips and tricks about how to 531 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 4: have a positive impact on the communities that we're visiting 532 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 4: while we're traveling. 533 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 2: Hi. 534 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 6: I'm Nia Chauvin and I travel half the year with 535 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 6: my husband and our three children, who are currently six, three, 536 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 6: and one, and I document our travels through a blog. 537 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 2: Born a backpacker. 538 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 6: Traveling together as a family is important for me because one, 539 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 6: it's core to who I was and what I love 540 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 6: to do before becoming a mother, so I didn't want 541 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 6: to lose that part of me. And second, and even 542 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 6: more important, showing my children other cultures, traditions, foods, languages, fosters. 543 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 6: I believe understanding, acceptance and respect for people with all 544 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 6: different backgrounds. Our typical length of stay in a country 545 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,479 Speaker 6: is about two months, and when we travel, we really 546 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 6: try to do it as eco friendly as possible. The 547 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 6: most deliberate we are about traveling in an eco friendly 548 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 6: way is deciding where we put our dollars and ensuring 549 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 6: it goes directly to locals, specifically with accommodation and food, 550 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 6: because that's where we spend the most money. It sometimes 551 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 6: takes some digging, but we always try to stay at 552 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 6: places that are locally owned, whether it be a hotel, Airbnb, 553 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 6: or a home stay with a family. And the same 554 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 6: goes for restaurants we eat at. We always search for 555 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 6: the local spots that make food from the region, with 556 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 6: food from the region grown in the region. Not only 557 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 6: is that considered ecotourism, but it's also better food for me. 558 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 6: Putting money directly in locals pockets is the best way 559 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 6: we can leave a positive impact. And with a long 560 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 6: list of things, I would encourage people to try and 561 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 6: adopt as many as possible, but know that no one 562 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 6: is perfect. We just have to make an effort and 563 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 6: make some sacrifices to do what we can to be 564 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,959 Speaker 6: responsible in ethical travelers. 565 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 4: I'm actually in Peru right now and I am definitely 566 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 4: taking these recommendations to heart. 567 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 2: We're eating local, we are. 568 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 4: Making sure that we're spending our money in local environments, 569 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 4: not going to any big chains, and it feels really 570 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 4: good to support the local Peruvian people. 571 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 3: And so I think that's a great start. TT and 572 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 3: you did it on a dime, right, And so when 573 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 3: we look to the future of tourism, what might vacations 574 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 3: look like in a future where we're all kind of 575 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 3: modeling after you and trying to thrive as a global community. 576 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: I think beach resorts will survive. 577 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 5: I don't think that fifty years from now we're not 578 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 5: going to have beach resorts anymore, but I do think 579 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 5: that they are going to have to look very different 580 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 5: than they do today. I think that resorts are no 581 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 5: longer going to be built right up at the sand anymore. 582 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: We're already seeing a lot of countries implement. 583 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 5: Laws called step back laws, and it means that no 584 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 5: new construction can happen within it's usually something like fifty 585 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 5: meters of the high tideline. We're going to be seeing 586 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 5: kind of embracing the natural environment along with the beach 587 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 5: a little more. We'll see what happens with air travel. 588 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 2: You know. 589 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 5: The interesting thing about air travel is that it is 590 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 5: getting more efficient all the time. So on a per 591 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 5: flight basis, it's much more efficient, has much less of 592 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 5: a carbon imprint than it did twenty years ago. But 593 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 5: overall air travel has grown so much that the overall 594 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 5: carbon footprint of air travel is just still kind of 595 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 5: growing exponentially. So hopefully, in this optimistic scenario, we get 596 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 5: to a point where air travel is no longer the 597 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 5: super problematic element that it is today and are we 598 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 5: going to be there? 599 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 2: Is? 600 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: Probably not, but maybe in twenty or thirty years will 601 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: be there. 602 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 3: Okay, it's time for the one thing tt I think 603 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 3: our collective one thing is Sarah Stodola's book. 604 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 4: Yes, you should definitely pick up Sarah Stodola's book, The 605 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 4: Last Resort, A chronicle of paradise, profit and Peril. 606 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 2: At the Beach. 607 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 4: I really enjoyed reading this book. I learned so much 608 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 4: about the tourism industry, how it started, how we got 609 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 4: to where we are today. I mean, if you really 610 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 4: liked this episode, you will really enjoy Sarah's book, So 611 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 4: make sure you pick that up. Also, follow our friend 612 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 4: Nia Chauvin at Born and Backpacker on Instagram and subscribe 613 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 4: to her blog. 614 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 2: It's so fun. 615 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 4: Her kids are so cute and she has really amazing 616 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,719 Speaker 4: content on Instagram, TikTok and her blog. 617 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 2: So check it all out. 618 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 3: And if you want to know more about your carbon footprint, 619 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 3: if you want to calculate it, figure it out, how 620 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 3: you can adjust it with travel and how that changes, 621 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 3: go to the show notes and we're gonna have a 622 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 3: link to a carbon footprint calculator from the Nature Conservancy 623 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 3: so you can look at that. 624 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 2: That's very cool. 625 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 4: I want to know mine. I saw the averages sixteen tons. 626 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 4: I don't think I put out sixteen tons. 627 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 3: That's for an American because Americans are the worst. That's 628 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 3: one of the highest rates in the world. Globally, the 629 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 3: average carbon footprint is four tons. 630 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,720 Speaker 4: Okay, we've got a problem, America. Yes, we've got a problem, Beyonce. Already, 631 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 4: America has got a Problemonzade. 632 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 3: Will also have a link to that song for you. 633 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 2: Go tt we Love you, Beyonce. 634 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,839 Speaker 4: That's it for Lab eighty one. Are you taking any 635 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 4: trip soon? Where are you going? 636 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 3: Call us at two zero two five six seven seven 637 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 3: zero two eight and tell us what you thought, Or 638 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 3: call us and tell us about your favorite lab from 639 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 3: this semester. Remember, our finale is coming up and we 640 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,439 Speaker 3: want to hear from you. That's two zero two five 641 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 3: six seven seven zero two eight. 642 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 4: And don't forget there's so much more for you to 643 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,879 Speaker 4: dig into on our website. There'll be a cheat sheet 644 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 4: for today's lab and additional links and resources in the 645 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,800 Speaker 4: show notes. Plus you can sign up for our newsletter. 646 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 4: Check it out at Dope labspodcast dot com. Special thanks 647 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,240 Speaker 4: to today's guest expert, Sarah Stadola. 648 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 3: You can find her on Twitter at s Stadola S 649 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 3: S t O d O l A, and you can 650 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 3: find us on Twitter and Instagram at Dope Labs Podcast. 651 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 3: Tt is on Twitter and Instagram at dr Underscore T 652 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 3: s h O, and you can find Zakia at z 653 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 3: said So. Dope Labs is a Spotify original production from 654 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 3: Mega Ohm Media Group. Our producers are Jenny Radlett Mast 655 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 3: and Lydia Smith of WaveRunner Studios. Our associate producer is 656 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 3: Caro Rolando. Editing and sound design by Rob's Smrzek with 657 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,800 Speaker 3: additional mixing and sound design by Hannis Brown. Original music 658 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 3: composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Zugia from 659 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 3: Spotify Creative producer Miguel Contreras. Special thanks to Shirley Ramos 660 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 3: Jess Forreson, Till krat Key and Brian Marquis executive producers 661 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,919 Speaker 3: from Mega Own Media Group rs T T Show, Dia 662 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,320 Speaker 3: and Zakiyah Wattley.