Speaker 1: Hey everybody, it's say I'm here with a quick little announcement,
Speaker 1: and that is that we are doing Stridia Lab live
Speaker 1: back in New York City on Wednesday, April sixteenth at
Speaker 1: the Bellhouse. Couldn't be more excited. It's a special editions
Speaker 1: we're calling it Lesbio Lab, and we're discussing lesbian topics
Speaker 1: with some of our incredible guests, including Sydney Washington, Andrew Longshu,
Speaker 1: and Natalie Rodter Lateman. So the lineups to die for.
Speaker 1: I haven't been back in New York in a few months,
Speaker 1: and I cannot wait. So please get tickets. They're in
Speaker 1: our bios and we would love to see you there. Bye.
Speaker 1: Podcast starts now.
Speaker 2: Wow, you're up here and you say those words.
Speaker 1: I mean, can you believe it live from New York City?
Speaker 2: Even for anyone who doesn't know. I mean, people don't
Speaker 2: realize because it comes out once a week. People don't
Speaker 2: know that we haven't been together in studio in like
Speaker 2: four months at this point. Well, when were you in La?
Speaker 2: Don't fact check me. It's been a while. I'm sorry
Speaker 2: to debunk you. Okay, we were in La together in February.
Speaker 2: It's now April that's what five months? Close, close, that's
Speaker 2: almost five months. If you're round up, that's five months.
Speaker 2: Think about how long that is multiple of five. No,
Speaker 2: but it does feel.
Speaker 1: Different because when we were there, we're still like, we're
Speaker 1: not like home.
Speaker 2: I'll be the first to say it. These days, one
Speaker 2: month feels like a year. Oh my gosh, whatever. They care,
Speaker 2: But to me there, that's true. No, it actually is true.
Speaker 1: I literally like, what is going on at all times?
Speaker 2: I know? Can we we have to debut your big
Speaker 2: theory about turning thirty versus twenty sixteen on main on
Speaker 2: the main feed? Okay, is this the time for this
Speaker 2: is the time? Okay, go okay.
Speaker 1: Ever since literally the day I turned thirty, I have
Speaker 1: had seemingly one health issue after the next. And that
Speaker 1: has been five years of consistently like being like, Okay,
Speaker 1: well this is gonna be my year. Something horrible happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then that's like.
Speaker 1: How in twenty sixteen when Trump was elected, You're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is the worst thing that's ever going to happen,
Speaker 1: and then horrible things kept happening after that in a
Speaker 1: way that you're like, oh, I'm actually just at the
Speaker 1: beginning of a free fall, and I don't know where
Speaker 1: I'm going to land.
Speaker 2: This is one of your most genius theories that twenty
Speaker 2: sixteen is when America turned thirty.
Speaker 1: And it was also one of those things where I
Speaker 1: didn't want to believe it because I don't want to
Speaker 1: know most people that's like, oh, blurg, I'm thirty and
Speaker 1: my back hurts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the American populist during the Pussy March or
Speaker 2: Women's March. Sorry, sorry about it. I just thought pussy, Yeah,
Speaker 2: don't you think that. Sorry not to be anti woman. No, No,
Speaker 2: the Women's March was America collectively being like blurg. It
Speaker 2: was a.
Speaker 1: Blurg, and it was like I was thirty now and now,
Speaker 1: and then it just kept and now they're like fuck,
Speaker 1: I'm thirty now.
Speaker 2: Like it's like yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: They just keep the suffering keeps happening, and I don't
Speaker 1: know where we're going to land forty. But did you
Speaker 1: come out like I do have a fantasy that thirty
Speaker 1: is like a transitional I completely agree where you're losing
Speaker 1: your youth slowly, but then you do settle.
Speaker 2: I think forties, as I've always said. One time, I
Speaker 2: read an Amy Polar quote that I think was fake
Speaker 2: and AI generated, but it really stuck with me.
Speaker 1: You have to you have to take away the authenticity
Speaker 1: from the meaning that gave you.
Speaker 2: I can. It's sort of like it's spiritually true to me.
Speaker 2: And I've brought it up many times on this podcast.
Speaker 2: If you felt it, it's true. So she said, you know,
Speaker 2: your twenties are for figuring out what you're not, your
Speaker 2: thirties are for figuring out what you are, and then
Speaker 2: in your forties you say this is who I am. Well,
Speaker 2: and so I think that America will hit forty soon. Hopefully,
Speaker 2: you have to hope it'll be a kind of jut appatoel.
Speaker 2: This is forty moment for the United States of A.
Speaker 2: And then afterwards, well, we'll hit a level of maturity.
Speaker 1: Based on the time that it's taken for us to
Speaker 1: turn thirty. I don't know we'll be alive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it definitely will be hundreds of years. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: we won't be alive anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's too okay.
Speaker 2: Our children will be alive. We're probably not gonna have
Speaker 2: kids that come on, you know, it's funny, nephew, Oh
Speaker 2: my god, that's true. O. Niece and nephews will be
Speaker 2: absolutely eighty yeah, they'll be eighty yeah. Do you think
Speaker 2: our nieces and nephews will like make a difference.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about this recently. I was like, actually
Speaker 2: with my niece yesterday, and I was like, what are
Speaker 2: your politics going to be when you grow up? There's
Speaker 2: no way to know, There's.
Speaker 1: No way to know, you have you can guess a
Speaker 1: little bit based on you know, socioeconomic backg Right, she is.
Speaker 2: A white girl growing up in Brooklyn. That could go
Speaker 2: either way. What if she's part of the downtown scene.
Speaker 1: You mean she's the news, the new Ault, right, Well,
Speaker 1: you have to almost respect.
Speaker 2: That then totally. No, I would definitely be supportive if
Speaker 2: she was the new Dasha.
Speaker 1: I'd be like, damn, she's kind of yeah cool.
Speaker 2: Because I also at that point I would be so
Speaker 2: old that I wouldn't really know the ins and outs
Speaker 2: of the debates. I would just be like, she has
Speaker 2: a podcast, that's fun.
Speaker 1: It's easier for me to think to fantasize about what
Speaker 1: their politics will be than it is for me to
Speaker 1: fantasize about what their view of our politics will be.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's what really scares me is them being like, oh,
Speaker 1: you actually believe in this?
Speaker 2: You know what they're gonna think about us. It's like
Speaker 2: when we watch a documentary about gay New York in
Speaker 2: like the eighties, and then there's like some old guy
Speaker 2: that's still wearing a leather choker. That's gonna be us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna hurt. Yeah, but that's okay. This is okay.
Speaker 1: I have two things I want to talk about.
Speaker 2: Okay, but we have to bring in our guest. Yes,
Speaker 2: please do the honor. You know what. Actually, I'm about
Speaker 2: to get rid for this. I'm about to do something
Speaker 2: so humiliating, which is that I forgot to ask before
Speaker 2: the pod if it's Saint Felix or Salt Felik's because
Speaker 2: I've heard both.
Speaker 4: Or two.
Speaker 2: It's the second.
Speaker 3: And I knew you were going to bring that up.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I because I have said for years, I've said,
Speaker 2: say Felix and then sorry, but your boss David Remnick
Speaker 2: on air said Felix, and I said this man, say
Speaker 2: please welcome Duren San Felip's Hello, Hi, what's up?
Speaker 4: Wait?
Speaker 2: So you knew I was going to bring it up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, Because here's the thing. You have a French
Speaker 3: last name. I have it through slavery of course, and colonization,
Speaker 3: and it's like you're in America, so you anglicize it
Speaker 3: all the time to make it easier for people. And
Speaker 3: then you go to college and you learn you're supposed
Speaker 3: to reclaim your ancestry, but it's like too late to
Speaker 3: get people to start pronouncing your name the right way.
Speaker 3: So for me, it's like some days I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you could say the English way, I don't care, and
Speaker 3: then other days I'm like, I majored in African American studies.
Speaker 2: Oh, interesting, that's interesting. You never know which to get.
Speaker 2: How militants she's bringing a center left energy. This is happening.
Speaker 1: I have noticed with Rihanna where people are like, well,
Speaker 1: actually it's Rihanna, but then it has but actually everyone's
Speaker 1: called her Rihanna forever. But now there's like this back
Speaker 1: and forth where now there's no way to say it
Speaker 1: right because everyone's like mad at the other half.
Speaker 3: Because Rihanna sounds like the woke way to pronounce. You're
Speaker 3: like soft a yes, sounds midwestern exactly Rihanna.
Speaker 2: Rihanna sounds and then.
Speaker 3: You do Rhianna in your head, and then you're mad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't go down that road.
Speaker 1: I find that interesting. I was going to say, okay, now.
Speaker 2: You have two things, say well, and now during is
Speaker 2: part of.
Speaker 1: This and you're part of this, and that adds more
Speaker 1: pressure to it because they were sort of intro bits
Speaker 1: in my mind where they're not very good.
Speaker 2: Let's start there one.
Speaker 1: I guess I just want to come up and say
Speaker 1: I'm being targeted and my phone is dying so fast.
Speaker 1: As of yesterday, I have left the hotel room and
Speaker 1: I'm at fifty percent. What they do, that's what they do.
Speaker 2: And now with the tariffs, your next phone's going to
Speaker 2: cause approximately five thousand dollars. So get ready, bitch, I'm scared. Okay.
Speaker 1: The next topic is the I think I thought the
Speaker 1: Midwest trending thing was going to be over.
Speaker 2: I thought that was sort of the Midwest was trending,
Speaker 2: the Midwest trending traveling.
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know if they wereright about that, New Yorker,
Speaker 1: but the Midwest, the Midwest is trending, and and before.
Speaker 2: That, Ireland was trending. Yeah, which I can I can.
Speaker 3: Really speak on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but now I feel like with Bonnie Bear having
Speaker 1: a new album, I actually think the West is continuing
Speaker 1: to trend. Yeah, and in a way where I'm like, wait,
Speaker 1: is this ever gonna Like I'm like confused by the
Speaker 1: Midwest trending and I don't know how to interact with it.
Speaker 2: Duran, what do you think?
Speaker 3: What do I think about the Midwest trending? What's fascinating
Speaker 3: because there's still so much I think debate about where
Speaker 3: the Midwest begins and where men's right. And then there's
Speaker 3: certain people like Chapel or Bony Bear who are like
Speaker 3: the saints of that idea. But it's like the Chicago question.
Speaker 2: Yes, the Chicago question.
Speaker 3: Is Chicago Midwest or not? I think? But I would
Speaker 3: so much rather debate this than like the Coastal Wars.
Speaker 3: You know, that was very like Obama era.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, you're absolutely right. Obama era was New York
Speaker 2: versus LA, and Trump era is the Midwest Chicago like
Speaker 2: the extent.
Speaker 1: Well, that's a really good point because the Midwest trending
Speaker 1: is like a town in Minnesota, like the idea of
Speaker 1: like riding a four wheeler on a farm, like exactly
Speaker 1: in a thermal whatever Rosen Island.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for me growing up, that's what I thought the
Speaker 3: Midwest was you grew up in New York, right, I did.
Speaker 3: I grew up in Brooklyn and South.
Speaker 2: Are you starstruck?
Speaker 1: So so what are your politics now?
Speaker 3: Study black flash?
Speaker 1: Wow, I don't know why that hit me.
Speaker 2: Okay, you know what's happening? Yeah, go okay.
Speaker 1: So I remember I moved around a lot as a kid,
Speaker 1: and I remember like when I moved to Virginia, so
Speaker 1: my dad had gone to Duke and so he had
Speaker 1: like Duke gear, and so when we moved to Virginia,
Speaker 1: that's like much closer to North Carolina.
Speaker 2: Obviously, don't bring up white lotus challenge.
Speaker 1: But I saw like people in Duke merch and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, like you know what Duke is.
Speaker 1: Like no one in Michigan or Indiana knew what they
Speaker 1: knew what it was, but they didn't like talk about
Speaker 1: it ever. Yeah, And so then like there's something happening
Speaker 1: here where I'm like, wait, you're from.
Speaker 2: Brooklyn, And I'm like, right, I'm back. I mean.
Speaker 3: I know that place for like a long time, like
Speaker 3: there's a.
Speaker 2: Big part of my gosh. So I'm sort of realizing that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know, I don't identify with the native
Speaker 3: New Yorker mythology.
Speaker 2: Really talk about that.
Speaker 3: Well, because I grew up past the last stop on
Speaker 3: the L train, so I went to Manhattan maybe like
Speaker 3: every eight months. It was just not a part of
Speaker 3: my world at all. I feel like I grew up
Speaker 3: like in a strip mall suburb. That's what that part
Speaker 3: of Brooklyn is like. Sure, yeah, it's like weird Long Island,
Speaker 3: Like there was this really big park where the Mafia
Speaker 3: was like just sort of like ending its rain when
Speaker 3: I was a kid, and it's.
Speaker 5: Like because you were born, they were like, we can't
Speaker 5: kill anymore.
Speaker 2: I want to be good.
Speaker 3: But it was this interesting time where like white flight
Speaker 3: was causing like a huge part of the population to leave,
Speaker 3: and then all these like black and also South Asian
Speaker 3: families were moving into Brooklyn and kind of like reshaping
Speaker 3: the space, like the literal space in their identity, and
Speaker 3: so there.
Speaker 2: Was more local culture like New York New York Saturday
Speaker 2: Night exactly.
Speaker 3: It's like New York, Like New York City felt as
Speaker 3: far to me as it might have felt to you.
Speaker 2: Sure interesting, Yeah, I mean that is true. There was
Speaker 2: a very brief period in my life, as everyone knows
Speaker 2: where I live in New Jersey suburbs, of course, and
Speaker 2: I was technically speaking like forty five minutes from the city,
Speaker 2: but it was not something I considered home by any means.
Speaker 2: It's probably my cosmopolitan vie.
Speaker 3: Do you think New Jersey will be trending.
Speaker 2: Next this isn't it? I actually don't because I think
Speaker 2: New Jersey I think.
Speaker 1: It trended in like two thousand eight. I think there
Speaker 1: was there was the indie rock.
Speaker 2: It's also before that Bruce Springston. I think Bruce Springsteen
Speaker 2: trended too hard at his peak. And I think, like
Speaker 2: I also think there was something around Jersey Shore, Teresa Judais,
Speaker 2: like all these sort of like trashy New Jersey legends
Speaker 2: that actually became so big that it made people uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: Like I don't think people like thinking about Snookie right now,
Speaker 2: whereas they do like like people do like thinking about
Speaker 2: like Tiffany Pollard or like what are other sort of
Speaker 2: like reality icons of that era, like people like think
Speaker 2: about America's next not model, think the real world, like whatever.
Speaker 2: But I don't think I think the Jersey Shore era
Speaker 2: is people think of it as a dark era for America.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that changes so quickly. The fact that it
Speaker 1: is loaded, means it's coming back soon.
Speaker 2: So maybe it'll come back in like the twenty thirties.
Speaker 1: Well, it is like if we're doing Y two K,
Speaker 1: it's like just around the corner.
Speaker 3: And also a lot of these figures are you know,
Speaker 3: like the situation for example, Yeah, who I tend to
Speaker 3: keep up with? Oh okay, he's sober now, And I
Speaker 3: feel like that fits into the whole like sober fascism
Speaker 3: thing that's happening with people.
Speaker 2: What's that?
Speaker 3: Well, people are just so intense and it's a morality thing.
Speaker 1: Now I've I haven't heard it like quit so plainly, like.
Speaker 3: You're not put it pretty offensively, I.
Speaker 2: Guess, I mean because I know, yeah I have. I've
Speaker 2: like picked up on this on.
Speaker 1: The internet where it's like a sober culture is like
Speaker 1: hard right now, Well.
Speaker 3: There were steps. First was Cali sober, which was that
Speaker 3: you didn't drink alcohol, but you did every other drug
Speaker 3: known to man. Yeah, and now people are becoming addicted
Speaker 3: to sobriety, I think, And it's like becoming the entirety
Speaker 3: of their identity, don't.
Speaker 2: You think there's also like a to bring it to
Speaker 2: a straight lab space gendered dynamic of like the feminine
Speaker 2: to be very essentialist. The feminine part of that is
Speaker 2: like mocktail culture, yes, and like mocktails being seventeen dollars
Speaker 2: and it's like Celery shrub and celt or whatever. And
Speaker 2: then the masculine side is like Huberman was that his name?
Speaker 2: The podcast the like Stanford podcast health Guy. Oh god,
Speaker 2: you guys.
Speaker 3: Are my only podcast.
Speaker 2: I don't know any but like it, like basically like
Speaker 2: people that are like almost like manisphere level like work out,
Speaker 2: take care of your body, raw meats, solar anus. Yes,
Speaker 2: so those are the two and which and I guess
Speaker 2: both of those are eclipsing the previous notion of sobriety,
Speaker 2: which was like aa sobriety right, Yeah, it's almost like
Speaker 2: being an alcoholic is beside the point when sobriety is
Speaker 2: a is a fascist lifestyle. That's such.
Speaker 3: That's exactly what the pivot is because.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's no longer part of an addiction narrative, right WHOA.
Speaker 3: Like for so many people, it's not necessarily that they
Speaker 3: had to overcome a dependency on alcoholics probably are not alcoholics.
Speaker 3: You do have to reach the calm out standard alcohol. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you got to earn it you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: and you know what the difference.
Speaker 2: Okay, So first of all, it's good that people are sober,
Speaker 2: good for them. But there's also another dark element to
Speaker 2: all this, which is like, sobriety became commodified that so
Speaker 2: when something becomes commodified, you need more and more people
Speaker 2: to engage in it. The first round of people are
Speaker 2: actual recovering alcoholics who are the let's say target market.
Speaker 2: There's only a limited amount of those, so then you're
Speaker 2: going to other people, and now you have to find
Speaker 2: as many people as possible. It's like how Facebook started
Speaker 2: targeting children and teens after they got all and people
Speaker 2: in countries, in countries outside America when they got America
Speaker 2: all hooked, right, you have to keep expanding the market.
Speaker 1: I was listening to this podcast with a fitness guy
Speaker 1: on it, uh huh, which was random, and he got
Speaker 1: so uptight as soon as alcohol was mentioned, and like
Speaker 1: he was being like, so chill generally, and then as
Speaker 1: soon ascohol is brought up, he was like, I.
Speaker 2: Never touched that stuff.
Speaker 1: That stuff is horrible if you want to actually make games.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I hate this mindset, like it's
Speaker 1: like not everything has to be productive and perfection.
Speaker 3: And also, I mean, I guess the other side of
Speaker 3: this is this idea that like all of your productivity
Speaker 3: is in making your body better. Yes, but that's like
Speaker 3: an actual moral work that you're doing by avoiding any
Speaker 3: kind of vice, as if you know, eating eight hundred
Speaker 3: calories a day and like hitting your protein macros isn't
Speaker 3: also advice. Yeah, and it's like really disturbing and upsetting
Speaker 3: to me. I feel like it's even affecting my social life,
Speaker 3: where there are people like I want to spend a
Speaker 3: kind of like relaxed time with, but I can't because
Speaker 3: they're just like in this prison of optimism.
Speaker 2: I know, the prison of optimization is really is really real,
Speaker 2: and it goes beyond any kind of like alcohol or anything.
Speaker 2: It's just like you have to accept that social life
Speaker 2: means sacrificing some part of your personal preferences for the
Speaker 2: group exactly, for anyone listening. We're now past talking about alcohol.
Speaker 2: I'm not implying people that don't drink me to suck
Speaker 2: it up and drink. Well.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, we're talking about like body cause I feel
Speaker 1: like in gay world specifically, there's like that thing of
Speaker 1: like you like sexual you hang out people who are
Speaker 1: kind of your body type. But then there's this thing
Speaker 1: of like, well, but I want to hang out the
Speaker 1: people I get along with, and that those two don't necessarily.
Speaker 2: But they're on G. Yeah, I want to hang out
Speaker 2: with my friends, but they're on G. So it is
Speaker 2: it's the famous problem. It's a really confusing issue. Yeah, no,
Speaker 2: it'sir and they're sort of like what are you doing?
Speaker 2: Like why are you eating that?
Speaker 3: Like we're hanging out right exactly.
Speaker 1: And it's like this weird thing that is in the
Speaker 1: way they're also also.
Speaker 2: It's like everyone has these friends where you're like, okay,
Speaker 2: time to hang out here we fucking go like what
Speaker 2: is it going to be this time? Like, oh, you're
Speaker 2: you know, you're like fasting this week because you have
Speaker 2: this thing You're like not you know, you're you're not
Speaker 2: avoiding the sea train because you're at your horoscope Like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's weird. And also it's such a it's
Speaker 3: an in your thirties thing. Yeah everyone right, I just
Speaker 3: turned thirty three. I mean you really roasted us two
Speaker 3: ago at that show.
Speaker 2: George, Oh my god, yes, yes, yes, please place you
Speaker 2: can break the foork wall show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jesus here Jesus. Do you guys do Jesus.
Speaker 2: I grew up with more religion than you did.
Speaker 1: Probably you didn't have very much religion.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm always like, okay, here's my thing with religion,
Speaker 2: because it was it was just religion was never traumatizing
Speaker 2: for me, Like it was always so casual and just
Speaker 2: like part of our culture, like I'm going to church
Speaker 2: for Easter, but I have not given any thought to
Speaker 2: what that means more broadly, or like how I feel
Speaker 2: about you, Like it just is like not a not
Speaker 2: something I never felt that like rub up against, like
Speaker 2: being gay or like anything. Like. It was just very casual.
Speaker 2: So I always forget that for other people religion was
Speaker 2: traumatic and I'm very cavalier about it.
Speaker 3: How do you feel that's interesting? I there was a
Speaker 3: time in my life where you know, I became a
Speaker 3: lapsed Catholic, which means I was like.
Speaker 2: A staunch atheist. I was like Richard Dawkins level in college.
Speaker 2: But you have to go through that phase.
Speaker 3: You do, because you're just like rebelling as you do
Speaker 3: with anything else. And then after a while, I think
Speaker 3: I moved to a neighborhood with a lot of church
Speaker 3: ladies in it, and they would just wake up on
Speaker 3: Sunday looking so fab fascinator on, you know, just like
Speaker 3: matching all together, like walking really slow down the sidewalk.
Speaker 3: It was their runway. And it's like, I'm okay with this. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, the oppression, the repression not great. Yeah, It's
Speaker 3: caused a lot of stress in my life. But I'm
Speaker 3: just like, we do our shit, you know, like we
Speaker 3: are obsessed with going to sailor on decab like four
Speaker 3: times a week.
Speaker 2: Totally just got to get there.
Speaker 3: I've actually only ripen them once, but you know what
Speaker 3: I'm referencing, Yes, So I'm just kind of like people
Speaker 3: have their things at this point, and I'm willing to
Speaker 3: kind of have a more like micro vision of what
Speaker 3: it is that religion does for people as opposed to
Speaker 3: having the like haranguing you know, this.
Speaker 2: Is I feel the same. Course, then sometimes you're reminded.
Speaker 2: It's like you can say that and then you're and
Speaker 2: then you hear some story of someone who is like
Speaker 2: I don't know, sent to convergent therapy or like oh god,
Speaker 2: I write right, of course that's bad.
Speaker 1: Religion is a lot like YouTube, and of course it's
Speaker 1: anyone should use it.
Speaker 2: It's fun, but it's like it does radicalize people. Twenty
Speaker 2: sixteen was America Turning thirty. A religion is a lot
Speaker 2: like YouTube. Should we do our first segment?
Speaker 3: Sorry, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2: Our first segment is called straight Shooters, and in this
Speaker 2: segment we ask you a series of rapid fire questions
Speaker 2: to gauge your familiarity familiarity with in complicity and straight culture.
Speaker 2: The one it's just one thing or another thing, and
Speaker 2: you have to choose one, and you have to go
Speaker 2: with your gut. And the one rule is you can't
Speaker 2: ask any follow up questions about how the game works.
Speaker 3: Wow, this is very strange.
Speaker 1: Okay, Duren gin or aquamarine.
Speaker 5: Aquamarine women, Right, that was a follow up Question's so
Speaker 5: word deducting points Durin women in Space or Numi Rapace.
Speaker 3: Women in Space. Okay, but not for the reason you think.
Speaker 3: All right, I'm this.
Speaker 1: Lord's Big comeback. Or Orange is the new Black, Oh.
Speaker 4: Oh oh, or just the new flat shout out to Netflix,
Speaker 4: Russian Dressing or American Express Oh Russian dressing.
Speaker 1: Okay, being a New York Times bestseller, or having committed
Speaker 1: crimes against a bank teller.
Speaker 6: Oh oh, having committed crimes against the bank.
Speaker 2: Teller starting a trade war? Or what was I made for?
Speaker 3: What was I made for?
Speaker 2: Okay? Ai slop or gay guy flop.
Speaker 3: Gay guy flop?
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, military spending or Jupiter ascending.
Speaker 3: Jupiter ascending, Jupiter ascending?
Speaker 2: Wow? Are you Jupiter ascending? Stand?
Speaker 3: I don't know?
Speaker 2: Was that the yes? Okay? What so are we doing
Speaker 2: our new grading system? Oh? Okay, so durine to fill
Speaker 2: you in. For years we rated guests from a scale
Speaker 2: of zero to one thousand doves, named after the Lady
Speaker 2: Gaga song one thousand Doves. But we recently.
Speaker 1: Decided, what do zero one thousand blades of grasses of grass?
Speaker 2: Okay, we can do our new ranking.
Speaker 1: Well, then I'm gonna go ahead and say eight hundred
Speaker 1: and sixty two blades of grass.
Speaker 2: Wow, good Jo, that's a really high. That's a really
Speaker 2: good score.
Speaker 1: I felt like there was a sense of wonder yay.
Speaker 1: I liked the confusion. That felt nice.
Speaker 2: You had a charisma and an on camera sort of
Speaker 2: charm that I think many people don't.
Speaker 3: It's funny because I have such anxiety about being on camera. Really,
Speaker 3: the whole point of being a writer, So you can't
Speaker 3: don't have to be seen. I don't want to be seen.
Speaker 3: You know how people want to be.
Speaker 1: Seen that yeah, I wish I didn't want to see.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you have to remember to put substance behind it.
Speaker 2: Totally. No, it's I have to put a little note
Speaker 2: in my phone at substance.
Speaker 1: Don't forget substance, have something else.
Speaker 2: I have a new idea. Uh oh, okay, get ready.
Speaker 2: This is a new concept that I'm inventing.
Speaker 3: I'm not ready. I just want to say, okay.
Speaker 2: So obviously the dream is for everything you do to
Speaker 2: have substance. In today's fast paced media ecosystem, that's not sustainable. Right.
Speaker 2: Let's say you're a an LGBTQ plus creator. You know
Speaker 2: you're gonna have some things that are your body of
Speaker 2: work and some things that are like Instagram, Reils promo, whatever.
Speaker 2: We need to come up with the ratio that's like,
Speaker 2: this is the ratio of like substance the not substance
Speaker 2: that is allowed, and if you pass it in the
Speaker 2: no substance direction, you're thrown off of Instagram.
Speaker 1: Wow, you're at least like you're you have like a
Speaker 1: two week band.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, like I think so maybe it's like okay.
Speaker 1: Okay, but substance Okay, I'm trying to think, like in
Speaker 1: the in the comedy sphere, so this would be like
Speaker 1: the thing, a thing that is actually like comedic has
Speaker 1: a point of.
Speaker 2: View rather than catering to the algorithm.
Speaker 1: Not catering algorithm, and not just like a picture. Or
Speaker 1: is it not that I can't tell what is more meaningful?
Speaker 2: Honestly, I'm even like, Okay, let's say you're a is
Speaker 2: all digital content substanceless to begin with? I think yes.
Speaker 1: I think anytime you're looking for fandom in the in
Speaker 1: the social media verse, which is what most people are
Speaker 1: doing now, it's substanceless. I think the only pure social
Speaker 1: media was when it was posting pics for your friends. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the washed out picks and two us, Yes, totally exactly.
Speaker 3: But are we being resistant to the state of things?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, obviously conservatives are even.
Speaker 1: Were my hat?
Speaker 3: I mean to say, we are not like digital natives, right, yeah,
Speaker 3: but if you're a fifteen year old, imagine having this conversation. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they're like smart luod ites whatever, who are like the
Speaker 3: internet is bad for you. But there are other people
Speaker 3: who don't have like a value value system, or they
Speaker 3: don't apply value to the Internet because it is what
Speaker 3: it is. It's a sky.
Speaker 2: Everything. We can't make technologically determinists. Okay, we can't. We
Speaker 2: can't say all social media. It can't be based on
Speaker 2: the medium, I guess is what you're saying.
Speaker 3: But we can say that if you do two sponsored
Speaker 3: posts in a row, I'm actually not going to like
Speaker 3: the second because at that point I need something.
Speaker 2: If you're doing a sponsored post that's not spreading positivity,
Speaker 2: that is doing ad copy.
Speaker 1: If you're being like, please comment on my sponsored post
Speaker 1: so it gets more engagement, so I get I need
Speaker 1: ten percent. Yeah, okay, Well, I'm glad that's covered.
Speaker 2: Maybe we should as a blanket say just like sixty
Speaker 2: forty sixty and we're still working on defining what and
Speaker 2: we're still working but the golden ratio they call it
Speaker 2: sixty forty. Yeah, okay, I think that's great. Doreen. Yes,
Speaker 2: what is your straight topic and what do you think
Speaker 2: is straight about it?
Speaker 3: Okay? My straight topic is the toe bag?
Speaker 2: Which one?
Speaker 3: Before I say which one?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 3: Okay, I do want to shout out Amelia Petrarca. Oh, yes, Chapera,
Speaker 3: she was great, and she last year wrote this. I
Speaker 3: think you could call it like a treatise against the
Speaker 3: flaccid tote bag.
Speaker 2: What I'm scared think about it.
Speaker 3: You have a toe bag, it's on your shoulder. It
Speaker 3: should have things in it, right, Like the whole point
Speaker 3: of a toe bag is like I can't wear like
Speaker 3: my real bag right now. I'm also not gonna wear
Speaker 3: a backpack because I'm an adult. But I have like
Speaker 3: a lot of things with me, you know, like I
Speaker 3: have my tampons, I have my wallet, I have a
Speaker 3: bottle of water, I have a chopp salad. All this
Speaker 3: stuff in my toe bag and it signals life, right.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: So the point of the toe back is not actually,
Speaker 3: to me, the surface of the toe back, So it
Speaker 3: says it's about the fact that you're like a person
Speaker 3: on the go, like you're a little harried, you're you're
Speaker 3: a messy, buond person and you just need to throw
Speaker 3: everything in the bag, right yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And so when people carry a particular tote bag from
Speaker 3: a particular magazine, per se and there's nothing in it,
Speaker 3: to me, I'm like, that's like that that's like the straightness.
Speaker 2: In it right, yeah, because you're just signaling you're not
Speaker 2: using it as a bag, You're using it as a
Speaker 2: graphic tea exactly. Yeah, yeah, no that yeah, And then
Speaker 2: it's you know what it is, the bag is wearing you.
Speaker 3: You're not working exactly, and you're supposed to wear a
Speaker 3: bag totally.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people don't know this anymore, are you guys? eBay people?
Speaker 2: You know? Here's the thing. Thank you for asking first
Speaker 2: of all and giving me the platform to answer. I
Speaker 2: want so badly to.
Speaker 3: Be an eBay person and everyone can be.
Speaker 2: I My biggest shame is how I've had some successes
Speaker 2: with vintage shopping, but it's not in me, Like it
Speaker 2: stresses me out so much. I will make an amazing
Speaker 2: vintage purchase once a year and it will be all
Speaker 2: I talk about for months. As you know, yeah, are
Speaker 2: you an eBay person? It's like the idea that I
Speaker 2: would find a perfect leather jacket on eBay Like that
Speaker 2: seems to me more less likely of me becoming president.
Speaker 1: Well it's well, say I order it, it comes to
Speaker 1: my house, I put it on, it doesn't fit.
Speaker 2: Then what then I just have this jacket?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: Then I'm not all you basically this is a lifestyle
Speaker 3: though like this, the lifestyle of constant ordering and returning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, is like to me, return I bought when I
Speaker 2: all right, take my special. Last week I bought three shirts,
Speaker 2: none of which I ended up wearing. They are now
Speaker 2: in a bag and I have to return all three
Speaker 2: of them, and I can feel the clock ticking. Honey,
Speaker 2: I am not making plans to keep those shirts.
Speaker 3: But once you like permit yourself to return things that
Speaker 3: you buy online, like everything changes total Because and that
Speaker 3: happened for me last Wow, I had this moment where
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm actually going to get my money back. Wow,
Speaker 3: and I've reclaimed my time, everything, my power. It was amazing.
Speaker 2: That's so amazing.
Speaker 3: The reason why I brought it up is because one
Speaker 3: thing I love doing. I'm actually not shopping right now
Speaker 3: because it's the problem, but I love getting like old
Speaker 3: bags on eBay because the thing about a bag is
Speaker 3: like you actually really want it to be worn. You
Speaker 3: want it to stretch, be elastic, to be kind of weather.
Speaker 2: Like purse, like a like a nice like a bag, not.
Speaker 3: A r Metz bag. Not yet rebe If this podcast
Speaker 3: goes well, yeah, but that's it just relates to what
Speaker 3: I'm thinking where I'm like, Okay, you're just like wearing
Speaker 3: this toe bag. You're not actually using it because you're
Speaker 3: using it to signal something about like your liberalism and
Speaker 3: your politics, and you're forgetting the romance of the bag.
Speaker 3: Bags are so romantic, you know, it's like sex a bag.
Speaker 2: Bags are sex.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know you're like ruffling through it. It has
Speaker 3: everything you want. You put it down, you pick it up.
Speaker 3: That's sex.
Speaker 2: Okay, So here's what you're there's something in there.
Speaker 3: Froyd did a whole thing about this.
Speaker 2: And do you know what plane bag is. It's someone
Speaker 2: who is like a sex positivity influencer, but you can
Speaker 2: tell they don't have sex. It's someone who makes video
Speaker 2: front to camera videos that are like okay, so choosing
Speaker 2: the right butt podcast And then and you're like, have
Speaker 2: you ever had sex? Yeah? That's really tough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Okay, another reason why a bag is sex?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like the whole thing of like, as a boy,
Speaker 1: you're like I was taught as a child like don't
Speaker 1: look at a woman's bag.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's like how did it make you feel?
Speaker 2: Well? Like I want to have sex with that?
Speaker 3: Bag.
Speaker 2: Well, there is something even when you see a woman
Speaker 2: opening the bag and going and you're like.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's like it's really erotic.
Speaker 2: It's very erotic. It's also I won't it's almost like breastfeeding.
Speaker 3: I was just gonna say that. I was just gonna say.
Speaker 2: Because here's the thing with breastfeeding, it's still weird space
Speaker 2: between private and public because of course you want to celebrate,
Speaker 2: like you do not ever want to what's the.
Speaker 3: Word stigmatizigmatize it, yes, but.
Speaker 2: You're also not going to be like taking a photo
Speaker 2: like smile, like taking a photo of a woman. So
Speaker 2: it's like this weird midway point where you're like, there
Speaker 2: are two there are three options private, public, empowered, and
Speaker 2: it is empowered.
Speaker 3: One of the funnier empowered options I think in the
Speaker 3: past like fifteen years is the breastfeeding pod.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so funny because it's like someone is walking
Speaker 3: in with their child and you're just like, yeah, girl,
Speaker 3: you're about to go breastfeed. But I also can't see
Speaker 3: it exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's totally good.
Speaker 1: That leans more towards shame to me, so like I'm
Speaker 1: going to the bathroom, but for breastfeeding.
Speaker 2: Well, it's not shame. It's quiet luxury, quiet luxury. It's
Speaker 2: like you see someone wearing a gorgeous look from the
Speaker 2: Rows twenty one and you're and if you're a classy person,
Speaker 2: you're not going to stop them on the street and
Speaker 2: say is that the Row. You're just gonna sort of
Speaker 2: given them up and down and say I see you, Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2: And that's how I feel about breastfeedingastfeed.
Speaker 3: You know, I did the Row.
Speaker 2: No, it is not as good quality as people say it.
Speaker 3: It's not. And the prices that you are paying shocking
Speaker 3: down payment prices.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: Literally, you're like, where's Klarna?
Speaker 3: Do I Clarona my eggs? Or do I Karna my shoes?
Speaker 3: From the Row? I want to a really fabulous Fincher
Speaker 3: store downtown and there was a Row frock shapeless, which
Speaker 3: I like, Yeah, I was like, let me try it on.
Speaker 3: It was affordable for the Row. And I tried it
Speaker 3: on and I looked like I looked like death, Like
Speaker 3: I looked like, you know, depictions of death and ramantic death.
Speaker 3: I would never say that, No, like you know, death
Speaker 3: as like a black triangle, just like like motionless se Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: it just I don't.
Speaker 1: Know, people pay a lot of money, don't like death.
Speaker 3: But maybe I'm just like kind of a basic like
Speaker 3: femme girl, Like I do like feeling like the closer,
Speaker 3: like you know, demanding that I show off my waist
Speaker 3: or whatever, like oh that stuff. I like that stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I find the row is always to me just implied,
Speaker 1: like you just want to spend a lot of money
Speaker 1: on something.
Speaker 2: Right, It's sort of like you have a fetish for
Speaker 2: spending money literally more so than for a specific.
Speaker 3: Type yourself yourself. Yeah, but you're like a good person,
Speaker 3: You're a good shopper. Yeah, because you're deciding to spend
Speaker 3: three thousand dollars on a sweater as opposed to accruing
Speaker 3: a lot of fast fashion, and there's never a third
Speaker 3: option that you might just like not spend money on
Speaker 3: yourself at all and not be materialist.
Speaker 1: Well, there's also something about the row being quiet luxury,
Speaker 1: where you're like, well, why why why so quiet?
Speaker 2: What are you ashamed of? What do you hide? It?
Speaker 2: Totally like soft life?
Speaker 3: Can we go there?
Speaker 2: Wait?
Speaker 3: What soft life? You guys know about stuff?
Speaker 2: What's soft life?
Speaker 3: I wonder if this is like a racialized thing, but
Speaker 3: in the past two years, I kept seeing posts and
Speaker 3: essays from people, you like black, like middle class, like
Speaker 3: well educated women who are like, I'm not doing a
Speaker 3: hard life anymore. I'm going to do soft life. So
Speaker 3: soft life means like I'm not going to be I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna have political opinions because you don't listen to me.
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna go to Miami.
Speaker 2: I feel humiliated, first of all, that I've never heard
Speaker 2: about this.
Speaker 3: This is so interesting. Maybe there's still a little segregation
Speaker 3: in the world. I'm interesting, but yeah, it's like it's
Speaker 3: completely taken over. Like some of the most like industrious,
Speaker 3: like exciting women I know are now.
Speaker 2: Like in Miami.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess it's like black the black
Speaker 3: version of like trad wife culture.
Speaker 2: Oh but it is also women. Yeah, Is it also men?
Speaker 3: No, it's a very singular They probably are, but I
Speaker 3: haven't found them. But it's like, singularly it's about like
Speaker 3: the overworked black women.
Speaker 2: It is a response. It is a response to like
Speaker 2: white people having signs that say listen to Black women
Speaker 2: being like no, thank you, I'm going to Miami as one.
Speaker 3: Don't listen to me, like the ship that I say
Speaker 3: sometimes Sure, it's like.
Speaker 2: I'm not, I mean, on this podcast. Yeah, we've always
Speaker 2: insulted so many communities.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I have no No, No.
Speaker 2: You haven't. I'm just bags. Yeah, I wait, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, I go back to the toe. I want
Speaker 2: to go back to tote, even though I'm like, we
Speaker 2: have to have you back on to discuss soft life
Speaker 2: because I'm.
Speaker 1: Well, it's a like we talked about like sort of
Speaker 1: head in the Sand vibes right away.
Speaker 2: So Head in the Sand was last summer. Each summer
Speaker 2: we say what summer it is, So there was one
Speaker 2: summer that was cliff girl summer. We can't get into it.
Speaker 2: And but last summer was head in the Sand girl summer.
Speaker 2: And it was because people were no longer reading the news. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so that's sort of what soft life is.
Speaker 3: Yes, it is an extension of that. It's like not
Speaker 3: reading the news because I don't know, like if you
Speaker 3: think about like Kamala losing for example, Like there was
Speaker 3: a response from a lot of people that was like
Speaker 3: you didn't listen to us, So we're just gonna like
Speaker 3: abandon any of like I don't know, like moral rectitude.
Speaker 2: It's like why try if no one is paying attention.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but or it's not really like if no one
Speaker 3: is paying attention, it's just like we're not going to
Speaker 3: save you anymore.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, which is you know what
Speaker 2: if I suddenly do that even though even though I'm
Speaker 2: not in that, I'm saying, like, you guys are not listening.
Speaker 1: Well, GA, guys kind of arguing that at all times,
Speaker 1: the summer vacations are skipping.
Speaker 2: GA guys are skipping the chapter where you are politically
Speaker 2: engaged and want people who listen to you and are
Speaker 2: going straight to stop play.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's almost that season. We're in the middle
Speaker 3: of April is.
Speaker 2: Coming.
Speaker 3: Wait, what do you What's What's what's Pulia this summer?
Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm almost scared to even say this on air.
Speaker 2: I have heard so I am being pressured to go
Speaker 2: to Genoa. What's that Italy?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's new. I haven't heard that.
Speaker 2: I think that's going to be the new Pulia.
Speaker 3: Okay, are you gonna are you going to submit to
Speaker 3: the pressure?
Speaker 2: I think so I haven't taken I haven't taken a
Speaker 2: vacation that wasn't family oriented in maybe pre pandemic. So
Speaker 2: I think this is going to be my big treat
Speaker 2: to myself. What's the first word you guys keep saying?
Speaker 2: Pulia is a is a big vacation destination that people
Speaker 2: go to. Where is it it is in Italy?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Damn.
Speaker 1: It's so awesome when something goes completely over your head
Speaker 1: because it's sort of like, I'm glad I didn't even
Speaker 1: know to want.
Speaker 2: Like that's kind of a.
Speaker 3: Nice it's very philosophy that you've just been.
Speaker 2: There to not know, don't know, don't want. So it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: desires beautiful, the soft life of desire.
Speaker 3: During write that down, let me just get my pen
Speaker 3: out of my toe bag that's full of things.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I have another thing about sex being bad
Speaker 2: about bags being sex Okay, and this is controversial. Think
Speaker 2: about the life cycle of a bag visa v brand new, spink,
Speaker 2: brand new clean versus completely round through, right, there's something
Speaker 2: where it's like, if it's too clean, that's not attractive, yes,
Speaker 2: but sorry, if it's too dirty, that's also not attractive.
Speaker 2: Part so is mine, honestly, but part of I think
Speaker 2: there's something there's always this give and take between virginal
Speaker 2: culture and sex positivity, and ultimately we come out somewhere
Speaker 2: in the middle where it's like you have to have
Speaker 2: a certain level of sexual experience to be valid. But
Speaker 2: then don't go too far because this is still a judo.
Speaker 2: We run on Judeo Christian value in this town, in
Speaker 2: this fucking city.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, should we start a coffee shop instead
Speaker 3: of we run on Duncan Christian values?
Speaker 2: Honestly, would do amazing, That would be really great. I
Speaker 2: think we we are.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much we're allowed to talk about it,
Speaker 1: and it's okay if not, but like the New Yorker tote.
Speaker 2: Of it at all, Yeah, like that we were talking
Speaker 2: around you were You're being so virginal.
Speaker 1: And it's just like it implies so much. There's like
Speaker 1: a status level to it, and then there's like a
Speaker 1: conversation about like there's a hate towards it because of
Speaker 1: the status level and this thing that like cycles around
Speaker 1: my ahead. Well, I don't know where to stand on it,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know where we where it lands in
Speaker 1: the culture right now.
Speaker 2: I can, I'll say something and then maybe that'll inspire
Speaker 2: other opinions. I think one of the reasons why a
Speaker 2: New Yorker toade is straight is because it is the
Speaker 2: default tote. Like there's something hegemonic about it, regardless of
Speaker 2: how you feel about the actual New Yorker magazine. It
Speaker 2: is like, think tote, what do you think do you think
Speaker 2: in New York or toad? Yeah, there is standard. It
Speaker 2: is standard. And I think that is where a lot
Speaker 2: of the like because it has become canonized in this way.
Speaker 2: That's where the backlash comes from.
Speaker 3: Right. It's also we're having a very New York centric.
Speaker 1: Like.
Speaker 3: Part of the reason why you even feel strong emotion
Speaker 3: when you see someone wearing that tote is because you're
Speaker 3: probably seeing them wear it and you know these neighborhoods.
Speaker 3: Yes I'm not gonna name them not I've been talking
Speaker 3: about dos the neighborhoods please and so the and then
Speaker 3: you you are filled with the self loathing mm hmm
Speaker 3: because you're like, I'm one of them, Yes, because you're
Speaker 3: you're like, I identify that status simple. It's not so much
Speaker 3: about the person wearing it. It's about the fact that
Speaker 3: you have this knowledge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's even like there's something if we're talking about
Speaker 1: sort of let's say the park slope, like wealthy.
Speaker 3: It's sad it's Sam. That's crazy. I just said we
Speaker 3: were not naming neighborhoods.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm calling everyone out today. Enough the Park Slope,
Speaker 1: like wealthy family that's still like liberal and cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you like see.
Speaker 1: Them and you're like I want that, Like I'll never
Speaker 1: be able to have that. Yeah, And I'm like I'm
Speaker 1: jealous of it, And that's the New Yorker toad to
Speaker 1: me kind of and.
Speaker 3: You don't want to admit to yourself that you're jealous
Speaker 3: of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, But then it's people. Then then it
Speaker 1: becomes also people trying to sort of imposter syndrome, like
Speaker 1: they'll like get it because they're like, well, I can
Speaker 1: have a piece of that lifestyle if I just get
Speaker 1: the toe.
Speaker 2: Rare, right, Because there's also the there's the other side
Speaker 2: of it, which is like new college graduates moved to
Speaker 2: New York City, Yeah, wearing a New Yorker toad and
Speaker 2: she's like so excited about her big internship. That's true. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a sweet one.
Speaker 1: I feel like in my youth I would make fun
Speaker 1: of that one. Yet now I now my haggard old
Speaker 1: thank god you read yeah totally. You know, like someone
Speaker 1: is paying a subscription.
Speaker 2: That's great. Here's what I have to say, Let's see
Speaker 2: more New Yorker magazines if you're in New Yorker toats
Speaker 2: because I'm on these trains and I'm seeing way more
Speaker 2: totes than people reading the magazine.
Speaker 3: And they used to tear that magazine up on the train.
Speaker 2: It's true, yeah all the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's like the New Yorker magazine no
Speaker 3: longer on trains. What is on trains is speakers.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are so many speakers on the trains.
Speaker 2: Speakers on the train.
Speaker 3: And I have been taking the train by myself since
Speaker 3: I was maybe like ten or eleven years old, and
Speaker 3: there was I've seen some stuff. I once saw a
Speaker 3: kid get his iPod stolen from him out of his hand.
Speaker 3: Oh no, on the two train. I was like fourteen,
Speaker 3: coming home from high school that day. And it wasn't
Speaker 3: even I don't know if you could call it like
Speaker 3: a mugging because there wasn't like really any like deep
Speaker 3: violence involved. This guy was just like your puny, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna take this, and he.
Speaker 2: Just walked off. Sure.
Speaker 3: Sure, I feel like I've seen all kinds of violations,
Speaker 3: but everyone knew, like there was a social trust that
Speaker 3: you wouldn't blast music on the train, and now it's impossible.
Speaker 3: You just go. You're like in a like the seven
Speaker 3: Circle of Hell train, like car to car, someone's blasting something.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's my suggestion for you, Doreen. Obviously you haven't.
Speaker 2: You you have access to the New Yorker offices Conde Nast.
Speaker 2: You go in there, you get a bunch of New
Speaker 2: Yorker magazines. Whenever someone's blasting music, you go up to them.
Speaker 2: You say, you have them on the shoulder. You say,
Speaker 2: read this instead.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, a street preacher before.
Speaker 2: My job, you say, open to age twenty seven. I
Speaker 2: have an amazing piece. I think you're going to absolutely
Speaker 2: love it.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. I never I don't know. I always
Speaker 3: feel I feel like very not implicated when I see
Speaker 3: people with New york Er gear.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like that's like between you totally.
Speaker 3: And mag Like this is an.
Speaker 2: Interesting thing actually, And I think this weirdly circles back
Speaker 2: to over identification with the tote bag brand. It's like,
Speaker 2: in the same way that a toad can be just
Speaker 2: a toad, or it can be your entire personality, your
Speaker 2: job at this x y Z. Institution can either define
Speaker 2: you to the point where it's like you know in
Speaker 2: your like bio at the parks of food com or
Speaker 2: it can just be like a tangential thing that you
Speaker 2: don't think like it's It would be like if Sam
Speaker 2: and I were like proud iHeart employee, which we always
Speaker 2: right away.
Speaker 1: I know there's something I've always This is an interesting
Speaker 1: point that I haven't really thought about, but I like,
Speaker 1: there are people that make their jobs their whole thing,
Speaker 1: and oh, that's the blank guy. Yes, and then there's
Speaker 1: people that like have that job and like almost keep
Speaker 1: it quiet, so it's not their whole thing, right, And
Speaker 1: I've always really admired the latter half, but also crave
Speaker 1: the legitimacy of the first hours.
Speaker 3: Well, there's something I think we feel that it's cheek. Yeah,
Speaker 3: when someone is like, oh, that's my job, as opposed
Speaker 3: to like, this is my everything, it's quite luxury.
Speaker 1: It's quiet. We can't get enough of this quiet labor.
Speaker 2: It would not be quiet luxury if your handle on
Speaker 2: all platforms was at New York or Dorian, your prophib
Speaker 2: picture was in New Yorker Sketch, and your cover photo
Speaker 2: was the New Yorker Dandee, could you imagine I would
Speaker 2: be like, what a loser?
Speaker 3: I changed the sketch though when we first did it.
Speaker 2: Of course, of course.
Speaker 3: Because I I smile in the world, but not when
Speaker 3: I'm doing my job. I'm a serious woman, of course,
Speaker 3: and our wonderful illustrator give me a smile, and I
Speaker 3: was like absolutely, like I need to be taken seriously,
Speaker 3: so I have like a really straight mind, severe face.
Speaker 3: I think I look like my cartoon though.
Speaker 2: Wait, so did you request for your cartoon to not
Speaker 2: have a smile. That's very that's really funny, that's really good. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I there's something about I remember, this is very it.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's in writing as well, but in
Speaker 1: comedy it was very like early on, when you're just
Speaker 1: a person that sort of does comedy, it's like you're
Speaker 1: trying to prove that you're real, and so there is
Speaker 1: this thing where people are like, I am I have
Speaker 1: been on Comedy Central, right, and that's like your biggest thing,
Speaker 1: and you like post about it constantly and then it
Speaker 1: becomes but then you watch that as like a other,
Speaker 1: as like a peer, and you're like, well, that's tasteless.
Speaker 1: Why are they doing it like that, sure, but I
Speaker 1: get the urge and I feel it's a funny thing
Speaker 1: to try to balance.
Speaker 2: I know. During the Facebook days, a big running joke
Speaker 2: was that comedians would have the way that the the
Speaker 2: way that the structure of Facebook would work is that you,
Speaker 2: they would say works at comedian because do you remember this?
Speaker 2: It would be the company self employed comedians I love.
Speaker 1: I used to screenshot though, because they were a bunch
Speaker 1: and sometimes I have like a few things and they
Speaker 1: would always be so self.
Speaker 3: Serious comedian bartender.
Speaker 2: Yea yeah, best case scenario.
Speaker 3: I used to be like a little bit of a
Speaker 3: comedy groupie. Really yeah, I've never said that that like
Speaker 3: the way it sounds, but it's true.
Speaker 2: For what what's what? Which?
Speaker 3: In college, I just would I was obsessed with the improvos.
Speaker 2: This is the most vulnerable thing.
Speaker 3: I don't know why I'm telling you that that's true.
Speaker 3: I think because I don't know. There's a link right
Speaker 3: between like writing and it's both writing. And I really
Speaker 3: admired that they were like willing to like debase themselves.
Speaker 2: So can I say even more vulnerable? Are you ready
Speaker 2: for this?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Crying?
Speaker 2: In college I was a spoken word group. No way,
Speaker 2: I was obsessed with the spoken word. I was not
Speaker 2: part of it, just to be I was going to say.
Speaker 2: I knew I did not have the talent within me,
Speaker 2: but I would go to all their shows and I
Speaker 2: would like be like legitimate fans of them and like
Speaker 2: befriended them from the shows, and one of them ended
Speaker 2: up becoming a very successful novelist. Oh shout out.
Speaker 1: So you were fans of the college and properup not
Speaker 1: like like uh yeah.
Speaker 3: And then a little bit after college I would go
Speaker 3: to you know, like New York City.
Speaker 2: Something Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so interesting.
Speaker 3: I mean I was obviously I was, But I do
Speaker 3: think comedy is evil, Like I just you know what's.
Speaker 2: Crazy is that it like throughout history has been evil.
Speaker 2: It's just like, well, I'm just thinking about the way
Speaker 2: the role that specifically comedians currently have in normalizing every
Speaker 2: evil thing. It's like it's like someone an evil thing
Speaker 2: will happen and then all the comedians will be like, okay, great,
Speaker 2: so you normalize the sexist part, you normalize the racist part,
Speaker 2: and then let's get together next week and we'll sort
Speaker 2: of figure out. Like it is crazy, and I don't
Speaker 2: know was there a switch that happened or has it
Speaker 2: always been pandemic? The pandemic made things much worse.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, this is something that I also wanted to
Speaker 1: bring up earlier, and I think this is a good
Speaker 1: time for it.
Speaker 2: So we told you about Lizzo's pass.
Speaker 3: Right, I get For some reason, whenever you say that phrase,
Speaker 3: I envision you know, the map like in the beginning
Speaker 3: of like a fantasy. Now you go down Lizzos past.
Speaker 2: That's a reference.
Speaker 1: It's fully Lord of the Rings code I got it
Speaker 1: is do writers face Lizzo's pass? Yes?
Speaker 3: You do?
Speaker 2: Yes, they definitely.
Speaker 1: This was like rejection being like a huge hit right now, Like,
Speaker 1: is he on Lizzo's past writing?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think though, but like I think he's on the
Speaker 1: past current.
Speaker 2: He's on the past. What did Sally Rooney choose? I
Speaker 2: think she chose, well, I know, I don't know. I
Speaker 2: think uh got the mic. I can't, I can't.
Speaker 3: I can't answer that question.
Speaker 2: No, no, we're not. We're not making to answer that question.
Speaker 1: But oh god, okay, can you think of any notable
Speaker 1: writer that you are allowed to talk about that have.
Speaker 2: Well let's start there. Can you think of any notable writer.
Speaker 1: You know, can you think of any writer that has
Speaker 1: gone through Lizo's pass and got in a particular way.
Speaker 2: Do you think Joan Didion chose target or pitchfork?
Speaker 3: That's okay, Yeah, it's so interesting that you bring Joan
Speaker 3: did he enough. I can't believe Joan Didion can come
Speaker 3: up in a conversation so rare because we're talking about agency. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but I do think sometimes Lizzo's Pass is not something
Speaker 3: that is done by the right.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, the winds are blowing and the storm is
Speaker 1: brewing and somebody exactly.
Speaker 3: And your ripman winkle when you wake up and all
Speaker 3: of a sudden you're in like file four.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's fascinating with Joan Didion that like Selene
Speaker 3: had a lot to do with that, you know, all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, like.
Speaker 2: It really did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like that ad. She had always been fetishized as
Speaker 3: opposed to read two different things, and that AD just
Speaker 3: like really accelerated it. I think that the interesting about
Speaker 3: Lizzo's past to me is like you can go back
Speaker 3: and then turn around.
Speaker 2: True, it is a geographic location. You're allowed to travel backwards.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Like sometimes there are writers who you know they
Speaker 3: put out a book or they do a story, or
Speaker 3: they you know, take on a second job. And I'm like,
Speaker 3: that's so that you could get that apartment, you know,
Speaker 3: And I'm fine with that. I think I think, you know,
Speaker 3: I think selling out is a bit of an outdated structure.
Speaker 3: It doesn't really like make sense with the way that
Speaker 3: labor works in the art industry.
Speaker 2: And especially with the substance ratio and social media.
Speaker 3: I think that like it is possible, it might even
Speaker 3: be like good and generative to kind of like dip
Speaker 3: into target.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not target.
Speaker 3: Itself because bad DEI we don't of course, we don't
Speaker 3: top of target. We're costco girls here.
Speaker 2: This is the concept of target.
Speaker 3: Yes, the concept is target. It's useful I think to
Speaker 3: like abandon seriousness and to like, actually, I think, be
Speaker 3: on the level and interact with like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: sort of like basicness of our culture. Obviously, like we
Speaker 3: think it's sacrilegic because we're like writers are supposed to
Speaker 3: be wise, They're supposed to be like above commercialism, above
Speaker 3: all these things. But the dirty secret is like throughout
Speaker 3: much of history, most of them weren't. We just didn't
Speaker 3: have access to the way that they live their lives
Speaker 3: like holistically right. Yeah, and so so Lizzo's past I
Speaker 3: think can be you know, subverted.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Hearing you talk about Liz's past is amazing.
Speaker 1: I really feel it's like when a dramatic actor does
Speaker 1: comedy and you're like, oh my god, I didn't know
Speaker 1: you could be examined like that. Okay, Wow, I think, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm this might actually be a difference between writers versus musicians,
Speaker 1: because I'm trying to examine if musicians.
Speaker 2: If you and go back, okay, who is in music?
Speaker 1: Because writers, I agree, like especially like movie I think
Speaker 1: about like people like movie writers will one weird one one.
Speaker 3: Which is accepted. We sort of understand that in order
Speaker 3: to be a good yeah, like screenwriter, you do have
Speaker 3: to prove that you can make commercial.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But musicians back. The musician that has gone visited
Speaker 2: Target and then went back to the past.
Speaker 3: Was think about it. Let's think about it.
Speaker 1: God, this is hard, Okay, Okay, I have one. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: this isn't quite right. Okay, but maybe it'll lead us
Speaker 1: in the direction. I kind of think bony Vere because
Speaker 1: I felt it was Kanye Target.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing that's a larger conversation with Kanye. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but that's the thing. It's like, I think that's what
Speaker 2: you're implying.
Speaker 1: I think, but I also think that like the second
Speaker 1: album that like won the Grammy and that got like
Speaker 1: this big mainstream thing and it really felt and I
Speaker 1: think it was in commercials for like Apple, and it
Speaker 1: was like okay, this is like he's big now.
Speaker 2: And then he's in Kanye songs and it.
Speaker 1: Was like okay, Like I personally was like, I'm cool,
Speaker 1: I don't care anymore. And then he kind of went
Speaker 1: back and did like electronic weirder music again, and then
Speaker 1: now he sort of settled into a he can go
Speaker 1: either way.
Speaker 2: Okay. So maybe it's musicians. Okay, it's musicians that also
Speaker 2: work as producers. It's like they're a producer. Chapter of
Speaker 2: their life is target, like they can go do a
Speaker 2: you know, do a do a song.
Speaker 3: Okay, sorry, this is I'm going to common deer right now.
Speaker 3: Please please, Because I've written a lot in my life,
Speaker 3: a lot of is ship that's not true. It is great.
Speaker 3: And the best thing I've ever written was one sentence
Speaker 3: and it was a tweet back when we had Twitter,
Speaker 3: and it was black people loved Tam and Paula because
Speaker 3: they do. They do. You're not in your head, I
Speaker 3: see you. There's something about I like one of my
Speaker 3: favorite I guess like outgrowths of like the racialization of
Speaker 3: pop music is the way that like white pop producers
Speaker 3: end up like ventriloquizing what they think black music sounds,
Speaker 3: like like Max Martin, I think is like a really
Speaker 3: great exact. Yeah, Diplo is like a little he's like
Speaker 3: on the more evil side of but this idea, yeah
Speaker 3: that like you know, in the late or like the
Speaker 3: twentieth century, like blackness becomes lingua franca, and people in Sweden,
Speaker 3: people in Perth, Australia feel like a proximity to it.
Speaker 3: It's like sound and then they reinterpret it and I
Speaker 3: don't I'm not talking about appropriation. I'm just talking about
Speaker 3: like this kind of process. And Tame and Paula is
Speaker 3: such a like great commercial example of that because it's
Speaker 3: like funk music. Yeah, but it's so easy listening and
Speaker 3: you just can't help but submit to it, and black
Speaker 3: people love love it. It's just such a thing.
Speaker 2: Is Australian? Are they Are they American? I think they are.
Speaker 3: Kevin Parker Australian is Australian.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay. I once saw them on Halloween and they
Speaker 2: were all dressed like the Spice Girls for Halloween while
Speaker 2: they were on Story. Really it was really special.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's so beautiful. I would have cried.
Speaker 1: Well in the in the spirit of Lis this past word.
Speaker 1: We think Tama Paula is.
Speaker 3: Now TAM and Paula is at TAM and Paula is
Speaker 3: coming back from targeting. Yeah, I agree, taking a long time.
Speaker 2: It's a long check out, it's a long journey.
Speaker 3: He's forgetting something, goes back.
Speaker 2: To Target. Lady is like tapping him on the shoulder.
Speaker 1: I mean literally, that's like, that's like he did the
Speaker 1: Gaga song a few years ago. He's Target.
Speaker 2: Do you think men are afforded more leeway in terms
Speaker 2: of visiting Target than women are? And of course I'm
Speaker 2: thinking of Liz Fair and Jewel. I was women who
Speaker 2: like tried to visit Target and people were like, you
Speaker 2: are that sign love? And I also love the list
Speaker 2: Fair pop record. Yeah yeah, anyway, but it's like when
Speaker 2: they did that, I mean quite literally, Pitchfork gave the
Speaker 2: list Fair Amaze zero and then she was black listed. Right.
Speaker 3: I think I think that that was the case for
Speaker 3: like jen X, and now we're like over correcting for it.
Speaker 2: Yes, totally, do you know what I mean? We're like
Speaker 2: that was Pitchfork's target. Well exactly, how Pitchfork again, all
Speaker 2: my love to everyone we know that rants for Pitchfork.
Speaker 2: But Pitchfork being like announcement we're giving all Taylor Swift
Speaker 2: albums ten point zero starting today, You're just like.
Speaker 3: Okay, exactly. And you know there's people talk about poptimism
Speaker 3: and all these things, but fundamentally, it's like music should
Speaker 3: be like a little difficult to listen.
Speaker 2: To, almost like all art.
Speaker 3: You shouldn't be able. It's just like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: even when Cowboy Carter came out last year, people were
Speaker 3: we're saying in the same breath that it was an
Speaker 3: album that was like questioning this genre, questioning the way
Speaker 3: that it doesn't attend to the black roots of like
Speaker 3: roots music, folk music, all this stuff is doing all
Speaker 3: that stuff, and yet you can play its song and
Speaker 3: target and no one flinches. You know. It's like, how
Speaker 3: can it both be like radical and subversive but also
Speaker 3: just like so like pleasing, Like there's like a solicitous quality.
Speaker 1: It's the question I've never understood. There's like a bit
Speaker 1: because there is like that's like sort of gay credit
Speaker 1: card commercials. It's like people are like, we need this,
Speaker 1: and it's like but we also hate this, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: which is it?
Speaker 2: Is this good or bad?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's a question. Lizzo was just Liza herself was
Speaker 2: just on SNL. She's debuting a new era. Do we
Speaker 2: think Lizzo is going to leave Target?
Speaker 3: I think it's like it's like a Black Mirror episode,
Speaker 3: like you remember the one where they were in a
Speaker 3: snow globe, Like Lizzo thinks she's on Earth, but that's
Speaker 3: that's where she is.
Speaker 1: When I see Lizo's past, I see her like in
Speaker 1: the wall like Han Solo, almost like she is just
Speaker 1: like she is frozen in Target.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's something about it that I find with
Speaker 3: her particularly, it's like kind of heartbreaking.
Speaker 2: Of course, she's so talented.
Speaker 3: She's so talented you can't not give her.
Speaker 2: It's so charismatic. I actually love Lesso.
Speaker 3: And there was a moment where it was like that
Speaker 3: was the reaction that you had to it. Yeah, but
Speaker 3: I don't know for someone who seemed like she had
Speaker 3: such a defined sense of self, she like really disintegrated
Speaker 3: once she like reached a service. And I think maybe
Speaker 3: you're seeing that with a Chapel too.
Speaker 2: It's true where it's just.
Speaker 3: Like you actually for you cannot like stabilize in this moment,
Speaker 3: and so then you just like go down the kind
Speaker 3: of like easy route of wearing a T shirt on
Speaker 3: s and that says terrified on it?
Speaker 2: Right? Is that what I didn't see this? Oh that's
Speaker 2: what she did? She did that she did?
Speaker 1: Oh god, Well, I'm praying for Chapel. I hope she
Speaker 1: survives the past. And yeah, I hope she breaks free
Speaker 1: of the wall that she's frozen in. That's right in
Speaker 1: Liso's Pass. Someone I need to work with an artist
Speaker 1: who can sort of mock up what's past. I see
Speaker 1: it so clearly.
Speaker 2: T shirt that says I Survived's like there's two I
Speaker 2: chose pitchfork, I chose target. There's a way. The way
Speaker 2: that lists pass is a geographic location. I need someone
Speaker 2: to three D under it for me.
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, what is it passing over?
Speaker 2: Well, there's there's a big cliff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I think the cliff might honestly be targeted.
Speaker 2: It's like you don't, you've kind of fall Oh and
Speaker 2: they're not careful enough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because you have to. It's like a winding
Speaker 1: little pass.
Speaker 2: I really am fascinated by your point that you can
Speaker 2: choose pitchfork but have your audience project target. In a
Speaker 2: Joan Didion esquay, I would almost say, back to the
Speaker 2: Sally Rouding conversation, a version of that happened with her,
Speaker 2: Like I actually think she has not changed her writing,
Speaker 2: like she has always been like this, Who I am
Speaker 2: this when I'm interested in these are my politics. This
Speaker 2: is what I'm interested in my characters doing. Like there's no,
Speaker 2: it's not like she in any way sold out. But
Speaker 2: then at some point, because she got so popular, people
Speaker 2: were like target target bitch, Oh my god, I get it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she became the New Yorker tote.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Whoa.
Speaker 3: Now that's that's a really grotesque image. I'm very interested
Speaker 3: in that. Like Sally Ronnie just hanging around.
Speaker 1: Because it became status to have the book and to like,
Speaker 1: you know her, it was like shorthand and it.
Speaker 3: It seemed and continues to seem. You know, she's publishing
Speaker 3: in the Guardian like long essays about you know, like
Speaker 3: why it's essential to be a public intellectual who speaks
Speaker 3: about what's happening in palestime and DNA side. And yet
Speaker 3: her publishing company is like throwing book parties where like
Speaker 3: everything is decked out in the intermezzo, checkboard.
Speaker 2: Don't talk.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she just seems so uninterested in that, and
Speaker 3: it's incredible. I mean that's kind of the dream you
Speaker 3: just in Ireland with your husband writing these books that
Speaker 3: I think maintain their integrity and people can do whatever,
Speaker 3: you know, like the author's dead, they do whatever they
Speaker 3: want with it stateside, and you're just like to do
Speaker 3: your thing because.
Speaker 2: It's literally like you being It's like you are at
Speaker 2: a protest and the target offices are producing tote bags
Speaker 2: with your face on them. There is a polgram of you.
Speaker 2: There's a target that is crazy.
Speaker 3: It's really fascinating. And also I want to emphasize too,
Speaker 3: Like you know, there are some debates that people have
Speaker 3: around Sally Rooney where they're like, oh, is she like
Speaker 3: chick lit? Offer like are we actually like misunderstanding the
Speaker 3: genre that she's writing in because we want to like,
Speaker 3: you know, sort of project these like like higher culture
Speaker 3: ideals onto her, which I also think is mistaken because
Speaker 3: you can write about romance and relationships and not have
Speaker 3: to like denigrate it as I don't as chick lit,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Like, I think that her
Speaker 3: interaction with them like shouldn't be seen through whether or
Speaker 3: not we think her literature is high.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so much of a conversation around Rooney is like,
Speaker 3: is this real literature?
Speaker 2: Don't you think? That goes back to your point about
Speaker 2: cowboy Carter and how how can something be both high art,
Speaker 2: radical whatever and also go down so easy?
Speaker 3: Right, there's something of it, and I don't know.
Speaker 2: What the answer is either what if I did? Yeah,
Speaker 2: that would be awesome. Wow, this has been. I'm impressed.
Speaker 2: My brain is on a treadmill.
Speaker 1: I feel like whenever we start this podcast, I'm like,
Speaker 1: what the hell are we going to talk about?
Speaker 2: To that?
Speaker 3: I was so nervous. I just wanted to say studying
Speaker 3: up last night.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you get the first ever Straighter Lab Award for excellence. Yeah,
Speaker 2: my excellent and audio storytelling. Yeah, this has been.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've engaged in a higher way than normal.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I hope that this episode is sort of like
Speaker 2: the normal people of podcast episode, and that it is
Speaker 2: so sophisticated and intellectual, and yet it goes down soon
Speaker 2: and people are listening to it not on speakers, on
Speaker 2: headphones on the subway, and they're having a debate about
Speaker 2: whether they're having a debate whether about whether we have
Speaker 2: at Lizzo's Paths, have chosen Target or Pitchfork.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I love it when you get meta.
Speaker 2: Can't help ourselves sometimes it's true, it's a disease. Should
Speaker 2: we do our final segment? Yeah, I mean it pains
Speaker 2: me to say, but we have to. I think we
Speaker 2: have to.
Speaker 1: So our final segment is called shout Outs, and in
Speaker 1: this segment we pay homage to the grand straight tradition
Speaker 1: of the radio shout out, shouting out to anything, people, places, things,
Speaker 1: ideas that we are enjoying. And I'm gonna I have one.
Speaker 2: It's always we always think of them on the spot. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I currently don't have one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I okay, I'm gonna start, Okay, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna start.
Speaker 2: I'm going to put the bar low.
Speaker 1: Okay, what's up freak closers and perverts around the globe.
Speaker 1: I haven't done this yet, right, I want to give
Speaker 1: a shout out to the book on everybody's lips, that's
Speaker 1: right rejection. Everyone's been talking about it, and I'm already
Speaker 1: late to the game. But I just finished it and
Speaker 1: I was like, damn, everybody was kind of right.
Speaker 2: I was so blown away by how.
Speaker 1: Cynical, uh, internety sort of there was a meanness to
Speaker 1: it that I really really love. It hit all my
Speaker 1: most evil parts of myself, and I said thank you,
Speaker 1: because it really was like, Oh, if you think you're
Speaker 1: pushing for far, you can always push a little further
Speaker 1: and be a little bit even more. It felt like
Speaker 1: I kept saying, this is a spicy little book, and
Speaker 1: I think everyone should read it.
Speaker 2: If you've spent any.
Speaker 1: Time on the internet, you'll get a kick out of it.
Speaker 1: I love when there's a book du jour that everyone's
Speaker 1: kind of doing at the same time, and I say,
Speaker 1: sey love, Wow, that.
Speaker 3: Was really great. I could hear the radio horns in
Speaker 3: the background.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, okay, you know I'm going to go book,
Speaker 2: but I'm going to go show the opposite direction. What's up,
Speaker 2: freaks the losers. I want to give a shout out
Speaker 2: to the audio book of the Facebook whistleblower Sarah Wynn Williams.
Speaker 2: Careless people. You heard about this, folks. This woman worked
Speaker 2: at Facebook and now has published a book, and it
Speaker 2: is about how Facebook is evil. But what's most amazing
Speaker 2: about it is the inside story she has about Mark
Speaker 2: Zuckerberg and Cheryl Schamberg, including one story where Cheryl is
Speaker 2: offended that the Japanese Prime Minister doesn't want to take
Speaker 2: a photo holding lean In the book, I sort of
Speaker 2: like started this book being like, Oh, she's gonna tell
Speaker 2: it like it is, and it's gonna be so whistleblowery,
Speaker 2: And in fact it's just a series of funny stories
Speaker 2: and she has a New Zealand accent, and I'm listening
Speaker 2: to it while you know, cooking dinner or something, and
Speaker 2: it's just so fun to hear this sort of like
Speaker 2: funny Kiwi woman be dragging Mark Zuckerberg and Cheryl Sammer.
Speaker 2: There was just a story about how everyone was letting
Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg win at Settlers with Katan, and then she,
Speaker 2: in her telling, was like you're all letting him wan
Speaker 2: and then and then then she's like awkward silence, and
Speaker 2: it's this very sort of like she's adopting this voice
Speaker 2: as though she's completely naive and at every point is
Speaker 2: shocked by everything happening around her. And at first it's great,
Speaker 2: but then you're like, you know, what, go off? We're
Speaker 2: living the naive times and it's about time someone wrote
Speaker 2: a book as though they were twelve years old. That's owazing.
Speaker 2: Shout out to Sarah win Williams. I highly recommend the
Speaker 2: audiobook because she does read it herself, and I cannot
Speaker 2: wait to get back to it tonight while I'm making
Speaker 2: my amazing chicken thighs?
Speaker 3: Are they marinating?
Speaker 2: You met there?
Speaker 3: Okay? What's up, y'all? How you doing? It was nice
Speaker 3: being with you today. I'm gonna give a shout out
Speaker 3: to Todd Haynes. I love Todd Haynes. I feel like
Speaker 3: I'm always like where he is. But for some reason,
Speaker 3: I'd never seen Mildred Peers and I had recently. Okay,
Speaker 3: all right, So you know, Todd Haynes is really famous
Speaker 3: for kind of like reinterpreting the dicta of fifties filmmaking
Speaker 3: the kind of woman's picture and putting it through this
Speaker 3: like different I think, like gay your more intellectual filter.
Speaker 3: And Mildred Pears, which he remade in a nineteen forties film.
Speaker 3: The film had been made in the nineteen forties. He
Speaker 3: did this as like a it's technically a mini series,
Speaker 3: but it's really just like a four hour film starring
Speaker 3: Evan rachel Wood and Kate Winsley. Came out like twelve
Speaker 3: years ago. I don't know why I had this blind spot,
Speaker 3: but recently I had like some hours to kill and
Speaker 3: I just sat and watched it. And it is one
Speaker 3: of the most interesting, grotesque, emotionally honest views on motherhood
Speaker 3: I think I've ever seen. So it's about this woman
Speaker 3: who is separating from her husband in the fifties and
Speaker 3: is entering the workforce, and she does work. She opens
Speaker 3: a restaurant at her daughter, who's very much like a
Speaker 3: she she threw through kind of girl looks down on
Speaker 3: and their relationship just like both blossoms and also like
Speaker 3: hurdles and it ends. I don't want to give give
Speaker 3: away that, but I don't know. It's just kind of
Speaker 3: like we still don't know how to deal with motherhood.
Speaker 3: I think in film in particular, like we don't know
Speaker 3: whether we should choose like the sacrificial mother who just
Speaker 3: like gives up her life for the benefit of the child,
Speaker 3: or the selfish mother, or then you know, the indifferent mother,
Speaker 3: and this it just like blew my mind and so
Speaker 3: sorry I forgot the radio voice.
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll still put silly music behind it.
Speaker 3: Perfect. I just would encourage everyone to watch or rewatch.
Speaker 3: Todd Haynes Mildred Peers.
Speaker 2: I'm convinced. This is how I feel about the film
Speaker 2: kind of Pregnant starring Amy Schumer. No, it has been.
Speaker 2: It has been recommended to me so many times, and
Speaker 2: I am actually I think in terms of non television work,
Speaker 2: I do think I'm a Todd Haynes's completest. But I've
Speaker 2: never I've never pressed planned military.
Speaker 3: Well, that's what's really interesting about It's kind of like
Speaker 3: in this limbo because it's like Todd Hans is doing HBO.
Speaker 3: You know, there was a lot of reaction to it
Speaker 3: twelve years ago, but for me, I think it might
Speaker 3: be my favorite. Hand WHOA over Safe?
Speaker 1: That's really okay, Well I'm gonna watch this.
Speaker 3: Can you put like a like a flash bombs sound?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah. Also, don't you feel like Safe is almost
Speaker 2: at the point where people are projecting target onto it.
Speaker 2: It has become too I think popular. It's like everyone's favorite,
Speaker 2: like everyone's like out of the box favorite movies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, have you seen safe?
Speaker 2: Don't you think? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Huh, that's scary when that happens, I know, and yet
Speaker 1: it's so good.
Speaker 2: Well. Oh, this has been an amazing episode of Absolute Heaven.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for doing the things so much fun.
Speaker 2: Lease go to the New Yorker dot com slash streams.
Speaker 3: Phill Oh is that how it works?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Do you have anything else you want
Speaker 2: to promote other than New Yorker dot com?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: Do I want it? Like peace, love and happiness?
Speaker 2: Yes, peace as well?
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't promote yeah, no, no.
Speaker 2: Do you want to give a shout out to Durian's
Speaker 2: review of you Sexua because where a fellow stands? Yes,
Speaker 2: and twig is someone who chose Pitchfork firmly, firmly hardcore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she had no trouble dancing along now and no
Speaker 1: one's projecting target.
Speaker 2: No, she can do as many Google pick slabs as
Speaker 2: she wants. Okay, that was amazing. Okay, bye bye podcast
Speaker 2: and now want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for two
Speaker 2: extra episodes a month, discord access, and more, by heading
Speaker 2: to patreon dot com slash Stradia Lab.
Speaker 1: And for all our visual earners, free full length video
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Speaker 1: Get Back to Work Stradia Lab is a production by
Speaker 1: Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2: Created and hosted by George Severe and Sam Taggart.
Speaker 1: Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Han Soni and Olivia Aguilar.
Speaker 2: Co produced by by Wang, edited.
Speaker 1: And engineered by Adam Avalos.
Speaker 2: Artwork by Michael Fails and Matt Grugg. Theme music by
Speaker 2: Ben Kling