1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff to Blow Your Mind from how stuff 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: today we're gonna be talking about the science of personality assessments. 5 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: Uh and full disclosure, we wanted to let you know 6 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: that the reason we thought to do this topic today 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: was that How Stuff Works actually hired an audience research 8 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: firm to study our podcast audiences through surveys and statistical profiling. Yeah, 9 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: so if you took that survey that we put up 10 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: on Facebook, that's what that was all about. Yeah, unless 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: you think that this was just out of curiosity, you 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: should always keep in mind that marketers and advertisers want 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: to know everything about you, not because you're so interesting, 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: but because it helps them sell you snack boxes and underwear. Yes, 15 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: but anyway, they offered a personalized psychometric inventory for each 16 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: of the individual podcast audiences, so each podcast got their 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: own and it was based on a test originally compiled 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: by the Society for Personality and Social Psychology subdivision of 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,919 Speaker 1: the a p A. And I thought this was really cool, 20 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: Like they came up with a psychological profile. It was 21 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: basically a personality sketch that listed key personality traits that 22 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: were characteristics unique to each podcast audience. And so I 23 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: picked like five of the traits they listed as unique 24 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: to the archetypical stuff to blow your mind listener. So 25 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: I thought you guys might be interested in this. Yeah, yeah, 26 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: let's roll these out and then as we do, you 27 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,199 Speaker 1: can just think, well, to think yourself. Does that jive 28 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: with my outlook on life and how I view myself? Yeah, 29 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: so here we go. Number One, you tend to be 30 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: independent thinkers, hesitant to accept the statements of others without 31 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: adequate proof. Number two, you prefer a certain amount of 32 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: change and variety and become dissatisfied when himmed in by 33 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: restrictions and limitations. Three at times, you experience varying degrees 34 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: of social anxiety. Number four, you were motivated by a 35 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 1: strong desire for fairness and reciprocity in social situations. Five 36 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: at times, you have serious doubts as to whether you've 37 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: made the right decision or done the right thing. So, 38 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: before we get into the meat of today's episode, I 39 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: just wanted to mention that if you're a regular listener 40 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: and you want to let us know how accurately this 41 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: profile describes you. You can email us at blow the 42 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: Mind at how stuff works dot com and give us 43 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: feedback on on the sketch. And unfortunately, everything I just 44 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: said was made up. Yes, yes, this is a little 45 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: slice of fiction, a slice of necessary fiction to get 46 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: into our topic today. Yeah. So there was no audience survey, 47 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: no survey data. We just threw together that sketch from 48 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: a few pre existing generic descriptions. Hopefully nobody is upset 49 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: about it, but if you are, you can contact how 50 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: Stuff Works chief legal consultant Richard W. Glazer. That's right. Uh, 51 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: but be honest, now, were you thinking for a second, Yeah, 52 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: that sounds like me, I have to admit, when I've 53 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: read through them, even knowing that that we have just 54 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: made this up, I was thinking, Yeah, that's how I 55 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: view it. As a co host of the show. Yeah, 56 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: I am completely susceptible to this effect we're going to 57 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: talk about today. I think if I had been in 58 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: the audience's position here, I would have been like, Yep, 59 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: that describes me. I think, at least in the kind 60 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: of egotistical, self absorbed, self congratulatory way. We sometimes I'll 61 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: tend to be. I'm sure that I tend to be 62 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: on the inside. Uh. If you weren't convinced, congratulations for 63 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: being a skeptical no at all. But if you were convinced, 64 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: don't feel ashamed because you just displayed susceptibility to an 65 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: effect that shows up in most humans, no matter how 66 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: smart we are, and this is known as the former 67 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: effect fo r e er or the Barnum effect. Both 68 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: names refer to the exact same thing, and we'll probably 69 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: use the terms interchangeably today, but mainly we're gonna use 70 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: Barnum effect in the podcast because that's easier to say 71 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: out loud. So the Barnum version of the name comes 72 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: from the Circus Kingpin P. T. Barnum, and I'm thinking 73 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: it could be ascribed to two different quotes attributed to Barnum, 74 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: either that there's a sucker born every minute, which apparently 75 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: he did not actually say, or that Barnum had something 76 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 1: for everybody, and I think that latter one might be 77 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: what's key here. And if he didn't have something for everybody, 78 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: he wanted to sell a product, right, the circus product 79 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: is intended for a wide audience, and he wants to 80 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: draw in as many people's possible. Yeah, he's gotta he's 81 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: got to push those jugglers, you know. But the Forwer 82 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: title comes from the American psychologist Bertram Our Forwer, and 83 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: he noticed this effect in a classic paper he published 84 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: in the Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology in nineteen 85 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: forty nine. And this paper was called the Fallacy of 86 00:04:55,120 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: Personal Validation, A classroom demonstration of gullibility. Now, to give 87 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: you a little background on four Bertram R. Four He 88 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: was born in nineteen fourteen died in two thousand, American psychologist, 89 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: again famous for this personality test and his students. But 90 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: he served as a psychologist and administrator in a military 91 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: hospital in France during the Second World War, and then 92 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: he worked in l a at a veteran's mental clinic. 93 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: And also he had a private practice in Malibu. Yeah, 94 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: so what did Forer test with his students. Fourer had 95 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: previously discussed with his students a sort of proto personality 96 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: quiz called the Diagnostic interest blank or d i B. 97 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: And this was a qualitatively evaluated test that he explained 98 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: in the following language. He said quote, the d I 99 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: B consists of a list of hobbies, reading materials, personal characteristics, 100 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: job duties, and secret hopes and ambitions of one's ideal person. 101 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: The test is interpreted qualitatively and personality dynamics are inferred 102 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: along line similar to projective tests. So this is a 103 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be qualitatively evaluated by a perceptive and 104 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: trained professional, somebody who knows what they're doing. And some 105 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: of his students, when they heard about the test, asked 106 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: to take it. They wanted to take the d IB 107 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: and receive these tailored personality evaluations because you know, who 108 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: doesn't want to take a personality quiz and learn a 109 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: little bit about themselves? Right? I mean that's it just 110 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: speaks to our egos as well as you know, most 111 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: people's desires for self improvement. You know, we want to 112 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: we want we want to fill out that Dungeons and 113 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: Dragon's character sheet with our own attributes and figure out 114 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: what we need A tweak with a magical ring or two? Right? 115 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: I am chaotic neutral for real. So Fourer acquiesced to 116 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: their desire and a group of thirty nine students all 117 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: took the test and handed in their papers. And then 118 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: one week later Fourer met with the students again for 119 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: class and he handed back the individually tailored personalityty vignettes, 120 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: and each one was a list of thirteen perceived personality 121 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: attributes under the student's name, and the students were instructed 122 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: to keep the results private. That part was important because, 123 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: in fact, thirteen personality features listed on each student's paper 124 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with what the students wrote on 125 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: their test. Uh In fact, they were all exactly the 126 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: same for each one of the thirty nine students. So 127 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,239 Speaker 1: there were thirteen statements listed on each of these thirty 128 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: nine identical personality sketches, and we're gonna read through them 129 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: real quick. Number one, you have a great need for 130 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: other people to like and admire you. You have a 131 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: tendency to be critical of yourself. You have a great 132 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: deal of unused capacity, which you have not turned your advantage. 133 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: While you have some personality weaknesses, you were generally able 134 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: to compensate for them. Your sexual adjustment has presented problems 135 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: for you. Disciplined and self controlled outside, you tend to 136 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: be worrisome and insecure inside. At times, you have serious 137 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: doubts as to whether you've made the right decision or 138 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of 139 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: change in variety and become dissatisfied when himmed in by 140 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: restrictions and limitations. You pride yourself as an independent thinker 141 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: and do not accept other statements without satisfactory proof. You 142 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing 143 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: yourself to others. At times you were extroverted, affable, sociable, 144 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: while at other times you were introverted, wary, reserved. Some 145 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: of your aspirations tend to be pretty unrealistic. Security is 146 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: one of your major goals in life. So the brilliance 147 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: of these is that, like just going through them there, 148 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: knowing again that these are false, that these are just 149 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: you know, could be thrown out to anybody. I found 150 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: myself nodding my head and saying, yeah, I can, definitely 151 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: I can. If I don't buy that statement outright, I 152 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: can at least pick some data from my own personal 153 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: history that could support that theory. Yeah, and that is 154 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: exactly what the test ends up relying on. So for 155 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: reveals in a footnote of his pay or that quote, 156 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: these statements came largely from a new stand astrology book. 157 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: So he just found a horoscope and picked out random 158 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: statements that could apply to a capricorn a sagittarius, whoever 159 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: it is, and students were then asked to rate on 160 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: a scale of zero to five, with zero being poor 161 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: and five being perfect, the accuracy of the d I 162 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: B as a test, and then the accuracy of their 163 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: own individual sketch as a portrayal of their personality. And 164 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: then he also asked the students to go down the 165 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: list and mark each of the thirteen statements as true, false, 166 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: or question mark. Here were the results as rated by 167 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: the students. The d I B got only one three, 168 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: it got twenty five fours, and it got thirteen fives, 169 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: So thirteen students thought it was perfect, thought it was 170 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: really good, and one thought it was okay. So all 171 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: of the students but one gave the test a four 172 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: or five for accuracy. And then when it came to 173 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: the individual sketches, all but five students rated their sketch 174 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: of four or a five, So the students overwhelmingly thought 175 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: the test was pretty good, too perfect, And an interesting 176 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: thing for Or points out when comparing the student ratings 177 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: of the test and the sketch against their item by 178 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: item breakdown, is this quote for some individuals, the presence 179 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 1: of eight true statements among the thirteen was considered sufficient 180 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: evidence for acceptance of the sketch as perfect. M let 181 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 1: that sink in for a second, eight out of thirteen 182 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: is sixty two per cent. So for some students, even 183 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: with these extremely vague statements, just getting sixty two percent 184 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: right about them was enough for the test to count 185 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 1: as a perfect hit. Yeah, how does that? How does 186 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: that work? What's your definition of perfectnesses? Don't know? Well, 187 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: I think it comes down to something four explains in 188 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: his paper later about the discrepancy between our sort of 189 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: like qualitative or quantitative analysis of the results and then 190 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: the amount of confidence we're willing to attribute to a 191 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: diagnostic tool as a whole. But what happened here? I mean, 192 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: subsequent studies have repeatedly demonstrated the Barnum effect under various circumstances, 193 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: So it's pretty safe to assume that four students weren't 194 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: just particularly gullible. In Art Carroll's entry in the Skeptics Dictionary, 195 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: he claims, quote, the test has been repeated hundreds of 196 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: times with psychology students, and the average is still around 197 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: four point two out of five or eighty four percent accurate. 198 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 1: So why are we so eager to gobble up worthless 199 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: effectively random assessments of ourselves. Well as as we'll discuss 200 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: the you know, A lot of the answer lies in 201 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: the presentation. You know, where this test was was taken 202 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: and who has given it to them, and in the 203 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: language in which it was administered. Right, it's a psychology professor, 204 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: it's a you know, an authority figure administering this test 205 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: to the students in a classroom in a center of learning. Uh. 206 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: And it's wrapped in the expected psychological lingo. Yes, But 207 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: there's an even deeper issue going on with the nature 208 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: of these evaluations that makes them work. And it's based 209 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: on the interplay between two principles that four points out 210 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: in his paper. And Uh. He four is referring to 211 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: certain types of people like crystal gazers as one term 212 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: he uses. I think that means like somebody looking into 213 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: a crystal ball. He's talking about the psychics of his 214 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: day and and things like that. He says, they might 215 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: even unwittingly make use of these principles, but they are 216 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: making use of them. And the principles are universal validity 217 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: and personal validation. That his term is personal validation. But 218 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: today we might know this as subjective validation, and the 219 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: idea of universal validity is the it pretty much every 220 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: single psychological trait can be observed in some degree in everybody. 221 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: I mean, think about it like if I say, at 222 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: times you experience varying degrees of social anxiety. Yeah, that's 223 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 1: that's everybody. Yeah, yeah, with it with a few just 224 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: complete space aliens, you know, eliminated from the mix. Everybody 225 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,079 Speaker 1: deals with some level of anxiety. Right, So another way 226 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: of thinking about this is casting a wide net. And 227 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: you can see a very similar parallel practice if you 228 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: watch a psychic a group of people doing a cold 229 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: reading on a crowd. So the psychic might stand up 230 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: in front of a crowd and say, okay, I'm getting 231 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: something from a spirit, a spirit of someone known to 232 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: someone in the room. It's an older person, an older 233 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: person named John or Jack. Does that mean anything to anyone? 234 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: Something something starting with John or Jack, something starting with 235 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: the letter J. And then one hand goes and an 236 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: uncle named Jefferson exactly, Yeah, oh man, my uncle Jehosaphat 237 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: And then uh, and then the psychic says, yes, that's right, 238 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: Jehosaphat or Jefferson is here with us. And now we 239 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: can talk to Jeffer Josa Fat And then the client 240 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:20,359 Speaker 1: later says, Wow, the psychics somehow knew something about Jehosaphen, 241 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: when in fact the client has supplied the relevant specifics themselves. 242 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: The psychic was just trawling with a very large net. 243 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: It would be extremely weird if nobody in the room 244 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: knew of a deceased family member whose name started with Jay. Yeah. Yeah, 245 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: it's just the odds are with you that you're gonna 246 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: catch somebody with that very vague, very general bit of bait. Yeah. 247 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: But then the other principle is this principle of personal 248 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: or subjective validation. So how do you test the validity 249 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: of a diagnostic instrument, whether it's a horoscope or a 250 00:14:55,280 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: psychic or a supposedly professional and valid psychological personality test. 251 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: You probably don't want to test it by using it 252 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: on somebody and then saying how accurately did this describe you? 253 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: Because this is subject to what for would call the 254 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: fallacy of personal validation. Because you are you, and because 255 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: you know the story of your own life so well, 256 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: you can always find autobiographical hooks to hang almost any 257 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: statement on, especially vague and general statements. So we mentioned 258 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: the example a minute ago of social anxiety. Can you 259 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: ever think of an instance where social anxiety had a 260 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: meaningful role in your life? Yeah? Of course, Yeah, every day. 261 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: Even somebody who's not particularly anxious, who doesn't have many 262 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: problems with social anxiety, can think of an instance that 263 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: was meaningful to them. Yeah, at the very least they 264 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: were once children, and they had to within some point 265 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: in their life where they felt a little awkward. Yeah. 266 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: And so simply put, subjective validation is when you find 267 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: personal and unique accuracy in statements that could apply to 268 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: many or all people. Yeah. And part of this just 269 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: gets into our our our enormous capacity, uh, to place 270 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: ourselves in any story too, just the fact that we 271 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: are empathic organisms. Yeah, yeah, Um, we're always seeking meaning 272 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: that relates to us. This sort of ties into something 273 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: we talked about a while back in the Science of 274 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: Coincidence episode, where you know, we're pattern seeking creatures, and 275 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: we're constantly trying to find the pattern that means something 276 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, you know, you're talking about our ability 277 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: to even essentially put ourselves in the shoes of extreme cases. Um, 278 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: you know this This immediately makes me think of the 279 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: popularity of uh, you know, any kind of fiction that 280 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: deals with individuals with mental illness or in extreme cases, um, 281 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: serial murderers. You know, because if you have a well 282 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: executed serial killer story, um, you can still you still 283 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: end up investing yourself in that person on some level. 284 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: You end up empathizing with at least some aspect of 285 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: their you know, ultimately broken psyche. Right. Yeah, so if 286 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: you if you can connect with the serial killer's relationship 287 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: with his mother or something like that, you're like, oh, no, 288 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: is this really the story of me? Yeah, or like, uh, 289 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: I'm obviously thinking of Hannibal. Yeah, Hannibal actually came up 290 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: a couple of times in my mind. I'm looking through 291 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: the research here, Um, I think it was Joyce Carol 292 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: Oates has a book called Zombie that's essentially a retelling 293 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: of of the Jeffrey Dalmer uh case, but with you know, 294 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: fictionalized account and so even in this year, you're reading 295 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: in it and you can't actually empathize with the murderous 296 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: aspects of the main character. But ultimately it's about a 297 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: guy who feels lost in life and doesn't exactly know 298 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 1: where he fits, and you know, who can't empathize on 299 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: some level at some point in their their timeline with 300 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: an example like that, right, Yeah, in a way where 301 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: all that cannibal Yeah, it makes me wonder if you 302 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: if you administered a test like Forest test, and you 303 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: had all of the personality statements leaning more towards the 304 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: darker and the insane, like, what the acceptance level would be. Well, 305 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: there actually is some commentary on that in the literature, 306 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: and we can get to that in a bit. What 307 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: are some other studies that What have other studies revealed 308 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: about this, uh, this property? Well, there have been number one. 309 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: It's just been reproduced many many times. And the strength 310 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: of the effect varies when you change some of the 311 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: test conditions, and we can talk about that later, but 312 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: there's a pretty consistent result that the subjects of personality 313 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: assessments tend to rate assessments as highly accurate in a 314 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: way that's unique to them, even though the statements within 315 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: the assessment are vague in general, and sometimes even when 316 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 1: many of the individual statements in the list are subjectively 317 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: perceived as wrong by the client. Remember when we talked 318 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: about the people who got eight out of thirteen right, 319 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: said that the test described them perfectly. So what's the 320 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: impact of this in practice. Well, one of the things 321 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: that Forror was personally worried about was that this could 322 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: be used to validate or prop up the accuracy of 323 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: very bad tools. So let's say you're an unscrupulous psychic 324 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: or an unscrupulous psychotherapist. You can potentially use a combination 325 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: of subjective validation and universal validity to get a very 326 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: unhealthy amount of leverage over another person's common sense, and 327 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: the exchange might go something like this. The psychic or 328 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: unscrupulous psychologist makes a diagnosis of a person's personality, taking 329 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 1: advantage of these, you know, very vague general traits and 330 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: then leaning on the client's tendency towards subjective validation of 331 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: the test. The client reads these things like in the 332 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: test we talked about and says, yep, that's me, and 333 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: then assumes that the psychic or the unscrupulous psychologist has 334 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: access to powerful and accurate skills or diagnostic tools. Then 335 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: the psychic or unscrupulous psychologist makes bolder, more specific, less 336 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: credible diagnoses or or predictions that might not have been 337 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: accepted on the first go round. But at this point 338 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: the client thinks, well, he knew what he was talking 339 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: about the last time, so he must know this time. 340 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: I'm going to listen to him. Yeah, I mean it's 341 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: kind of a confidence trick, right, I mean, it's a 342 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: it's it's a matter of producing this sort of magical trick, 343 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: this illusion that proves to the patient or the the mark, 344 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: or however you want to want to look at them, 345 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: the customer, proves to them that you have insight into 346 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: who they are and what they're all about. And then 347 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: when they start making comments that that don't jive as well, 348 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 1: we just attribute it to their they know more about 349 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: us than we know about us. Yeah, I remember when 350 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 1: I was right last time. It's also very similar to 351 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: the con maneuver. If you're trying to con somebody out 352 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: of a large amount of money, say like, hey, invest 353 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: in my pyramid scheme. It'll you know, I can give 354 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: give you a million dollars. First you ask for a 355 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: very small investment, and then you pay out what you 356 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: promised on that small investment, and then they say, wow, okay, 357 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: well it seems to work. And so then when you 358 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: ask for a bigger investment, you can fly off to 359 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: Hawaii with the money you probably wouldn't fly to Hawaii? 360 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: Where would you fly to Cayman Islands or the Far 361 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: East I'm thinking, or the halls of Dagon. Yeah, always 362 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: a good place that it's tough to get the currency 363 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: exchanged properly there, but still still a good place. A 364 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: lot of hanging out in the depths, right, And this 365 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: can be applied to more different types of diagnostic tools 366 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: and instruments than you might think. I mean, so the 367 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: obvious ones we've talked about are like the personal powers 368 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: of a person who claims to be a psychic, or 369 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: a certain type of psychological test, any one of these 370 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: personality tests you can take. But other things might be 371 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: methods of discerning personality, These like graphology. Have you ever 372 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: heard about graphology? Not until preparing this episode now yes. 373 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: So So four claimed that he was prompted to perform 374 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: this experiment after he was accosted in a nightclub by 375 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: a graphologist. And a graphologist as a person who believes 376 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: they can tell you all about your personality by looking 377 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: at your handwriting. You know, this makes me think that 378 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: this nightclub was either really cool or are really lame, 379 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 1: Like there's no in between there If it involves being 380 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,719 Speaker 1: approached by a grapholo. It sounds pretty cool to me. 381 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: I never get approached by graphologists when I'm out having 382 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: a you know, at a bar or somewhere. I wish 383 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: I would be, because that would be really interesting. But yeah, 384 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: so graphology is widely considered a baseless pseudoscience, though I'm 385 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: sure some people still believe in it, and that's kind 386 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: of scary. But four wanted to demonstrate that he could, 387 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: with deliberately faulty techniques, produce assessments that clients would find 388 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: just as accurate as those provided by a professional graphologist. 389 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: So repeat the same pattern I talked about a minute 390 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: ago with the with the psychic or the unscrupulous psychologist, 391 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: where they proved themselves and the and the accuracy of 392 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,919 Speaker 1: their diagnostic tools with some very general, vague statements, just 393 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: relying on the fact that you're going to go, Wow, 394 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: yeah it sounds like me and Bam, Now grophology works 395 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: and I can get you to give me all your money. 396 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: Now you don't have to go to a graphologist or 397 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, or even listen to the intro to this 398 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: podcast to to have some introduction to the power of 399 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: the for effect um. And as we were chatting about this, 400 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: we kind of looked at at four different levels, Like 401 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: at the very bottom level, you have essentially horoscopes and 402 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 1: fortune cookies. And it's worth noting unfortune cookies that every time, 403 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: even though we know those are just coming from a 404 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: crate in the back of the Chinese restaurant, even though 405 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: we really don't attribute any literal significance to what's coming 406 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: out of the cookie, they still resonate of this because 407 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: we still, at least for a second, we just we 408 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: used to spend this belief just enough to engage in 409 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: a worldview where the future is more than mystery and chance. Right, yeah, absolutely, yeah, 410 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: I have to ask, what's your favorite fortune cookie you've 411 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: ever gotten? Um, years and years and years ago, I 412 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: got one that was said, one day you will write 413 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: a book. I was like, yeah, that's great, that's what 414 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: I want to do anyway, So, um so I kept 415 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: that on. It's like, now they predicted the age of 416 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: self publishing and then they were going to be right 417 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: about no matter who opened that cookie. That's true, but uh, 418 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: you know it, uh it was you know, even though 419 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 1: I knew it was a vague statement. It's kind of 420 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: like on some level, I took it as encouragement. Right, yeah, Oh, 421 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: I'm if I had gotten a fortune cookie that said 422 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: you will write a book, I would still have that 423 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: in my wallet and be like, Yep, I'm going to 424 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: be a writer someday. That's how important I am. Uh No, 425 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 1: my favorite fortune cookie I ever got was the one 426 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: that said constant grinding will wear the iron rod down 427 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: to a needle. Huh what does it mean? I'm not 428 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: quite sure. Like it's telling you not to file yourself 429 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: with the file you wear a mouth guard at night. 430 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: Because if I if I had gotten that one, I 431 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: would think, oh, well that was clearly forecasting that I 432 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: grind my teeth and would need to wear a night guard. Yeah, 433 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: well it could have been that. But look to it 434 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: and take that fortune if you still have it to 435 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 1: your dentist and say, look into it. I don't know. 436 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: My dentist is moderately humorless, but okay, yeah, so you have. 437 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: You have fortune cookies, which, like you point out, they're 438 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: especially funny because we give them the significance even though, 439 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: like let's say you're a person who believes in astrology, 440 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: the fortune cookie doesn't even aspire to the astrology level 441 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: because you know, they're all just pre printed ahead of 442 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: time and they're they're in a box. Yeah, so at 443 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: least the horoscope is the is the higher end of 444 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 1: this level because it's at least rooted in this system. 445 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: It's a system that doesn't have any validity to it. 446 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 1: But if you suspend disbelief or engage in a little 447 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: magical thinking, you can buy into the system and then 448 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: buy into the results of the system. Right, But that 449 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: was the first level. What's the next level? Then the 450 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: next level we think, Uh, then the next level we 451 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: think is, uh, the which X Men character are you? 452 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: And and not necessarily just the which X Men character, 453 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: but any of these various pseudo personality quizzes based in fiction. Uh, 454 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: that end up. You know, it seems like for a 455 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 1: while they were always rolling out on Facebook. Is like 456 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: every day it was a new one. And you take 457 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: this little, generally poorly executed quiz and generally with very 458 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: leading questions to determine which X Men character, which Twilight 459 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: character are you? Which which house and Harry Potter would 460 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: you be in? That's right? I am gambit, Yeah, yeah, 461 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: And it would have questions like what would be your 462 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: preferred weapon in a fight at Amantium clause or exploding 463 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: playing cards, and that's just cheating because then the person 464 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: is basically choosing which X Men character they want to 465 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: be and just picking. Yeah. I think one of the 466 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,360 Speaker 1: problems was there ended up being websites where you could 467 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: build your own, so people would just build them without 468 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: any any thought into what makes you know, makes it 469 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: seem like they work the better ones, and I think 470 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: the ones that were not user generated tended to feel 471 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: a little more like a personality test and it should 472 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: be a surprise when it tells you that you are 473 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: jug or not. And from from there we get into 474 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: the next level, which, of course the PSITE involves psychic 475 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: readings cold readings, where there's an actual intellect on the 476 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: other side of the test, drawing you in, conning you 477 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: with that, you know, with that with that little bit 478 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: of generally appliable UH data, and then making more specific 479 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: UH revelations visible about your your personal history and your 480 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: future and uh your departed loved ones in the afterlife. Yeah. There, 481 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: it's interactive and it's smart. The person knows what they're 482 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: doing and they're working you, you know, it's not just 483 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: like a kind of blank dumb statement that you have 484 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: to read into. They're helping you read into it actively. 485 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: And then, of course, in the level beyond that, you 486 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: have the quote professional personality test. This is, of course, 487 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: like Myers Briggs, the kind of test that a professional 488 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: might come into your workplace and actually administer the test 489 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 1: to everyone. Yeah, and we're certainly not saying that all 490 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 1: professionally administered psychological tests are bunk, that that's not the case. 491 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: What we are saying is that it's very possible for 492 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 1: a psychologist to design a personality assessment that is bunk 493 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: and you might very well not know it right. And 494 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: you know, I would go even even further and say 495 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: that I believe that people can use the cold reading 496 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: techniques and psychic reading techniques for an overall positive experience 497 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: with a person. But it kind of comes down to 498 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: that the question. You know, it's like, if you let 499 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: somebody go through the drawers in your house, are you 500 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,959 Speaker 1: going to trust them not to steal your civil way? Right? 501 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: So that I'm positive their individuals, I know, their individuals 502 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: who have had the experience with psych kicks and UH 503 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: and cold readers and individuals using this technique where they 504 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: at least feel that there is some sort of temporary, 505 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: at least positive result from the experience. Oh yeah, Well, 506 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: as I said earlier in this episode, despite the fact 507 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: that I'm aware of it and I'm gonna try to 508 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: be cautious about it, I think I'm very susceptible to this. 509 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: I think I could easily naturally be the kind of 510 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: person that falls for it. If you tell me, at 511 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: times you experience social anxiety, but also you're an independent thinker, 512 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, yeah, you know that is me. So 513 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: here's a big here's a big question that emerges. Are 514 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: there ways to make generic assessments feel more accurate to people, 515 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: to make sure that they're not instantating called out for 516 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: for the kind of generalities that that are that are 517 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: hallmark of this kind of manipulation. Yeah, I think the 518 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: first number one key principle is keep the descriptions as 519 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: vague and generally applicable as possible without it being too 520 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: obvious that they're meaningless. And this is a fine line 521 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: that that you have to walk with language if you're 522 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: going to try to be a deceptive no good diagnostician. Um, 523 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: so you wouldn't say, for example, you are an extrovert 524 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: or an introvert. I mean, obviously you're one of the two, right, 525 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: But you can say that without it being so clear. 526 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: I think it needs a little careful use of language. 527 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: So you would try something like you're often able to 528 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: find fulfillment in social events and relationships, but at times 529 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: you feel like you need to be by yourself. Now, 530 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: another possibility here comes to mind with the with the psychic, 531 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: we're talking like, if the psychic were to say there's 532 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: somebody in the room here who knew an old person 533 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: who died, like that sounds just really fake. But if 534 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: you were to phrase it more like somebody here lost 535 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: an individual, they were really just a strong presence in 536 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: their life. They were a real, you know, a personal hero, 537 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: kind of a mentor a rock for you. Yeah, like 538 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: you you change the way you're described, and you change 539 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: the thing a job of it and uh, and then 540 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: you might think, yeah, well, you know, my uncle Ben 541 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: was kind of like that without it just being like, 542 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: who's an old person I know that died. Oh, I 543 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: can choose from six, you know, but it's still general 544 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: enough that you could you can just throw that out 545 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: there and see what you catch. Yeah, you're you're creating 546 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: the illusion that you're narrowing the scope without really narrowing 547 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: it by much. So choose your words carefully. In fact, 548 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to highlight it's in the spirit of one 549 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: of my favorite quotes from Calvin and Hobbes, which is 550 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: when Calvin's he's talking about how he used to hate 551 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: writing assignments for school, but then he decides he loves 552 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: them because he says, quote, the purpose of writing is 553 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. 554 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: That's kind of true. So there are some specific words 555 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: that will be very useful to you, useful modifiers like some. 556 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: Isn't that a great word because some could mean anything 557 00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: from one percent to it includes all options except none 558 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: or all. Yeah, it's like saying, if you were to 559 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: say you're a real dirt bag, you're like, I don't 560 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: know if the psychic really knows me. Sometimes you're a 561 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: real dirt bag, and then you think, well, maybe I am. 562 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: You know, whether you're mostly a dirt bag or only 563 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: occasionally a dirt bag. That's true. Yeah, there's gotta be 564 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: at least some moment in your personal history where you're like, 565 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: I was kind of sliding towards the dirt bag level 566 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: of the stem on that one. Yeah, so that sometimes 567 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: some and then at times that's a great one because 568 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: at times that that sounds like psychological test language. At 569 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: the same time, you want to convince the mark here 570 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: that the Barnum profile is unique, right, And this was 571 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: key in Ford's experiment. Um uh. And he actually described 572 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: the following scene after he had collected feedback on the test. 573 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: He said he was going to read a list of 574 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: selected traits out loud, and if the students had the 575 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: trade on their profile, they needed to raise their hand. 576 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: After four read the first trade, every hand in the 577 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: room went up, and then the students burst out laugh thing. 578 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: The moment the students realized their profiles were not unique, 579 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: that's when they instantly knew the personality sketch was bunk. Right. 580 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: So in this we get into the whole fortune cookie scenario, Like, 581 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: if you know all the fortune cookies are the same, 582 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: the only way you're gonna get into it is if 583 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: you suspend disbelief or even just you know, it's hard 584 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: to even have the magical thinking cranked up high enough 585 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: to buy a fortune cookie. It's amazing how much that works. 586 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: I mean, even knowing what we know about fortune cookies, 587 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: not thinking they're magical. Imagine if you were sitting at 588 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: a table and everybody opened their fortune cookie at the 589 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: Chinese restaurant and they all had the same fortune on them, Like, 590 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: it wouldn't even feel as significant to you as it 591 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: normally does when you normally know it's not significant, right, 592 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: but if you have the at least the illusion that 593 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: has been personally prepared for you, like nobody does this. 594 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: But what if the fortune cookie chef came to your 595 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: table as if they were going to you know, customer, Yeah, 596 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: and you know, did some sort of you know, I 597 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: don't know, some sort of ritual, right, or you know, 598 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: did something scanned with some sort of device and then 599 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: read it out on a meter and then wrote it down. 600 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: You know, if you had tune preparation side fortune cookie preparation, 601 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: this could be big. This would allow you to to 602 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: perceive it as an individualized exercise and then you would say, 603 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: of course you would buy it, even if it's like 604 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: one of those really horrible fortune cookies that just throws 605 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: out some little adage rather than even attempting to to 606 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: forecast your future Yeah, so here's another one, be flattering, 607 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 1: flatter the person. One of the findings of a nineteen 608 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: literature review by Dixon and Kelly was that there's some 609 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: evidence that positive or favorable assessments are more readily accepted 610 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: as accurate. So if you're reading a list of traits 611 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: that are your feedback from the personality test you took, 612 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: if they're mostly negative, you're less likely to say this 613 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: is very accurate. Then if they're mostly positive, and it 614 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: doesn't have to mean that they're all positive. In fact, 615 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: I would think that might not work if they're all 616 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: just glowing reviews of you. So what I would do 617 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: if I was designing one of these is make it 618 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: eighty to nine percent really nice things about you and 619 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: then a couple of harmless criticisms. Yeah, you want to 620 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: have it. You know. It's kind of like buying a 621 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 1: character in fiction, right. They need to have some flaws, 622 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: they need to have some some some strengths. You need 623 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,879 Speaker 1: to be able to get behind the the idea that's 624 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: a real person, but they have to be overall likable 625 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: or nobody's going to buy them as the protagonist. Well, 626 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true for fiction. Because well, 627 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: who doesn't love Snake Pliskin. He has positive attributes. You know, 628 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: he's he stands up for what he believes in. He's 629 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,720 Speaker 1: true to himself. Yeah, and you know he's uh, he's 630 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: he's also true to his crew. That's important too. You know, 631 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 1: like when he gets out and he finally talks to 632 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: the president, you know, the first thing he says is, like, 633 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: these people, well, some of these people died for you. 634 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: You know, you gotta gotta stand by them. In the 635 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,320 Speaker 1: presidents too busy prepping, and that's where he decides to 636 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: tear up the tape. So yeah, yeah, yeah, but but yeah, 637 00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: when a character is just too unlikable, stintly comes to mind. 638 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 1: That show Last minut on Earth. I don't know if 639 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: you watched this Will Forte in the league playing the 640 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: this uh this man who survived after the apocalypse, and 641 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 1: it's and then he starts encountering random survivors. But he's 642 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: the center of it, and it's a good show. But 643 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: the character is so unlikable that I ended one of 644 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: the last episode I watched. I think I spent the 645 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: whole thing just hoping cannibal wanderers would show up and 646 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: eat him. Because it's like, I can't really get behind 647 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: him because he's so despicable. Oh man, I think of 648 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: this because just a couple of weeks ago, on July four, 649 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: we in our house watched Jaws, which we do everywhere 650 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: on July four. Yeah, but have you ever read the book? No, 651 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: I haven't. Every single character is detestable. There. There's not 652 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: a single even remotely likable character that I don't know. 653 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: I have no idea whether that was intentional or not. 654 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 1: But you just want the shark to eat them all weird, 655 00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 1: and they had to change it for the movie. It's 656 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: to imagine that now with as like lovable as Quint 657 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,439 Speaker 1: is in the movie. Yeah, that's weird. No I read. 658 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: I read Peter Benchley's Beast about the Giant Squid. But 659 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: that's the only Benchley book I've ever read. Yeah, I've 660 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: never ventured into the Benchley deep cuts. That's that's the 661 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: only cut I've listened to. But it was fun in 662 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: the day, somebody fights a giant squid of the chainsaw. Wait, 663 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: let's get back. Oh yeah, yeah, we have one more. 664 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: And this one is pretty simple project high status and 665 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: scientific authority. It kind of like, if you put this 666 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: in the guise of the psychic reader or the magician, 667 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: Like where a fancy cloak, have a cool beard, right, Like, 668 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 1: drape yourself in the authority of the station you're in. 669 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: And if you're trying to, uh to pull this off 670 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: as like a personality assessment thing, like, have some sort 671 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: of scientific authority to you throw out some scientific lingo, 672 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: have some sort of gadget that you will whip out 673 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: at your table side fortune cookie preparation, right. I I 674 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: actually tried to incorporate this into the little deception I 675 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,399 Speaker 1: used at the beginning of the episode when I said 676 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: that the test we used was a survey created by 677 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: the Society for Personality and Social Psychology subdivision of the 678 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: A p A, which is a real subdivision. Don't know 679 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: if they've ever created a test, but if it sounded 680 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,800 Speaker 1: accurate because you're throwing out some some some jargon, throwing 681 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: out the name of an organization in your mind kind 682 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: of stops listening and just sort of checks it off, like, yeah, 683 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,919 Speaker 1: that sounds that sounds accurate. Yeah. Now, there of course 684 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: a number of positives here. As we was, we touched 685 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: on you know, you can have fun with a fortune cookie. 686 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 1: You can enjoy your horoscope. You can. People love these 687 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: online personality quizzes. Yeah, you can appreciate the you know, 688 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: some sort of personal satisfaction in finding out that you're 689 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: Wolverine um. And in some cases I maintain you can 690 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,359 Speaker 1: you know, and the right kind of psychic can can 691 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: get inside your head a little bit and have a 692 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: positive effect on you. I mean you could argue that 693 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: to a certain experient therapists. You're using the same the 694 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: same devices, they're just using it with some sort of 695 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 1: ethical um structure employe. Oh yeah, this is a thing 696 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: that is I've read pointed out about some psychics before, 697 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 1: like it doesn't have to be true that they have 698 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,879 Speaker 1: psychic powers, like the paranormal doesn't have to exist for 699 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: them to perhaps have insights that are useful to you. 700 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: So there's an actually a really good article on this, 701 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:15,920 Speaker 1: and I'll link to this in the landing page for 702 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,319 Speaker 1: this episode. Susan Krauss a Whitburn's when it comes to 703 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: personality test, a dose of skepticism is a good thing. 704 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: And this is from Psychology Today, and she presents first 705 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: of all, the dark side of the for effect um 706 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: as as really coming down the key three key at things. One, 707 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: it allows others to scam you out of money, right 708 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 1: because because of that thing for mentioned where if if 709 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: it works on you once, now you have logged in 710 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: your brain. Okay, this device is worth trusting. And that 711 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,759 Speaker 1: device could be a particular test, could be the apology, 712 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 1: could be a psychic on TV, could be an advertising 713 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,799 Speaker 1: um slogan, you know, like, oh, they really kind of 714 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: got into who I am. They know who I am, 715 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: I should buy this champoo. Um. Number two, it makes 716 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: you more susceptible to bad advice. You kind of touched 717 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: them that already, but yeah, they're they're they're in your head. 718 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,800 Speaker 1: You're you're trusting them, and now they can start telling 719 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,759 Speaker 1: you all sorts of horrible things. And then the number three, 720 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,879 Speaker 1: it makes you less susceptible to good advice that isn't 721 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: as lubricated. Oh man, So if somebody so, let's say 722 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: you take a very well designed psychology test that gives 723 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: you a good profile of your personality that has all 724 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: kinds of specifics that aren't as well packaged as these 725 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: vague generalities you would get in another test, you might 726 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 1: actually not trust the good feedback. Yeah, or imagine the 727 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 1: pyramid scheme guy. You know, like he's coming up, he's 728 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 1: buying your drinks. He's really laying it on thick. You're 729 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 1: really buying into what he's selling because he's selling it 730 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,320 Speaker 1: so well, and he's he's already gained your trust. Meanwhile, 731 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 1: your actual accountant is saying, hey, you really need to 732 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: be careful about these investments. But your actual accountants kind 733 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: of boring and you can make yourself and he doesn't. 734 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: His information isn't as well lubricated as that of the charlatan. 735 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:03,360 Speaker 1: So she has for key recommendations to avoid the pitfalls, 736 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:04,719 Speaker 1: just to you know, just to keep it in your 737 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 1: mind as you're moving through life. Number one, No a 738 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: fortune cookie when you see one. Obviously that's that's my 739 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: summation of this particular one. But yeah, like you know 740 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,720 Speaker 1: what you're dealing with. Yeah, beyond the lookout for statements 741 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: they're universally valid and recognize them as such. Right, Yeah, 742 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: that's the second way you look for evidence of validity. 743 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,279 Speaker 1: Read between the lines, look for that ambiguity we've been 744 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: talking about. Is this a statement that could apply to anyone? 745 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 1: And I'm just grabbing onto the bait. And then finally 746 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: trust actual professionals as opposed to advertisements and TV psychics? No, no, no, 747 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: wait no, maybe you haven't encountered my favorite TV psychic. Uh, 748 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,879 Speaker 1: doctor you're so great? Now, Doctor you're so great, has 749 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,719 Speaker 1: some really interesting things to say about how smart I am. Yeah, yeah, 750 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: doctor you're so Yeah. Well they can they can be 751 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: very convincing. I you know, I don't watch as much 752 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: TV these days, and out, like you know, the old days, 753 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 1: you turn on the TV and you just had to 754 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,839 Speaker 1: absorb what it gave you. So I don't even know 755 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,440 Speaker 1: what's out there. Are there other YouTube psychics the way 756 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 1: there used to be TV psychics? I would hope so. 757 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: But like, there was the guy with the gray plastic hair. 758 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: Do you remember him? No? What is that? Oh goodness, 759 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 1: I should have. I should have thought to look him 760 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,800 Speaker 1: up before the podcast episode. But he had it was 761 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: like this just normal looking, kind of doughey dude, and 762 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 1: he had hair that was singingly made out of plastic. 763 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 1: I just googled psychic gray plastic hair and the first 764 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: result is Dorian gray syndrome. M Well, now I'm even 765 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: more intrigued as that he may have This man may 766 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 1: have suffered from some sort of disorder than involved in 767 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,759 Speaker 1: aging painting. But but certainly there was just a whole 768 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,760 Speaker 1: world's gallery of TV psychics back in the day. Certainly, 769 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:49,160 Speaker 1: but you know they're each unique one and all. Yeah. Um, 770 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,560 Speaker 1: but again there's still the other positive side to this 771 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 1: is that allows us to really get into our music, right. 772 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course. We were talking about this the 773 00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:02,400 Speaker 1: other day with the the general miracle themes of pop music, 774 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,799 Speaker 1: and I was thinking about this in contrast to the 775 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 1: way you handle specificity versus generality and fiction. If you're 776 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: writing a short story or novel or something like that, 777 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,319 Speaker 1: you don't want to sketch characters in a general way. 778 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 1: You want to sketch them in a specific way, to 779 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: have interesting, unique details that make them who they are. 780 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,799 Speaker 1: For some reason, in fiction we connect better with specifically 781 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 1: drawn characters. But in pop music, very often, if you 782 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,279 Speaker 1: look at the lyrics, they are utterly devoid of specifics. 783 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 1: They are they're they're doing this game where you paint 784 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:39,240 Speaker 1: in extremely vague generalities that could apply to almost any 785 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: person at any time, and people do seem to respond 786 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: to that. Yeah, because often the generalities are you know, 787 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 1: kind of mantras that you can get behind, Uh, you know, 788 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,320 Speaker 1: statements of power like like I remember, like when I 789 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 1: would listen to like Nine Nails in high school, there 790 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,799 Speaker 1: would be you know, it seems like in more than 791 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:57,839 Speaker 1: one song you would throw in that line nothing could 792 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,319 Speaker 1: stopped me now, you know, and kind of a you know, 793 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,879 Speaker 1: dark Gothy Nine Nails la. But you listen to me like, yeah, 794 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: nothing can stop me now you kind of pumping yourself 795 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,280 Speaker 1: up with it. This is about my life, yeah, because 796 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,960 Speaker 1: I am facing a challenge that I should not be 797 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 1: stopped from. How did he know so much about me? 798 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 1: Trent just knows. Trent Trent is a man of insight. Um. Likewise, 799 00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 1: another one for me several years back, like a definite 800 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,359 Speaker 1: pop example, the band LaRue had a track Bulletproof, where 801 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,360 Speaker 1: the chorus was next time baby, I'll be bulletproof. And 802 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,279 Speaker 1: I don't know what's even possibly specifically about, but even 803 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:33,360 Speaker 1: you know, I would listen to and it was a 804 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,400 Speaker 1: catchy tune and I would think, Yeah, I'm gonna be bulletproof. 805 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 1: You can't stop me? Yeah, the same kind of it's 806 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,400 Speaker 1: the same. Yeah, it's the Trent principle, the tread principle. 807 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:46,799 Speaker 1: How about yourself? Any pop songs that resonate with you. Yeah, 808 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,640 Speaker 1: just looking back in my history in my music player app. 809 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,320 Speaker 1: I think it's funny looking at the contrast between different 810 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,240 Speaker 1: types of lyrics. Like one of the things I see 811 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,240 Speaker 1: is Lauretta Lens don't come home a drinking with Loving 812 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,959 Speaker 1: on your mind, which I mean that's a pretty specific song, 813 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,879 Speaker 1: like that tells a specific story. On the other hand, 814 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,600 Speaker 1: you've got don't stop thinking about Tomorrow. Yeah, I mean 815 00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,359 Speaker 1: that's how much more general could it be? You could 816 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,480 Speaker 1: be like, wow, they really, they really got me because 817 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the weekend or that you know, I'm 818 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,520 Speaker 1: going to get something done tomorrow. The mac knows, the 819 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 1: mac knows how we think, right, and of course that 820 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,840 Speaker 1: that that does underlign like the two big trends in 821 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,279 Speaker 1: song like you have those those ultra specific songs or 822 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: even narrative songs. Yeah, Like I'm thinking like Gordon Lightfoot 823 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 1: type of vibe where you're telling a very definite story 824 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,480 Speaker 1: about a particular scenario and with its own ups and downs. 825 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 1: And then on the other side, don't stop thinking about tomorrow. 826 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 1: The generic anthems that you can just copy and paste 827 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:49,680 Speaker 1: your life onto. Indeed, the classification of anthems is key alright, Sody, 828 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 1: you have it, the for effect, the Barnum effect, whatever 829 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 1: you want to call it, it's all around us. It's 830 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,799 Speaker 1: it's in our it's in our religious lives, it's in 831 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,719 Speaker 1: our secular lives. It's in our advertising, it's in uh, 832 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 1: it's in our our culinary taste. So we know that 833 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,960 Speaker 1: everyone has has something to share on this particular topic. 834 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,040 Speaker 1: So we'd love to hear from you. In the meantime, 835 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:12,799 Speaker 1: check out stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That 836 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,279 Speaker 1: is the mothership. That's where you'll find all the episodes. 837 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 1: You'll find blog post videos, you'll find links out to 838 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 1: our social media account. We're on Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr. 839 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:23,239 Speaker 1: And if you want to let us know how you 840 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,520 Speaker 1: reacted initially to our story about the audience survey, or 841 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: if you want to tell us a story you have 842 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,720 Speaker 1: about somebody falling for the horror effect or the Barnum effect, 843 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,000 Speaker 1: you can let us know at blow the Mind at 844 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:40,680 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. For more on this and 845 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com