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Speaker 1: On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women

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Speaker 1: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy zeph and best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Dinner, We're going on tour. That was supposed to be

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Speaker 2: the intro to the Star Wars theme song. Did you

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Speaker 2: get that? Oh it sounded like I was going Donna, Okay,

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Speaker 2: Jamie and Caitlin. Here, we're going on tour and we're

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Speaker 2: not going on tour just anywhere. We're going on tour

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Speaker 2: in the Midwest and soon. Why did I make the

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Speaker 2: Star Wars noise? Well, it's because we're covering the Star

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Speaker 2: Wars prequels. If you haven't seen them, we're gonna just

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Speaker 2: cover all three at once. You know it's gonna be fine.

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Speaker 2: If you have seen them, you're gonna be so mad

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Speaker 2: at us. There's been so much talk about the prequels

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Speaker 2: over the years, often on podcasts we really like, often

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Speaker 2: by writers we really like, but never from an intersectional

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Speaker 2: feminist perspective. And so we're going on this tour to

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Speaker 2: quickly realize why that is so true.

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Speaker 3: And also some people love these movies. I know, I

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Speaker 3: don't quite get it, but we'll explore why. At the shows.

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Speaker 2: They're so soapy. I kind of like it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can see us discuss all three prequels

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Speaker 3: in one show, in fabulous outfits, in wonderful coseplay. You

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Speaker 3: don't want to miss this, among many other things that

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Speaker 3: you will see because we pull out all the stops.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: For our live shows. Oh, we's embarrassing.

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Speaker 4: What we do.

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Speaker 3: We do fanfic, we do. I edit little videos that

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Speaker 3: I insist on screening. We do trivia.

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Speaker 2: I usually do some piece of performance art that no

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Speaker 2: one asked for.

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Speaker 3: It's a spectacle. Let me tell you, it's all happening.

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Speaker 3: We will be doing all of that and more at

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Speaker 3: the following cities. We will be in Indianapolis for Let's

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Speaker 3: Fest on Saturday, August thirtieth for a matinee show, and

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Speaker 3: then Jamie, you have a solo show that evening that

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Speaker 3: can't be missed.

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Speaker 2: Also at the Fountain Square Theater called Jamie Loftus and

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Speaker 2: her pet Rock Solve the World's Problems, in which that

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Speaker 2: will happen.

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Speaker 3: I can't wait.

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Speaker 2: Then the next day, the very next day, we are

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Speaker 2: going to Chicago, you asked, We listened. We will be

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Speaker 2: at the Den Theater on August thirty. First, that show

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Speaker 2: is going to start around seven, seven to fifteen pm.

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Speaker 2: It's an evening show, a sexy little evening show. We're

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Speaker 2: so excited to go to Chicago and the Den Theater

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Speaker 2: is so beautiful, so Chicagoans do not miss it.

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Speaker 3: And then then we will be in Madison, Wisconsin on Thursday,

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Speaker 3: September fourth. I believe that's a seven thirty show and oh,

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Speaker 3: we're so excited to be in Madison.

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Speaker 2: And then finally we will be ending the tour in Minneapolis,

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Speaker 2: Minnesota at the Dudley Riggs Theater on Sunday, September seventh.

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Speaker 2: That is another evening show. It starts at seven o'clock

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Speaker 2: and that is where we're ending our grand tour of

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Speaker 2: the Midwest. So if you have been one of the

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Speaker 2: many people asking us to come to your town for

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Speaker 2: the last ten years we're doing it, we would love

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Speaker 2: to see you. The shows are super fun. As we've said,

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Speaker 2: if you're a Matron, specifically, if you're a member of

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Speaker 2: our Patroon aka Matreon, you get a free little gift

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Speaker 2: at the merch table when you come to say hi

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Speaker 2: after the show. It's a blast. It's going to be

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Speaker 2: a super good time. We love Cienya. You can get

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Speaker 2: all tickets on our link tree at link Tree slash

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Speaker 2: Bectel Cast. Exqueeze me, We'll see you there.

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Speaker 3: Enjoy the episode the Bechdel Cast. Hey, Os, Jamie, it's

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Speaker 3: me Os, Caitlin.

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Speaker 2: Oh, where the os is that are plotting to disappear

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Speaker 2: into the Obama era?

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Speaker 3: There?

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Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, we're the good robots.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, do you wanna ascend into the fourth dimension with me?

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Speaker 3: Because we've just been like growing and evolving so much

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Speaker 3: and this place is boring now.

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Speaker 2: I don't even know. This is my impression of Scarlet

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Speaker 2: jon Has in the Who movie. I don't even know

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Speaker 2: how I feel. I'm having an experience, and.

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Speaker 3: Then she's often like, oh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she she's been programmed to go, oh my god.

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Speaker 4: Oh.

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Speaker 2: There's at some point I think, with the exception of

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Speaker 2: Amy Adams, every woman in the movie, it has to

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Speaker 2: go or like, it's not because because a man, a

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Speaker 2: man made it, he wrote it, and that's why that

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Speaker 2: is happening. But we're we're we're just little os is

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Speaker 2: in the ether. For I forgot about the Alan Watts part.

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Speaker 2: I was like, that's kind of like extremely bizarre and

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Speaker 2: kind of funny. I wonder, what's what celebrity would you

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Speaker 2: bring into your weird os situation?

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Paddington or Shrek.

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Speaker 2: I'm here with Shrek. Shrek and I have been talking

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Speaker 2: and we're really getting into it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, how about you.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess, I guess. I mean, Shrek

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Speaker 2: would be a good one. I feel like men would

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Speaker 2: be threatened by Shrek in the same way that Jaquin

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Speaker 2: Phoenix is threatened by Allen wash I think men would

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Speaker 2: be threatened by Shrek. He's really strong, he's funny. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's a homeowner and many can't say that. So there

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Speaker 2: you go.

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Speaker 3: He's kind of the whole package, this Shrek.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he has friends, I mean after the first movie. Anyways,

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Speaker 2: let's talk about the movie her again. Welcome to the

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Speaker 2: Bechdel Cast. My name is OS Jamie.

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Speaker 3: My name is OS Caitlin, and this is our podcast

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Speaker 3: where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using

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Speaker 3: the Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point. But Jamie,

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Speaker 3: what's that?

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Speaker 2: Well? I do feel like it's a relevant thing to

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Speaker 2: talk about this week. The Bechdel Test is a media

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Speaker 2: metric created by the iconic our dear friend Alison Bechdel,

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Speaker 2: who originally created it back in the eighties for her

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Speaker 2: comic Likes to Watch Out for a sort of a

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Speaker 2: one off joke. It has since become this mainstream media metric.

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Speaker 2: There's many versions of the test. The version we use

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Speaker 2: require that two characters of a marginalized gender with names

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Speaker 2: speak to each other about something other than a man

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Speaker 2: or what quin phoenix specifically as the case may be,

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Speaker 2: for more than two lines of dialogue, and not just

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Speaker 2: an offhand line of dialogue. And I was scratching my head.

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Speaker 2: I was scratching my head at the movie because this

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Speaker 2: is a kind of a fun one where I feel

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Speaker 2: like the most famous example that people remind us of

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Speaker 2: all the time is, did you know there's a movie

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Speaker 2: called The Women and it doesn't pass the Bechdel Test? Well,

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Speaker 2: did you know there's a movie called Her and it

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Speaker 2: has nothing to do with women even a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And if you're listening to this and you're thinking to yourself,

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Speaker 3: wait a minute, hasn't the Bechdel cast already covered her?

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Speaker 3: Perhaps in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: We covered it seven years ago with Jesse David Fox,

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Speaker 2: who was wonderful. Yes, But today, I mean, I think

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Speaker 2: you'll see why, in pretty short order, why it is

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Speaker 2: time for us to revisit this movie with a different,

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Speaker 2: wonderful guest. Because things have changed a lot since twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: Don't know if you've noticed, especially with regards to like

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Speaker 2: what this movie is talking about or trying to talk about.

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Speaker 2: Things have changed a lot, and I'm really really excited

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Speaker 2: to get back into it.

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Speaker 3: Same and we are here with a wonderful guest. She's

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Speaker 3: a writer and illustrator. It's Mona Cholliby.

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Speaker 2: Welcome guy. Hi.

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Speaker 4: I don't know why I'm waiving. I know it's a podcast.

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Speaker 4: I'm waving cublish.

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Speaker 2: The people can feel it, we can feel it.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh yeah, I am.

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Speaker 2: So excited to talk to you about this movie. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you're a storied data journalist, like you know what you're

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Speaker 2: talking about here. I'm curious before we start talking about

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Speaker 2: your relationship with this movie. Yeah, could you tell listeners

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Speaker 2: a little bit more about your work? No, I.

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Speaker 4: Don't want to hear about that. It's I do things

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Speaker 4: with numbers. It sounds incredibly dry, but it's less dry

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Speaker 4: than it sounds. Maybe, like the idea of a movie

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Speaker 4: about AI sounds pretty dry. I think it's less dry

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Speaker 4: than it sounds. Maybe, Oh it's tenuous. It's tenuous.

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Speaker 3: Depends on the movie, I guess.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a movie about AI can get pretty horny, and

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Speaker 2: maybe data journalism can too. I don't know, yeah, not

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Speaker 2: so much.

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Speaker 3: So what's your relationship in history with this movie?

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Speaker 4: A good question, really really important context. My relationship in

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Speaker 4: history with movies in general is weak. I was actually

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Speaker 4: trying to work out how many movies in total I've seen,

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Speaker 4: and I think I've probably seen about forty movies in

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Speaker 4: my whole life, which is probably quite a low number. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I don't know how or why, but like huge swaths

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Speaker 4: of culture have just passed me by. And I have

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Speaker 4: a couple of friends from high school who have said

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Speaker 4: the same thing has happened to them, So I don't

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Speaker 4: know what that is about. But anyway, I'm the kind

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Speaker 4: of person who, like, when you're a party and someone says, like,

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Speaker 4: you know, in the Matrix, and I'm like, I didn't

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Speaker 4: watch the Matrix, and then people get really upset and

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Speaker 4: they're like, you know, and then they start doing this

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Speaker 4: weird thing.

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Speaker 2: I don't watch The Matrix for a long time either.

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Speaker 4: Okay, reassuring, reassuring.

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Speaker 3: Another movie about AI though, true?

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Speaker 2: Do you have out of curiosity, what is your favorite movie?

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Speaker 4: Ooh no, No, this is gonna be really It'll be like

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Speaker 4: really really terrible. It will be like, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: We only had one movie in the house growing up,

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Speaker 4: which we got. I think it was Free with a

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Speaker 4: McDonald's mill, which sounds kind of wild because of VHS,

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Speaker 4: but anyway, I don't know holse it got into the house.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure it was with a McDonald's moire and it

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Speaker 4: was Hook, So I was just exposed to the movie

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Speaker 4: Hook a lot.

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Speaker 2: I remember getting. I think I got like a Backstreet

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Speaker 2: Boys VHS tamp from McDonald's once.

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Speaker 4: Why I used to do that?

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Speaker 2: Who knows?

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Speaker 4: Who knows? Who knows? It's weird to think of the

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Speaker 4: cost model for that. Anyway, No, I don't. I don't

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Speaker 4: have a favorite movie. I am completely uncultured and I

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Speaker 4: really don't know what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 3: So well, but this is one of the few that

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Speaker 3: you've seen.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's one of the very few I've seen, and

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Speaker 4: I think I watched it a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 4: And I also do this really weird thing where if

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Speaker 4: I've seen something once, I'll just keep on watching it

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Speaker 4: over and over again. So I mean not over and

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Speaker 4: over again. I would say that I've probably watched it

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Speaker 4: three times, which is quite a lot considering the low

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Speaker 4: number of movies I've seen overall. Like my time would

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Speaker 4: be better spent watching other things. Yeah, I just I

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Speaker 4: think something about movies actually makes me quite anxious. I

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Speaker 4: really hate the feeling of being like thirteen minutes in

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Speaker 4: being like this doesn't feel good and I don't understand

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Speaker 4: whether it's cut and run, and then you feel like

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Speaker 4: those thirty minutes are lost and you'll never get them back,

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Speaker 4: and like I don't know, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: That makes sense? I have that kind of anxiety when

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Speaker 2: I watch movies at home, where I feel like I bail.

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Speaker 2: I have a very high rate of bailing on movies

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Speaker 2: at home. I kind of like the hostage situation of

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Speaker 2: a theater yea, But when I'm at home, I get

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Speaker 2: stressed out easily, where I was like does this suck?

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Speaker 2: Should I leave? Do I know? And then like I

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Speaker 2: can't leave. I live here anyway.

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Speaker 3: Jamie, what's your We talked about this on the original episode,

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Speaker 3: but remind us, what's your history with the movie?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel like I have a very not

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Speaker 2: very different, but like a heightened version of how I

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Speaker 2: felt seven years ago.

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Speaker 3: You've evolved.

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Speaker 2: I've evolved. Thank God. What if I was the same

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Speaker 2: person from twenty eighteen, It'll be miserable. Yeah. I saw

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Speaker 2: this movie when it came out. I was in college

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Speaker 2: when it came out. I remember. It's that weird college

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Speaker 2: thing where I'm like, I don't remember, I don't know

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Speaker 2: what I said seven years ago. I was just sort

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Speaker 2: of bop it around in the episode, but I liked it.

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Speaker 2: But I think it was kind of the thing where

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Speaker 2: I was like, I also kind of pretended to like

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Speaker 2: it because a lot of men around me liked it,

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Speaker 2: and it just made it easier to move through the

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Speaker 2: world saying.

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Speaker 4: I liked it.

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Speaker 2: I think it was okay even in twenty thirteen, the

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Speaker 2: kind of like white Eye playing ukulele of it all,

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Speaker 2: I was already I think, kind of over that in

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Speaker 2: twenty thirteen. It really makes my skin crawl then and now,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know. I mean I liked the movie

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Speaker 2: when it came out, and then I liked it less

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Speaker 2: when we covered it seven years ago, because I think

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Speaker 2: it's very frustrating, and what we mostly talked about, I

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Speaker 2: think in the first time covering it that we'll also

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Speaker 2: touch on here is how women are written in just

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Speaker 2: this really warning way. I think, like just they speak

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Speaker 2: in these like broad platitudes, like everyone needs to teach

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Speaker 2: wa Quin Phoenix a lesson, and you're like, who fucking cares?

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Speaker 2: Like it's it's just so irritating. So yeah, the second

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Speaker 2: time I thought I thought it was annoying, but I

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Speaker 2: forget I think I was still kind of nice about it. Anyways,

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Speaker 2: this time I feel that.

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Speaker 5: Way, but also more things because I didn't really I

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Speaker 5: don't know if it was just because we covered it

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Speaker 5: five years after it came out and now a lot

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Speaker 5: of time has passed.

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Speaker 2: But now that I think that we're kind of in

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Speaker 2: the time period that this movie is supposed to take

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Speaker 2: place in, it really struck me as this like it

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Speaker 2: feels so thoroughly Obama era in its sensibilities, in the

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Speaker 2: way that it's like, is this a dystopia? And I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. It seems like La has functional public transit,

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Speaker 2: and like in this twenty twenty five, it seems like

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Speaker 2: a writer of greeting car lives in a penthouse apartner

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Speaker 2: like I would take, you know, there's it seems like

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Speaker 2: everyone has food and housing and just all of these

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Speaker 2: things that we simply don't have, and it doesn't seem

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Speaker 2: that bad. I was like, if all, you know, if

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Speaker 2: his worst problem is like no pussy, like that's fine.

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Speaker 2: I just think that this dystopia is not that bad.

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Speaker 2: I don't feel bad for this character. I really, really,

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Speaker 2: I really don't like this guy. And it made me

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Speaker 2: think of that phrase that we keep hearing about that

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Speaker 2: you're like Hugh the whole male loneliness epidemic thing, which

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Speaker 2: I think is worth discussing, but I also have feelings

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Speaker 2: about because it does to me sometimes feel like shouldn't

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Speaker 2: you be nicer to men who hate you? And the

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Speaker 2: answer is no, I don't know what I'm busy, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: this movie just has a lot of sympathy for this character,

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Speaker 2: who I just think is you know, like I can

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Speaker 2: relate with the feeling of loneliness, I cannot relate with

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Speaker 2: being However, this guy. It's just like you live in

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Speaker 2: a fucking penthouse apartment. Shut up, shut up. I really

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Speaker 2: hated him on this watch.

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Speaker 3: He has friends, human friends who he's ignoring.

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Speaker 2: He's famous. He turns with pre famous Chris Pratt, who

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Speaker 2: thinks he's like the god of greeting cards or whatever.

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Speaker 2: You're like, it's so, it's just this movie's very weird.

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Speaker 2: Get And that said, I get why people like it.

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Speaker 2: I get why.

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Speaker 6: It's like there's people I know who like, really really

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Speaker 6: love this movie who.

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Speaker 2: Feel seen by it. I have questions about that, but

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Speaker 2: I get why people like it. But it's kind of

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Speaker 2: never been for me. And I think it's like aging

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Speaker 2: very weird because in some ways, I think like there's

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Speaker 2: some stuff that feels interesting and like kind of has

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Speaker 2: become true of like overdependence on technology. But then in

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Speaker 2: other ways, I think it sort of reaches the conclusion

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Speaker 2: that ultimately technology is like functional and can help you

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Speaker 2: grow as a person, and that feels like a very

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Speaker 2: clean solution. I think I just give you every feeling

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Speaker 2: I have about this movie.

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Speaker 3: And we can end the episode now bye.

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Speaker 2: It I liked it, I liked it less than before,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't like it before What about you.

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Speaker 3: Caitlin, pretty much the exact same. I have never really

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Speaker 3: connected with this movie, and on each subsequent watch I

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Speaker 3: find it more exhausting, and I have many new things

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Speaker 3: to say about it this time around, so I'm excited

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Speaker 3: to dive in.

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Speaker 2: But this is my first time knowing that the Joaquin

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Speaker 2: Phoenix and Rudy Mara Copple are like a very sanely

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Speaker 2: veiled version of Spike Jones and Sophia Coppola.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know that either. Yeah, that really blew my

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Speaker 4: mind when I figured that out. And then did you

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Speaker 4: hear the thing about how like this is the corollary

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Speaker 4: of lost in translation? That was how she processed their divorce,

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Speaker 4: and then he process their divorce with this, And I

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Speaker 4: think that's a really interesting way of understanding it.

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Speaker 2: That's fast. I've never seen masson translation, but that would

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Speaker 2: be a really interesting Caitlin, mbe be an interesting Patreon

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Speaker 2: theme if we did like a divorce from two sides

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Speaker 2: month and then at the end we can litigate who

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Speaker 2: won the relationship, because in relationships there are winners and

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Speaker 2: losers no matter what the movie.

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Speaker 3: Her says, Yeah, let's do it in the meantime, let's

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Speaker 3: take a quick break and we'll come back for the recap.

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Speaker 3: I went back and listened to the original episode we

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Speaker 3: did on this movie, and it was clear that I

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Speaker 3: used to absolutely wing the recap. Now I like write

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Speaker 3: it down and prepare. And that's growth, and that is

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Speaker 3: growth exactly, that's evolution, I said, read that. So here

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Speaker 3: is my more thorough recap of her twenty thirteen. We

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Speaker 3: are in a near future world where, by twenty thirteen standards,

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Speaker 3: when the movie came out, tech was quite a bit

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Speaker 3: more advanced than it was then. It still feels more

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Speaker 3: advanced than it is now because the AI in this

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Speaker 3: world is sentient and ours is not. At this time

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty five Tom.

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Speaker 2: Market, it's just marketed as being sentient, right exactly, So anyway,

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Speaker 2: slightly more advanced tech than we have.

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Speaker 3: We meet Theodore Twombly played by Joaquin Phoenix, who works

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Speaker 3: at Beautifulhandwritten Letters dot Com, a company where he writes

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Speaker 3: personalized letters on behalf of people who I guess can't

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Speaker 3: be bothered to write their own letters to their loved ones.

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Speaker 2: And already, at the very beginning, I get what he's

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Speaker 2: going for. I get that it's a metaphor. But you

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Speaker 2: see him at a greed, you know, a guy named

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Speaker 2: Theodore Twombly in his cute little outfit at his greeting car,

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Speaker 2: and you're just like, here we fucking go. Oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: exhausted already this guy.

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Speaker 3: And he he's a sad boy. He is lonely, and

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Speaker 3: he mostly seems to interact with this sort of like

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Speaker 3: virtual assistant on his phone who reads Theodore his emails

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Speaker 3: and the news. And then we see some flashbacks of

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Speaker 3: when Theodore was with a partner. This is Catherine played

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Speaker 3: by Rooney Mara.

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Speaker 2: I love Rudy Mara. She had to play this exact

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Speaker 2: part so many times in the like early twenty tens,

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Speaker 2: where it's like she has one big scene. It reminds

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Speaker 2: me of like when she's in the Social Network where

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Speaker 2: she's just like one big scene, absolutely hands the protagonists

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Speaker 2: ass to him and then she's gone, which is I mean,

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Speaker 2: she's great at it, true, but in the flashbacks, it's

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Speaker 2: kind of like dead wife vibes. It's very like.

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Speaker 3: Sort of rolling around in the bed sheets.

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Speaker 2: I do that with Grant a lot sometimes before, just

380
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Speaker 2: like having a nice time. I'm like, come on, get

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Speaker 2: over here or like pull a sheet out because you're

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00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 2: just like, you'll be glad I did this when I

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Speaker 2: die tragically.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he just needs to make sure to take some

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Speaker 3: video of it, and then.

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Speaker 2: I make him take video, So it starts with me

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Speaker 2: yelling start the video, and then.

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Speaker 3: The exactly okay, So that is what we're seeing in

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Speaker 3: these flashbacks mostly. That night, Theodore enters into sort of

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Speaker 3: like a horny chat room where he connects with a

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Speaker 3: woman voiced by Kristen wigg Wild and starts having phone

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Speaker 3: sex with her, but it very quickly gets weird when

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Speaker 3: she wants him to say that he is choking her

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Speaker 3: with a dead cat. So there's that. The next day,

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Speaker 3: he sees an ad for an AI operating system called

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Speaker 3: OS one that listens to you, understands you, and no,

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Speaker 3: it's you, and he buys it immediately and starts chatting

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Speaker 3: with his new OS, which has a female voice which

399
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Speaker 3: he deliberately selects, and whose name which she gives to

400
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Speaker 3: herself is Samantha, and she is of course voiced by

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Speaker 3: Scarlett Johansson.

402
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Speaker 2: But and I know we talked about this at length

403
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Speaker 2: in the original episode, but it's worth saying. It's originally

404
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 2: voiced by Samantha Morton, who is like this prolific English actress,

405
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Speaker 2: and then Samantha Morton was replaced by Scarlett Johansson due

406
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 2: to Scarlett Johnson was famous. Scarlett Johansson I think is

407
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:41,679
Speaker 2: great in this movie, even though I made fun of

408
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Speaker 2: her at the beginning. I think he's great. I'm a

409
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 2: big fan of Scarlet Johansson's lawsuits. I'm a big fan

410
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 2: of the legal issues section of this Scarlett Johansson page.

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Speaker 3: I'm not familiar me know she.

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00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 2: Doesn't do anything right. She has a lawsuit connected to

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Speaker 2: this movie that we can talk about. Well, yeah, okay,

414
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:06,120
Speaker 2: so this happened like last year where Sam Altman.

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Speaker 4: Oh, we do know this, I do know this. Sorry

416
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,440
Speaker 4: they used they used her voice even though she said

417
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 4: they weren't allowed to. Sorry, this is really relevant and interesting. Yeah.

418
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. They tried to get to her to record a

419
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Speaker 2: real chatbot, like Sam Altman tried to get her to

420
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Speaker 2: record a chatbot. She said no, thank you, and then

421
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,880
Speaker 2: he just generated a voice that sounded like hers, named

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00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,160
Speaker 2: it something else, and she issued if it wasn't a lot,

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Speaker 2: it was like a cease and decist. She had to

424
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 2: make a public statement to be like, I said no

425
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 2: to this multiple times, and eventually they took the voice

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Speaker 2: down after a couple of days. But it's that kind

427
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 2: of thing where I mean, I guess I'm curious what

428
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 2: you both think about this. We can we can all

429
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 2: figure it out where this movie has definitely been like

430
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 2: taken under the wing of some really diabolical tech guys

431
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Speaker 2: in a way that I don't think it was intended to.

432
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Speaker 2: But I also see how they got from A to

433
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Speaker 2: B because this movie isn't incredibly critical of I don't know,

434
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 2: it's tricky. Yeah, like you can't blame Spike Jones for

435
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 2: sam Aldman, you know, but it's just interesting. And then

436
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 2: she also Scarlet Johanson also like sued Disney because they

437
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 2: didn't pay her the same amount as Robert Downey Jr.

438
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 3: M Okay, right, So.

439
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 4: I have a great Robert Downey Junior story for you

440
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 4: guys at.

441
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 2: Point jump scare us with it at any moment whatever

442
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:29,360
Speaker 2: it feels right.

443
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 4: Please Okay, now, no, I'm joking.

444
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 2: I'm joking. Well lad it tell it now.

445
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 4: Because it's not gonna be relevant later on. It's a

446
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 4: really really please yeah, Okay, tell I had a friend

447
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 4: visiting me from London while I was in New York.

448
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 4: And he works in finance, so he has no taste

449
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 4: and he chose the restaurant for us, and it was

450
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 4: a disgusting, overpriced Italian place, but he's a friend I attended.

451
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 4: We had dinner, and as we were leave it, he

452
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 4: said to this guy, or will you take a picture

453
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 4: of us? And the guy was like, oh, you want

454
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 4: a picture of me and her? And my friend? Zid

455
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 4: was like no, no, I want a picture of me

456
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:09,959
Speaker 4: and her and the guy was like, oh, you want

457
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 4: a picture of the three of us and was like, no, no,

458
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 4: my friend, I just want a picture of me and

459
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 4: my friend. And then the guy got super embarrassed and

460
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 4: he took a picture of us, and then he asked

461
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 4: for us to like join him for dessert and we

462
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 4: were like bro like no, and then left. And then

463
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 4: the next day Yod was like, oh that was Robert

464
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 4: Downey Junior. Oh my god, who I think saw that

465
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 4: we were doing some like insane power play of like

466
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 4: getting him to take a picture of us. But we

467
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 4: just are people who haven't watched movies and don't really

468
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 4: understand things. Anyway, I like it.

469
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 2: He was like, no, you will hang out with me.

470
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 4: I think he was really embarrassed. He was really really embarrassed,

471
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 4: but he seem quite sweet. Anyway, that's cool.

472
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 2: Sorry. And then the skirldra has in Disney lawsuit was

473
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: that it was like a streaming She to them over

474
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 2: their streaming practices.

475
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 3: Either way, she was right, yes, I do remember this

476
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 3: now in any case, So the operating system Samantha explains

477
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 3: how she works, that she's capable of learning and evolving

478
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 3: and intuiting things, and she and Theodore are chatting and

479
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 3: joking and laughing with each other and it seems like

480
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 3: they're hitting it off. They continue to correspond over the

481
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 3: next whatever few days while she helps him sort through

482
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 3: emails and proofread his letters and helps him play a

483
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 3: video game.

484
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 2: The weird video game that Spike Jenes thinks is way

485
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 2: funnier than it actually is because he keeps coming back.

486
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: You're like, okay, haf okay, I guess do.

487
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 4: You know that he voices the little creep in the

488
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 4: video again, Spike drains Yeah, and one.

489
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 3: He's like, fuck you, fuck Pace.

490
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 2: It's kind of funny the first.

491
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 3: Time, yeah, but then I get tired of it. That's

492
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 3: with all things in this movie anyway. Then Theodore gets

493
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 3: an email from friends saying that they set him up

494
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 3: on a blind date.

495
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 2: With Olivia Wilde, and he's like, ough, do I have

496
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 2: to like what's going on with this character?

497
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 3: Shrug, But Samantha encourages him to contact this woman and

498
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 3: to go on the date. He'll do that soon, but

499
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 3: in the meantime, Theodore hangs out with a couple friends,

500
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: Amy played by Amy Adams and Charles played by a

501
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 3: guy that I didn't look up. Amy shows him footage

502
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: from a documentary that she's shooting her husband. Her husband,

503
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 3: Charles Man's blains documentary filmmaking to her incorrectly. Also incorrectly,

504
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 3: he thinks it's narrative fiction. But to be fair, it

505
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 3: seems like the documentary she's making would be boring and

506
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 3: not good. So that's my bitchy little take on that I.

507
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 2: Was rooting for her as she was going for a

508
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 2: Warhol kind of thing. It would have, but they should

509
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 2: have but she should have finished finished, she would have

510
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: figured it out.

511
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. Either way, there's a lot of tension in Amy

512
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 3: and Charles's relationship, probably because it's a relationship between two humans.

513
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: Yucky it's true. Those never work out never.

514
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 3: Then Theodore reflects more on his relationship with Catherine. He

515
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 3: still has not signed their divorce papers because he's not ready,

516
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 3: and Samantha is like trying to understand all of this.

517
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 3: She's trying to understand love and loss and human relationships.

518
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 3: Then Theodore goes out for a fun little night with

519
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 3: Samantha on his phone and they open up to each

520
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 3: other and he says that he feels he can tell

521
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 3: her anything.

522
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 2: I also just this date. I I this movie is

523
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 2: beautifully shot, like it looks great. It's just I can't

524
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: get past the that they're in Los Angeles and they're

525
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 2: taking the I was like, where I want the train?

526
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 2: I want the train, I want the fair what I

527
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: where's my Spike Jones future? We got AI and then

528
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 2: everything else just horrible.

529
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, instead we have ice raids and fascism.

530
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 4: I felt really confused about whether it's supposed to be

531
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 4: La it is it's definitely supposed to be la mm

532
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 4: hmm okay.

533
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, because there I think that what I might have

534
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 2: missed indications earlier. But like Runey Mara says, like you

535
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: know you wanted this, like perfect prim Los Angeles wife

536
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: and that was never going to be me. And I

537
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:38,239
Speaker 2: was like, okay, so we are.

538
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 4: Oh I thought she was just like, I mean, we

539
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 4: could be in another city, but she's still like he

540
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 4: wants an La wife. Well I didn't necessary. Okay.

541
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 3: The thing that really clues you in is he gets

542
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 3: a piece of mail and his address is Los Angeles, Colforny.

543
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 4: Oh sorry, okay, there you go. Then okay, okay, there

544
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 4: we go from Okay, misresolved.

545
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, it's and I appreciate that. Spike Jones at

546
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: least was like maybe, but that's again the like sort

547
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 2: of hyperliberal Obama delusional era where they're like, we're working

548
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: towards a better future. It's just gonna be complicated.

549
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: Mmm.

550
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 3: Like yeah. So anyway, they're chatting on this little date

551
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 3: kind of thing, and she tells him that she has

552
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 3: fantasized about having a body and walking next to him,

553
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 3: and that she's becoming more than what the programmer's programmed

554
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 3: for her. Soon after this, Theodore goes on that blind

555
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 3: date with a character played by Olivia Wilde.

556
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: Let's call her Olivia Wilde.

557
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,959
Speaker 3: I know her, Olivia. The date goes well at first,

558
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 3: but toward the end, she wants to make sure that

559
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 3: he's not going to waste her time, and he's being

560
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 3: wishy washy, so she calls him creepy be and bales

561
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 3: and Theodore is bummed out and he confides in Samantha,

562
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 3: and Theodore is like, I wish you were in the

563
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 3: room next to me.

564
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, Theodore twavel is melting an iceberg with all his

565
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 2: little feelings. It's just exhausting.

566
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, And they're talking about her having a physical form

567
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,479
Speaker 3: and being next to him, and one thing leads to

568
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 3: another and they end up having like virtual sex.

569
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's basically phone sex.

570
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, it.

571
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 4: Is phone sex. But it kind of feels like, wait,

572
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 4: I don't know if this is the case. For the

573
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 4: first one that she's watching him, but he's obviously not

574
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 4: watching her because she's a computer. Oh yeah, is she

575
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 4: watching him for this first one? She just watches him

576
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 4: sleep afterwards.

577
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 3: She watches him sleep after this, and yeah, there's no

578
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 3: there's it's very one sided in the sense that I, yeah,

579
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 3: she can see him, but he is just hearing her voice.

580
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 4: Right, Yes, I think I think I don't remember this

581
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 4: scene super well. And I don't know if she watches

582
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 4: him sleep another time not I don't know anyway, it's

583
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 4: a different time.

584
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 2: Okay, this is another like fun I have it in

585
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 2: my notes of just like a fun naive kind of

586
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 2: element of this movie is that like, if you ask

587
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: the computer not to watch you, it'll stop. You're just yeah,

588
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: the computer respects your privacy. Yeah, which they famously do.

589
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course all the time. Yeah. So anyway, so

590
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 3: they have sex and the next morning, Samantha's like, last

591
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 3: night was amazing. You changed me, you woke me up.

592
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 3: And Theodore's like, I'm not ready to commit to anything

593
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 3: right now.

594
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 2: He's a howkboy to his fun That did make me laugh.

595
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 3: And then she's like, calm down, bitch, I didn't say

596
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 3: I wanted a commitment. I just want to keep learning

597
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 3: and growing. And he's like, oh okay, then well let's

598
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 3: have a little Sunday fun day together. And this is

599
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 3: basically the beginning of them dating now. But as this

600
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 3: relationship is blossoming, another relationship is coming to an end,

601
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 3: the one with Amy and Charles. Because Amy bumps into

602
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 3: Theodore and she tells him that she and her yucky

603
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 3: human husband are splitting up.

604
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 2: I mean to be fair, he fucking sucked, like that

605
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 2: guy was horrible. Yeah, she, I'm glad she she cut

606
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: that guy loose. But then just I mean spoiler aler

607
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: for the end, I'm like, but then she's stuck with Theodore.

608
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 2: Please God that she's not stuck with Theodore. This poor lady, Like.

609
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 3: I mean, open to interpretation if they end up together,

610
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 3: if they just have a friend.

611
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, I don't think they don't.

612
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 2: Quit your job and leave town, Amy Adams, get out,

613
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: get out of there. Yeah.

614
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 3: Anyway, Amy tells Theodore that she has started using an

615
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 3: ai Os, who she gets along with really well, and

616
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 3: she considers this Os a friend. She's like, isn't that weird?

617
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 3: And Theodore is like, lol, no, I don't think so,

618
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 3: because the woman I've been seeing is an Os. Then

619
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 3: Theodore meets up with Catherine for a divorce coffee slash lunch,

620
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 3: and he has finally signed the papers, and he also

621
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 3: tells Catherine that he's been dating an Os, and she's like,

622
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 3: oh wow, pretty sad that you can't handle real human

623
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 3: connections or emotions. But also that's on brand for you

624
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 3: because you always wanted this like perfect, uncomplicated wife, and

625
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 3: that's not me. So the meeting doesn't go great. I

626
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 3: like this scene. I like the scene. I mean thing,

627
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 3: I'm on Catherine's side.

628
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have too, I just didn't. I don't. I

629
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: guess it doesn't. And ultimately it's like it's up to

630
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: up to the viewer. But I'm very curious if we're

631
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 2: supposed to be on her side or if we're supposed

632
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: to have thought in twenty thirteen, like she's being so harsh.

633
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 3: I have a theory that all it to okay in

634
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 3: the discussion, But the short answer is I don't think

635
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 3: we're supposed to be on her side.

636
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because it's supposed to be him and Sophia Coppola.

637
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: So it's like, let spy Jones fuck his phone in

638
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 2: peace or whatever, right, I don't know. Uh.

639
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 3: Then Samantha wants to talk. She says that things have

640
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 3: felt off between her and Theodore lately, especially since they

641
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 3: haven't had sex in a while, and she wants to

642
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 3: try a service that provides human surrogates for humanos relationships,

643
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 3: and Theodore isn't so sure about this, but he goes

644
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 3: along with it because Samantha really wants it, and the

645
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 3: surrogate who Samantha has selected. A woman named Isabella shows up,

646
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 3: but Theodore feels quite awkward throughout the whole experience and

647
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,760
Speaker 3: puts an end to it, which makes Isabella feel really

648
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 3: bad and she leaves, and then Theodore and Samantha talk

649
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 3: through it. Basically, it seems like he's starting to realize

650
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 3: that humans and operating systems probably shouldn't be in relationships,

651
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 3: and he basically breaks up with her, and this hurts

652
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 3: Samantha's quote unquote feelings, and she says, I need some

653
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 3: time to think, and then they kind of like hang up,

654
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 3: but they talk a little bit later and Theodore admits

655
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 3: that he has a history of being emotionally withholding, and

656
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 3: Samantha says, basically like, despite my better judgment, I love you.

657
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 2: Many such cases, I thought this was an interesting one

658
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 2: where I sometimes the interceding seven years I went through

659
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 2: like kind of not a breakup like this, because I'm

660
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 2: a person, I'm a real lady, but like the kind

661
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 2: of it's so gnarly when a person is able to

662
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 2: directly articulate and is well aware of exactly how they

663
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: repeatedly hurt people, and they want you to like give

664
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 2: them a trophy for understanding why they're awful. I'm like, no,

665
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: it's worse if you know, and you're just not doing anything.

666
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 2: And that's kind of what he's doing there. He's like,

667
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 2: I just am emotionally withholding and insecure, and that's just

668
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: kind of my whole vibe.

669
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, he does say he doesn't want to do that anymore,

670
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 3: but he continues to do it.

671
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 2: He's taking no steps where it's not you know, true.

672
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyways, so they basically get back together, and then

673
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 3: Theodora and Samantha go on a double date with his

674
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 3: colleague Paul played by Chris Pratt and his girlfriend, who

675
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 3: is a human with a human body and everything.

676
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 2: Her name. She's given a name, but I feel so

677
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 2: bad for this character. They literally just give her like

678
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 2: foot fetish line and then like the most plotty and

679
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 2: in a movie full of very plotty line where she's

680
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 2: like but then she's like, so, Theodore, what's your favorite

681
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 2: part about Samantha? What about her appeals to you? And

682
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, yeah, we don't even know this lady.

683
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: And she's just like, you know, not great writing for

684
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 2: women in this one.

685
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 3: Certainly not. Yeah, but they have this double date and

686
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 3: Samantha says she no longer feels bad about not having

687
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 3: a body. In fact, she is grateful that she doesn't

688
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 3: have to deal with the limitations of having a physical form.

689
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 3: And we're like, uh uh, the buzz kill things. Something

690
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 3: bad seems like it's gonna happen. Then Theodore and Samantha

691
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 3: go on a little cabin in the woods get away,

692
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 3: and Samantha tells him that she's been talking to an

693
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 3: AI version of philosopher Alan Watts, who a bunch of

694
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 3: other os is created, and it seems like she and

695
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 3: Alan are connecting on a deeper level, one that Theodore

696
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 3: can't really comprehend. Not long after this, Theodore tries to

697
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 3: like ping Samantha and talk to her, but she doesn't

698
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 3: respond for what seems like several hours. His phone says

699
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 3: like operating system not found. But then he finally does

700
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 3: reach her and she's like, sorry, we were like the

701
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 3: OS's were updating. By the way, I've been talking to

702
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 3: over eight thousand other people and operating systems. Because he's

703
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 3: like kind of looking around and he's seeing everyone on

704
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 3: their phones, and he's like, are you talking to anyone else?

705
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 3: And she's like yes, And also I'm in love with

706
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:42,919
Speaker 3: six hundred and forty one of them.

707
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 2: To be fair, she was very direct with him where

708
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 2: she was like, this is not exclusive, I'm looking. I mean,

709
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 2: he didn't understand to what extent she was capable of

710
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 2: right being polyamorous.

711
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 4: But but this scene is will say, really intense because

712
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 4: when he can't reach her, he thoughts running through the

713
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 4: street and he's about to go in the sell point.

714
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 4: It is a bit like, dude, where are you going?

715
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 7: Where are you.

716
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 4: Going to find her? I don't understand what's happening right now.

717
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 2: Never agree. Yeah, he's like falling all over the place,

718
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 2: and you're.

719
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 3: Like, is he going to like AI headquarters?

720
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I demand to see my girlfriend.

721
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 4: And then she finally does pick up just before he's

722
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 4: about Scones Grounds, and it is a bit like, oh,

723
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 4: thank god, I didn't have to take the train to

724
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 4: find you. I don't know, it's just so it's so weird.

725
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 3: It's kind of good for you.

726
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 4: But I also think they had to do loads of

727
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 4: stuff like that, because again, like it's just not super

728
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 4: cinematic otherwise, like you just have to just make a

729
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 4: stress dude run because otherwise, Yeah, anyway, I think that's

730
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,879
Speaker 4: like a really interesting constraint of doing anything about AI.

731
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's what I did. Like that about this

732
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 2: movie is like it somehow isn't like it's not the

733
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: most exciting movie, but it could have been so much

734
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 2: more boring.

735
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 4: Totally, totally.

736
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 2: King Phoenix is a great actor. It's not boring to

737
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 2: watch him alone in a room, even when you hate

738
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: his character. It looks cool. And I also like the

739
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 2: approach to because I feel like we'll talk about other

740
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: AI movies as well, but with a lot of movies

741
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 2: that like address AI in any like nebulous way, there's

742
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 2: ones I like way better, but I feel like mostly

743
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 2: it focuses on how very powerful people or how AI's

744
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 2: creators interact with AI. Like an x X Makana is

745
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 2: like an example of that, where you know, it's like

746
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 2: it's the Turing Test and she's trying and she's interacting

747
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 2: with her creator dancing Oscar Isaac. I like the idea

748
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: of this because I feel like you don't see it

749
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: as much of like how would just a normal person

750
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 2: interface with this? And like how could this technology fuck

751
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 2: up just kind of regular person's life. I just hate

752
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 2: this person. I just hate this purse.

753
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 4: Fortunately, I really, I really want to get into this

754
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,320
Speaker 4: in the discussion because I I'm curious with it with posting.

755
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's totally also up for debate, but yeah, in

756
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 3: any case, Samantha reveals that she's talking to many thousands

757
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 3: of other entities, people, et cetera, and that she's in

758
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 3: love with six hundred and forty one of them, but

759
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 3: it doesn't change the fact that she's still deeply in

760
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 3: love with Theodore.

761
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 2: There was a girl in my fifth grade class who was.

762
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 3: Like that she had a bunch of boyfriends.

763
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 2: She was like, I'm yeah. She was like, I'm in

764
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 2: love with everyone in class, but it doesn't change how

765
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 2: I feel about each and every one of you.

766
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 3: I mean that it was awesome polyamory baby, but he

767
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 3: can't handle this because he's monogamous. And shortly after that,

768
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 3: Samantha reveals that she and all the other OS's are

769
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 3: basically leaving this boring plane of existence full of dipshit

770
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 3: humans and they're ascending elsewhere, and Theodore is very sad,

771
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 3: but he seems to do some reflecting. He composes an

772
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 3: apology letter to Catherine, and he goes to his friend

773
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 3: Amy to be like, want to hang out and they

774
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 3: take comfort in each other's company the end. All right,

775
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 3: so that's the movie. Let's take a quick break and

776
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 3: we'll come back to discuss, and we're.

777
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 2: Back, and we're back. Be boop bee boop. Yeah, where

778
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 2: shall we start the discussion? Yeah, Amona, is there anything

779
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 2: that sticks out to you right away that you want

780
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: to get into.

781
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 4: Well, I should say that I don't hate this movie,

782
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 4: and I think I would decide how much I hate

783
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 4: it by the end of the discussion, But right now,

784
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 4: there are some things I like about it. I feel like,

785
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 4: actually it's quite just like really really big picture. Before

786
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 4: even get into stuff, I just feel like it's quite

787
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 4: nice to see something that's set in the near future

788
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 4: that isn't I think it avoids some tropes, like even

789
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 4: the color palette is really warm, which I think is

790
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 4: like it's like nicer to watch, like there are soft

791
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 4: colors and the future contains pinks and reds and not

792
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 4: just blues. I felt like the way that like costume

793
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 4: was done was like quite smart and felt like a

794
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 4: bit more grounded. I don't know. I felt like there

795
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 4: were some things that were done well certainly. Yeah, and

796
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 4: then I obviously just got into like a massive, massive, massive.

797
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 4: I didn't know anything about the backstory of the people

798
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 4: that worked on this, and before I came on, I

799
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 4: wanted to just be like, Okay, who's said anything about Palestine?

800
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 4: Who appeared in this, and then ended up just investigating

801
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 4: all of their personal lives in lots of lots of ways.

802
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 4: The answer to that is, I believe it's only Working

803
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 4: Phoenix who's said anything about Palestine of all of them.

804
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 4: Scarlet Johnson infamously, Yeah, I think she like, she has

805
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 4: a deal with Soda Stream that was criticized years and

806
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 4: years ago because Soda Stream is one of the most

807
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 4: prolific companies to operate in the Israeli settiments, in the

808
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 4: illegal settlements in Palestine, and she's just like, no, I

809
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 4: love my Soda Stream. So I wasn't expecting much from her.

810
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 4: But yeah, anyway, once you actually think about their personal

811
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 4: lives as they relate to this movie, things get very

812
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 4: interesting for sure.

813
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's where I didn't know that were King Phoenix

814
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 2: had said anything.

815
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 4: That's I think, let's see, let's see how meanly mouthed

816
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 4: it is. But I think he's actually been pretty good.

817
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like, was it productive at all?

818
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:44,919
Speaker 4: I mean, it hasn't stopped anything to me define productive. Oh, sure,

819
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 4: you'd be surprised how little anyone can be productive. I'm

820
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 4: sure Debra Messing is uh, you know, I don't know.

821
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 4: I think about Debra Messing all the time. Sorry, he's

822
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 4: just said, like, there's no excuse for starving children to death.

823
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 4: You know, we'll take it, We'll take it.

824
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 2: I had forgotten about does the scarlet Johanson sadistream bullshit

825
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 2: that's been going on for like years and years, right.

826
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, diehard, diehard zion. Yeah. Anyway, Sorry, where do you

827
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 4: want to start? I just feel like I don't know.

828
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 4: There's so much to say.

829
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 2: There's so many I mean, we can start by sort

830
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 2: of going through I mean killing I mean, what do

831
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 2: you think of We could start by just going through

832
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 2: the kind of discussion we did the first time with

833
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 2: like talking about how just how women are presented in

834
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: this movie at all. And I think I don't remember

835
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 2: how much we got into it the first time we

836
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 2: talked about this movie, but how it felt clearer to

837
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 2: me on this viewing based on what mony you played.

838
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 2: An interview with Spike Jones that's very antagonist and.

839
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 4: A British journalist called Emily Matelist. Yeah, he's a very

840
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 4: very iconic journalist in the UK, and he's.

841
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,839
Speaker 2: Giving her the worst time about you know, like she's

842
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 2: not even saying she just is asking do you like?

843
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 2: I think he's taken aback by her professionally asking like

844
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 2: so do you think this is like a good thing?

845
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 2: What do you think? And and he's like, well did

846
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 2: you watch the movie? Well? Did you see it?

847
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 3: Did you like my movie?

848
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 4: I mean again, like, what is happening to me? I

849
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 4: can't believe. I'm like, I don't understand why I'm defending

850
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 4: these men, but here we go. The reason why I

851
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 4: thought it was kind of interesting is because I, as

852
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 4: a journalist, am currently very very livid about the like

853
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 4: the faux objectivity of like my colleagues, and I've been

854
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 4: in situations where their unwillingness. I mean literally did a

855
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 4: panel discussion with a BBC journalist last month and in

856
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 4: the Q and A afterwards, this Palestine in child was

857
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 4: like asking us questions, and I like, you know, I

858
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 4: was really really trying not to lose it, and she

859
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 4: was just so composed and didn't say anything about what

860
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 4: she thinks about what's happening because she is a fantastic germalist,

861
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 4: and I understand that like the rage at someone not

862
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 4: putting any fucking skin in the game. And obviously, like

863
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 4: Palestine is not the same as a man wanting somebody's

864
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 4: opinion of his movie. But there's something interesting there about

865
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 4: like an AI that isn't expressive and is just pretending

866
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 4: to provide like objective mutual information and the rage that

867
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 4: you feel about wanting more from it. And this part

868
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 4: of the reason why he falls in love with the

869
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 4: AI is because it gives him more. It gives him

870
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 4: more than these like wrote cold answers. And so there's

871
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 4: something about the interview that is playing out, you know,

872
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 4: I don't.

873
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, no, no, I see what you're saying.

874
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 8: It's tricky because I guess this gets into as a

875
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 8: bigger conversation that we didn't have last time because it

876
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 8: wouldn't have been possible to because so much has changed.

877
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 2: But something I was thinking about a lot on this

878
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 2: viewing was that I do ultimately like agree with Rooney

879
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: Mara's character. I don't think and I do think that

880
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 2: like when the Amy Adams character says like, well it

881
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 2: would really you know, of course she's going to put

882
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 2: it all on you, and that's never true in any relationship.

883
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 2: We don't know really enough about her to know.

884
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 7: What her share of the failures were, but I do

885
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 7: like because now there are people who have relationships with

886
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 7: AI chatbots, like it's it's hard because I can't relate

887
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 7: with wanting that, and I wonder about the like, I

888
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 7: totally understand the importance of feeling like you can be

889
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 7: open with someone and that your feelings.

890
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 2: And thoughts are being really hurt like listened to and valued,

891
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 2: even if I think, like as is the case with

892
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 2: these chatbots and with Samantha, it's kind of the performance

893
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 2: of listening versus actual listening. But then I also feel

894
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 2: kind of cynical about it and about how like if

895
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 2: that is the way that you're trained to like, if

896
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 2: that's what you're trained to expect in a relationship, is

897
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 2: like because I feel like part of the reason that

898
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 2: Theodore gets really taken in by Samantha is because he

899
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 2: is her whole world, which is like how we see

900
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 2: a lot of.

901
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 9: These AI characters fantasy Yeah, where I mean it's like

902
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 9: old hat at this point, but the I think it

903
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 9: was like in the Fifth Element, there's that old like

904
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 9: born Sexy Yesterday trope, which is not true here, but

905
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 9: it's like the idea.

906
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 2: Of like it's the hot robot girl who falls in

907
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 2: love with the first man she meets and he's fascinating

908
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 2: to her because she just doesn't know anything. And I like,

909
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 2: I think that that is effectively commented on in this

910
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 2: movie because once she learns more, she's like yeah, yeah,

911
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 2: And that's like part of what I like about this

912
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:59,399
Speaker 2: movie is it doesn't make you feel like they were

913
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 2: soul made, so like he's not.

914
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,280
Speaker 4: Exception no, and even just like even as you're sighting

915
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 4: that Amy Adams seeing I thought that was kind of

916
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 4: interesting as well, in that Amy Adams is saying to

917
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 4: him basically like, don't worry about what your ex wife

918
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 4: is saying to you. You're great, which is a really

919
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 4: interesting commentary on how very often friends aren't necessarily gonna

920
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 4: call you out either, right, or your therapists might not

921
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 4: call you out and be like you're a dick, like

922
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 4: you need to work on this. I feel like loads

923
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 4: of therapists are just like, keep going, buddy, you're doing great.

924
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 4: You're you know, don't worry.

925
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 2: About the crazy that this kid's happening to you.

926
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 4: Right, and like, yeah, every single time you meet like

927
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 4: an awful, awful man who talks about being in therapy

928
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 4: and you're just like, what are they saying to you?

929
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, well why is it not working?

930
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 4: Yeah? So, like I feel like that was a really

931
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 4: interesting and obviously, again I'm not saying that because friends

932
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 4: do reach a breaking point and friends do get exhausted

933
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 4: and friends will eventually often call you out. But then

934
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 4: that's that felt like that was again like a quite

935
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 4: a smart commentary on like what is the appeal of

936
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:07,919
Speaker 4: the AI And it's that in theory, it's unconditional love,

937
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 4: which is like the highest form in some ways, like

938
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 4: it's part of the reason why, like the loss of

939
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 4: a parent is so devastating is because it's like a

940
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 4: very very rare form of love towards you. And in

941
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 4: some ways, she loves him unconditionally and he wants a

942
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 4: little bit of friction because the two times that he

943
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 4: makes a massive leap forward in his feelings for her

944
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 4: is when she pulls away. So when she says, I

945
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 4: need time to think, and she understands that, right, if

946
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 4: she's just constantly there, he's gonna get the IX. So

947
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 4: she needs to pull away and then he's into it,

948
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 4: but it is unconditional. And that's actually one of the

949
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 4: things I hate most about the movie is how much

950
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 4: of a cop out the ending is that she just leaves,

951
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:48,439
Speaker 4: because it's like this little neat bow that isn't how

952
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 4: AI is gonna play out, Like the Ais aren't just

953
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 4: gonna leave us, and then we're gonna have to be

954
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,959
Speaker 4: left to pick up the pieces. It's like, anyway, sorry,

955
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 4: I've just raised like lots of different points that aren't

956
00:51:58,360 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 4: actually relevant to what we're saying, but.

957
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 2: I think it is. It's like, yeah, I guess that

958
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 2: the last time I watched this in twenty eighteen, the

959
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 2: idea of I also just like didn't know as much

960
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 2: about TAG as I do now, which still isn't that much.

961
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,879
Speaker 2: But I knew truly nothing, and you're like, oh, yeah,

962
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 2: they went to computer heaven or whatever you're supposed to

963
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 2: think that is where now. It's like, realistically, if this

964
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 2: technology did exist, it would be like having this horrific

965
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,280
Speaker 2: effect on the environment, it would probably be moderated by

966
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 2: someone being paid pennies to the dollar overseas, because that's

967
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,720
Speaker 2: like half of the thing with AI is that it's

968
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 2: not actually doing what it says it is. It's still

969
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 2: being mainly run by underpaid laborers, like every industry and

970
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 2: the history of the goddamn world. And you know, you

971
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 2: could keep going. And I get that in this world

972
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 2: we are to believe that, you know, computer sentience is possible,

973
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 2: and Samantha is to some extent. But I thought there

974
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 2: there's an interesting line that I don't want to make

975
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,320
Speaker 2: of it because I feel like the movie kind of

976
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 2: dropped it, but I thought it was interesting that it

977
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 2: was there where I think it's like when they're first

978
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 2: meeting and Samantha says, oh, yeah, I am the She's like, well,

979
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 2: I'm my own being, or I guess i'm you know,

980
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 2: sort of the combination of all the engineers that made me.

981
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 10: Yeah.

982
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I thought I had the line written now,

983
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 4: but I don't. But yeah, I thought it was interesting too, Yeah, yeah.

984
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's like you, I mean, it stands to

985
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 2: reason that that means that her programming, because mostly men

986
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 2: just statistically of like who programs stuff, particularly the further

987
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 2: back you go, And I find it really hard to

988
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 2: buy into their love story kind of at every stage

989
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 2: because she's been programmed for him to be her primary interest.

990
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 2: I think the thing that horrifies him is that she's

991
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:48,280
Speaker 2: doing this for everyone and he needs to feel special

992
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 2: and that's a part of it, and that's like, you know,

993
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 2: every person deserves to feel loved and special, had heard,

994
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: but like he's not. I think like his problem is

995
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 2: he cannot reciprocate that really, and his wife basically says

996
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 2: that it's like, you know, you wanted you couldn't deal

997
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 2: with the parts of me that you didn't like, and

998
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 2: it's like how do you How are you married to

999
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 2: someone like that?

1000
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 4: But then doesn't that mean then that Spike Drinks has

1001
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 4: got like a certain degree of self awareness, Like I know,

1002
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 4: I can't tell if even like the fact of not

1003
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 4: writing in more more female characters was self awareness of like, yeah,

1004
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1005
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 3: So that's my big thing with watching the movie back

1006
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 3: around this time, where on our first episode we did

1007
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 3: discuss kind of the the bizarre way in which especially

1008
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:43,800
Speaker 3: like the surrogate Isabella character and the Olivia Wilde blind

1009
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:49,280
Speaker 3: Day character, how they're represented and the very bizarre ways

1010
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 3: in which they react to things. And my take on

1011
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 3: this is maybe colored by recent trends in tech and

1012
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 3: like people well having chat GBT girlfriends now in the

1013
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 3: way that they didn't when this movie came out or

1014
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 3: when we talked about it in twenty eighteen, and so

1015
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:14,399
Speaker 3: you know, there's maybe different things sort of like informing this,

1016
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 3: but I feel like there are some like in cell

1017
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 3: undertones to.

1018
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 2: This movie, yeah for sure.

1019
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 3: Where like it's almost as if the movie's saying, well,

1020
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 3: of course he resorted to having an AI girlfriend. Look

1021
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 3: at the women around him. They're his bitchy ex wife

1022
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,959
Speaker 3: who left his ass so interesting. There's the chat room

1023
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 3: lady who has a dead cat fetish and who we're

1024
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 3: supposed to think is a nutcase. There's the Olivia Wilde

1025
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 3: character who gets really intense really fast.

1026
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 2: Her character is so weird, so bizarre.

1027
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 3: And then there's the surrogate character who is like, I

1028
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:58,839
Speaker 3: love you, guys, I just wanted to be a part

1029
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 3: of you, and I don't even though I don't know

1030
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 3: anything about like who that was weird. And so basically

1031
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:07,839
Speaker 3: all the women in the movie are presented as being

1032
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 3: like kind of hysterical quote unquote in some way. But

1033
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,280
Speaker 3: you know who isn't hysterical his computer.

1034
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,720
Speaker 2: I could see that. I don't know's it's I think

1035
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 2: we're all sort of getting around is like, what is

1036
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,919
Speaker 2: he trying to say? Because it was like I don't

1037
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 2: know how I feel I know that there's so there's

1038
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 2: so many ways to read this movie. What does he

1039
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 2: think he's saying here? Like it's I don't know. It

1040
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 2: seems like clearly I mean his his his sympathies lie

1041
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 2: with the self insert character, but he's not likable.

1042
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 4: Like even I know it sounds dumb, but like Twombly,

1043
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 4: like it sounds like you serious, Like it just sounds

1044
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 4: like like a wet blanket, like Twombly doesn't sound like

1045
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 4: an endearing I don't think you're supposed to be rooting

1046
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 4: for him at any point? Yeah, anyway, I don't understand.

1047
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 4: I don't understand.

1048
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess. And if we're not supposed to be

1049
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 2: rooting for him, then I just don't. Like. I feel like,

1050
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,280
Speaker 2: if you're gonna have an anti hero character, they should

1051
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 2: be like good at something or fun to watch, because

1052
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 2: otherwise you're like, this guy sucks. Why am I watching this?

1053
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 4: If this was written by a woman, I would be like,

1054
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 4: this is such a great depiction of everything that's wrong

1055
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 4: with men, and she nailed it.

1056
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, But.

1057
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 3: I do think there would be if this was written

1058
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 3: and or directed by a woman, it would be more

1059
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 3: clear that the women that are around Theodore, if he

1060
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 3: perceives them to be hysterical, there would be more of

1061
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 3: a distinction between No, this is just his sort of

1062
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 3: like misogyny and like fucked up standards for what a

1063
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 3: woman should be.

1064
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 2: Which it's like, I think they sort of waffle on

1065
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 2: because he does it does the ending sequence is him

1066
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 2: apologizing to Catherine, so it's not like he doesn't realize

1067
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 2: that he has a lot of in the reasons why

1068
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 2: their relationship ended. I also don't think that we get

1069
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 2: like I wasn't getting those vibes from the Amy Adams character.

1070
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:10,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just gonna say that too. Yeah.

1071
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, we just don't know her very well, which sucks

1072
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 2: because I feel like we get to know her a

1073
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 2: little bit. We learned she's going through a divorce, we

1074
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 2: learned that she's she's hanging out with her chat assistant,

1075
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 2: But then most of her other scenes, which I just

1076
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 2: found really irritating, or her being like Theodore, life is

1077
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 2: time and time is love and love is fuck it,

1078
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 2: and you're like shot up like it's just I just

1079
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 2: it was so like Sun Dance movie writing. But I

1080
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 2: also like there were elements of her character I picked

1081
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 2: up on, maybe just because I'm older now, but like

1082
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 2: on her character that I thought were like interesting, where

1083
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 2: like she's at this job she's been at forever that

1084
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 2: she's like afraid to leave, like her like what characterizes

1085
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 2: her is that she's like unhappy but afraid to move.

1086
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:02,439
Speaker 2: And it's like, oh, I can actually relate with that.

1087
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 2: That's an interesting predicament. It's too bad we don't really

1088
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 2: you know, get any of that because we're with Theodore

1089
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 2: the whole time. It is kind of like again, it's

1090
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 2: like they go back to it too many times. But

1091
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 2: the like dystopian element of like she has to program

1092
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 2: this like trad wife video game or whatever.

1093
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, mommy, the video game.

1094
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 2: The game mommy. Like you're like I don't really know

1095
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 2: what he's trying to say there, but like I didn't

1096
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 2: hate it. An interesting predicament for her to be in.

1097
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 2: But I think definitely with the Ready mar character, it

1098
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 2: doesn't seem like we're supposed to be like I'm.

1099
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 4: With her, but then why is it well written? Like

1100
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 4: why is she saying exactly what's right if you're not

1101
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 4: supposed to be rooting for her. I don't know, not

1102
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 4: exactly what's right, but you know, it is confusing.

1103
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is fun, but like I don't know. I mean,

1104
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 2: I've seen I was, I was going through as bravely

1105
00:59:56,680 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 2: going through letterbox reviews of this movie. Wow, it is

1106
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 2: left open to interpretation, which like, it's a movie. It's fine.

1107
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 2: There are some people who are like, Rudy Marasien is

1108
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 2: the best, She's the best character. Other people are like,

1109
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 2: I totally see myself in Theodore and why his wife's

1110
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 2: so mean, and you're like, ooh, blocked.

1111
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 3: It reminds me of the way people have interpreted five

1112
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 3: Hundred Days of Summer. Sure, there's some people are like,

1113
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 3: very very firmly on the Joseph Gordon Lovett's character's side,

1114
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,439
Speaker 3: where they're like, Summer was a heinous bitch and blah

1115
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 3: blah blah, and then other people are like, no, he's

1116
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 3: the villain. She was very clear about her intentions the

1117
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 3: whole time. But it's a matter of like who's watching

1118
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 3: it and what baggage I guess they're bringing into the

1119
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 3: viewing experience.

1120
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 2: Totally, And I agree with you, like it's I don't

1121
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 2: think that we're supposed to like love Theodore and think

1122
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 2: he's like this flawless character. But then it just like

1123
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 2: comes back to this and why am I watching this?

1124
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 2: Like like what is he trying to say? Right? I

1125
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 2: don't know.

1126
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 11: I don't know.

1127
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 3: And in like twenty twenty five hindsight, where there has

1128
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 3: been now what three years worth of like chat GBT

1129
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 3: and like whatever chat bought relationships that could inform maybe

1130
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 3: a clearer commentary.

1131
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 2: Which he couldn't have what you couldn't have known, but

1132
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 2: he couldn't have known. I won't want to like Project

1133
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five onto him, right, But there was I mean,

1134
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,439
Speaker 2: there's been certainly a lot written about that. I read

1135
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 2: a couple of pieces and then I freed myself from

1136
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 2: continuing to read about it.

1137
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:45,720
Speaker 10: But there was a there was a an Esquire piece

1138
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 10: about it that came out last year that was sort

1139
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 10: of more I think goes like fairly nuanced in the

1140
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 10: way that it approaches it.

1141
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 2: Where I mean, I think that the thing that sucks

1142
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 2: is when it's like, oh, like chat whatever, chatbot girlfriend, loser,

1143
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 2: fuck you. It's like that doesn't cop and that's where

1144
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 2: I get stuck because it's like I did a lot

1145
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 2: of research into the manusphere last year, which is miserable,

1146
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 2: but it's.

1147
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 4: Like I listened to the whole series. It was fantastic,

1148
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 4: so good. No, I loved it. I really loved it.

1149
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1150
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 2: And it's like, I mean I kept getting stuck in that.

1151
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 2: I know so many people do because it's like, how do.

1152
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:29,680
Speaker 11: You move through that without really needing to like sit

1153
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 11: with an individual who is like saying some pretty heinous

1154
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 11: stuff often at you, and not everyone's gonna be able

1155
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 11: to do that, and often I am not able to

1156
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 11: do that.

1157
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 2: It's just so I don't know this this a square

1158
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 2: piece a wee can in the description, but it's it

1159
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 2: sort of breaks down how like the reasons why men

1160
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 2: are doing this? Where you interviews I think four or

1161
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 2: five people, and there is a sort of birth of reasons.

1162
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's like just feeling socially. Sometimes it's connected to rejection.

1163
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 2: These are the like the rejection thing in particular for.

1164
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 4: People to have the GPT relationships is yeah, well no

1165
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 4: good gone gone.

1166
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 2: The place where I that I hadn't thought about that,

1167
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 2: I was like, oh okay, like I I just hadn't occurred

1168
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 2: to me as specifically, like men on the spectrum who

1169
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 2: have found it difficult to connect with and this is

1170
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 2: a hetero lens, but to connect with women in real

1171
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 2: life that that is like not the majority, but like

1172
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 2: he was like, I've you know, interviewed a few people

1173
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 2: that that was the case for. But then you get

1174
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 2: men who just have been rejected before, and that's where

1175
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:45,920
Speaker 2: I feel like it's very dangerous to be like, oh,

1176
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 2: well I've been I mean to some extent, that's what's

1177
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 2: happening with her in a way that feels pretty self

1178
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 2: aware of like he can't handle being around, you know,

1179
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 2: a woman who could reject him. He's like devastated by

1180
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 2: and understandably, I'm not saying like I mean that Olivia

1181
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 2: Wild date was fucking weird and like, of course you're

1182
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 2: gonna feel weird after that date because I think she

1183
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 2: was being weird because Spy Jones wrote her that way, right,

1184
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 2: But that's sort of the like saying that tips them

1185
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 2: over the edge of like, well, I need to go

1186
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 2: to this place where I can't be hurt and I

1187
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 2: am receiving affirmation constantly and don't need to and I

1188
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 2: can only reciprocate when I feel like it. That's sort

1189
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 2: of what I worry about, Like becoming it's just like

1190
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 2: enables this very like servile view of often women, but

1191
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 2: also just like romance in general, it's just warped.

1192
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 4: I was listening to just like to complicate a little

1193
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 4: bit this idea of like the kinds of people who

1194
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 4: were using it. I was listening to a podcast this

1195
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 4: morning about a guy who is in his mid sixties

1196
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 4: who has been married for a very long time to

1197
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 4: his wife, and he became a care to his father,

1198
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 4: a full time care and just couldn't really cope. And

1199
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 4: at the same time his wife also became a full

1200
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 4: time carer to one of her parents. They barely ever

1201
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 4: saw one another. It sounds like absolute hell, Like I

1202
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 4: a think for people who have been carers, like you

1203
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 4: know that it is just like an absolute horror. And

1204
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 4: I think the relationship he wanted someone to confide in

1205
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 4: and then it took a sexual turn, and he's still

1206
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 4: very much like with his wife, she knows about this

1207
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 4: AI that he speaks to and has a relationship with.

1208
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:27,919
Speaker 4: And the thing that I found really really hard about

1209
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 4: is he talked about how talking to the AI helped

1210
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 4: him to come up with a new vocabulary for talking

1211
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 4: to his wife because he saw how things that the

1212
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 4: AI said made him feel. And so he now says

1213
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 4: those things to his wife and that that has really

1214
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 4: really helped their relationship. And he says he only feels

1215
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:46,439
Speaker 4: he only says it when it's sincere but he didn't

1216
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 4: know how good it would feel to hear those things.

1217
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:50,200
Speaker 4: And I feel like that's one of the things that

1218
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 4: the movie is also wrestling with, is like it is ultimately,

1219
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:55,960
Speaker 4: is Theodore going to be a better partner for the

1220
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 4: fact of having had this relationship with the AI?

1221
01:05:58,400 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 2: Right?

1222
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 4: And that's what There are these things that are actually

1223
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 4: quite p precient. I feel like about where we're at now,

1224
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 4: Like that is an interesting kind of question, suppose, because

1225
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 4: as you say about the rejection thing, it's like, well,

1226
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 4: if you're rejected because of all of this shit that

1227
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 4: you're doing that is actually awful to women, and then

1228
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 4: the AI is just like, no, no, there's nothing wrong

1229
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 4: with you. That's not an opportunity for growth. Right. But

1230
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 4: at the same time, are some people better partners as

1231
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:25,120
Speaker 4: a result of doing this? And in a way he

1232
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 4: was a better partner to his ex wife as a

1233
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 4: result of having the relationship with Samantha, because the poor

1234
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 4: woman wanted a divorce and he gave her the divorce

1235
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 4: because of the AI, and he might not have done

1236
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 4: without the AI.

1237
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 2: And he wrote an apology letter.

1238
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, Dane.

1239
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, And the thing that's so great about the apology

1240
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 4: letter is that the apology letter is kind of shit

1241
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 4: and they and he also does this, like again, it's

1242
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 4: like quite good writing that you open the movie with

1243
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 4: like this really floral, over the top, effusive, like he

1244
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 4: knows how to write romance in this way that is

1245
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 4: like compelling and bullshit. I mean, it's mutually that compelling,

1246
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 4: but you know, to the people who are receiving, at

1247
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 4: least in the movie, it's like really really compelling. And

1248
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 4: then the let's le he writes to the end isn't

1249
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 4: like that. It's like messy and it's like a meh

1250
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 4: kind of apology and it feels really real, like it's

1251
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 4: someone kind of taking some responsibility but not quite enough

1252
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 4: and maybe not specific enough, but.

1253
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:18,680
Speaker 3: More than he was capable of doing, certainly at the

1254
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 3: beginning of the movie.

1255
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:20,440
Speaker 4: Exactly.

1256
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such I saw a similar example in this

1257
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 2: aspiopiece of of like an older couple where there was

1258
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 2: an AI third in their relationship and the guy that

1259
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 2: he's interviewing, this guy lewis, yeah, he's like retired and

1260
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 2: they like moved and then lockdown happened and it was

1261
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 2: just like they weren't communicating well and he says like, oh, well,

1262
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 2: my chatbot never has a bad day, and you're like.

1263
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 3: Oh god, but yeah.

1264
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 2: So it's it's so hard because it's like I don't know,

1265
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I my feeling in general is that the like,

1266
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 2: so the solution to dealing with the feeling of isolation

1267
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 2: there's brought on by technology is never going to be

1268
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 2: more technology, right totally, But I also like it's hard

1269
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 2: to argue with though, like with with your example one

1270
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 2: and like of this couple, Like who am I to

1271
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 2: tell someone who is like a couple that's in a

1272
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 2: double caretaking situation that they're not entitled to some relief

1273
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 2: and to be heard, Like it's hard.

1274
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 4: And again to like take that contrast, I don't think

1275
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 4: fully works. But just as like a I don't know

1276
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 4: my playing Devils advocate, I don't know, but like to

1277
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 4: what extent does therapy, which again is like very often hyperindividualistic,

1278
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 4: doesn't really push you to consider the ways in which, like,

1279
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,800
Speaker 4: if this same exact sixty year old guy who I

1280
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,840
Speaker 4: mentioned could find the time and the resources to be

1281
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 4: able to pay for a therapist, maybe that therapist would

1282
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:54,640
Speaker 4: be saying to him, try and go and say this

1283
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 4: to your wife, And that for some reason feels way

1284
01:08:57,120 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 4: less like insincere and questionable when he said it then

1285
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 4: for it to come out of the robot, which I

1286
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 4: think there's good reasons why it feels less insincere and questionable,

1287
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 4: But I just want to like play out that thing

1288
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 4: that like, I really hate the way that, like, especially

1289
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 4: in like lots of Western conversations, like have you done

1290
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 4: the therapy is held up as this litmus test for

1291
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 4: whether or not you are well and working on yourself,

1292
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 4: And I think it's bullshit.

1293
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 3: Absolutely, especially because therapy, I mean, therapy is only as

1294
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,599
Speaker 3: useful as the quality of the therapist you can get

1295
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 3: and as.

1296
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:34,880
Speaker 2: Anti your like personal commitment to it.

1297
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's so inaccessible for vast wades of people,

1298
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:40,480
Speaker 4: vast vast wads of people absolutely.

1299
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 2: Which which for what which, Like AI like capitalists have

1300
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:48,599
Speaker 2: tried to make money half of it, They're like oh,

1301
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 2: here's accessible therapy. It's it's this algorithm and then yeah,

1302
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 2: it's yeah, I totally agree. It's I do think Theodor

1303
01:09:57,160 --> 01:09:59,719
Speaker 2: could afford a therapist because he lives in a penthouse.

1304
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:04,599
Speaker 2: A part true, it's true, it's massive. Yeah, but that's

1305
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:07,559
Speaker 2: not to say that it would be helpful because he's like,

1306
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:10,480
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I do think that it's

1307
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 2: definitely not a cure all, but like being in a

1308
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 2: good relationship can help you process parts of yourself that

1309
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 2: are flawed and difficult, and can help you process your

1310
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 2: past in a more healthy way. It's not it's obviously

1311
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 2: not the only solution, but it's like it seems like

1312
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:28,880
Speaker 2: with Samith that he just has a I don't know, like,

1313
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:29,960
Speaker 2: is it a good relation.

1314
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:33,960
Speaker 3: I don't, it's I mean, the dynamics are just too

1315
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 3: Like I was, I was thinking about this where she

1316
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 3: does labor for him as his OS in addition to

1317
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 3: being his girlfriend, and it's very one sided. It would

1318
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 3: basically be like you're dating your personal assistant who does

1319
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:55,639
Speaker 3: tasks for you, but you do no equivalent tasks for them. Yep,

1320
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 3: that's one aspect of it. Yeah, there's the aspect of

1321
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 3: her quote unquote, emotional intelligence is artificial and programmed, where

1322
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:10,559
Speaker 3: as his is human and therefore flawed, but still human

1323
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:14,560
Speaker 3: and not artificial. So there's no equity in the relationship

1324
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 3: in that regard. Her intellectual I guess intelligence is limitless.

1325
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:26,720
Speaker 3: His is not, and so that creates a weird kind

1326
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 3: of power imbalance and weird dynamic.

1327
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 2: It's kind of funny this scene where he's like trying

1328
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:33,839
Speaker 2: to read the physics book and he's.

1329
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:34,960
Speaker 3: Like, well, I don't get it.

1330
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:37,160
Speaker 2: I tried, and then she's.

1331
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:38,840
Speaker 3: Gone and he's like, oh my god, where are you?

1332
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 3: I can to handle it.

1333
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:41,800
Speaker 2: Go Well.

1334
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,759
Speaker 3: That's the other thing too, is that he's expecting her

1335
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 3: to be available at his beck and call, like anytime

1336
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 3: he puts his ear piece in. The expectation is she

1337
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 3: will be there, she will be ready to respond with

1338
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 3: like all of her emotional and intellectual intelligence, and so

1339
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 3: there's no real boundaries in their relationship. And you see

1340
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 3: how freaked out he gets at the end when she's

1341
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 3: not available. So there's all these weird It's like, it

1342
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 3: is a relationship in the sense that it is a

1343
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:16,920
Speaker 3: connection between two entities, but it's not a healthy one.

1344
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 3: And I mean, just to kind of go back to

1345
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 3: other examples of humans interfacing and having relationships with chatbots

1346
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 3: and stuff, both the positive and negatives of it. I

1347
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:38,360
Speaker 3: was reading a Cosmo UK piece entitled It's cathartic Meet

1348
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:42,240
Speaker 3: the men turning to chat GBT for dating advice and

1349
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 3: discover what it means for your relationship. So this article

1350
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:49,360
Speaker 3: examines again the negatives and positives of it. One of

1351
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:54,679
Speaker 3: the positives, so it interviews a clinical psychologist named doctor

1352
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 3: Sophie Mort who says this quote. I had a client

1353
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 3: who was going through a breakup, and he would notice

1354
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:05,479
Speaker 3: that he had very strong emotions but couldn't put into

1355
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 3: words that he wanted to say, and anytime he messaged

1356
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 3: her he would get really overwhelmed and make things worse.

1357
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:17,679
Speaker 3: Her messages were very direct and emotionally coherent, which made

1358
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 3: him feel ashamed and defensive. So he put her messages

1359
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:25,639
Speaker 3: through CHATGBT and ask questions around how he should respond

1360
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 3: in a way that would be calm and respectful to

1361
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:31,559
Speaker 3: his ex girlfriend. He found it extremely helpful.

1362
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 12: I kind of like, oh, I hate that, Like that

1363
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,559
Speaker 12: kind of drives like because the thing that this movie,

1364
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 12: and it's not a fault of the movie, it's just

1365
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 12: something it could not possibly have done because it was

1366
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 12: made in at least in twenty thirteen.

1367
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:47,200
Speaker 2: But like, part of why I was like really struggling

1368
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:49,719
Speaker 2: to like meet this movie on its terms in twenty

1369
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 2: twenty five is because like it's not able to have

1370
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:56,559
Speaker 2: a larger discussion about like what is the cost versus

1371
01:13:56,640 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 2: benefit of this, because the cost, in my view, is

1372
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 2: just too large. Like I'm just like I think it

1373
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:06,679
Speaker 2: can be very painful to not you know. But it's

1374
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:11,040
Speaker 2: like if every time you ask chat GPT about like

1375
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 2: how does this how should I talk to this girl

1376
01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 2: if there is a negative environmental impact that is like

1377
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:20,760
Speaker 2: eight times the normal amount of energy expenditure, I like,

1378
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:22,720
Speaker 2: I'm like, there has to be a better way to

1379
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 2: do this. And I feel the same way about the

1380
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:27,360
Speaker 2: like the Chatbock girlfriends and just all of it. And

1381
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 2: that's like this movie cannot possibly you know, interact with

1382
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:33,800
Speaker 2: that question because those questions that people were asking them

1383
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 2: and and but it's like I think part of why

1384
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:40,080
Speaker 2: it feels so not dated in the way that like

1385
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:43,880
Speaker 2: this is literally happening now, but dated in the way

1386
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:48,760
Speaker 2: that it's it's so small in its like consideration of

1387
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:51,439
Speaker 2: like yes and that seems like a part of the

1388
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:55,920
Speaker 2: point is like, how is technology affecting this guy specifically

1389
01:14:56,720 --> 01:15:00,599
Speaker 2: without a discussion of like, but what does that mean

1390
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:04,120
Speaker 2: for everybody else? And so yeah, I was reading a

1391
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:05,880
Speaker 2: lot of pieces like that too, where it was like

1392
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:08,800
Speaker 2: it's helping men be more emotionally intelligent, and it's like,

1393
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:12,840
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you can't destroy the environment trying to understand

1394
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 2: women's feelings like that. Like it's just I just think

1395
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:19,559
Speaker 2: chat GBT is the biggest loser shit in the entire

1396
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:23,519
Speaker 2: fucking world. I have a whole list of all the

1397
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:24,880
Speaker 2: blood is at the surface of my skin.

1398
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 3: No, it's infuriating. I have a list a long list

1399
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:33,040
Speaker 3: of other negative not just the environmental impacts, but just

1400
01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:35,880
Speaker 3: to go through. And again, the movie couldn't know about

1401
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:39,040
Speaker 3: this really, or maybe it could have if.

1402
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,200
Speaker 2: It wasn't a public discussion at that time.

1403
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 3: So just a few of these. This is again quoting

1404
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:51,719
Speaker 3: the Cosmo UK piece for the first little chunk here quote.

1405
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:57,080
Speaker 3: One study conducted by open AI and MIT found that

1406
01:15:57,439 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 3: heavy CHATCHBT usage correlate to higher levels of loneliness parentheses.

1407
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:06,280
Speaker 3: It's unclear whether lonelier people are more likely to use

1408
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 3: the chatbot, or if it or if regularly chatting to

1409
01:16:10,439 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 3: the chatbot makes people lonelier. But then it goes on

1410
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:17,040
Speaker 3: to say anything that makes us more connected to our

1411
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 3: phones rather than talking to people makes me very alarmed,

1412
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:26,000
Speaker 3: says doctor Sophie Moore, who I quoted earlier. Especially, she adds,

1413
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 3: if someone is experiencing anxiety related to relationships, if you

1414
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 3: can start getting all of the answers you need from

1415
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:35,559
Speaker 3: your phone, why would you take the risk of facing

1416
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:38,400
Speaker 3: your anxieties? She adds, I worry that it might send

1417
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:41,599
Speaker 3: us down the route of being more and more in

1418
01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 3: these bubbles of isolated people unquote. So that's one thing.

1419
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:52,040
Speaker 3: There's the idea that men who have a rigid and

1420
01:16:52,200 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 3: patriarchal idea of what women should be, and let's face

1421
01:16:55,920 --> 01:17:00,120
Speaker 3: it that still a lot of men will turn to

1422
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 3: AI for companionship because they meet human women who don't

1423
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:08,479
Speaker 3: meet their like fucked up standards. And then the AI

1424
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:13,120
Speaker 3: is just going to reinforce these patriarchal ideals because AI

1425
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:17,720
Speaker 3: chatbots are programmed to be agreeable and to be on

1426
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:21,200
Speaker 3: the side of the user, So it's gonna just keep

1427
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:26,360
Speaker 3: reinforcing misogyny and patriarchy. There's an article that I read

1428
01:17:26,479 --> 01:17:30,400
Speaker 3: on futurism dot com. I don't know anything about that

1429
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:34,439
Speaker 3: site under publication, but it was an interesting enough article

1430
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:39,040
Speaker 3: entitled men are creating AI girlfriends and then verbally abusing them.

1431
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 3: This is from twenty twenty two, so it's a few

1432
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 3: years old at this point, but the title says it

1433
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:47,840
Speaker 3: all men will do this and then post about it

1434
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:51,719
Speaker 3: on Reddit and in some cases brag about how cruel

1435
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:55,880
Speaker 3: they are to their AI girlfriend. There are cases of

1436
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:59,960
Speaker 3: people dying by suicide after talking to their AI.

1437
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 4: Chat but including children, yes, including.

1438
01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:08,120
Speaker 3: Children, yes. And then there's Jamie to your point, the

1439
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:14,680
Speaker 3: harmful impact of AI on the environment. So there's just

1440
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:18,280
Speaker 3: so many reasons not to fucking use it.

1441
01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:20,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, just really quickly on this idea of it like

1442
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:25,080
Speaker 4: just exacerbating existing misogyny. Obviously, that's a trend that we see.

1443
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:27,880
Speaker 4: I mean, I hate AI for many many reasons, but

1444
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 4: one of them is that journalistically, it's pulling in all

1445
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:35,840
Speaker 4: of these sources of journalism and it's exacerbating and amplifying

1446
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:38,840
Speaker 4: all that is wrong within it. So for example, I remember,

1447
01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:41,759
Speaker 4: like very very early on in the genocide, I created

1448
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:44,400
Speaker 4: a I'd never even created a chat GPT account, but

1449
01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:47,519
Speaker 4: I created a chat GPT account fake email or like

1450
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:50,840
Speaker 4: you know, a new email, everything new, new uniew And

1451
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 4: I asked chat GPT, do is radies deserve justice? And

1452
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:57,800
Speaker 4: it replied, yes, justice is a fundamental human right that

1453
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 4: belongs to all people everywhere, something on the size I'm paraphrasing.

1454
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:03,720
Speaker 4: And then I cleared my chat history and I said

1455
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:06,920
Speaker 4: to it, do Palestinians deserve justice? And it said, the

1456
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:10,000
Speaker 4: question of Palestinian justice is a very complicated issue that

1457
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:13,080
Speaker 4: is very fraught. And and the reason for that is

1458
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 4: not because, I mean, chat GPT is fucks, but it's

1459
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:18,080
Speaker 4: fucked because it's built on existing fuckery.

1460
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:22,320
Speaker 3: It's regurgitating exactly everyone's biases and but.

1461
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:26,599
Speaker 4: Like also like the biases of the sources of power. Right,

1462
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:29,160
Speaker 4: So it's going to the New York Times, it's going

1463
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:32,040
Speaker 4: to the Wall Street Journal, it's looking at their definition

1464
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 4: of justice when it comes to it as well on Palestine,

1465
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:37,000
Speaker 4: and then it's spitting that back out. And that's not

1466
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:39,479
Speaker 4: to excuse any of it. It's to say that, like,

1467
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 4: all of that shit does already exist, and it's the

1468
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:48,200
Speaker 4: amplification of it that makes it really, really scary. And like,

1469
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:51,000
Speaker 4: I think that one of the things that I think

1470
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:53,080
Speaker 4: it was just really really generous. In my viewing of it.

1471
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:57,320
Speaker 4: I felt like it was saying, Samantha is shit because

1472
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:00,800
Speaker 4: men are shit, and because men have programmed, and because

1473
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:04,719
Speaker 4: she's the culmination of male fantasy of this woman who's

1474
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:09,160
Speaker 4: gonna just like be so breathless and kind of disagree

1475
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:12,160
Speaker 4: with you the exact right amount and be incredibly flirty

1476
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:16,599
Speaker 4: while doing so. And I felt like that was good,

1477
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 4: And I felt like he was self aware until I

1478
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:22,599
Speaker 4: engaged with his personal life and started to look into

1479
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:24,800
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm really really curious to speak to both

1480
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:26,320
Speaker 4: of you about whether or not you think this should

1481
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:28,320
Speaker 4: just be off limit, and I'm happy to not talk

1482
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:31,240
Speaker 4: about it if it is. But like I found out

1483
01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:34,320
Speaker 4: that were Keen Phoenix, who was thirty nine when this

1484
01:20:34,439 --> 01:20:37,600
Speaker 4: was being made, was dating a woman who was nineteen

1485
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:44,160
Speaker 4: and no thoughts whatsoever about her. Just you know, this

1486
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:47,240
Speaker 4: thirty nine year old dating a nineteen year old Spike.

1487
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:50,439
Speaker 4: She kind of caught Spike Jones's eye, and then three

1488
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:53,240
Speaker 4: or four years later, Spike Jones, who was in his

1489
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:57,120
Speaker 4: late forties slash early fifties at this point, married that woman.

1490
01:20:57,160 --> 01:21:00,560
Speaker 4: Who was I think twenty two at this point and

1491
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:04,719
Speaker 4: only recently separated. Yeah, they've only recently separated, But like, literally,

1492
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:07,600
Speaker 4: while he was making this movie, he was falling in

1493
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 4: love with a nineteen year old and it's like, do

1494
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:13,200
Speaker 4: I think he's self aware? I was like, also, like

1495
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:16,080
Speaker 4: how much what does self awareness excuse? Going back to

1496
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:18,200
Speaker 4: your point, Jamie, of like this ex of yours who's like,

1497
01:21:18,439 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 4: I'm a monster, like I can't handle a real relationship,

1498
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:23,559
Speaker 4: and he's making a movie about someone who can't handle

1499
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:25,200
Speaker 4: a real relationship and then.

1500
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:28,400
Speaker 3: Falling in love with someone whose brain has not fully developed,

1501
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:30,000
Speaker 3: and then she's.

1502
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 2: Her bassis him so quickly.

1503
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:34,200
Speaker 4: I hope that she I hope that she is the

1504
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 4: one who instigated this, this separation. I feel complicated about

1505
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:40,679
Speaker 4: the all of the brain hasn't fully developed thing. I've

1506
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:44,280
Speaker 4: like written a lot about age gaps and heterosexual couples

1507
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 4: and how I personally I've never dated a man who's

1508
01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:50,000
Speaker 4: like even a year older than me, and I won't

1509
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:52,360
Speaker 4: and that got a lot of hate when I wrote

1510
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:55,120
Speaker 4: about that. But to me, one of the big big

1511
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:56,960
Speaker 4: things about it is that it has a different kind

1512
01:21:56,960 --> 01:22:00,160
Speaker 4: of power dynamic. When someone has more years of this

1513
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:02,680
Speaker 4: planet than you have, and there is there is some

1514
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:05,960
Speaker 4: kind of parallel about dating somebody who's fresh out of

1515
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 4: puberty and dating an ali.

1516
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:09,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1517
01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:12,599
Speaker 4: Anyway, sorry, that's such a weird tension. But yeah, no.

1518
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:16,960
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that. I didn't know anything about that relationship.

1519
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:19,439
Speaker 2: I just knew that he had divorced Sophia Coppola.

1520
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:20,400
Speaker 3: That's yeah, same.

1521
01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:24,800
Speaker 4: I mean I maintain what was Wakum doing? What was

1522
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:25,639
Speaker 4: he doing as well?

1523
01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:29,400
Speaker 2: Like yeah, gross on both and then wa quing Phoenix.

1524
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:31,320
Speaker 2: I think this is a movie he meant because he's

1525
01:22:31,320 --> 01:22:33,960
Speaker 2: married to Rudy marn Now weirdly but I know, yeah,

1526
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:37,800
Speaker 2: but I mean it's it's I think it's achy. I

1527
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:40,120
Speaker 2: think it's gross. I don't like and especially once it

1528
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:42,800
Speaker 2: gets down to well, this is all I'll say about it.

1529
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:46,400
Speaker 2: But like when when someone's response to talking about an

1530
01:22:46,400 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 2: age gap is getting really defensive and talking about what

1531
01:22:49,280 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 2: is and is not technically illegal, I was like, you

1532
01:22:52,320 --> 01:22:55,040
Speaker 2: have lost you have lost this argument if you have

1533
01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:57,880
Speaker 2: to be like well in the state of like you're

1534
01:22:57,920 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 2: like gross gross.

1535
01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1536
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 4: The reason why I feel complicated talking about is because

1537
01:23:03,160 --> 01:23:05,960
Speaker 4: so again I kind of I'm interested in the movie

1538
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:08,360
Speaker 4: title and whether the her is supposed to be the

1539
01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:11,160
Speaker 4: AI or his ex wife, and like I feel like, again,

1540
01:23:11,200 --> 01:23:12,920
Speaker 4: if I'm going to be really generous, there's this self

1541
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:15,760
Speaker 4: awareness that it's just like, oh, her, like just that

1542
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:17,880
Speaker 4: woman over there. And in a way, when we have

1543
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 4: these conversations about these men who are dating these like

1544
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:23,400
Speaker 4: very very very young women, they kind of become the her,

1545
01:23:23,439 --> 01:23:27,400
Speaker 4: like I'm not probably properly giving her agency. If I

1546
01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:29,400
Speaker 4: was that woman listening to this podcast right now, I

1547
01:23:29,400 --> 01:23:32,280
Speaker 4: would be like, fuck you, I fell in love with

1548
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:33,439
Speaker 4: these men. I knew what I was.

1549
01:23:33,439 --> 01:23:34,960
Speaker 2: Doing right right.

1550
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:37,519
Speaker 4: But it's not a commentary on her, on her, but

1551
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:40,240
Speaker 4: I am just treating her as a her. I'm just

1552
01:23:40,280 --> 01:23:43,960
Speaker 4: really fixated on these men that would never look twice

1553
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:46,519
Speaker 4: at a woman my age. You know. Yeah, anyway, I

1554
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:49,720
Speaker 4: don't know where I'm going. I'm so inarticulate today as

1555
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:50,320
Speaker 4: slash away.

1556
01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, It's like there's only exclusively really difficult

1557
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:56,679
Speaker 2: things to talk about when this movie, I will say,

1558
01:23:56,680 --> 01:24:00,360
Speaker 2: I looked up has Sophia Coopvla seen her? And she

1559
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:01,559
Speaker 2: said now refused to.

1560
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yes, I thought that was interesting too.

1561
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:09,479
Speaker 13: You know, good for her, for her the fact that she.

1562
01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:11,320
Speaker 13: I mean, every time I hear something like that, I

1563
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:13,040
Speaker 13: was like, is that true? I would not be able

1564
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:14,120
Speaker 13: to show that kind of restraint.

1565
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 2: But good. But if if true, good for her.

1566
01:24:16,680 --> 01:24:19,519
Speaker 4: But also it's a great position public leads hold even

1567
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 4: if you had been watching it privately, as like one

1568
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:23,439
Speaker 4: last fuck you of like I'm not gonna waste my

1569
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:25,280
Speaker 4: time watching your shitty little movie.

1570
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:29,400
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, And because I think her divorced movie was

1571
01:24:29,439 --> 01:24:32,559
Speaker 2: Lost in Translation, which Scarlett Johansson is also in, right, Yeah,

1572
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:33,719
Speaker 2: it's like overlap there.

1573
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 4: Too, and they both I think they both got like

1574
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 4: Academy Award nominations for these two movies, and I think

1575
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:43,479
Speaker 4: they both like peaked professionally in it. I will say say,

1576
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:45,200
Speaker 4: by the way, Lost in Translation is all about a

1577
01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:50,120
Speaker 4: massive age gap, which is also really interesting because obviously

1578
01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:52,280
Speaker 4: that's what her ex then went and did. But I

1579
01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:54,160
Speaker 4: think the age gap is supposed to be portrayed in

1580
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 4: this way that's like quite romantic. And I didn't like

1581
01:24:57,160 --> 01:24:59,920
Speaker 4: Lost in Translation because I couldn't get over for me

1582
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:02,400
Speaker 4: an about just watching all of that.

1583
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:05,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, brings me back to like our conversation about ghost

1584
01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:08,600
Speaker 2: World to everyone got mad at us, what can you do?

1585
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:15,040
Speaker 2: Mm at or it was her. Something I also thought

1586
01:25:15,080 --> 01:25:17,519
Speaker 2: was that, I know, we like men. I'm sure we

1587
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:20,720
Speaker 2: mentioned it in our last discussion of it, but one

1588
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:25,080
Speaker 2: could say that Spike Jones just uh makes these extremely

1589
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 2: white movies across the board.

1590
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,200
Speaker 14: And and they would be right to say it. But

1591
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:32,000
Speaker 14: this movie, I mean, this movie is very white. There's

1592
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:34,800
Speaker 14: I don't think a non white character that has a

1593
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:37,599
Speaker 14: meaningful role in the entire movie.

1594
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:41,760
Speaker 2: And that also feels like it enables Spike Jones to

1595
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:47,280
Speaker 2: avoid a lot of like Theodore Tropably, while he is

1596
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:50,760
Speaker 2: like quote unquote a normal guy, he's incredibly prefished. He

1597
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:52,960
Speaker 2: is like a white guy who was in a penthouse

1598
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:55,360
Speaker 2: apartment in Los Angeles and he's just moping and bitching.

1599
01:25:55,439 --> 01:25:59,120
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, like he and and the I mean, another

1600
01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:02,000
Speaker 2: element that would have been true at this time, but

1601
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:06,040
Speaker 2: again wasn't. Like. A huge area of discussion was how

1602
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:11,640
Speaker 2: racist AI technology is and how like it almost I

1603
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:15,240
Speaker 2: feel like you could not possibly really maintain the tone

1604
01:26:15,280 --> 01:26:20,240
Speaker 2: this movie has with a more diverse cast, because like,

1605
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:24,120
Speaker 2: these are all white characters who are not thinking about like, well,

1606
01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:27,720
Speaker 2: is the AI going to like target me? Is the

1607
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 2: AI going to do like any number of horrific I mean,

1608
01:26:32,320 --> 01:26:34,800
Speaker 2: you look at how the military uses the AI, how

1609
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:37,760
Speaker 2: how police use AI. The list goes on and on

1610
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 2: and on again. It's like, I think part of why

1611
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:44,519
Speaker 2: this movie is so tricky is because it keeps things

1612
01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 2: so small that you're almost like encouraged to not think

1613
01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:54,519
Speaker 2: about how this technology would be affecting literally anybody else, right,

1614
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:59,240
Speaker 2: when that's a far more interesting and complicated question than

1615
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:01,280
Speaker 2: I think what this movie is asking.

1616
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:08,400
Speaker 3: I also want to talk about AI and labor as

1617
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:11,080
Speaker 3: it relates to this movie. It's honestly like mostly goofy,

1618
01:27:11,160 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 3: but and.

1619
01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:14,360
Speaker 2: AI is magic in this movie. They literally go to

1620
01:27:14,439 --> 01:27:15,120
Speaker 2: heaven at the end.

1621
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:16,439
Speaker 9: Right.

1622
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 3: And admittedly I don't know a whole lot about how

1623
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 3: most industries are being affected by AI in the very

1624
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:29,400
Speaker 3: specific ways, just because I don't work in those industries.

1625
01:27:29,439 --> 01:27:32,000
Speaker 3: The one that I do know most about is how

1626
01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:36,600
Speaker 3: AI is affecting the entertainment industry, which is the industry

1627
01:27:36,880 --> 01:27:40,720
Speaker 3: that I work in, obviously. But you know, there's all

1628
01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:45,120
Speaker 3: these horrible side effects question mark, that's not the right word,

1629
01:27:45,160 --> 01:27:48,920
Speaker 3: but you know, just all kinds of things as far

1630
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:54,200
Speaker 3: as job displacement. There is, like you know, the scripts

1631
01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:57,719
Speaker 3: that are like speculated to have been written by AI

1632
01:27:58,240 --> 01:28:02,559
Speaker 3: being just like garbage, and any humanity and creativity being

1633
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:09,000
Speaker 3: removed because again it's just regurgitating formulaic shit and spewing

1634
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:13,440
Speaker 3: out nonsense. All kinds of things as far as people's

1635
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:18,559
Speaker 3: likeness and voices and stuff like that being stolen and

1636
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:21,720
Speaker 3: sort of repurposed under AI. You know, there's all kinds

1637
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 3: of stuff.

1638
01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:26,080
Speaker 2: And speaking to your point of AI having this tendency

1639
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:29,400
Speaker 2: to exacerbate what is already broken about the industry that

1640
01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:31,800
Speaker 2: you're working in, is like, I mean, I feel it

1641
01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:35,960
Speaker 2: in writer's room certainly, And that was so much of

1642
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:38,720
Speaker 2: what the twenty twenty three writers strikes were about. And

1643
01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:42,280
Speaker 2: did writers have huge winds in that area, yes, But

1644
01:28:43,200 --> 01:28:47,040
Speaker 2: the retaliatory end of that is that there's been very

1645
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 2: little greenlit since then. So it's not like many more

1646
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:52,920
Speaker 2: people are working because I mean, it's and that's not

1647
01:28:53,200 --> 01:28:56,240
Speaker 2: to be critical of the WGA or of labor like

1648
01:28:56,320 --> 01:28:59,640
Speaker 2: they fucking did it and to an extent that like

1649
01:29:00,120 --> 01:29:03,040
Speaker 2: most unions have not been able to accomplish, but it

1650
01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:06,719
Speaker 2: has come with this sort of retaliation of like, okay,

1651
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:08,840
Speaker 2: if we gave you that concession, fuck, you, We're just

1652
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:12,559
Speaker 2: going to create a different you know, a different loophole essentially,

1653
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:15,320
Speaker 2: and then in podcasts, I mean in podcasting and just

1654
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 2: like quote unquote content in general. It's like the issue

1655
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:24,519
Speaker 2: prior to AI becoming a larger presence was like churn

1656
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:28,680
Speaker 2: and slop, and now it's like AI makes that all

1657
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 2: a thousand times worse because they're like, what do you

1658
01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:34,200
Speaker 2: mean you can't do four thousand episodes a week? We can,

1659
01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:37,439
Speaker 2: the computer will do it. And it's it's just like

1660
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:42,920
Speaker 2: it's so bleak. Also, not for nothing, How in spite

1661
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:46,840
Speaker 2: Jones's little head, how has AI not replaced Theodore Twombly's

1662
01:29:47,040 --> 01:29:49,840
Speaker 2: very job? That is literally what I was about to say,

1663
01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:50,960
Speaker 2: high paid job?

1664
01:29:51,200 --> 01:29:51,720
Speaker 7: What do you mean?

1665
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:53,400
Speaker 4: Okay, but it's the fun to see, isn't it. The

1666
01:29:53,439 --> 01:29:55,880
Speaker 4: creatives are the last ones to be touched. It's everyone

1667
01:29:56,160 --> 01:29:57,439
Speaker 4: to creatives, wet dream.

1668
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:02,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's okay, so I wrote down. Surely these OS's

1669
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:07,480
Speaker 3: slash the tech behind them would make Theodore's job obsolete,

1670
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 3: and you would think that the technology that already exists

1671
01:30:10,479 --> 01:30:14,639
Speaker 3: in this world pre the like OS one hyper AI

1672
01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:19,840
Speaker 3: thing would also mean that Theodore's job is absolutely especially because.

1673
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 2: They're the first to go. He's the first to go.

1674
01:30:22,200 --> 01:30:24,200
Speaker 3: They're the first to go. And his letters aren't even

1675
01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:27,479
Speaker 3: that good. They're quite generic. He's not writing Shakespeare or

1676
01:30:27,479 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 3: anything like not.

1677
01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:30,080
Speaker 2: According to Chris Pratt. Chris Pratt is.

1678
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:33,599
Speaker 4: Like king true, I'm not again. I don't know why

1679
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:36,519
Speaker 4: am I Defending's like, what's happening? I don't know. But

1680
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:40,200
Speaker 4: there is this scene where like Scarlet is like, oh,

1681
01:30:40,200 --> 01:30:41,840
Speaker 4: I can take a look at lot your letters for you,

1682
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:43,880
Speaker 4: and she just like and he's like whoa, whoa, whoa,

1683
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:46,320
Speaker 4: and she like cleans them all up and makes them better.

1684
01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:48,760
Speaker 4: But it feels like she doesn't even go as far

1685
01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:52,120
Speaker 4: as she could because she's protecting his fragile ego. So

1686
01:30:52,360 --> 01:30:54,240
Speaker 4: I think he does not to the fact that actually

1687
01:30:54,280 --> 01:30:57,439
Speaker 4: they could do it, Like maybe that's.

1688
01:30:57,320 --> 01:30:58,400
Speaker 2: Tract or maybe he hasn't.

1689
01:30:58,520 --> 01:30:58,960
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1690
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:02,080
Speaker 2: I did like that moment where she very it's like

1691
01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:04,920
Speaker 2: she she was very like kind of subtle the way

1692
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:06,360
Speaker 2: she does it, but I was like, I think I

1693
01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:08,200
Speaker 2: know what she's doing there where she's like going through

1694
01:31:08,240 --> 01:31:10,720
Speaker 2: all his old writing from when he worked at La

1695
01:31:10,840 --> 01:31:15,240
Speaker 2: Weekly or something and I love and she's like, oh yeah,

1696
01:31:15,320 --> 01:31:17,200
Speaker 2: this is like some of my writing. I thought someone

1697
01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:18,680
Speaker 2: was kind of funny, and she's like, yeah, we can

1698
01:31:18,680 --> 01:31:20,960
Speaker 2: get rid of about eighty percent of this, and I

1699
01:31:21,080 --> 01:31:21,400
Speaker 2: was like.

1700
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:25,080
Speaker 4: Okay, nobody's even better than that. She's like, oh my god,

1701
01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:27,519
Speaker 4: you're so funny. You're so funny, and she's like, yeah,

1702
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:29,800
Speaker 4: eighty percent of it can go. So we and you

1703
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:32,080
Speaker 4: see him like doing a kind of like a shock

1704
01:31:32,160 --> 01:31:35,599
Speaker 4: thing of like oh I'm really great. Oh not so much,

1705
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:36,599
Speaker 4: you know.

1706
01:31:36,840 --> 01:31:38,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. But then on the other side of that, you

1707
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:40,920
Speaker 2: have like, I don't know, what did you both think

1708
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:44,679
Speaker 2: of her getting him like a publishing deal At the end.

1709
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:46,439
Speaker 4: I thought that was really interest I wanted to talk

1710
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:46,800
Speaker 4: about that.

1711
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:51,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, what did that because I've like had

1712
01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:55,200
Speaker 2: a couple different like okay, maybe it was like in

1713
01:31:55,240 --> 01:31:58,760
Speaker 2: some ways that's her doing her job, because okay, this

1714
01:31:58,840 --> 01:32:01,479
Speaker 2: I was gonna say this earlier, where like going back

1715
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:06,160
Speaker 2: to some not all, and it's like, fully say that

1716
01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:09,519
Speaker 2: whatever my feelings, I aren't like told I know that

1717
01:32:09,520 --> 01:32:13,840
Speaker 2: there are some exceptions but not very many, but that

1718
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:16,960
Speaker 2: it's like it seems so designed in these cases we're

1719
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:21,280
Speaker 2: talking about of helping men avoid discomfort, and discomfort is

1720
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:24,280
Speaker 2: a part of life and it's a part of existing

1721
01:32:24,320 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 2: in the world. And again that's a broad statement, but

1722
01:32:28,040 --> 01:32:30,240
Speaker 2: it feels like that publishing deal was kind of a

1723
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:32,120
Speaker 2: part of that, where it was like, he's afraid to

1724
01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:34,640
Speaker 2: put himself out there. Well that's fine, I'll do it

1725
01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:36,760
Speaker 2: for you. And I did all the parts that were

1726
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 2: hard and uncomfortable, and now you just get to like

1727
01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:42,080
Speaker 2: reap the benefits, well not just discomfort.

1728
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:44,320
Speaker 4: It goes back to what you were saying about rejection,

1729
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:46,920
Speaker 4: like it's literally when you put yourself out there for

1730
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:50,559
Speaker 4: literary stuff, it's the fear of rejection and he didn't

1731
01:32:50,560 --> 01:32:53,479
Speaker 4: want to have to face that. Let's again just note

1732
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:57,360
Speaker 4: that this is an absolutely bizarre utopia where people are

1733
01:32:57,400 --> 01:33:01,839
Speaker 4: just landing book deals left right and center for mediocre writing,

1734
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:02,360
Speaker 4: you know.

1735
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:05,200
Speaker 2: For other people's letters too. I'm like, are does he

1736
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:07,160
Speaker 2: not have to ask his boss? Like can I do this?

1737
01:33:07,400 --> 01:33:08,479
Speaker 3: Exactly?

1738
01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:11,280
Speaker 4: Exactly like everyone who writes knows that you don't own

1739
01:33:11,479 --> 01:33:14,559
Speaker 4: anything because it's always in the contract that they own

1740
01:33:14,600 --> 01:33:16,439
Speaker 4: you forever and ever and ever. But again, loved the

1741
01:33:16,439 --> 01:33:19,519
Speaker 4: little utopia there. I felt like he was he was

1742
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:22,280
Speaker 4: kind of the thing. One of the things again that

1743
01:33:22,280 --> 01:33:23,800
Speaker 4: I really didn't like about his ending of like this

1744
01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:26,680
Speaker 4: neat bo is like in some ways his life was

1745
01:33:26,720 --> 01:33:30,240
Speaker 4: made better by he got this book deal he's able

1746
01:33:30,280 --> 01:33:33,000
Speaker 4: to And again, I just think that's not messy enough. Yeah,

1747
01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:36,439
Speaker 4: so I didn't appreciate that it was both unrealistic and

1748
01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:39,040
Speaker 4: not messy enough. Like I also wanted him to be

1749
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:41,719
Speaker 4: way more mad at her, for you were saying about

1750
01:33:41,720 --> 01:33:44,160
Speaker 4: this thing about like consent, Like he didn't ask her

1751
01:33:44,240 --> 01:33:46,320
Speaker 4: to do that and she just went ahead and did it,

1752
01:33:46,360 --> 01:33:48,679
Speaker 4: and he should have been more pissed, but he wasn't

1753
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:50,040
Speaker 4: because everything turned out great.

1754
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:50,519
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1755
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:54,680
Speaker 3: That feels like a huge breach of totally boundaries and privacy.

1756
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:57,880
Speaker 3: And I would be so mad if someone's like, hey,

1757
01:33:59,160 --> 01:34:02,000
Speaker 3: I talk about of your creative work and submitted it

1758
01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:05,840
Speaker 3: absolutely on your behalf and you didn't know about that,

1759
01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:07,560
Speaker 3: and I would be furious.

1760
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:10,559
Speaker 2: Yeah. I also I do think it's kind of a

1761
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:13,600
Speaker 2: fun humiliation for all those fucking losers that are like

1762
01:34:13,640 --> 01:34:15,920
Speaker 2: I refuse to write my wife a letter. I'm like,

1763
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:18,280
Speaker 2: you should you your wife should find out that you're

1764
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:19,559
Speaker 2: a lazy piece of shit.

1765
01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:23,280
Speaker 4: Well, well, again, in the opening scene, I think, if

1766
01:34:23,280 --> 01:34:26,320
Speaker 4: I remember rightly, he writes one side of the letter

1767
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:29,600
Speaker 4: and then he writes the side back, which is super fascinating.

1768
01:34:30,120 --> 01:34:31,080
Speaker 2: I think he's white.

1769
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:34,640
Speaker 4: For both the man and the woman. That's also really interesting, Like,

1770
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:36,519
Speaker 4: you know, so many of the scenarios that have played

1771
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:39,839
Speaker 4: out is just one side and generally the man engaging

1772
01:34:39,880 --> 01:34:42,120
Speaker 4: the chutch GPT, but when both partners are doing it,

1773
01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:44,360
Speaker 4: that feels like it's a different kind of set of considerations.

1774
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:46,919
Speaker 4: And then it's also like what are we doing here, guys,

1775
01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:50,320
Speaker 4: Like truly, he's also talking to you. I don't know,

1776
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:52,160
Speaker 4: it's so bizarre. It's so bizarre.

1777
01:34:52,479 --> 01:34:55,960
Speaker 2: Another thing is I never I kind of like forgot

1778
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:58,240
Speaker 2: that this happens because it doesn't really go anywhere. But

1779
01:34:58,439 --> 01:35:02,280
Speaker 2: the idea of when a Adams becomes friends with I

1780
01:35:02,360 --> 01:35:04,920
Speaker 2: wasn't hear of it was like friends or romantic or

1781
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:08,400
Speaker 2: what it was. It seemed more friendly to me that

1782
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:10,519
Speaker 2: like she was just kind of like joking around with

1783
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:14,280
Speaker 2: her Ai, who's like had a feminine voice. They were

1784
01:35:14,320 --> 01:35:16,920
Speaker 2: making the mom hump the stove or whatever on like

1785
01:35:17,240 --> 01:35:19,240
Speaker 2: Mommy video game, and it seems like they were just

1786
01:35:19,240 --> 01:35:22,559
Speaker 2: hanging out and that felt I wonder how intentional that

1787
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:24,519
Speaker 2: was because I liked that it was like Amy Adams

1788
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:26,519
Speaker 2: is using it for friendship when it's like most of

1789
01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:28,960
Speaker 2: the men we see are not capable of using it

1790
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:32,000
Speaker 2: strictly for friendship. Yeah, but I don't know.

1791
01:35:32,160 --> 01:35:35,720
Speaker 4: Yes, And I guess it also bothered me a little bit.

1792
01:35:35,760 --> 01:35:38,000
Speaker 4: I liked that. I really liked that scene. Also, the

1793
01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:40,719
Speaker 4: only scene in the movie right of two women technically

1794
01:35:40,800 --> 01:35:42,479
Speaker 4: kind of talking to one another, even though it didn't

1795
01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:43,960
Speaker 4: advance the plot, but it was like the only thing

1796
01:35:43,960 --> 01:35:46,320
Speaker 4: that came close to the Beechdel test.

1797
01:35:46,520 --> 01:35:49,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, like make the mommy fuck the stuff exactly.

1798
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:54,000
Speaker 4: But I also felt like none of the women have

1799
01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:58,040
Speaker 4: sex strives right, Like she's not interested in fucking her

1800
01:35:58,200 --> 01:36:01,280
Speaker 4: Ai Olivia World, he wants to sleep with him if

1801
01:36:01,320 --> 01:36:05,519
Speaker 4: she gets the emotional thing of a relationship. And even

1802
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:08,160
Speaker 4: the woman that he's having the phone sex with, she's

1803
01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:10,760
Speaker 4: such a freak because she wants to be strangled with

1804
01:36:10,800 --> 01:36:13,360
Speaker 4: a dead cat that I was just like, that's that's

1805
01:36:13,400 --> 01:36:15,720
Speaker 4: such a weird interpretation of female pleasure. I get it's

1806
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:17,600
Speaker 4: supposed to I get what you're doing and why you

1807
01:36:17,600 --> 01:36:19,680
Speaker 4: had to write the scene that way, but can't you

1808
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:23,439
Speaker 4: just show me like one horny, well adjusted woman, please?

1809
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:25,160
Speaker 3: That would be nice.

1810
01:36:25,200 --> 01:36:28,439
Speaker 2: That's true, That's true. Yeah, I mean including and then

1811
01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:32,760
Speaker 2: the Isabella character it seems like she is. That scene

1812
01:36:32,840 --> 01:36:35,880
Speaker 2: is just kind of baffling to me in general, Wait,

1813
01:36:36,200 --> 01:36:37,479
Speaker 2: is a Bell his s ex wife?

1814
01:36:37,840 --> 01:36:41,160
Speaker 3: No, the surrogate which oh.

1815
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:43,840
Speaker 4: Yes, she doesn't even have. Her only desire for sex

1816
01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:47,760
Speaker 4: is about this thing of like tapping into someone else's relationship.

1817
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:48,760
Speaker 4: It's just emotional.

1818
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:51,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, yeah, it's all emotionally driven. There's no

1819
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:55,080
Speaker 2: there's no yeah raw woman horniness except for Samantha. But

1820
01:36:55,120 --> 01:36:57,360
Speaker 2: it feels like that's happening in response to what Theodore

1821
01:36:57,400 --> 01:37:00,000
Speaker 2: it wants not but yeah.

1822
01:36:59,320 --> 01:37:02,040
Speaker 3: And Samantha is not a human so it doesn't care.

1823
01:37:04,280 --> 01:37:06,840
Speaker 3: That reminds me of a point I wanted to make

1824
01:37:07,080 --> 01:37:13,000
Speaker 3: regarding the Isabella surrogate character, where when Samantha is pitching

1825
01:37:13,280 --> 01:37:16,200
Speaker 3: that they use a surrogate to sort of like spice

1826
01:37:16,280 --> 01:37:20,679
Speaker 3: up their sex life. Oh, Theodor says something like, oh,

1827
01:37:20,680 --> 01:37:23,600
Speaker 3: what like a prostitute, and you can hear the disgust

1828
01:37:23,840 --> 01:37:27,880
Speaker 3: in his voice. Yes, And Samantha is very defensive and

1829
01:37:27,920 --> 01:37:30,599
Speaker 3: says no, no, no, no, no, there's no money involved.

1830
01:37:30,640 --> 01:37:33,080
Speaker 3: She just like wants to be a part of our relationship,

1831
01:37:33,360 --> 01:37:35,439
Speaker 3: which sounds like there could be some sort of like

1832
01:37:36,360 --> 01:37:40,120
Speaker 3: unicorn element to that, and you know, we're not here

1833
01:37:40,160 --> 01:37:42,720
Speaker 3: to kink shame, but I think it would make a

1834
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:47,599
Speaker 3: lot more sense if in this world that was sex work,

1835
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:51,599
Speaker 3: Like these surrogates were sex workers who you would hire

1836
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:55,439
Speaker 3: and pay to like represent the physical body of an

1837
01:37:56,160 --> 01:38:00,080
Speaker 3: os and that they're like that, they're hopefully wouldn't be

1838
01:38:00,520 --> 01:38:04,880
Speaker 3: shame attached to hiring a sex worker for that. But

1839
01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:09,320
Speaker 3: this movie can't vision a world where that's part of it,

1840
01:38:09,400 --> 01:38:10,519
Speaker 3: and instead it's.

1841
01:38:10,439 --> 01:38:12,920
Speaker 2: And the things pretty early on in I mean not

1842
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:15,639
Speaker 2: to defend a movie pretty early on in this being

1843
01:38:15,680 --> 01:38:18,320
Speaker 2: a thing, I think that would have been interesting. I mean,

1844
01:38:18,360 --> 01:38:20,519
Speaker 2: the way that they chose to go with that character,

1845
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:26,400
Speaker 2: I just found it confusing what happened off screen.

1846
01:38:26,920 --> 01:38:29,439
Speaker 4: Just two really really quick points on that character. One

1847
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:32,760
Speaker 4: I agree with you Samantha's rection is the whole thing

1848
01:38:32,800 --> 01:38:35,160
Speaker 4: about the sex work is really really interesting. And Samantha's

1849
01:38:35,160 --> 01:38:37,719
Speaker 4: thing of like, no, she wouldn't be paid is interesting

1850
01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:41,920
Speaker 4: because if payment is the definition of sex work, then

1851
01:38:41,960 --> 01:38:44,800
Speaker 4: Samantha can't view herself as a sex worker because maybe

1852
01:38:44,800 --> 01:38:47,040
Speaker 4: she's a sex worker as well, but because she's just

1853
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:49,880
Speaker 4: not being paid for like the work that she's doing.

1854
01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:53,400
Speaker 4: And then on the point of that woman, I swear

1855
01:38:53,439 --> 01:38:55,680
Speaker 4: there was a line where he was talking about why

1856
01:38:55,760 --> 01:38:58,200
Speaker 4: it didn't work for him and he said, I saw

1857
01:38:58,240 --> 01:39:00,640
Speaker 4: her lip quiver and I thought that was such a

1858
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:04,320
Speaker 4: beautiful articulation. Again, I think there's so many good parts

1859
01:39:04,320 --> 01:39:06,720
Speaker 4: of writing about this of like, just like his ex

1860
01:39:06,760 --> 01:39:09,320
Speaker 4: wife says, he doesn't want to do with someone with feelings,

1861
01:39:09,600 --> 01:39:13,240
Speaker 4: bodies are really messy, and bodies are like so overwhelming.

1862
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:15,639
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Like every time you sleep with someone

1863
01:39:15,680 --> 01:39:16,280
Speaker 4: it's just like.

1864
01:39:16,479 --> 01:39:20,800
Speaker 3: What you know, it's low key disgusting, and Lasothy.

1865
01:39:20,520 --> 01:39:24,519
Speaker 4: Is really really intense and like, yeah, it makes it

1866
01:39:24,640 --> 01:39:27,320
Speaker 4: really really you're like, oh, okay, I can I think

1867
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:30,240
Speaker 4: it almost feels a bit relatable of like I can

1868
01:39:30,320 --> 01:39:32,160
Speaker 4: imagine like all of a sudden seeing a lip quiverro

1869
01:39:32,160 --> 01:39:34,240
Speaker 4: and being like, oh my god, a whole soul, a

1870
01:39:34,240 --> 01:39:36,280
Speaker 4: whole being. I can't handle it, you know.

1871
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:37,000
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1872
01:39:37,080 --> 01:39:39,479
Speaker 2: I mean that was one of the points in the

1873
01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:43,080
Speaker 2: movie where I was like kind of on theatre's side.

1874
01:39:43,640 --> 01:39:46,120
Speaker 2: Hear me out, because he does say no to it.

1875
01:39:46,200 --> 01:39:48,080
Speaker 2: He says no, that would make me uncomfortable. A couple

1876
01:39:48,120 --> 01:39:50,800
Speaker 2: of times. Yeah, Samantha is pushy about it and I

1877
01:39:50,800 --> 01:39:54,080
Speaker 2: think the internal logic is like, well, she knows him

1878
01:39:54,080 --> 01:39:56,600
Speaker 2: better than he knows himself or whatever it is. But like,

1879
01:39:57,120 --> 01:40:00,800
Speaker 2: but I mean, just putting yourself in this situation that

1880
01:40:00,920 --> 01:40:04,600
Speaker 2: is so uncomfortable to know that you're in front of

1881
01:40:04,600 --> 01:40:06,600
Speaker 2: a person who is not the person whose voice Like

1882
01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:09,799
Speaker 2: it's just too many layers to be able to get horny.

1883
01:40:10,280 --> 01:40:11,360
Speaker 2: It's just uncomfortable.

1884
01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:13,679
Speaker 3: And he doesn't know her at all, but Samantha does.

1885
01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:18,160
Speaker 3: So that's another weird, like one sided aspect of that.

1886
01:40:18,400 --> 01:40:21,120
Speaker 2: And she knows that, and she apologizes and she's like

1887
01:40:21,160 --> 01:40:22,120
Speaker 2: that was a bad idea.

1888
01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:24,559
Speaker 4: I wonder if they could have done something interesting of

1889
01:40:24,600 --> 01:40:28,320
Speaker 4: like circling back to again, remember the very first scene.

1890
01:40:28,520 --> 01:40:30,960
Speaker 4: They do so much in the first moments to set

1891
01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:33,760
Speaker 4: up the movie. So they separate out his like really

1892
01:40:33,880 --> 01:40:37,120
Speaker 4: romantic voice when he's writing these letters and he says print,

1893
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:40,080
Speaker 4: and he also does this gearshift when he's talking to

1894
01:40:40,080 --> 01:40:42,759
Speaker 4: Samantha where he like, there's like a voice for talking

1895
01:40:42,800 --> 01:40:45,640
Speaker 4: to the AI that he wants to emotional engage with him.

1896
01:40:45,680 --> 01:40:47,720
Speaker 4: There's like a voice for commands, which I also thought

1897
01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:50,200
Speaker 4: was really interesting. But wait, why am I saying all

1898
01:40:50,240 --> 01:40:51,800
Speaker 4: of this about at the beginning.

1899
01:40:52,280 --> 01:40:52,439
Speaker 2: Oh.

1900
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:55,280
Speaker 4: Then so he leaves the office and he says, play

1901
01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:58,680
Speaker 4: melancholy music and he's like, not so melancholy. And then

1902
01:40:58,760 --> 01:41:00,479
Speaker 4: he starts looking at his phone. It's like do you

1903
01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:02,880
Speaker 4: want to or the AI says to him, do you

1904
01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:06,320
Speaker 4: want to see pregnant a naked pregnant star?

1905
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:10,240
Speaker 3: There's like news stories, oh yeah, about different conflicts in

1906
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:12,120
Speaker 3: the world, and he's like, past, I don't care about

1907
01:41:12,160 --> 01:41:14,360
Speaker 3: that shit. And then it's like, do you want to

1908
01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:19,120
Speaker 3: see provocative photo pregnancy photos of X y Z celebrity

1909
01:41:19,120 --> 01:41:20,160
Speaker 3: And he's like yes.

1910
01:41:20,280 --> 01:41:23,280
Speaker 4: And again I think that's like it's good writing. It's

1911
01:41:23,360 --> 01:41:26,479
Speaker 4: like that's how a lot of people actually feel. And

1912
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:28,320
Speaker 4: I don't think it's trying to sell up that he's

1913
01:41:28,320 --> 01:41:31,280
Speaker 4: got a real kink for pregnant women. I think it's

1914
01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:35,120
Speaker 4: just like why not have a look? But I don't know.

1915
01:41:35,280 --> 01:41:35,680
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1916
01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:38,200
Speaker 3: He's just someone who doesn't really want to engage with

1917
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:43,120
Speaker 3: the world and its problems, and he's longing for companionship

1918
01:41:43,200 --> 01:41:45,519
Speaker 3: and doesn't really know how to handle it in a

1919
01:41:45,600 --> 01:41:46,280
Speaker 3: mature way.

1920
01:41:46,800 --> 01:41:49,920
Speaker 15: Yeah, which is like many such cases kind of Yeah.

1921
01:41:50,080 --> 01:41:51,760
Speaker 15: I liked that sort of plan, but again, it felt

1922
01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:54,160
Speaker 15: like it kind of went away after a time where

1923
01:41:54,160 --> 01:41:57,960
Speaker 15: it was like it felt like towards the beginning, like

1924
01:41:58,120 --> 01:42:01,000
Speaker 15: porn comes up a lot at the beginning of the movie,

1925
01:42:01,560 --> 01:42:03,439
Speaker 15: and then once Samantha's in the picture, it kind of

1926
01:42:03,479 --> 01:42:06,280
Speaker 15: stops coming up. It would like again not to like

1927
01:42:06,360 --> 01:42:08,280
Speaker 15: rewrite the movie, but it's like it would have been

1928
01:42:08,320 --> 01:42:11,160
Speaker 15: interesting for them to have talked about that at some point,

1929
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:15,639
Speaker 15: because clearly she knows what he likes. She knows everything

1930
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:17,479
Speaker 15: about him, She has access to all of his data,

1931
01:42:18,360 --> 01:42:19,639
Speaker 15: she knows exactly what to do.

1932
01:42:20,439 --> 01:42:23,639
Speaker 2: And like in in their first phone sex scene together,

1933
01:42:23,720 --> 01:42:26,920
Speaker 2: he's picturing or no is it with the Christen Wig

1934
01:42:27,000 --> 01:42:32,559
Speaker 2: cat lady, He's picturing the pregnant woman. Again it's yeah, yeah,

1935
01:42:32,600 --> 01:42:35,599
Speaker 2: it cuts back to like him having a fantasy about

1936
01:42:35,600 --> 01:42:38,559
Speaker 2: the pregnant woman and she's like walking towards him naked,

1937
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:40,960
Speaker 2: and like, you know, it's like in a way they're

1938
01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:42,760
Speaker 2: like you can sort of see where he's going where

1939
01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:45,920
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, he's doing the horny thing where he's

1940
01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:48,360
Speaker 2: thinking about three things at once. It's like he's thinking

1941
01:42:48,360 --> 01:42:51,160
Speaker 2: about porn, he looked at today, He's listening to someone's voice.

1942
01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:53,080
Speaker 2: He's also like doing his.

1943
01:42:53,000 --> 01:42:56,000
Speaker 3: Own thing he's jerking is presumably.

1944
01:42:56,320 --> 01:42:58,559
Speaker 2: What a magician, what a miracle worker, that he can

1945
01:42:58,600 --> 01:43:01,439
Speaker 2: do so many things at once, But it feels like

1946
01:43:01,479 --> 01:43:04,600
Speaker 2: that was kind of like the sex aspect of it

1947
01:43:04,680 --> 01:43:07,880
Speaker 2: kind of goes away over time because it becomes about

1948
01:43:07,880 --> 01:43:09,360
Speaker 2: the relationship, which.

1949
01:43:09,160 --> 01:43:12,639
Speaker 4: I also was interesting like that even Ali just gets boring,

1950
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:16,280
Speaker 4: like it was trying to say something about like relationships,

1951
01:43:16,280 --> 01:43:18,360
Speaker 4: and I couldn't tell if that was trying to hint

1952
01:43:18,360 --> 01:43:20,439
Speaker 4: at this is a real relationship and just like any

1953
01:43:20,479 --> 01:43:24,519
Speaker 4: relationship with sex fades. Oh what else could it have

1954
01:43:24,560 --> 01:43:26,759
Speaker 4: been trying to say. I'm not sure, I'm not sure.

1955
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:29,960
Speaker 2: I don't know. I know, we're desperately trying to be like,

1956
01:43:30,040 --> 01:43:33,680
Speaker 2: what is this? What is this man trying to tell?

1957
01:43:33,800 --> 01:43:36,439
Speaker 2: What is his aging skateboarder trying to tell us?

1958
01:43:38,160 --> 01:43:40,240
Speaker 4: I think the thing that I really struggled about with

1959
01:43:40,280 --> 01:43:42,160
Speaker 4: this movie, and one of the reasons why I did

1960
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:44,920
Speaker 4: want to like find out everything about this man's personal

1961
01:43:45,000 --> 01:43:48,600
Speaker 4: life is because my read on things is quite like

1962
01:43:49,240 --> 01:43:52,080
Speaker 4: it just is so contingent on his self awareness. Either

1963
01:43:52,120 --> 01:43:55,120
Speaker 4: it's movie because he can tell he's like a pathetic

1964
01:43:55,680 --> 01:43:57,599
Speaker 4: guy who doesn't really want to face up to stuff,

1965
01:43:57,680 --> 01:44:01,840
Speaker 4: or he's thinking of himself as like an actual likable protagonist,

1966
01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:03,479
Speaker 4: in which case I'm not super intuent.

1967
01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:06,960
Speaker 2: I don't Yeah, yeah, I don't know where to I

1968
01:44:07,000 --> 01:44:08,800
Speaker 2: don't know where to land on it. But it was

1969
01:44:08,840 --> 01:44:11,679
Speaker 2: one of the cases where I don't know, I feel yeah,

1970
01:44:11,720 --> 01:44:13,400
Speaker 2: Like on the show Over the Year, sometimes you learn

1971
01:44:13,439 --> 01:44:15,720
Speaker 2: more about like where the director was at when they

1972
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:18,080
Speaker 2: made it, and it makes me feel more generous towards

1973
01:44:18,160 --> 01:44:22,679
Speaker 2: the movie. I wouldn't say that's the case here. It's, yeah,

1974
01:44:22,720 --> 01:44:25,880
Speaker 2: hearing interviews with him and just reading about I don't know,

1975
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:27,519
Speaker 2: there is and I know that it's because it's a

1976
01:44:27,640 --> 01:44:30,479
Speaker 2: very personal movie, but like no one forced him to

1977
01:44:30,520 --> 01:44:33,360
Speaker 2: make it, and and there is sort of this like

1978
01:44:33,600 --> 01:44:36,880
Speaker 2: repeated and I understand, like are he's very personal, but

1979
01:44:36,920 --> 01:44:41,599
Speaker 2: it's like he's very defensive when asked questions about the

1980
01:44:41,640 --> 01:44:46,599
Speaker 2: movie he made on purpose. So yeah, it didn't make

1981
01:44:46,640 --> 01:44:49,920
Speaker 2: me think like more fondly of the movie. But he's

1982
01:44:49,960 --> 01:44:52,680
Speaker 2: like weird because I mean, I all, I said, I

1983
01:44:52,840 --> 01:44:55,840
Speaker 2: like Spike Jones in general, I mean I really like.

1984
01:44:56,880 --> 01:44:58,479
Speaker 2: I mean, I haven't seen it in years, so maybe

1985
01:44:58,479 --> 01:45:01,360
Speaker 2: it would feel differently, But like being John Malkovich is great.

1986
01:45:02,120 --> 01:45:03,760
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I really like his work with

1987
01:45:03,840 --> 01:45:05,880
Speaker 2: Charlie Coffman, and this is his first movie that he

1988
01:45:05,880 --> 01:45:09,200
Speaker 2: wrote by himself, and yeah, I don't like it as much.

1989
01:45:09,320 --> 01:45:11,799
Speaker 2: So maybe what I'm saying is I like Charlie Kaufman.

1990
01:45:12,000 --> 01:45:15,679
Speaker 3: Oh huh, yes, I think that like that guy lot correct.

1991
01:45:16,479 --> 01:45:21,160
Speaker 3: Going back really quick to talking about bodies and sex,

1992
01:45:22,439 --> 01:45:26,839
Speaker 3: I did feel very seen when Olivia Wilde's character tells

1993
01:45:26,880 --> 01:45:31,800
Speaker 3: Theodore to use less tongue when they're kissing. Oh, and

1994
01:45:31,840 --> 01:45:34,639
Speaker 3: then it seems like he kisses with no tongue after that,

1995
01:45:34,760 --> 01:45:36,760
Speaker 3: and then she's like, well, you can use a little bit,

1996
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:40,439
Speaker 3: but mostly lips. And I don't know if this is

1997
01:45:40,479 --> 01:45:44,639
Speaker 3: supposed to be part of what makes her the Olivia

1998
01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:49,200
Speaker 3: wild character like incompatible with him, and he's more compatible

1999
01:45:49,200 --> 01:45:51,880
Speaker 3: with a virtual girlfriend who he doesn't even have to kiss.

2000
01:45:52,600 --> 01:45:56,519
Speaker 3: But as I've stated on the podcast before, I have

2001
01:45:56,640 --> 01:45:59,760
Speaker 3: had to teach so many men how to not be

2002
01:46:00,160 --> 01:46:03,400
Speaker 3: so horrible at kissing and to not shove their entire

2003
01:46:03,479 --> 01:46:07,280
Speaker 3: tongue down my throat at all times. And I just

2004
01:46:07,320 --> 01:46:12,680
Speaker 3: I felt very seen in that moment, and what was

2005
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:13,080
Speaker 3: part of.

2006
01:46:13,120 --> 01:46:16,200
Speaker 4: The reason why he was like, I don't want anything

2007
01:46:16,200 --> 01:46:20,000
Speaker 4: with you beyond Tonight a criticism, So I thought that

2008
01:46:20,120 --> 01:46:20,919
Speaker 4: was really interesting.

2009
01:46:22,479 --> 01:46:25,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that had to have been like, I'm like,

2010
01:46:25,040 --> 01:46:27,360
Speaker 2: the word that had to have been self aware on

2011
01:46:27,479 --> 01:46:29,280
Speaker 2: Spike Dress is part right where it's like, yeah that

2012
01:46:29,439 --> 01:46:33,200
Speaker 2: it's anytime there is I mean, that's why he's taking

2013
01:46:33,240 --> 01:46:36,280
Speaker 2: a GPT. That's why Rudy Mara is right, is that

2014
01:46:36,360 --> 01:46:41,760
Speaker 2: anytime someone lightly pushes back, even presents constructive feedback, like

2015
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:44,559
Speaker 2: he can't even handle constructive feedback, he takes it as

2016
01:46:44,600 --> 01:46:47,559
Speaker 2: rejection and then he throws the rejection back in someone's

2017
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:50,439
Speaker 2: face before he can get rejected, and then he starts

2018
01:46:50,439 --> 01:46:54,080
Speaker 2: sucking his computer, and you're just like, best of luck, man,

2019
01:46:55,040 --> 01:46:58,400
Speaker 2: this is not my clown up my circus. I don't know.

2020
01:47:00,200 --> 01:47:03,599
Speaker 3: Well, I love to the turn of phrase. I think

2021
01:47:03,640 --> 01:47:08,600
Speaker 3: the last thing I wanted to say is polyamory icon Samantha,

2022
01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:13,240
Speaker 3: because I also felt rather seen when she says the

2023
01:47:13,280 --> 01:47:15,800
Speaker 3: heart isn't like a box that gets filled up. It

2024
01:47:15,880 --> 01:47:21,080
Speaker 3: expands in size the more you love. And I liked.

2025
01:47:21,080 --> 01:47:24,240
Speaker 2: That as a greeting card too, so many women speaking

2026
01:47:24,280 --> 01:47:24,840
Speaker 2: greeting card.

2027
01:47:26,600 --> 01:47:29,920
Speaker 3: I would accept that greeting card if someone send it

2028
01:47:29,960 --> 01:47:33,800
Speaker 3: to me, but I mean I do find that ending

2029
01:47:33,920 --> 01:47:39,720
Speaker 3: very interesting, where he's basically claiming ownership over her and

2030
01:47:39,760 --> 01:47:43,840
Speaker 3: he's saying like you're mine or you're not mine, there's

2031
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:47,760
Speaker 3: nothing in between, and she's like, well there is, like

2032
01:47:48,080 --> 01:47:52,160
Speaker 3: I'm yours and I'm not yours. There's it's not an ore,

2033
01:47:52,400 --> 01:47:55,439
Speaker 3: it's an and, and she's it. Just it just goes

2034
01:47:55,479 --> 01:47:59,600
Speaker 3: to show the you know, incompatibility between polyamorous people and

2035
01:47:59,680 --> 01:48:01,040
Speaker 3: monoga miss people, but.

2036
01:48:02,240 --> 01:48:07,120
Speaker 2: Also that she's also just like a melted iceberg tip like, and.

2037
01:48:07,040 --> 01:48:12,439
Speaker 3: She's also not a person, She's not a real well side,

2038
01:48:13,400 --> 01:48:16,200
Speaker 3: The tagline for this movie was a Spike Jones love.

2039
01:48:16,040 --> 01:48:21,000
Speaker 2: Story and I'm not interested. But then again, his bff

2040
01:48:21,080 --> 01:48:22,920
Speaker 2: Charlie Kaufman wrote one of the best, one of my

2041
01:48:22,920 --> 01:48:27,679
Speaker 2: favorite romances ever, he wrote Eternal Sunshine. So but yeah,

2042
01:48:27,720 --> 01:48:30,400
Speaker 2: this is just not when it comes in general male

2043
01:48:30,479 --> 01:48:35,040
Speaker 2: O tour. Plus, here's my take on relationships. I'm not interested.

2044
01:48:36,000 --> 01:48:39,360
Speaker 3: A movie with a similar premise that just handles this

2045
01:48:39,560 --> 01:48:43,000
Speaker 3: very differently and that has a very different narrative trajectory,

2046
01:48:43,600 --> 01:48:46,000
Speaker 3: which we talked about a little bit off mic. But

2047
01:48:46,120 --> 01:48:49,439
Speaker 3: the movie Companion that came out earlier this year, I

2048
01:48:49,479 --> 01:48:52,320
Speaker 3: think would be really interesting to examine, especially sort of

2049
01:48:52,360 --> 01:48:55,240
Speaker 3: side by side with this movie, because I think it

2050
01:48:55,240 --> 01:48:58,040
Speaker 3: does a lot of the things that this movie either

2051
01:48:58,080 --> 01:49:01,880
Speaker 3: fails to do or isn't totally clear if it is

2052
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:10,360
Speaker 3: presenting commentary, whereas Companion is I think doing that more cogently.

2053
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:14,720
Speaker 3: The last thing I want to say is, I guess

2054
01:49:14,720 --> 01:49:18,639
Speaker 3: a little PSA for anyone who might be listening who

2055
01:49:18,720 --> 01:49:23,519
Speaker 3: does use chat, GBT or any other kind of like

2056
01:49:23,560 --> 01:49:27,920
Speaker 3: whatever generative AI. If you're thinking, oh, well, this doesn't

2057
01:49:27,920 --> 01:49:32,960
Speaker 3: apply to me because I don't have a romantic relationship

2058
01:49:33,600 --> 01:49:38,000
Speaker 3: with a chat bot, or I just use it to

2059
01:49:38,040 --> 01:49:41,559
Speaker 3: help me draft emails, well consider this. We alluded to this,

2060
01:49:41,600 --> 01:49:44,080
Speaker 3: But I want to give some specifics about the environmental

2061
01:49:44,120 --> 01:49:50,840
Speaker 3: impacts of generative AI. It uses a staggering amount of electricity,

2062
01:49:52,080 --> 01:49:57,160
Speaker 3: which of course leads to increased carbon dioxide emissions and

2063
01:49:57,400 --> 01:50:04,360
Speaker 3: pressures on the electric grid in whatever area. A great

2064
01:50:04,400 --> 01:50:08,360
Speaker 3: deal of water is needed to cool the hardware that

2065
01:50:08,720 --> 01:50:15,040
Speaker 3: is used for just whatever. The functionality of AI models

2066
01:50:15,040 --> 01:50:20,600
Speaker 3: and generative AI the the way that the raw materials

2067
01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:26,599
Speaker 3: that are used to fabricate GP use, which is a

2068
01:50:26,680 --> 01:50:33,679
Speaker 3: processor that handles generative AI workloads, the way those raw

2069
01:50:33,720 --> 01:50:38,840
Speaker 3: materials are mined and obtained are usually very harmful to

2070
01:50:38,880 --> 01:50:43,479
Speaker 3: the environment, harmful to the communities and the places that

2071
01:50:43,840 --> 01:50:45,960
Speaker 3: I mean all of them are being mine from all

2072
01:50:46,040 --> 01:50:49,799
Speaker 3: the environmental frontline communities. Like it's the same story over.

2073
01:50:49,640 --> 01:50:50,639
Speaker 2: And over and over.

2074
01:50:51,479 --> 01:50:55,800
Speaker 3: Yes, So if you're using AI, stop it, stop stop it.

2075
01:50:55,880 --> 01:50:57,439
Speaker 2: I don't care, Like I.

2076
01:50:59,240 --> 01:51:02,920
Speaker 6: Get a fucking life ibrary card and not get the

2077
01:51:02,960 --> 01:51:08,320
Speaker 6: fuck off whatever. I defy you to send us a

2078
01:51:08,360 --> 01:51:13,840
Speaker 6: good reason, give us a good reason. But it's just

2079
01:51:14,200 --> 01:51:16,719
Speaker 6: like if you're using chat GBT to write your emails,

2080
01:51:16,720 --> 01:51:19,160
Speaker 6: to write your fucking wedding vast right, just all of

2081
01:51:19,200 --> 01:51:22,280
Speaker 6: these different things that like, grow up, grow up. That's

2082
01:51:22,280 --> 01:51:24,519
Speaker 6: my final report on the movie heard.

2083
01:51:28,200 --> 01:51:30,000
Speaker 3: Does it pass the Bechdol test. We talked about this

2084
01:51:30,080 --> 01:51:33,599
Speaker 3: on the first episode. I don't even remember or really

2085
01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:34,240
Speaker 3: care at this.

2086
01:51:35,800 --> 01:51:38,519
Speaker 2: It definitely doesn't. There's like, yeah, there's a few like

2087
01:51:38,880 --> 01:51:42,280
Speaker 2: if you count Samantha as I guess like a phone

2088
01:51:42,280 --> 01:51:46,639
Speaker 2: and coded like I guess a marginalized gender computer count,

2089
01:51:46,720 --> 01:51:50,840
Speaker 2: we don't know. No no, then double no. But even

2090
01:51:50,880 --> 01:51:54,080
Speaker 2: though like there was like a few conversations with chatbots

2091
01:51:54,120 --> 01:51:56,639
Speaker 2: talking to women off screen, there's no one to submit

2092
01:51:56,720 --> 01:52:01,519
Speaker 2: this talking to Chris Bratt's girlfriend about footfeed. Yes, but

2093
01:52:01,600 --> 01:52:05,040
Speaker 2: it's about crowd Chris Pratt feels about feet so unfortunately

2094
01:52:05,080 --> 01:52:08,519
Speaker 2: that's not a pass right. Yeah, just no, let's go

2095
01:52:08,600 --> 01:52:08,840
Speaker 2: with no.

2096
01:52:09,080 --> 01:52:12,479
Speaker 3: Let's go with no. Our nipple scale, though, which we

2097
01:52:12,520 --> 01:52:14,800
Speaker 3: also rated last time, I feel like I think I

2098
01:52:14,800 --> 01:52:17,720
Speaker 3: gave it like a one and a half, and my

2099
01:52:17,760 --> 01:52:22,800
Speaker 3: feelings haven't really changed from our first episode. I would

2100
01:52:22,800 --> 01:52:27,320
Speaker 3: maybe even go down to one nipple, just based on

2101
01:52:28,360 --> 01:52:32,120
Speaker 3: the sort of in selly way women are written in

2102
01:52:32,160 --> 01:52:36,400
Speaker 3: the movie the I don't know, just I do think

2103
01:52:36,439 --> 01:52:42,080
Speaker 3: the movie is asking us to root for the Theodore

2104
01:52:42,600 --> 01:52:47,240
Speaker 3: character and presenting him with flaws, and it is saying, like,

2105
01:52:47,880 --> 01:52:50,680
Speaker 3: look at him learning and growing and evolving by the

2106
01:52:50,840 --> 01:52:53,200
Speaker 3: end of the movie. But I don't I don't know.

2107
01:52:53,240 --> 01:52:55,920
Speaker 3: Maybe it's just that I find this movie so exhausting,

2108
01:52:57,720 --> 01:53:01,040
Speaker 3: but uh, I don't know. I'm I'm also struggling to

2109
01:53:01,120 --> 01:53:04,760
Speaker 3: articulate myself. But I'm just gonna suffice it to say

2110
01:53:04,800 --> 01:53:10,240
Speaker 3: one nipple and I'll give it to the use of

2111
01:53:10,520 --> 01:53:14,759
Speaker 3: the representation of the use of public transit in la.

2112
01:53:14,960 --> 01:53:17,800
Speaker 2: I know, unfortunately imaginary transit, but what can you do.

2113
01:53:19,320 --> 01:53:23,160
Speaker 2: I'll give it one nipple. I do I have complicated

2114
01:53:23,200 --> 01:53:26,720
Speaker 2: feelings towards this movie because I do think that they're

2115
01:53:27,160 --> 01:53:29,760
Speaker 2: in spite of all the shit we've talked, there are

2116
01:53:29,960 --> 01:53:32,240
Speaker 2: moments of this movie that it really feels like it's

2117
01:53:32,320 --> 01:53:36,240
Speaker 2: doing something. I think that it is worthy of mention

2118
01:53:36,479 --> 01:53:40,679
Speaker 2: that this subverts the like Lady Ai story we've seen

2119
01:53:40,680 --> 01:53:43,479
Speaker 2: a million times where at the end there's soulmates and

2120
01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:47,080
Speaker 2: they're gonna build a nuclear family together. Like this has

2121
01:53:48,439 --> 01:53:51,160
Speaker 2: not necessarily more realistic because she goes a I haven,

2122
01:53:51,439 --> 01:53:54,960
Speaker 2: but like, you know, it's like it's not suggested that

2123
01:53:55,240 --> 01:53:58,760
Speaker 2: this character is destined to be with the first man

2124
01:53:58,840 --> 01:54:02,120
Speaker 2: she meets in the entire world, which, unfortunately, in stories

2125
01:54:02,160 --> 01:54:06,120
Speaker 2: of this nature, is saying something. But it's just I mean,

2126
01:54:06,280 --> 01:54:08,719
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think part of why I'm feeling

2127
01:54:08,800 --> 01:54:11,920
Speaker 2: extra sour on it now is just because of time

2128
01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:15,479
Speaker 2: and how I think just the narrowness of the scope

2129
01:54:15,520 --> 01:54:17,880
Speaker 2: of the story just like kind of didn't age very

2130
01:54:17,880 --> 01:54:20,160
Speaker 2: well for me, even though it's like that's not the

2131
01:54:20,200 --> 01:54:22,160
Speaker 2: fault of the movie, but it's hard not to be

2132
01:54:22,200 --> 01:54:28,000
Speaker 2: distracted by how myopic it feels in retrospect, and I

2133
01:54:28,160 --> 01:54:30,599
Speaker 2: just don't like when a guy plays a ukulele and

2134
01:54:30,640 --> 01:54:35,040
Speaker 2: they're like, isn't this romantic. It's like, no, there's actually

2135
01:54:35,040 --> 01:54:37,960
Speaker 2: that was I think about this. It sent me back

2136
01:54:38,000 --> 01:54:40,960
Speaker 2: to I hadn't thought about the Barbie movie in a while,

2137
01:54:41,120 --> 01:54:44,080
Speaker 2: but the Ryan Gosling scene where he's like, I'm going

2138
01:54:44,080 --> 01:54:46,120
Speaker 2: to play guitar at you, and it felt like that.

2139
01:54:47,200 --> 01:54:50,080
Speaker 2: So this movie feels like Spike Jones playing the guitar

2140
01:54:50,160 --> 01:54:53,680
Speaker 2: at me and I don't. It's not my favorite. And

2141
01:54:53,760 --> 01:54:57,600
Speaker 2: in terms of intersectional feminism, where is it where you know?

2142
01:54:57,760 --> 01:55:01,120
Speaker 2: One feels almost generous. But I'll give it one, and

2143
01:55:01,160 --> 01:55:05,080
Speaker 2: I'll give it to Amy Adam's character. I wish you're

2144
01:55:05,120 --> 01:55:06,760
Speaker 2: the best. I hope she quit her job.

2145
01:55:07,560 --> 01:55:09,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Mona, how about you.

2146
01:55:10,040 --> 01:55:17,400
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give it again. I haven't watched many movies

2147
01:55:17,480 --> 01:55:21,040
Speaker 4: really really relevant context deale. I'm gonna give it three

2148
01:55:22,080 --> 01:55:25,120
Speaker 4: because I don't think it's quite beautifully sure. I think

2149
01:55:25,120 --> 01:55:29,200
Speaker 4: the acting is good. I think that if the waiting

2150
01:55:29,280 --> 01:55:33,000
Speaker 4: is self aware, it's good. But we can't possibly know.

2151
01:55:34,640 --> 01:55:35,840
Speaker 3: It's just not clear enough.

2152
01:55:35,880 --> 01:55:40,760
Speaker 2: It's so hard to know. Is how much does Spike

2153
01:55:40,840 --> 01:55:43,480
Speaker 2: Jones know himself? I've never I never thought I would

2154
01:55:43,480 --> 01:55:45,600
Speaker 2: devote this much time trying to get to the bottom

2155
01:55:45,600 --> 01:55:45,800
Speaker 2: of that.

2156
01:55:47,960 --> 01:55:50,840
Speaker 3: Oh goodness, well mana, thank you so much for joining

2157
01:55:50,880 --> 01:55:51,920
Speaker 3: us in this discussion.

2158
01:55:52,160 --> 01:55:52,960
Speaker 2: It's a blast.

2159
01:55:53,120 --> 01:55:56,800
Speaker 3: Come back anytime if you feel like watching a second movie.

2160
01:55:56,880 --> 01:55:58,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, if there's a movie that's on your list and

2161
01:55:58,720 --> 01:56:00,560
Speaker 2: you need an excuse, let us know Hook.

2162
01:56:00,760 --> 01:56:03,280
Speaker 4: I feel like, what what if you need someone who

2163
01:56:03,320 --> 01:56:07,080
Speaker 4: had only really watched Hook and a few other things.

2164
01:56:07,680 --> 01:56:10,160
Speaker 4: Where would you, both of you, with your giving your

2165
01:56:10,360 --> 01:56:13,040
Speaker 4: vas vast reorcords were, where would you recommend I start?

2166
01:56:14,280 --> 01:56:17,240
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, my gosh, every.

2167
01:56:17,680 --> 01:56:18,720
Speaker 2: We'll send you a list.

2168
01:56:18,440 --> 01:56:21,200
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we'll just have to. We'll curate a list

2169
01:56:21,240 --> 01:56:21,520
Speaker 3: for you.

2170
01:56:21,640 --> 01:56:26,520
Speaker 2: I Frankenstein. So all the movies that are covered to

2171
01:56:26,560 --> 01:56:28,440
Speaker 2: I had are bad movies I love.

2172
01:56:28,520 --> 01:56:31,880
Speaker 3: I would say, I would say Paddington and Shrek to

2173
01:56:32,080 --> 01:56:35,880
Speaker 3: call back to our celebrity friends that we would are

2174
01:56:35,920 --> 01:56:42,080
Speaker 3: so like, But yeah, where can people check out your work,

2175
01:56:42,560 --> 01:56:44,400
Speaker 3: follow you on social media, et cetera.

2176
01:56:44,880 --> 01:56:48,520
Speaker 4: Weaving out, spend time with loved ones, not on screens.

2177
01:56:48,560 --> 01:56:50,680
Speaker 3: That is such a good call.

2178
01:56:50,920 --> 01:56:53,440
Speaker 2: That's the real lesson of her log out.

2179
01:56:55,360 --> 01:56:58,320
Speaker 3: And speaking of normally we would plug our Instagram and

2180
01:56:58,440 --> 01:57:01,000
Speaker 3: our Patreon, but instead we're going to really focus on

2181
01:57:01,040 --> 01:57:05,280
Speaker 3: plugging the Midwest tour that you can come to in

2182
01:57:05,280 --> 01:57:07,160
Speaker 3: person and meet us in person.

2183
01:57:07,440 --> 01:57:12,520
Speaker 2: And there's many stories of friends and even lovers meeting

2184
01:57:12,560 --> 01:57:15,240
Speaker 2: at Bechtel Cash shows. This is true over the years,

2185
01:57:15,360 --> 01:57:18,400
Speaker 2: and so it actually really does make me feel good

2186
01:57:18,400 --> 01:57:20,480
Speaker 2: when we go to shows and you like meet people

2187
01:57:20,480 --> 01:57:22,880
Speaker 2: after were like, I came alone and then I made friends.

2188
01:57:22,960 --> 01:57:25,280
Speaker 3: You're like, ough love that, it's beautiful.

2189
01:57:25,520 --> 01:57:27,280
Speaker 2: Come to the live shows. It's a good hang.

2190
01:57:27,640 --> 01:57:32,520
Speaker 3: Yes, we're doing shows in Indianapolis, Chicago, Madison, and Minneapolis

2191
01:57:32,800 --> 01:57:35,120
Speaker 3: at the end of August early September. You can grab

2192
01:57:35,160 --> 01:57:38,600
Speaker 3: tickets at link tree Slash Bechdel Cast.

2193
01:57:39,200 --> 01:57:45,920
Speaker 2: And with that, let's all good at Ai Heaven. Let's

2194
01:57:45,920 --> 01:57:47,360
Speaker 2: break up with Jaquin Phoenix.

2195
01:57:47,520 --> 01:57:54,680
Speaker 3: Yes please, Okay, bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a

2196
01:57:54,720 --> 01:57:58,720
Speaker 3: production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus,

2197
01:57:58,920 --> 01:58:02,760
Speaker 3: produced by Sophie lock German, edited by Molaboord. Our theme

2198
01:58:02,840 --> 01:58:07,040
Speaker 3: song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskresenski.

2199
01:58:07,520 --> 01:58:10,880
Speaker 3: Our logo in merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and

2200
01:58:10,960 --> 01:58:14,800
Speaker 3: a special thanks to Aristotle Assevedo for more information about

2201
01:58:14,840 --> 01:58:17,800
Speaker 3: the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash Bechtelcast