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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, it's say I'm here with a quick little announcement,

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Speaker 1: and that is that we are doing Stridia Lab live

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Speaker 1: back in New York City on Wednesday, April sixteenth at

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Speaker 1: the Bellhouse. Couldn't be more excited. It's a special editions

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Speaker 1: we're calling it Lesbio Lab, and we're discussing lesbian topics

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Speaker 1: with some of our incredible guests, including Sydney Washington, Andrew Longshu,

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Speaker 1: and Natalie Rodter Lateman. So the lineups to die for.

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Speaker 1: I haven't been back in New York in a few months,

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Speaker 1: and I cannot wait. So please get tickets. They're in

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Speaker 1: our bios and we would love to see you there. Bye.

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Speaker 1: Podcast starts now.

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Speaker 2: Wow, you're up here and you say those words.

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Speaker 1: I mean, can you believe it live from New York City?

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Speaker 2: Even for anyone who doesn't know. I mean, people don't

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Speaker 2: realize because it comes out once a week. People don't

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Speaker 2: know that we haven't been together in studio in like

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Speaker 2: four months at this point. Well, when were you in La?

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Speaker 2: Don't fact check me. It's been a while. I'm sorry

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Speaker 2: to debunk you. Okay, we were in La together in February.

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Speaker 2: It's now April that's what five months? Close, close, that's

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Speaker 2: almost five months. If you're round up, that's five months.

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Speaker 2: Think about how long that is multiple of five. No,

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Speaker 2: but it does feel.

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Speaker 1: Different because when we were there, we're still like, we're

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Speaker 1: not like home.

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Speaker 2: I'll be the first to say it. These days, one

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Speaker 2: month feels like a year. Oh my gosh, whatever. They care,

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Speaker 2: But to me there, that's true. No, it actually is true.

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Speaker 1: I literally like, what is going on at all times?

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Speaker 2: I know? Can we we have to debut your big

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Speaker 2: theory about turning thirty versus twenty sixteen on main on

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Speaker 2: the main feed? Okay, is this the time for this

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Speaker 2: is the time? Okay, go okay.

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Speaker 1: Ever since literally the day I turned thirty, I have

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Speaker 1: had seemingly one health issue after the next. And that

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Speaker 1: has been five years of consistently like being like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well this is gonna be my year. Something horrible happens.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And then that's like.

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Speaker 1: How in twenty sixteen when Trump was elected, You're like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is the worst thing that's ever going to happen,

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Speaker 1: and then horrible things kept happening after that in a

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Speaker 1: way that you're like, oh, I'm actually just at the

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Speaker 1: beginning of a free fall, and I don't know where

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Speaker 1: I'm going to land.

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Speaker 2: This is one of your most genius theories that twenty

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Speaker 2: sixteen is when America turned thirty.

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Speaker 1: And it was also one of those things where I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to believe it because I don't want to

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Speaker 1: know most people that's like, oh, blurg, I'm thirty and

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Speaker 1: my back hurts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like the American populist during the Pussy March or

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Speaker 2: Women's March. Sorry, sorry about it. I just thought pussy, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: don't you think that. Sorry not to be anti woman. No, No,

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Speaker 2: the Women's March was America collectively being like blurg. It

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Speaker 2: was a.

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Speaker 1: Blurg, and it was like I was thirty now and now,

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Speaker 1: and then it just kept and now they're like fuck,

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Speaker 1: I'm thirty now.

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Speaker 2: Like it's like yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: They just keep the suffering keeps happening, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know where we're going to land forty. But did you

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Speaker 1: come out like I do have a fantasy that thirty

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Speaker 1: is like a transitional I completely agree where you're losing

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Speaker 1: your youth slowly, but then you do settle.

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Speaker 2: I think forties, as I've always said. One time, I

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Speaker 2: read an Amy Polar quote that I think was fake

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Speaker 2: and AI generated, but it really stuck with me.

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Speaker 1: You have to you have to take away the authenticity

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Speaker 1: from the meaning that gave you.

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Speaker 2: I can. It's sort of like it's spiritually true to me.

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Speaker 2: And I've brought it up many times on this podcast.

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Speaker 2: If you felt it, it's true. So she said, you know,

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Speaker 2: your twenties are for figuring out what you're not, your

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Speaker 2: thirties are for figuring out what you are, and then

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Speaker 2: in your forties you say this is who I am. Well,

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Speaker 2: and so I think that America will hit forty soon. Hopefully,

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Speaker 2: you have to hope it'll be a kind of jut appatoel.

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Speaker 2: This is forty moment for the United States of A.

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Speaker 2: And then afterwards, well, we'll hit a level of maturity.

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Speaker 1: Based on the time that it's taken for us to

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Speaker 1: turn thirty. I don't know we'll be alive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it definitely will be hundreds of years. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: we won't be alive anymore.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's too okay.

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Speaker 2: Our children will be alive. We're probably not gonna have

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Speaker 2: kids that come on, you know, it's funny, nephew, Oh

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Speaker 2: my god, that's true. O. Niece and nephews will be

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Speaker 2: absolutely eighty yeah, they'll be eighty yeah. Do you think

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Speaker 2: our nieces and nephews will like make a difference.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about this recently. I was like, actually

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Speaker 2: with my niece yesterday, and I was like, what are

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Speaker 2: your politics going to be when you grow up? There's

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Speaker 2: no way to know, There's.

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Speaker 1: No way to know, you have you can guess a

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Speaker 1: little bit based on you know, socioeconomic backg Right, she is.

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Speaker 2: A white girl growing up in Brooklyn. That could go

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Speaker 2: either way. What if she's part of the downtown scene.

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Speaker 1: You mean she's the news, the new Ault, right, Well,

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Speaker 1: you have to almost respect.

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Speaker 2: That then totally. No, I would definitely be supportive if

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Speaker 2: she was the new Dasha.

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Speaker 1: I'd be like, damn, she's kind of yeah cool.

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Speaker 2: Because I also at that point I would be so

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Speaker 2: old that I wouldn't really know the ins and outs

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Speaker 2: of the debates. I would just be like, she has

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Speaker 2: a podcast, that's fun.

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Speaker 1: It's easier for me to think to fantasize about what

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Speaker 1: their politics will be than it is for me to

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Speaker 1: fantasize about what their view of our politics will be.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's what really scares me is them being like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you actually believe in this?

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Speaker 2: You know what they're gonna think about us. It's like

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Speaker 2: when we watch a documentary about gay New York in

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Speaker 2: like the eighties, and then there's like some old guy

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Speaker 2: that's still wearing a leather choker. That's gonna be us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna hurt. Yeah, but that's okay. This is okay.

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Speaker 1: I have two things I want to talk about.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but we have to bring in our guest. Yes,

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Speaker 2: please do the honor. You know what. Actually, I'm about

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Speaker 2: to get rid for this. I'm about to do something

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Speaker 2: so humiliating, which is that I forgot to ask before

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Speaker 2: the pod if it's Saint Felix or Salt Felik's because

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Speaker 2: I've heard both.

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Speaker 4: Or two.

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Speaker 2: It's the second.

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Speaker 3: And I knew you were going to bring that up.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I because I have said for years, I've said,

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Speaker 2: say Felix and then sorry, but your boss David Remnick

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Speaker 2: on air said Felix, and I said this man, say

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Speaker 2: please welcome Duren San Felip's Hello, Hi, what's up?

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Speaker 4: Wait?

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Speaker 2: So you knew I was going to bring it up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, Because here's the thing. You have a French

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Speaker 3: last name. I have it through slavery of course, and colonization,

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Speaker 3: and it's like you're in America, so you anglicize it

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Speaker 3: all the time to make it easier for people. And

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Speaker 3: then you go to college and you learn you're supposed

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Speaker 3: to reclaim your ancestry, but it's like too late to

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Speaker 3: get people to start pronouncing your name the right way.

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Speaker 3: So for me, it's like some days I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you could say the English way, I don't care, and

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Speaker 3: then other days I'm like, I majored in African American studies.

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Speaker 2: Oh, interesting, that's interesting. You never know which to get.

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Speaker 2: How militants she's bringing a center left energy. This is happening.

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Speaker 1: I have noticed with Rihanna where people are like, well,

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Speaker 1: actually it's Rihanna, but then it has but actually everyone's

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Speaker 1: called her Rihanna forever. But now there's like this back

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Speaker 1: and forth where now there's no way to say it

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Speaker 1: right because everyone's like mad at the other half.

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Speaker 3: Because Rihanna sounds like the woke way to pronounce. You're

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Speaker 3: like soft a yes, sounds midwestern exactly Rihanna.

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Speaker 2: Rihanna sounds and then.

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Speaker 3: You do Rhianna in your head, and then you're mad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, don't go down that road.

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Speaker 1: I find that interesting. I was going to say, okay, now.

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Speaker 2: You have two things, say well, and now during is

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Speaker 2: part of.

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Speaker 1: This and you're part of this, and that adds more

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Speaker 1: pressure to it because they were sort of intro bits

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Speaker 1: in my mind where they're not very good.

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Speaker 2: Let's start there one.

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Speaker 1: I guess I just want to come up and say

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Speaker 1: I'm being targeted and my phone is dying so fast.

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Speaker 1: As of yesterday, I have left the hotel room and

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Speaker 1: I'm at fifty percent. What they do, that's what they do.

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Speaker 2: And now with the tariffs, your next phone's going to

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Speaker 2: cause approximately five thousand dollars. So get ready, bitch, I'm scared. Okay.

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Speaker 1: The next topic is the I think I thought the

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Speaker 1: Midwest trending thing was going to be over.

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Speaker 2: I thought that was sort of the Midwest was trending,

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Speaker 2: the Midwest trending traveling.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know if they wereright about that, New Yorker,

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Speaker 1: but the Midwest, the Midwest is trending, and and before.

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Speaker 2: That, Ireland was trending. Yeah, which I can I can.

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Speaker 3: Really speak on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but now I feel like with Bonnie Bear having

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Speaker 1: a new album, I actually think the West is continuing

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Speaker 1: to trend. Yeah, and in a way where I'm like, wait,

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Speaker 1: is this ever gonna Like I'm like confused by the

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Speaker 1: Midwest trending and I don't know how to interact with it.

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Speaker 2: Duran, what do you think?

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Speaker 3: What do I think about the Midwest trending? What's fascinating

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Speaker 3: because there's still so much I think debate about where

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Speaker 3: the Midwest begins and where men's right. And then there's

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Speaker 3: certain people like Chapel or Bony Bear who are like

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Speaker 3: the saints of that idea. But it's like the Chicago question.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the Chicago question.

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Speaker 3: Is Chicago Midwest or not? I think? But I would

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Speaker 3: so much rather debate this than like the Coastal Wars.

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Speaker 3: You know, that was very like Obama era.

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Speaker 2: Yes, right, you're absolutely right. Obama era was New York

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Speaker 2: versus LA, and Trump era is the Midwest Chicago like

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Speaker 2: the extent.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's a really good point because the Midwest trending

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Speaker 1: is like a town in Minnesota, like the idea of

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Speaker 1: like riding a four wheeler on a farm, like exactly

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Speaker 1: in a thermal whatever Rosen Island.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for me growing up, that's what I thought the

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Speaker 3: Midwest was you grew up in New York, right, I did.

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Speaker 3: I grew up in Brooklyn and South.

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Speaker 2: Are you starstruck?

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Speaker 1: So so what are your politics now?

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Speaker 3: Study black flash?

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Speaker 1: Wow, I don't know why that hit me.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you know what's happening? Yeah, go okay.

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Speaker 1: So I remember I moved around a lot as a kid,

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Speaker 1: and I remember like when I moved to Virginia, so

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Speaker 1: my dad had gone to Duke and so he had

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Speaker 1: like Duke gear, and so when we moved to Virginia,

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Speaker 1: that's like much closer to North Carolina.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, don't bring up white lotus challenge.

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Speaker 1: But I saw like people in Duke merch and I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, like you know what Duke is.

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Speaker 1: Like no one in Michigan or Indiana knew what they

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Speaker 1: knew what it was, but they didn't like talk about

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Speaker 1: it ever. Yeah, And so then like there's something happening

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Speaker 1: here where I'm like, wait, you're from.

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Speaker 2: Brooklyn, And I'm like, right, I'm back. I mean.

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Speaker 3: I know that place for like a long time, like

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Speaker 3: there's a.

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Speaker 2: Big part of my gosh. So I'm sort of realizing that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know, I don't identify with the native

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Speaker 3: New Yorker mythology.

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Speaker 2: Really talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Well, because I grew up past the last stop on

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Speaker 3: the L train, so I went to Manhattan maybe like

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Speaker 3: every eight months. It was just not a part of

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Speaker 3: my world at all. I feel like I grew up

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Speaker 3: like in a strip mall suburb. That's what that part

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Speaker 3: of Brooklyn is like. Sure, yeah, it's like weird Long Island,

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Speaker 3: Like there was this really big park where the Mafia

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Speaker 3: was like just sort of like ending its rain when

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Speaker 3: I was a kid, and it's.

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Speaker 5: Like because you were born, they were like, we can't

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Speaker 5: kill anymore.

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Speaker 2: I want to be good.

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Speaker 3: But it was this interesting time where like white flight

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Speaker 3: was causing like a huge part of the population to leave,

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Speaker 3: and then all these like black and also South Asian

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Speaker 3: families were moving into Brooklyn and kind of like reshaping

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Speaker 3: the space, like the literal space in their identity, and

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Speaker 3: so there.

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Speaker 2: Was more local culture like New York New York Saturday

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Speaker 2: Night exactly.

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Speaker 3: It's like New York, Like New York City felt as

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Speaker 3: far to me as it might have felt to you.

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Speaker 2: Sure interesting, Yeah, I mean that is true. There was

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Speaker 2: a very brief period in my life, as everyone knows

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Speaker 2: where I live in New Jersey suburbs, of course, and

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Speaker 2: I was technically speaking like forty five minutes from the city,

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Speaker 2: but it was not something I considered home by any means.

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Speaker 2: It's probably my cosmopolitan vie.

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Speaker 3: Do you think New Jersey will be trending.

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Speaker 2: Next this isn't it? I actually don't because I think

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Speaker 2: New Jersey I think.

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Speaker 1: It trended in like two thousand eight. I think there

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Speaker 1: was there was the indie rock.

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Speaker 2: It's also before that Bruce Springston. I think Bruce Springsteen

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Speaker 2: trended too hard at his peak. And I think, like

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Speaker 2: I also think there was something around Jersey Shore, Teresa Judais,

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Speaker 2: like all these sort of like trashy New Jersey legends

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Speaker 2: that actually became so big that it made people uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: Like I don't think people like thinking about Snookie right now,

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Speaker 2: whereas they do like like people do like thinking about

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Speaker 2: like Tiffany Pollard or like what are other sort of

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Speaker 2: like reality icons of that era, like people like think

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Speaker 2: about America's next not model, think the real world, like whatever.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think I think the Jersey Shore era

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Speaker 2: is people think of it as a dark era for America.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but that changes so quickly. The fact that it

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Speaker 1: is loaded, means it's coming back soon.

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Speaker 2: So maybe it'll come back in like the twenty thirties.

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Speaker 1: Well, it is like if we're doing Y two K,

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Speaker 1: it's like just around the corner.

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Speaker 3: And also a lot of these figures are you know,

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Speaker 3: like the situation for example, Yeah, who I tend to

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Speaker 3: keep up with? Oh okay, he's sober now, And I

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Speaker 3: feel like that fits into the whole like sober fascism

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Speaker 3: thing that's happening with people.

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Speaker 2: What's that?

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Speaker 3: Well, people are just so intense and it's a morality thing.

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Speaker 1: Now I've I haven't heard it like quit so plainly, like.

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Speaker 3: You're not put it pretty offensively, I.

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Speaker 2: Guess, I mean because I know, yeah I have. I've

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Speaker 2: like picked up on this on.

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Speaker 1: The internet where it's like a sober culture is like

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Speaker 1: hard right now, Well.

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Speaker 3: There were steps. First was Cali sober, which was that

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Speaker 3: you didn't drink alcohol, but you did every other drug

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Speaker 3: known to man. Yeah, and now people are becoming addicted

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Speaker 3: to sobriety, I think, And it's like becoming the entirety

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Speaker 3: of their identity, don't.

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Speaker 2: You think there's also like a to bring it to

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Speaker 2: a straight lab space gendered dynamic of like the feminine

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Speaker 2: to be very essentialist. The feminine part of that is

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Speaker 2: like mocktail culture, yes, and like mocktails being seventeen dollars

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Speaker 2: and it's like Celery shrub and celt or whatever. And

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Speaker 2: then the masculine side is like Huberman was that his name?

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Speaker 2: The podcast the like Stanford podcast health Guy. Oh god,

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Speaker 2: you guys.

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Speaker 3: Are my only podcast.

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Speaker 2: I don't know any but like it, like basically like

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Speaker 2: people that are like almost like manisphere level like work out,

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Speaker 2: take care of your body, raw meats, solar anus. Yes,

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Speaker 2: so those are the two and which and I guess

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Speaker 2: both of those are eclipsing the previous notion of sobriety,

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Speaker 2: which was like aa sobriety right, Yeah, it's almost like

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Speaker 2: being an alcoholic is beside the point when sobriety is

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Speaker 2: a is a fascist lifestyle. That's such.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly what the pivot is because.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's no longer part of an addiction narrative, right WHOA.

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Speaker 3: Like for so many people, it's not necessarily that they

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Speaker 3: had to overcome a dependency on alcoholics probably are not alcoholics.

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Speaker 3: You do have to reach the calm out standard alcohol. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you got to earn it you know what I mean,

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Speaker 3: and you know what the difference.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So first of all, it's good that people are sober,

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Speaker 2: good for them. But there's also another dark element to

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Speaker 2: all this, which is like, sobriety became commodified that so

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Speaker 2: when something becomes commodified, you need more and more people

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Speaker 2: to engage in it. The first round of people are

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Speaker 2: actual recovering alcoholics who are the let's say target market.

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Speaker 2: There's only a limited amount of those, so then you're

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Speaker 2: going to other people, and now you have to find

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Speaker 2: as many people as possible. It's like how Facebook started

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Speaker 2: targeting children and teens after they got all and people

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Speaker 2: in countries, in countries outside America when they got America

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Speaker 2: all hooked, right, you have to keep expanding the market.

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Speaker 1: I was listening to this podcast with a fitness guy

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Speaker 1: on it, uh huh, which was random, and he got

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Speaker 1: so uptight as soon as alcohol was mentioned, and like

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Speaker 1: he was being like, so chill generally, and then as

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Speaker 1: soon ascohol is brought up, he was like, I.

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Speaker 2: Never touched that stuff.

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Speaker 1: That stuff is horrible if you want to actually make games.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I hate this mindset, like it's

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Speaker 1: like not everything has to be productive and perfection.

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Speaker 3: And also, I mean, I guess the other side of

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Speaker 3: this is this idea that like all of your productivity

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Speaker 3: is in making your body better. Yes, but that's like

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Speaker 3: an actual moral work that you're doing by avoiding any

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Speaker 3: kind of vice, as if you know, eating eight hundred

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Speaker 3: calories a day and like hitting your protein macros isn't

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Speaker 3: also advice. Yeah, and it's like really disturbing and upsetting

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Speaker 3: to me. I feel like it's even affecting my social life,

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Speaker 3: where there are people like I want to spend a

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Speaker 3: kind of like relaxed time with, but I can't because

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Speaker 3: they're just like in this prison of optimism.

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Speaker 2: I know, the prison of optimization is really is really real,

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Speaker 2: and it goes beyond any kind of like alcohol or anything.

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Speaker 2: It's just like you have to accept that social life

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Speaker 2: means sacrificing some part of your personal preferences for the

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Speaker 2: group exactly, for anyone listening. We're now past talking about alcohol.

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Speaker 2: I'm not implying people that don't drink me to suck

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Speaker 2: it up and drink. Well.

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Speaker 1: It's yeah, we're talking about like body cause I feel

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Speaker 1: like in gay world specifically, there's like that thing of

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Speaker 1: like you like sexual you hang out people who are

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Speaker 1: kind of your body type. But then there's this thing

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Speaker 1: of like, well, but I want to hang out the

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Speaker 1: people I get along with, and that those two don't necessarily.

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Speaker 2: But they're on G. Yeah, I want to hang out

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Speaker 2: with my friends, but they're on G. So it is

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Speaker 2: it's the famous problem. It's a really confusing issue. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: it'sir and they're sort of like what are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Like why are you eating that?

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Speaker 3: Like we're hanging out right exactly.

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Speaker 1: And it's like this weird thing that is in the

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Speaker 1: way they're also also.

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Speaker 2: It's like everyone has these friends where you're like, okay,

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Speaker 2: time to hang out here we fucking go like what

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Speaker 2: is it going to be this time? Like, oh, you're

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Speaker 2: you know, you're like fasting this week because you have

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Speaker 2: this thing You're like not you know, you're you're not

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Speaker 2: avoiding the sea train because you're at your horoscope Like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's weird. And also it's such a it's

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Speaker 3: an in your thirties thing. Yeah everyone right, I just

379
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Speaker 3: turned thirty three. I mean you really roasted us two

380
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:52,640
Speaker 3: ago at that show.

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Speaker 2: George, Oh my god, yes, yes, yes, please place you

382
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Speaker 2: can break the foork wall show.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Jesus here Jesus. Do you guys do Jesus.

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Speaker 2: I grew up with more religion than you did.

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Speaker 1: Probably you didn't have very much religion.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm always like, okay, here's my thing with religion,

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Speaker 2: because it was it was just religion was never traumatizing

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Speaker 2: for me, Like it was always so casual and just

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Speaker 2: like part of our culture, like I'm going to church

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Speaker 2: for Easter, but I have not given any thought to

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Speaker 2: what that means more broadly, or like how I feel

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Speaker 2: about you, Like it just is like not a not

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Speaker 2: something I never felt that like rub up against, like

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Speaker 2: being gay or like anything. Like. It was just very casual.

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Speaker 2: So I always forget that for other people religion was

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Speaker 2: traumatic and I'm very cavalier about it.

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Speaker 3: How do you feel that's interesting? I there was a

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Speaker 3: time in my life where you know, I became a

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Speaker 3: lapsed Catholic, which means I was like.

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Speaker 2: A staunch atheist. I was like Richard Dawkins level in college.

401
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Speaker 2: But you have to go through that phase.

402
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Speaker 3: You do, because you're just like rebelling as you do

403
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,119
Speaker 3: with anything else. And then after a while, I think

404
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,720
Speaker 3: I moved to a neighborhood with a lot of church

405
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,679
Speaker 3: ladies in it, and they would just wake up on

406
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,960
Speaker 3: Sunday looking so fab fascinator on, you know, just like

407
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,920
Speaker 3: matching all together, like walking really slow down the sidewalk.

408
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 3: It was their runway. And it's like, I'm okay with this. Yeah,

409
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,440
Speaker 3: you know, the oppression, the repression not great. Yeah, It's

410
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,920
Speaker 3: caused a lot of stress in my life. But I'm

411
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 3: just like, we do our shit, you know, like we

412
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,400
Speaker 3: are obsessed with going to sailor on decab like four

413
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Speaker 3: times a week.

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Speaker 2: Totally just got to get there.

415
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Speaker 3: I've actually only ripen them once, but you know what

416
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 3: I'm referencing, Yes, So I'm just kind of like people

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Speaker 3: have their things at this point, and I'm willing to

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Speaker 3: kind of have a more like micro vision of what

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Speaker 3: it is that religion does for people as opposed to

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Speaker 3: having the like haranguing you know, this.

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Speaker 2: Is I feel the same. Course, then sometimes you're reminded.

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00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,919
Speaker 2: It's like you can say that and then you're and

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Speaker 2: then you hear some story of someone who is like

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Speaker 2: I don't know, sent to convergent therapy or like oh god,

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Speaker 2: I write right, of course that's bad.

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Speaker 1: Religion is a lot like YouTube, and of course it's

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Speaker 1: anyone should use it.

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Speaker 2: It's fun, but it's like it does radicalize people. Twenty

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Speaker 2: sixteen was America Turning thirty. A religion is a lot

430
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Speaker 2: like YouTube. Should we do our first segment?

431
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Speaker 3: Sorry, yeah, let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Our first segment is called straight Shooters, and in this

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Speaker 2: segment we ask you a series of rapid fire questions

434
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 2: to gauge your familiarity familiarity with in complicity and straight culture.

435
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Speaker 2: The one it's just one thing or another thing, and

436
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Speaker 2: you have to choose one, and you have to go

437
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 2: with your gut. And the one rule is you can't

438
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 2: ask any follow up questions about how the game works.

439
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,199
Speaker 3: Wow, this is very strange.

440
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:51,120
Speaker 1: Okay, Duren gin or aquamarine.

441
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 5: Aquamarine women, Right, that was a follow up Question's so

442
00:21:55,400 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 5: word deducting points Durin women in Space or Numi Rapace.

443
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 3: Women in Space. Okay, but not for the reason you think.

444
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 3: All right, I'm this.

445
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: Lord's Big comeback. Or Orange is the new Black, Oh.

446
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 4: Oh oh, or just the new flat shout out to Netflix,

447
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 4: Russian Dressing or American Express Oh Russian dressing.

448
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: Okay, being a New York Times bestseller, or having committed

449
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 1: crimes against a bank teller.

450
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 6: Oh oh, having committed crimes against the bank.

451
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 2: Teller starting a trade war? Or what was I made for?

452
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 3: What was I made for?

453
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 2: Okay? Ai slop or gay guy flop.

454
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 3: Gay guy flop?

455
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, military spending or Jupiter ascending.

456
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 3: Jupiter ascending, Jupiter ascending?

457
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 2: Wow? Are you Jupiter ascending? Stand?

458
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 3: I don't know?

459
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 2: Was that the yes? Okay? What so are we doing

460
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 2: our new grading system? Oh? Okay, so durine to fill

461
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:13,400
Speaker 2: you in. For years we rated guests from a scale

462
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 2: of zero to one thousand doves, named after the Lady

463
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 2: Gaga song one thousand Doves. But we recently.

464
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 1: Decided, what do zero one thousand blades of grasses of grass?

465
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 2: Okay, we can do our new ranking.

466
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: Well, then I'm gonna go ahead and say eight hundred

467
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: and sixty two blades of grass.

468
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 2: Wow, good Jo, that's a really high. That's a really

469
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 2: good score.

470
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: I felt like there was a sense of wonder yay.

471
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: I liked the confusion. That felt nice.

472
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 2: You had a charisma and an on camera sort of

473
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 2: charm that I think many people don't.

474
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 3: It's funny because I have such anxiety about being on camera. Really,

475
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 3: the whole point of being a writer, So you can't

476
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 3: don't have to be seen. I don't want to be seen.

477
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 3: You know how people want to be.

478
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: Seen that yeah, I wish I didn't want to see.

479
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: Sometimes you have to remember to put substance behind it.

480
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 2: Totally. No, it's I have to put a little note

481
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 2: in my phone at substance.

482
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: Don't forget substance, have something else.

483
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 2: I have a new idea. Uh oh, okay, get ready.

484
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 2: This is a new concept that I'm inventing.

485
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 3: I'm not ready. I just want to say, okay.

486
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 2: So obviously the dream is for everything you do to

487
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 2: have substance. In today's fast paced media ecosystem, that's not sustainable. Right.

488
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 2: Let's say you're a an LGBTQ plus creator. You know

489
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: you're gonna have some things that are your body of

490
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 2: work and some things that are like Instagram, Reils promo, whatever.

491
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 2: We need to come up with the ratio that's like,

492
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: this is the ratio of like substance the not substance

493
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: that is allowed, and if you pass it in the

494
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: no substance direction, you're thrown off of Instagram.

495
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: Wow, you're at least like you're you have like a

496
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 1: two week band.

497
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, like I think so maybe it's like okay.

498
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: Okay, but substance Okay, I'm trying to think, like in

499
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: the in the comedy sphere, so this would be like

500
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: the thing, a thing that is actually like comedic has

501
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: a point of.

502
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: View rather than catering to the algorithm.

503
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: Not catering algorithm, and not just like a picture. Or

504
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: is it not that I can't tell what is more meaningful?

505
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 2: Honestly, I'm even like, Okay, let's say you're a is

506
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 2: all digital content substanceless to begin with? I think yes.

507
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 1: I think anytime you're looking for fandom in the in

508
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: the social media verse, which is what most people are

509
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: doing now, it's substanceless. I think the only pure social

510
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: media was when it was posting pics for your friends. Yeah,

511
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: the washed out picks and two us, Yes, totally exactly.

512
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 3: But are we being resistant to the state of things?

513
00:25:52,640 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, obviously conservatives are even.

514
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: Were my hat?

515
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 3: I mean to say, we are not like digital natives, right, yeah,

516
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 3: but if you're a fifteen year old, imagine having this conversation. Yeah,

517
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 3: they're like smart luod ites whatever, who are like the

518
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 3: internet is bad for you. But there are other people

519
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: who don't have like a value value system, or they

520
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 3: don't apply value to the Internet because it is what

521
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 3: it is. It's a sky.

522
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 2: Everything. We can't make technologically determinists. Okay, we can't. We

523
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 2: can't say all social media. It can't be based on

524
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: the medium, I guess is what you're saying.

525
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 3: But we can say that if you do two sponsored

526
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 3: posts in a row, I'm actually not going to like

527
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 3: the second because at that point I need something.

528
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 2: If you're doing a sponsored post that's not spreading positivity,

529
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 2: that is doing ad copy.

530
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: If you're being like, please comment on my sponsored post

531
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: so it gets more engagement, so I get I need

532
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 1: ten percent. Yeah, okay, Well, I'm glad that's covered.

533
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 2: Maybe we should as a blanket say just like sixty

534
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: forty sixty and we're still working on defining what and

535
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 2: we're still working but the golden ratio they call it

536
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 2: sixty forty. Yeah, okay, I think that's great. Doreen. Yes,

537
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 2: what is your straight topic and what do you think

538
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 2: is straight about it?

539
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 3: Okay? My straight topic is the toe bag?

540
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: Which one?

541
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 3: Before I say which one?

542
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: Okay?

543
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 3: Okay, I do want to shout out Amelia Petrarca. Oh, yes, Chapera,

544
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 3: she was great, and she last year wrote this. I

545
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 3: think you could call it like a treatise against the

546
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 3: flaccid tote bag.

547
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 2: What I'm scared think about it.

548
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 3: You have a toe bag, it's on your shoulder. It

549
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 3: should have things in it, right, Like the whole point

550
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 3: of a toe bag is like I can't wear like

551
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 3: my real bag right now. I'm also not gonna wear

552
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 3: a backpack because I'm an adult. But I have like

553
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 3: a lot of things with me, you know, like I

554
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 3: have my tampons, I have my wallet, I have a

555
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 3: bottle of water, I have a chopp salad. All this

556
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 3: stuff in my toe bag and it signals life, right.

557
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

558
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 3: So the point of the toe back is not actually,

559
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 3: to me, the surface of the toe back, So it

560
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 3: says it's about the fact that you're like a person

561
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 3: on the go, like you're a little harried, you're you're

562
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 3: a messy, buond person and you just need to throw

563
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 3: everything in the bag, right yeah.

564
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

565
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 3: And so when people carry a particular tote bag from

566
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 3: a particular magazine, per se and there's nothing in it,

567
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 3: to me, I'm like, that's like that that's like the straightness.

568
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: In it right, yeah, because you're just signaling you're not

569
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 2: using it as a bag, You're using it as a

570
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 2: graphic tea exactly. Yeah, yeah, no that yeah, And then

571
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 2: it's you know what it is, the bag is wearing you.

572
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 3: You're not working exactly, and you're supposed to wear a

573
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 3: bag totally.

574
00:28:58,800 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: You know.

575
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, people don't know this anymore, are you guys? eBay people?

576
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: You know? Here's the thing. Thank you for asking first

577
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: of all and giving me the platform to answer. I

578
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 2: want so badly to.

579
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 3: Be an eBay person and everyone can be.

580
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: I My biggest shame is how I've had some successes

581
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: with vintage shopping, but it's not in me, Like it

582
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: stresses me out so much. I will make an amazing

583
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 2: vintage purchase once a year and it will be all

584
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: I talk about for months. As you know, yeah, are

585
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: you an eBay person? It's like the idea that I

586
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: would find a perfect leather jacket on eBay Like that

587
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 2: seems to me more less likely of me becoming president.

588
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: Well it's well, say I order it, it comes to

589
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: my house, I put it on, it doesn't fit.

590
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 2: Then what then I just have this jacket?

591
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: No?

592
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 3: Then I'm not all you basically this is a lifestyle

593
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 3: though like this, the lifestyle of constant ordering and returning.

594
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, is like to me, return I bought when I

595
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 2: all right, take my special. Last week I bought three shirts,

596
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 2: none of which I ended up wearing. They are now

597
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: in a bag and I have to return all three

598
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 2: of them, and I can feel the clock ticking. Honey,

599
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 2: I am not making plans to keep those shirts.

600
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 3: But once you like permit yourself to return things that

601
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 3: you buy online, like everything changes total Because and that

602
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 3: happened for me last Wow, I had this moment where

603
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm actually going to get my money back. Wow,

604
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 3: and I've reclaimed my time, everything, my power. It was amazing.

605
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: That's so amazing.

606
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 3: The reason why I brought it up is because one

607
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 3: thing I love doing. I'm actually not shopping right now

608
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 3: because it's the problem, but I love getting like old

609
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 3: bags on eBay because the thing about a bag is

610
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 3: like you actually really want it to be worn. You

611
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 3: want it to stretch, be elastic, to be kind of weather.

612
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 2: Like purse, like a like a nice like a bag, not.

613
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 3: A r Metz bag. Not yet rebe If this podcast

614
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 3: goes well, yeah, but that's it just relates to what

615
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 3: I'm thinking where I'm like, Okay, you're just like wearing

616
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 3: this toe bag. You're not actually using it because you're

617
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: using it to signal something about like your liberalism and

618
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 3: your politics, and you're forgetting the romance of the bag.

619
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 3: Bags are so romantic, you know, it's like sex a bag.

620
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: Bags are sex.

621
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know you're like ruffling through it. It has

622
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:27,959
Speaker 3: everything you want. You put it down, you pick it up.

623
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 3: That's sex.

624
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 2: Okay, So here's what you're there's something in there.

625
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 3: Froyd did a whole thing about this.

626
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: And do you know what plane bag is. It's someone

627
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: who is like a sex positivity influencer, but you can

628
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: tell they don't have sex. It's someone who makes video

629
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 2: front to camera videos that are like okay, so choosing

630
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 2: the right butt podcast And then and you're like, have

631
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: you ever had sex? Yeah? That's really tough.

632
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Okay, another reason why a bag is sex?

633
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

634
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like the whole thing of like, as a boy,

635
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: you're like I was taught as a child like don't

636
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: look at a woman's bag.

637
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,719
Speaker 3: Yes, it's like how did it make you feel?

638
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 2: Well? Like I want to have sex with that?

639
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 3: Bag.

640
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 2: Well, there is something even when you see a woman

641
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 2: opening the bag and going and you're like.

642
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: Oh, it's like it's really erotic.

643
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 2: It's very erotic. It's also I won't it's almost like breastfeeding.

644
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 3: I was just gonna say that. I was just gonna say.

645
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 2: Because here's the thing with breastfeeding, it's still weird space

646
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: between private and public because of course you want to celebrate,

647
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 2: like you do not ever want to what's the.

648
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 3: Word stigmatizigmatize it, yes, but.

649
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: You're also not going to be like taking a photo

650
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 2: like smile, like taking a photo of a woman. So

651
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 2: it's like this weird midway point where you're like, there

652
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 2: are two there are three options private, public, empowered, and

653
00:32:58,080 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 2: it is empowered.

654
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 3: One of the funnier empowered options I think in the

655
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 3: past like fifteen years is the breastfeeding pod.

656
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

657
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so funny because it's like someone is walking

658
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 3: in with their child and you're just like, yeah, girl,

659
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 3: you're about to go breastfeed. But I also can't see

660
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:20,479
Speaker 3: it exactly.

661
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's totally good.

662
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: That leans more towards shame to me, so like I'm

663
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: going to the bathroom, but for breastfeeding.

664
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 2: Well, it's not shame. It's quiet luxury, quiet luxury. It's

665
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 2: like you see someone wearing a gorgeous look from the

666
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 2: Rows twenty one and you're and if you're a classy person,

667
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 2: you're not going to stop them on the street and

668
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: say is that the Row. You're just gonna sort of

669
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 2: given them up and down and say I see you, Yes, exactly.

670
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: And that's how I feel about breastfeedingastfeed.

671
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 3: You know, I did the Row.

672
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 2: No, it is not as good quality as people say it.

673
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 3: It's not. And the prices that you are paying shocking

674
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 3: down payment prices.

675
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: No.

676
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 2: Literally, you're like, where's Klarna?

677
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: Do I Clarona my eggs? Or do I Karna my shoes?

678
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 3: From the Row? I want to a really fabulous Fincher

679
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 3: store downtown and there was a Row frock shapeless, which

680
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 3: I like, Yeah, I was like, let me try it on.

681
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 3: It was affordable for the Row. And I tried it

682
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 3: on and I looked like I looked like death, Like

683
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 3: I looked like, you know, depictions of death and ramantic death.

684
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 3: I would never say that, No, like you know, death

685
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 3: as like a black triangle, just like like motionless se Yeah, yeah,

686
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 3: it just I don't.

687
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: Know, people pay a lot of money, don't like death.

688
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 3: But maybe I'm just like kind of a basic like

689
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 3: femme girl, Like I do like feeling like the closer,

690
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 3: like you know, demanding that I show off my waist

691
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 3: or whatever, like oh that stuff. I like that stuff.

692
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I find the row is always to me just implied,

693
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: like you just want to spend a lot of money

694
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: on something.

695
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 2: Right, It's sort of like you have a fetish for

696
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 2: spending money literally more so than for a specific.

697
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 3: Type yourself yourself. Yeah, but you're like a good person,

698
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 3: You're a good shopper. Yeah, because you're deciding to spend

699
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 3: three thousand dollars on a sweater as opposed to accruing

700
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 3: a lot of fast fashion, and there's never a third

701
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 3: option that you might just like not spend money on

702
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 3: yourself at all and not be materialist.

703
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: Well, there's also something about the row being quiet luxury,

704
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: where you're like, well, why why why so quiet?

705
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: What are you ashamed of? What do you hide? It?

706
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 2: Totally like soft life?

707
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 3: Can we go there?

708
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 2: Wait?

709
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 3: What soft life? You guys know about stuff?

710
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 2: What's soft life?

711
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 3: I wonder if this is like a racialized thing, but

712
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 3: in the past two years, I kept seeing posts and

713
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 3: essays from people, you like black, like middle class, like

714
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 3: well educated women who are like, I'm not doing a

715
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 3: hard life anymore. I'm going to do soft life. So

716
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 3: soft life means like I'm not going to be I'm

717
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 3: not gonna have political opinions because you don't listen to me.

718
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna go to Miami.

719
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 2: I feel humiliated, first of all, that I've never heard

720
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: about this.

721
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 3: This is so interesting. Maybe there's still a little segregation

722
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 3: in the world. I'm interesting, but yeah, it's like it's

723
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 3: completely taken over. Like some of the most like industrious,

724
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 3: like exciting women I know are now.

725
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 2: Like in Miami.

726
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess it's like black the black

727
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 3: version of like trad wife culture.

728
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 2: Oh but it is also women. Yeah, Is it also men?

729
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 3: No, it's a very singular They probably are, but I

730
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 3: haven't found them. But it's like, singularly it's about like

731
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 3: the overworked black women.

732
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 2: It is a response. It is a response to like

733
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 2: white people having signs that say listen to Black women

734
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 2: being like no, thank you, I'm going to Miami as one.

735
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 3: Don't listen to me, like the ship that I say

736
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 3: sometimes Sure, it's like.

737
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: I'm not, I mean, on this podcast. Yeah, we've always

738
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 2: insulted so many communities.

739
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I have no No, No.

740
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 2: You haven't. I'm just bags. Yeah, I wait, I'm sorry.

741
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 2: Go ahead, I go back to the toe. I want

742
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 2: to go back to tote, even though I'm like, we

743
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 2: have to have you back on to discuss soft life

744
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: because I'm.

745
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 1: Well, it's a like we talked about like sort of

746
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: head in the Sand vibes right away.

747
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 2: So Head in the Sand was last summer. Each summer

748
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 2: we say what summer it is, So there was one

749
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 2: summer that was cliff girl summer. We can't get into it.

750
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: And but last summer was head in the Sand girl summer.

751
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 2: And it was because people were no longer reading the news. Yeah,

752
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: and so that's sort of what soft life is.

753
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 3: Yes, it is an extension of that. It's like not

754
00:37:55,120 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 3: reading the news because I don't know, like if you

755
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 3: think about like Kamala losing for example, Like there was

756
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 3: a response from a lot of people that was like

757
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 3: you didn't listen to us, So we're just gonna like

758
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:15,879
Speaker 3: abandon any of like I don't know, like moral rectitude.

759
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 2: It's like why try if no one is paying attention.

760
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, but or it's not really like if no one

761
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 3: is paying attention, it's just like we're not going to

762
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 3: save you anymore.

763
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, which is you know what

764
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 2: if I suddenly do that even though even though I'm

765
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: not in that, I'm saying, like, you guys are not listening.

766
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: Well, GA, guys kind of arguing that at all times,

767
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: the summer vacations are skipping.

768
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 2: GA guys are skipping the chapter where you are politically

769
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,359
Speaker 2: engaged and want people who listen to you and are

770
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 2: going straight to stop play.

771
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 3: I mean, it's almost that season. We're in the middle

772
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 3: of April is.

773
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 2: Coming.

774
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 3: Wait, what do you What's What's what's Pulia this summer?

775
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm almost scared to even say this on air.

776
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 2: I have heard so I am being pressured to go

777
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 2: to Genoa. What's that Italy?

778
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's new. I haven't heard that.

779
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 2: I think that's going to be the new Pulia.

780
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 3: Okay, are you gonna are you going to submit to

781
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 3: the pressure?

782
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 2: I think so I haven't taken I haven't taken a

783
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 2: vacation that wasn't family oriented in maybe pre pandemic. So

784
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 2: I think this is going to be my big treat

785
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 2: to myself. What's the first word you guys keep saying?

786
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 2: Pulia is a is a big vacation destination that people

787
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 2: go to. Where is it it is in Italy?

788
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 3: Yeah?

789
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 2: Damn.

790
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: It's so awesome when something goes completely over your head

791
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: because it's sort of like, I'm glad I didn't even

792
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: know to want.

793
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 2: Like that's kind of a.

794
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 3: Nice it's very philosophy that you've just been.

795
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,919
Speaker 2: There to not know, don't know, don't want. So it's like, yeah,

796
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 2: desires beautiful, the soft life of desire.

797
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 3: During write that down, let me just get my pen

798
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 3: out of my toe bag that's full of things.

799
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 2: Okay, So I have another thing about sex being bad

800
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 2: about bags being sex Okay, and this is controversial. Think

801
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: about the life cycle of a bag visa v brand new, spink,

802
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: brand new clean versus completely round through, right, there's something

803
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,479
Speaker 2: where it's like, if it's too clean, that's not attractive, yes,

804
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 2: but sorry, if it's too dirty, that's also not attractive.

805
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 2: Part so is mine, honestly, but part of I think

806
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 2: there's something there's always this give and take between virginal

807
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 2: culture and sex positivity, and ultimately we come out somewhere

808
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: in the middle where it's like you have to have

809
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 2: a certain level of sexual experience to be valid. But

810
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 2: then don't go too far because this is still a judo.

811
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 2: We run on Judeo Christian value in this town, in

812
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 2: this fucking city.

813
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, should we start a coffee shop instead

814
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 3: of we run on Duncan Christian values?

815
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 2: Honestly, would do amazing, That would be really great. I

816
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 2: think we we are.

817
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: I don't know how much we're allowed to talk about it,

818
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 1: and it's okay if not, but like the New Yorker tote.

819
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 2: Of it at all, Yeah, like that we were talking

820
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 2: around you were You're being so virginal.

821
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: And it's just like it implies so much. There's like

822
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: a status level to it, and then there's like a

823
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: conversation about like there's a hate towards it because of

824
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: the status level and this thing that like cycles around

825
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: my ahead. Well, I don't know where to stand on it,

826
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: Like I don't know where we where it lands in

827
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: the culture right now.

828
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: I can, I'll say something and then maybe that'll inspire

829
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 2: other opinions. I think one of the reasons why a

830
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 2: New Yorker toade is straight is because it is the

831
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 2: default tote. Like there's something hegemonic about it, regardless of

832
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 2: how you feel about the actual New Yorker magazine. It

833
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 2: is like, think tote, what do you think do you think

834
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 2: in New York or toad? Yeah, there is standard. It

835
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 2: is standard. And I think that is where a lot

836
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 2: of the like because it has become canonized in this way.

837
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 2: That's where the backlash comes from.

838
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 3: Right. It's also we're having a very New York centric.

839
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: Like.

840
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 3: Part of the reason why you even feel strong emotion

841
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 3: when you see someone wearing that tote is because you're

842
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 3: probably seeing them wear it and you know these neighborhoods.

843
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 3: Yes I'm not gonna name them not I've been talking

844
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 3: about dos the neighborhoods please and so the and then

845
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 3: you you are filled with the self loathing mm hmm

846
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 3: because you're like, I'm one of them, Yes, because you're

847
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 3: you're like, I identify that status simple. It's not so much

848
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 3: about the person wearing it. It's about the fact that

849
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 3: you have this knowledge.

850
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's even like there's something if we're talking about

851
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: sort of let's say the park slope, like wealthy.

852
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 3: It's sad it's Sam. That's crazy. I just said we

853
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 3: were not naming neighborhoods.

854
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm calling everyone out today. Enough the Park Slope,

855
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: like wealthy family that's still like liberal and cool.

856
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you like see.

857
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: Them and you're like I want that, Like I'll never

858
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: be able to have that. Yeah, And I'm like I'm

859
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: jealous of it, And that's the New Yorker toad to

860
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: me kind of and.

861
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 3: You don't want to admit to yourself that you're jealous

862
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 3: of it.

863
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, But then it's people. Then then it

864
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 1: becomes also people trying to sort of imposter syndrome, like

865
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: they'll like get it because they're like, well, I can

866
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: have a piece of that lifestyle if I just get

867
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: the toe.

868
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 2: Rare, right, Because there's also the there's the other side

869
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 2: of it, which is like new college graduates moved to

870
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 2: New York City, Yeah, wearing a New Yorker toad and

871
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 2: she's like so excited about her big internship. That's true. Yeah,

872
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 2: that's a sweet one.

873
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: I feel like in my youth I would make fun

874
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,399
Speaker 1: of that one. Yet now I now my haggard old

875
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 1: thank god you read yeah totally. You know, like someone

876
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 1: is paying a subscription.

877
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 2: That's great. Here's what I have to say, Let's see

878
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 2: more New Yorker magazines if you're in New Yorker toats

879
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 2: because I'm on these trains and I'm seeing way more

880
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 2: totes than people reading the magazine.

881
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,479
Speaker 3: And they used to tear that magazine up on the train.

882
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 2: It's true, yeah all the time.

883
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's like the New Yorker magazine no

884
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 3: longer on trains. What is on trains is speakers.

885
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

886
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are so many speakers on the trains.

887
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 2: Speakers on the train.

888
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 3: And I have been taking the train by myself since

889
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 3: I was maybe like ten or eleven years old, and

890
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 3: there was I've seen some stuff. I once saw a

891
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 3: kid get his iPod stolen from him out of his hand.

892
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 3: Oh no, on the two train. I was like fourteen,

893
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:58,919
Speaker 3: coming home from high school that day. And it wasn't

894
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 3: even I don't know if you could call it like

895
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 3: a mugging because there wasn't like really any like deep

896
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 3: violence involved. This guy was just like your puny, I'm

897
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 3: gonna take this, and he.

898
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 2: Just walked off. Sure.

899
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 3: Sure, I feel like I've seen all kinds of violations,

900
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 3: but everyone knew, like there was a social trust that

901
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 3: you wouldn't blast music on the train, and now it's impossible.

902
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 3: You just go. You're like in a like the seven

903
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 3: Circle of Hell train, like car to car, someone's blasting something.

904
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 2: Okay, here's my suggestion for you, Doreen. Obviously you haven't.

905
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 2: You you have access to the New Yorker offices Conde Nast.

906
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 2: You go in there, you get a bunch of New

907
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 2: Yorker magazines. Whenever someone's blasting music, you go up to them.

908
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 2: You say, you have them on the shoulder. You say,

909
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 2: read this instead.

910
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, a street preacher before.

911
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: My job, you say, open to age twenty seven. I

912
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 2: have an amazing piece. I think you're going to absolutely

913
00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 2: love it.

914
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,240
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. I never I don't know. I always

915
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 3: feel I feel like very not implicated when I see

916
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 3: people with New york Er gear.

917
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like that's like between you totally.

918
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 3: And mag Like this is an.

919
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 2: Interesting thing actually, And I think this weirdly circles back

920
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: to over identification with the tote bag brand. It's like,

921
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: in the same way that a toad can be just

922
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,879
Speaker 2: a toad, or it can be your entire personality, your

923
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 2: job at this x y Z. Institution can either define

924
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 2: you to the point where it's like you know in

925
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: your like bio at the parks of food com or

926
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 2: it can just be like a tangential thing that you

927
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,479
Speaker 2: don't think like it's It would be like if Sam

928
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 2: and I were like proud iHeart employee, which we always

929
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 2: right away.

930
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: I know there's something I've always This is an interesting

931
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: point that I haven't really thought about, but I like,

932
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: there are people that make their jobs their whole thing,

933
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: and oh, that's the blank guy. Yes, and then there's

934
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 1: people that like have that job and like almost keep

935
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: it quiet, so it's not their whole thing, right, And

936
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 1: I've always really admired the latter half, but also crave

937
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,760
Speaker 1: the legitimacy of the first hours.

938
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 3: Well, there's something I think we feel that it's cheek. Yeah,

939
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 3: when someone is like, oh, that's my job, as opposed

940
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 3: to like, this is my everything, it's quite luxury.

941
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: It's quiet. We can't get enough of this quiet labor.

942
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 2: It would not be quiet luxury if your handle on

943
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,760
Speaker 2: all platforms was at New York or Dorian, your prophib

944
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 2: picture was in New Yorker Sketch, and your cover photo

945
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 2: was the New Yorker Dandee, could you imagine I would

946
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 2: be like, what a loser?

947
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 3: I changed the sketch though when we first did it.

948
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 2: Of course, of course.

949
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 3: Because I I smile in the world, but not when

950
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 3: I'm doing my job. I'm a serious woman, of course,

951
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 3: and our wonderful illustrator give me a smile, and I

952
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 3: was like absolutely, like I need to be taken seriously,

953
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 3: so I have like a really straight mind, severe face.

954
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 3: I think I look like my cartoon though.

955
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 2: Wait, so did you request for your cartoon to not

956
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 2: have a smile. That's very that's really funny, that's really good. Yeah.

957
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 1: I there's something about I remember, this is very it.

958
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: I feel like it's in writing as well, but in

959
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 1: comedy it was very like early on, when you're just

960
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: a person that sort of does comedy, it's like you're

961
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: trying to prove that you're real, and so there is

962
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: this thing where people are like, I am I have

963
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: been on Comedy Central, right, and that's like your biggest thing,

964
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: and you like post about it constantly and then it

965
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 1: becomes but then you watch that as like a other,

966
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: as like a peer, and you're like, well, that's tasteless.

967
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: Why are they doing it like that, sure, but I

968
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 1: get the urge and I feel it's a funny thing

969
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: to try to balance.

970
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 2: I know. During the Facebook days, a big running joke

971
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 2: was that comedians would have the way that the the

972
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 2: way that the structure of Facebook would work is that you,

973
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 2: they would say works at comedian because do you remember this?

974
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:15,439
Speaker 2: It would be the company self employed comedians I love.

975
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: I used to screenshot though, because they were a bunch

976
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: and sometimes I have like a few things and they

977
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: would always be so self.

978
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 3: Serious comedian bartender.

979
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 2: Yea yeah, best case scenario.

980
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 3: I used to be like a little bit of a

981
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 3: comedy groupie. Really yeah, I've never said that that like

982
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 3: the way it sounds, but it's true.

983
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 2: For what what's what? Which?

984
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 3: In college, I just would I was obsessed with the improvos.

985
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 2: This is the most vulnerable thing.

986
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 3: I don't know why I'm telling you that that's true.

987
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:53,839
Speaker 3: I think because I don't know. There's a link right

988
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 3: between like writing and it's both writing. And I really

989
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 3: admired that they were like willing to like debase themselves.

990
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 2: So can I say even more vulnerable? Are you ready

991
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 2: for this?

992
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:04,760
Speaker 3: Yeah? Crying?

993
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 2: In college I was a spoken word group. No way,

994
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 2: I was obsessed with the spoken word. I was not

995
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 2: part of it, just to be I was going to say.

996
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 2: I knew I did not have the talent within me,

997
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,320
Speaker 2: but I would go to all their shows and I

998
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 2: would like be like legitimate fans of them and like

999
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,399
Speaker 2: befriended them from the shows, and one of them ended

1000
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 2: up becoming a very successful novelist. Oh shout out.

1001
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: So you were fans of the college and properup not

1002
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: like like uh yeah.

1003
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 3: And then a little bit after college I would go

1004
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 3: to you know, like New York City.

1005
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 2: Something Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so interesting.

1006
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 3: I mean I was obviously I was, But I do

1007
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 3: think comedy is evil, Like I just you know what's.

1008
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 2: Crazy is that it like throughout history has been evil.

1009
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 2: It's just like, well, I'm just thinking about the way

1010
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 2: the role that specifically comedians currently have in normalizing every

1011
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 2: evil thing. It's like it's like someone an evil thing

1012
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,919
Speaker 2: will happen and then all the comedians will be like, okay, great,

1013
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 2: so you normalize the sexist part, you normalize the racist part,

1014
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 2: and then let's get together next week and we'll sort

1015
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 2: of figure out. Like it is crazy, and I don't

1016
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 2: know was there a switch that happened or has it

1017
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,760
Speaker 2: always been pandemic? The pandemic made things much worse.

1018
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, this is something that I also wanted to

1019
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 1: bring up earlier, and I think this is a good

1020
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: time for it.

1021
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 2: So we told you about Lizzo's pass.

1022
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:47,240
Speaker 3: Right, I get For some reason, whenever you say that phrase,

1023
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 3: I envision you know, the map like in the beginning

1024
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:54,439
Speaker 3: of like a fantasy. Now you go down Lizzos past.

1025
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 2: That's a reference.

1026
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: It's fully Lord of the Rings code I got it

1027
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: is do writers face Lizzo's pass? Yes?

1028
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:02,919
Speaker 3: You do?

1029
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:03,720
Speaker 2: Yes, they definitely.

1030
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: This was like rejection being like a huge hit right now, Like,

1031
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: is he on Lizzo's past writing?

1032
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1033
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: I think though, but like I think he's on the

1034
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: past current.

1035
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 2: He's on the past. What did Sally Rooney choose? I

1036
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 2: think she chose, well, I know, I don't know. I

1037
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 2: think uh got the mic. I can't, I can't.

1038
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 3: I can't answer that question.

1039
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 2: No, no, we're not. We're not making to answer that question.

1040
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 1: But oh god, okay, can you think of any notable

1041
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: writer that you are allowed to talk about that have.

1042
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 2: Well let's start there. Can you think of any notable writer.

1043
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,439
Speaker 1: You know, can you think of any writer that has

1044
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: gone through Lizo's pass and got in a particular way.

1045
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 2: Do you think Joan Didion chose target or pitchfork?

1046
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,879
Speaker 3: That's okay, Yeah, it's so interesting that you bring Joan

1047
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 3: did he enough. I can't believe Joan Didion can come

1048
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:56,720
Speaker 3: up in a conversation so rare because we're talking about agency. Yeah,

1049
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 3: but I do think sometimes Lizzo's Pass is not something

1050
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 3: that is done by the right.

1051
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: Yes, well, the winds are blowing and the storm is

1052
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 1: brewing and somebody exactly.

1053
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 3: And your ripman winkle when you wake up and all

1054
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,439
Speaker 3: of a sudden you're in like file four.

1055
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1056
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's fascinating with Joan Didion that like Selene

1057
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 3: had a lot to do with that, you know, all

1058
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 3: of a sudden, like.

1059
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:21,919
Speaker 2: It really did.

1060
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, like that ad. She had always been fetishized as

1061
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 3: opposed to read two different things, and that AD just

1062
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,959
Speaker 3: like really accelerated it. I think that the interesting about

1063
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 3: Lizzo's past to me is like you can go back

1064
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 3: and then turn around.

1065
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 2: True, it is a geographic location. You're allowed to travel backwards.

1066
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Like sometimes there are writers who you know they

1067
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 3: put out a book or they do a story, or

1068
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 3: they you know, take on a second job. And I'm like,

1069
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 3: that's so that you could get that apartment, you know,

1070
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 3: And I'm fine with that. I think I think, you know,

1071
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 3: I think selling out is a bit of an outdated structure.

1072
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 3: It doesn't really like make sense with the way that

1073
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 3: labor works in the art industry.

1074
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 2: And especially with the substance ratio and social media.

1075
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 3: I think that like it is possible, it might even

1076
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 3: be like good and generative to kind of like dip

1077
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:20,240
Speaker 3: into target.

1078
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, not target.

1079
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 3: Itself because bad DEI we don't of course, we don't

1080
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 3: top of target. We're costco girls here.

1081
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 2: This is the concept of target.

1082
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 3: Yes, the concept is target. It's useful I think to

1083
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 3: like abandon seriousness and to like, actually, I think, be

1084
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 3: on the level and interact with like, I don't know,

1085
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 3: sort of like basicness of our culture. Obviously, like we

1086
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 3: think it's sacrilegic because we're like writers are supposed to

1087
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 3: be wise, They're supposed to be like above commercialism, above

1088
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 3: all these things. But the dirty secret is like throughout

1089
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 3: much of history, most of them weren't. We just didn't

1090
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 3: have access to the way that they live their lives

1091
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:01,799
Speaker 3: like holistically right. Yeah, and so so Lizzo's past I

1092
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 3: think can be you know, subverted.

1093
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Hearing you talk about Liz's past is amazing.

1094
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,919
Speaker 1: I really feel it's like when a dramatic actor does

1095
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: comedy and you're like, oh my god, I didn't know

1096
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: you could be examined like that. Okay, Wow, I think, Okay,

1097
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 1: I'm this might actually be a difference between writers versus musicians,

1098
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: because I'm trying to examine if musicians.

1099
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 2: If you and go back, okay, who is in music?

1100
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: Because writers, I agree, like especially like movie I think

1101
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: about like people like movie writers will one weird one one.

1102
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 3: Which is accepted. We sort of understand that in order

1103
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:48,839
Speaker 3: to be a good yeah, like screenwriter, you do have

1104
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 3: to prove that you can make commercial.

1105
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. But musicians back. The musician that has gone visited

1106
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 2: Target and then went back to the past.

1107
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 3: Was think about it. Let's think about it.

1108
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: God, this is hard, Okay, Okay, I have one. Okay, Well,

1109
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: this isn't quite right. Okay, but maybe it'll lead us

1110
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 1: in the direction. I kind of think bony Vere because

1111
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:13,280
Speaker 1: I felt it was Kanye Target.

1112
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing that's a larger conversation with Kanye. Yeah,

1113
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 2: but that's the thing. It's like, I think that's what

1114
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 2: you're implying.

1115
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: I think, but I also think that like the second

1116
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 1: album that like won the Grammy and that got like

1117
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 1: this big mainstream thing and it really felt and I

1118
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: think it was in commercials for like Apple, and it

1119
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:33,919
Speaker 1: was like okay, this is like he's big now.

1120
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 2: And then he's in Kanye songs and it.

1121
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 1: Was like okay, Like I personally was like, I'm cool,

1122
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 1: I don't care anymore. And then he kind of went

1123
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 1: back and did like electronic weirder music again, and then

1124
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 1: now he sort of settled into a he can go

1125
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:48,879
Speaker 1: either way.

1126
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 2: Okay. So maybe it's musicians. Okay, it's musicians that also

1127
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 2: work as producers. It's like they're a producer. Chapter of

1128
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 2: their life is target, like they can go do a

1129
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 2: you know, do a do a song.

1130
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 3: Okay, sorry, this is I'm going to common deer right now.

1131
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 3: Please please, Because I've written a lot in my life,

1132
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 3: a lot of is ship that's not true. It is great.

1133
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 3: And the best thing I've ever written was one sentence

1134
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 3: and it was a tweet back when we had Twitter,

1135
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 3: and it was black people loved Tam and Paula because

1136
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 3: they do. They do. You're not in your head, I

1137
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 3: see you. There's something about I like one of my

1138
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 3: favorite I guess like outgrowths of like the racialization of

1139
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 3: pop music is the way that like white pop producers

1140
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 3: end up like ventriloquizing what they think black music sounds,

1141
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 3: like like Max Martin, I think is like a really

1142
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 3: great exact. Yeah, Diplo is like a little he's like

1143
00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 3: on the more evil side of but this idea, yeah

1144
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 3: that like you know, in the late or like the

1145
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 3: twentieth century, like blackness becomes lingua franca, and people in Sweden,

1146
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 3: people in Perth, Australia feel like a proximity to it.

1147
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 3: It's like sound and then they reinterpret it and I

1148
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 3: don't I'm not talking about appropriation. I'm just talking about

1149
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 3: like this kind of process. And Tame and Paula is

1150
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 3: such a like great commercial example of that because it's

1151
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 3: like funk music. Yeah, but it's so easy listening and

1152
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 3: you just can't help but submit to it, and black

1153
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 3: people love love it. It's just such a thing.

1154
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 2: Is Australian? Are they Are they American? I think they are.

1155
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 3: Kevin Parker Australian is Australian.

1156
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay. I once saw them on Halloween and they

1157
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 2: were all dressed like the Spice Girls for Halloween while

1158
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 2: they were on Story. Really it was really special.

1159
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 3: Wow, that's so beautiful. I would have cried.

1160
00:58:58,000 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: Well in the in the spirit of Lis this past word.

1161
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 1: We think Tama Paula is.

1162
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 3: Now TAM and Paula is at TAM and Paula is

1163
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,919
Speaker 3: coming back from targeting. Yeah, I agree, taking a long time.

1164
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 2: It's a long check out, it's a long journey.

1165
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 3: He's forgetting something, goes back.

1166
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 2: To Target. Lady is like tapping him on the shoulder.

1167
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: I mean literally, that's like, that's like he did the

1168
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: Gaga song a few years ago. He's Target.

1169
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 2: Do you think men are afforded more leeway in terms

1170
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 2: of visiting Target than women are? And of course I'm

1171
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 2: thinking of Liz Fair and Jewel. I was women who

1172
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 2: like tried to visit Target and people were like, you

1173
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 2: are that sign love? And I also love the list

1174
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 2: Fair pop record. Yeah yeah, anyway, but it's like when

1175
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 2: they did that, I mean quite literally, Pitchfork gave the

1176
00:59:56,280 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 2: list Fair Amaze zero and then she was black listed. Right.

1177
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 3: I think I think that that was the case for

1178
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 3: like jen X, and now we're like over correcting for it.

1179
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 2: Yes, totally, do you know what I mean? We're like

1180
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 2: that was Pitchfork's target. Well exactly, how Pitchfork again, all

1181
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 2: my love to everyone we know that rants for Pitchfork.

1182
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 2: But Pitchfork being like announcement we're giving all Taylor Swift

1183
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 2: albums ten point zero starting today, You're just like.

1184
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 3: Okay, exactly. And you know there's people talk about poptimism

1185
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 3: and all these things, but fundamentally, it's like music should

1186
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 3: be like a little difficult to listen.

1187
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 2: To, almost like all art.

1188
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 3: You shouldn't be able. It's just like, I don't know,

1189
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 3: even when Cowboy Carter came out last year, people were

1190
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 3: we're saying in the same breath that it was an

1191
01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 3: album that was like questioning this genre, questioning the way

1192
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 3: that it doesn't attend to the black roots of like

1193
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 3: roots music, folk music, all this stuff is doing all

1194
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 3: that stuff, and yet you can play its song and

1195
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 3: target and no one flinches. You know. It's like, how

1196
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 3: can it both be like radical and subversive but also

1197
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 3: just like so like pleasing, Like there's like a solicitous quality.

1198
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 1: It's the question I've never understood. There's like a bit

1199
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 1: because there is like that's like sort of gay credit

1200
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 1: card commercials. It's like people are like, we need this,

1201
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 1: and it's like but we also hate this, And I'm like,

1202
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: which is it?

1203
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 2: Is this good or bad?

1204
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1205
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's a question. Lizzo was just Liza herself was

1206
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 2: just on SNL. She's debuting a new era. Do we

1207
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 2: think Lizzo is going to leave Target?

1208
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 3: I think it's like it's like a Black Mirror episode,

1209
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 3: like you remember the one where they were in a

1210
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 3: snow globe, Like Lizzo thinks she's on Earth, but that's

1211
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 3: that's where she is.

1212
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 1: When I see Lizo's past, I see her like in

1213
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 1: the wall like Han Solo, almost like she is just

1214
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: like she is frozen in Target.

1215
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's something about it that I find with

1216
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 3: her particularly, it's like kind of heartbreaking.

1217
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 2: Of course, she's so talented.

1218
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 3: She's so talented you can't not give her.

1219
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 2: It's so charismatic. I actually love Lesso.

1220
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 3: And there was a moment where it was like that

1221
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 3: was the reaction that you had to it. Yeah, but

1222
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 3: I don't know for someone who seemed like she had

1223
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 3: such a defined sense of self, she like really disintegrated

1224
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 3: once she like reached a service. And I think maybe

1225
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 3: you're seeing that with a Chapel too.

1226
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 2: It's true where it's just.

1227
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 3: Like you actually for you cannot like stabilize in this moment,

1228
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 3: and so then you just like go down the kind

1229
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 3: of like easy route of wearing a T shirt on

1230
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 3: s and that says terrified on it?

1231
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 2: Right? Is that what I didn't see this? Oh that's

1232
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 2: what she did? She did that she did?

1233
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 1: Oh god, Well, I'm praying for Chapel. I hope she

1234
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 1: survives the past. And yeah, I hope she breaks free

1235
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 1: of the wall that she's frozen in. That's right in

1236
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 1: Liso's Pass. Someone I need to work with an artist

1237
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 1: who can sort of mock up what's past. I see

1238
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 1: it so clearly.

1239
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 2: T shirt that says I Survived's like there's two I

1240
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 2: chose pitchfork, I chose target. There's a way. The way

1241
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 2: that lists pass is a geographic location. I need someone

1242
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 2: to three D under it for me.

1243
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, what is it passing over?

1244
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 2: Well, there's there's a big cliff.

1245
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:58,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I think the cliff might honestly be targeted.

1246
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 2: It's like you don't, you've kind of fall Oh and

1247
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:02,919
Speaker 2: they're not careful enough.

1248
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because you have to. It's like a winding

1249
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 1: little pass.

1250
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 2: I really am fascinated by your point that you can

1251
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 2: choose pitchfork but have your audience project target. In a

1252
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 2: Joan Didion esquay, I would almost say, back to the

1253
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 2: Sally Rouding conversation, a version of that happened with her,

1254
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 2: Like I actually think she has not changed her writing,

1255
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:28,160
Speaker 2: like she has always been like this, Who I am

1256
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 2: this when I'm interested in these are my politics. This

1257
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 2: is what I'm interested in my characters doing. Like there's no,

1258
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:34,920
Speaker 2: it's not like she in any way sold out. But

1259
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,440
Speaker 2: then at some point, because she got so popular, people

1260
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 2: were like target target bitch, Oh my god, I get it. Yeah,

1261
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 2: she became the New Yorker tote.

1262
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 3: Wow.

1263
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 1: Whoa.

1264
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 3: Now that's that's a really grotesque image. I'm very interested

1265
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 3: in that. Like Sally Ronnie just hanging around.

1266
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: Because it became status to have the book and to like,

1267
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: you know her, it was like shorthand and it.

1268
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 3: It seemed and continues to seem. You know, she's publishing

1269
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 3: in the Guardian like long essays about you know, like

1270
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 3: why it's essential to be a public intellectual who speaks

1271
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 3: about what's happening in palestime and DNA side. And yet

1272
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 3: her publishing company is like throwing book parties where like

1273
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 3: everything is decked out in the intermezzo, checkboard.

1274
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 2: Don't talk.

1275
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she just seems so uninterested in that, and

1276
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 3: it's incredible. I mean that's kind of the dream you

1277
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:37,920
Speaker 3: just in Ireland with your husband writing these books that

1278
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 3: I think maintain their integrity and people can do whatever,

1279
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 3: you know, like the author's dead, they do whatever they

1280
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 3: want with it stateside, and you're just like to do

1281
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 3: your thing because.

1282
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 2: It's literally like you being It's like you are at

1283
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 2: a protest and the target offices are producing tote bags

1284
01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 2: with your face on them. There is a polgram of you.

1285
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 2: There's a target that is crazy.

1286
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 3: It's really fascinating. And also I want to emphasize too,

1287
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 3: Like you know, there are some debates that people have

1288
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 3: around Sally Rooney where they're like, oh, is she like

1289
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 3: chick lit? Offer like are we actually like misunderstanding the

1290
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 3: genre that she's writing in because we want to like,

1291
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:21,480
Speaker 3: you know, sort of project these like like higher culture

1292
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 3: ideals onto her, which I also think is mistaken because

1293
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 3: you can write about romance and relationships and not have

1294
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 3: to like denigrate it as I don't as chick lit,

1295
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Like, I think that her

1296
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 3: interaction with them like shouldn't be seen through whether or

1297
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 3: not we think her literature is high.

1298
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1299
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so much of a conversation around Rooney is like,

1300
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 3: is this real literature?

1301
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 2: Don't you think? That goes back to your point about

1302
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 2: cowboy Carter and how how can something be both high art,

1303
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 2: radical whatever and also go down so easy?

1304
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 3: Right, there's something of it, and I don't know.

1305
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 2: What the answer is either what if I did? Yeah,

1306
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 2: that would be awesome. Wow, this has been. I'm impressed.

1307
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 2: My brain is on a treadmill.

1308
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: I feel like whenever we start this podcast, I'm like,

1309
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 1: what the hell are we going to talk about?

1310
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 2: To that?

1311
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 3: I was so nervous. I just wanted to say studying

1312
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 3: up last night.

1313
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you get the first ever Straighter Lab Award for excellence. Yeah,

1314
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:32,439
Speaker 2: my excellent and audio storytelling. Yeah, this has been.

1315
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 1: I feel like I've engaged in a higher way than normal.

1316
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. I hope that this episode is sort of like

1317
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 2: the normal people of podcast episode, and that it is

1318
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 2: so sophisticated and intellectual, and yet it goes down soon

1319
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 2: and people are listening to it not on speakers, on

1320
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 2: headphones on the subway, and they're having a debate about

1321
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 2: whether they're having a debate whether about whether we have

1322
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 2: at Lizzo's Paths, have chosen Target or Pitchfork.

1323
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:00,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I love it when you get meta.

1324
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 2: Can't help ourselves sometimes it's true, it's a disease. Should

1325
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 2: we do our final segment? Yeah, I mean it pains

1326
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 2: me to say, but we have to. I think we

1327
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 2: have to.

1328
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 1: So our final segment is called shout Outs, and in

1329
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:17,879
Speaker 1: this segment we pay homage to the grand straight tradition

1330
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:21,639
Speaker 1: of the radio shout out, shouting out to anything, people, places, things,

1331
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 1: ideas that we are enjoying. And I'm gonna I have one.

1332
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:29,439
Speaker 2: It's always we always think of them on the spot. Yeah,

1333
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 2: I currently don't have one.

1334
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I okay, I'm gonna start, Okay, and I'm

1335
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 1: gonna start.

1336
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 2: I'm going to put the bar low.

1337
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 1: Okay, what's up freak closers and perverts around the globe.

1338
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 1: I haven't done this yet, right, I want to give

1339
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 1: a shout out to the book on everybody's lips, that's

1340
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 1: right rejection. Everyone's been talking about it, and I'm already

1341
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:49,559
Speaker 1: late to the game. But I just finished it and

1342
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 1: I was like, damn, everybody was kind of right.

1343
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 2: I was so blown away by how.

1344
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 1: Cynical, uh, internety sort of there was a meanness to

1345
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:06,360
Speaker 1: it that I really really love. It hit all my

1346
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:09,519
Speaker 1: most evil parts of myself, and I said thank you,

1347
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 1: because it really was like, Oh, if you think you're

1348
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 1: pushing for far, you can always push a little further

1349
01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:17,640
Speaker 1: and be a little bit even more. It felt like

1350
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 1: I kept saying, this is a spicy little book, and

1351
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:23,720
Speaker 1: I think everyone should read it.

1352
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 2: If you've spent any.

1353
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 1: Time on the internet, you'll get a kick out of it.

1354
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 1: I love when there's a book du jour that everyone's

1355
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:32,760
Speaker 1: kind of doing at the same time, and I say,

1356
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: sey love, Wow, that.

1357
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 3: Was really great. I could hear the radio horns in

1358
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 3: the background.

1359
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, okay, you know I'm going to go book,

1360
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:48,640
Speaker 2: but I'm going to go show the opposite direction. What's up,

1361
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 2: freaks the losers. I want to give a shout out

1362
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:56,200
Speaker 2: to the audio book of the Facebook whistleblower Sarah Wynn Williams.

1363
01:09:56,320 --> 01:10:01,639
Speaker 2: Careless people. You heard about this, folks. This woman worked

1364
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 2: at Facebook and now has published a book, and it

1365
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 2: is about how Facebook is evil. But what's most amazing

1366
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 2: about it is the inside story she has about Mark

1367
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,200
Speaker 2: Zuckerberg and Cheryl Schamberg, including one story where Cheryl is

1368
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 2: offended that the Japanese Prime Minister doesn't want to take

1369
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 2: a photo holding lean In the book, I sort of

1370
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 2: like started this book being like, Oh, she's gonna tell

1371
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 2: it like it is, and it's gonna be so whistleblowery,

1372
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:26,360
Speaker 2: And in fact it's just a series of funny stories

1373
01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 2: and she has a New Zealand accent, and I'm listening

1374
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 2: to it while you know, cooking dinner or something, and

1375
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:32,600
Speaker 2: it's just so fun to hear this sort of like

1376
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 2: funny Kiwi woman be dragging Mark Zuckerberg and Cheryl Sammer.

1377
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 2: There was just a story about how everyone was letting

1378
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg win at Settlers with Katan, and then she,

1379
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 2: in her telling, was like you're all letting him wan

1380
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 2: and then and then then she's like awkward silence, and

1381
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 2: it's this very sort of like she's adopting this voice

1382
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 2: as though she's completely naive and at every point is

1383
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 2: shocked by everything happening around her. And at first it's great,

1384
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 2: but then you're like, you know, what, go off? We're

1385
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 2: living the naive times and it's about time someone wrote

1386
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 2: a book as though they were twelve years old. That's owazing.

1387
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 2: Shout out to Sarah win Williams. I highly recommend the

1388
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:12,599
Speaker 2: audiobook because she does read it herself, and I cannot

1389
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 2: wait to get back to it tonight while I'm making

1390
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 2: my amazing chicken thighs?

1391
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:18,600
Speaker 3: Are they marinating?

1392
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 2: You met there?

1393
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:28,720
Speaker 3: Okay? What's up, y'all? How you doing? It was nice

1394
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 3: being with you today. I'm gonna give a shout out

1395
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 3: to Todd Haynes. I love Todd Haynes. I feel like

1396
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 3: I'm always like where he is. But for some reason,

1397
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 3: I'd never seen Mildred Peers and I had recently. Okay,

1398
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 3: all right, So you know, Todd Haynes is really famous

1399
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:55,360
Speaker 3: for kind of like reinterpreting the dicta of fifties filmmaking

1400
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 3: the kind of woman's picture and putting it through this

1401
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:02,639
Speaker 3: like different I think, like gay your more intellectual filter.

1402
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 3: And Mildred Pears, which he remade in a nineteen forties film.

1403
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:10,840
Speaker 3: The film had been made in the nineteen forties. He

1404
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 3: did this as like a it's technically a mini series,

1405
01:12:14,200 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 3: but it's really just like a four hour film starring

1406
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:21,479
Speaker 3: Evan rachel Wood and Kate Winsley. Came out like twelve

1407
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:24,559
Speaker 3: years ago. I don't know why I had this blind spot,

1408
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:26,960
Speaker 3: but recently I had like some hours to kill and

1409
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 3: I just sat and watched it. And it is one

1410
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:38,559
Speaker 3: of the most interesting, grotesque, emotionally honest views on motherhood

1411
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,559
Speaker 3: I think I've ever seen. So it's about this woman

1412
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:45,439
Speaker 3: who is separating from her husband in the fifties and

1413
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:49,719
Speaker 3: is entering the workforce, and she does work. She opens

1414
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:51,760
Speaker 3: a restaurant at her daughter, who's very much like a

1415
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:56,400
Speaker 3: she she threw through kind of girl looks down on

1416
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:03,640
Speaker 3: and their relationship just like both blossoms and also like

1417
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:07,800
Speaker 3: hurdles and it ends. I don't want to give give

1418
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:11,800
Speaker 3: away that, but I don't know. It's just kind of

1419
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 3: like we still don't know how to deal with motherhood.

1420
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:17,680
Speaker 3: I think in film in particular, like we don't know

1421
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:21,640
Speaker 3: whether we should choose like the sacrificial mother who just

1422
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 3: like gives up her life for the benefit of the child,

1423
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:26,800
Speaker 3: or the selfish mother, or then you know, the indifferent mother,

1424
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:31,800
Speaker 3: and this it just like blew my mind and so

1425
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:34,040
Speaker 3: sorry I forgot the radio voice.

1426
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll still put silly music behind it.

1427
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:43,200
Speaker 3: Perfect. I just would encourage everyone to watch or rewatch.

1428
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:44,839
Speaker 3: Todd Haynes Mildred Peers.

1429
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:47,639
Speaker 2: I'm convinced. This is how I feel about the film

1430
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:54,760
Speaker 2: kind of Pregnant starring Amy Schumer. No, it has been.

1431
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 2: It has been recommended to me so many times, and

1432
01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 2: I am actually I think in terms of non television work,

1433
01:13:59,880 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 2: I do think I'm a Todd Haynes's completest. But I've

1434
01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 2: never I've never pressed planned military.

1435
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:06,840
Speaker 3: Well, that's what's really interesting about It's kind of like

1436
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:09,240
Speaker 3: in this limbo because it's like Todd Hans is doing HBO.

1437
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 3: You know, there was a lot of reaction to it

1438
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 3: twelve years ago, but for me, I think it might

1439
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:17,520
Speaker 3: be my favorite. Hand WHOA over Safe?

1440
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:20,760
Speaker 1: That's really okay, Well I'm gonna watch this.

1441
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 3: Can you put like a like a flash bombs sound?

1442
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah. Also, don't you feel like Safe is almost

1443
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:30,759
Speaker 2: at the point where people are projecting target onto it.

1444
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 2: It has become too I think popular. It's like everyone's favorite,

1445
01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:37,479
Speaker 2: like everyone's like out of the box favorite movies.

1446
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, have you seen safe?

1447
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 2: Don't you think? Yeah?

1448
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:44,720
Speaker 1: Huh, that's scary when that happens, I know, and yet

1449
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:45,360
Speaker 1: it's so good.

1450
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 2: Well. Oh, this has been an amazing episode of Absolute Heaven.

1451
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for doing the things so much fun.

1452
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:58,800
Speaker 2: Lease go to the New Yorker dot com slash streams.

1453
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:01,439
Speaker 3: Phill Oh is that how it works?

1454
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:05,960
Speaker 2: I don't know. Do you have anything else you want

1455
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:07,839
Speaker 2: to promote other than New Yorker dot com?

1456
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 1: Oh?

1457
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:09,879
Speaker 3: Do I want it? Like peace, love and happiness?

1458
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 2: Yes, peace as well?

1459
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:14,640
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't promote yeah, no, no.

1460
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:16,839
Speaker 2: Do you want to give a shout out to Durian's

1461
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 2: review of you Sexua because where a fellow stands? Yes,

1462
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 2: and twig is someone who chose Pitchfork firmly, firmly hardcore.

1463
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:27,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, she had no trouble dancing along now and no

1464
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:28,559
Speaker 1: one's projecting target.

1465
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 2: No, she can do as many Google pick slabs as

1466
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 2: she wants. Okay, that was amazing. Okay, bye bye podcast

1467
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:41,040
Speaker 2: and now want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for two

1468
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 2: extra episodes a month, discord access, and more, by heading

1469
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:47,839
Speaker 2: to patreon dot com slash Stradia Lab.

1470
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:50,479
Speaker 1: And for all our visual earners, free full length video

1471
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 1: episodes are available on.

1472
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:52,720
Speaker 2: Our YouTube now.

1473
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: Get Back to Work Stradia Lab is a production by

1474
01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 1: Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeart Podcasts.

1475
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:01,040
Speaker 2: Created and hosted by George Severe and Sam Taggart.

1476
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 1: Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Han Soni and Olivia Aguilar.

1477
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 2: Co produced by by Wang, edited.

1478
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:08,200
Speaker 1: And engineered by Adam Avalos.

1479
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:11,519
Speaker 2: Artwork by Michael Fails and Matt Grugg. Theme music by

1480
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:12,000
Speaker 2: Ben Kling