Speaker 1: At around two am on December twenty three, young men
Speaker 1: Rafael James, Eddie Vieira, and Mark Smith held up a
Speaker 1: Burger King in Brooklyn, where they blindfolded and raped a
Speaker 1: female employee and forced a male employee to participate. They
Speaker 1: left with three thousand dollars in cash. Both survivors initially
Speaker 1: described three assailants. Two weeks later, on January eight, Raphael
Speaker 1: James and Mark Smith were on their way to a
Speaker 1: party with Raphael's sixteen year old cousin, Mark Denny, when
Speaker 1: the two men stopped the car outside of another store
Speaker 1: that they intended to rob. Mark wanted no part of it.
Speaker 1: While they argued, police pulled up, searched the car and
Speaker 1: found a gun. James and Smith were suspects in the
Speaker 1: December twentie incident, and Mark Denny became a suspect by association.
Speaker 1: Mark was bailed out of jail that night and ignored
Speaker 1: his cousin's request to raise bail buddy so out of spite,
Speaker 1: Mark's cousin named him as an assailant as well, even
Speaker 1: though the victims repeatedly said that there were only three
Speaker 1: assailants and had identified Bierra, Smith and James. The detectives
Speaker 1: pressured the female victim with a suggestive lineup to change
Speaker 1: the number of assailants from three to four, and Mark
Speaker 1: Denny was ultimately convicted. Years later, Raphael James recanted excluding
Speaker 1: Mark from the crime, but it took an investigation by
Speaker 1: the Brooklyn cru to reveal the corrupt identification process in
Speaker 1: which the female survivor was re victimized. Mark Denny was
Speaker 1: finally freed exactly thirty years from the date of the crime.
Speaker 1: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Jason Floman. Today I have a guest who's
Speaker 1: a really special guy. And he's special to me because
Speaker 1: I had the privilege of meeting and actually having lunch
Speaker 1: with him three days after he was released from prison
Speaker 1: after thirty years for a crime he didn't commit. So,
Speaker 1: without further ado, let me welcome and introduce my friend
Speaker 1: Mark Danny. Mark. Welcome to ronfo Conviction. Thank you Jason
Speaker 1: for having me so. Mark. This crime happened when you
Speaker 1: were just sixteen years old. Sixteen right, and the crime
Speaker 1: itself is like something out of a out of a
Speaker 1: horror movie. But before we get into the whole situation
Speaker 1: and how you got wrapped up in it. Mark, tell us,
Speaker 1: what was your life like growing up. Were you born
Speaker 1: and raised in Brooklyn. No. I was born in Guyana,
Speaker 1: South America. I was there all the way up until
Speaker 1: seven years old. Then I migrated to America. My childhood
Speaker 1: experience in Guyana was very fun filled, and that's pretty
Speaker 1: much how I grew up. My grandmother left to Margaret
Speaker 1: to America. She made certain things happen and I was
Speaker 1: able to be flowing in and I was so happy again.
Speaker 1: My grandmother was like my everything. When I first came
Speaker 1: to America, I was living in Flatbooh section of Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: I was living with my grandmother and after a while,
Speaker 1: my cousin, Raphael, he decided to come and live with
Speaker 1: a two So it was me him living with my grandmother,
Speaker 1: just like he was in Guyana. And Raphael is a
Speaker 1: pivotal character in your story, and it becomes clear later
Speaker 1: that he was into some really bad stuff, dark stuff.
Speaker 1: But before all that, it seems like you had a
Speaker 1: pretty happy and saved childhood. And let's bear in mind
Speaker 1: as we listened to the story that this was the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties in Brooklyn when both crime and police misconduct
Speaker 1: were out of control, right, And the crime in this
Speaker 1: case is, even by the standards of the day, is
Speaker 1: just brutal, disgusting and really really sad. We're talking about
Speaker 1: an incident that happened in December twenty seven around two am.
Speaker 1: And what happened was two masked men forced their way
Speaker 1: into a Burger King that was about to close in Brooklyn, right,
Speaker 1: and two employees were there, one male and one female,
Speaker 1: were closing up the shop. They these guys came in
Speaker 1: and they forced the male employee to undress and forced
Speaker 1: him into a storeroom. A third assailant entered the restaurant
Speaker 1: at some point. They had blindfolded and forced the eighteen
Speaker 1: year old female employee to take her clothes off as well,
Speaker 1: and then all three men raped her in the back room.
Speaker 1: It's horrible. The male employee also told police that the
Speaker 1: men forced him to sexually assault her as well. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry you have to hear this, but this is These
Speaker 1: are the facts of the case. The three men fled
Speaker 1: with around three thousand dollars in cash receipts from the
Speaker 1: restaurants safe. I mean, even during this high crime era,
Speaker 1: this incident stood out and you find out later that
Speaker 1: your cousin Raphael j along with his friends Mark Smith
Speaker 1: and Eddie Fierira, that they actually did this to the
Speaker 1: girl at your local Burger King, who was a girl
Speaker 1: that you happened to have had a crush on. Right,
Speaker 1: But for the time being, this incident is just more
Speaker 1: insanity in the neighborhood that's grown accustomed to insane things happening.
Speaker 1: So about two weeks passed by, it's January. Tell us
Speaker 1: what happened that night. My cousin wanted to go to
Speaker 1: a certain party, but he wanted to hold my aunt's car.
Speaker 1: She wouldn't let him hold a car, so he kind
Speaker 1: of talked me into doing it, under the impression that
Speaker 1: he'll let me come with him. So I would and
Speaker 1: barrow my aunt's car, and they directed me to where
Speaker 1: the party whether it was supposed to be in Manhattan.
Speaker 1: Then we got in front of a store and it
Speaker 1: was me, my cousin and his friend, and his friend
Speaker 1: wanted us to pull over, and they started talking about
Speaker 1: it's too early to go to a party. They wanted
Speaker 1: to do a robberie real quick, and automatically became afraid
Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons, and the many reasons. Was
Speaker 1: I was a kid and I never really did anything dangerous.
Speaker 1: You know, I was resistant. We stood in the car
Speaker 1: arguing about it. But to make a long story short,
Speaker 1: nothing happened. No one decided to do anything because I
Speaker 1: was there. I don't know how long we was in
Speaker 1: front of the store, but I guess the people in
Speaker 1: the store probably seen us, got suspicious called the cops.
Speaker 1: So the cops pulled up and they was waiting to
Speaker 1: see what happened. And as he was driving off, they
Speaker 1: pulled us over and I was in the back seat.
Speaker 1: My cousin was in the front seat with his friends,
Speaker 1: and out of nowhere, a gun was tossed to me. So,
Speaker 1: like you described, it was Raphael James driving and Mark
Speaker 1: Smith in the front pastor seat. And they, of course
Speaker 1: were suspects in the December twentie robbery at rape in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: You became a suspect as well, just because you happened
Speaker 1: to be in the car with them, Right, But did
Speaker 1: you even know that they had been involved in this
Speaker 1: insane crime? No? I did not, if you think for me,
Speaker 1: became aware that this is what they do on a
Speaker 1: regular because that's how they was trying to convince me
Speaker 1: it's easy. He did it before, So the whole thing
Speaker 1: of what my cousin was actually doing for a living,
Speaker 1: I became aware of all of it at that very moment.
Speaker 1: So he was some kind of stick up guy. This
Speaker 1: was like a regular thing for him. But you were
Speaker 1: just a kid who was in the wrong place at
Speaker 1: the wrong time. And we all got locked in that
Speaker 1: night as a resulting me being in the car with them.
Speaker 1: You know, I got billed out that night, and he didn't.
Speaker 1: Him and his friend Mark Smith stayed there and Mark
Speaker 1: Smith gave me a bunch of jury to bring home
Speaker 1: to Pawn for him to help make build money. And
Speaker 1: my cousin, now Raphael James, he wanted me to go
Speaker 1: to my grandmother house and get some kind of wedi
Speaker 1: at stash and sell it it was supposed to be
Speaker 1: like a pound and get him build money. So now
Speaker 1: here I get built out with all this jury in
Speaker 1: these duty to go do stuff for people that just
Speaker 1: finished almost got me killed and got me locked up,
Speaker 1: and tricked me into going to a party that they
Speaker 1: claimed wasn't even no party, you know. So I was
Speaker 1: piste off and it is the energy I came out with.
Speaker 1: So when I went back to my friends the next
Speaker 1: day and I explained it to them, you know, there
Speaker 1: was all on my side. It was all against the
Speaker 1: mode almost got you locked up. You could have been
Speaker 1: a jail now you gotta go to court. Now you're
Speaker 1: gonna come out here and go sell drugs and jury
Speaker 1: for the You know, it made me felt like, you know,
Speaker 1: they just mailed me, felt like it wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: the right thing to do. And when you didn't do
Speaker 1: what your cousin and mark Smith had told you to do,
Speaker 1: and your cousin found out about it, he was really
Speaker 1: passed and he eventually made a statement sending investigators in
Speaker 1: your direction. It stayed him to such an extent that
Speaker 1: I guess he always wanted to give me back, because
Speaker 1: in a statement he said he just wanted to put
Speaker 1: me in jail. So I can see what he was
Speaker 1: going through when he was in the he needed my help.
Speaker 1: But I don't even see how. I don't even see
Speaker 1: the logic in that. I don't see that. So while
Speaker 1: both victims had reported three assailants right three and the
Speaker 1: other three guys, your cousin and his friends Eddievier and
Speaker 1: Marksman had been identified from either photographic or live lineups.
Speaker 1: That should have been the end of it right there,
Speaker 1: right but with your cousin had told detectives, it didn't
Speaker 1: stop right there. This is when the identification process got corrupted.
Speaker 1: It's now March. Detectives told the female victim who had
Speaker 1: maintained that there were only three assailants, right three, and
Speaker 1: she had already identified the three, but she had been
Speaker 1: through an unbelievably traumatic experience, and remember she was blindfolded
Speaker 1: for most of it. So the detectives told her that
Speaker 1: they had one of her attackers and that his name
Speaker 1: was Mark Denny, and they put your picture in a
Speaker 1: photo lineup, and she still didn't pick you. But two
Speaker 1: days later, you're at your grandmother's house and these cops
Speaker 1: come and take you back to the precinct where they
Speaker 1: interrogate you and eventually puts you in a live lineup,
Speaker 1: and she picks you the person remember whose picture she
Speaker 1: saw but did not identify two days earlier. And now
Speaker 1: the number of assailing goes from three to four. Now
Speaker 1: you were the only person who appeared in both the
Speaker 1: photo and live lineups. And we know that type of
Speaker 1: suggestive technique plays psychological tricks on anybody, right, if you
Speaker 1: see the same person over and over again, your brain
Speaker 1: will start to adjust, and people can be easily influenced
Speaker 1: by this type of manipulation. And this is not just
Speaker 1: me saying it. It's been proven over and over again
Speaker 1: in countless studies. So her account was altered to make
Speaker 1: room for four assailants. Yet the male employee only viewed
Speaker 1: the live lineup, and of course he did not identify you,
Speaker 1: and he was the one who was not blindfolded, and
Speaker 1: he maintained that there were only three assailants. And of
Speaker 1: course there was exactly zero physical evidence pointing to you
Speaker 1: because you weren't freaking there, but the other three guys
Speaker 1: had all left fingerprints and other evidence at the scene.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what the hell these detectives
Speaker 1: thought they were doing, but it definitely wasn't in the
Speaker 1: interest of justice, especially not to you, a sixteen year
Speaker 1: old boy at the time. You know, it took me
Speaker 1: to the prison. They smacked me around, asked me questions
Speaker 1: over and over and over that I really didn't have
Speaker 1: any answer to. I would telling me I really didn't
Speaker 1: know nothing, and they smacked me around. It took me
Speaker 1: to the line of room. They put me in there
Speaker 1: and claimed I got picked out. I didn't know what
Speaker 1: to do or what to say other than what I
Speaker 1: was already saying. I was really like an empty vessel
Speaker 1: at that moment that was just being done with whatever
Speaker 1: that authority felt was appropriate to try to resolve a
Speaker 1: nasty case, and that became a nightmare. This episode is
Speaker 1: underwritten by a i G, a leading global insurance company,
Speaker 1: and by Accenture, a global professional services company with leading
Speaker 1: capabilities in digital, cloud and security. Working to reform the
Speaker 1: criminal justice system is a key pillar of the ai
Speaker 1: G pro Bono program, which provides free legal services and
Speaker 1: other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals most in need.
Speaker 1: As part of Accenter's commitment to racial and civil justice.
Speaker 1: Accenter's Legal Access Program provides pro bono legal services in
Speaker 1: partnership with more than forty organizations, bringing meaningful change to
Speaker 1: people and communities worldwide. There was like fivedollars something like that,
Speaker 1: and then they finally took me to write as Island.
Speaker 1: You know. I was scary because all the reputations in
Speaker 1: the neighborhood, you know, is about people going to right
Speaker 1: As Island and coming out what I really want to
Speaker 1: do is just tell anyone that would listen to my
Speaker 1: story and get them to help me out. But I
Speaker 1: had no increment of how ugly in and repulse people
Speaker 1: are by the nate to of sex defense and jail.
Speaker 1: So when I got there, the first level of abuse
Speaker 1: was from the guards, because when you come in there,
Speaker 1: get your criminal records so they know what you're coming
Speaker 1: in for. That crime is esteem is one of the
Speaker 1: most disgusted in prison sex defense period by the civilians,
Speaker 1: by the criminals, even the dirt bag, you know, so
Speaker 1: me having that title automatically it started off with abuse.
Speaker 1: You know, I started to intermingle. I felt that if
Speaker 1: people understood my situation that they would take my side
Speaker 1: and help me out. But they didn't. You know, I
Speaker 1: just became a target. The gods beat me down. One
Speaker 1: day on my way back from the mess all. They
Speaker 1: beat me down to a point where you couldn't even
Speaker 1: recognize me. Friends that I had that they didn't even
Speaker 1: know it was me walking through the hallway because my
Speaker 1: face was so bad. Jesus. I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: know how people can behave this way. I mean, the
Speaker 1: records Island is a notorious place. It's no place for
Speaker 1: any human being, much less a kid like you and situation,
Speaker 1: and you certainly didn't deserve any of this ship to
Speaker 1: happen to you. So how long Mark were you held
Speaker 1: in Rikers before the trial? I was a requizan and
Speaker 1: a belieful approximately one year. So Eddie Vieira and Mark
Speaker 1: Smith pled guilty and was sent to prison. But you
Speaker 1: and your cousin Rob fail James went to trial together,
Speaker 1: and at that point you still had no idea that
Speaker 1: he had made this statement naming you as an assailant,
Speaker 1: a statement that, of course he later recanted. So who
Speaker 1: represented you? Oh? Man? I had this lawyer named Harry Dusenberry.
Speaker 1: He was a straight bows o man. I mean from
Speaker 1: the way he dressed, his jacket sneezes midway between his
Speaker 1: wrists and his elbows, his head looking all craziest pants
Speaker 1: as how waters he just looked like a clown, like
Speaker 1: a joke. That's ridiculous, yess I out of a movie
Speaker 1: or something. So okay, So you're represented by this guy
Speaker 1: who can't even find clothes that fit right much. Let's
Speaker 1: figure out the law. And he was a public defender, No,
Speaker 1: he was actually a paid attorney, Like, I don't know
Speaker 1: where my parents got this guy from. He didn't really
Speaker 1: communicate it with me at all, and the relationship was
Speaker 1: not good. They came to a point where he was
Speaker 1: charging my family seven thousand dollars. My grandmother had to
Speaker 1: work give the money to my mother to give to him.
Speaker 1: So it came to a point where where the payment
Speaker 1: was supposed to be done, he was claiming that he
Speaker 1: was still short two thousand dollars and if he didn't
Speaker 1: get it, my case is gonna full apart. Mark, did
Speaker 1: he visit you in prison? Did he prepare for the
Speaker 1: case at all? He navicated prison and visit me. I
Speaker 1: would see him when I go to the courtroom in
Speaker 1: the back of the courtroom and the holding pins. So
Speaker 1: that trial, your grandmother was called to the stand in
Speaker 1: your defense, and she testified that you were home with
Speaker 1: her on the night of the crime. But no one
Speaker 1: seemed to care about that. You know, it's so easy
Speaker 1: for them to disparage her as being willing to lie
Speaker 1: for her grandson. Then, of course, the female victim who
Speaker 1: had been pressured into changing her memory, right of three
Speaker 1: assailants changing get to four, she was called to identify you,
Speaker 1: but as we know, she was also blindfolded throughout most
Speaker 1: of this incident and repeatedly stated that she couldn't remember
Speaker 1: what happened. Meanwhile, the other victim in this case maintained
Speaker 1: still that there were only three assailants and did not
Speaker 1: identify you as one of those assailants. So for a
Speaker 1: fleeting moment, this kind of looked like it might have
Speaker 1: gone your way, which would have been the right way,
Speaker 1: of course, But then this statement from your own cousin
Speaker 1: and co defendant, Raphael James, came to light and sealed
Speaker 1: your faith. My co defender, Raphael Jays, they say that
Speaker 1: he made a statement when he was questioned, and in
Speaker 1: his statement they asked him who was all there, and
Speaker 1: he said Eddie Vieira, he said Mark Smith. And he
Speaker 1: said and my cousin, Mark. You know, this is my cousin.
Speaker 1: This is a blood relative, and we're talking about some
Speaker 1: as serious as a race. So I guess even though
Speaker 1: it was all those in the cases, that it wasn't me.
Speaker 1: I think it's because of the ugly and nasty nature
Speaker 1: the case that made a lot of people just become
Speaker 1: blinded to the truth, an act that in a manner
Speaker 1: disregarded truth. Now we know that he later recanted this
Speaker 1: statement and excluded you from the crime, but at this
Speaker 1: point you were basically doomed. I mean, it arguably all
Speaker 1: comes down to him. Had he never told detectives that
Speaker 1: spiteful lie to begin with, they would have never been
Speaker 1: any motivation for them to obtain that corrupted I d
Speaker 1: or to basically coerce the victims to change the number
Speaker 1: of assailants from three to four. But of course that's
Speaker 1: not how this went. I was really depressed at that
Speaker 1: whole thing. I was just waiting fit to be oval,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't really listening when the victim pointed at
Speaker 1: me and actually said that I rape it. That told
Speaker 1: to me, and it was hardbreaking to me because seeing
Speaker 1: the victim for the very first time up on the stand.
Speaker 1: The store that the crime took place in is a
Speaker 1: restaurant that as a kid, me and my female cousins
Speaker 1: were going that store and play in the playground area,
Speaker 1: So I saw the person before, but I never said
Speaker 1: anything to the female in my life. But one of
Speaker 1: the things that I noticed was that she was very beautiful.
Speaker 1: She had a very very bright aura to herself. And
Speaker 1: when I actually seen her for the first time in
Speaker 1: that courtroom, up on that and that broke my heart
Speaker 1: because in my head I was thinking to myself about
Speaker 1: my co defendive rapper. James said right next that, hold up,
Speaker 1: you know that I know that girl that they used
Speaker 1: to tease me about being infatuated me. I can't really
Speaker 1: explain it to was like, he just brokes up in me.
Speaker 1: I started crying because someone that in my childhood timeline
Speaker 1: who's pass that our cused that I was infatuated. It
Speaker 1: ended up being the very source that's condemned me. And
Speaker 1: it's because of my cousin. That is a lot. Man,
Speaker 1: That is heavy. Right. This whole thing would be hard
Speaker 1: enough for anybody to process or or deal with without
Speaker 1: all the those other factors mixed in. So there you
Speaker 1: are you. I mean, you had no shot of getting
Speaker 1: justice in this scenario whatsoever. And the trial, of course
Speaker 1: lasted only two days, right, two days for man's life.
Speaker 1: So mark the moment that the verdict was read. Do
Speaker 1: you even remember what that was like? No, man, I cried,
Speaker 1: I broke down. I was trying to tell the judge
Speaker 1: for the very last time I wasn't there I told
Speaker 1: her that my cousin lied on me. I learned everything
Speaker 1: about the case and everything as I was going through
Speaker 1: the process. I didn't even know he made a statement
Speaker 1: dragging me in, and it devastated me of travel because
Speaker 1: I had to sit next to this person that throughout
Speaker 1: the whole trial until that statement came out, he was
Speaker 1: acting on nice and like he was concerned and telling
Speaker 1: me don't worry, I'm gonna beat it and blah blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. Ne when the statement come out showing that
Speaker 1: he pulled me into it, I couldn't believe that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that just as another layer of horror to this whole scenario. So, okay,
Speaker 1: so you're convicted, you're taken away, sentenced to nineteen to
Speaker 1: fifty seven years in prison. These numbers couldn't even have
Speaker 1: made any sense to you much longer than you have
Speaker 1: been alive at this point in time. Right, But we
Speaker 1: know that in these cases, when you come up for parole,
Speaker 1: if you don't admit guilt, the chance of you getting
Speaker 1: out on a crime like this is virtually nothing. So
Speaker 1: it's really effectively a life sentence that they gave you
Speaker 1: at this point in time, Right, So what happens next?
Speaker 1: And how did you survive this entire ordeal? Which prisons
Speaker 1: were you win? And how did you find the strength
Speaker 1: to survive this impossible situation? You know, I wasn't just
Speaker 1: about all the max is in New York State, And
Speaker 1: in spite of the harsh criticism and stigma that I
Speaker 1: had to carry for all those years, I would admit
Speaker 1: that they were prisons where I actually was able to
Speaker 1: find peace. There was prisoners, you know, who had great influence,
Speaker 1: who was actually able to put the break on a
Speaker 1: out of the fund up I was going through in
Speaker 1: there because they gave me the benefit of doubt. I
Speaker 1: met people that encouraged me just based on hearing me speak.
Speaker 1: It was peaceful moments where I was able to tap
Speaker 1: into my intellectual abilities. I was able to get education.
Speaker 1: I got my g D and there got my barber certificate.
Speaker 1: In there. Then I spent a lot of time in
Speaker 1: solitary confinement where no one can get to me, even
Speaker 1: to sell by yourself. And I embraced those moments where
Speaker 1: to another person's solitary confinement may be held to me.
Speaker 1: It was refused, it was silace, it was peace. I've
Speaker 1: heard other people talk about that. Can of us who
Speaker 1: haven't been through it can imagine any of this. But
Speaker 1: was there a lowest point while you were in prison
Speaker 1: where you actually, you know, we're on the virtual giving
Speaker 1: up hope. And there came a point where I was
Speaker 1: about to commit suicide. My mind went through all the
Speaker 1: things that life has to offer. I actually ruled myself
Speaker 1: out of the picture. What happened if I was no
Speaker 1: longer here, Yeah, there would be a little bit of
Speaker 1: the emotions, There'll be a little bit of this, they'd
Speaker 1: be a little bit of that. But just like all
Speaker 1: the people I knew, after a while, everything just passes on.
Speaker 1: So somehow I got it all, listened to my ad
Speaker 1: and said that, you know, it's a waste of time
Speaker 1: of me even hanging out, cause it seemed like I
Speaker 1: cursed God out, I ripped the Bible up. You know,
Speaker 1: I believe that it was no truth for no one
Speaker 1: because no one was accepting my truth. It was only
Speaker 1: making things harder for me. I never thought I was
Speaker 1: coming out because even though I completed my minimum and
Speaker 1: I went to parole, they wanted to know the truth,
Speaker 1: and my truth and them was a lot. So I
Speaker 1: was never getting out there and they know better what
Speaker 1: good behaviors I didn't tell those good behaviors was not
Speaker 1: getting me up. It was like situation I go. So
Speaker 1: you appeal the conviction in but it's denied. You filed
Speaker 1: a petition for a bit of habeas corpus, seeking a
Speaker 1: new trial, based in part on a statement from Raphael
Speaker 1: James that you weren't involved in the crime. But the
Speaker 1: petition is denied. Eventually, Eddie Vieira, Mark Smith, and your
Speaker 1: cousin Raphael James, they're all released on parole, but you
Speaker 1: aren't released because the state, the Parole Board, as usual,
Speaker 1: they wanted to hear you admit your guilt to this
Speaker 1: crime you didn't commit. They wanted to hear you basically
Speaker 1: gravel and you wouldn't do it because you didn't do
Speaker 1: the crime. So, okay, tell me about how Nina Morrison
Speaker 1: and the Innocence Project got involved in your case and
Speaker 1: what happened next. So I was going to low Library
Speaker 1: or Research and I got a bunch of organizations that
Speaker 1: responded to claims of innocent and I wrote all of them.
Speaker 1: A couple of them wrote me back, told me I
Speaker 1: was in another state. They really didn't have jurisdiction. It
Speaker 1: was jurisdictional issues, and you know, did not I believe
Speaker 1: it was. In two thousand nine, I got a letter
Speaker 1: from the innocent, probably in the Morrison, telling me that
Speaker 1: they're gonna help me. And I was a solitary confinement
Speaker 1: when I got that letter that let him made me
Speaker 1: feel so good because it just pointed out all the
Speaker 1: different reasons why they believe I was in the right.
Speaker 1: So I was able to take that letter as a
Speaker 1: badge of honor and show it to people in their
Speaker 1: security wise and civilian wise, and and make wise that
Speaker 1: even if you don't believe my own words, look there's
Speaker 1: people who actually believe. You know, those letters from her
Speaker 1: and that whole turning point right there was great to me.
Speaker 1: But then it this took so long. I didn't think
Speaker 1: I was gonna come out anyway, because then she told
Speaker 1: me that they couldn't find a forensic evidence. That's what
Speaker 1: they was waiting for for years. And then when they
Speaker 1: told me that they couldn't find it it was lost
Speaker 1: in some laboratory that was destroyed by Hurricane Sandy, I
Speaker 1: was crushed. I just started going in about how the
Speaker 1: facts was in the record is right, there. What the
Speaker 1: hell is they looking for? Is right? It? So Nina
Speaker 1: Morrison requests an investigation from the Brooklyn Conviction Review Unit,
Speaker 1: which they carried out, and as Sire, you concluded that
Speaker 1: the identification process was while it was chest absolute nonsense right,
Speaker 1: it had serious problems, taking into account three months had
Speaker 1: passed between the crime and the lineup, that after being
Speaker 1: through a traumatic event like that blindfolded, that the victim
Speaker 1: viewed the line up after having seen your picture, which
Speaker 1: is obviously really suggestive. I mean that could contaminate anybody's memory.
Speaker 1: And of course all three of the actual culprits, your
Speaker 1: cousin add A Bieira and Mark Smith all said that
Speaker 1: you had nothing to do with it. They put a
Speaker 1: lot of energy in and they came back with evidence
Speaker 1: that was consistent with my claim, with what my code
Speaker 1: of finer Raffle James claimed at the VR and Mark Smith, both,
Speaker 1: according to the investigation, gave up statements that was thorough
Speaker 1: and exonerated me. Maybe one decided to just tell the
Speaker 1: truth in the and so all these things, put together,
Speaker 1: with all the different errors that already existed, paved the
Speaker 1: way for me to be exonerated. So that brings us
Speaker 1: to December twenty, two thousand seventeen, which is exactly thirty
Speaker 1: years after the initial horrendous crime took place. You're joined
Speaker 1: by Barry Shack, Nina Morrison, and then also the people
Speaker 1: leading the cru at that time, which was Mark Hale
Speaker 1: and Lisa Perlman, and King's County District Attorney Eric Gonzalez,
Speaker 1: who was sitting in the front row, said that you're
Speaker 1: wrongful conviction and this is a direct quote. Happened because
Speaker 1: little was known back then about memory retention and retrieval
Speaker 1: and their effect on eyeways identification end quote. The case
Speaker 1: was finally dismissed with the consent of prosecutors, along with
Speaker 1: a conviction for possession of contraband that occurred after you
Speaker 1: were incarcerated. So then there you were December twenty, two
Speaker 1: thousand seventeen. You're finally freed. Can you tell me about
Speaker 1: that day? Like, what the what the how was going
Speaker 1: through your mind? Prior to me coming out? I had
Speaker 1: to go from this prison to that prison, and interestingly,
Speaker 1: one of those trips led me back to Riker Zigna
Speaker 1: where it all started. I thought occurred to me the
Speaker 1: day that I left Ranker Zion that I was convicted
Speaker 1: and depressed and thought my life was over. When I
Speaker 1: was going over that bridge to leave Rika Zion to
Speaker 1: go to Upstate facility, I said to myself as that
Speaker 1: bus was going over bridge, I'm gonna leave my spirit
Speaker 1: right here and I don't know when, but someday I'll
Speaker 1: be back for you, because I don't want you to
Speaker 1: go with me. And the interesting thing is that on
Speaker 1: the day that I was leaving to go to court
Speaker 1: to come home, at that very moment, as the bus
Speaker 1: was on the bridge, I remembered those same words, and
Speaker 1: it was like it was just this suspended wait for me.
Speaker 1: I just wholesome at that every moment that I received
Speaker 1: what I left. I went to court, everybody was there,
Speaker 1: you know, people seeing the past, family members, you know,
Speaker 1: loved ones. I was going through all kinds of motions.
Speaker 1: I got up in front of the court and I
Speaker 1: made a statement, I wish I was the hero to
Speaker 1: save that girl, because on that day, you know, she
Speaker 1: really needed one, but I wasn't there and I couldn't
Speaker 1: help out. I am so afraid now about how easy
Speaker 1: a person could lie, and the more ugly the lies,
Speaker 1: the more people tend to believe is the truth. But
Speaker 1: sometimes I worry about the people of jail that didn't
Speaker 1: get a chance to prove their innocence and died because
Speaker 1: this whole new momentum of criminal justice reform is just
Speaker 1: when in history hasn't been that way. So therefore a
Speaker 1: whole lot of injustice was always happening. People was going
Speaker 1: in there and dying and not coming out. Man. I
Speaker 1: could have been one of those people. Man, So you know,
Speaker 1: it's scary how destructive a lie could be. The truth
Speaker 1: is everything, man. I learned how to understand that and
Speaker 1: respect that, so you're at least, but then you're immediately
Speaker 1: facing something else you've been working for its full citizenship,
Speaker 1: but your conviction and put all that in jeopardy. Right
Speaker 1: before I got exonerated, I was scheduled to be deported.
Speaker 1: My green card was revoked, and I was up to
Speaker 1: the parole board to release me into the hands of Ice,
Speaker 1: and from there was straight on the plane, straight back
Speaker 1: to Guyana. But in the course of me regaining my
Speaker 1: exoneration and ultimately being innocent, and so now I'm going
Speaker 1: through the process of getting my naturalization, it's just a
Speaker 1: matter of me maintaining focused keeping a good behavior, you know,
Speaker 1: and I believe citizenship is important to that because it
Speaker 1: will put me in a better position to say and
Speaker 1: do a lot and maybe even into into duors that
Speaker 1: I would otherwise not be able to. Well. I think
Speaker 1: this country owes you a hell of a lot more
Speaker 1: than just citizenship. And I'm so glad that the Immigration
Speaker 1: Justice Clinic was able to prevent your deportation, where Immigration
Speaker 1: and Customs Enforcement inform your lawyers that because all your
Speaker 1: criminal convictions were returned, they wouldn't attempt to detain or
Speaker 1: deport you, and you were free to seek citizenship and
Speaker 1: remain here with your family. And you also have a
Speaker 1: book coming out soon, is that right? The Book of
Speaker 1: School The Awakening Process, a self empowerment journey. That's beautiful, Mark,
Speaker 1: And we'll put links to that, you know where you
Speaker 1: can purchase the book and all that stuff in our bio.
Speaker 1: So now here we come to closing arguments, which is
Speaker 1: my favorite part of the show, and I just want
Speaker 1: to thank you Mark for coming here, getting on the
Speaker 1: mic and sharing your story. And so how this works
Speaker 1: is I'm going to turn my microphone off, but I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna kick back in my chair and just listen.
Speaker 1: So whatever you feel is left to say, the mic
Speaker 1: is yours, you know, to WoT my anxiety experience, you know,
Speaker 1: looking back at it, not from my hindsight, and you know,
Speaker 1: taking into account all the dysfunctions as going on in
Speaker 1: the world, it thrives and capitalizes and create, you know,
Speaker 1: livabool conditions for other people to benefit from. So now
Speaker 1: the words at a point where they need that in
Speaker 1: order to benefit I thought about this while I was
Speaker 1: in prison. No crown, no cops, no officers, no facility,
Speaker 1: all the different contracts that's connected to that. It's tons
Speaker 1: and tons of family that will become impoverished if there
Speaker 1: was to remove the element of crime, so capitalizing off
Speaker 1: of it, which is creating prisons. And don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: I learned that also prisons or structure, if a person
Speaker 1: want to change, they can change for the better. But
Speaker 1: the being that the justice system not that it needs
Speaker 1: these things in order to function properly. I think it's
Speaker 1: an abuse of that justice that the measured by wishes
Speaker 1: treats the people who are caught up in these systems.
Speaker 1: Is it's cruel and unusual. They're giving out sentences that's
Speaker 1: impossible for human It only lives up to seventy five
Speaker 1: years to complete triple life two hundred years, three hundred years.
Speaker 1: It shows that the value that people have been told
Speaker 1: you Lorso justice needs to become more sensitive to that
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day of the justice
Speaker 1: system is there to correct and fix people and put
Speaker 1: them back in the position of function in a way
Speaker 1: that they like. Then they shouldn't be so terminal, they
Speaker 1: shouldn't be so extreme. They shouldn't establish means on which
Speaker 1: this goal of correction becomes impossible. Bad is always gonna be,
Speaker 1: but the extreme to rich bad is punished. That right then,
Speaker 1: is something that the justice system needs to correct. And
Speaker 1: the reason why I believe ultimately they will fall in
Speaker 1: shot because when it comes to the truth, they are
Speaker 1: not embracing that truth and it trickles all the way
Speaker 1: down to the criminals, you know. So the issue is
Speaker 1: the truth. We have to learn how to overall embrace
Speaker 1: the significance and the importance of truth, because if we
Speaker 1: ultimately lose that, man, then the people at the bottom
Speaker 1: is no different from the people at the top. And
Speaker 1: if that's the case, then I don't know what to
Speaker 1: say about that. Hopefully someone would hear. Hopefully someone would
Speaker 1: be sensitive enough to acknowledge the truth of these things
Speaker 1: and make the change it's necessary. That's my hope. Thank
Speaker 1: you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank
Speaker 1: our production team Connor Hall, Justin Golden, Jeff Clyburne, and
Speaker 1: Kevin Wardis with research by Lila Robinson. The music in
Speaker 1: this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer
Speaker 1: Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on
Speaker 1: Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good.
Speaker 1: On all three platforms, you can also follow me on
Speaker 1: both TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason flop ronvul Conviction
Speaker 1: is the production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association
Speaker 1: with Signal Company Number one