1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. Hello, welcome back to the show. My 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called me Ben. 6 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: We're joined with our guest superproducer, Max free Train Williams. 7 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you. You are here and that 8 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. 9 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: Great opening question for anybody on our first date. Have 10 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: you ever tried to contact the dead? Just say it, 11 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: like as you're sitting down at the olive garden and 12 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: see how it goes. Tell us your results over some breadsticks. 13 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: If you'll place your hands on the bread of the 14 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: bowl of breadsticks at the same time, it can kind 15 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: of act as a summoning sort of like what do 16 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: you call that an amplifier of your summoning to breasticks? Yeah, 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: the breadstick to leave the breadsticks like time are endless. Look, 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: since before the dawn of recorded history, for millennia, thousands 19 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,839 Speaker 1: thousands of years, people have tried to speak with the dead, 20 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,199 Speaker 1: and a lot of them believed themselves to be successful. 21 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: The motivations, the methods change over time. They're all sorts 22 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: of ways to sort of hack reality, but the concept 23 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: is always the same at its core. Pierced the mortal veil, 24 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: you get a glimpse at the number one mystery of 25 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: human existence, what happens after we are gone from this plane? 26 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: And today we're looking at one of the most well 27 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: known contraptions for allegedly making this contact. If you're from 28 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: the US, you've heard about it. If you're not from 29 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: the US, you're in for a treat. We're talking about 30 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: the wija board. Here are the facts. I guess first, 31 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: what is a wija board. I mean, it's a thing. 32 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: It's sort of a facsimile, like a mass marketed, scaled 33 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,919 Speaker 1: facsimile of a real thing known as a spirit board 34 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: UM with that little guy in the middle that you 35 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: put your hands, and there's a name for those, like 36 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: a radical or redicule or something like that, or a 37 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: little hole in it that shows the letter. There are 38 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: probably another other other names for a planchet, perhaps plan 39 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: Chet's the little the device you use the yes um 40 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: and often will go to a pointer, but some versions 41 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: do have like that aperture or that as you said, 42 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 1: redicule where the plan chet will go over the thing 43 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: and you look at the letter in the center, but 44 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: I think a lot of times it's it's point and 45 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: shoot and real deal ones of these from well, we 46 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: will go into the history off like the actual maybe 47 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: a little bit of the actual spirit boards, but they 48 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: probably could have been carved from wood, you know, or 49 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 1: like really hand painted bespoke one. And you'll even see 50 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: those like modern ones of those that you know, artists 51 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: maybe on Etsy or you know, and like a cool 52 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: art market will have done by hand. End of the show, 53 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: Jeremy Muxworthy, fantastic Atlanta artist, actually hand the designed a 54 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: really awesome spirit board. But the most important thing is 55 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: that on this board there are numbers, usually zero to nine, 56 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: and letters whichever alphabet usually the one. At least the 57 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: ones I've encountered are English. I'm assuming you could have 58 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: that in any language if you only had you know, 59 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 1: around twenty six characters, right, because the boards, the boards 60 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,839 Speaker 1: need to fit the entire alphabet on it in order 61 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: for it to function the way it's supposed to function. 62 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: Oh and there's also a yes and no, yes and no. 63 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: Great totally and that's a great point about languages that 64 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: don't have the same kind of construction as like a 65 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: Latin language. If you're looking at a language that uses idiograms, 66 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: then you get to a point where you have to 67 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: kind of restrict what sort of questions can be asked 68 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: or the nature of responses, which doesn't make it less valid. 69 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: It just it's something to be aware of. And Noli, 70 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. The plan chet it's the only time 71 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: I get to use that word in English. It's like 72 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: a little harder teardrop shaped piece of anything. It just 73 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: needs to be something people can safely put their fingers 74 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: on and move it around. And if you've used this before, 75 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: you've seen it depicted in countless pieces of media. The 76 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: reason people are, as we said in our group text earlier, 77 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: a fear of weiji boards is most likely due to 78 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: a film that came out in nineteen seventy three, The Exorcist, 79 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 1: the adaptation of that novel. Before then, and we're about 80 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: to get to the history. Before then, this was all 81 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: well and good. It was fun for people. Look, basically, 82 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: you probably know how the weiji board works, or how 83 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: a spirit or talking board works. So there's the other 84 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: street names for this thing. You get some people together, 85 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: there have to be at least two people operating it, 86 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: and you ask the general vibe of the universe or 87 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: a specific unseen entity questions. It can take up to 88 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: five minutes. If the contact is successful, something weird will happen, 89 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: a thing will answer, and so you'll be sitting there 90 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: with your friends, and all of a sudden, the planchet 91 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: will seem to move towards symbols on the board. It 92 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: could spell out words, it could indicate numbers, It could 93 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: agree or disagree, give you a yes or no, and 94 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: so on. And usually if you're experimenting with these things, 95 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: you know, you might have three four people there, and 96 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: the effect only increases because everybody starts accusing another person 97 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: of moving the thing on purpose. Well, that's that's an 98 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: interesting point because you know, a lot of times we 99 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: think of sciences and all that kind of through the 100 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: lens of hucksters and folks trying to kind of extract 101 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: money from, you know, people in mourning, you know, through 102 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: parlor tricks and like Pepper's Ghost, you know, a project 103 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: actions and all of that kind of stuff. But it's 104 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: like this, Usually there's no there's no game of foot 105 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: in that respect, this is like a group of people 106 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: that are all kind of either doing this on a lark, 107 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: you know, just to kind of like see what happens, 108 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: or maybe there's a practitioner that's brought it to the 109 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 1: table literally speaking. But you wouldn't really necessarily think about this' 110 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: in those same terms unless I'm missing something. Well, I 111 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: think we're It's a little complicated, and we're going to 112 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: get into that a little later as we move forward 113 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: through this story about like how it's been used and 114 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: the people who've profited from it, you know, and maybe why. 115 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: But but yeah, no, I mean, I think it's a 116 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: big part of it, Noel, But if you don't, if 117 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: you guys don't mind, I'd love to stay on the 118 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: history a little bit more, just on the old just 119 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: the reason we know what a weegiboard is and how 120 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: we got to the thing that you can go and 121 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: buy right now called a wig aboard. Matt, I'm you know, 122 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: I'm ten toes down for this one. I love I 123 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: love weird history in general. So what's the weird history 124 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: of the weech Oh, well, it's the it's a thing 125 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: that we have talked about on this show. Before when 126 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: it comes to contacting the other side, whatever that might be. 127 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: And it's a thing called automatic writing, which is almost 128 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: a meditative state of sorts that you can put yourself in, 129 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: or some practitioners of automatic writing would put themselves in 130 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: and attempt to connect with something somewhere on some other 131 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: side and have that thing channel through their arm into 132 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: a usually a pencil or a pen and write something 133 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: or draw something right, Okay, So in that case there 134 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: would be kind of a practitioner that would be the 135 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: conduit for this, and it certainly, you know, there could 136 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: be someone who's a true believer doing this and maybe, 137 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: you know, with whatever varying results, or it could be 138 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: someone just making it up right right. Yeah. To know 139 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: the difference between those two proposed groups, we would have 140 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: to know the inner motivation of the person who's functioning 141 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: as the conduit. But the idea of automatic writing, which 142 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: is really sort of like scrying if you think about it, 143 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: it dates back so far. The earliest mentions go all 144 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: the way back to ancient China around eleven hundred CE 145 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: during the Song Dynasty, but sources also trace it back further. 146 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: No one's quite sure when the first thing happened because 147 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: humans have always wished to commune with the dead. So 148 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: you can find claims that something like this was around 149 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: in five fifty one BC, also in China, or trace 150 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: it back to the days of ancient Rome. People will say, hey, 151 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: even Pythagoras was down with something like this in Greece. 152 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: But anyway, in China, surprisingly enough, for quite some time 153 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 1: this practice was considered a sort of necromancy, but it 154 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: wasn't It didn't have Necromancy was not the bad word 155 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: it is today. It was sort of thought of as 156 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: a research technique, you know, like the learned people of 157 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: the era would be interested in science, and they'd also 158 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: be interested in talking with ghosts. It was a not 159 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: uncommon practice for a while and several several prestigious institutions 160 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: until it was forbidden by the Qing dynasty. Who you know, 161 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: everybody knows your total fun police Ben. Have you heard 162 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: of the Japanese version of the Uiji board? It's called 163 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: kukuri san, Yes, but I've never used one. Yeah, I 164 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: certainly either. I really just found out about it, and 165 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: it's it's it's featured in some you know, manga and 166 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 1: pop culture stuff in films, but it actually apparently it's 167 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: very similar to Luigi World, but it obviously uses Japanese 168 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 1: characters and you use kind of more of a coin, 169 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: and the name Kitsune comes from a combination of like 170 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: the spirit animals that supposedly are answering you from the 171 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: spirit world, the Kitsune, which is a fox spirit the 172 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: dog or the coup, and the Tanuki, which is the reef. 173 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 1: So it's sort of like a combination of these things. 174 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: But you use a ten yen coin. And apparently it 175 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: came to Japan because of sailors who brought some of 176 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 1: those seance things that we were talking about, something called 177 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: table turning, and since like tables weren't as much of 178 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: a thing in Japan, they had to kind of improvise, 179 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: and then this game was kind of created. And there's 180 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: a there's a site that I found that says, never 181 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: play the game alone, never play the game as a prank, 182 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: try not to play if you're scared or mentally insecure. 183 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: So probably good advice in general, I mean, depending on 184 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: your belief system. But I thought table turning was strictly 185 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: a restaurant you know, service industry things, so this, um, yeah, 186 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: but that just that just goes to show again it's 187 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: very old, very common practice in the human species, and 188 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: it's across the world. The Uigia board is most famous, 189 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: I think in the US and in parts of Western Europe. 190 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: We're going to learn why the modern wigia board has 191 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: its root in the spiritualist movement of the eighteen hundreds. 192 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: Which all you need to know for this episode about 193 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: the spiritualist movement in the eighteen hundreds, folks, is this. 194 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: It was that time people in the Western world got 195 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: super duper into ghosts, and the Smithsonian has some great 196 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: points about this. Spiritualism came around in Europe before it 197 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: hit the US in eighteen forty eight, due in large 198 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: part to siblings known as the Fox Sisters. And they said, look, 199 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: we are mediums. We're getting messages and the spirits for 200 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: some reason, who are we to judge? They communicate by tapping. 201 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: They don't talk to us except through these taps, and 202 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: we can channel them. Will come and do a live 203 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: show with you, say the Fox Sisters and basically translate 204 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: the taps. I mean, really it's more like just answering 205 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: yes and no and that kind of thing. But still 206 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: there's a media translating from the other side, go speak 207 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: in binary code apparently or morse. Yeah, they're intercessions, right, 208 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: which is also common in a lot of other spiritual 209 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: belief systems. But it's interesting that the Weigia board becomes 210 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: the translator, right, So you've moved away from a person 211 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: translating to a piece of wood and now we've got 212 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: chat GPT. Yeah. It's sort of like the move from 213 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,839 Speaker 1: Catholicism to Protestantism, where like you know, in Catholicism or 214 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: like hardcore Catholicism, the conduit has to be a priest, 215 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: you know, or a high member of the clergy, but 216 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: then it's sort of given to the people. As I know, 217 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: you can be your own conduit to God, and saints 218 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: of course can also intercede in any Catholic faith and 219 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: in other the saint analogs in other faith systems will 220 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: do this. That's that's the thing. Spiritualism was could be 221 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: seen as sort of a fad historically, but it could 222 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: also be seen as a um a religious system of 223 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: a sort, maybe a little less dogmatic. But it's not 224 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: to say there weren't different different individuals trying to create 225 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: their cults of personality, some with great success anyway, So 226 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: the Fox Sisters basically they're celebrities. They're like the eighteen 227 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: hundred version of TikTok stars, and people hear about this, 228 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: it gets in the national press. Spiritualism at its peak 229 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: has millions of people who are super into it, consider 230 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 1: themselves spiritualists, and don't feel it conflicts with their pre existing, 231 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 1: you know, more mundane beliefs, like hey, I'm a Christian, 232 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: but I'm also a spiritualist. So you know, Saturday night 233 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: we're doing the seance and Sunday I'm at church. In 234 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: this In this time, seances were thought of kind of 235 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: like cool party games, you know, like what's that game 236 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: when play where you have to guess trivia with your 237 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: phone and you hold it up fo Yeah, heads up? 238 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: Heads up? Okay, Yeah, how did I miss that one? Yes, 239 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: so Ellen DeGeneres invented it. Apparently not me. I was 240 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: not aware of that. Yeah. But the idea is that 241 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: a seance was not seen as an inherently dangerous thing. 242 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: It was like playing hands opera trivia with your friends. 243 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: And a lot of what we know about the Wuigia board, 244 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: we know it gets its popularity during this time, but 245 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: for quite a while. The origins of this thing were 246 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: pretty murky in the modern day. As a matter of fact, 247 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: in all of I don't know about you guys, but 248 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: in all the research I looked into, the number one 249 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: historian or the Luigia board who keeps coming up is 250 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:48,239 Speaker 1: Robert murch And he's been focused entirely on this specific 251 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: aspect of history since the nineties nineteen nineties. I should say, 252 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: as far as I could tell, he's human. You know, 253 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: it's funny, Ben, you're saying that about like it was 254 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: kind of considered like a parlor trick or like sort 255 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: of like a fun part game. The Japanese version of it, 256 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: it just seems like from the very get go, it's 257 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: like this is dangerous to be careful, tread lightly. And 258 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: it's the same as you know, when you see Japanese 259 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: ghosts depicted in in film and pop culture, they're usually 260 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: pretty malevolent and and and psychotic. There aren't really like 261 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: friendly ghosts in the Japanese Pampeon correct me if I'm wrong. 262 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: I know you know more about that that world than 263 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: I do. For sure. It's a it's a it's a wide, 264 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: wide unseen world, and they're yeah, they're they're not all 265 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: rough characters. But uh, but also how much of that 266 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: is marketing? You know? That's fair? Like how dangerous is this? Right? 267 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: Because that's what gets people excited, you know now, Like 268 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: if you're choosing between Yazzi at Awegia board, you know, 269 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: and you're a kid, don't you kind of want the 270 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: one that has a hint of danger. I don't know. 271 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. I haven't gotten really deep into Yatzi. 272 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: I don't know much about it. You guys, probably every 273 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: time dude roll the dice or contact the dead, right, 274 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: that's a better way to phrase it. Well, we also 275 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: have a speaking to the points we're raising here. We've 276 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: got a couple of quotes from Merch that I think 277 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: would be it would be worth sharing with our fellow 278 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: conspiracy realist. So Robert Merch, as he said, who was 279 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: a pioneer in studying this kind of phenomenon, had this 280 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: to say quote, communicating with the dead was common. It 281 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: wasn't seen as bizarre or weird. It's hard to imagine 282 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: that now we look at that and think, why are 283 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: you opening the gates of hell? Uh? And and Merch 284 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: has really been a big part of kind of tracking 285 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: down the true history of the modern Guiji board. It 286 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: goes back to a company much like Mattel, you know, 287 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: called Kennard Novelty Company, as well as as a tie 288 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: in with some of the absolute horrific atrocities of the 289 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: Civil War. Well, yeah, I think there's so much of 290 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: this popularity of the budge aboard that comes from the 291 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: Civil War. I really really think so. And I think 292 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: that's what Merch is saying here, because so many human 293 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: beings died during that conflict that it is very likely 294 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,959 Speaker 1: that you or you know someone you love lost at 295 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: least one person in that Civil War. Right around two 296 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: percent of the entire population of the United States was 297 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: wiped out during the Civil War, and there were only 298 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: thirty one to thirty two million people within the United 299 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: States at that time. So if you've got all those 300 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: people that are dead, you you know, individuals loved all 301 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: of those people, right, and the desire to contact them 302 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: has got to be super high. Around that time, We're 303 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: talking the eighteen sixties, mid eighteen sixties, post the Civil War. 304 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: The spiritual movement arose in the eighteen forties, just twenty 305 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 1: years before that. There's a really interesting confluence here of 306 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: a way to contact dead people and then a whole 307 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: bunch of dead people. And I think that was an 308 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: opportunity that was that was seen right a little bit 309 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: after the Civil War. Yeah, and nationwide agglomeration of cottage 310 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: industries to satisfy this desire arise across the US. Mediums 311 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: start marketing their services in every major city. You could imagine. 312 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: They're also traveling like old school circuit revivalist or circuit judges, 313 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: and the Associated press is around. It's a new kid 314 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: on the block in the late eighteen hundreds, and in 315 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty six they publish a report on what are 316 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: called talking boards. A bunch of spiritualist camps in Ohio 317 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: have started in using these things, and the name Luigia 318 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: does not exist yet. There's a Baltimore guy, his name's 319 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: Charles Kennard, and he says, hmm, I've read the paper 320 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: and I sends a bit of coin here, and I 321 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: don't need a luigion board to divine that. So he 322 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: gets four other investors, a guy named Elijah Bond who 323 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: is later really big in the story. He's a local 324 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: attorney at the time and a surveyor, veteran named Colonel 325 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: Washington Bowie and they start the Kennard Novelty Company. Important 326 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: to note these guys personally were not super duper into ghosts. 327 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: They were super duper into making money, and they recognize 328 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,719 Speaker 1: this as an opportunity. I mean, we could do a 329 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: whole weird limited series really on the history of the 330 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: Luigia Board. But if you want to learn more, check 331 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: out Robert Merch's work, including the story of William Fold 332 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: and how the Luigia Board got that strange name. Just 333 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: real quick. So, Fold's sister in law is a medium. 334 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: In one night in eighteen ninety in Baltimore, they're experimenting 335 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: with this talking board set, and she asked the board 336 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 1: what they should call it. The planchet apparently spelled out 337 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: wuija o ui ja, which and then she said, was 338 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 1: that mean? And it told her it means good luck 339 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: in Egyptian. That is not also not the Egyptian word 340 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: for good luck as far as we know, or the 341 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: common the early eighteen hundreds. No, this is mid kind 342 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: of yeah late, actually yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so 343 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 1: this is I was just thinking Baltimore is kind of 344 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: the spooky place. You know, there's there's there's got there's 345 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: got some serious vibe. That's also where like Edgar Allan 346 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: Poe came up. Um, so you certainly think of Baltimore 347 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: of that era as this almost love craft Ian kind 348 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: of European spooky kind of place, you know, sort of 349 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: like Boston. Yeah, haunted by the ghosts of millions of 350 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: delicious crabs Baltimore indeed, indeed so right, So just that 351 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: point eighteen ninety, it's not that long after the Civil War, 352 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: it's not that long after spiritualism becomes a thing. It 353 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense that the popularity of this 354 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: talking board is already on the rise, and then it's 355 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: being manufactured by somebody and Ben you you got to 356 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: William Fold, right, that was that becomes the big person. 357 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: What did Fold end up doing? Fuld ends up inquiring 358 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: patents with the from Kennard, so he ends up taking 359 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: over kind of the Weiger project, which is why he 360 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: is so closely associated with it today. And we see 361 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 1: this cycle happen pretty often in human history. In the 362 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,959 Speaker 1: wake of a great tragedy, people look for some method 363 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: of communication because humans are primarily gregarious, communicative creatures. So 364 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: it does make sense, and I think it's important for 365 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: us to know these guys who decide to manufacture this 366 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: at scale. They're not cynical. They're not saying we'll learn 367 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: about them. They're not saying, hey, we're gonna grift a 368 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: bunch of rubes. They're saying, this is in. People want it. 369 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: Let's try to make something happen. And that's pretty in 370 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: line with spiritualism, which spiritualism would set itself apart from 371 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: other nascent religious beliefs because it was the marriage of 372 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: scientific inquiry to the supernatural, and that that kind of 373 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: we see that reflected later in things like Project Stargate 374 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: and mk Ultra. I'm just saying we shouldn't accuse history 375 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: of being original very often. Yeah, oh gosh, not hut 376 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: it and ever. But it was also malleable in an 377 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: interesting way, right, Like it didn't require you to be 378 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: an adherent to one particular faith, and to your point, 379 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: it allows you to kind of have this. I believe 380 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: there's something out there. I don't quite know what to 381 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: call it yet, but I think the search is worth 382 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: the effort. And then that brings us to the big question, folks, 383 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: does history side, which is really cool and definitely worth 384 00:22:55,359 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: checking out does the Weigia board Actually, you know, does 385 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: it work? Does it? Does it quotation fingers work? Just 386 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: I mean, just without the quotations, I would say does 387 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: it work? But depending on what you mean by we'll 388 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: get to it. Yeah, yeah, right, spoiler, Yes, in fact 389 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 1: it does. We're gonna pause for a word from our sponsors, 390 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: consult with some unseen entities, and we'll be right back. 391 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Yes, we spoiled it a 392 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: little bit just a second ago. But Luigi board does work, 393 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: as you as you point out all it depends on 394 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 1: what process we're talking about working. It doesn't work in 395 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: a way some true believers might think, and we're not 396 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: here to poopoo on anybody's spiritual beliefs. It's just I mean, 397 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: it might. But there is definitely something we can identify 398 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: that is in play, you know, in a very real way. 399 00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 1: Magnets how no, how no, no, wait, you know keep 400 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: it in max, How do they were magnets of the mind? Perhaps, yeah, right, 401 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: Sexual Magnetism, the new album coming. Sexual Magnetism is probably 402 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: already like eighteen different albums. It has to be. We've 403 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: all got that in space those Okay, So we described 404 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: the wigiboard operation, a small group of people asking questions, 405 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: watching in amazement as an unseen force uses them to 406 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: spell out the answer. There's a reason people across oceans 407 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: of time, to quote Dracula, have all encountered the same 408 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: spooky thing and assumed it was supernatural. The phenomenon behind 409 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: the wigiboard science currently believes, is something that's hardwired into 410 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: all human beings. It's called the idiomotor phenomenon or idiomotor 411 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: response or reflex. We can call it IMR when we're 412 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: hanging with friends. What is okay? Idiomotor phenomenon? Is it boring? 413 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty fascinating. Acts the more I learn 414 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: about it not boring at all. I think it's just 415 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: the idea that even if you're not actively thinking about something, 416 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: part of your mind can make you do things part 417 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: of your mind that you're not aware of. Basically, your 418 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: unconscious mind can make your body do things which is freaky, 419 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: like exercise its will through vibrations, through small little micro 420 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: gestures and things. You know. Yeah, props to Julia Layton, 421 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 1: or longtime colleague over How Stuff Works, who wrote a 422 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: great article about the mechanisms behind wigi boards and similar things. 423 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,919 Speaker 1: Julia Layton had this great line where she said, how 424 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,479 Speaker 1: do wegi boards actually work? Well? The short answer people 425 00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: push things, and the long answer is much more interesting push. Yeah. Yeah. 426 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: It's where we talked about something called Chevroules pendulum and 427 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: you can see this in kind of in the pendulum 428 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: pregnancy test. You could also do it yourself at home. 429 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 1: Was string and any kind of weighted object. We talked 430 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: about this recently and a live event that we did 431 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,959 Speaker 1: just about yeah please, I just oh, yeah, you describe 432 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: to describe it when I mean, like, you know, my 433 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,959 Speaker 1: my my daughter's mom, who I'm dear dear friends with, 434 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: is very much into this kind of spiritual spiritualism kind 435 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: of stuff and has done a similar test. You know, 436 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: it's you can use it to kind of you can 437 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: ask it a question in the same way that you 438 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: might ask a Weiji word a question. But it's like 439 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: a string or a chain at the end of which 440 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: is a weight, a crystal, you know, something that that 441 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: holds weight at the bottom end and it pulls the 442 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: string or whatever line it might be taught and yeah, 443 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: you ask it a question like in this case it 444 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 1: was about a baby's gender, and then you know, it's 445 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: sort of like not two times for yes, one time 446 00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 1: for no, like maybe in a sands, But this is 447 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: like a direct actional answer, right in which direction the 448 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: pendulum swings. Yeah, And you consciously may not be trying 449 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: to create a result. That's why, like, first off, the 450 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: body moves way more often and way more constantly than 451 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people imagine because it's weird 452 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: to think about. Right, you can do that. You can 453 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: also do this taking a laser pointer and this will 454 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: be a heck of a time. If you have cats 455 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: in your house, just try to hold it as still 456 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: as possible and you'll see a trimmer there. Kid. Doesn't 457 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: mean anything is wrong with you. It just means that 458 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: the body is in a constant state of movement. And 459 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: that's why the pendulum thing works because without your think 460 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: of your mind like a matt let's go with the 461 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: restaurant thing from table turning, your conscious mind is like 462 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: the front of house staff the major d. The unconscious 463 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: mind is the thing in the back. It's in the kitchen, 464 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 1: it's always cooking, and it can send is is out front, 465 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: And that's kind of what happens with this idiomotor phenomenon. 466 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: This was discovered in the eighteen hundreds by a guy 467 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: named Anton chevrou Not French speakers suppartan pronunciation there. He 468 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: was researching hypnosis and then he realized, oh, this pendulum 469 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: tells me what people are really thinking, because it magnifies 470 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: minute movements even when they're not aware of it. Psychologically, 471 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: you don't feel like you own the movement that's happening. 472 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: So it does feel like another entity. And in a 473 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: way you could say it is. But wait, okay, pause, 474 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: are we just debunkinguija? Are we ruining wija for people? 475 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: I don't think so. I hope that's not our intense. 476 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: I mean again, we're talking about a phenomenon that can 477 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: be explained, that can be described any connection to real 478 00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: or imagined ghosts or specters. I think it's still on 479 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: the table if that's where your belief slot. Yeah, yeah, 480 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: I mean I really do believe that. I and our 481 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: goal here is never to take away any any mystical 482 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: anything from life, you know, because as God knows, we 483 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: need as much as that as we can get, because 484 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: so much of it has been just sort of sucked out. 485 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: But uh, you know, I think there are things at 486 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: play but there are also could also be other elements 487 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: in play that that, you know, change the equation. So 488 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: the idea here is that these tiny movements, in the 489 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: same way they function with a pendulum, would function with 490 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: your fingers on a planchet and all of your friends 491 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: fingers right. So the idea is that if one person 492 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: in that group is really thinking hard about the letter J, 493 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,719 Speaker 1: it may end up moving towards that J, even if 494 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: they're not, even if they're not thinking about the J yes, 495 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: or if it's a bunch of you know, also bad 496 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: faith actors. It's a real thing. There's a bunch of 497 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: teenage teenagers around, you know, and they're like, who's gonna 498 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: does Janie Smith like me? Or whatever? Then you know, 499 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: you might have two romantic rivals, and now the ghost 500 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: can't make a Paul. Yeah, I'm just imagining that same 501 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: party where it's like, oh wait, a six, wait and 502 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: then a nine. Oh right, yes, no, it's perfect. It's 503 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: perfect because that's another illustration of how people's motivations come 504 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: into play, right, sometimes consciously, often unconsciously. We're not just 505 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: debunking it though, because there is something even stranger at 506 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: play here, even acknowledging the existence proven of the idiomotor 507 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: effector reflex. In twenty twelve, these researchers at the University 508 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: of British Columbia did something really interesting. They found that 509 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: the effect is cumulative. It increts power when users believe 510 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: multiple people have their have contact with the plan chet. 511 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: So they blindfolded folks and they would tell the blindfolded people, 512 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: you are one of two folks touching this pointer. And 513 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: then as the plan chet moved, the subject often claimed 514 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: that silent second partner was pushing the thing and they 515 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: did not know that there was no second person involved. 516 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: They really but they felt that they sensed them, they 517 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: felt they were there, and they felt that person was cheating. 518 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: How interesting is that. That's not cheating though, That's sort 519 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: of the whole point, right at least that's in that scenario. Yeah, now, 520 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: it's it's fascinating stuff. The way the parts of our 521 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: minds work without our knowledge. I just I'll never get 522 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: over how cool that is and also scary. Yeah, I 523 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: think about that too many. Um like a lot of 524 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: the people who have managed to gain conscious control over 525 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: over the involuntary functions of the body, like the heartbeat 526 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: and the different aspects of digestion and so on, and 527 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: body temperature. That kind of freaks me out. You know, 528 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: that's insane. But you gotta wonder too if folks who 529 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: are suffering from things like you know, schizophrenia, is that 530 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: like basically that stuff just unhinged and just kind of 531 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: like the guardrails taken off, you know, and like the 532 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: subconscious mind is just now kind of like blending with 533 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: the conscious mind. Again, I'm sort of describing maybe versions 534 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: I've seen of that condition in you know, cinema and stuff. 535 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: But it strikes me as the mind is there's so 536 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: much powerful stuff that can be unlocked for good or ill, 537 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: you know, in the mind. And that warning about that, 538 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: the warnings that you will find on different reach boards 539 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: are or talking boards, I should say, they are coming 540 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: from a good place. It's not just cynical marketing. If 541 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: you have if you are not mentally in a good 542 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: place or mentally secure as that one Japanese example said 543 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: then that this could be a not pleasant experience for people. 544 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: But again, you know, knowledge is powers, so knowing a 545 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: little more about how this works helps you enjoy the 546 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: process maybe a little bit more. This experiment in twenty 547 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: twelve shows that a person's conscious belief that they're not 548 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: moving the pointer kind of enhances their unconscious minds ability 549 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: to trigger those minute movements, which means science proves one 550 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: of the fundamental rules of wuijia the two or more 551 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: players bit, don't play it alone. The more people touching it, 552 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: the easier it is to believe you aren't moving it. 553 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: Get six people on that bad boy, now it's definitely 554 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: a ghost. And if you have a preference for a 555 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: specific outcome, of course that doesn't mean you're cheating. It 556 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: means like you are, like you said, Matt, really thinking 557 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: of the letter J and oh my gosh, something answered me. 558 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,439 Speaker 1: You know. You know how a mass marketed board games 559 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: usually have like a player count on the side for 560 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: like minimum maximum players does does does the Luigi board 561 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 1: start with two? Yes? Okay, yeah? And you know again, 562 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: we're not saying these people are actively cheating or necessarily 563 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: acting in bad faith or trying to be deceptive. Also, 564 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,919 Speaker 1: we have to note the plan chet thing doesn't always move. 565 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: It's in the rules originally was give it five minutes 566 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: and if nothing happens, take a break, try again, take 567 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: a lap, Take a lap and try again, or maybe 568 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: you're more of a magic eight ball kind of guy, 569 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like we should also note 570 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: we're not we're also not saying they're not cheating, right right. Yeah, 571 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 1: it could be either because you could push I mean 572 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: it's a light thing, what I mean, you could push 573 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: and have it not really read to the other players 574 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,839 Speaker 1: as you pushing. But you always see video of this, 575 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: like in movies and somewhere like no, you're pushing it. 576 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,879 Speaker 1: No I'm not, you're pushing, and then they take their 577 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: hands off and it keeps moving. Yeah, the magnets. Yeah, 578 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: stop at the well. Almost the original ghost. We'll get 579 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: to the ghosts in a second. But this idea was 580 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: known touija manufacturers as well. Sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes 581 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: it just spits out nonsense and and one early patent 582 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: didn't call it otherworldly or supernatural at all. Instead they 583 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: said the motion is caused quote by the involuntary muscular 584 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 1: motion of the hands of the players or through some 585 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: other agency. So they were heads of their bets. Uh, 586 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: let's you know what I say. Let's take a break 587 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: for word from our sponsors, who were hopefully the good 588 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: folks at Wijia, which is an Illumination Global Unlimited subsidiary. 589 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: And then we're going to talk about even the weirder stuff. 590 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:11,320 Speaker 1: There's a little bit of a twist here at the end. Okay, 591 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: here's an experiment. If you want to ruin the Halloween party, 592 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: if you want to be not fun at the Halloween party, 593 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 1: we're fun at Halloween parties. You always say that we 594 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: are Actually yeah, we nail it on Halloween parties. But 595 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: if you want to disprove, I guess a Wegia board. 596 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a fun thing to do, 597 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: but it works consentually. Blindfold some folks who are going 598 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: to use the Wegia board, let them look at it 599 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: first without their knowledge, rotate the board ninety degrees, and 600 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: then see what kind of messages they get. Without the 601 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: visual input feeding into their unconscious their responses will probably 602 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,839 Speaker 1: seem a lot less purposeful. Side note, if it still 603 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: appears the work, email us immediately take a video. So 604 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: are you saying like the visual because I mean, wouldn't 605 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,439 Speaker 1: wouldn't there be some situations where maybe folks would say, 606 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,959 Speaker 1: everyone close your eyes while you're doing it, but they're 607 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: closing their eyes still with the memory of the board 608 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: as close and then and then actually, I would say 609 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: it's pretty that's pretty effective. That's a great question because 610 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: if you've got like four people centered around a board, 611 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 1: they've all looked at it from their individual angles, they 612 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: close their eyes. Then if they're all on the same page, 613 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,359 Speaker 1: they can kind of self correct to get to like 614 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: the person at the top left knows where yes is, 615 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: the person in the bottom right has their perspective, and 616 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: so they can kind of move unconsciously toward it. Yes. 617 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: So the implication being of the ghost has a full 618 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,479 Speaker 1: view of the board at all times, so it would 619 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,479 Speaker 1: not be thrown by a ninety degree term. That would 620 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: be the idea. But again, email us if you see 621 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: at work. And it's so interesting what this says about 622 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: the human mind. The idea we can make movements we 623 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: don't realize we're making kind of tells us we should 624 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: not be so smug or confident about what movements we 625 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: think are hours and someone else's. I mean, here's the twist. 626 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: This is the This is the coolest part if you 627 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,800 Speaker 1: think about it. Despite the science, which again is pretty 628 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: conclusive and pretty water tight. Even with all that, if 629 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: you think about you are sort of talking with a 630 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,760 Speaker 1: ghost and unseeing, unacknowledged entity that through you is capable 631 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: of reaching the mundane world. It's just, you know, not 632 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,720 Speaker 1: to sound too Pixar about it, but the real ghost 633 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,399 Speaker 1: was inside you all along. You're the haunted house, right, 634 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: we are the haunted houses. That's I mean. I've seen 635 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: this analogy used really well and oftentimes in like films 636 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: about mental illness, you know, where someone thinks they're seeing 637 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: a ghost, you know, but then it turns out then 638 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: they're just kind of hallucinating or something that's going on, 639 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: you know, psychologically. I think the idea of ghosts of 640 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 1: the mind is the closest thing that we can wrap 641 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: our heads around and actually understand as far as ghosts, 642 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: because we all have memories, we all have kind of 643 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,839 Speaker 1: tortured things that live with us and that linger with us, 644 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: and things that we push to the back of our minds, 645 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: but they're always there, you know, and those things exert 646 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: themselves over our day to day lives, no question, And 647 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,359 Speaker 1: this is like so it gets even weirder, though this 648 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: is cool. That experiment in twenty twelve, you can see 649 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: it published in February the February issue of Consciousness and Cognition. 650 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: Want to shout out the authors, doctor rod Rensinc. The 651 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: researcher Helene Gaucho, and doctor Sidney Fells. Here's what they 652 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: found in this experiment. They said, when people thought someone 653 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: else was touching the planchet, their unconscious mind was basically 654 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: able to slide into those muscle movement dms. And you 655 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: can do much better with the Wigia board on questions 656 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: that you don't really think you know, but something inside 657 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 1: of you does know. When they tried this with UM 658 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: with a robot player instead of a human, and the 659 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,719 Speaker 1: robot would just amplify the existing human muscle movements. They 660 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: they said, okay, right, about fifty percent of the time, 661 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,839 Speaker 1: what we're asking questions like is what else aid? It's 662 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: the capital of Brazil, right, Just neutral control questions, right, 663 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,880 Speaker 1: non emotionally related questions. And then when they asked the 664 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: participants these things verbally, just like in a quiz, Hey 665 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,760 Speaker 1: you know where the we're the two thousand Olympic Games 666 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: in Sydney. People were guessing they were right about fifty 667 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 1: percent of the time. But when they're unconscious came over, 668 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: when their inner ghost came into play, they answer correctly 669 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:05,400 Speaker 1: about sixty five percent of the time, your unconscious mind, 670 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:12,240 Speaker 1: your personal Casper is actually pretty smart. And this episode 671 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: brought to you by Casper Mattresses. Yes, just the right sink, 672 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,320 Speaker 1: just the right bounce, the haunted sleep Casper Mattress scenes. 673 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,880 Speaker 1: This episode is not sponsored by Casper, just so you know, 674 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 1: it's definitely, definitely not, but it is spuntored by Illumination 675 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: Global and level of course question. Everything we do is 676 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: the blood price, as we say, yes, and so that's 677 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,760 Speaker 1: I mean, that's it. You know, your average wegial board 678 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 1: probably isn't haunted, but you are. And the really good 679 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 1: news nice thing to and the show on is that 680 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: it sounds like you're probably being haunted by a friendly 681 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: ghost who who ups your chances of a random guessing 682 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: by fifteen percent. That is such a weirdly specific like superpower. 683 00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 1: It feels like we're in an RPG. Yeah, yeah, for sure, 684 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:06,399 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, Intercasper fifty plus fifteen percent on luck 685 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: I guess at chat GPT certainly seems to think we're 686 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: in an RPG. Yes, yeah, and that's very close to 687 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,719 Speaker 1: um that is very close with the idea of communing 688 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 1: with non human entities. Isn't it. I mean, all the 689 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: stuff we thought were myths and legends, they're increasingly going 690 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 1: to become true. I look forward to the creation of 691 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,879 Speaker 1: the first MINUTEA woo, that'll be great. Guys, I'm talking 692 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 1: about something really quickly again. So civil war popularity, spiritualism, 693 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,800 Speaker 1: lots of dead people interesting. Contacting the other side gives 694 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 1: people meaning right or potential meaning, potential way to feel 695 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: like there's something more, like their loved ones are still around. 696 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,319 Speaker 1: I think there's something weird going on right now as 697 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: we record this. It was announced last night. I guess 698 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 1: that one of the American presidents, recent American president is 699 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: maybe is definitely being indicted, and there's a lot of 700 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:13,280 Speaker 1: followers of that person. It feels a lot of followers 701 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 1: that are going to be upset by this, that are 702 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 1: right now, probably as this episode is coming out, are 703 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 1: very upset by this. And it makes me think back 704 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: to eighteen sixty the election of Abraham Lincoln. It makes 705 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: me think of a political divide in the country. It's 706 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 1: it's what we've talked about before with the Civil War. 707 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 1: I'm freaked out that something else is happening. And guys, 708 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: instead of spiritualism, you know what we have to fall 709 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: back on. What's that UFOs. Sorry, I'm just I don't 710 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. They are their own kind of 711 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,239 Speaker 1: little gods or ghosts in a way. I just think 712 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,759 Speaker 1: the term ghosts is so interesting, you know, because we 713 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,680 Speaker 1: were We've been talking with with Flame Monroe the other 714 00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: the other week in LA and asking about ghosts, and 715 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 1: Flamed said she didn't really believe in ghosts, but did 716 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:08,480 Speaker 1: believe in like energy of places and events that have affected, 717 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 1: you know, environments, And I would say that energy applies 718 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,880 Speaker 1: to our memories as well in our minds. And I 719 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: think this ghosts of the mind thing isn't saying that 720 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,839 Speaker 1: like anyone who believes in ghosts is just imagining it. 721 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 1: I just think there's something. It's something different, and like 722 00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,360 Speaker 1: the memory of our loved ones in and of themselves 723 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,600 Speaker 1: can be kind of ghost because they can then connect 724 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,799 Speaker 1: with something something you see, something you smell, you know, 725 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 1: something you taste or here, and then that memory joins 726 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:37,759 Speaker 1: up with that and then all of a sudden, it's 727 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: like there's a person there, you know. Yeah, I like that. 728 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,879 Speaker 1: We've talked about the way sense memory can do that, 729 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,399 Speaker 1: and that's a beautiful description. Would also add that if 730 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 1: we think about it through that lens, reading is speaking no, 731 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 1: it's so good. Yeah, I think that's I think that's 732 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:06,840 Speaker 1: a beautiful point. First, end on. First, for anybody who 733 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,640 Speaker 1: is rocking what Matt's saying there, check out it could 734 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:15,320 Speaker 1: happen here by our pal Robert Evans. And to the 735 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:20,320 Speaker 1: fascinating point about UAP, you know, we have to remember 736 00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:25,360 Speaker 1: the importance of perspective and cultural lens right, the way 737 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 1: that the way that these different world or nationwide paradigm 738 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: shifts can occur, and when we're in the thick of it, 739 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,319 Speaker 1: it is very difficult to understand how it will all 740 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,919 Speaker 1: shake out. Right. That's why history books will definitively say 741 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,719 Speaker 1: stuff like this spiritual spiritualist movement started here and ended here, 742 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 1: or the Civil Wars started here and ended here. That's 743 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:56,799 Speaker 1: just it's too cut and dry, and you have to 744 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 1: do that for the purposes of writing and for communications. 745 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,520 Speaker 1: We also know that history is written by the victors, 746 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:04,400 Speaker 1: or at least the ones who write the history books, 747 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 1: and oftentimes it's oversimplified. Well, of course it's oversimplified, but 748 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 1: also they have the benefit of retrospects and humans love information, 749 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,440 Speaker 1: So we how about this, How about we ask our 750 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:23,320 Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realist to help us get a sense of 751 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: a new definition of ghost If you were to redefine 752 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 1: what a ghost is or how a ghostly encounter works, 753 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,400 Speaker 1: after having checked out our episodes on memory and infrasound 754 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,279 Speaker 1: and so on, how would you most accurately describe the 755 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,080 Speaker 1: experience of a ghostly presence? And do you use a 756 00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,360 Speaker 1: wig aboard? Are you one of the people who believes 757 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:47,440 Speaker 1: that are dangerous? Have you had any weird experiences Matt, 758 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,160 Speaker 1: Like you said, a video would be great here and 759 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:51,759 Speaker 1: one of the best ways to send us a video 760 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: it's of course email, But you can find us all 761 00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:59,880 Speaker 1: over the internet. The genuine like technology is spooky. We're 762 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:05,759 Speaker 1: creating the supernatural now right Like social media is kind 763 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 1: of a weird way to communicate with people. Oh yeah, 764 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,759 Speaker 1: but that being said, find us, yeah you can. We 765 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,520 Speaker 1: are Conspiracy Stuff on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook where we 766 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 1: have right here's where it gets crazy Facebook group, get 767 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,680 Speaker 1: out on the conversation there. You can also find us 768 00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:27,200 Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok at Conspiracy Stuff Show. If you'd 769 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:31,600 Speaker 1: like to call us, call one eight three three STDWY 770 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,000 Speaker 1: t K. It's a voicemail system. You've got three minutes. 771 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,600 Speaker 1: Please give yourself a cool nickname, not your real name. 772 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,080 Speaker 1: If you don't mind, Please let us know whether we 773 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,160 Speaker 1: can use your name and message on the air, and 774 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,480 Speaker 1: do put that number in your phone as a contact 775 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,359 Speaker 1: just in case the ghost calls back. If you don't 776 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,719 Speaker 1: want to do that, instead, why not send us a 777 00:47:50,719 --> 00:48:13,960 Speaker 1: good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 778 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,200 Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production 779 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:20,759 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 780 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,720 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.