WEBVTT - Episode 4: Iron Man 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:15.876 Pushkin. 0:00:19.436 --> 0:00:23.316 All right, okay, so getting in it's really really low. 0:00:23.556 --> 0:00:24.276 That's what you want to do? 0:00:24.316 --> 0:00:26.756 Is actually a friend of mine owns a Tesla roadster 0:00:27.076 --> 0:00:30.636 black like the Batmobile, kind of slide in. 0:00:30.756 --> 0:00:31.036 Okay. 0:00:35.876 --> 0:00:39.636 Welcome to X Man. The Elon Musk Origin Story, a 0:00:39.716 --> 0:00:43.876 special report on the relationship between science fiction and the 0:00:43.916 --> 0:00:48.796 worldview of Elon Musk. I'm Jill Lapour. Okay, so that 0:00:48.916 --> 0:00:49.516 was the ignition. 0:00:50.076 --> 0:00:53.076 Yeah, all right, you want to go, Yeah, I do. 0:00:53.156 --> 0:00:57.196 Alright, let's go after Elon Musk made a fortune with 0:00:57.316 --> 0:01:01.956 PayPal and launched SpaceX. But long before he bought Twitter, 0:01:02.516 --> 0:01:06.316 when he was famous but not half as geopolitically influential 0:01:06.396 --> 0:01:09.436 as he is now, he was known for Tesla. So 0:01:09.516 --> 0:01:10.796 I decided to go for a ride. 0:01:12.116 --> 0:01:14.876 Well, oh my god, that's good. 0:01:15.556 --> 0:01:18.356 A century ago, in the early days of the automobile, 0:01:18.796 --> 0:01:27.796 petrol powered cars won the battle against electric cars. In 0:01:27.876 --> 0:01:30.716 nineteen ninety six, a few years before Tesla got started, 0:01:31.156 --> 0:01:35.396 GM developed an electric car called the EV one. California 0:01:35.436 --> 0:01:38.756 had just adopted a new zero emissions law. But then, 0:01:38.996 --> 0:01:43.196 after California revised that law, GM seized its fleet of Eve's, 0:01:43.836 --> 0:01:48.516 all of them. Grieving owners held funerals for their cars. 0:01:49.196 --> 0:01:53.756 Some might say that to be here gathered today to mourn. 0:01:53.516 --> 0:01:57.276 The loss of a car would be going too far. 0:01:59.356 --> 0:02:02.476 We are here to say goodbye to more. 0:02:02.276 --> 0:02:02.956 Than a car. 0:02:03.876 --> 0:02:06.036 It is difficult to know what to say at a 0:02:06.076 --> 0:02:06.876 time like this. 0:02:07.596 --> 0:02:10.796 I consulted my Rabbi's manual and there was absolutely nothing 0:02:10.836 --> 0:02:12.316 in it for the burial of the car. 0:02:14.116 --> 0:02:17.036 So when Tesla came up with the roadster, these people 0:02:17.036 --> 0:02:20.676 who'd held those funerals, these people went nuts. The roadster 0:02:20.876 --> 0:02:23.196 was sleek and fast, It had a range of something 0:02:23.236 --> 0:02:26.396 like two hundred miles. True, it cost about one hundred 0:02:26.396 --> 0:02:29.876 thousand dollars, but that was supposedly part of the plan, 0:02:30.356 --> 0:02:33.636 make electric cars sexy, sell a bunch to very rich people, 0:02:33.956 --> 0:02:36.316 and use that money to build a more affordable car. 0:02:36.916 --> 0:02:40.676 Hollywood A listers signed up. As Musk told NPR. 0:02:40.676 --> 0:02:45.716 George Clooney, that's the founders of Google, Laryn Surge, what's 0:02:45.716 --> 0:02:46.196 the name of. 0:02:48.876 --> 0:02:50.716 Flee from Chollipevi's apoort. 0:02:50.436 --> 0:02:53.476 A car Tesla when it launched that first car, Tesla 0:02:53.556 --> 0:02:57.436 was a great story, something genuinely new and not some 0:02:57.596 --> 0:03:02.356 ethereal thing like Facebook, a physical thing, an engineering marvel, 0:03:03.156 --> 0:03:08.596 but Musk was a better story. Young, handsome, dashing Thomas 0:03:08.756 --> 0:03:13.676 Edison meets Henry Ford meets Elvis Presley. He'd already disrupted 0:03:13.676 --> 0:03:17.876 banking and aerospace, now the automobile industry. He wasn't just 0:03:17.916 --> 0:03:21.996 selling cars to celebrities. He had become one or No, 0:03:22.396 --> 0:03:26.036 he was becoming something more. Here's how he talked about himself. 0:03:26.076 --> 0:03:31.316 Then, what I'm good at is, well, I think I'm 0:03:31.316 --> 0:03:36.276 good at inventing solutions to problems. Things seemed fairly obvious 0:03:36.316 --> 0:03:40.116 to me that are clearly not obvious to most people. 0:03:41.516 --> 0:03:44.996 So and I'm not really trying to do it or anything. 0:03:44.996 --> 0:03:47.556 I just seemed like, I don't know. I just I 0:03:47.556 --> 0:03:51.276 can see the truth of things, and others seemed less 0:03:51.276 --> 0:03:51.716 able to do. 0:03:51.756 --> 0:03:55.996 So you can hear it just there in the messianic language. 0:03:56.596 --> 0:03:59.636 When I started this series, I talked about Musk as Batman. 0:04:00.436 --> 0:04:04.396 But long before that, in his Tesla Heyday, Musk had 0:04:04.396 --> 0:04:11.436 begun to think of himself as Tony Stark. This episode, 0:04:11.836 --> 0:04:14.156 Elon Musk as iron Man. 0:04:14.596 --> 0:04:17.676 He's the real life Tony Stark. This guy, please welcome. 0:04:17.716 --> 0:04:23.476 Elon Musk, the Silicon Valley entrepreneur as superhero is an 0:04:23.476 --> 0:04:27.636 interesting historical turn one more way in which Musk's brand 0:04:27.636 --> 0:04:31.756 of capitalism is tied to science fiction. But this episode, 0:04:31.876 --> 0:04:33.676 I want to begin by taking a look at iron 0:04:33.756 --> 0:04:37.556 Man's origins with the US military during the Cold War. 0:04:38.596 --> 0:04:44.276 Who all, what is the most breathtaking, most sensational superhero 0:04:44.596 --> 0:04:46.556 of all? Iron Man? 0:04:47.436 --> 0:04:50.956 Marvel Comics introduced iron Man in nineteen sixty three during 0:04:50.996 --> 0:04:51.836 the Vietnam War. 0:04:52.316 --> 0:04:57.796 Rich handsome known as a glamorous playboy, constantly in the 0:04:57.876 --> 0:05:01.076 company of beautiful a daring women. 0:05:01.756 --> 0:05:03.956 Look, there's Tony Stark. 0:05:04.396 --> 0:05:07.076 He's the dreamiest thing this side of rock. 0:05:06.956 --> 0:05:11.316 Hudson, Yes, and many. Stock has both a sophesta cut 0:05:11.876 --> 0:05:17.116 and a scientist, a millionaire bachelor as much at home 0:05:17.156 --> 0:05:20.316 in a laboratory as in high society. 0:05:21.636 --> 0:05:24.836 Stark travels to Vietnam to test some new tech in 0:05:24.876 --> 0:05:27.876 the jungle, he trips and sets off an explosive and 0:05:27.916 --> 0:05:31.476 wakes up in captivity to a communist. Hated by a 0:05:31.516 --> 0:05:35.516 fellow captive, an elderly physicist, he sets to work building 0:05:35.556 --> 0:05:37.676 a device to save his life. 0:05:37.956 --> 0:05:41.956 I've done extensive work with transistors. I can design them 0:05:41.956 --> 0:05:44.036 in any size to perform any function. 0:05:44.636 --> 0:05:46.956 In the world of iron Man. You take technology on 0:05:47.036 --> 0:05:48.556 faith it works. 0:05:49.036 --> 0:05:54.396 But this man who seems so fortunate, who's envied by millions, 0:05:54.756 --> 0:05:59.956 is so destined to become the most tragic figure on Earth. 0:06:00.796 --> 0:06:03.796 Stanley, who created the character, said later that comic book 0:06:03.796 --> 0:06:07.316 readers hated the Vietnam War, so he created a superhero 0:06:07.316 --> 0:06:10.396 who is a military contractor on a kind of a dare. 0:06:10.716 --> 0:06:12.596 So I said, I'm going to come up with a 0:06:12.716 --> 0:06:17.396 character who represents everything everybody hates that. I'm going to 0:06:17.476 --> 0:06:18.876 shove it down their throats. 0:06:19.556 --> 0:06:23.516 But earlier he told a different story. In nineteen sixty three, 0:06:23.636 --> 0:06:26.156 Lee said, most Americans thought that what was going on 0:06:26.236 --> 0:06:29.556 between North and South Vietnam was a pretty straightforward good 0:06:29.596 --> 0:06:32.636 versus evil story, and would have thought of Tony Stark 0:06:32.676 --> 0:06:33.356 as the good guy. 0:06:33.396 --> 0:06:33.596 Here. 0:06:34.636 --> 0:06:39.396 Still, Tony Stark was a tragic figure, invincible but trapped 0:06:39.396 --> 0:06:42.276 in a machine of his own making. In two thousand 0:06:42.316 --> 0:06:45.516 and eight, Marvel reimagined that tragedy when it brought out 0:06:45.556 --> 0:06:48.516 what would become some of the highest grossing Marvel superhero 0:06:48.556 --> 0:06:52.196 movies of all time, the Iron Man franchise, produced by 0:06:52.196 --> 0:06:54.796 Paramount and starring Robert Downey. 0:06:54.556 --> 0:07:04.156 Junior, Tony Stark, visionary genius, American patriot even from an 0:07:04.156 --> 0:07:07.236 early age. The son of legendary weapons developer Howard Stark, 0:07:07.396 --> 0:07:12.156 quickly stole the spotlight with his brilliant and unique mind. Today, 0:07:12.356 --> 0:07:15.276 Tony Stark has changed the face of the weapons industry 0:07:15.716 --> 0:07:20.116 by ensuring freedom and protecting America and her interests around 0:07:20.116 --> 0:07:20.956 the globe. 0:07:21.276 --> 0:07:23.876 The Ironman films were written by a guy named John Favreau. 0:07:24.716 --> 0:07:28.116 While Favreau was developing the character of Tony Stark, he 0:07:28.196 --> 0:07:29.596 met with Elon Musk. 0:07:29.996 --> 0:07:33.396 At age four, he built his first circuit board, At 0:07:33.476 --> 0:07:37.756 age six, his first engine, and at seventeen he graduated 0:07:37.836 --> 0:07:39.436 summa cum laude from MIT. 0:07:45.156 --> 0:07:48.556 Musk received delivery of the very first Tesla roadster in 0:07:48.556 --> 0:07:53.436 February two thousand and eight. John Favreau bought a Tesla too. 0:07:53.836 --> 0:07:57.316 The first Iron Man movie hit theaters three months later, 0:07:57.996 --> 0:08:00.796 Ironman in the Tesla rollout It was like a double feature. 0:08:01.276 --> 0:08:03.796 Boy Wonder grows up to save the world by building 0:08:03.796 --> 0:08:06.236 new machines and revels in his own celebrity. 0:08:07.036 --> 0:08:10.196 If I take a picture with you, yes, it's very cool. 0:08:11.956 --> 0:08:15.156 This too, seems to come from Musk's backstory. Back in 0:08:15.236 --> 0:08:18.076 nineteen ninety nine, after Musk made his first millions from 0:08:18.236 --> 0:08:21.236 x dot com and PayPal. He was already keen to 0:08:21.276 --> 0:08:22.156 become a celebrity. 0:08:23.196 --> 0:08:25.516 I'd like to only cover of Rolling Stunt better be cool. 0:08:27.516 --> 0:08:30.436 After Ironman came out, Musk was on the cover of 0:08:30.516 --> 0:08:34.836 Rolling Stone. The headline read Elon Musk aka Tony Stark 0:08:35.036 --> 0:08:39.116 wants to save the world. Musk and Stark even look alike. 0:08:39.196 --> 0:08:42.516 Black jeans, black T shirt, maybe a blazer, same haircut, 0:08:42.836 --> 0:08:46.636 a little stubble. In the movie Reboot, Stark Industries is 0:08:46.716 --> 0:08:50.396 manufacturing weapons to be used not fighting communists in Vietnam, 0:08:50.836 --> 0:08:55.556 but fighting terrorists in Afghanistan. Tony Stark is super flashy. 0:08:56.396 --> 0:08:57.836 Tell you what, throw a. 0:08:57.796 --> 0:08:59.036 Little hot rod red in there. 0:08:59.236 --> 0:09:01.116 Yes, though, should help you keep love profile. 0:09:02.556 --> 0:09:06.556 If Elon Musk influenced Tony Stark, pretty soon, Tony Stark 0:09:06.916 --> 0:09:10.876 seems to have begun to influence Elon Musk before iron Man. 0:09:10.996 --> 0:09:13.156 Musk and Interviews was modest. 0:09:13.556 --> 0:09:15.716 The things that worry me are we going to make 0:09:15.756 --> 0:09:19.276 a mistake? Our own foolishness, our own errors can hurt us. 0:09:19.756 --> 0:09:22.316 There's a reason why there's an adiomatic expression about rocket 0:09:22.316 --> 0:09:25.076 science being hard. It really is really hard. 0:09:25.476 --> 0:09:27.956 If you are not a Musketeer. If you've always scratched 0:09:27.956 --> 0:09:30.516 your head at what people could possibly find appealing about 0:09:30.556 --> 0:09:34.156 Elon Musk. Listen to some of these early interviews. He's 0:09:34.196 --> 0:09:38.676 a smart, fascinating person with interesting, if grandiose ideas. 0:09:39.076 --> 0:09:40.996 Well. I think what I'd like to do is help 0:09:41.036 --> 0:09:44.076 solve some important problems. So I think, in a small way, 0:09:45.036 --> 0:09:48.716 helped build the Internet. And then with respect to the 0:09:48.756 --> 0:09:52.036 global warning problem, that the transition away from oil and 0:09:52.076 --> 0:09:55.196 other hydrocobins to something which is clean and sustainable, I 0:09:55.236 --> 0:09:57.996 hope to have an impact there. And then with respect 0:09:57.996 --> 0:10:00.996 to space, I hope to have an impact in helping 0:10:01.436 --> 0:10:03.436 make humanity a multiplanet species. 0:10:04.036 --> 0:10:07.636 But after Iron Man, Elon Musk seemed to become more 0:10:07.716 --> 0:10:12.156 like Tony Stark, flashier brasher. In twenty ten, in the 0:10:12.156 --> 0:10:15.636 second Iron Man movie, he had a cameo as himself. 0:10:15.396 --> 0:10:18.036 Mister Musk, how are you? 0:10:18.836 --> 0:10:20.276 Those Merlin ewes are fantastic? 0:10:20.436 --> 0:10:20.716 Thank you? 0:10:20.796 --> 0:10:22.276 Yeah, good idea for electric jet? 0:10:22.596 --> 0:10:24.356 You do, then we'll make it work. 0:10:25.556 --> 0:10:29.716 Elon Musk became a character in the Marvel universe and 0:10:29.836 --> 0:10:33.236 on the celebrity circuit. It seems sometimes as if Musk 0:10:33.356 --> 0:10:36.396 was resisting this role. For instance, in an appearance on 0:10:36.436 --> 0:10:38.756 The Colbert Report, on Comedy Central. 0:10:38.996 --> 0:10:41.236 People have called you the real Tony Stark. 0:10:41.756 --> 0:10:43.396 You're trying to do good things. 0:10:43.156 --> 0:10:46.436 And you're a billionaire. I mean, yeah, that seems a 0:10:46.476 --> 0:10:49.196 little bit like either superhero or super villain, you have 0:10:49.236 --> 0:10:51.756 to choose one. 0:10:52.356 --> 0:10:53.796 Are trying to do useful things. 0:10:55.276 --> 0:10:58.276 After a while, though, he settled into the role. Okay, 0:10:58.356 --> 0:10:59.396 I am iron Man. 0:10:59.716 --> 0:11:02.596 But eventually you can transform Mars into an earth like planet. 0:11:02.876 --> 0:11:03.996 How would you do that? 0:11:04.956 --> 0:11:07.996 You'd warm it up, drop the nuclear weapons over the polls. 0:11:09.716 --> 0:11:10.756 You're a super villain. 0:11:12.476 --> 0:11:12.676 Yeah. 0:11:13.316 --> 0:11:15.716 Still, I think there's another way to look at this transformation. 0:11:16.516 --> 0:11:21.036 Maybe Elon Musk becoming Tony Stark had been Tesla's plan 0:11:21.396 --> 0:11:27.556 all along. Science fiction as a business strategy, you have 0:11:27.636 --> 0:11:30.636 to drive it. I'm not really a car person. I'm 0:11:30.676 --> 0:11:34.596 more of a bicycle persons, foot on the brake and 0:11:34.676 --> 0:11:37.676 push d Okay, But when I went for a ride 0:11:37.716 --> 0:11:40.836 in my friend's roadster, I'll admit I was super excited 0:11:40.836 --> 0:11:41.916 to take a turn at the wheel. 0:11:42.116 --> 0:11:44.996 So low. Yeah, literally feels like you're on it is. 0:11:46.316 --> 0:11:48.556 Yeah, Well, did you write go cards as a kid. Yes, 0:11:48.916 --> 0:11:50.116 it's like a riding a go card. 0:11:51.276 --> 0:11:51.436 Yeah. 0:11:51.596 --> 0:11:55.316 I think I don't really really want God. 0:11:54.996 --> 0:11:59.796 Yeah, driving the roadster was a blast. But I wanted 0:11:59.796 --> 0:12:02.476 to learn more about Tesla's history, so I called up 0:12:02.596 --> 0:12:06.356 Ed Niedermeier, a long time auto industry analyst and author 0:12:06.396 --> 0:12:09.956 of Ludacrous, The Unvarnished Story of Tesla Motors. 0:12:10.156 --> 0:12:12.516 I think a lot of the very earliest investment in 0:12:12.596 --> 0:12:15.156 Tesla was not really an investment in Tesla. It was 0:12:15.196 --> 0:12:16.916 an investment in Elon Musk. 0:12:17.356 --> 0:12:20.636 Musk didn't start the company. The earliest news stories about 0:12:20.636 --> 0:12:22.916 Tesla didn't even mention him or else. They talked about 0:12:22.956 --> 0:12:26.556 him only as an early investor. Musk seems to have 0:12:26.596 --> 0:12:29.756 said about making sure stories about Tesla were stories about him. 0:12:31.036 --> 0:12:33.756 In two thousand and six, on the Tesla website, he 0:12:33.836 --> 0:12:38.916 posted the Secret Tesla Motors master Plan, a clever manifesto 0:12:39.076 --> 0:12:43.156 that explained the company's strategy build sports car, use that 0:12:43.276 --> 0:12:45.876 money to build an affordable car, Use that money to 0:12:45.916 --> 0:12:49.436 build an even more affordable car. While doing above, also 0:12:49.516 --> 0:12:53.596 provide zero emissions electric power generation options. But it was 0:12:53.636 --> 0:12:56.516 also a very canny bit of self puffery. Call it 0:12:56.796 --> 0:13:00.596 the secret Elon Musk master Plan. He introduced himself this way. 0:13:01.076 --> 0:13:04.556 My day job is running a space transportation company called SpaceX, 0:13:04.636 --> 0:13:06.516 but on the side, I am the chairman of Tesla 0:13:06.596 --> 0:13:11.396 Motors and and eight. When both Tesla and iron Man 0:13:11.476 --> 0:13:14.516 made their debuts, Musk left the conventional mold of the 0:13:14.556 --> 0:13:20.716 Silicon Valley entrepreneur behind. He moved to Los Angeles, which 0:13:20.756 --> 0:13:23.596 is also where Tony Stark lives. In two thousand and nine, 0:13:23.636 --> 0:13:26.356 one of the guys who started Tesla sued Musk for, 0:13:26.516 --> 0:13:29.796 among other things, slander and libel. He said that Musk 0:13:29.916 --> 0:13:32.996 set out to rewrite history by claiming he'd founded or 0:13:33.036 --> 0:13:36.156 created the company. The suit was later settled out of 0:13:36.236 --> 0:13:40.076 court in a resolution that acknowledged five co founders of Tesla, 0:13:40.476 --> 0:13:45.956 including Musk. Meanwhile, though Musk's pr stunts generated just the 0:13:45.996 --> 0:13:47.356 buzz the company needed. 0:13:48.116 --> 0:13:52.036 A big part of Silicon Valley is not just making money. 0:13:52.196 --> 0:13:54.676 Another big part of it is the idea of changing 0:13:54.676 --> 0:13:58.716 the world and making things cool. The reality is that 0:13:58.916 --> 0:14:01.636 the reason Tesla is here today is because Elon Musk 0:14:01.716 --> 0:14:04.436 is a remarkable storyteller. 0:14:05.036 --> 0:14:07.676 In some ways, what Musk was doing. A man becoming 0:14:07.676 --> 0:14:11.436 a brand is an old game. Colonel Sanders is Kentucky 0:14:11.476 --> 0:14:14.236 Fried Chicken, and then there's this guy Trump. 0:14:14.356 --> 0:14:16.996 Steaks are the world's greatest steaks, and I mean that 0:14:17.156 --> 0:14:18.636 in every sense of the word. 0:14:19.116 --> 0:14:23.276 But Musk did something different. Musk as Tesla was irreverent, 0:14:23.396 --> 0:14:27.756 and he was witty, ironic, whip smart. The cheekiness of 0:14:27.876 --> 0:14:31.036 Musk's online persona was new then, even if this voice 0:14:31.076 --> 0:14:35.436 has since become ubiquitous online. Tesco's sassy Twitter personality, say, 0:14:36.036 --> 0:14:39.156 Musk was sassy and messianic all at once. Not the 0:14:39.236 --> 0:14:42.436 greatest steak in the world, but the steak that will 0:14:42.476 --> 0:14:46.076 save the world. Niedermeyer has gotten a lot of harassment 0:14:46.196 --> 0:14:47.356 for writing about Tesla. 0:14:47.716 --> 0:14:51.276 I've been labeled by the fans and the company itself 0:14:51.436 --> 0:14:54.876 as a hater or you know, someone with potentially nefarious 0:14:55.036 --> 0:14:58.116 motivations for writing about Tesla the way that I do. 0:14:58.516 --> 0:15:01.476 The reality is is I wanted the book to capture 0:15:01.756 --> 0:15:05.756 what I saw as the complexity underneath this very polarized 0:15:05.796 --> 0:15:08.876 discourse about it online. And I think that, you know, 0:15:08.916 --> 0:15:11.796 a a lot of that polarization has been a conscious strategy. 0:15:12.236 --> 0:15:17.716 It's absolutely not a coincidence that this very polarized culture 0:15:17.796 --> 0:15:20.236 has sprouted up around Tesla, and that the fan culture, 0:15:20.436 --> 0:15:22.196 you know, people call it a cult. I think that 0:15:22.316 --> 0:15:25.076 Musk knows that if you can force people to either 0:15:25.676 --> 0:15:29.116 love him and trust everything he says implicitly, or hate 0:15:29.196 --> 0:15:31.636 him and think he's a con man. More people will 0:15:31.676 --> 0:15:36.476 break his way, and so polarization is a strategic advantage 0:15:36.516 --> 0:15:37.356 to him. 0:15:37.676 --> 0:15:40.556 Long before Musk bought Twitter, he seemed to be tweeting 0:15:40.716 --> 0:15:45.636 all the time, getting into spats, cultivating a following, iron 0:15:45.676 --> 0:15:49.476 manning his millions of followers. Began to gang up on 0:15:49.516 --> 0:15:54.636 his critics, especially women. Why did he need fans? Why 0:15:54.676 --> 0:15:59.236 did he need to be so online? Ed Niedermeyer has 0:15:59.276 --> 0:15:59.756 a theory. 0:16:00.156 --> 0:16:05.996 Musk's fans need him to promise the impossible, and Musk 0:16:06.476 --> 0:16:10.236 needs them to give him adulation even if he doesn't 0:16:10.276 --> 0:16:15.076 actually deliver on the impossible. He needs them to tend 0:16:15.476 --> 0:16:18.596 and nurture and grow again. What I think, ultimately is 0:16:18.636 --> 0:16:21.556 the most important thing about Tesla, which is the narrative 0:16:21.596 --> 0:16:22.396 in the image. 0:16:22.796 --> 0:16:25.556 For Niedermeier, this relationship is a consequence of the sort 0:16:25.596 --> 0:16:29.716 of speculative capitalism that involves more speculation than capital. 0:16:29.996 --> 0:16:34.436 It's a natural outgrowth of the venture capital culture of 0:16:34.796 --> 0:16:37.356 betting on the jockey and not the horse. You know, 0:16:37.396 --> 0:16:40.756 for a venture capital investor, you don't always have to 0:16:40.756 --> 0:16:44.836 build a really sustainably profitable business. What you have to 0:16:44.876 --> 0:16:48.276 do is make sure that at some point down the road, 0:16:48.556 --> 0:16:51.196 you can pass your investment off to someone who thinks 0:16:51.196 --> 0:16:52.236 it's worth a lot of money. 0:16:52.716 --> 0:16:55.396 Tesla almost went bankrupt in two thousand and eight, the 0:16:55.476 --> 0:16:58.156 year iron Man came out. In two thousand and nine, 0:16:58.196 --> 0:17:00.476 it received a four hundred and sixty five million dollar 0:17:00.556 --> 0:17:03.556 loan from the US government. It raised two hundred and 0:17:03.596 --> 0:17:06.476 twenty six million at its IPO in twenty ten, and 0:17:06.516 --> 0:17:10.236 in twenty thirteen paid back its government loan ten years early. 0:17:10.956 --> 0:17:14.196 In twenty twenty, it had its first profitable year, and 0:17:14.276 --> 0:17:18.596 those profits have continued. But despite the company's incredible success, 0:17:18.916 --> 0:17:22.716 in twenty twenty four, profits seemed to have slumped. There 0:17:22.756 --> 0:17:25.756 are no guarantees in the auto industry, and for Kniedermeyer, 0:17:25.916 --> 0:17:29.356 the story of Tesla, which is one of engineering virtuosity 0:17:29.676 --> 0:17:34.276 and against the odd success, is also a story of precarity. 0:17:35.116 --> 0:17:37.276 For Tesla and for a musk. 0:17:37.556 --> 0:17:42.156 His position has always been incredibly precarious. And it's because fundamentally, 0:17:42.836 --> 0:17:45.036 you know, a lot of why he's there is not 0:17:45.076 --> 0:17:47.876 just the narrative, but also it's his risk tolerance is 0:17:47.876 --> 0:17:51.036 an incredibly risk tolerant person. And you can look at 0:17:51.076 --> 0:17:53.596 a lot of different decisions the companies made and see that, 0:17:54.076 --> 0:17:57.556 and you know, with risk comes roared, but risk is 0:17:57.596 --> 0:18:05.236 also risky. 0:18:02.676 --> 0:18:05.396 As far as risk goes. The striking thing about Tesla 0:18:05.476 --> 0:18:08.676 to me was how for a long time Musk described 0:18:08.676 --> 0:18:11.396 it as a company out to save the planet from 0:18:11.476 --> 0:18:16.516 existential risk by a Tesla avert human extinction. In twenty 0:18:16.556 --> 0:18:19.436 twenty one, on Earth Day, President Biden was at the 0:18:19.436 --> 0:18:21.476 White House charing a sum out on how to avert 0:18:21.476 --> 0:18:24.276 climate disaster. Well, Elon Musk was at the launch of 0:18:24.316 --> 0:18:28.276 a SpaceX rocket carrying NASA astronauts to the International Space Station. 0:18:29.076 --> 0:18:32.476 The astronauts drove to the launch site in Tesla's that 0:18:32.596 --> 0:18:37.316 each have their own suv with license plates that read Reduce, recycle, 0:18:37.716 --> 0:18:42.316 and Reuse. A key story for Musk as a brand 0:18:42.396 --> 0:18:44.956 for years was that he was saving the planet by 0:18:44.996 --> 0:18:46.356 fighting climate change. 0:18:46.796 --> 0:18:51.236 But was he Elon Musk is a really difficult one 0:18:51.276 --> 0:18:55.236 to parse. He's been very open and saying that colonizing 0:18:55.556 --> 0:18:59.956 space is a sort of a survival strategy, which I 0:18:59.996 --> 0:19:03.356 think is a thought that has a weird amount of 0:19:03.396 --> 0:19:05.476 currency out there in the world. And when you think 0:19:05.516 --> 0:19:08.796 about it, you know, in my view, just makes no sense. 0:19:08.836 --> 0:19:09.596 What's soever. 0:19:10.276 --> 0:19:12.516 Elizabeth Colbert is a New york Er staff writer who 0:19:12.516 --> 0:19:15.756 won Appel Surprize for her book The Sixth Extinction. 0:19:16.316 --> 0:19:19.316 There are a lot of these tech billionaires who are 0:19:19.356 --> 0:19:22.196 interested in SPAZ obviously, as you know, and who also 0:19:22.236 --> 0:19:24.996 see it as a big business, and it's hard to 0:19:25.036 --> 0:19:29.476 pull that apart too. How much of this space exploration 0:19:30.156 --> 0:19:33.276 hype I'm going to call it is on behalf of 0:19:33.356 --> 0:19:36.796 potentially very profitable businesses, and how much of it is 0:19:36.876 --> 0:19:41.516 really this kind of sci fi escape from Earth fantasy, 0:19:41.756 --> 0:19:42.876 I really don't know. 0:19:43.956 --> 0:19:45.516 So then why do you call it hype? 0:19:46.116 --> 0:19:49.276 Well, I mean, Elon Musk is constantly telling us, you know, 0:19:49.356 --> 0:19:52.956 when we're going to colonize Mars. But if you ask 0:19:53.196 --> 0:19:58.596 any person seriously involved in space exploration, are we colonizing 0:19:58.636 --> 0:20:03.956 Mars the way Elon Musk is constantly proclaiming that we will, 0:20:03.996 --> 0:20:07.596 and within a very short time frame they will say 0:20:07.636 --> 0:20:10.236 absolutely not. There's absolute no way that's happening. 0:20:11.276 --> 0:20:13.916 So then there's this other line of thought that I 0:20:13.996 --> 0:20:18.596 confess myself totally perplexed by, which comes from the people 0:20:18.596 --> 0:20:25.156 who talk about human extinction scenarios and their calculation is sure, 0:20:25.196 --> 0:20:29.676 they're suffering here on Earth, but if we don't go 0:20:29.716 --> 0:20:33.876 to other planets, then humans will become extinct when our 0:20:33.916 --> 0:20:39.596 planet dies. And so against your global suffering of people 0:20:40.116 --> 0:20:45.436 enduring poverty and disease, we count the untold numbers of 0:20:45.556 --> 0:20:49.796 our human descendants whose human potential will be lost if 0:20:49.836 --> 0:20:53.916 we don't go. Like it's almost a kind of extraterrestrial economics. 0:20:54.396 --> 0:20:57.796 Have you encountered that existential risk argument? 0:20:58.676 --> 0:21:01.716 Every species that we have in the fossil record eventually 0:21:02.196 --> 0:21:05.236 does go extinct. I'm not really predicting, you know, human 0:21:05.276 --> 0:21:08.036 extinction here, but if you look at the record, it's 0:21:08.076 --> 0:21:11.516 pretty much one hundred percent, you know, over time. So 0:21:11.596 --> 0:21:15.076 the idea that humans Homo sapiens are going to be 0:21:15.156 --> 0:21:17.756 around for the end of the planet Earth as a 0:21:17.796 --> 0:21:23.396 habitable planet, that's so crazily at odds with As I say, 0:21:23.396 --> 0:21:26.036 what we know about the history of life. So embedded 0:21:26.076 --> 0:21:29.996 in that is this notion of humans as completely separate, 0:21:30.076 --> 0:21:36.956 completely divorced from evolutionary history, and facing this shining future 0:21:36.996 --> 0:21:42.236 on other planets. And that is a really interesting idea. 0:21:42.876 --> 0:21:45.276 It's not one that I find very plausible. 0:21:45.716 --> 0:21:48.196 I'd called Colbert to ask her about Tesla, but we 0:21:48.276 --> 0:21:50.716 ended up talking a lot about SpaceX, since it can 0:21:50.756 --> 0:21:53.556 be difficult to pull these two visions of the future apart. 0:21:54.596 --> 0:21:57.836 What struck me most talking with Colbert were her observations 0:21:57.836 --> 0:22:02.156 about the internal contradictions of Muscism. In twenty twenty one, 0:22:02.556 --> 0:22:05.676 Musk announced that Tesla would accept bitcoin from people to 0:22:05.716 --> 0:22:08.876 pay for their Teslas, and the Tesla itself had purchased 0:22:08.916 --> 0:22:12.316 one point five billion dollars worth of bitcoin. The price 0:22:12.356 --> 0:22:16.236 of bitcoin jumped. Musk has been an incredibly avid proponent 0:22:16.276 --> 0:22:17.476 of cryptocurrencies. 0:22:17.716 --> 0:22:24.756 Bigcoin is a terribly energy intensive cryptocurrency. Bitcoin mining nowadays 0:22:24.916 --> 0:22:30.356 is using up roughly one hundred and thirty terarowat hours 0:22:30.396 --> 0:22:36.436 of electricity per year, and that's roughly the energy consumption 0:22:36.716 --> 0:22:41.596 of a country like Sweden. So the internal inconsistencies here, 0:22:41.836 --> 0:22:45.516 I think prevent him from being a particularly good spokesman 0:22:46.076 --> 0:22:47.516 for environmental causes. 0:22:47.916 --> 0:22:50.476 In twenty twenty one, Colbert published a piece in The 0:22:50.516 --> 0:22:55.436 New Yorker about Tesla's bitcoin polluting. Days after it was published, 0:22:55.556 --> 0:22:58.596 Musk announced that he'd changed his mind. You could no 0:22:58.636 --> 0:23:02.156 longer buy a Tesla with bitcoin. Still, a lot of 0:23:02.196 --> 0:23:05.196 commentators pointed out that there really was no excuse for 0:23:05.316 --> 0:23:08.636 Musk's decision to accept bitcoin in the first place. How 0:23:08.636 --> 0:23:11.796 could he not have known that bitcoin is mostly mined 0:23:11.916 --> 0:23:15.956 in China and mostly on servers fueled by coal. A 0:23:15.956 --> 0:23:19.356 writer for The Washington Post, pointing out how well known 0:23:19.396 --> 0:23:23.436 it is that bitcoin is practically designed to waste power, 0:23:23.876 --> 0:23:28.196 asked had Musk been on a multi year newsfast in 0:23:28.236 --> 0:23:33.116 any case, the essential tenet of Muscism remains every problem 0:23:33.276 --> 0:23:36.516 can be solved with technology. It's the reigning philosophy of 0:23:36.556 --> 0:23:39.716 Iron Man, too, the motto of Stark Industries. 0:23:40.396 --> 0:23:45.556 Everything is achievable through technology, better living, robust health. 0:23:46.436 --> 0:23:50.316 Everything can also be wrecked through technology. Elizabeth Culbert's book 0:23:50.596 --> 0:23:54.116 Under a White Sky asks whether we have engineered ourselves 0:23:54.196 --> 0:23:57.876 so deeply into so many problems, especially climate change, that 0:23:57.956 --> 0:24:00.036 at this point the only way forward is to try 0:24:00.036 --> 0:24:04.596